Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jodi Kantor And Megan Twohey She Said 20240713

This synagogue and Culture Center is now 15 years old, and its founders and staff rerealy deserve a lot of credit. [applause] they deserve a lot of credit for transforming this place into the vibrant Community Institution it is today. Were delighted be hosting jody kantor and megan twohey. They are of course the to two New York Times reporter who reveals to the world Harvey Weinsteins extensive sexual abuse. Their book she said is the rifting revealing account how they developed theyre blockbuster story, and its consequences in spurring the metoo movement. As they note in their preface, in the wake of the weinstein expo expo say which broke in act 2017, it was as if a dam wall had come down, many, many women not just in country but around the world, spilled forward to tell their own stovers mistreatment. In addition to the pivotal impact the jodie and megan roz recording that the way they went about confirm the story, that others before them had tried to nail, provides a terrific case study of what goes into first raitt investigative journalism. People often say such scoops just fall into the laps of report erred inch realities what is involved is a lot of painstaking reporting. Pursuing leads, running into dead ends, coaxing details out of reluck tan sources, fanning out documents, substantiating information, dealing with skeptical, inpatient ed doctors all while enduring often intense itself bid the subject of the investigation to thwart to and sometime thursday threaten. The example bets hi eddie and megan of tough and exacting journal jim the effect this kind of reporting can have stands as a powerful counterargument to the sent skim but and denegation of news media today. Both jodi and megan 2008 their task rears of experience, jodi who joined the times a years ago spent a while as a political report and wrote a book about bar rock and Michelle Obama came out in 2012 and her reporting he focuses on the workplace, particularly the treatment of women, megan concentrated on the treatment of women and children in 2014 as a rueter with reuters she was a final u. S. At the fuel litter for investigative reporting for disposing an underground network where parents gave away adopted children, they no longer wanted to strangers met on the some internet. Their work on the weinstein story led to the New York Times along with the new yorker, winning the pulitzer for Public Service last year. [applause] in a review in New York Times, remarked that the book reads a bit like a feminist all the president s men. So, its particularly fitting that jody and megan will be in conversation with bob woodward. [applause] bob has been observing and regarding on major developments in washington for nearly half a century. He has shared in two pew pulitzers prize nor to coverage over the watergate seasonal and second in two were to lead reporter of the coverage of the 9 11 attacks but fears his devastating look inside the Trump Presidency came out last year, it was his 19th book, all have been National Best sellers. I wouldnt bet against another one coming out in a not too distant future. Please join me in welcoming jody kantor, megan twohey and bob woodward. [cheers and applause] thank you, brad. Its great to be here. Lets get right to it. First of all, this book is a masterpiece. A landmark. [applause] of journalism and but people who were not journalists should read it because its about how you sort out information, test it, decide to publish and share it with others i loved it. Have my marked up coach copy here. What was the origin of the collaboration between you two . Well, we would actually just like to start by thanking everybody. This is the launch of our book tour so we are just so [cheers and applause] were so thrilled to be here tonight, starting right here, and were also grateful we have not only friends and family and also some sours the audience tonight so we want to thank them foring here, too. [cheers and applause] okay. Introduce your family if theyre here. Will they stand up . I think that we i think when it comes to the question and answer period there may be people who want to get up identy themselves. So, i thats a good question. The truth is that in 2017 the New York Times sort of more broadly the newsroom decided it wanted to dive into reporting on Sexual Harassment. So the weinstein story, was one of actually many reporting projects that started that year, and it sill son real and the Restaurant Industry and the comedy industry, in auto plants in chicago, and we were really moved by the work of our colleagues, emily and mike had done something remarkable in e early that year, broken the bill olylely story and show out oryely and fox paid out millions of dollars to silence women who had come forward with alwayses of Sexual Misconduct against him. Lets pretend its the movie is it in nuss room of the New York Times issue did you know each other we had been acquaintances. Megan was very new at the paper and i saw this woman like in 2016, who i could tell was pretty for methoddable because she was doing difficult trump stories and also i saw her belly going like this. Like as the stories got more difficult, like this is what was happening to her body. And i have had two did kidds and i notice was not a easy but diabout know each other well. Only meat couple of times, and megan was on Maternity Leave in the spring of 2017, when i started working on the weinstein story. Was part of the answer to this question that the editors asked, there are other american powerful men in American Life who have perhaps abused women and covered it up . And i was trying