Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

Members tried to throw out their speaker, and it didnt work then. 113 years later for the very first time members tried to throw out their speaker, but this time, this time, anderson and kaitlan, they succeeded. Yeah. And jake and anderson, of course Kevin Mccarthy only serving for 269 days. His speakership undone by eight Rebel Republicans led by congressman matt gaetz of florida. Using that rule to force him out that mccarthy himself agreed to, of course, as a condition to get the job as House Speaker. Now a vote, at least an election is expected next week, a week from now, a week from tomorrow night. The jockeying for the position, though, is already under way tonight and cnns Melanie Zanona is covering it all at the capitol. Melanie, whats the latest we just heard from Kevin Mccarthy saying hes not going to try to run for speaker again . Who is going to enter this race . Reporter kaitlan, that is the question right now, and weve heard from a number of republicans who say there are a couple names floating around, and that includes Steve Scalise. He is the number two republican, the House Majority leader. He is seen as the likely next in line, the heir apparent. And i am told that he has been Calling Members tonight, his team has also been Calling Members, and that he is already lining up supporters. One of those members who heard from him tonight said hes getting a good amount of support already. So just to give you a sense of how quickly things are moving here. But ill tell you, there are some other names in the mix as well. Im told there are some members who have been encouraging jim jordan to run. He is a conservative. He was a cofounder of the freedom caucus. But hes also become a Kevinmark Karthy ally. He is the chairman of the judiciary committee. And he is someone whos also seen as a potential contender here. Now, its unclear if he would run. He was asked by our manu raju earlier whether he would be open to doing so and he said its up to the conference. So clearly leaving it open, though its unclear whether he would mount a challenge to Steve Scalise. Were hearing some other names as well. Kevin hern, hes the head of the republican study committee, which is the largest conservative caucus in the house. But at this point, kaitlan, it looks like Steve Scalise is making moves to become the next speaker. They have until next week. Theres going to be a Candidate Forum on tuesday for any speaker candidates to try to make their pitch. And then they will move to try to elect a speaker on wednesday. So again, things moving quickly. But as of right now the house is paralyzed and they cannot conduct any rother Business Untl they elect a new speaker. Theyre moving quickly but not necessarily that quickly if theyre going to wait over a week before they hold that election. Given they have such a time crunch with the time to fund the government when this temporary bill they just passed runs out, is there a sense of why they are waiting this period of time to pick a new speaker . Reporter well, listen, they are in such a period of uncertainty and they just didnt want to start ramming an election down the republicans throats again. They wanted to give some time, especially now that Kevin Mccarthy has stepped aside, it is really a whole new ball game, unlike in january where he was in the race for round after round. No one else was willing to step up to the plate. But someone like Steve Scalise, for example, has long been waiting in the wings. He never wanted to challenge Kevin Mccarthy outright. But now that hes out of the picture hes clearly making his moves. But ill tell you back to your earlier point about government funding, that was a concern raised by a lot of republican members today about if they were to go forward with the motion to vacate and potentially oust Kevin Mccarthy as speaker, which they did, that it was going to delay their appropriations process. The same appropriations process, we should point out, that matt gaetz had been fighting for. So now all of that is delayed. They were supposed to be marking up bills this week and next week, trying to move toward that November 17th deadline. Thats going to be a lot harder. And i can tell you whoever is going to be the next speaker is immediately going to have to deal with that next challenge. And the question becomes what do they do . Do they have to pass a shortterm stopgap bill to keep the government open and avoid a shutdown, the very thing that Kevin Mccarthy was punished for . A lot of questions here tonight in the capitol, kaitlan. Not exactly an appealing job, melanie. Keep us updated on whos in line for that race. Im joined by republican congressman tim burchett of tennessee, one of the eight republicans who voted against Kevin Mccarthy who we spoke to last night. First i want to get you to respond to something we just heard from former speaker Kevin Mccarthy, who was saying essentially that the eight of you who voted to oust him are not real conservatives. Whats your response to that . Well, thats id say hes bitter and ill take it at that. My concern all along has been that we took six weeks off, as you know, in august and september. We take in 5 trillion a year. We spend 7 trillion. We pass continued resolution after continued resolution. And the reason they do that is so we dont have a shot at it. Were required really by law to do a couple of things. Pass a budget and the 12 appropriations bills. Yet they do a continuation, continued resolution, to hide a lot of things in my opinion. Grease their Lobbyist Buddies and the powerful stay in power. And they all say this is a terrible thing and then they say were going to pass this continuing resolution so we wont have to pass another so when he says youre not looking to be productive you