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We're better thanning th we're learning kurt volker plans to testify on thursday. volker is one of the state department officials who is mentioned in the whistleblower complaint. he resigned on friday as the envoy to ukraine. our panel is back. it is like a house of cards just falling in on itself right now. >> fast. but it is a different house this time versus mueller. because these are people like volker who are from the outside who are career civil servants who have for the most part very good reputations and they are not going to give it up for the president. they will not put their profes...

That were on paper. the difference is what the american people heard -- the american people heard is attorney general barr saying something different. i think what he was saying, let me clarify. this is what i said. by the way, i'm stepping down. i don't feel that democrats -- >> now we can impeach. >> the democrats have been talking about impeachment for months. >> let's talk about what barr said versus mueller. i agree. very little news that came out. one piece of news is mueller saying the way that barr handled the report was done in good faith. there's other foe controversy that mueller sa...

The doj policy one, what was found with respect to obstruction of justice was a place where there was daylight. was this a punt to congress? the last one was, was there no evidence of conspiracy or was there insufficient evidence of conspiracy. >> let me stop you there. we have that sound bite. i want to play it so folks know what we're talking about. let's see if we can pull that up in the control room there. bar talking about evidence of a trump campaign collusion versus mueller saying insufficient fisht evidence. let's play it as soon as we can here. >> there was no evidence of the trump ca...

Conclusion in the book about mueller having drafted an indictment ready to go, ready to indict the president. i am concerned because he's a doj employee, he may have to vet with barr what he's about to say, and i would love to be a fly on the wall in a meeting like that, where it's barr versus mueller. my money is always on mueller when it comes to truth and accuracy and decency. but i think you're absolutely right, steph, barr could put his fingerprint so to speak on whatever statement it is mueller is about to make. >> ken, do we know if this replaces any sort of hearing? last week jerry nad...

To send a target letter to don junior and the acting ag says no, you're not. now we have the beginning of that crisis which we have known has been coming. it's coming. when he says no, what does mueller do, go ahead and do it? then he could be fired for good cause? and then what does congress do? all of this is coming to a head. we have this epic battle that is, on some level, the trump versus mueller, but on the big battle is really is the president above the law? and we thought we had that resolved after nixon and we have not. that is coming to this country in the next six months and we have...