very hard to get people on the phone and engage them. I mean, getting these actresses phone numbers was like an investigation unto itself. And then theres the question of once you have them on the phone, what do you actually do to earn trust . Sometimes just in that first 45 seconds as you know, until i called megan for advice, and she was like, in full on Maternity Leave. Just put the baby down for a nap. But she was telling me about reporting she had done on allegations by women against donald trump, and she was saying that the argue. S she often made to them was, look, i cant change what happened to you in the past, but together if we work, if he work arm in arm with may be able to take your pain and put it to some constructive purpose. This was the standard line you used. Right. The outreach line. Right. Thats right. So this is our first the first real conversation that jodi and i had while i was on Maternity Leave simple had didnt reporting on sex crimes. Started my career first in wisconsin and then in chicago it and was something id found had actually that this was what reason does a woman have to open up about the when did you become a team or when did you know you were a team or even more importantly, when did th editors think of youve as a team. When my editor told me to call megan i didnt think much of it. But now i realize that she sort of works in deep ways and understands the newsroom and i understand that she was like feeling out a potential partnership. So you were kind of tricked into it. Well, for me when lit megan said that line on the phone, something in me changed, and i i did not want to get off the phone with her and i of course wanted husband of the have same effect on sources but megan had another couple of weeks for maternity loo lead and had choices what some would cover when she came back. Go back to covering trump or join jodi on the weinstein investigation and i had to take a day to think about it. There were i had been covering trump up until having this baby and i watched for four months as i saw kind of hardhitting investigative work land with a thud and not have an impact and this is a real question is whether or not as investigative journalists youre not just out to write interesting stories. You want to write story that have an impact. Why weinstein . A lot of people hadnt heard of it. I myself had. Not now. You made him famous. I barely knew who he was and i will confess i had doubts. I wondered, this is when jodi told me but to the alwayses she heard, the stories of ashley judd and Gwyneth Paltrow ahead a hard tom conceive he famous actresses as victims and comprehend as investigate jiff journalists looking to give voice to voiceless and i had a hard time wrapping my head around hollywood but jody said the fact this hays happened to these women allegedly is suggests that nobody is immune and if we can crack this story, we really might be able to help make a difference here. Okay. When was the first real breakthrough . Where in your book, youve got the chronology and you have so many characters and so forth. When is the moment where you were, ah, this is different . This is something that has legs, as we say in the news business. We had a breakthrough, that left news a bad position because three really prominent actresses, rose mcgowan, ashley judd, Gwyneth Paltrow, not communication with one another, barely knew each other totally separately, tell us these terrible weinstein hotel room stories. At this point they were not on the record. They were so far from on the record. So that thats what far off the record. Thats what left news a bad position because it immediately created this bind because on the one hand, theres wow, these are high value sources, and theyre stories are very convincing and their stories match but on the other hand, none of them are ready to go on the record. So what do we do . What did you do. We basically realized is that the story was going to have to be broken with edit ifs ifives d we had this theory maybe we can persuade actresses to jump together and theres sift in numbers but because we couldnt tell any of the actresses who else we were talk, to it was very hard to get them to do that. And then also if we did that, it may have still created a traditional he said she said dynamic where the story just would have sparked a debate about what weinstein had or hadnt done. What brought you into making this different or making it provable. We realized we would need records and evidence that quenton the accounts were hearing. And so what this is one of the ways in which we always turn to emily and mike who had broken the bill oreilly story. They had done something remarkable there. This was they basically helped teach us how to basically try to track down these secret settlements that have been paid. The key her is a settlement or some sort of agreement to be silent, an nda. Right. There will women who were reluctant to tell us their experiences with weinstein. There were also women, at least eight, who were legally prohibited from telling us what had happened because weinstein had forced secret settlements on them. This happens not just degree case of weinstein but cases of sexual harassingment and Sexual Assault across the country. Women are told their best option in these cases is to basically accept money in exchange for silence, but the what do you what do you think of senate it seems your big breakthrough is rose mcgowan where she had 100,000 settlement. That was concrete. Weinstein0 the company had paid her, right . So we were able to basically able in the course of our reporting to show that we were able to trace the financial trail of payoffs that hat made. That he secret