think hes wrong . Hes absolutely wrong. I want a budget. Why are they afraid of a budget . Jody arrington out of texas is an excellent chairman of the budget committee. I was on the budget committee. I asked to be taken off because weve never done any budgets. Now jody gets on, he brings a budget, they bring it before conferencee gets his ten minutes, they gave him a little complimentary golf clap and send him on his way. But were required to pass a budget. Every state in this great union passes a budget. I come from tennessee where id say your family has a budget, mine does, church, synagogue, your charity, your business, we have a budget. But this place back here doesnt have a budget. Did you bridng this up it sounds like you had quite a testy phone call with the speaker after you and i spoke last night and you said you were praying about the decision. You say he basically was mocking you for saying you were being thoughtful about it. He belittled what i said. And i thought ill listen to what he said and i thought to myself maybe hell change my mind. And then when his opening salvo i guess was that i said i think the lord gave me my answer right then, honestly, because i dont mocking god to me crosses the line. And i thought it showed his character. But thats over. Hes out. And were looking ahead to a new speaker. And of course that election is now not going to happen for over another week. Are you happy that lawmakers are leaving town without electing a new speaker . Heck, no. I was angry. Thats another reason i was angry at the speaker before, because we left town when we should have been working. We took a long weekend till a tuesday. I realized there was a jewish there was a jewish holiday which i think we ought to honor. Yet we could have come back, we could have worked up to that point, and we chose not to. And again, we passed a continued resolution for 45 days. Here it is day 42 and were not we havent addressed it up to this point. We come in late, we leave early. The rest of americas not. I can guarantee you theyre working. Thats going to be the challenge for the next House Speaker. Were hearing names that people like Steve Scalise, jim jordan, kevin hearn. Do you like any of those . Have you heard i love them. Theyre all great. Have you heard from them tonight . No, i have not. But actually, ive been on the media trail pretty hot and heavy. I think Elise Stefanik could be one. Maybe mark green out of tennessee. Theres a lot of people that we have a very deep bench. I dont think thats going to be the problem. And i think once we elect this person i think we can probably do it in the first round, and i think also people will rally around them and youll see just like when you put a new quarterback in in the second half after youve been getting beat up on a little bit you start taking command. Yeah, weve seen that at alabama a lot this season. When it comes to what is that a shot over the bow of being a tennessee boy . Yall play football in alabama . Im trying to well get back to that in a moment. But when it comes to what the rules for the next House Speaker actually look like, will you insist on keeping that onevote motion to vacate for whoevers the next House Speaker . You know, i dont know. Ive thought about that a lot. But i havent really reasoned that out in my mind. I dont know that its important. I think it served its purpose. And honestly, i dont know that it serves the purpose it once did. But you know, it was on the books for years. I think since maybe the 20s. Until Speaker Pelosi had taken it out. But it sounds like youre okay with it staying. Yeah, i wouldnt mind. I voted for those rules. I thought that was i thought it was i awise decision, and i think it served us well. I think it holds them accountable to the people. And i dont have a problem with accountability, which is something this town lacks a lot of. And transparency. Congressman tim burchett, thank you for coming over here to join us tonight. Jake of course, a lot of questions here about what that is going to look like going forward. A little fist bump there. Even though he is a tennessee guy, we dont play them until the end of the month. Its nice to see a little crossborder action there. Thanks, kaitlan. Even though this is playing out as a fight among House Republicans, obviously the interest in having a functioning House Of Representatives is bipartisan. Its frankly nonpartisan. And obviously, it does include everyone including the democrats in the Executive Branch and cnns Kayla Tausche is at the white house for us. Kayla, what is the reaction at the white house this evening . There is not a speaker of the house. Reporter well, jake, the white house is trying to project an image of calm and to strike a contrast with the chaos on capitol hill. And just this evening the administration releasing a statement urging House Republicans to elect a speaker quickly so that both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue can get back to the business of governing. But aides tell me that President Biden is going to aim to strike a tone of business as usual throughout the rest of the week. Tomorrow he has a policyfocused speech on student loans, and today in messaging blasts that the white house has put out for many weeks, in todays they announced a split screen of President Biden touting his negotiations for lower drug prices, contrasted with republicans trying to repeal the legislation that authorizes the president to do that. Not highlighting the motion to vacate or any of the drama that was happening on capitol hill. But thats the white house trying to stay above the fray. The Democratic National committee posting on Social Media Platform X has reacted somewhat with glee, calling the gop a threering circus and posting movie memes. And in some of those same splitscreen