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Trump was far to the right. that all of his policies were being attacked as too far to the right and not doing enough. did you see that? there's certainly that baked in. and the democratic party has shifted in some ways even during the last several years. >> you think that's a good thing? >> well, i think that right now the party's at a point we're trying to figure out what the core ideas of the party should be and the case we're going to make to the american people. i think that's productive and healthy. i have my own ideas that should be front and center. it's not just me. the entire party i...

>> i asked the vice president point blank did he use his power to stop those deportations. he went around the question. >> you can't have it both ways. you invoke president obama more than anybody in this campaign. you can't do it when it's convenient and then dodge it when it's not. >> your plan by contrast leaves out almost 10 million americans. so i think that you should really think about what you're saying. >> mr. vice president, it looks like one of us have learned the lessons of the past and one of us hasn't. >> back with us to talk about all of this we have bakari sellers, andrew gillu...

Do you think that point is being missed in the current discussion? >> well, it's just the mechanics of the process. one of the things i joke about and it's true, you notice that everyone always attacks someone above them in the polls. this is the mechanics. well, you know, you need to boost your profile. you're going to have to take a shot at one of the front runners. and so that's why we have this dynamic that encourages us to tear down the front runners. and it's not going to help us beat donald trump in 2020. >> do you think the debate last night because there was a lot of those cross attac...

Barack obama, he tends to use barack obama to deflect from his own record. last night what you saw was he got caught in between. so you can't use barack obama to defend your record and then disassociate with him on tpp and disassociate with him on deportations. either -- you have to be more nuanced and more critical. joe biden had issue with that. i do want to say, though, and from the viewership point and perspective, because sometimes we get inundated. barack obama still has a 95% approval rating amongst democrats in this country. so you have to be very caution. because even when those indiv...