settlements been used to high the truth to allow people like weinstein to cover his tracks, we realize it if we could unearth the fact the settlements had been paid over the years, that would be evidence into itself and we were actually able to track down settlements from 1990 to 2015 and there were a view variety of way we were able to document. Rose mcgowan is one of many. Month the wonderful lines in book you say, knowing about documents is good. Having seen documents is excellent. But actually having copies is a celebration. Right. You know what that feels like. Now when was the first time you actually got or saw documents that showed women had been paid off to be quiet . I sought it guy to london, that summer to meet with zelda per kips a former miramax assistants who had a settlement, and megan is like basically eemoji techings me to the plain. She said youre going to see the paper. Go get em. She is the coach. Well, we even in the scenes in the book where its really one of us sort of doing something, were both really to there because were preparing before hand, were strategizing, et cetera, and so when i laid eyes on the papers the clauses were so shocking, bob. They went beyond a kind of standard settle immigrant agreement. These very young women were settlement agreement. They legally overpoured and they were essentially prohibited from talking about their open life experiences. If day wanted to tell a therapist, they needed to special permission. If they wanted to talk to an accountant they needed special permission. They could one of the women could not tell her future husband about what had happened to her. The women were not even allowed to retain copies of these settlement away a papers. Zelda perkinses put some together but imagine being told you have to abide by an agreement that you cannot even have your own copy of. How do you break that . Well, sell da was very brave. Because she basically she was from the beginning she was thinking of just breaking her settlement which was courageous because it would have exposed her to potential legal and financial liability, but i felt that i couldnt push her into that because it was such a big risk, and remember that we act now like metoo was inevitable but waits was for for foreordained with thought we might be publishing a controversial story and our sours might by vulnerable to a lot of attack. So we basically said is, look, zelda, even. I you cant go on the record there are so many other people who know about this settlement. Other people at miramax who know you disarched,out got money, there are lawyers, there are lots of people we can talk to. What if we just write about this document everything we can that happened, and you dont go on the record, and thats what she agreed to. And did you ever use the argument, if youre silent, youre enabling this . I think that the truth is that for women who have experienced sexual harassingment and Sexual Assault, theyve already undergone so much pain in their lives that were not trying to show we dont want to bully anybody into doing what to sort of come forward. Thats not aing extra we dont think thats an effective strategy and dont think thats just the right thing to do. Er did nothing to be asking them to break something in which legally bindingng document in which weinstein could come after them for the serious money. But not now. Did you think are liberated from that. I think weinstein is preparing to go on trial for criminal charges so hes got much anything attention to other issues right now. He is busy. He seems to now. But they are seeking financial compensation. Ifut any of you would be mistakn to think that this its not a serious risk. You say that maybe women who have targets against weinstein. How many of those are public now and how many of them are off the record t or for the next volume. I believe the public count, there are the other women including file write about in this book will not come forward. Reallyab keeping to remember especially as a style comes up, is the accusations really vary. Some of them, are activations of rape and assault the fall within the purview of the criminal Justice System or should. But a lot of them are charges Sexual Harassment and thats illegal but its a civil violation. This sort of resolute restitution for that, you can sue for that but you cant be arrested. So thats part of why the question of both of weinstein will essentially face any accountability at all, is the fraud. Criminal trials be . And the sort off combined civil lawsuit is also still a big question. Bob you two are experts in interviewing and going down really explaining people his experience. In all of you know, did you find any women who actually made up allegations. In the course of our reporting on rising, we have not doublecrossed any fabricated allegations. What i can tell you, its very important. Bob the tweet said donald trump. [applause] as you know, our book actually starts on the reporting of allegations against trump. We havent come across fabricated allegations but we also cometi across in cases whee we didnt report allegations not because we didnt believe the person buthe because we havent been able to obtain collaboration. There was one woman, a former beauty pageant contestant, who told me a story about being sexually harassed and groped by donald trump when she was in the ms. Miss universet pageant. She provided some and steer me towards some potential collaboration but didnt materialize. It wasnt that i didnt blame her but it just meant that it wasnt, we really go to painstaking details to describe all of the Due Diligence that we do to move forward with publishing a story likeis this. Bob turnabout Rebecca Corbett