images taking their own liberties and pointing out that chaos for that motion to vacate. Well, it was chaotic. And for some reason, a reason that eludes my understanding, the republicans have decided to take a weeklong break before picking their next leader, although they could be doing it right now. Presumably. Im not the only one asking this question. Is there and i realize that even if you know the answer to this the democrats in the building behind you might not want the answer public. But is there a particular republican in the House Of Representatives that the white house might think would be the easiest to deal with in terms of lets think of two pressing issues, ukraine aid and avoiding another Government Shutdown, which is coming down in just like 43 days . Reporter well, certainly having a week off is not going to help the effort to avoid a Government Shutdown by any stretch of the imagination. And securing more aid for ukraine would be seen as the administrations first priority. Just today the administration suggested once again that it was assured by House Leadership and the chairs of the Relevant National security committees in the house that there would be support for that aid. But jake, when you look at their Voting Records, which is one of the things that the white house points to often, you sort of have a spectrum of support and a pretty wide range if that among the names that have been floated so far. Tom emmer, based on his Voting Record and his public statements so far, would be seen as the staunchest supporter for ukraine aid. Then you have Steve Scalise, the number two republican, who would be somewhat in the middle. Hes made some neutral statements recently. And its unclear whether when john kirby, the nsc spokesman, was saying there was support among House Leadership, whether he was referencing Steve Scalise as part of that bucket. And then of course theres hardliners like kevin hearn and jim jordan, who would be seen as antiukraine based on their Voting Records. But betagain, kirby has suggest those are a very vocal few and theyre in the minority and they still believe there would eventually be support. All right. Kayla tausche at the white house. Thanks. Senate Minority Leader Mitch Mcconnell just weighed in. Quoting from his statement, which reads in part, Speaker Mccarthy has my sincere thanks for his service to our nation in what is often a thankful role. The speakers tenure was bookended by historic fights, but as he reminded his colleagues when he took the gavel, our nation is worth fighting for. Minority leader mcconnell from kentucky tonight. Back with the panel. And dana bash, i wonder if there are viewers, voters out there who are thinking to themselves, boy, if i worked for an organization that couldnt get its act together i dont know that i would then immediately be taking a weeklong vacation. That doesnt seem to me to be the response that every other person in the rest of the world would immediately be doing. Taking a week off. Good job, everybody. You know, we just did the first ever motion to vacate. We no longer have a speaker of the house. Lets all go to barbados. I dont think theyre going to barbados, although that does sound really nice right about now. Theyre taking a week off. Well, theyre taking a week to pick a new speaker. I dont know the answer. Do they not know each other . They need to get acquainted . Were all in New Territory about whether or not committees are going to happen and organize tomorrow. They adjourned. No committees tomorrow. I think they all they all went home. The house adjourned. All right. So i dont know that its a vacation. But it is i think the point youre making and what i have been wondering is why werent they ready for this . I mean, this is everybodys like oh my gosh, its shocking, its no. We knew starting on sunday when matt gaetz told you that he was going to make a motion to vacate that it was very likely that this would happen. Very likely. So why wasnt there a backup . Why wasnt there why werent there already discussions about who would be the person to go in . I think the answer is because the people who might want to be speaker didnt want to get out ahead of Kevin Mccarthy because that would look bad. And it would probably sink them with the very people that they need. Im sort of answering my own question. But youre right. It doesnt necessarily take an entire week to do it. You saw and you mentioned the fervor with which Patrick Mchenry hit that gavel down. I thought he was going to sprain his wrist. And to me looking at it, hes trying to get everybody hes trying to lower the temperature, get everybody to calm down. My experience on capitol hill is that i dont know if you agree with me. And audie, we covered the hill together as well. When you send people home, it stirs people up rather than keeping people in town sometimes. It has the opposite effect. Well, one, youre sending them back to their constituents, who are going to call offices. Matt gaetz included. Two, shock and awe. These people are shocked. As much as they shouldnt be, it was very clear that they thought they were calling some sort of bluff and that did not happen. And they all looked like they couldnt believe it. And that is just weird. You know, just leek one of those weird moments on the hill that is unexpected. I think one thing id like to say is that this is not Kevin Mccarthys problem. This is our problem as a country because in 40something days we will be discussing the budget all over again, continuing resolution all over again, and whoever speaker will have had to have made some sort of concession to be leader that will directly affect that discussion again. So its not like everyone can be like oh, Kevin Mccarthys gone, i guess this thing is solved. No, they really have to figure out how to