Cspan. Org debates or listen live on the cspan radio app. Wilson,e back with rick the cofounder of the Lincoln Project. Why hisre to discuss group process President Trumps reelection. Good morning. Good morning. How are you today . Ps reelection. How are you doing . Guest i am good. Host remind us of the purpose of the Lincoln Project and for the viewers who want to know, where do you get your funding . Guest are funding comes from the National Grassroots with over 500,000 donors. We have a few major donors trade almost all of our fundraising as come through small dollar donations and people who want a voice that is able to attack donald trump and able to go after his campaign in a way that many others cannot. We are a group of former republicans and folks who were driven out of the donald trump iteration of the Republican Party for a host of reasons. Primarily because he has conservative principles. He is governing as more of an authoritative statist. We look at this election as a threat to the future of this country great it was our moral and political obligation to do something about it. Host you described yourself as a former republican strategist. Does that also mean you are a former republican . Do you still consider yourself to be part of the Republican Party . Guest i am a nonparty affiliate in the state of florida. I wanted to vote against trump twice. I cannot be part of a party right now that represents the lavish corruption, the over cruelty and the inherent statism and the other characteristics that donald trump has transformed what was once a party of ideas and ideals into. Onceepublican party involved a whole cluster of principles, individual liberty, the rule of law, adhering to the constitution. None of those things are central to trumpism. All of those things the rule of law is a joke to trump. The constitution is a vague guideline to trump. The idea that constitutional liberty is a limit on executive power are immaculate to trump. He believes in the expansive power of the state and government. The oldschool conservatism i grew up with was not that. Aboutwhat needs to change the Republican Party . Or is your argument just with President Trump or is it with the entire Republican Party right now . If the Republican Party in anything except donald trump, we could have a conversation. Look at the convention. It is not a platform anymore, it is are you loyal to donald trump . That is the definition of the Republican Party. There is no philosophical underpinning to the party at all. Look at any member of the party. Any Single Person in the elected office today, if they said i believe in x and donald trump said i believe in y, x is stupid, they would abandon x in a millisecond. Look at ted cruz, marco rubio. All of these people who were so rigidly inherent to the constitution, every time donald trump chapels over it, it is not how dare you sir, stop. It is yes, may i have some more. Ae party itself has taken poison pill with donald trump. They got a sugar high with the camping season of 2016, ever since then the party has been in rapid decline across the board. It has shrunken. Over 700 seats have been lost in various levels from congress down. There is Great Electoral peril this year. There is philosophical and political peril. It does not end. Everything trump touches dies. I mentioned it facetiously. Now it has taken on a grim and horrible truth. Host being against President Trump does not automatically mean that you are for joe biden. Does your Group Support joe bidens candidacy for president . Guest yes. We have endorsed joe biden. I support joe biden and will vote for joe biden. I will tell you why. It is not because i have to agree with every single one of his political philosophies or policy proposals. Not at all. It is because it is the difference between a good man and a bad man. It is between the choice of a man who will manage covid and one will mismanage covid. One who has an adherence to american rinse. Someone who has adherence to his own greed. I am voting for joe biden. There particular areas where you disagree with joe biden, even though you said that you know there are areas where you do not agree with him. Are there any particular areas about his platform that concerns you as a former republican . Guest here is the thing that people mistake about what will happen when joe biden becomes president. I think there will be some massive they think there will be some massive ideological shifts. They are wrong. In the center. The first two or three or four years of joe bidens term will not involve a green yield deal Green New Deal or something else, they will undo the damage that donald trump has done to this country. We have to get the pandemic under control and face it as a nation. That will require the vast majority of his leadership in the future. Donald trump has proven to us that he cannot succeed in managing this pandemic. He has proven he does not care. He will lie. He will deceive. He will delay. He will give deals to his friends and his supporters. This is not a solution for someone who something that has killed 200,000 americans. Whatever joe bidens policies end up being, i suspect they will be a lot more in the broad tradition of american governance than Donald Trumps wild excesses. Host lets get some of the viewers involved in the conversation. We will open up special lines for the segment. Our first line will be for republicans, who oppose President Trump. If you are a republican who opposes