Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20240622

I think it should be amended to depends, cant it you cant just walked in here and have a baby and expect to beauty citizen. The trough is full. Too many cows and one pastor is what im saying. Host that was jeff, our last caller in the segment of the washington journal. Of next, we would hear from ed martin, president of the eagle forum. He joins us to talk about the political and legislative agenda heading into the 2016 president ial elections. Later, we will be joined by reverend barry lynn to talk about the separation of church and state. We will be right back. Said it, august way ninth marks the 10th anniversary of hurricane katrina, one of the five deadliest storms in u. S. History. Cspan live coverage begins today at the atlantic magazine conference in new orleans, an allday event communityauthors and leaders. Tuesday night at 8 00, cspans 2006 tour of new orleans hurricane damage and recovery efforts. And, ehouse hearing featuring new orleans citizens experiences during the storm. They told us they would take us to shelters. They will us up on these military traps. They declared the city of new parish and jeffersons war zone. It didnt sink in that we were prisoners of war. You cant describe it. Thats your whole life gone. Not only her house, but your community. Your friends, family, everybody gone. Now, it will be one year later, and yo you still dont see famiy and friends that you used to see. Is a hell of a feeling. Followed by to town hall meeting in new orleans. Voted for you. To represent me on the local level. I dont know where else to go. I dont know what else to do. Thursday night starting at 8 00, more from the atlantic conference in new orleans with. Emas craig fugate at 9 00, we will show you president obamas trip to the region, as well as remarks on the recovery effort. Hurricane katrina anniversary coverage all this week on cspan. Washington journal continues. Martin joins us now from st. Louis, missouri. He is president of the eagle forum. He took over that Group Earlier this year. He replaced, in that role, a how do you feel . Las it takes a village to replace Phyllis Schlafly. She is the chair of the board and ceo of the organization. She is a prolific writer and speaker. No one is filling her shoes, more importantly, we are building the organization to go forward. Host speaking about the work of the organization, here is a tweets, a quote from you last week politics is where the action is and we are waging the war. What are the frontlines of that war . What are the issues . Guest first i would say, i found it has been at the Republican Convention every year. One of the great successes that she would point to, in fact, she has a book coming out this fall, is the implementation of the prolife plank in the Republican Party. In 1934, you had people like nixon and ford saying the Supreme Court has spoken on life wade, get over it. A littlem hype phyllislic about war and the organization has said we are interested in the making theystem in Republican Party a conservative party. As a conservative party. As an organization, we spent a lot of time in the states educating about how public generaland schools in can be impacted by common core, how bad we think that is. We talk about issues and international affairs. Phyllis uses the term, military nationalty, not defense. On and on. Im really interested in the earlier part of the program because phyllis and organization talks about the role of judges and judicial supremacy. We have seen it profound shift of the appointees in the Supreme Court, and other places, who have changed the balance of power in america. That is a real question that people are seeing and feeling. You watched a bit, but would beer answer to the question we post a viewers. Guest one of your said what phyllis says, changing the constitution at this point in history is very difficult. She generally says it is a waste of time. For most of her career, she has opposed calls for constitutional conventions. She believes opening of the cause for fundamental changes is a mistake, and a red herring, a waste of time. I think she would say as one of your other callers did, we need live up to the current constitution and have a constitution that has meaning. When the president says he has a pen and a vote, that is sending a message about executive power. I think we think that is the worst of time a waste of time. It is not going to happen. Host we are asking our viewers to join the conversation. If you want to speak with ed martin, the new president of the eagle forum. He took over earlier this year for that group. Republicans can call in, 202 7488001. Democrats, 202 7488000. Independents, 202 7458002. You can also check out the eagle forum online or follow them on twitter. You may know ed martin from his column in washington times, called choice or echo. Explained the name explain the name. Phyllis wrote a book with that name, and wrote about what she saw as the kingmakers picking the candidates weather was eisenhower over taft. The book was written in 1964 and it said, dont let the kingmakers pick, lets have a true conservative. The new book, the new edition of echo wast in tha and at published last fall. People will see that kissinger was pushing reagan to have a copresident with ford. Of course, reagan did not do that and picked bush. That new book is called a , and it isan echo updated. That is what we are talking about. We dont want an echo of the same old policy. In the current environment, you are seeing a conversation in the president ial environment. You are seeing real choices between conservatives and what are the status quo choices. Host we will get to some of your thoughts about how a conservative should navigate this primary field. Nick is up for us tennessee, line for independents. Good morning. Caller thank you. Look, i consider myself a street philosopher. Suffers from what i dope addiction. Oduct there are way too many dope people as welly as poor people. Secondly, Political Correctness. The freedom of speech and the whole nine yards immigration as part of that too. Ook we have to address these matters, and there are only two there are so far interested in at least Political Correctness. Dr. Carson addressed the debt. Hat was dr. Carson and trump what is this trump phenomenon . We never grow up. Look at the country as the schoolyard. Media,e the bullies, the the academics, and the rest of us, the classmen. We are constantly extorted by the bullies. That would be the democratic liberals. Then, you have the toadies. Are the establishment republicans. They come and play with us and talk to us. When the bullies come around, they do their bidding against money in lunch exchange. That is basically what weve got. This kid from a different school, and he doesnt care about anything, and he sits there and spits in the bullies ete. Eye. Is name happens to be trump i want to hear your guest talk about these issues, and how trump is addressing them. They claimed they couldnt do it about obama care because he didnt have congress, we gave them congress. They still didnt do anything. Mcconnellr and what are our toadies. Host lets let ed martin jump in and talk about the schoolyard analogy. Guest i will say this, Political Correctness is a problem. The answer, as ben carson said, is to speak the truth. Our organization, and solution schlaffy speak the truth. Phyllis wrote a book called who family. E american talking about what nofault divorce has done in america. Speaking to the truth and Political Correctness is incredibly important. I agree with that. Way, on september 1113, we have our annual event in st. Louis. Dr. Carson is our first speaker. L. Coman go to eaglecounci to find out more. On the debt question, there is a nother great street philosopher that becomes a racket. We are at the racket. Washington really like the system. Have consolidated power, they racket. Ng a great that is why the conservative movement is having a debate whether be the power in the state or the judges. Your caller brings up a good point. Trump, for us, on china, International Sovereignty eagle forum is a conservative organization, but we oppose all trade deals as bad for the american families. We go somewhere other than the american right on that. Trump is speaking to china, which is a huge threat. We applaud him for bringing those issues to the forefront. Host you bring up trump, the caller brings up trump. Are the positions that he is taking that you disagree with . Backsadline here trump abortion exceptions in case of rate, and says, lies of mother. Has been confusing on that. We are seeing something from the planned parenthood videos that those of us who are prolife and against abortion thought we would never see. They are exposing planned parenthood in a way that people do in fact, our website has whenrmation on this donald trump came out and said plannedd to defund parenthood, and ted cruz said donald trump has backtracked. Questions toforces hear the real standing of where someone stands. I would like to hear the candidates talk about judges. Not just judges who are conservative, would do the same thing us go leah or thomas, but what are the traits in judges that you want to see. That will reveal what you want to see in the constitution. Host jack is waiting on the line for democrats. Us . Erare you with caller i saw a very adjusting poll this morning that donald trump is leading a month basically all republican tea party,c groups evangelical, and moderate. He is ahead on all three. That tells me something. Mosttells me that he likely will be, if this continues, the nominee of the Republican Party. I cant see how he can be stopped. I am a conservative democrat. What bothers me, yesterday, when press, itmeet the lack part of the washington cartel. They make me sick. And some the ones ultra liberal democrats created these problems. , one thing, trump you will not be able to buy him out. He wants more contributions, he says, and he wants money. I dont believe personally that he is that liquid. He is no bill gates. These are the things that have to be addressed. China wants to be the number one power by the year 2049. Cartelhat washington that help china go communist in 1949. It is the same entity of treasonous scum. Guest thank you. Can i respond . Host go ahead. Guest first of all, i appreciate your sediments. I went to the college of holy cross just right of the road. I appreciate a lot of democrats who trump, and others are talking to this election. I was the chairman of the missouri Republican Party and i sat on the rnc for two years. I will tell you, the process for the primary system is really broken. You pointed to those guys, they are both in the tank for jeb bush. Their action on the team jeb bush. Their longtime jeb bush people they are longtime jeb bush people. In