reconstitute themselves. I mean, this is a big discussion not only about oh, whos the person you like to be the next speaker. They have to figure out how they change the rules, as mccarthy said, change the rule. Do they . Well, theres that one rule. Theres the one rule about the motion to vacate. Its a rule he acquiesced to. To get the speakers gavel. Well, if you want to be speaker next time, do you want that rule . I dont think you i dont think you do. Then the question is of course on substance. What do you do about ukraine . Which has been raised here. And what do you do about the recalcitrant eight people . What are they going to demand . So it is really i mean, its reconstituting the party in the House Of Representatives but its also taking a look at the Republican Party writ large here. While a president ial campaign is playing out with donald trump as the dominant exactly. Republican frontrunner while donald trump is in court. While donald trump is in court. And rather silent on this issue today. I would imagine hes not going to be so silent once all the candidates for speaker come out. And he may want to inject himself into this going forward. You think . Remember, he is the leader of this party. You were right to note, hes leading it from courtrooms and leading it under indictment. But he is the leader of this party and i know were focused today on congress but i dont think we can disconnect that theres a backdrop of a republican president ial nomination race that is under way as well here. And you know he was reprimanded by the judge today for posting things on social media that were false smears about the judges clerk. Just to give you a little update. That of course is not the number one story because what we have is the historic removal of the speaker of the house. Though a significant story no doubt. And the removal of the house i agree, people were a little more shocked i think today. Oh, this is actually happening. One person not shocked, it seems to me, was Kevin Mccarthy. I think over the weekend as soon as he made the decision that he saw no path to keep the government open without making a deal with democrats, he understood he sealed his fate and i dont think he was surprised at all. So he tweeted yesterday literally 24 hours ago bring it on, knowing that they were going to bring it and he was going to lose . Thats very happy warrior vibes. Like thats a thing you would do. Gaetz told you he was going to bring it. But you really think he said bring it on knowing he was bring it on with bravado and enter the day in a position of trying to fight. Knowing he was going to lose . I think he was well aware he was it was a put me out of my misery situation at that point. Gaetz has said he talked to donald trump, although he hasnt said what donald trump said to him. We dont know if mccarthy talked to donald trump and what hand he played in all of this. And as you were talking about, what is he going to do in the future . Will he endorse someone . Because remember, this was my kevin, as he used to call him. Im going to do something ive never done before and Say Something nice about the new England Patriots. Which is the new England Patriots got shellacked by the cowboys 383. And ill tell you something that the new England Patriots are not doing after that shellacking. Theyre not taking a week off. Thats what theyre not doing. Can i be devils advocate for a second . You keep calling it a week off. They literally need to figure out where the exits are. They need to figure out people have to start making phone calls. People have to start counting votes. Because if theres one thing thats clear, they have not been able to do for many, many months is count votes and figure out when they have support and when they dont have support. Oh, my sweet naive friend. Oh, my goodness. You dont think that jim jordan has been secretly talking i think if theyre ready they would have done it already. I think its that simple. Patriots fans, i hope you enjoyed that. Were going to take a quick break. Coming up next, how this is being received in congressman mccarthys district in california. Hes still their congressman. Hes still their congressman. Later, more on that judge telling donald trump to keep quiet. Its not cool to smear my clerk. Im in charge of the trial here. Well tell you why and what happens if trump doesnt, which is where my money is. Stay with us. Welcome back. Before the break Audie Cornish talked about lawmakers going back to their districts before coming back next week to choose a new House Speaker. Cnns kyung lah is in Kevin Mccarthys district in bakersfield, california. What were some of the reactions there . Reporter well, anderson, i was actually sitting with one of mccarthys most ardent supporters at the kern county Republican Party, and as that final vote was announced i can tell you that there was extreme disappointment and frankly shes pissed. This is a district that largely has united around Kevin Mccarthy. Hes enormously popular here. In his last election he won by 60 he won 60 of the vote. Thats more than double what the democrat was able to gather. So what we saw throughout the day, we were sitting with people as they were watching all the drama unfold in washington. They were reminded that hes born and bred here, that he is one of them. So there is a lot of concern about what happens next. Not just for the party but what happens to Kevin Mccarthy, what happens here in the district. But we also heard this, that there is a Silver Lining for moderate republicans who hope that some of this rightwing fever may be broken by What Mccarthy is going through. Take a listen. Some of these folks that made this battle today may find trouble when they run next year. In their own party let alone if the democrat convinces the republicans in those areas