who was your roll up the sleeves editor. This marvelous scene in the book where she takes you to a part of why its bar. As you describedak it. Tell us what she said to you. This was in the summer of 2017, we been reporting forl weeks and weeks and we know so many things. We have spoken to several actresses who are very convincing accounts, loosened collaboration of accounts, we know about all bunch of settlements at that. We have also talked to miramax employees who have said yes this is the terrible problem. I had some knowledge of it at the time. Bob so you are really going to the bar. Were feeling nervous and this terrible feeling. Bob tell us what she had to say. We have this feeling of responsibility and we want to know if we can lend the story. She listens to everything that we have. And she says, is any of it on the record. And we saide no. And she said, you do not have a publishable story. We felt pretty devastated purity it was definitely one of the more memorable moments in one of the ones we work so hard on. There was a lot of drama in the pages of the articles online scene they came out but theres also so much drama that played out behind the scenes. As we were grateful to finally be able to show readers what its like when youim are not jut with working with sources but also in a newsroom. When your editor is telling you to wake up kids, you dont have a story. Bob what is the strategy for getting out of the hole. She is staying not publishable and as we all know, in this business, that is what counts. That is thet job. So how do you navigate out. We kept calling former miramax and voicing company employees. Howie finally caught this guy, writer, we figure he is. Bob talk about him. You never know whos going to end up helping. It is impossible to predict. There are boats of surprises i think in this book. The people who helped expose the truth. Also people who helped conceal it. This was sort of a surprising time. Erwin ryder has been essentially Harvey Weinstein his company accounted for 30 years. He is in the books on all of these famous movies, he is the relatively unassuming guy. He is short and he is in his late 50s and kind of an outer accent. He has been described to me as kind of this gruff loyalist. I thought hed been very unlikely to help. But finally somebody said to me, erwiny ryder, he hates Harvey Weinstein. [laughter] that was our opening. Bob did you tell that to rebecca. Did you say okay. Cycled the sky and bob does that also make you nervous though. That somebody [applause] heres what i was nervous about. I was worried that he could be a spy. As you know to get information, you have to give usually at least a little bitnf of information at least in terms of what you are writing about. And i worried that her one writer was a a set up to try, we now know a lot about what Harvey Weinstein was trying to do to stop the story. But at this. We are kind of imagining it. One of the things voicing couldve done m his he couldve positioned the company insider, to sort of player source that actually would be a live. Forgive us planted information that wouldve been terrible. Writer, gets off of the phone very quickly and gives me his email address. So we start corresponding. Even just the fact that he is writing back and we are sort of cantering over emails. He said he was going to take the weekend to decide. So i kept, this is in the booklet he and i kept emailing. Since were in a synagogue, maybe i should say that erwin is the child of Holocaust Survivors. And i am a grandchild of Holocaust Survivors. It turnser out that we grew up n the same places. Our families evenrs spent summes in sort of the same modest bungalow colonies. [laughter] for Holocaust Survivors didnt reallyoc have y money so thats where theyy spet theiron summers. Is anybody know the world waives men in british. He and i were that. We are sort of bantering over the weekend. We wereo kind of waiting to see if he is wheeling to meet in person. So lo and behold, he says that he is wheeling to h meet in on a monday or tuesday o night, last september, we had our first mate. Bob those are great days for reporters because its not smonday, everyone is running around this at the end of the week. I always havehe found the best time in which you did, was knock on the doors strategy of or that went out an appointment. 817 on a tuesday night about the best time. Sd [laughter] see that we will keep that in mind. So writer is wheeling to hold. So to answer your question, i started asking writer about all of these things that happened in the 90s. And he had a little bit of information but let the hunts. He finally said, why arent you asking me about more recent offenses. [laughter] so im like recent offenses. It turns out that unbeknownst, only a tiny part of this becomes public for two years within the Weinstein Company in 2014 and 2015. There was a series of problems that have become more and more visible to the governing leadership. And i didnt know it was writer. I was actually talking to somebody who had tried to stop things internally. And they failed. As i you know, that sort of the best kind of whistleblowers because they feel theyve already takenl action and that hasnt come to fruition. Talking to the press because it kind of last resort but i think a very principal decision on their part. Bob what about the editor of the times, he has a very thin roughly appearance in about three or four scenes in the book. We were so glad that we have an opportunity to show what a True Team Effort this project was. From the beginning the executive editor of the times and really set us down in his office and basically said it had semi strangers with points in the past and he set