iowa, we will see what hundred 50 million spent to campaign for a few delegates, not many. The system is set up to the Republican Party at the democrats, to be controlled by the media and big money. It is a big problem. I would like to point to china. Phyllis and our Organization Forum speaking about the threat of communism, specifically soviet communism. I think that china question is a huge one. It is a communist nation. They treat their people very terribly. They poison the environment. More importantly, we have ourselves in trade deals with them where we are tied to them in a way that is very unhelpful for our families and our future. If you talk to big business leaders, they will tell you that decisionsarly 2000 were made to allow china into the wto, that was the final. Ntry point the business guys that we had to deal with china. We are seeing jobs and way of life changing. China has a big stick over us. It is a big problem. Any candidate who speaks articulately about that threat is important. Host you mention your password before eagle forum. That also included chief of staff for former missouri governor who was on our program. That was last thursday. You also founded missourians among severale, other positions. Now serving as the president of the eagle forum. Next from sun city, california, line for republicans. Caller good morning. I just want to make a quick statement and a question. Everyone knows the left controls the media. In so doing, they break down one taboo after another. Are guilty of destroying wholesomeness in this country. , the liberal democrats, always talk about being for the middle class. Can you would be, how be supportive of the middleclass when you hold political philosophy is predicated on bigger government, more bureaucrats, and higher taxes . Guest and i think crony capitalism has creeped in their. There. Let me talk about the hole wholesomeness question. At eagle forum, we focus on education. We think that common core is one of the greatest threats. It is a different name for the centralization and management of the American Education system. It is not done to good effect. In that early 1960s, social phyllis wroteilo a book on how to read. Im using it for our kids. Our system had gotten so messed up about the system wanting to reading. R you are seeing around the country, the focus on common core is focused on more power for them, back to them not just of the federal government, but the bureaucrats, and the sat tests. It is a huge problem. On the whole from this question, we are a judeochristian country. When we were founded, we were founded in a particular way, and we are losing that. There are lots of reasons we are losing that, but we are losing that. People are reacting. On the question of marriage, homosexual marriage, the Supreme Court deciding on a 54 vote to impose that on the land i think most people dont understand how we got here. We have not had a political. Ebate that one side won we have had an imposition by judges and it is causing a huge confusion for our kids and ourselves. Forum, our solution is more sacks, more arguments, and more ways to show people what it can mean and argue for families in charge families, the way we have understood them for thousands of years. It is a very difficult thing when american sovereignty your earlier question on immigration. Immigration is not just a question about jobs and economy, it is a question of culture. The people who are coming now are not assimilating, for lots of reasons, not all their fault entirely. That is changing america. Host i appreciate with the help of the promotion. Starting at 8 30, bever barry americansjoin us from united for the separation of church and state. Ed martin with us for the next 20 minutes or so. He is taking your calls and comments. Terry is in illinois. Caller thank you for taking my call. , i wanted to ask, we know, as you said, the caucasus, all the games that are played are done by big money. If the kingmakers dont nominate him, dont you think it would be a good thing to run thirdparty . By doing so, do you think we could break the gop kingmakers up . Guest thanks. First of all, i and my boss and mentor, we have never subscribed to the thirdparty theory. If you want a third party, or thirdparty, there are plenty and europe. Here, we have a two party system. That is my first observation. That you are pointing to something. We are at a breaking point, in terms of the party structure. I think both parties are facing that. I didnt know where the conversation would go, but the Republican Party was founded and became a party very quickly, over the course of about one year. At two years into its formation, lincoln. D it was founded to fight by name twinst slavery and the problems of slavery and polygamy. In other words, slavery and marriage were the founding of the party. I hope we go all the way to the convention. I believe we will end up at a convention that is contested, at which time, you will have an argument that the public will look at and say, i like these peoples principles, i may not agree with them on every issue, but i like the principles. Otherwise, i dont think we will win. Donald trump is a welcome addition, he is causing people. O look up and see our debates a woman who is articulate. An africanamerican candidate who is as impressive of a person that you can imagine. I think the Republican Party, and it dont know the Democratic Party bond of, is at a breaking point. If the powers that be and money force a candidate on us that is the same old echo of the past, not only will the party lose, but the party will deteriorate. Host who is that candidate . John you see the s. Ichs and jeb bush ib bush, hes a great guy, have never met him, but he core. Ts common i was inside the rnc to watch. The plan in the rnc is to put behind oneey candidate, decide the candidate early, and put your thumb on the scale and tell everybody to stand down. It will work again. I think we need something fresh for the country. By the way, one of the other one great failure is our churches. A prolifey to be conservative catholic. Our churches have failed to articulate a vision that says something different. If you believe that the 54 decision was a huge threat to marriage and families, the response was milquetoast and not serious. Challenges of and faith communities to respond better. People like barry lynn are having a fair with their vision. Host republicans, 202 7488001. The mcgrath, 202 7488000 democrats, 202 7488000. Bill is waiting on her life from democrats in kentucky. Go ahead. The conservative party has always been for a balanced budgets and lower taxes. How much more for the down further down to be have to go . We are already on the race to the bottom. Our like 48 in the countries in the world in what we are bringing it now. Our countries here in the u. S. Dont pay any taxes, and they get money back, leg boeing. Boeing. What is going on . Guest i think that was a broad comment. Of government being used to favor any individual or corporation is a problem. The problem with the government is that it is not only a pressing one or another group. It picks and chooses winners and losers. Pretty quickly, americans that are not in the group that can influence winners and losers feel like they are left out. Youre caller makes a fine point. If i can, i would like to shift a little bit. One of the things lost in this massive government growth is the notion of why we have a military, and what it means. Use the980s, phyllis term military superiority. A means that we are better than the others in every way that we need to be. When our enemies think about us, they are afraid. When our allies think about is, ed. Y feel good and support instead, we have a conversation about the military that is broader and convoluted. Were losing military superiority. My wife and i watch these kids in france. My wife said, it makes you proud to be american. She paused and said, that is something that seems to be slipping from us. Part of it is the clarity of vision. Y superiority i will tell you more we have to get back to that clarity of what we are as a country. Host lets go to rick in michigan. Caller good morning. I would like to address the education problem that you were speaking of a little bit earlier. I think since the late 1950s, and moving forward, our education has steadily gone downhill. We have had people graduating from high school go down to evenge who cannot write, read, or whatever properly and le yet they move them on through the system. The basic problem is all of these people are in the voting block too, with no education, really, and being able to vote. Also, if i could, i would like to address i couldnt get in earlier on the immigration thing i think the 14th ,mendment, the wording in it that really makes a viable is reside says people who in a state people coming across our borders, they may reside in a state, but it is a foreign state. , you to your first point are saying that your level of education should be a determining factor and whether you should be able to vote or not . , andr if you cant read you only listening to propaganda put out by whatever party, how who you aremine really voting for . I think we have seen how the voters education and look atoted where we are at today. We have a major problem in this country. Host i will let ed martin respond. Uest two comments if you go to our website, you , notsee Phyllis Schlafly only do she do a report, but we also have something called the education reporter. Every summer, she writes about and is going on in the an nea, one of the strongest unions in the country, and phyllis would say, one of the most destructive. Common core is a new name for when bureaucrats are in charge of education. They will be the ones to tell you where your kids can go, whether they are College Ready or not. A footnote, if we did not have a country that was so quick to go to free trade and export so many many factory jobs, we would have jobs, like here in st. Louis. When they build out chrysler, we lost thousands of jobs. There should be jobs in our nation that can be filled by people who have Different Levels of skills not better or worse, but someone is really good at manufacturing jobs, thats fine. We dont have those jobs. Commonportantly, for core and the centralization that has gone on for years to tell you, your parents, where your and manage what they will become. That is very foreign to america. It is very common in the soviet. Nion, in europe and youre, you get to certain point, and i told your kids can go on this chocolate that track. We are less likely to want that for our families. I would agree with you that the kids may not be as educated, but thatt get or understand impacting the voting. Host on the education issue, on thater, a viewer says eagle forum has tried to change American History and