youve got a member whos crazy, a wack job. And if they convince that, were going to lose seats. But thats the price that these folks are willing to pay. You know, i have to give him some credit for finally standing up for whats good for all of us. Whats the saying in america . E pluribus unum, out of many we are one. And i think the politics of today of all for us, one for all and the other side is just completely evil has got to end. It brings us to too many extremes. Our countrys about compromise and slowly making inch by inch progress. I think matt gaetz trying to burn it all down was very disappointing to me. Reporter now, raimondo there, the last gentleman you heard, he stopped voting for mccarthy last election. He says he will vote for him again if he runs. Anderson . You know, california has the highest number of federal workers after washington, d. C. What are people saying About Mccarthy averting a shutdown over the weekend and the possibility of another shutdown in less than 45 days . Reporter yeah, thats the first thing that they thought about, right . They need this government to function. Here in mccarthys district there are about 14,000 federal employees. Were talking about the faa employees, the people who work at the military bases here, the contract employees. They need the government to be funded. They are worried about being able to pay the bills, to pay the electricity bills. So that is a concern. Theyre looking at the clock. They say they need a speaker of the house, not just for government to function in washington but for them to continue to be paid as federal employees, anderson . All right. Kyung lah, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Kaitlan . Speaking of california, anderson, i am joined now by California Democratic congressman adam schiff and 2024 candidate of course. Congressman, thank you for being here. Does it make sense to you why the house is going to wait until next wednesday to elect or at least try to elect a new House Speaker . Well, it tells me they had no backup plan for what happened today. It certainly apaefrd from mccarthys comments on sunday he wasnt expecting to be voted out. So it doesnt surprise me now that theyre in total disarray. They need time to figure out whats next. Can they unite behind someone or are they going to leave Patrick Mchenry to play speaker pro tem por on a more definite basis . I imagine there were a lot but including you with personally you were kicked off the House Intelligence Committee by Speaker Mccarthy back in january. What was the deciding factor for democrats not to try to help him or save his speakership . Just a complete lack of trust in him. We dont trust him. His own members dont trust him. His word is not worth anything. He gave the president his word over the budget deal and couldnt honor it. He initiated an Impeachment Proceeding without merit in order to buy off the right wing. I think my own censure was designed to do the same thing. All of those sops to the right wing ended up just feeding the beast, and the beast ended up taking him down. But at the end of the day we need someone who can govern, who if they dont have our confidence at least they have the confidence of their own members. There are too many challenges the country are facing to have the house continue to be in chaos. There was reporting that during your closeddoor caucus meeting today you quoted The Big Lebowski while speaking with colleagues and you said you agreed with matt gaetz About Mccarthy. You said gaetz, quote, isnt wrong, hes just an ahole. Is that an accurate quote . It is one of my favorite lines from The Big Lebowski which as applied to matt gaetz at this moment seemed to be on point and the conference certainly thought so. Are there any republicans you think could be a good house leader in your estimation . Obviously, youre a democrat but you think they could lead the house . I think there are. There are a great many republicans ive worked with over the years who were people who were very conservative, we didnt agree on a lot of policy positions, but we also agreed on delivering for california and working together. And others who, you know, like liz cheney and Adam Kinzinger i had Great Respect for because i knew they were people of conviction and if they gave me their word i could trust their word. There are republicans who i think could be trusted with that responsibility where we could fight over policy but at least they could govern and they could which ones . I dont want to identify them. It certainly wouldnt help them within their own conference if i did. But i think there are republicans who could serve the country well. At least they could govern. And that would serve the country well. Even if the policies they would want to bring about are ones i think would ultimately not be in our best interest. What did you make of what you mentioned Patrick Mchenry of North Carolina who is now essentially temporarily filling in. He issued a letter to former Speaker Pelosi tonight asking her to vacate her office, these office thats are in short supply as you know. Shes not here, shes in california. What did you make of that move, as being his first move in taking over this position . Its a bad omen. It seemed like a very petty thing to do. Speaker pelosi is in california to attend the funeral of dianne feinstein. Whos not only a giant in california but also a lifelong dear close friend of Speaker Pelosis. And to do this as what it seems like his first act as the speaker pro tem is to take away one of her offices. That seems very childish. I dont know whether this is a decision he made on his own or one Kevin Mccarthy wanted as a bit of payback. But it doesnt portend well. Nothing can happen in the house until another speaker is elected. I mean, what do you envision the next week