We sit as a jury of 100 to render impartial justice with the chief justice is the Supreme Court presiding as the chief judge. I will administer the oath. To all senators in the chamber in conformance with article one, section three, clause six of the constitution and the Senate Impeachment rule. To be sure no vote would be parted, you take a vote three times to render impartial justice. One as group, then as individual, and the third, you go into the well and you sign the book where i hereby, u. S. Senator from maryland, pledged to render impartial justice in the matter of impeachment. Wow. Your hand shakes with that kind of historical amendment. Host don ritchie, u. S. Senate historian emeritus, we have asked you to spend an hour with us to give us some perspective, to guide us what might happen. Senator mccluskey talks about how important this felt, the job the u. S. Senators were doing. As a whole, as the process gets underway, how should the public think about impeachment . Is it a judicial process, a legal process, a political process . Put it in the largest context. Mr. Ritchie it is all three. It is really a judicial process spelled out very specifically in the constitution as to what the role of the senate and house are in the process. A little more vague is what the charges could be. Also the penalty of being , removed by office by a two thirds vote in the senate. And the senate is a political body and absolutely everything in the senate and congress has dimensions to it. Has some political dimensions to it. The taking the oath and the signing of the book is to remind the senators that it is not everyday politics. It is something different, something a little higher. And certainly having the chief justice presiding on the senate adds a certain degree of gravity. Host what level of federal officials can be subject to impeachment . Mr. Ritchie any level. There is question about if a legislator could be impeached but the house impeached a u. S. Senator in the 1790s but the senate had already expelled them and some thought it was good to hold the trial. It was moot to hold the trial. His lawyers argued because he was a southerner, he was exempt. There is no unnecessary precedent on that. On the other hand both houses of , congress can expel a member by a two thirds vote. Host if you look back at the countrys history, impeachment has been explored in the public sphere for 15 out of the 45 president s. Only three of them have been impeached. Richard nixon resigned. What should the lessons be from those numbers . Mr. Ritchie during the clinton impeachment, senator byrd described impeachment as a damocles that holds over each president. Each president needs to know they are not above the law. Every officer of the government needs to know that that there is a constitutional amendment for removing them from office. Even a federal judge with a lifetime appointment can be removed, and certainly the president of the United States, if they have committed a crime that convinces the majority of the house and two thirds of the senate they are guilty. Host we will look back in history because precedent guides us so much. Give us a quick primer on the three president ial impeachments. We will use a video from the first one from a cspan special on the congress. It is the 1868 impeachment of Andrew Johnson. Lets watch a little bit of that. [video clip] the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson was an absolute sensation. It was for that trial that they first issued gallery tickets for the Senate Chamber. This was the first really public trial that took place. If you look at publications of the day, they are full of wonderful illustrations. Delivering articles of the impeachment into johnsons hand. All of the lawyers lining up into the chamber to make their cases pro and con in the impeachment. It is really just this Society Event of 1868. He has gone against congress and reconstruction policy. They had considered impeachment over and over again and finally in 1868, he did something that gave them an excuse for impeachment. He fired someone without gaining permission to do so from congress. Host that was the voice of betty cohen, the Current Senate historian. What should we know about the johnson impeachment . The Republican House and senate, democratic president. 11 articles of impeachment. What else should we know . Mr. Ritchie johnson was elected in 1864 on a ticket with abraham lincoln. He was one of the only southern senators that did not secede with his state. He was a democrat. Lincoln had a unity party in 1864 and brought him on the ticket. When lincoln was assassinated and johnson became president , the republicans in congress thought they would be their ally. Because they thought he would support them in terms of reconstruction. But he disillusioned them. He vetoed lots of legislation it did not seem concerned about the former slaves of the south. He put himself up as an obstacle to the reconstruction of the south. That went on from 1865 until early 1868. Even though his term was coming to an end that year, the House Republicans rose up and impeached him. They impeached him first and then they went back and drew up the articles of impeachment as to why they were impeaching him. They thought they had a good chance to have him removed in the senate, because more than two thirds of the senators were republicans. The Republican Party was divided between this radical and moderate wings but essentially johnson had united them because they were all so offended by his policies. It went into the senate. Seven republican