schools to christian history. Guest i think he may be referring to texas. They buy the most textbooks, so textbookence the way a reads. We advocate for a telling of history that does not shy away our judeochristian history. You hear the stories about the andk rouge regimen pastors who are not pastors, and through history, people who were using an understanding their toeochristian heritage inform what they did. That is not something we want to be washed out of history. We want to include and be proud of it. Waitingts go to albert on the republican line. Caller good morning. This is my second time to be on cspan. Toant to direct my comments what the guest is saying about christian country, christian state. I am a black africanamerican republican. Im 87 years old. Wordyou o evoke the how they havek at been treating the country up until today. As far as donald trump is concerned, if you look back in history, in the 1930s, hitler came to power in the same way rabble rousing and getting the country on his side. How can you mentioned that the way wehurch and treat africanamericans and native americans in this country. Guest i happen to be a christian. I think there is room to recognize that when you are christian, you fell, and ask for forgiveness. I think there is part of that. Right now, i think america is a judeochristian community, and yet we are killing tens of millions of, by the way, africanamerican babies with abortion. The judeochristian culture that got us here is why america exists. We did not break away from england because we thought they were not being friendly with us or fair. We recognize that we could do better. The better we can do is freedom for people to live their lives the way they wanted under the rule of law, where government wasnt a bully. In other words, the government is supposed to protect the basics and allow us to flourish. Some of us flourish more or less, and that is a different question. That is what judeochristian provided. S sunset, texas is up next where kathy is waiting on the line for democrats. Caller good morning. How are you this morning . Host good. Go ahead. Caller yes, i was calling about the immigration. I was going to say, im from texas and we get a lot of immigration here. A legal lot of the theory. They come over to work jobs that americans dont want to work. They get minimum wage, no benefits, they dont do pay taxes because they are working under the table, but they get all the other benefits. Stamps, all the health care, everything. They are not accountable. Not accountable for anything, like we are accountable for. Who is paying for the immigration laws not being correct . The people who are trying to come over to the country illegally, it is the americans who end up paying for it. The ones working hard and tried to pay their taxes. Kidsigh school cannot even get jobs to get out on their own because the minimum wage is so low. Host ed martin . Iest first, and pardon if call incorrectly, Milton Friedman said you cannot have a. Elfare state and open borders we need to be frank about that. Are people coming here who are benefiting from being here. There is no judgment on their being. It is a distraction description of the facts. I object to your comment that they are doing jobs that americans wont do. Greatk this is one of the lies of america. I know plenty of people that will do work. What it may mean is that businesses may have to pay more to get people to pick strawberries, or clean hotel rooms, but it is simply not true that americans dont want to work. I would especially point to this absolute disgrace, which is the isas. V Software Companies basically say that they need engineers to come here because they cant find them in america. What it means is they want indian engineers, or other nations, so they can pay half the salary. I think that is outrageous. Forumd say, you wil has articulated for years that we need a pause in immigration, both a legal for sure, but legal. These kinds of things are done because of crony capitalism. I you will see, i forget the company, lucky for them, they were complaining at a meeting that they needed engineers, but at another meeting, they said they were laying off others. A game was being played. There are a lot of issues packed up. It is not that americans will not do the work. They will do the work. We need to be more respectful of our american people. I would start there. Host time for a few more calls with ed martin. Steve has been waiting in florida on the line for independents. Go ahead. Caller thank you, gentlemen. Ed, i like some of the ideas, but i think you are way out of touch. The two party system has not worked for the american people. You see, they write the laws. If it were open, if it would open for an independent, or some freethinker, see what we have right now . Everybody wants donald trump because he is above he is above you guys. I dont know what it is. I dont know why you cant listen. You dont listen. We need either paid to move the capital out of washington, d. C. Lets move it to north dakota, they made money during the recession. Lets do something different. Donald trump, we are going to vote for him because you dont have anybody 17 guys with no new ideas. But by mexico. Lets just by mexico. Whats he going to cost us . 1 trillion . Lets buy it. Down the border. Start thinking outside the box. Guest real quick, i will point to a call that i wrote. I called it the hunger games plan. That was to move all of the departments to a small city. I agree with you. If you like the hunger games movie, the capital is growing, and we, ill in the districts, are feeling more tension in the way we live. The two party system, whether you like it or not i agree with your sentiment that we need fresh ideas and new energy the system is a twoparty system. To run a thirdparty, to me, is like a constitutional amendment, it is a waste of time. Im interested in changing what is going on. If you are interested, become a delegate to the convention in cleveland. Ofle forum and one phyllissically ,reat strengt conservative and hope that the other party will come along as well. Host you can check out the forum. Org. Gle a onan also follow twitter. Thank you for your time. Next, we will be joined by reverend barry lynn who serves the executive director for separation of church and state. We will be right back. Saturday, august 29 of march marks the end todayrricane katrina and speak with poets, activists and others on the recovery efforts. Admin and 2005 house hearing describing their experiences during and after the storm. Loaded us up on his military trucks, then they declared the city of new orleans stillr zone, and is without thinking that we were prisoners of war. Hurricane damage and recovery. Describe, your wall life is gone. Nothing but cemented rubble and friends, family, everybody gone. Even now, 10 years later, you do not forget it, you will never forget it the rest of your life. A town hall moderated by the then mayor. You. Am finding for i know all those the state level, federal level, and all other levels. I do not have them. I voted for you to represent me on a local level. I do not know where else to go. I do not know what else to do. On thursday, more from femas director craig fugate. Regionmas trip to the 10 years after the hurricane. All this week, on cspan. Washington journal, continues s. Host the reverend barry lynn joins us now, he is the president of americans for separation of church and state. He is the author of god and government twentyfive years of fighting for equality, secularism, and freedom of conscience. Is covering writing old and new, including your own speech, saying that religion thrives best where government takes no position. It turns out, 13 years later, it has not changed. Right does not understand something fundamental, that the history of this country really demonstrates and Government Works us religion works best when you keep a distant distance between the two. Government should not be hostile to religion, they should accept unlessims of religion they come in direct conflict with someone else and the constitutional right right we are better off we keep that decent distance and i said it in 2002, and i say it is still too today true today. Host who is the religious right today . Is it different than 25 years ago . Guest fundamentally, it is not rated this is a reliable statistic. It is something that comes out every time john greene does a survey. It is a very powerful Interest Group of voting block, particularly in the republican primaries. What about a very specific Interest Groups, politicians. Are they more religious than they were 25 years ago . Guest i talk about religion the 1950s,d in politicians tended not to discuss their personal religious matters. Now we find out, just recently, Donald Trumps Favorite Book is the bible, hillary gave the same answer some months ago. This is indicative of how important it is for politicians to think, at least with that they are communicating with the full by saying i am godly. Can prove it because i retitle faith hill other president s have tried to prove that. The first tried to prove that his favorite verse john 3 16. Democrats and republicans want people to know that any religious voters on their side or just like them. Democrats are trying to not get too far behind on the jesus momentum. Is absolutely true. This is a bipartisan problem in american politics. Frankly, what you should do, Something Like bill bradley when he was running for the senate and then when he had that run for the president was asked over time about his religion. He was a frankly, this is a political campaign, i do not choose to discuss my personal religious beliefs. It is ok if you do, but if you pander in your explanation of those things, then i think youre making a big mistake. Megyn kelly, during the debate thewith the 16 or 17 10 people who were there in that part of the debate, she asked about god. I got a lot of notes a complaint shenext day about why brought up god. But i like it when people say so what do you think about god and gods Relationship Campaign . The people that night did not give clear answers, but they have in the past. John kasich told meet the press in april, when asked how are you going to decide how to run into president , run for and he said i will let the lord lead me and tell me what to do with the rest of his life. So he is now running for president , so he thinks he got word that god wanted him to run. Ben carson said when he decided to run he felt the fingers of god. We do not know what that meant, but clearly it meant to him, run, im going to be the next president and it goes on and on. If you have four or five people who say in one Political Party that god wants you to be the next president , there has clearly been a failure to mitigate or understand with communication was, because