President Trump, you want to hear from you at 202 7488000. If you are a republican supporting President Trump, once again, republicans who support President Trump, your line will be 202 7488001. Everyone else, we want to hear from you as well. Your number will be 202 7488002. Atp in mind, you can text us 202 7488003. We are always reading on social media on twitter, at cspan wj and on facebook at facebook. Com cspan. Rick, one of the big conversations during the Campaign Cycle has been the Lincoln Project commercials, where they show up whether they show up online or in emails or on television. Can you tell us how much you campaignpend on advertisement in this election cycle . About 90 have devoted of our resources, maybe a little higher to voter contact. Whether it is digital broadcast or other outreach. You will see in the closing 30 days of this campaign, a fairly massive investment in a number of markets both in the president ial site and the senate side. While we do not give out daytoday tallies, you could probably expect to see 30 million of spending in the next few weeks. Host rick, this is a question that comes up often. If joe biden wins the president ial election, will you go back to being a republican or have you made a permanent break from the Republican Party . Guest that is so far in the future right now. There is no Republican Party to speak of right now, there is the donald trump party. I think that there needs to be a party that focuses on free markets and fair trade, but i do not think that the current republican will shake off trumpism very quickly. It will have to learn lessons about the political costs of abandoning every principle you claim to believe in and moving into this era where you are a personality cult rather than a political party. Host one day i have not asked is about the New York Times story that says that President Trump has paid 750 in taxes in 2016 and 2017, after he became president. What is your opinion on that story . Guest how is anyone surprised . I wrote in my first book a recollection of a conversation i had in 2015 with a new york billionaire, and he leaned back in his chair, and he goes, he will not spend his own money. He is not a billionaire, he is a clown living on credit. That was a great story because it was revelatory about what people actually knew about donald trump. The fact he has been involved in a multiyear scheme to maximize deductions for things like 70,000 worth of hair cuts should not surprise no one. He does not believe the law applies to him. And he has built a gigantic scheme, i will not say a fraud, because i am not an attorney. I do not know if that is the correct term here, but he has built a tax avoidance scheme that if any other candidate was doing it, he would be attacking them with hammer and tongs. Host we havent yet talked about his Current Supreme Court barrett, whoconey will be going to capitol hill this week to start meeting with republican senators. How does the president making this nomination so close to election day affect the election . Guest i think it will affect ie election in a big way and think it will be bad for cory gardner, Susan Collins, and probably dan sullivan and alaska, all more or less prochoice states, except for South Carolina, a different chemistry there, but arizona, aine, it has m turned the election in those states to a single or issue. It speaks to the care of these republicans, who say they are independents, but are not. I think that the nomination will lead to a scramble in the senate. I think it blew up one of the plans they had to turn the fall into their where ron johnson was going to have a ukraine palouse a to attack john byron palooza to attack joe biden. I think Mitch Mcconnell will pay a price for this. He may lose his majority because of this. At the Lincoln Project, the garwin rule, established by the republicans, should have been applied here, and the nomination should have been made by the person who wins the election. At that point, we wouldve had a different chemistry in the country, one way or another. This race will fundamentally be a referendum on donald trump, not on his nominee. From lets start with kim tennessee. Good morning. Caller can you hear me . Host we can, go ahead. Was afirst of all, nonpolitician because our system does know longer represent we the people, it represents the rich. We have gotten distracted with the republicans and democrats again. Doesnt anybody know how fast donald trump does anything . Artist,n, like a con gone by the time the guy realizes he has been cheated. Are tryingn people to get more. And the programs we think protect us in government, like the eta, fta, medicare, fema, they are talking about how expensive it is. They are fighting it. Whitecollar criminals do not go get prosecuted and go to prison like we do, when we are just trying to feed her families. In prisons where cca is making a profit off of keeping us there. And criminals lose the right to have hardear arms, time getting employment and housing, and so on. People are distracted by the little tax cut, the minimum wage has not gone up. Andknow, he is even went in cleared out the projects of people that, you know, our foreign, the dogs and murderers ok, those of the people that help our economy. I am so mad. Im so mad. Host go ahead and respond. Guest i think a lot of americans ha elected donald trumpve lot of americans elected donald trump because they thought he would be this uncorruptible, wealthy guy. He