us down basically said to watch out because this guys going too mout you. Expectct him to put private detectives on god. We didnt expect that they would be former israeli spies who were promised 300,000 if they could put asr stop to our investigati. That came out laterom but he was basically and was really useful in an attic series with him is able to help us sort of spell out some serious groundnd rules. Once we were to assume that we were being followed and to be very careful about how we handle ourselves every single step of the way but also make sure that we didnt have any conversations with weinstein off of the record. Bob said bob no conversation he just also said that flat out. Until we were ready to go to him. Dont engage him off the record when we go to him, weve got the goods, when you are ready to go to him with your findings, that has to be in on the record conversation because if he goes off of the record and then you come in here and do this i am an important man routine and just want to share with you but the real truth is is going to smear your sources and is going to engage in a lot of dirty things. Buckling so act as if every conversation was being secretly taped. That surprise you and did you say whoa. The New York Times investigative unit, we and our colleagues are working on kind of secretive investigations of powerful figures and institutions all of the time. So we were surprised by that but it was really useful to us. What we shared is you have to really make sure that the reporters and the editors even all the way up through the publisher because weinstein was trying to call the publisher of the New York Times to make his case and everybody from all of those top guys were seeing talk to the reporters. So they really didnt give them any opportunity command the back dooro and try to intimidate or bully us of the story. Bob wallace tells about the biggest fight you two had. We ever had a big fight. You betterr be conceptual, it wasnt even so much a big disagreement but a worry. In august of 2017, was before he published a story. Megan finds out about this really a regular series of transactions that weinstein his hand with an far. Todays charity that he had been involved in for a lot of years. Tell you something about my partner. When you have really get into something, you dont really let go. [laughter] very quickly there was a suggestion that turned out to be true that wine strain and then operably use a fancy Charity Auction and that the money the donors thought they were giving to aids, was really going to help weinstein in a business capacity. This was like waving red in front of megan. In a disagreement we had is that i certainly thought that was interesting but on the other hand these women are telling us the stories about the hotel room the settlements and you have to remember that at this. The weinstein investigation, we are i can take a new tippet date. There are so many rumors that are coming out of this a lot of these things are not to be true. Angelina jolie has a story we can only down. You have to talk to some of because she has a story but you cant nail it down so the stories in a sense already felt is it too big early to reporters but megan couldnt pull herself away from looking at the state charity. It wasas also on investigation y the new york i attorney general. Rising all of his people were trying to cover it up. [laughter] so it worked out in a way that we never anticipated. Megan did take some time to go ahead and do a great story and with the end of that being a way of swearing off with weinstein in person. I wont run the scene in the book for youn says netmeeting, were extremely surprising. Second it all became sort of a guide to his playbook. Weinstein was very successful in creating his own reality and getting a lot of fancy for street just people to march behind him we need wanted to do something. Also megan really nails what happened in the story and publishry that before the investigation about the women was published was laying down marker that we are going to hold you into a account. Petitioner sources that weer had to basically show our sources and the people in his company that we meant business. That we were going to report the truth only found it we were going to be intimidated. Bob you have to ask the question, which you really dont address in the book and that is why he be paved this way. An errant psychiatrist or psychologist, share with us the why. What is driving him. There are so many strange things he does. He comes to the New York Times and at one point he says, you think imm bad. Im worse. Its almost like he is waving the red flag or theres a fatalism almost like you know going to catch me. I think thats a good question i think wed could spend days or weeks or even months trying to get to the bottom of his psychology but. Im going to tell you what we think is more important was a psychology of the people around him alleged misconduct. What were they thinking and how did they respond we do do we do get a glimpse of wrongdoing. So especially his brother bob weinstein, who was his only sibling in this was somebody had been in businessee with him they decadesompanies for during the time he was involved in this alleged predatory behavior. We came out of the firstrate really wanting to know, what did bob know it would be no it and would he do about it. He actually finally opened up to us in a series of interviews for this book. Its very interesting psychology that we saw time and time again. Bob harvey is him. My rating is that was the turning. He crossed the line so theres that long letter that weinstein sent to harvey in which he really lays out the parade of horrible his. What we