they cannot all be right. Republicans, democrats, independents, we have lines for you to weigh in. The book god and government twentyfive years of fighting for equality, secularism, and freedom of conscience, the reverend barry lynn. How often are people surprised to learn you are a reverend . Guest frequently. But they also are surprised that i fight for secularism. But there are two kinds of secularism. There are atheists to believe there is no god, and and there are theists who believe that whatever you think about the god question, the existence of purpose and the university with these kind of russians we should debate them in appropriate, but we havew as i said, about 25 more years to save the First Amendment. A clear separation between church and state. Host how did you get into this work . Guest what i discovered, after working in civil rights and working against the war in vietnam, i had a conversation with one of my roommates in tolege who said he was going london for spring break. Fun buthat sounds like he said it was not because they had to go to london to get an abortion. Prior to roe versus wade. But he said it is too dangerous here. It was eyeopening for me. The powerful religious interest of the time, the roman catholics especially, and such control that they could tell when they were permitted to do and not permitted to do with their own bodily integrity. It was a shock to me. I had a lot to learn. I did learn a lot. Most of my life has been devoted to the protections of the First Amendment. Can find out about that in your book. Lets start with judy on the line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning. I very respectfully disagree with the reverend. Our country came out of the magna carta. We were on a judeochristian system. Murder was murder, adultery was adultery, etc. The danger with a separately separate slope is that we got roe v wade, and now we are marriage that the Supreme Court is legislating. And i would submit to you, as much as i do not supported from a religious stand work, gatekeeper gay people marrying does not kill people, abortion does. I want to know how we got so far out of whatewed up most of us would consider outright murder. Guest the idea that the magna carta was a direct connector to historicallyion is incorrect. It is like the mayflower compact and the other things of the religious right. I think they are fundamentally wrong about that. When you set up the constitution, it was article three, no religious test for public office. This veryssed it with directive that congress should make no law was acting religion or the establishment thereof. Apply the billto of rights to the states. This new interest in the 14th amendment on the part of the candidates, maybe they should look at what their own party thought the 14th amendment meant at the time of its ratification. Host lets go to james, in rochester, michigan. It were up next. Good morning. My comment is actually a reference to your previous guest who said very rarely a couple of times that he feels, or his opinion is such that the United States was founded solely on judeochristian principles. I want to prequalify my question with the understanding that im a catholic. Disagree that somehow religion played a role in the founding of the United States, but to solely separate judeochristian principles and the only basis really rubs me the wrong way, because it marginalizes other religions and other at the cities. I would like to get your guest comment on that. Guest youre absolutely right. There were people who were practitioners of religion, even of the fairly conservative christianity, but the real framers of the constitution, wanted to make clear that this country was not to be considered founded on the christian faith. Fact, one of the early congresses, something was passed called the treaty after believed to deal with the barbary pirate incidents. The Senate Unanimously passed in the treatynd it says this nation was in no way founded on the christian faith. I am not sure you could get a treaty with that language in the past the current senate, but you could then. It is symptomatic of just how clear the framers were that they wanted nothing to do with defining the government as having something to do with religion. Thomas jefferson, for example, was asked repeatedly to sign days of prayers and thanksgiving. He rejected those. Now they are routinely pass, routinely supported by president s. Thein the days of old, in good old conservative days, they did not find that easy to get even some Statement Like that approved. Jefferson, madison, these people were not interested in having the government help you be profoundly religious and they could believed you could do that yourself. Host talk about what happened after september 11, and your sons school, the title that chapter, in times of trouble the watchdogs have to work even louder. Jesse jackson showed up at my sons school and gave a speech. And of course he is jesse jackson, a famous person, and they said sure. He used a lot of bible passages, and he did a lot of praying, and one of my sons friends who said he was hindu said can he do that . Cant. Aid of course he and i called the school, and other parents called the school, and they admitted it was a mistake that there is no emergency exception to the First Amendment. It got even worse. 9 11, a sequence shot outside of a gas station, because beside turbine and thought he must be a terrorist. Caller good morning, my question is, the universities, schools are, the all pushing islam on the history books. Fathers, a lot of our heroes of the past, they are all being demonized. Commandments, they are putting of this horrific statue beside the 10 commandments resembling the devil. How can they push islam on our at these Public Schools, which pay taxes for, and not allow prior prayer . Guest it is a good question. Numberas pushing islam, one, i do not think that you can find Many High School text books that we should in the sense that they are saying this is the one true faith, something we did when we had mandatory prayer of a christian nature in Public Schools until the early 1960s. This idea that the textbooks have somehow been excising the founding fathers, emphasizing islam, i think this is empirically not true. But i do want to say that wins will go overboard and try to promote islam, americans united is one of the few groups that is actually out there saying wait a minute, you cannot do that either. Years ago,ia a few there was an effort to have young people in a high school memorized islamic prayers from the koran. We of course, hit the ceiling. Imagine if someone had gone back and said to young people, do not forget, memorized and prayer from the christian new testament. Everybody would have objected. There was a little concerned when maybe we should not do this, but for us it is clear, you have to be a hundred percent in favor of a rentable, separation of church and state, mosque in state, temple and state, and im proud that we did that. In reference to the 10 commandments monuments and the satanic image, this was because this is an open forum. This was opened by the state of for everybody. It was government property, they decided that the 10 commandments monuments there, and then a group all the satanic temple, which is actually not satan worshipers, they wanted to make a point in the point was important. If your code to open this for everyone coming up to open it to us. That is what has happened out there. Would you prefer that teachers across the country ignore the role of religion in the history of the world . Guest it is important in both history and literature classes to bring up the bible literatureeligious when it is relevant to the conversation pretty cannot talk about anything good, bad, or ugly unless you talk about religion. Fafnir, you have to know who absalom is. There are lots of religious references in literature a. Host what is appropriate use . Guest when you have reference or somebible verse bible connection from any Great Southern writer, and you say this comes from the christian bible, that is ok. When youbles me is have a whole course adjustment bible. There are plenty of people promoting it under the theory read shakespeare or literature without knowing about the bible. But you do not have to have a class making it being the most important religion in the country. We are a very diverse country now. We were always diverse, but never quite this diverse. Wine for democrats, mitchell, good morning. Caller perception, i would think, would be the key word. Bad sales ande promotions breaking of the religious right, you have the conservatives coming of the rockefeller type, you have tea arty types, you have the forecrat, you have the abortion, not abortion, your feet from you have the donald trump types. These young people are looking at their grandparents greatgrandparents plan that hypocrisy, and just because things change, the change of times tells me that these young people are going to continue to want to have separation of church and state because it keeps teens and we have to think positive for the good of the country. So those hypocrites, i think toy cut their own knows spite their face. You have young people who are going to see it differently. But i believe what were going to do is move forward versus all of that hypocrisy which caused this country so much hate and so much grief. We are reaping what we sow. Guest youre absolutely right. We are reaping what we sow. I have been to religious right conferences, many of what i talked about in the book. When you see the parents of some of these evangelical young people, and here the polling daily from their own pollsters. And they find out that even before the Supreme Court decision on Marriage Equality that 44 of millennials, 2230yearold young people in fact the or did it even before these records did. When this kind of data comes out, with evidence for evolution support it is like being pollsters are the scope skunk at the picnic. It is not catching on with their very own children. That makes them horrified. It starts to get them more involved in two getting the government into the business, instead of saying we did something wrong by providing certain things, including for many evangelical millennials a sense of hatred. They just think their parents and grandparents hate gay people. That is not a trajectory for the future. That is for the past. Host as an ordained minister, you mistakenly get invited to some of these. Sometimes i get invited, sometimes i just sign up and then people want to take pictures of eight. The interesting thing, i was on an elevator at one of the Family Research Council Meetings that are held in washington every october, and a woman came on the elevator with me. She said barry lynn . I said yes. She said i want to take a picture when