senators could not bring themselves to vote to remove him. I think the general sense was that his term was coming to an end and if you give him enough rope, he will hang himself and if you remove him, you will have weakened the presidency and the president will also be dependent on a majority in the senate. Will always be depended on my majority in the senate. A bit the way prime ministers in parliament are dependent on having a majority in congress. The independence of the presidency was threatened. So johnson was saved from removal by one single vote in the senate. Host it took until 1974 for the next series impeachment effort against richard nixon. The House Judiciary Committee voted out three articles of impeachment. The president then resigned. What else should we know . Mr. Ritchie i was a graduate student in washington at the time and watergate was fascinating. I remember going to hear john dean testify on the Watergate Committee and i sat on the House Judiciary Committee. I sat in on the House Judiciary Committee. There was a great sense of solemnity to this. This was a serious issue. Serious investigation was underway. Two Political Parties were different at that stage. The republicans and democrats had liberal and conservative wings. Nixon had a lot of opposition from moderate republicans and from liberal republicans and got support from conservative democrats. So it was unclear what his status would be. As the house was voting, the Judiciary Committee is considering voting, the Supreme Court ruled and said the nixon tapes had to be opened. One of the tapes made it pretty clear to anyone who listened that nixon was part of the coverup to hide the crime committed. So it was not so much the crime committed, the breaking into the democratic conference headquarters, but the fact that the president had authorized pushing money to burglars and done Everything Possible to obstruct justice after that. So even some of his strongest supporters in the house backed away and said they would support impeachment. Eventually, a group of senators went up to the white house with the republican candidate from 1964, barry goldwater, and he advised nixon he did not have the votes in the u. S. Senate to sustain himself in an impeachment trial. So the president chose to resign rather than face trial. Senate did not know he would resign. They had spent time writing rules and getting ready to hold a serious impeachment trial. Host so it was 25 years later, 1999, bill clinton faced impeachment. Republican house and senate, democratic president. The house voted out perjury and obstruction of justice and the trial began early january, just like now. What else should we know . Mr. Ritchie it happened at the end of congress and the house of representatives, House Republicans had lost votes in that election. It was not clear what they were about to do. They did not have a big investigation. They depended on the report that was done by Kenneth Starr into the clinton issue. It was thrust on the senate. I remember there was a feeling in the senate, People Holding their breath, hoping it would not come. We in the Historical Office had been doing a lot of research and got the word from on high that it would be better not to make any public statements about this. I think pretty much everybody in the leadership positions of the offices of the senate got the same message. We were waiting to see, hope against hope that the house would not do this. And they did. When they got ready to send the articles of impeachment to the senate, the said it was already adjourned. There was no one there so no one could receive the proceedings. They begin the trial in january but it took them a long time to decide had to go about doing it. How to go about doing it. They would back and looked at rules from 1868 and dug out the rules that had been devised in 1974 when they thought they would hold the trial for nixon. I had done an oral history with floyd riddick, a proletarian of the senate, who spent a lot of the parliamentarian of the senate, who spent a lot of time talking about how they would have held nixons trial. They even put cameras in the galleries because they felt they could not hold an impeachment trial if the public did not have an opportunity to watch. Then there were three judges of the 1980s who were impeached. So rules had been revised and brought up to date. So this was still a unique situation with president ial impeachment and they were going to have to meet first before going into public session, the senators would have to be privately to work out the roles. Host this is the first of the president ial impeachment before a divided congress. What is the import . Mr. Ritchie politics is always a part in this. Even though senators take a vote to be impartial, they cannot take an oath to be impartial they cannot forget their party , or who the president is and which party he belongs to. There is definitely going to be a lot of support among senators for the president of their own party and opposition from the other party. The house managers have to convince people that this is a critical act, not a political this is a criminal act not a , political act, and that it rises to the level of what the constitution defines as an impeachable offense. That has been true regardless of which party controlled which house. In 1999, the republican and Democratic Leaders worked together remarkably well. They wanted the senate to look good and to look more substantial than the house had in its actions and they worked together and there was a lot more bipartisanship than i