looking like . Are you concerned that whoevers the next House Speaker will be constrained when it comes to ukraine funding or what their speakership power actually looks like . I think in theory, actually, we could continue with mchenry in that position. It wouldnt be ideal. But i think theyll arrive on someone who at least can try to fill that role. And i would hope that we can bring up a vote on things like ukraine funding, which enjoy broad bipartisan support. When people say that washington is broken, its because of things like this. The vast majority of americans, the vast majority of democrats and republicans in the House Of Representatives want to see u. S. Aid to ukraine continue. So why dont we do it . Because they wont bring it up for a vote. And why wont they bring it up for a vote . Because a handful of their crazies dont want them to. Well, they shouldnt be running this place. But theyve been running the republican conference for some time. Weve certainly seen the support soften in some of the cnn polls as well. A busy week ahead of you. Maybe not for democrats as much. Well see. Congressman adam schiff, thank you for coming over here tonight. Thank you. Of course coming up why the former president has been noticeably silent today to save the job of a man he often refers to as, quote, my kevin. Kristen holmes will join us next. To duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a built n engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch, its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Trump would go on to call him, quote, my kevin. It is a relationship that trump would lean on after the january 6th attack when mccarthy flipflopped on whether trump bears responsibility for what happened on that horrible day. So where was donald trump today when my kevin could have really used his support in Kristen Holmes is outside Trump Tower In Manhattan and joins us now. Kristen, where was mr. Trump . Why didnt he intervene publicly to help Kevin Mccarthy save his job . He certainly could have swayed some votes, i would think. Reporter well, jake, he obviously could have since we know back in january once trump swooped in in the 11th hour after more than a dozen failed speaker votes on mccarthys part that he was able to convince some of the opposition to mccarthy to change their votes. I mean, this was what he does. And what we are told is theres a multitude of reasons. One is one ally told us that he cant always stick his neck out for mccarthy whenever theres a problem on the hill, particularly given that he has allies on both sides of this issue. He is very close with matt gaetz. And we know he spoke with matt gaetz before he even brought this motion, gaetz, over mccarthy. So there is a lot going on there. The other thing we are told is that he hasnt even really been paying attention. He is fixated on his trial. We know he was going to come for two days. Now hes again going back to trial tomorrow. He is enjoying the media coverage. He is blasting out tweets. Just a few seconds ago he posted on truth social, i was looking to see if it had anything to do with Kevin Mccarthy. And instead it just said change the border or fix the border. Clearly he is not weighing in and he is intentionally not weighing in. He could have swayed some of these votes. He could have helped this, and he did not. Kevin mccarthy, need i remind our viewers, is credited or blamed with resuscitating donald trump after january 6th. It looked as though the Republican Party was going to turn away from donald trump after january 6th, 2021. And then Kevin Mccarthy went down to maralago and did a photo op with him and breathed life back into him. And i mean i guess weve always known that, you know, loyalty is a oneway street with mr. Trump, but i guess that doesnt matter to him at all . Reporter i think if you look at donald trump and what he believes loyalty to be, lets take a look back to about two months ago when mccarthy was on air on cnbc and he was asked if trump was the best candidate in 2024 and he very clearly said he didnt know. He thought that donald trump was strong but he didnt know he was the best candidate in 2024. That was something that trump and his team took a huge amount of issue with. Now, we are also told that Kevin Mccarthy has given a list of excuses to several of trumps allies as to why he hasnt endorsed trump in 2024. Some of it is about fundraising or about the fact that he didnt want to impact certain sections of Republican Voters on the hill. But that has still irked people close to trump. Im even told at some points that people have told trump that they dont like Kevin Mccarthy. But yet trump stood by his side again in the speakers race. So i do believe theres somewhat of loyalty being a twoway street. I think trump did give him some loyalty back in january. And then he is very quick and very fickle, as we know. And i dont think he has really recovered, at least doesnt seem to have recovered since he did since mccarthy said that he was not the strongest candidate in 2024. Yeah, but then he quickly took it back. Anyway, i take your point. Kristen holmes, thanks so much. Anderson . Also joining us the new york timess maggie haberman. Maggie, what do you think about the former president not exactly stepping in to help mccarthy . I think it was clear this was where it was headed, anderson, last week when matt gaetz was threatening a shutdown and donald trump was encouraging a shutdown and had been for days and days and can days. Whether his intention was to give cover to matt gaetz or not, that is what it did. And it gave cover to other people to join matt gaetz in this push against mccarthy. And so that is how we ended up here. Donald trump will also leave as many options open as possible so he never has to foreclose anything and then he can