learned of the course of the interviews with him and then this letter he provided to us that he is sent to us brother, this pleading letter in 2015, two years before the kind of truth spilled out into the public. He basically said i was aware of allegations of Sexual Misconduct against a brother going back to theot 90s, into cases that provided money that we is to. [silence] women. But i like a lot of other people, in the orbit chose to believe him we need o said that these were attempted shakedowns of that he only engaged in extramarital activities. Like i am bad as a night cheater my wife but then in the case of ongoing scene, he had actually, he had a rationale that was rooted in his own battles with substance abuse. But his brother was a act date. Bob you are artfully dodging the question. There is something. Tonight ill tell you know. This story is an xray and the power. And how power works. [applause] bob power its about power . E] abuse of power. Thats what the evidence say. Mom its not about. Not in a romantic sense. So if you, i would say that part of the way that it is about power is that it is about work. Thesehe women, both of they were actresses or former assistants, [applause] they shared up and eysome of them or their first dy of work, there are so many women in this book who were alleged harassed or assaulted on their first day of work for the first day they met weinstein. They show up with their ambitions and their aspirations and their hopes and their dreams. What you see it again and again according to these allegations, is that weinstein is able to carry laws against them. So i think its about both of these women are going to have a shot at achieving what they want to in the workplace and both of, those hotel room stories and they are kind of bait and switch with the women go in expecting one thing and then they find out another. Bob i understand that there are some perverted sexual drives. They has no . I think one of the things we realize is that in 1990, when we were able tont identify who we consider to be almost the patient zero of the weinstein investigation. This was a womanhood gone to work for miramax straight out of college and was alleged sexually assaulted by him on the job. [silence] then to one of the settlements. When we were able to start to report out what it happened around that, as we cut out judgment, was the chief Financial Officer of the company, he was aware of this. This was in 1990. Having waking into his office andin said, ive done something horrible, i promise it wont happen again. It was just remarkable for us to realize that this was not certainly somebody who is that there were time and again he was basically confronted with his behavior and even as 27 years before our investigation had claimed to have knowledge of it what he had done was wrong. That promises to change. Bob so why, i am sorry going to pursue. What is driving him. Not to go is it too far. Thats really important to understand. The lease for you in your search for what his behavior and what was likely. It obviously was a lotion. But why. If we had him here on sodium been involved the true sam, might take a lot of the drug and we asked, what is this about 30. I dont think hesna going to sy power. But gout ahead. His power was as a movie producer. It was a way he weapon eyes so many everyday waiting for things in the workplace. The boys Say Something totally gross but is an part of our group reporting. Especially the later years, he would have assistance, female assistance, procure supplies of this penile erection drug. Sort of like viagra was injected directly into the in his assistance, more than one of them in more than one country, told stories of having h to keep supplies and especially with one of them who work in new york, hand them out to him more than once a day. This was a prestigious company. To me that making movies that wheels off. What is remarkable to us was awake was able to deploy some elements of this company and its contracts and its assistance is lawyers and sometimes offices in pursuit of whatever this thing he wanted was. Bob what was it. What is rosebud. Some kind of weird foreplay. Im going to inject this in my. Is it some kind aware foreplay. I think its just thege limis of our knowledge. As investigative reports, we thought that the questions we wanted to tackle error reporting in this book, were not the psychology of pricing would clearly engage in such a long pattern of predatory behavior, not she gets actresses but women who work in his company but we really wanted to tackle that questions of complexity. How is it that an individual and companies can become this. An enabler. [applause] and i think that those are some of the things that were all wrestling with now. How did lisa bloom one of the most prominent attorneys in the country crossover the other side. To work with him in 2016 and 2017. Bob i understand your dodging that question. [laughter] what is really important is the behavior and the impact of these women. Time and time again. Tell me a little bit about the lawyers in this. The lawyers come out as goahead. I think lisa blanc is the great and i will present her rermanent p there were a variety of highpowered attorneys who came into weinstein his orbit and help them conceal and spend and evade scrutiny. We knew that lisa bloom had worked for wasting away and had encountered her. She saidd that she went to work for him because she was only aware that he had made inappropriate comments against womens want help and apologize. We were able to obtain confidential records that shared that she had much deeper knowledge of very serious site allegations against him and she played a much darker role. People