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Deals with paper instead of going on television all the time. but what we've seen, what you just played in that clip is that the president's, you know, legal defense all along has really just been a p.r. strategy. it's been all about messaging, undermining mueller, trying to convince his supporters and anyone else who is listening that he has done nothing wrong without really delving into the nuances and the details of what the actual law is, what the actual circumstances that are under review might be and offering this sort of blanket no collusion, no collusion defense that the president's be...

Investigation, and look at things like uranium one. look at things like the fisa abused we saw in chairman devin nunes' memo. some of the very same people are involved in the mueller probe now. i asked jim jordan, are you suggesting here that the mueller probe is fatally flawed because of what you are seeing now in this ig report? he said i'm not saying that. but he did identify that there may have been a third individual, another person that's mentioned in this inspector general report who's been involved not in the clinton e-mail investigation, as well as the mueller probe, and that there ne...

We should also note the investigation is being led by robert mueller. a registered republican first appointed fbi director by republican george w. bush. and the investigation is overseen by the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein a republican appointed to that job by president trump, and also the fbi director is christopher ray who has given money to republicans, a registered republican, appointed by president trump. joining me to unpack this conspiracy-minded president is judi haberman. -- maggie haberman. the mueller probe has resulted in 75 criminal charges. 22 people and companies charg...

Republicans, so important to the president, so important to the white house? because it is a way of undermining mueller's credibility, trying to portray mueller and everyone associated with the investigation as bias and out to get trump and having something to hide. you'll start to see the president invoking the memo in this context. if he's asked about why he might have he luck answer the to talk to mueller on mueller's terms, he'll say it's not fair. it's not only level. i don't think the middle of the country is buying that. the left isn't buying it. i think trump's base is loving that argu...

Privileged leak out tonight. >> michael crowley, frank makes a very good point, a series of them. in a political sense, can the president ever -- this is by the way why bill kristol compares this to the o.j. trial and efforts to get to the jury pool. we're all the jury pool if you go by frank's argument. can the president politically afford to say, no, i'm not going to sit down and talk about this case? >> i think it's possible he can, brian. this is where this storyline merges with the storyline around this memo and why is the nunes memo so important to republicans, so important to the presid...