is ultimately corruptible and corrupted. I think when we are done with this president , one thing that can happen, and once joe biden gets daylight on covid, we need to do ethics reform. We need to do a reform of civil service, a reform of the Voting Rights act. These are things we can look at on how to empower the country again that are not ideologically driven, but rather are meant to strengthen our small democratic systems and small republican governments. Host lets go to randy, calling from williamsburg, virginia. He is a supporter of President Trump. Good morning. Caller good morning, america. I have a question, since you say you are a republican against donald trump. That is great for you, not for anybody else. I am glad that you have come to that decision. But just to compare, in virginia, you know our governor, governor northam, a democrat, had every single democrat in the state legislature, local, politician mark warner, tim kaine, tell our governor to resign for six months. And six months after that, a year later, all those same people were taking his campaign donations. So, you and your group are not unlike that. We that support america, we want change. Donald trump is the tip of that spear. You have a great day. Aest the reason you have democratic majority in virginia is because of donald trump, because he is a political poison. The reason there are democrats and majority situations, the Virginia Legislature right now, donald trump. The governors office, donald trump. Enjoy the illusion you are at the tip of change, but you are at the tip of an influence that is destroying the ability to govern states. You have bought the ticket, you are taking the ride. Host one of your more recent ads targets Lindsey Graham of South Carolina over scotus nominations. I want the viewers to see that, and then you talk about it. [video clip] i am a conservative, i want conservatives on the court. N opening comes in the last year President Trumps term, and the primary process is started, we will wait until the next election. I want you to use my words against me. You are on the record. Hold the tape. Lindsay must go. The Lincoln Project is responsible for the content of this ad. Host why did you make that ad . Guest to point out that Lindsey Graham has always been a political parasite and a flipflopper, somebody who is not consistent in his word. He is not consistent while holding up his oath of office. And he is not honest. Lindsey graham has become a target of the Lincoln Project and other groups for a big reason. In South Carolina, a state that the president should be comfortable ahead in, he is only ahead by four or five points. Lindsey graham, who should comfortably hold that seat, is behind in some polling. We believe that he is one of the chief enablers of donald trump, one of the people that has been the most corrosive and destructive to the Republican Partys ability to hold onto its principles because he has sold out a donald trump. And so, lindsay deserves everything that comes at him. And he deserves the scrutiny that the Lincoln Project and other groups are bringing on his character and his positions. Promiseshear political alike that all the time, so what is the difference between those in the past and people making political promises now . Guest Lindsey Graham is a particular flavor of hypocrisy. He is a man who not only ran a Vicious Campaign against donald trump, but prior to that was the wing man of john mccain for decades. Betrayal of both that and that relationship he had with john mccain, which created his career, and the scope of Lindsey Grahams flipflop on donald trump, in order to become his minion and golf caddie, we think that those things are outliers, even among the normal range of political promises being broken. Host lets go back to the phone lines to talk with jane from north carolina. Jane opposes President Trump. Good morning. Caller good morning. I would like you to comment on i feel like the party has left me, i did not leave the party. I remember when we used to stand for things, like, you know, character. We used to criticize liberals for their situational ethics. Then i hear over the weekend, the former secretary of state saying donald trump might be crazy, but at least he is one of us. I think that is why i am not a republican anymore, because we do not stand for anything. Anyway, thank you for the work you are doing at the Lincoln Project. My husband and i are both lincoln voters. You have a good day. Guest i appreciate that. I think that is a point that is often lost on people. We understand how difficult it is to leave the tribal campfire of your party. We understand it. We have all experienced it. All the folks supporting us. It is difficult, but it also lets you sleep at night, it gives you clarity on the fact you will not have to be a part of owning Donald Trumps criminality, corruption and cruelty and everything else. Host lets go to michael calling from san diego, california. He opposes President Trump. Good morning. Caller i would like to thank cspan for giving americans a place to vent our opinions. Helpingo thank rick for to form the Lincoln Project, and everybody else involved with it, because you folks are correct, in my opinion, that this man is the worst president in the history of the u. S. , as he would like to say. And it is funny you should mention Lindsey Graham. I tried to call him and leave a message to say that every time he says that him and john mccain were good friends, he