think anyone thought possible. That unique bipartisan conference in the Old Senate Chamber produced agreement and they voted 1000 on the senate rules. As senator kennedy and senator bill graham of texas concluded, phil graham of texas concluded, they did not have enough agreement to get to home plate but they had enough to get to second base. So they would write the rules to get to second base and once they got there, we would write the they would write the rules to go home. Host in 2020, unlike 1974 and 1999, this is an election year. What does that do to the process . Mr. Ritchie in each of the previous cases, they were in their second terms. Nixon and clinton were constitutionally unable to run for a third term. So it was not going to affect their elections. It might affect the Vice President s and what might happen to them, that this was the first time we have had an impeachment of a president serving in his first term and who is a possible candidate for reelection. We do not know how the public will react. President clinton in 1999 saw his popularity go up. The public thought he was being unfairly treated and he actually came out of impeachment with a better standing in the polls than before. It is not clear if that would work again, but you cannot count in advance with the public reaction will be. Host we will let the constitution guide the rest of our conversation, starting with the most broad designation of power of the two bodies by the constitution. Lets look at what the constitution rights. Article one, section two, the house of representatives shall have the sole power of impeachment. The senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. What was the thinking of the founders that the impeachment stays in the peoples body . Mr. Ritchie the house initially was the only part again that was elected by the people. The president was elected by the electoral college. Still is. Senators were elected by state legislator in those days. So there is the sense the peoples body should decide whether or not someone should be impeached. Impeachment is a form of indictment. Like a grand jury. Then they would go to the senate to hold the trial. But the constitution specifies senators must vote two thirds to remove someone from office. The constitution uses two thirds on a number of occasions to ratify treaties and overturning vetoes. They wanted super majorities in certain cases so it was not strictly a oneparty action. You had to prove your case. You had to convince enough senators to get on board. So that meant you had different requirements, different standards in the house and senate. In the last 200 years, the partyline vote in the house has never produced a bipartisan vote. If there is a partyline vote in the house there will likely be a partyline vote in the senate. The exception is when we have had judges that were overwhelmingly condemned in the house by more than two thirds of the house members. When it came to the senate, they heard evidence and a large enough to thirds majority of senators voted to remove the judges from office. So the numbers are different in the house and senate, but there is an impact. Host we saw how broad the the language is in the constitution. Since the house voted in late december to impeach the president , there has been a standoff between the two bodies. Speaker pelosi and mitch mcconnell. What leverage does each body have over the other . Mr. Ritchie senator mcconnell basically said they have no leverage and the senate never felt the house had leverage. The house regularly passes bills that never go anywhere in the senate. They are in a position to frustrate each other. There are instances where the house is perturbed about the senate but there is nothing they can do. Right now, we are in a Twilight Zone in between and that is partly because the constitution is more specific about impeachment than it is about most things but it does not say everything. It leaves questions as to when will the articles of impeachment be presented, to whom, how. In the past, it has gone pretty quickly. With clinton, it went so quickly the senate was not even in session when articles were said. This is something for the leaders of the houses to wrangle with each other about. Im not sure i would use the word leverage, but i think it is a tactic that the speaker is using in this case. In one way, it stopped a very quick trial from being held in december, which was what was intimated by the senate at one point. So perhaps the tactic is to stretch proceedings. There are certainly things the house managers want to be able to do and they want the rules of the Senate Proceedings to satisfy them. In 1999, the house managers assumed because republicans were the majority in the senate, they were naturally write the rules to favor them, and they didnt. They were very fair and impartial rules. House managers were furious and talked about having to climb up Mount Olympus to get to the senate because the senate was treating itself more loosely. Ly. Aloof host since the current wrangling is over rules and you told us in 1999 it was the same process, we have another video clip. This is two former senators in office during the clinton impeachment. They talk about the wrangling. Lets listen. [video clip] these important meetings that rick and i had, in the Old Senate Chamber, no staff or family. Just 100 of us in the room. Several days before the trial began in the senate. We decided we were on trial. We needed to conduct ourselves well. The world was watching how we do this. Not to mention the american i feel very proud of