hes lucky to get the girls at church. I said i am happy to do that, i do not charge. Maybe i shouold. Maybe i should. Caller before i asked my question, i need to get some clarification from your guest about, is he a christian minister . The United Church of christ. Caller that means you are a follower of jesus christ . Guest that is correct. Minister, that is a leadership role. You are there to minister to the people and guide them in what christianity is. Christian, is, as a do you believe that abortion is ok . Do you think it is ok for a an abortion under any circumstances . Do think that abortion is a moral prerogative of each , atvidual, every individual any time in her pregnancy. Is ar i do not ask if it prerogative, and asking if you as a person believes that abortion is ok to take the life of an innocent baby in the womb . Do you believe that is ok . That that baby has no rights, has no right to life, and that it is ok to have that life of the baby . Do you think that is ok, as a minister . Guest i do not think it is a baby. We are talking about a nascent life, a possible life and were not talking about a fully human life. Not only do i believe that, the early church believed that, and human thing sense of worship was known in bible times, that jesus might have made a comment about this if it had been that important to him. He did not. The only thing we know for sure from the jewish and christian scriptures is that abortion is not the equivalent of murder, because the penalties imposed in ancient israel were different for the two acts. That is all we know. Host one more followup . Caller i believe that he is very misguided. I do not believe he deserves to have the right is a reverent or minister, because he is not clearly following the teachings of jesus christ. I would ask him right now as he is sitting there, and this is a hypothetical, but if jesus christ were to have a seat at the table with him, and he could look at jesus and say that is not really a human being, we do not know what that is. I believe this is all about him. I believe he is a charlatan. I believe it is about him trying to get payment fortune for himself. Anybody could take that title would believe that jesus christ would accept that taking the life of innocent human being is ok. It is not ok. If jesus were here, i am sure we would have a conversation, and i would give them exactly the same answer that i give to you. It is not just me, there are all religious organizations and religious leaders in many denominations and many of those 2000 religions that i mentioned exist in the united date such would agree with my view of this. Jesus did not mention abortion, he could have. He mentioned a lot of other things there is no recorded evidence that he said a word about this topic. Host i question about something that happens nearly every day. Hen the houses and session why do you allow everyday commerce to begin with a prayer . I might have been making some progress on this, outside of the courtroom, when republicans took over the congress and Newt Gingrich became the speaker of the house. Bob livingston was a major player at that time from louisiana. Radio showbeing on a with livingston, and i said you are cutting all these programs. You are cutting the number of elevator operators, what about the chaplain . It is costing about 350,000 a year at that time. He said he would think about that. Its got a lot of attention. Newt gingrich came in and told the New York Times a few weeks later that we have abandoned that possibility. We are not going to use volunteer chaplains and of all denominations are all over capitol hill. They could have saved all that money. He said it would have looked bad for us if we did, it was like we are antireligion. It would look like if youre proconstitution if you use volunteers and use tax dollars on something other than christian prayers. Unfortunately very few people have a technical understanding how to challenge practices like that. It continues to this day. My judgment, look at the prayers, look at what they currently accomplished, as a legislative measure, and then tell me if this prayer works or if it does not. Host we have about a half hour left. If you want to call into a will put the phone numbers on the screen. Jeffrey has been waiting in michigan on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. I have a lot of respect for you. Guest thank you. I listened to the ones who called before. These kind of people are liars. How can you be a christian and you hate people . Racist and call yourself prolife . Christianity is about love and loving your fellow man. It is not about hate. We have all been babies. Womb, andabies in the , those kinde born democrats lethe these people take over. We are liars, they are hypocrites. , my wife is not going to have 18 kids, but they want their wife to have 18 kids. Protective of the unborn, they want to take away womens rights. Womens rights are private thing. Host you brought up a couple topics. I will let the reverend jump in. A socalledis right, the right of fetuses to be bored, versus the right of women to make a choice and an important choice. Their personal and dublin, or their integrity, for their future, for their employability. It would be nice if everything worked perfectly in this country. Say,s barney frank used to the religious right tends to worry about life only from the moment of conception until the moment of earth. Birth. Momentso care about the of natural birth, which is why they are strongly opposed to any kind of intervention, even in circumstances in the famous case of terri schiavo, when you said you could not withdraw lifesustaining treatment, and many of us said that is not life to begin with. They call it natural death, productive machines is ok to call natural death. Control every minute from natural birth to conception to natural death. That is not consistent with our democracy. Host mary, good morning. Caller good morning. One of the undertones i am hearing here is a very fervent effort there is a difference , the freeeedom exercise of a persons religion and freedom from religion. I am hearing superhuman efforts for the freedom from religion. We are hearing that the bill of rights gives us extremely wide latitude to exercise our religion. Therem hearing is that that itso much pushback is a constant struggle to that we were space afforded. We were not really afforded that by the bill of rights. The bill of rights is just a backstop, a guarantor of a ride right thattes that predates that. As far as i am concerned, religion should be given the most wide berth. The Opposing Side would have to blend over backwards to prove and over backwards to prove that that should be narrowed. Guest it is an interesting theory. But i do not agree with it, i do not think it is historically correct. The bill of rights is there for a nervous. The socalled original cost fusion did not have a bill of rights, and there were people that said i might be willing to ratify this, but i sure would like a bill of rights. And freedom of religion, the freedom to be protected from the imposition of someone elses religion, and the free exercise clause are put in the First Amendment in order to guarantee both. To freedom to practice your religion, i would assume you do not agree that religiouswith every belief has the right to practice it, because in some cases it has a very detrimental effect on someone else. So when in recent years there was a bill passed in congress or religious freedom restoration, i supported it the time. Ted kennedy was a major supporter, and bill clinton signed it. We thought this was a guarantor of the things you are talking about. A prisoner was to wear long hair because he is a native american, we thought this piece of legislation would help to guarantee the success of any lawsuit they would file, and it has. The problem is, in about a year ago, and a case called hobby lobby, five members of the Supreme Court said that even forprofit Companies Like hobby lobby, people who sell crafts and plague flamingo kits, which are not religious icons, those companies have the right to exercise religion. That is a preposterous idea. They were trying to exercise it by saying we will give you health insurance, you women employees, but we will not cover certain kinds of contraception. That is another example where modern evangelical millennials disagree with their parents. There is overwhelming support for if you are a private company and you have insurance, you have to cover contraception. Waiting on our line for independents. Good morning, you were on with the reverend barry lynn. Caller could you give me a usually call in about a topic, but i want to mention something about the 14 amendment. Can come in and have citizenship by being born here. The black community and the poor White Community are competing for jobs. Jesse jackson was speaking bible verses. E should have left countries, go to saudi to reach christianity and see what happens to you. You, would your marry a gay couple . I would. The United Church of christ was one of the first religious denominations to agree and to provide assistance for people who wanted to perform samesex weddings. We have been doing that historically, particularly in have ratified thesex marriages before Supreme Court decision in june of this year. But going to saudi arabia is not an example that we ought to be holding up. Saudi arabia has a miserable treatment of women, they have a miserable treatment of nonmuslims and we all know that. We should be better than that. They should be a country that promotes the idea that when the diversity is real and it is here, they need to celebrate it and not start curtailing it. The idea that if you do not like it, just leave, it sounds like a forgotten piece of our past involving race. We do not want to serve like people at this restaurant, but we do not mind you going next door. Comfort level is not a constitutional standard. We should not be in the position of forcing people to make a leaving about classroom, leaving assembly, or leaving a restaurant because of the deal does not like what they say. Host jill is waiting on our joe is waiting on our line for democrats. Caller good morning. Im a disabled be a veteran. Prayer isagree that taught in school, sunday school, not Public School. In politics, when they bring religion, most of these politicians violate the ninth commandment of daring. In, and nobody says a word. They are ready a child factor, but what she is that childs they forget about her and do not take care of anything not that remind the the 1966 degree worth a force every woman to have at least five kids. Practiceistian should what st. Francis of us as he used to do, he said everywhere i go i preach the gospel will. Sometimes i use words. The here at fort bragg in special operations. God the on your