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Amy pope. amy under former president barack obama but now an associate with chatham house. joining us at this hour. glad to have you. >> thank you. >> so, from a big picture perspective, you have a u.s. president who seemed to be actually painted into a corner to act on this strike and risk war. or not to act, and signal to adversaries that the u.s. will blink. what do you make of this suggestion that president trump took this approach to effectively have it both ways and come off a hero for calling it off? >> it's hard to see these actions as heroic. what they've done is they've escalated ten...

And we are back with kevin rudd in beijing, michael pillsbury in washington and rona furuga here in new york. i wanted to ask you, kevin, what the chinese reaction to the trump strategy has been. donald trump is approaching it from the america first strategy, a kind of nationalist strategy, there's a lot of patriotic support for him among his base. the chinese are reacting it seems to me from their nationalist point of view. don't tread on me nationalism, has it not? >> i think there's often an assumption in the u.s. that it's just america that's going to deal with its domestic politics

Get china's attention. as president trump joked, president obama let them get away with murder. he has some pressure from his own democrats from the left. bernie wants to have currency manipulation label for china. several senators wrote wrote a letter to president trump. chuck schumer the senate leader, did a tweet chastising president trump for not raising the tariffs that day to 25%. we have a complicated political situation here, and in many ways, kevin -- >> what michael described as the complicated political situation in the united states, which is keep i keeping president truchld on a t...

Honoring the terms of the agreement, the united states can unilaterally impose punitive tariffs against china. also in the same agreement, requiring that china would under no circumstances then retaliate. all i'd say in response to that is, if the united states is in a trade negotiation with me, as the prime minister of australia, i would find that unacceptable. and i'm not surprised the chinese find it unacceptable. i think there's a way through these negotiations, but the united states has to think through its own position on this as well. >> what's striking to me looking at it from the u.s....

The long view, the chinese have been stealing our intellectual property. it seems like there is nationalism at play here that is supporting president trump's position. >> i think that's absolutely right, it's interesting, because of the ten states that are most effective, eight of them voted for trump. as you point out, farmers are with him, it's interesting, i spent some time looking at the supply chain in the carolinas, i spoke to a cotton farmer who calculated down to the penny what it was costing him. he was still with the president. he pointed out as did many small businesses, that look, ...