the fact that we found a middle ground. Not everything the house wanted in a trial or everything the Democratic Base wanted, to just not give any recognition of the house, vote it down. People say it is so contentious now. It was contentious then. But leaders were able to lead and get their caucus to go along. Host we are hearing this time it might be a partyline vote. What is the difference. Mr. Ritchie there was a great sense of relief when the senate voted and the senators came up unanimously with a set of rules. They returned the dignity of the senate. The appearance of what they were doing. If you voted the party voted to , if you vote on a party line it reminds people it is a partisan institution. Senator byrd was the most concerned of any senator about the image of the u. S. Senate. He spoke at the beginning of the closed door session in the Old Senate Chamber about why impeachment was so important and serious and why senators had to read the oath they had taken about being impartial and take it seriously. He gave an impassioned speech at the beginning of the session. It helped. Senators cited that is helping them reach agreement. Senator byrd issued a motion to dismiss the case halfway through. Everyone thought, maybe hes doing this to protect clinton. Senator byrd said he was doing it to protect the senate. He said what we are getting is dueling press conferences by the parties and we are looking partisan. He deplored polarized politics. The senate voted down the motion to dismiss. But i got people back into the into the got back seriousness of the trial as well. Host we are already seeing reports of the press someone could move to dismiss. Right at the beginning. Mr. Ritchie senate would have to consider with the public reaction would be. Host once Speaker Pelosi transmits the articles of impeachment, what is the house process . Mr. Ritchie the house becomes the managers of the bill. It will send over several house members to argue the case. In 1999, henry hyde, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, thought the house Legal Counsel could make the case. The Historical Office, the library, we all researched on behalf of leadership and none of us could find any instance where anybody other than the house had made a case on the floor. So the house had to change tactics and strategies. Seven house members made presentations. They had 24 hours to make the case and then the Senate Lawyers would have 24 hours. It is down to the managers of the case representing. The will of the house of representatives. Host one of the managers in 1999 was lindsey graham. Now senator graham. He has been outspoken on the process. Altogether there are 27 members of the u. S. Senate in office. Is that number surprising . Mr. Ritchie it is surprising that it was just 21 years ago and so many senators are new to the senate. 63 senators are new to the senate. This shows how quickly the senate seats are turning over these days. I would suspect a much larger percentage of senators in 1999 had been there in 1974. People tended to stay longer. This is a very new process for the majority of senators. For others, it is, here we go again. Theyve been through the process. Senators have to spend a lot of time in their seats being quiet. Not what they like to do. The president chooses his defense. He could defend himself but president s lawyers have advised not to come because you do not want to inflame the situation. So the president stays away and send Legal Counsel. They can be a mix of people. I think the greatest speech given in the 99 trial was given by a former senator, dale bumpers, who had left the senate before. He came back and gave a magnificent speech that helped clinton and the democrats stay united on the case. It was also a funny speech. You do not think there would be humor in the midst of a serious trial but senator bumpers had a good southern sense of humor and issued a famous line where he said, when people say it is not about money, its about money. When they say it is not about sex, it is about sex. Host people can watch that speech on the cspan library. Mitch mcconnell has declared his position on the trial and intent to dispose of it quickly. And we have learned he has been meeting with the white house to walk them through the stages of the trial. Does that have Historical Impact . Mr. Ritchie Andrew Jackson did not have any support. Andrew johnson did not have any support. There were no majority leaders but there were some senators more equal than others who took the lead. But johnson had supporters among the settlers and lobbyists who among the senators and he had lobbyists who were coming up regularly trying to coordinate his side of the story. Senator daschle worked closely with senator lott to keep proceedings fair. But Democratic Leadership was in contact with the democratic president about what was happening and keeping them informed. And keeping him informed. You cannot remove the politics from the process. Even though it is also a judicial process and they take an oath to be impartial. Host once the trial gets underway, do the Party Leaders have any specific role . Mr. Ritchie majority leader will continue to make motions and suggest a recess or when they will come back. He will be rising occasionally. Other senators are not to speak. They send written questions to be answered. The majority leader has an occasional reference. In 1999, senator lott at one point tried to adjourn for the day and chief Justice Rehnquist was getting impatient and said he wanted to continue longer and senator lott realized as i that