endeavors and families, those of you who are serving our country. Guest amen to that. We represented these widows who during the administration of the Bush Administration to allow pagans to have their emblem of dstones alla over the country. Going backg widows to the korean war, to the vietnam war, and to iraq and afghan and. Afghanistan. He time the president thatot believe wiccans were a legitimate religion. Veteransd to sue the administration to get the amblin for atheists and humanists. We won, we did not even have to go to the full trial because the Justice Department said we cannot defend this position. Once you give emblems of honor , whenryone but one group the one groups come calling, you have to give it to them as well. Ist one issue bring up politicking in churches. What crosses the line . West the good news is, when complain about politicking in churches, we do not go in gray areas. If somebody stands up in a public and says vote prolife, that is not our concern. Things whereto they say president obama is a baby killer and a gay lover, and then go one to explain why he could not vote for him. That was way over the line. Incident where a pastor said on a sunday morning the people lebanon tuesday, if you need a ride to the holy life to the polling place, come to the church. We will take the church bus and we will drive you to the polling place. They were asked to they were asked to their record to vote for. If you havent to say democrat, they said he cannot get on the bus. Are so far over the line, and the basis for all this is a thatsion of the tax code says 501 c 3 groups, or all aurches cannot endorse candidate for public office. The time. This all we get dozens of complaints every year. There is a whole campaign to do this by religious rights group arizona. About six ago a federal judge says we have to change one sentence and the irs regulation in order to begin these investigations. Ofis just naming the title the person who can start the audits based on these violations of law. Six years have passed, they did rulemaking here in washington felt that offer polls ands and then hundreds of people write responses. Later,dahalf years there has been no change. There has not been in this administration, a single effort to investigate, much less panel lies in some way a group that has so clearly gone over the endorsing a candidate for office. Host why do you think there is that . Guest because there are these organizations, these welfare organizations that have a slightly different tack exemption. It is very very what youre not supposed to do in a substantial amount of your work. The irserance is what calls it. You cannot endorse candidates at all with church resources. The famous story about the monkeys who were given and none who were given an infinite number of typewriters and would eventually type out shakespeare. This is five monkeys, five were processes in a room. This is not rocket science, this is not changing the Health Care System or favoring what to do with wars in the middle east, this is simple and has not been done. It is disgraceful. Mark, on our line for republicans. Good morning. Caller i have two questions. Number one, when in your religion do believe that a person or an individual has a soul . At what part of their life do they have a soul . I do not that in my religion any one person who is a person of that religion could give you an answer to that restaurant. To that question. Im happy to make it possible for every woman to make her own moral judgment about two things, is there a soul their demand to what degree does the fact that there is a soul there means i should not obtain an abortion . That is what we would call hoice. Ore c what you believe and putting what you believe into practice. I would never want to tell anybody when the soul was there, and when that means you cannot have an abortion. Host do you have a second question . Caller i do. He seemed to be centering completely on conservative ministers. I think youre wrong on history. If it were up for the africanamerican churches, and their ability to organize themselves within the churches, that was their safety zone. That is where they were able to organize, and they organized politically. The civil rights move it, which has never been one of was, have d it not been the leadership of the black ministers throughout the south, and what you are now saying, you would think they would have enjoyed their taxexempt status. Free to goe righ ahead. Guest youre right about that. The same races for the africanamerican communities in the 1960s were the churches. Martin luther king jr. Spoke a church, a synagogue, almost every day of his professional life. But his close confidence and friend john lewis who is now a member of congress and the state of georgia has told me and many that dr. King never endorsed a candidate for public office. That, because he insisted that was not the role of the church. He talked about issues, he talked about why he needed to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act of he understood those civil rights principles. No one is suggesting that any church, including the most conservative america cannot talk about issues. What they cannot do is endorse candidates for public office. Host jeremy, our line for democrats. Caller good morning. The reality is christianity. Christianity is reality. Jesus christ is the spirit of life, saying is the spirit of death. It is a test. We are in the test. We all are. When you say what you say, as regards to abortion, you are correct in principle, however god is judge. Likee not to judge, just you said about Martin Luther king. He was not a judge, he was a man, a spirit of life. The spirit of death took him. That battles confusion. History never changes because the word never changes. Man changes history, but he will not succeed. Host do you have a question . Is, why doquestion we keep speaking about religion babble . Igion is guest i hear you. I think a lot of people accept that idea. But i think we have to recognize that we are not alone as christians in this country. That we have these 2000 religions and all the believers are firstclass citizens. If youre going to be living in this country, if you were a person in this country, you deserve to be treated just as well as anyone, including jesus christ as my savior believers. Lot of babel, and there is no question about that. It comes from the right, left, the middle. But our Quest Nutrition says we have to make decisions based on the common they accepted principles of the constitution itself. A pretty good idea, freedom of speech, equal protection of the law, these are the things that ought to matter. Ive a book on my desk that is hundreds of pages long called politics according to the bible. This is a guy about how the operate,system is to what fighter jets we should buy. And frankly, i am not buying a lot of that. Leverage his sermon, i do ask people do i think about something been something other than church and state separation . Go into a closet and pray, do not be acrylic liquid tdo not be a hypocrite, because then my father will answer your prayers. Go back to the constitution, not the rival passages that bible passages that support my beliefs. Host why are churches, synagogues, mosques, taxexempt . Nonbelievers are forced to pay taxes. Isst one of the realities if you take a property rich church in any of americas inner cities, and all the fun tax them, you would find that you do not have the income this late in the game, they would go broke. Destroyed institution of the church. But if we were to start over, i do not see any reason to guarantee any Tax Exemption for every church and religiously affiliated hospital. But we have almost crossed the rubicon and it is a list too late to go back without literally destroying lots of innercity churches, to say nothing of small rural churches. Host enforcing the politicking issue. Lets make sure that these churches do not get Government Funds or their programs. Barack obama, when he was a candidate in 2008, said that george bushs faithbased initiative would have to be changed and he said i would not want to do away with it, the idea that you give money to churches to do good work, but he said he would get rid of the provision that says if you get government grants or contracts. Ou have to employ anyone you cannot have a religious litmus test in order to hire someone. And a majority of people in the country thought that that was posture. But last week we organized a letter with civil Rights Groups theover washington asking president to do what he has said he would do in 2008, and not give money to people who are basically religious they get. They will not hire you. Barack obama signed an executive order that says if you government get government grant or contract you cannot dissuade on basis of sexual orientation. Now we have this bizarre system where if you are a lesbian coming cannot be discriminated against, that is good, but if you are a lesbian jew, or a lesbian atheist, somebody can get the money and they we are not discriminating against you on the basis of sexual orientation, were discriminating against you at this facility because you are an atheist. This makes no sense. That is where all these groups have said, on multiple occasions, to the administration. Just clean this up. This is the biggest stain on the civil rights record of the obama administration. Nothing has happened in all these years. Paragraphsnge a few in the bush executive order, and you fix the problem, and you bring integrity to the idea that religious discrimination is always wrong. And it is even worse with tax money involved. Host california, our line for republicans. Caller hello. I have a question for you. In thegly believe separation of church and state. And most americans agree with that. Most americans agree with the bill of rights. At the beginning of the bill of rights, the way i understand it, and the way i was taught the whole bill of rights, is that it godgiven,e unalienable rights, and then it was the right. It says those rights are coming from god. Do not really believe that those rights came from god. They came from the people that were writing the bill of rights. They were given to us from the government. The rights were not given to us by god. Where did they get that idea from . Out, or would you , or be in favor of taking out the phrases or the god language that exists . Are you talking about the declaration of independence . We hold these truths to be selfevident, that we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights . Are you talking about that . That, im talking about and some word talks about how we were given these right by god. I just feel like it is important to take all of the god language out of the constitution. What john is trying to point out is that language is constitution, not in