disgraces the memory of john mccain. I hope that you folks can do your job well and get this man out of office. Thank you. Guest we are doing our best every day. And we are going to keep swinging until the very last. Host not every republican is with you. Guest no. Host many folks, one person actually wrote this about the Lincoln Project. I will have you respond to this. The Lincoln Project has no future if its objective is to remake the post Trump American Party in its image. American voters did not want what they were selling before donald trump, and they certainly will not want it afterwards. Centerright voters are seeking eopulist conservatism and th only purpose of the goodwill be to elected democrats now and in the future. There is a name for people who want to do that, democrats. Guest that is a fallacious and shallow argument that is not unexpected from people in d. C. , like henry, who have basically understood that their donations flow to the hands of donald trump. You can kill off any organization by saying, i do not like this group anymore, they are not nice to me. Henry has to learn a lesson about politics. He is a policy guide, not a political guy. The flavor we were selling to help elect officeholders over 20 years, if you look at the arc of how the party was successful in expanding, not contracting. If you become a party of white nationalists grievance, you will contract. The Republican Party has done exactly that. It has shown in the last several that like a collapsing star, it may be hotter, but it is smaller. You cannot win the base of only the Republican Party, you cannot win with a party that is driving its Political Energy for 55yearold, noncollegeeducated white men. You have to be better and bigger. The more you abandon the principles of expensive conservativism and optimistic conservatism, because trumpism is a dark interpretation of america, the less you have the ability to sell that vision. I disagree with henry vehemently. What he does not understand is centerright nationalist populism is not conservatism. If you want to be a white, nationalist populist, go do it, but that is not conservatism, so do not conflate nationalism with conservatism, because they are not the same. Host lets go back to the phone lines. Ed is calling from ohio. Ed supports President Trump. Good morning. Caller i do not believe this guy was ever a republican, republican in name only. This is why he is on msnbc all the time. You are a riley type of guy. Others sit out on the Supreme Court, they should be replaced. I am proud of President Trump. I was a Company Commander in the military. I worked my way through college. I worked three jobs. We have three kids. But i am a conservative. Name alone, the Lincoln Party, is a flop. This is why you despise trump. If he does not win this election, everything will be swept under the mat, from obama to this day, who tried to replace him with a rotten fbi that is all sitting there, they were not even said records over, so everything is a joke. He took on china for the first time in 30 years on fair trade. You shake your head, i am watching you. How are you and republicans supporting the democrats . The green deal, everything, they want to destroy the country. Are notou say the riots peaceful, a little bit . Nancy pelosi is holding up the ones that need aid because she wants trillions to bail out california for unpaid pensions. Host go ahead and respond. Guest there is no response to that. That is a person that lives in a bubble of facebook and fox. I get it. It is a phenomenon in politics today. I have to say that i have seen this plenty in this country, and the idea that any of the things he was taking off represents ing off represents conservativism, they dont. They represent white ethics grievance populism. So the idea that you will question someone who has worked in republican politics, a republican for 30 years, who worked for several republican president s, who won office and who worked mightily for others, even when we were going at uphill odds, is an absurdity. I regret that we have entered this phase of the country where the media silo is so on that side, he was running down the set of talking points that are vomited out every day on facebook, and it is sad. It is an epicenter closure. Host we will go to brian from phoenix. He is a republican that opposes President Trump. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for coming on, rick nelson rick wilson. I just joined the Lincoln Project and i actually voted for donald trump in 2016, and i am disappointed in his performance. The Lincoln Project has done a great job in letting the republicans who love this country, and our democracy, have a voice. I will be voting for joe biden because we need somebody in the white house who will care about people and not divide us. My hope and expectation is, after four years of joe biden, we will then elect a conservative in office who will be able to bring back those conservative principles that we all care about. Keep up the good work with the Lincoln Project. That is all. Guest thank you for saying that. We really are it is a real moment when we hear from Republican Voters who have reached their limit on donald trump, folks who voted for him in 2016. Steve bannon once said of the Lincoln Party gets 3 or 4 of republicans, it is over. We are trying to get more than that. We know we will not get the majority, but the support of folks like you is a great honor and i think you for