as majority leader, he was now second to the presiding officer. Host one detail on that motion to dismiss. It would be a simple majority vote . Mr. Ritchie there is no filibustering inside the impeachment. So in a vote would be a simple majority vote. The final vote has to be two thirds vote. Host we have known about the impeachment process since the fall. When did senate start getting ready . Mr. Ritchie i cannot say for sure, but i would say the last time around, people were getting ready long before he came to the senate. Before it came to the senate. As soon as it became clear the house was about to act, everyone in the senate began preparing. I would suspect the historians, librarians, library of congress are fully prepared to answer any questions senators would have. That was our role last time. Answering thousands of questions inside the senate and from the media and public. So i am sure they are fully prepared for whatever will happen. Host the main role would be communicating with the majority and minority Leaders Office because they will be negotiating rules . Mr. Ritchie exactly. Senators contact us, as well. Senators understood this was a historic moment and they had questions. One senator on his way to a press conference called us from his car because he was concerned about a question he thought would come up and he wanted to make sure he got the answer correctly when he got there. In the senate in general, we all tend to respond to the leadership because they are in charge and the ones calling the shots. Host back to the constitution, we have talked about this a bit. When sitting for that purpose, impeachment, the constitution says they shall be on oath or affirmation and no person set shall be convicted without the conference of two thirds president. Without the concurrence of the two thirds present. Lets go back to the oath they take in 1999. [video clip] will all senators stand and raise their hand . I will administer the oath. Will all senators stand and raise your right hand . Do you solemnly swear that in all things in the impeachment of william clinton, now pending, deal impartial justice according to the constitution and laws, so help you god . The clerk will call the names and record the response. Every single of the United States takes an oh so why is there a special oath for this . Mr. Ritchie every Single Member takes an oath when they take office. So why a special oath for this . Mr. Ritchie the constitution requires that and requires it be different than the oath they take. The constitution spells out the oath the president takes but the oath the Congress Takes is not written. There is a sense this is something different. It is not a legislative day. Senator thurman was stepping aside. And the chief justice was presiding. This is to remind everyone that this is not the daily political business of the senate. It is a trial and they are in a sense not completely jurors but not completely senators. They are both and they have to keep it in mind. This is one way of trying to impress this. Host any other vote that happens along the way in the trial is a simple majority . Mr. Ritchie right. And theres a possibility they might bar the person if they they might take a vote to bar the person if they have been removed, they could bar them from ever Holding Office again. They have not done that consistently. One member of the house of representatives now was impeached and removed as a federal judge and then went back home and ran for congress and is still serving in congress. Host we have seen this in the video, the constitution says when a president is tried, the chief justice shall preside. Different than when other officers are impeached. Is this the only time we have a president on trial tried by the members of the house with the majority being in the senate and presented by the chief justice, is this the only time the process all three coequal branches function together . Mr. Ritchie they come together for a state of the union and inaugurations and funerals. And there are occasions when the president will nominate a Supreme Court justice and the Vice President might be setting up to break a tie on the vote. Those are more routine situations. This is the one time where the cross the line. The constitution forbids anyone from serving in more than one branch of government at the same time with the sole exception of the Vice President , who is the president of the senate. It was a long question as to whether he was part of the legislative or executive branch and the Vice President has migrated away from legislator down to executive. Other than that, we have separation of power so to have the chief justice come across the street with his ceremonial robe which chief Justice Rehnquist doctored up with gold which was influenced by gilbert and sullivan performance, he came over to preside and he had read the book about the Andrew Johnson impeachment. He was wellversed in what they had done in 1868 and thought they would play the same role. The parliamentarians at the senate had to explain to him that things had changed in the senate in the century between then and now and they said the presiding office of the senate is not a powerful position. The senate is from the floor or is ruled from the floor or not from the chair and parliamentarians advised the presiding officer and what to do and they can even turn off his microphone where they can tell him what to do. If he deviates from that, he can be voted down by a simple majority in the senate. Chase was voted down on this and chief Justice Rehnquist pondered this