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>> well, that's sort of what i'm saying. >> he would basically -- they would be able to do that. >> see, my sense, and i'd be interested to know what max thinks, my sense is the base is more with donald trump than it is with fox news. and fox news has hitched their wagon to donald trump. but like i said, when he was running originally, he was not the fox news candidate. >> yes. >> and that's why he attacked them relentlessly. eventually people who used to be on fox are no longer there. >> right. >> or if they're still working there, you hardly ever see them. the whole entire network became the...

On fox are no longer there. >> right. >> or if they're still working there, you hardly ever see them. the whole entire network became the trump network because of donald trump. so why does he now feel like they're in charge of him? i really can't follow the reasoning. >> max, do you agree with that? >> this would be a fascinating experiment. what it points to is the power that rupert murdoch potentially has, because we don't know what would happen. what if fox news actually turned on donald trump? this would be like king kong versus godzilla. we don't know who would win that fight. i think kir...

The buzzfeed story, let's assume it is true, you still have to lay out the evidence. we might be there in six months, but we're not there right now. >> and who leads that effort given the shutdown, hard to imagine mitch mcconnell, mitt romney now a senator, ben sasse, a few others, but very few. tim, great to have you here. and speaking of that record long shutdown, it is now king kong versus godzilla, that is how one adviser describes the shutdown battle. the president denying nancy pelosi a military plane for her trip to the warzone in afghanistan. the move coming just before her delegatio...