it. It is great hearing your call. Host i know we have been talking a lot about the president , but there is also several republican senators, like you said, that in tough races coming up this fall. Where are you falling on people like Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins . Are you involved in those senate races as well . Guest we are involved in alaska, montana, arizona, colorado, iowa, north carolina, South Carolina and maine right now. We may expand out to georgia, we may expand into mississippi, since mike sp has come up so steadily in the polls, even in mississippi. We believe there is a simple rule in politics, pain is the only teacher. And because of that, the people who enable donald trump need to be held to account. We have a set of tools to do that right now, we are working hard to do that. We will not be decisive in all the races, but we can be in some of them. Some are hotly contested. We are just part of the pool, like north carolina. Others, we have been a major driver in the funding of the races, like in alaska and South Carolina. We will be in this fight. And republicans who enabled donald trump at any moment, they need to turn around and say this man is wrong, he is horrible for our country. You know what, we will never come knocking on your door. Host with talk about Lindsey Graham again and the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. Here is what the senator said is the reason why he changed his mind from that previous statement. I will read it to you. Thesey graham says, after treatment of justice kavanaugh, i have a different view of the process. Compare the treatment of Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh to that of ruth bader ginsburg, Sonya Sotomayor and elana kagan, and it is clear that there is already one set of rules for a republican president and one for a democratic president. Therefore i think it is important that we proceed to process any nomination made by President Trump to fill the vacancy. What do you thing about that reasoning . Guest he is Donald Trumps golf partner, that is what he wants to maintain. He could give a damn about the nomination. He wants to stay in the donald trump good graces,. Host we have something from a social media follower. You can answer this. Does mr. Wilson agree with john kasich that some issues like abortion are dwarfed by the need to remove donald trump from office . God help us if he does. Guest the need to remove donald trump is driven by a fantastic array of reasons. They include his continued mishandling of a virus that has killed 200,000 americans. They include the mishandling of the office of the president , turning it into a swamp of corruption, banality and nepotism. They include his bowing down to foreign dictators, thugs and immolating them on our streets. They include the fact that donald trump has been the most racially divisive president since woodrow wilson. And that is saying something. There are reasons and issues, and if you want to look at any single issue that you love or hate, to justified voting for donald trump, you are probably already going to vote for him. Host lets talk to michael, calling from stanford, connecticut. Good morning. Caller good morning. Good morning, rick. Im pretty sure in april, i pretty much thought donald trump could end up with about 22 of the vote because of how much he got in the first place. Win. Obviously not going to he got rid of Infectious Disease control department right in the wasnning, and that is what going to stop the coronavirus from coming into the country. This is trumps virus, is an orange virus on this country and it is a horrible thing. All these people that want to vote for him, the girl that was on, i wanted to talk to her the taste in her mouth is going to be horrible for spouting out all of this constantly. How do people believe anything that this guy has to say . Famous ptl, the barnum adage of one born every minute. [laughter] sandy, callingto from youngstown, ohio. She is a supporter of President Trump. Good morning. Caller good morning. Yeah, i have seen this guy before hanging out with the democrats, making fun of donald trump. I do not believe he is a republican at all, ever. He has he is another hater. He spouts the democrat points. Is going toays he come knock on republicans who voted for donald trump . He sounds like antifa to me. Guest host am antifa. , i moving on. Host david opposes President Trump. Good morning. Caller rick wilson, i had the honor of seeing the Lincoln Project at cooper union this february. So i have a question for you. Elders y democratic what is your feeling about this, how the new Supreme Court would act . My democratic elders do not really believe that they would automatically nullify a close or even clear biden victory. What is your feeling about how the Supreme Court would rule . Guest i think it would present an enormous set of risks once it got to the court. Up in the it ends Supreme Court, it will make 2000 look like a warmup act. It will be a much uglier and divisive process. I am hopeful, that particularly roberts, who has a view of electoral jurisprudence, from what i can read, would do the right thing, but it will be a dangerous moment. It will be a very dangerous moment. If donald trump is going to rely on a rush nomination to the bear on the bench, it will be even worse, it will absolutely destroy the credibility of the Supreme Court as a national institution. Host lets go to daniel from conway, South