and realize they were right and performed very well as presiding officer. He got into the spirit of what he could and could not do. He got high marks from senators. Afterwards, he apparently said i did nothing but i did it very well. Host going back to the point. Of the Vice President being a member of the senate did al gore , sit in . Mr. Ritchie no. He can preside under the senate at any other occasion but if they remove the president , the person to benefit is the Vice President so that is why the chief justice presides. Vice president gore did not attend proceedings. In 1868, the president proved of the senate was a senator from ohio and he was there to become president if they removed Andrew Johnson. Because there was no Vice President. Johnson had moved from the vice presidency after the lincoln assassination. The president pro temperate in the senate was next in line and he was there an active and voted. A lot of people thought he should have recused himself but he really wanted Andrew Johnson out of office. He would have benefited the most. Host if any senators objected to the chief justice ruling, what is the process . Mr. Ritchie they can object and there can be a vote just as with any other occasion. The clerk will call the roll. If a majority vote against him the ruling of the chair would be overturned. Host Justice Roberts in 1999 was a clerk and now responsible for presiding over the trial. Has the Supreme Court told us anything about the preparation they are making . Mr. Ritchie not really that i know of. He is very aware of what happened the last time. The senate went on their way to accommodate chief Justice Rehnquist. They provided the president s room just off the Senate Chamber for him to go to and take breaks. But he had a bad back. He told them at the beginning. He had to stand up occasionally. It is not out of disrespect to the senators, but from time to time they realized he was getting tired and they took a break so he could step aside into the room. He brought over the chief Administrative Officer for the Supreme Court as his assistant. Otherwise, it is just a matter of coming across the street to preside. Host will the court be in session while this is happening . They were the last time. Mr. Ritchie i believe they were. Host will the senate be doing other business while this is happening . Mr. Ritchie most likely not. The senate can write their own rules and do their own thing but they like to operate on precedent. If there is a precedent, they can say, we have done it this way before. But they can rewrite rules if they want to. So it is hard to predict what the senate will do. The likelihood is they will follow what they did last time and suspend legislative business during the trial, but if they decide to do differently, they will. Host based on past precedent, how long to the last one taken what might we expect . How long did the last trial taken what we can we expect . Mr. Ritchie the Andrew Johnson trial lasted months. March until may. Newspaper reporters who covered the trial said it was so hectic and demanding that the tensions were so high, if given a choice, we would rather cover the gettysburg battle again rather than impeachment. It wore people out and disillusioned people in both sides of the case and undermined the faith in government. The clinton trial was more abridged. Midjanuary to early february. It was a long time, but not near Andrew Johnsons. I do not think it surprised anyone at the end as it came out. I do not think it disillusioned people the same way that the early one had. It focused a lot of attention. The public can be both interested and Pay Attention, and get bored quickly and lose interest and say, why are they doing this . You never know what the Public Opinion will be. There are more ways for the public to Pay Attention this time. Coverage is complete. You will not be shut out. In the Andrew Johnson trial, so many people wanted to get into the capital that for the first time they had to print tickets to let you into the galleries. We still print tickets. And we printed special tickets for the clinton impeachment trial. The nixon trial would have had a tv camera if it had taken place. Cspan was in business during the clinton trial. Host will the Senate Chamber look different during the trial . Mr. Ritchie much more crowded. Two big tables. Instead of the open well in front of the presiding officer. There will be one for house managers and one for president s lawyers. Galleries will be packed. Including the press gallery. Whenever i go into the Senate Chamber i look at the press gallery. There might be two or three people sitting there because people can watch proceedings on television. They dont have to be there. When you go into an impeachment trial, every seat is taken and the press gallery is standing room only. People are packed in. In the clinton trial, we had a whole new group of reporters show up. Internet reporters. Many had never been in the u. S. Capitol building before even though they covered congress. So the press gallery asked me to take them on a tour through the building. I had 20 internet reporters that i took around and showed various places. They went to work on the trial. The reporters who were there all the time complained the internet reporters were taking their seats and talking on their phones and getting in the way. But they were not regulars in the gallery. So there will be a lot of people coming up to see the historical event who will not be regulars. Host and attention will be international. Mr. Ritchie exactly. Streaming and everyone