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Subject of the investigation. and very seldom is that person the president of the united states. lay out the stakes, remind us of the stakes. >> well, you hit the nail on the head, brian. because there are -- those two things make this very high stakes for the president. because he is the subject, at least, of this investigation, that's clear, which means he has some risk. if he goes in there and he either lies, certainly, then he could be facing perjury or false statement charges. even if he doesn't lie, if he tells the truth, the question is, will mueller accept what he's telling? will it fi...

Distinguished fellow and criminal justice at the pace university school of law. i'd like to begin with you, mimi, and that is it. people talk to feds, are interviewed by feds every day. interviews completed, they go on their way. often that person isn't the subject of the investigation. and very seldom is that person the president of the united states. lay out the stakes, remind us of the stakes. >> well, you hit the nail on the head, brian. because there are -- those two things make this very high stakes for the president. because he is the subject, at least, of this investigation, that's cle...

They are i think contract employees. they're ubiquitous in the west wing. that would match the description of this, which would also back up the contemporaneous notes of jim comey known for being an assiduous notetaker, correct? >> right. i mean, if there really is a transcription of that conversation, then i think that the mueller team needs to get ahold of that. whether schiff and his team do too, hopefully they'll be able to make something of it, i suppose. really, i'm concerned about the mueller team getting that. there aren't going to be recordings, i think. any transcription would be vit...

Worked for pretty ba lawyer. jennifer rogers, columbia law school center, and mimi wilkin, distinguished fellow and criminal justice at the pace university school of law. i'd like to begin with you, mimi, and that is it. people talk to feds, are interviewed by feds every day. interviews completed, they go on their way. often that person isn't the subject of the investigation. and very seldom is that person the president of the united states. lay out the stakes, remind us of the stakes. >> well, you hit the nail on the head, brian. because there are -- those two things make this very high stake...

Third party u.s. presidential candidate like jill stein. you were making that point, mie mieke. >> i think it's difficult in our system the way the electoral college works to have people diverted off the two-party system. >> it kills the mandate for the winner. it's diffused. ken dilanian, thank you and chuck rosenburg, mieke eoyang and john cipher. >> today's news is like the moment barack obama produced his full length birth certificate. now that will mueller has indicted 13 defendants, trump can no longer dismiss it as fake news or a hoax. it's real, mr. trump. it happened. mueller thinks h...