end up on the side of where something is going. That is often how he decides what hes doing. I think he waited to see where mccarthy was. He didnt especially feel like wading in for all of the reasons we just heard. And another one, which is that mccarthy and this trump did raise a lot and frankly this came up more than the endorsement issue. Trump wanted his impeachments expunged from the record. He wanted mccarthy to introduce this and push this. Mccarthy did not do that. Impeachment of biden was less of an issue for biden than his own record. And so you put all of this together and i think it is true that trump had not been especially focused on this in the recent the days leading up to this. I think hes pretty focused on it right now because i think that he sees this as some kind of an activity that he can be talked about in, witness people are talking about him running for speaker, which donald trump has a long history of people running nonorganic drafts for him. This has the same feel. But its not surprising to me. Somebody said to me close to trump last week he doesnt think kevin needs rescuing. And i messaged that person today and said do you still does he still think kevin doesnt need rescuing and i didnt hear back. But he decided he was not going to invest capital in this, and i think he saw where this was headed. And mccarthys not good for him in a primary of his own. And i think thats Something Else that gets missed here. Do you agree . I think thats spot on. Listen, anyone who any of the candidates that are krk rare considering running for speaker are going to have to deal with the trump factor and youll see a lot of jockeying to see who can appeal to trump and if not get an endorsement get a tacit endorsement or at least get him to not endorse someone else. And thats going to come with concessions. Thats a really good point. We forget about this. The Impeachment Inquiry into biden that was sort of an organic house thing they wanted to do. But the former president has wanted his own impeachment expunged and no one is going to move forward with that i would suspect of the candidates who are putting their names forward. So i think thats going to be one of the biggest things that people are deciding. Its not just the number of 218. Its how far am i willing to go to both appeal to those eight members you about also with donald trump . I dont think jim jordan would move to try to expunge is that even a thing, expunging the records . Youd know better than me. Im not shoo you are some of these guys are capable of just about anything. So yeah, they could move to try to expunge. But again, these more pragmatic republicans want no part of that at all. This whole palace intrigue is kind of interesting and its dramatic. But weve been seeing this for years. Not to this point with overthrowing of a speaker. But the partys got two big problems right now. Donald trump and abortion. When you get beyond those two issues, all the stuff that were dealing with right now, this is going to be resolved sooner or later. But those are the two issues. And every one of those Republican House members, most of them i should say, those who arent drinking the koolaid, they understand the liability that trump is to all of them, to their majorities and particularly those in Swing Districts and swing states. Everyone knows it. And were not having that conversation right now. Scott im sorry. I never understood this Expungement Business because he was acquitted in both trials. He got impeached and then he was acquitted. So he effectively won on the question of impeachment. Doesnt matter. It happened in the first place. He has to get rid of it how do you expunge it from every article that was written about it, the History Books or every Television Show that weve ever done on it . So you cant like erase it from peoples memory. Nor can you erase the fact that he was acquitted. Ive never understood this. I dont know if there was a thing in the world, by the way, Kevin Mccarthy could have done to stave this off. He had to agree to the rule that led to his downfall in the first place. Except for one thing. There is some reporting that maybe he had wanted to go down the road of working with dems on this, that his Face The Nation appearance on sunday it seems to have been a big it seems to have turned some people now, he said in his press conference, i didnt want to make a deal with dems, i didnt want to be that kind of speaker and turn on the republicans, im a republican. And i get that messaging now. But you know, if you had to go back and sort of go back to build a delorean and go back in time and redo it, maybe you leave the democrat messaging out and keep that option open so that you dont lose right out of the gate. I dont know if there are that Many Democrats who would have sided with Kevin Mccarthy. But i watched all this today and i think about at the white house today the president was getting Drug Companies to negotiate for Prescription Drugs for seniors. The Vice President was in the Senate Swearing in Laphonza Butler as the new senator from california whos going to be in that seat as a standin for senator feinstein. Meanwhile, donald trump is getting a gag order from a judge because hes smearing people online. Kevin mccarthys getting kicked out of the speakers chair. I wouldnt trust these people to run my daughters preschool. I think the government the people who are watching this are seeing a government that is working, that is being led by democrats, and theyre seeing a government that is falling apart at the seams which is being led by republicans. Jamal, let me read you some numbers. 40 you keep talking about polls. Its not about 36. 