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Because there is a concerted effort by mostly conservative lawyers out there, not all conservatives, but mostly to try to rein in the legal protections that "new york times" v. sullivan gives to make these mistakes. >> giving the press a wide way to cover public figures, even getting it wrong without being able to sue and win. >> the first amendment allows you to make mistakes, right? because the idea is that you -- the news organizations who make mistakes honestly shouldn't be litigated out of existence and that is something i think that a lot of conservatives would like to change. they want ...

Darn close. it is a close call in that sense. it is a trial. anything can happen. but if you are just playing the odds, "the new york times" should be safe. however, it could potentially really damage if it goes up to the supreme court, and i do think this is a court that would take on this issue and would take on "new york times" v. sullivan. if you had asked me that two years ago i would say, no, right leaning justices are the opposite of activist justices. i no longer think that. i think it is a case they would be interested in taking if they had the opportunity. >> josh, let's talk about t...

Any time the court is asked to revisit a precedent, there are criteria that the court uses to decide whether or not to overrule a precedent. "new york times" vs. sullivan is a precedent, and stare decisis is very important. the principle that courts -- that the supreme court should maintain its precedents for predictability and stability in the law. if the court is asked to revisit a precedent, its criteria, what it looks at, are whether the precedent is wrong and, in fact, egregiously wrong, the court has said, whether there's been reliance on that precedent, whether the -- there are other ca...

The supreme court has held as much, and that was the basis for the court's determinations in protecting the press from liability in "new york times" vs. sullivan and its progeny. >> okay. as you know, that ruling was unanimous ruling in support of the first amendment, and the court held that when newspapers report on public officials, they're only liable for untrue statements that are published with knowledge or reckless disregard for whether the statement was false. the court in sullivan based its decision on our country's, quote, profound national commitment to the principle that debate on p...

"new york times" v. sullivan 1964 case. we have recently witnessed, as you know, unprecedented attacks on journalists and journalism, whether it's violence overseas, recently losing, sadly, members of the press just in the last month in ukraine, or threats and intimidation at home. this is very concerning to me, given the important role of the first amendment. my dad was a newspaper reporter, so the issues hit home for me. can you talk about your view of the role of journalists in our democracy? >> thank you, senator. journalists, freedom of the press is protected by the first amendment. it is...