can read for themselves what this lawyer was staying. All of the underhanded tactics that she was going to use to undermine one of his accusers. Earthlike of playbook of how she was going to harm the victims to help and work against them. We also obtain her accounting records. Former is relatively intelligence officials who were hired to stop thus, she was working with david boys, also another prominent attorney. Survey is what again case of gay marriage. It also been one of harveys biggerme defenders of the course of 15y years. So these were, and we really thought it was important to eliminate the figures of these lawyers for playing. In the circles that help enabled. Bob we do think of this man like lenny davis, the lawyer and one of my favorite lines in the book is when dean talks to him and says lenny, i am tired of this shift. Weinstein hired so many highpriced a attorneys and spinners and pr people and it was actually sort of as we get to the final showdown with weinstein, it was almost confusing to deal with because it was like who is representing you. Who even call if we want to straight answer. It was clear that they didnt all agree with each other. The lesson for us is that all of the highpowered legal help and pr help innd the world does not really do anything we do have brave sources and a lot of facts youve documented you at 25 years of allegations and we do get a brave institution and is wheeling to stand up for the vulnerable. [applause] it didnt help them. It was kind of the tipoff. Lanny did end up helping us in some ways. He was pretty open from the beginning that the client was really difficult. Bob this really put in question and that is we are now and then meet to movement. As of into exchange or not enough and what is your answer. We want to stop with the story, we really wanted to push through into year followed is me to move it turk off in earnest. We actually were grateful enough to report behind the scenes of ford in her private testifying in washington. He became one of the more o controversial sort of moments and see you interim food viewed her for dozens of hours. She is probably the most precise and diligent source subject that i certainly have ever reportedr on. In recreating the readers, what was happening is that she was on the way to washington even the day before, she testified, when she had some of her advisors coater for going before the committees,mi she refused to be coached. She the answer to the questions and she even was kind of obsessively writing and rewriting to make sure that sheo had the language just right. All i can tell you is that in the telling of her account and experience, i havent really encountered somebody good heres to be as precise and obsessed about getting it right. [applause] bob she didnt have some precise memory on when t ts happened or exactly where and so forth. That is been used to undermine what she testified to an said. The interesting question now is all that is available about christine but as a in that allegation in kavanaugh, if you were to say judge, district of columbia and so they gave you all of that information, is it enough to publish the story. You find it. Somebody swimming. Was it sufficient. Wouldve it met your standards in new york standards. Is your paper the Washington Post and exactly that story. Bob but it was in the ms of the Supreme Court nomination. Im asking a different question. In other words, in terms of i go through and i really mean this. I went i teach a journalism seminar and im going to assign it as a manual about going through a really difficult case, they cave in our case as it unfolded was very difficult. I am wondering both of everything we know, the position and there is some precision but there is imprecision and there are not the corroborating witnesses that you wanted in your work on weinstein. I am asking, wouldve you published that in the New York Times. I think that is part of why we wanted to write about it because the weinstein story ended up being a case in which there was so much overwhelming proof that we felt that we had to sort of take on a much harder case. The first thing i would say in answer to your question is that i dont think the fact that christine fuzzy ford doesnt remember everything about that night, isyt assigned of lack of credibility, i would say the opposite. [applause] im going to get to the answer to your question. I t think that when somebody is wheeling to acknowledge what they dont remember, we generally see that as a strength. I think the reason we were so onto this is because basically there are three good questions about these two or totally unresolved. And very controversial. Which aret that number one, what is the scope of the behavior on scrutiny. Are we only talking about sort of a classic Sexual Assaults. As it also sort of a lesser offensive with verbal abuse. I think included in that question about soap is how far w back. Ar it is very powerful to go back for a very long time, but the further back you go, the harder it is because it is harder to actually get the truth in the package time. Number two, heading into to the bottom of what happened especially when it is sort of High School Era incident for many years ago. Number three, what is the accountability look like. What is the punishment for this. I think. Bob youd be disappointed in me though if i didnt question you. Im getting the answer to question. Which is from the first moment we found out about the ford allegation, it was so newsworthy. It was a potential Supreme Court justice who is about to be appointed. This is the woman who is the Research Scientist whose business is precision. Some are not the editors of the New York Times we