42. The polls said democrats were going to lose the 22 election. Democrats won the 22 election. I know you dont want anyone to hear these numbers because what im reading are joe it doesnt matter. Are joe bidens Approval Ratings. It doesnt matter. You dont think it matters the president of the United States has an Approval Rating charitiably at 40 . Bill clinton had bad Approval Ratings before he went into his reelection. Barack obama had bad Approval Ratings before he went into his reelection. I think george bush had bad Approval Ratings before he went into his reelection. It doesnt matter. We had good Approval Ratings, actually, and won a majority of the popular vote. The last republican to do it. Everyone, thank you. Up next, the gag order that Jamal Simmons just mentioned in the trump new york fraud trial and why e judge imposed it, next. Earlier, in the hour, jake in his panel talked about former president trumps day in court, and it was indeed quite a day, the judge rebuking the former president for his social media media comments, he seemingly unfazed, though. Hes already fundraising off this into the courtroom, calling today a sham trial. A reminder, trump is and he is in the courtroom of his own volition. More now from kara scannell. What happened today . There was an unexplained 45 minute delay, and then the judge got on the bench this afternoon and said he was issuing a gag order in this case. That was after trump had posted on his social media a photo of the judges and Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer suggesting that she was his girlfriend. The judge said that that wasnt untrue posed and trump did not post any evidence to this. But he said it was unacceptable, saying, personal attacks of any member of my court staff are unacceptable, inappropriate, and i will not tolerate them. Consider this statement an order for getting all parties from posting, emailing or speaking publicly about any members of my staff. Failure to abide by this would really salton city sanctions. The judge said that he had warned they councils for the defendant yesterday about this, because trump had spoken in the hallway about this clerk. And this clerk is the judges righthand person. She sits, often, next to him, to his side at the bench. So, someone who works very closely with. So, after that testimony continued, it was trumps former longtime accountant on the stand, his Defense Lawyers got a chance to begin their crossexamination of him. Trump saying today he will be back in court again tomorrow. Anderson . All right, kara scannell. Thanks so much. Jake . Thanks so much, anderson. Join us now, cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig. Elie honig, obviously, a disgusting smear by donald trump. But do you think that statement, the smear about the judge and his clerk warrants a gag order . I do, jake. Because what donald trump did here was he violated a courtroom commandment. You do not go after the staff. You do not go after the clerks, you dont go after the deputies, you dont go after the court reporters, the marshals. When you are a prosecutor or judge you take on that role knowing you may sometimes be attacked verbally, that there may be insults and criticisms thrown at you. Find, as part of the job. But these folks who work in the courtroom, they are public civil servants. They did not i think this gag order was very much appropriate. And need we remind our viewers that there is a trend. Donald trump does this. He puts this information out. And these individuals, quite frequently, then start experiencing the threats and the just trash talk on social media, but actual, legitimate Death Threats that require police and secret Service Protection for people. Yeah, its a trend. Its a multi times per day trend we are seeing from donald trump now. And if we look at the nature of this posting, i dont want to give it too much attention, but what he is suggesting about this Courtroom Staffer is, a, completely false, according to the judge, the, completely inflammatory, and seems quite likely to yeah. Special counsel jack smith, in separate cases, the criminal cases about january 6th and the classified documents, he has a pending request for a gag order in the January 6th Case for donald trump. How does the gag order he is requesting compared to this one in the Civil Fraud Case . I think the judge in d. C. In the criminal case, judge chutkan, can absolutely look at all Trump Statements in this other case, the new york fraud case. I do have to say, though, what doj is asking for in the d. C. Cases, in my view, over broad. Theyre asking the judge to private Dom Trump From Making Disparaging or inflammatory comments about anyone involved in the case. Look, i was a prosecutor. You are allowed to make a disparaging comment, if you are a defendant, about a prosecutor. You can say, these prosecutors dont know what they are doing, this case against me is worthless. That is okay. So, i do think judge chutkan is going to issue a gag order. But if i were in her shoes, i would say, you cannot make statements that can intimidate, threaten or pose a danger to a witness or to a juror or a staffer. I think it needs to be narrower than what doj is asking for. Trumps defense team, they claim he is eager to testify in his own defense. Do you think his lawyers are actually excited about that prospect . How likely do you think it is he will actually testify . They cant possibly be excited about it. Because this is a civil case, the plaintiffs can force him to testify. And hes only got two options. One is testify. That is a risk. The other is take the fifth. He is entitled to do this. But because this is a civil case, this can be used against him if he takes the fifth. If im his lawyers, i dont like either option. It is a rock and a hard place all right, elie honig. Thank so much. We will be right back. Whether its a former president being issued a gag order one of his house have doesnt trials, or