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Tactic to do that, that's great. there's great legislation right now in congress from marcia fudge in the house and senator chris murphy in the senate that would allow federal investment and grant money to go towards school diversification efforts. so we're not talking about, you know, some sort of broad thing that we're talking about, what we're talking about is making sure that right now in this environment of the modern era that schools have the resources they need to diversify and ensure that kids have the best opportunity to get a good education. >> so to be clear, then, are you drawing a...

Here. ben, if you were the biden campaign and you had a scale of -- this is the own john mcloughlin style -- ten is absolute panic, where are you right now? >> i'd be at an 8 looking at these numbers. we talked about this debate. i was frankly pretty shocked by how poorly he performed, not just the answers on busing and his position in the 1970s but cutting himself off in the midst of answers, not looking particularly on top of things throughout the course of that debate. and i talked to a lot of his supporters afterwards who were shocked by how bad he did. i thought he would go down, i did no...

Across the country, folks tend to have opinion of them. but what we're seeing now is people like kamala harris introducing herself to voters for the first time. and on that stage that's exactly what she did. >> the issue behind that exchange she had with the former vice president on stage, it was busing, and it brought back the politics of the 1970s, the 1980s in a lot of ways. and one of the questions that emerged from that is, is kamala harris calling for a return to the busing that we saw in the '70s and '80s. as she told my colleague vaughn hillyard yesterday, she does support busing. it s...

Busing. what we were dealing with at the time in the '60s and '70s was localities were roelting against it. >> berkeley, california, was i think the first city -- >> yeah. >> but the story she told -- i guess i'm asking was that the model she has in mind for the country? >> you can't take a snapshot in time and apply it to the modern era. everything changes over the course of time. and right now there are new approaches we have to take. busing can be a part of that solution. but i think what's important to remember here, and i think i saw a statistic as this debate raged on that only 2% of sch...

That she gets into. >> when i was trying to figure out, zerlina, in terms of assessing the politics was this voluntary-involuntary question. was this about rewarding berkeley. is it across district lines. are you saying here's an urban school district that's predominantly minority, it's predominantly low-income. so to achieve the kind of balance that's needed here, we are going to go across district lines into the suburbs. do you have a sense what she's calling for here? >> i think what she was doing was talking about something that happened in the past in her own experience to make it clear t...