the bill of rights, it is in the declaration of independence. It is very vague. There is a whole book that was written called the godless constitution. The point of those authors is that god is specifically not mentioned in the cause is you should do and they would argue for a reason. They wanted any prior document, the magna carta, the declaration of independence, that those would not be the basis of Constitutional Rights in this country. God is not in the constitution, not to not be in the constitution. Back in the 1940s and 1980s there were ever stupid jesus and were efforts to put a jesus amendment in the constitution, and that always fail in the rights that come in this country come from a document. But that document does not mention god. Host well, our line from independents. Theer i am proud of program you provide for the public. It is an open window for citizens to see what our government is doing. This guest is doing a lot of injustice and it should not have the reverent before his name. Who are youaid calling good, only one is good, and that is god. He has to rely something, this is holy. What you are talking about is holy. God is holy. Andything about the word his plan about salvation is holy. What you need to realize is that what you are speaking here is profanity against the holiness of god. If youre a christian, like you say, you should have the holies where it beating him to death right now, because the holy spirit is it everyone who declares himself a christian, the son of god. But you need to also realize that elizabeth was old and age, and cannot have a child, and who gave her that house . Child . God did. And that little child spoke, it kicks the wall of his mother when he saw the son of god and his mother. De of do you understand what that means . With theunderstand story means to you, but it do not think it has anything to do with the questions of abortion. Me argument youre making to was made to me by a united texas,congressman from when is testifying on the state of religious freedom in america. Ofre is a dizzying amount religious freedom in america, but people who are practicing it are not christian, bornagain or otherwise. Congressman gomer started to ask me about going to heaven. I know he was sitting on a panel with at least two jewish members and one buddhist member. Usingected official taxpayers time to interrogate me about religion, i dont think that is appropriate. Ishink congressman gomer probably a walking, talking example of why we need separation of church and state in this country. Host have you ever been quick to jump on the topic of separation of church and state . In your book you talk about your daughter praying at lunchtime. Guest yes, over spaghetti dinner she said, when i prayed today, and i was immediately horrified. Oh my goodness, she is in a Public School and i will have to follow file a lawsuit and followup on this issue. Anyone take ad school stands and tell you to pray. She said no. I think of how about the cafeteria lady . Did she tell you it was time to pray . And i think about why did you pray . And she said, because we always pray over them the meals and i was just would need to thank god for the food. Which was a really good answer. She is doing what every child should do, pray in private, pray visibly, but do it without government acting on it. Host go ahead. Caller there are two groups today, christian religionists and politicians. To the christian religionists, two things i want to point out, christ said, if you broke one of these laws, youve woken them all. You broke them all. Sins at one time or another nailed him to the cross according to the christian religion. He said his kingdom is not of this earth. Im going to tell you what christ in his own words said about government here on her. They you would think eventhem with things that they cannot keep. They love to sit at the head of. He table you pretend to be holy with your long speeches and public prayers while you are evicting widows from their homes. You snakes, you sons of vipers, how shall you escape the judgment of health . He doesnt want anything to do the judgment of hell . He doesnt want anything to do with all of these governments on earth. He will replace them all someday. And that is what is really in the bible if you really study it. Yes, good point. There are certainly many politicians in washington who say, you know, we read the bible and have a selective interest in explaining how the bible is. Elevant to making policy but hypocrisy, unlike contraception, heterosexual or homosexual marriage, hypocrisy. S a sin in the christian bible these other things are not. Host we appreciate your time. Talk about aill push by some student athletes to byonize in a recent decision the National Labor Relations Board that will be a setback to that action. We will be right back. Tonight on the communicators, this summer marks the 20th anniversary edge anniversary television. In june of 1990, almost exactly 25 years ago, cbs convinced us we should submit it to the sec for consideration of the next generation u. S. Terrestrial broadcast entered. We were not sure we really want to do that because we were satellite and cable guys and did not have a lot to do with the terrestrial broadcast networks news, but we enough doing it. 1990, a sudden in june of our cover was blown, what we were doing. At first everyone said it was impossible, what would proclaiming. But sure enough, a year or so later, all of our competitors were essentially following us and it became a real race. Communicatorsthe at 8 p. M. Eastern on cspan two. Washington journal continues. Host Dave Jamieson has been following this effort by University Football players to do nice. It suffered a major setback last week. Explain what this was and why it is considered such a setback. The players filed a petition for Union Election and the essential argument is that they are employees of the school. The basic idea that a scholarship constitute a form of payment for work rendered. As they noted, there are many requirements that they have as Football Players. There are lots of things they have to do and theres quite a workload that comes along with it. Claim they are employees and they wanted to join a labor union. Setback from the board last week. Originally, a regional director determined that they were employees and gave the green light for election to go forward. This time around, the board in washington one step of simply decline to assert their jurisdiction in the case. The long and the short of it, will notern players unite. They did vote and have an election. Those ballots were in pounded and we will never know what those results were. Amounted to a big god. One lawyer described it as a 75 yard punt that landed on the one yard line and stopped there. The basic question here, whether or not these players are itloyees, basically decided was not in the players interest to assert their jurisdiction. They felt like they would upset the apple cart. From was this a surprise unlv . Did the think they had a liberal majority . Guest yes, they did. Politics a lot of behind it. I cannot speak to what was going through the Board Members mind, but this was potentially politically explosive. You already have members of congress weighing in on this, republicans in particular, saying this could be disastrous if players could unionize. And if Congress Funds the labor board. I think the politics of this would have been very big and it would have brought them whole board under a lot more scrutiny brought the whole board under a lot more scrutiny. Host we are talking with Dave Jamieson with the huffington post. The numbers are on the screen. We would love to get your thoughts on this unionization effort. On these players, who was trying to unionize, what were they trying to bargain for . Guest it is important to point out they were not asking for wages, for money, not at this point anyway. One big concern is scholarships. It is it is a big school, still possible for a player to get hurt playing football or basketball or whatever sport, and then lose their scholarship as a consequence. A lot of people view that as unfair. That was one of the goals of the of the campaign. Medical coverage. A lot of players, not surprisingly, want to know that if they get hurt while he are in while they are playing for their school that if they have lingering medical issues beyond their time at the school, that it will be covered. That was another big issue for them. They were not asking for payment, although a lot of people felt that the possibility of wages entering College Sports was the undercurrent. Host the headline at the , northwestern Football Players wont get a union, but their fight doesnt here. Explain the second part of that headline. Guest it is not the end of the Unionization Efforts in college for all. And it is certainly not the end of the larger legal battles as it relates to pay and general treatment of these athletes. A few things could happen here. Is decliningd jurisdiction, not to get too deeply into the woods, the that it is aue is private school. The board covers the private sector. But the vast majority of schools in bigtime College Sports our Public Schools. Public schools would be subject to the collective bargaining laws in those individual states. So really, you are just talking about handful, along with northwestern, that would be private schools in bigtime football. It could upset things in a broader field where we have no jurisdiction at all, the board set. That was the main reason they decided to step back will stop to step back. Maybe a state will come along collective bargaining rights to athletes. I think it is unlikely. It goes back to politics. Maybe a liberal state like california, there might be that, dispose to doing but the politics of this get very heated. I dont know what governor or what state labor board would really want to way into that wade into that. Host lets get to callers. Davere on the line with jamieson of the huffington post. Caller i think the state of athletics today, at the College Level especially in football, is nothing more, in my view, another cynical form of slavery. There was a former Brown University president who once of the big institutions, ands stop the hypocrisy requirements of in thedemics standards process or declare you are in a. Ro league in which case you did not have to have any standards whatsoever academically, separate locations , the footballs players would live, and then put the product out on the field for what it is. And if they chose to go to class and eventually get a degree in whatever subject matter, fine. But i think that is where it is. To me, mightily Minor Leagues for professional teams, they should be paid. They are treated in the big schools especially as slaves. Host that was john from rhode island. The system that he