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Investigate biden. >> of course i did. >> you just said you didn't. >> and with ukraine he is pedaling whield conspiracy theories. >> it was ukrainian collusion with hillary clinton. and that joe biden family is -- it's written. it's all over the internet. >> randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> and joining me now to kuz, discuss, john dean. rudy giuliani seems set on trying to show the world that he was not doing this alone and acting on the behest of the state department. he's showing text messages from the individuals at the state department. that wouldn't absolve him of any allegation of wrong do...

Dozens of rambling interviews that are quick to go off the rails. >> shutup, moron. you don't know what you're talking about. >> sometimes contradicting himself within seconds. >> did you ask the ukraine to investigate joe biden? >> no. >> so you did ask ukraine to investigate biden. >> of course i did. >> you just said you didn't. >> and with ukraine he is pedaling whield conspiracy theories. >> it was ukrainian collusion with hillary clinton. and that joe biden family is -- it's written. it's all over the internet. >> randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> and joining me now to discuss, former nixon ...

The knowledge we see now in the "new york times" reporting, it's problematic -- >> but none of that was in the story. >> the things coming out -- >> we cannot trust the things coming out of the white house. we heard the president say he never thought about doing it. >> we don't know what went into the counsel's interview and lied about this. we don't know that. we do know that the special counsel learned about these efforts of the president from staffers in interviews. jack, again, let's end where we began. the president wamtnted to fire bob mueller because he was looking into obstruction ever...

Advice which the president was smart enough to take. >> but jack, that wouldn't absolve the president if he then took the step of ordering his dismissal. >> if he did it and it was shown that by doing so he was on obstruction on the investigation, because really, obstruction is a lot more about witness tampering and changing evidence and withholding evidence. >> corrupt intent, that he was trying to do something to stop the administration of justice with corrupt intent. >> but rejecting the advice of of markas sow -- markasle wits. >> we do not know that is in fact what happened, congressman. ...