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Backlogged facilities. is this the answer, pete? >> i know it's part of it. i really do. i was outside the baltimore v.a. a couple of days ago talking to veterans going in and out. they're saying why am i waiting to get a colonoscopy or something else at a v.a. hospital when i can get it somewhere else? i think the key question is choice. why shouldn't we give the veterans a choice which inserts competition. it recommends we change the game. >> which brings up the idea of vouchers. john mccain is on the fight as well. he said let's issue vouchers so they can get the help they need whenever the...

Do you think that would solve things? >> well, essentially, my organization did ask for his resignation. but we're at a point now where the president has made it clear he wants to see the results of these investigations. so this is where we're at now. let's get this fixed. let's hold the executives accountable. we've got veterans waiting four months with gang green, heart disease, brain tumors. in albuquerque, new mexico, 19 different facilities have been shown to have these scandals with wait times. the va policy is you have to have 14 days to get signed up for an appointment. the executives ...

Method of determining whether they are providing patients timely access to care. they can't do it. no matter how much money they have. >> paul, i think the short term fix -- as we said, the long-term fix is probably moving away from the v.a. type system all together. but the short-term fix, i think, is giving these veterans access to civilian hospitals and doctors. at no additional cost. that's what they need. the only people wallowing on these wait lists are poor veterans who can't afford private insurance. and so that's what we can do in the short run, give them a voucher and access to same ...

In fact sounds very much like a very specific recommendation directly from the president for something to do right away, doesn't it? >> let's not wait for the report retrospectively to reach out immediately to veterans who are currently waiting for appointments. >> is that happening? what does that mean the president said that? we've not been able to get any details from the white house or from veterans affairs since the president read those remarks as to whether or not those remarks mean there is some short-term immediate outreach going on to the veterans most affected here. to the people who...

This is back in 2010, specifically found that they were having two lists, one bogus, one that was real. flash forward to may of 2012. the senate holds a hearing, the senate holds a hearing on the problematic, long, ridiculously long waits for care at va facilities. listen to this witness. >> like many va medical centers, the over riding objective at our facility from top management down was to meet our numbers, meaning, to meet our performance measures. the golfs to see as many veterans as possible but not necessarily to provide the treatment needed. >> patty murray followed thaup hearing with...