Carolina. He is a supporter of President Trump. Caller good morning. Well, i am i hate to say republican and democrat here, because obviously you are neither. If you really believe that donald trump should lose the election and joe biden should win, pal, whatever you are taking, keep taking it, but stay off of the tube. I am a retired new york city cop. I worked on two of his jobs. He is not racist. I have never seen anything racist about him. They do not hate women, considering most of the women, most of his general contractors that run jobs are women. And believe me, they are tougher than you. They would rip you apart. Second, Lindsey Graham has done more for South Carolina and the United States than this guy has ever done in his life. You say you were a republican for 30 years. I i have been a republican for 40 years, ever since jimmy carter lost this country to iran with his bullcrap. I am not saying i am 100 republican, i do not believe in everything republicans believe in, i believe in something things the democrats believe in, but i believe in the right to work, the right to life, and i believe donald trump has done more for this country than any other president in history. Host go ahead. Guest you are entitled to your opinion. And, you may have met him on a jobsite once or twice, but the ark of Donald TrumpsRacial Division is quite clear. The things like, those people are coming to your suburbs to destroy them. Both sides in charlottesville, i could go on, would speak for themselves. What also speaks for itself is Donald Trumps views of women have been more than clearly stated by donald trump himself, grab them by the you know what, and the fact he has been accused, credibly, of sexual improprieties 27 or 28 times, that are not frivolous claims. So i am glad that you have something to believe in, but it is a godless leader. Host lets get more calls in. Barbara is calling from concorde, california. Good morning. Caller mr. Wilson, how are you doing . I am sitting here laughing my at these callers for President Trump. I would like to see one of your trumpsh all of donald stuff being made in china. Guest we may get there. We make it there. Ivankarumps products, s products, are largely made in china. , against about that his views of china. Caller i wanted to say thank you for everything your group is doing because we know how donald trump acts, but it is the republicans, the ones that should know better, they are not doing what they should. It seems like their fidelity is not to the constitution, it is the donald trump, so i wanted to thank you. Guest i really appreciate you saying that. That is a great honor. You are right, this is the problem with the Republican Party. They claim to have a set of principles, they claim to swear an oath to the constitution that they will uphold, no matter what. They claim they believe in limited government, personal freedom and the control of the authority in the state, and they do not. They believe in donald trump. It is a tragedy. Host rebecca is calling from youngstown, ohio. She is a supporter of President Trump. Good morning. Caller good morning. I wanted to tell mr. Wilson that i think he is a disgrace to the Republican Party, not donald trump. He has done more for this country than any other president has done. So, i do not know what you are doing to the Lincoln Project except filling your pocket with money. Thank you. Goodbye. Guest donald trump has filled his products with money based on using the federal government as a tip. He is the most lavishly corrupt president we have ever had. If you want to talk about things he has done financially for the country, he has racked up 3 trillion of debt in the last six months, a president who is out of control in every way. And he is going to go down in history as the worst president in our history, and as the most absurd. But thank you. Host we would like to say thank you to rick wilson for being with us this morning, answering our questions. Rick, [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] announcer spans washington journal every day, discussing policy issues that impact you. Coming up tuesday morning, we talk about the upcoming Supreme Court confirmation bad with the chief counsel for the crisis network, carrie severino, and with elizabeth wydra, and with the history of president ial debates with mitchell mckinney. Washingtons journal, tuesday morning, and be sure to join with facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. The first president ial debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden is tuesday night at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. From cleveland, watch livepres. this whole catastrophic shutdown. Biden the president knew back in february that this was an extremely dangerous, communal goal disease communicable disease. Think about it. How many empty chairs around the dinner tables . Because of his negligence and selfishness . Announcer watch the first prison jewel debate live from cleveland, tuesday night on cspan watch the first president ial debate live from cleveland. War listen live on the cspan radio app. Or listen live. Announcer you are watching ,span, your unfiltered view created as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Announcer , a house panel looks at the federal response to the wildfires and Recovery Efforts in washington and california. We will hear from john fitz of the u. S. Forest service at this agriculture subcommittee hearing. [gavel]