watching. The ability to do this is so much greater now. Host organizations like ours must have credentials from the house and senate to cover events. With widespread interest, how do you manage all the people who would like to cover . Mr. Ritchie it is very difficult. The galleries are run by committees of correspondence so the press themselves elects people to decide what rules will be. And issue press passes. It is not the government deciding, it is the press. They will do Everything Possible to accommodate as many as possible. There will be overflow rooms. Im sure they will be making space in the basement for people. They will have to decide where cameras can be placed outside the chamber. And these days, everyone can film with an electronic device. The senate has a rule against using Electronic Devices in the chamber. One hopes everyone will live up to that. There will be lots of problems trying to figure out how to fit everybody who wants to be there into the building with limited space. Host no senators will be tweeting from the floor of the trial. Mr. Ritchie there is a sign before you go in reminding people Electronic Devices are not permitted. From time to time, i have been told they have gotten complaints from viewers of cspan that presiding members of the senate were tweeting under their desks. They are not supposed to but senators are trying to maximize their time. Host with regard to tickets for the public, people are thinking they want to be part of history. They will be in high demand. How are they allocated and how long can you stay with the ticket . Mr. Ritchie once you get into the chamber, you can stay as long as you tolerate it. I am not sure if they will have a section that rotates on a 20 minute basis were not. Usually, once you have a ticket, you are in. But everything is done by members offices and probably senators will be distributing tickets and the house will get some, there will be varieties of ways of doing this. In most cases dealing with congress the best thing to do is to contact your Congress Member if youre interested in getting a ticket. Host what portion will be open and what portion behind closed doors . Mr. Ritchie probably almost everything will be in open session. They have written the rules for the impeachment. There is a push to make everything as public as possible. The one exception in 1999 was the last part of the proceedings in which the senators meeting on the Current Chamber close the doors and turn off cameras and each stood up and gave their summation of how they would vote. Those were off the record in closeddoor session. Senators at the time complained and tried to open the doors. They couldnt convince the rest of the senators to go along with it. When the proceedings were over, they published all the speeches. I am not sure any senator declined to have their speech public. Host the off the record of speeches were impactful. It surprised me there was a special book for the impeachment. Mr. Ritchie there are four volumes on the impeachment. Just the speeches the senators gave in that final closeddoor session. Host who publishes it . Mr. Ritchie published like any other record of the senate and looks like the other records. Its the government renting office. All the volumes were dedicated to scott bates, the clerk of the senate at the time. The man who called roll who was unfortunately killed in a hitandrun accident in the middle of the trial. They stopped and draped his chair with black and had flowers and everyone went to his funeral. He was a beloved person in the senate. It added to the gravity of the occasion and it was a very nice gesture that they dedicated the publication to him. Host lets move on to the outcomes of this. The senate votes in the vote will be an open session. Lets turn to the constitution for what it says. It says the president , Vice President and civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You said at the outset it was not a great deal of definition around the terms. What is the role of the prosecutors . Mr. Ritchie they have to convince senators that the offense, the level of offense rises to impeachment. That is what they spent most of their time talking about in the clinton case. He lied under oath, he had had an affair, and it was a personal disgrace, but doesnt rise to but does rise to the level of impeachment . When the authors of the constitution were working on impeachment, they started with bribery and treason. Then the question is, can you lift the other possible crimes that might be impeachable offenses . I was once at the library in new york and they had a copy of the working draft of the constitution delegates were working from and there was an empty space after high crimes and misdemeanors. So they tapped into british common law and came up with the british term of high crimes and misdemeanors. It suggests something serious but amorphous so something you have not anticipated might fit into it. It is up to the prosecutors to convince the senators that a high crime or misdemeanor has been committed and this is a serious offense. Host when senators cast their vote, they are doing what . Mr. Ritchie deciding whether or not they have been convinced that the crime fits the constitutional requirement. Senator specter from pennsylvania voted not proven rather than not guilty or guilty. It was an old scottish version of saying, i am not convinced, but you have not proven your case. It confused the clerks. Essentially, you are voting guilty or innocence of the charges. And if it has to be two thirds of the senators to remove a person from office, there is no other penalty that comes with it. No jail term. You might be tried separately for the crime. President ford pardoned president nixon just in case any legal actions were against him. They did not want the president to go to trial or possibly go to prison. But impeachment does not do that. Just immediately removes the person from office and then Vice President is sworn in. Host lets put the language from the constitution here to close this out. Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal of office, disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States. But the party convicted shall be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment according to the law. If the president is acquitted, it becomes a political impact. You referred to that earlier. Lets talk about the impact. Mr. Ritchie there is a political way of being impeached. Andrew johnson would have liked to have been nominated. By that point the democrats were his party and he would have been interested in taking the nomination that he did not get. But did not get it. He was elected to the senate but again and came back to the senate in the 1870s and was unabashedly in support of his own policies. He served a short term in the inted states scented foam the United States senate. Nixon was forced to resign from office and spent the rest of his life trying to justify himself and wrote a lot of books, gave Long Television interviews. Clinton finished his term, continued to serve and in the middle of the trial came up and gave the state of the Union Message as if nothing was going on. Surprised everyone on capitol hill. His standing in the polls went up. Likelihood is his impeachment did not help his Vice President gore. This probably complicated his wifes attempts to run for president. Senator byrd made a statement. It is a stain that persists. He was a great institutionalist who believed in the senate and defended the senate and was torn. He despised president clintons behavior but did not think it rose to an impeachable offense. He wanted senators to take it as seriously as possible but did not want the white house to celebrate because he thought the vote was a foregone conclusion. He said, let there be no preening, posturing, or gloating on the white house lawn. The house has inflicted upon the president the greatest condemnation they can inflict on any president. Impeachment. That was an indelible judgment which can never be withdrawn. It will run throughout the pages of history and its deep stain can never be eradicated from the eyes and memories of man. God can forgive us all but history may not. Host what is a prevailing memory of that experience . Mr. Ritchie i was very proud of the senate at the time. I thought they rose to the occasion. It was given a very difficult assignment. Senators were very torn. They did it with the great dignity and restraint. They made the institution stand a little taller afterwards. I think that is something, taking that oath of office and seeing it as a juror helps to add a bit of solemnity to get senators beyond the daytoday politics. Host you bear the title historian emeritus. How many years were you there . Mr. Ritchie almost 30 and enjoyed every day. I was there from the end of the nixon period right until the current day and i have seen a lot happen. I was there in 1976 through to the current day. Host do you miss being there when this is going on . Mr. Ritchie yes i know. Yes and no. My successors do a wonderful job. Are doing as wonderful job. I remember betty cohen had just joined our office during the impeachment trial and baker and i said it would be quiet, senate was going into recess and you will have time to learn on the job and a week later, the house impeached the president and the phone began to ring. It was before the internet made it easy to do research so people would call us with messages. Within one week, betty was fielding questions on censure and impeachment. It was a great way to learn, trial by fire. Like being thrown into the deep end of the pool and being forced to swim. I am glad i do not have to go through that again. Host donald ritchie, thank you so much for this hour and giving us an understanding of what the senate is about to undertake over the next few weeks. We appreciate your time. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer all q a programs are available on our website or as a podcast at cspan. Org. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] next sunday, we will focus on the upcoming New Hampshire president ial primary and the discussion with joseph mcquade. The publisher of the New Hampshire union leader talks about the first in the nation president ial primary and the impact of the years. Over the years that is next sunday night at 8 00 eastern and pacific on cspan. Heres whats coming up today on cspan. Our three hour Washington Journal Program is next. At 10 30 a. M. Come a live preview of taiwans Upcoming Elections and how they could affect relations with the u. S. And the house of representatives returns to legislative work at 2 p. M. Eastern with a debate on veterans, trade, and cybersecurity bills. The impeachment of president trump, this week the house will e on impeachment matters managers, sending impeachment articles to the senate. This morning, a reporters roundtable looking at the week ahead in washington with politico and the los angeles times. A Columbia University professor talks about the impact of u. S. Iran relations on oil prices and we will hear from the director of the Selective Services on how the military draft