described there, is that possible in this environment . Guest first, a lot of people share his perspective. A lot of people feel that this idea of amateurism in College Sports is a sham, especially when you are talking about College Football and basketball where you have billions of dollars of revenue coming into these schools. A lot of work goes into putting your football season together. And a lot of people now are feeling like it is kind of ridiculous to argue that when ballgame thatg these players are there to go to class. Atyou are playing football alabama on a huge stage, probably what brought you there was football and not being an economics major. Legal thingser going on where we may end up closer to a system like the one the caller described. There are a lot of other legal thises where eventually could open the door host to some kind of payment. Number two open the door to some kind of payment. Host lets put the numbers to this conversation. Texas, 113f million in revenue in that in. Million dollars. Michigan, 91 million. Lsu, 88 million. Notre dame, 81 million. Auburn, 75 million. Tennessee, 70 million. We are talking to Dave Jamieson, a labor reporter at the huffington post. If you are a college athlete, we would especially like to hear from you. You have your own line. Line, dan isndent waiting in massachusetts. Caller i was curious to know enter schoolsers from high school setting, they they are not paid, but they get tuition paid, if you will, for their ability. Some are free scholarships for the whole term they are there. Ome get small dollar amounts how does that play into being unionized . In the sense that some kid from some Rural High School gets full scholarship, which means they are kind of paying his tuition to play because they feel he is good. What about the average kid where they give him a small piece of the pie and he sits on the bench . How does all of that play into who gets what as a player . Im just throwing numbers out. You know, the august 3000 a week because they are playing in ports, and the guy that is riding the bench being paid less, or the same as someone who was going tole, have a pro career. I have boys that play football and i always say to them, are you one in the 300 that will be put that will be kicked in the draft to go on to play professional ball . And the answer is probably no. Im not sure if being unionized is the way to go. Caller justay the prior to myself coming on saying that theyve got to be there for an education and i think there should be entered and i think it should be public what the they are are and how progressing through college instead of going there and not or being rifled through because he is an unbelievable receiver. Host he brings up a couple of thereabout working your way through a you nice system. . Can you talk through those guest the short answer can you talk through those . Guest the short answer is no, it is difficult to say. Be some kind of pay parity. If it were a Union Contract in place, you would not have individual players bargaining for salaries with their teens. Teams. With their it is different from the fullblown freemarket that a lot of people want to see in College Football. The antitrust case with Sandy Jenkins moving forward, basically they are saying it is illegal to be capping payment at a scholarship under the current system. They are saying the market should be fully wide open so a pair would get a player would get what they are worth in the free market. That is very different than what you would see under a Union Contract. For college line athletes, bernard is waiting. St. Petersburg, florida. Go ahead. Was a former basque about player in college and they basketball player in college and they should pay a stipend. College players have to get up early in the morning, 5 00 a. M. And thengo to practice get breakfast and then after class you go back to practice. And then you are required to get some kind of critical study. These guys are working not just part of the day, but all day, and you are trying to graduate. You cannot work. You dont get any kind of money, especially these athletes whose families cannot help them with their funds. And they see these billions of dollars being paid to these coaches, and where the coaches if you want to move to another school, they can do that without being penalized. The athlete, you cannot do that without sitting out a year. Athletes cannot just make any kind of money to go out to the clubs. They want to have a life outside the classroom, too. Host can i ask you to respond to quagmire on twitter who is saying this is positively ridiculous. Next they will demand a pension plan and Stock Options. A salary. s not about its about having something for these athletes. They see millions of dollars. The guy who said there were jerseys being sold, but they couldnt get any money. Its not about Stock Options or anything. I know i couldnt even take a ride with the coach. I was up in tennessee and im from florida. I could not even ride with the coach who was living in florida home because the ncaa would have penalized me and i would have been kicked out of school. To get thesee athletes some type of stipend not a salary, but something from the millions of dollars that they bring in. Even those who sit on the bench, they do practice. They have to do the same thing that every cap of athlete does. Everybody should receive the same. Host thank you for the call and sharing your experience. Dave jamieson, i will let you jump in. Guest not has not a lot has changed from your experience, bernard. There is still a lot of work that goes into it. One thing that was interesting with this northwestern case is that it really pulled the veil back on what a day to day on what a day is like for student athletes. The person who lead this effort gave really detailed testimony about how much work he puts into a season, doing homework on the bus. He even said he was discouraged from pursuing premed, which is what he wanted to do. These were all part and parcel of the argument that we are performing work here and the scholarship that you are giving us constitutes a form of payment, and therefore we are employees. I think a lot of athletes do feel similar to bernard. And lets face it, bernard, if you went on to play pro ball you did not bring it up, so im guessing you didnt. The majority of these athletes do not end up playing bigtime ball and making lots of money. Host a tweak here. Tweet here. And karen has a question for you. What are the limits of Health Care Benefits for College Players . Injured guest it depends College Players injured . Guest it depends on the school. Down the road, you could still be on the hook for paying for that if you have lingering injuries. Got, aets go to one he republican juanita, a republican. Caller good morning. I have a confession to make one and him at this. In relation to quagmire, he does not know what hes talking about postop talking about. One thing i have not heard mentioned, and that we ohio state people talk about here in cincinnati is the top grossing schools. How many of those schools are southern schools . That is number one. Number two, did he do his how much offind at that money that is generated by the Football Team goes back into university to support other things other than athletics . That is very important. Since its inception, ohio state football is not funded by the state of ohio by one penny. Stadium was not built by the state. In 1922y subscription by the citizens of ohio. To back you up on an argument that a former caller made, these men are not only supporting the , so they department have also allowed the universities to keep Academic Department afloat, and because of that they should be given some consideration. Host i want to give Dave Jamieson a chance to answer some of the questions you brought up. Confession . Had a no, they put me on the wrong line. Go ahead. They generate in response of money for these schools, especially through television rights. That money helps these schools operate. That is the underlying argument that these players and their in talking making about why they should be allowed to unionize, or why there should be some kind of free market to allow for salaries. The idea is that they are generating in a less amounts of revenue for their schools and that helps their schools operate. Many people feel the same way you do, that it is ridiculous to pretend otherwise, that these athletes are not really playing an integral role in helping the schools operate. Host lets go to jay, line for democrats. Good morning. All, this is of such a healthy conversation. Ive got to applaud cspan for using this platform so we can discuss these things. I feel like, yes, absolutely, these College Players should be paid. The yearlyng at revenues of the top schools and one of the questions was, what percentage should they be making . Is it going to be a base of 10 of the annual income, 15 . That the moregree bluechip athletes should get paid a higher percentage as well , because you know just like the bigname athletes, they are the ones who put the butts in the seat. Topic like that is a sub in this. I feel like the elephant in the this is just one flaw that we see in the whole college process. If you want to look at how many with student loans. I know the first column was talking about a form of slavery. You could that, in his ends. In a sense. Andall of these students all of this revenue in the billions is also something to look at. Host i want to give Dave Jamieson a chance to respond. And there is a tweet on the subject of what you were just talking about. Guest one big question about all this, which the caller highlighted, is, what would it end up looking like if colleges were going to pay athletes . What all the would all of the players get the same wage, or would the most valuable ones get a much larger share of the money . What hard to say right now this would look like. , one ofg that the ncaa their arguments in pushing back against this is if you created Something Like a free market, it would force schools to get rid of their underperforming programs. As a lawyer said to me last team someone on the swim probably works just as hard as someone on the Football Team at a bigname school, and i think that is entirely true. Of would get into issues fairness and title ix issues and all sorts of thorny questions. Host the story in the happened to post last week, northwestern Football Players wont get a union, but their fight doesnt end here. You can follow Dave Jamieson on twitter. That is our show for today. Have a great monday. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] we had planned to bring you live coverage of an all days imposing on the 10 Year Anniversary of hurricane katrina. We are having technical issues with our signal from the event, unfortunately. But we are recor