went to make that final call but i will tell you that we tried very hard to speak to her and do be your newspaper even be for this came a politicalal storm. Bob you would leave it up to the editors of the New York Times to decide both of to publish this. I think what we can tell you is that christine was a four did not come forward with her allegation when kavanaugh was a lower court judge. It was really we need is being considered for when the most powerful jobs in the entire country that she felt like she had a civic duty to report that. So theres questions about the judgment in terms of news organizations and whater you publish stories and allegations and why. In some cases you are looking at a pattern of predatory behavior and you worry that that person is still going on. If you dont referha the truth about them, theyre going to keep hurting other people. He almost think off god, then its a Public Safety issue then there are other considerations when is somebody that position by the Supreme Court. While colin imposes question in a bookco which i find it very interesting. What she been better off w stayg part of why its. In her own live. And you pose that question and you dont answer it. We know that kavanaugh after these wrenching testimonies on both sides that he is now in the Supreme Court, and christine was a fortis back in california so hes going to continue to be a difficult public figure and will be able to trace what happens him but i think that it is worth people and across the country continuing to wonder how she is doing. In our experience, [applause] when i became the first tterview of her months after that, she was still living in hiding. She had not, feel like her security advisers even did not feel like it was safe enough. Bob was she trying to gain control of her own story. Obviously she was unable to. Is that correct. Ior think she became a vehice for and this was the many hours spent interviewing her, it was clear that this was not somebody that any interest in and cackling herself into the center of this giggles or become a major person in the me to movement. We wanted to write about her because she did become this vehicle. Some people came to her see her as a figueroa in some saw her as a villain. In the vehicle, we want readers to see that this is actually a real person. The behind the scenes story is so much more complicated. Bob last chapter the book is the gathering. You got a dozen of your sources in the actresses, ashley judge and so forth together. I think this is fascinating discussion and i would ask him that, because you were there you know love this work in your bo book, what did you learn about yourselves. [laughter] [applause] that is definitely the hardest question youve asked us. You going to tell me that i not answer your question but i really am. [laughter] [applause] i believe in the journalistic process bob. It is so noti about megan or me or you. Weve been fortunate to do these gigantic stories, nobody more so than you but the tools that we describe in this book, are the tools the journalists across the country had crossed the world, use every single day. If you follow the process and if you use good judgment, they really dogm work. That is what made this, i mean, megan and i certainly are happy about certain decisions we made but i feel like a mentally, thats bigger. Bob this is really an answer because the answer is you picked the right profession. [applause] best job in the world. Bob what did you learn about yourself. I think i learned that i had done, i know i been reported for 20 years and i did a variety of stories and for me, one of the things that i learned in the course of the reporting, jody and i in that first phone call when i was on Maternity Leave when i didnt even know jodi, to the moment we need started working together. Those who have years ago. For me one of the things thats been an addition to the subject matter in addition to the journalism that there is also just been an incredible partnership that is formed. I think for me learning to work so closely with a fellow journalist and that has been probably one of the most unexpected and fantastic treats about doing this work. [applause] bob what now, gordon has provided, [laughter] your old enough to remember who gordie lindy is. While people hopefully come to the microphone, i think we would be remiss bob if we did not ask you a question or two. Given whats going on in washington. [applause] okay so im in a hypothetical for you which is, you know the investigative editor of the universe in the scenario. What is it as an investigator journalist that you most want to know about how trump uses office to talk to the ukrainian leadership another for leadership. We do think most need to be investigated and what do you think we do not understand. Bob i think there is so much away got to remember that ukrainian story, which is been a lot of attention to, and rightly so is just looking through the keyhole. At the Top Administration and there is much more to look at. Im going to send a copy and i hope you will sign it, to adam shift who is running the investigation. [applause] because this is how to run an investigation. [applause] you cant do it in two weeks. You cant do it in two months. Cant say oh what we found three women who were assaulted or harassed. You have to look at the whole total universe and that is the obligation. As we did in this case. Hopefully in this internet age of the patients in speed, there is a way to slow down for everyone including trump and the people who work for him, they are entitled to a full investigation of listening. What you did knocking on doors, crosschecking, the ups and downs. E the menu to win on one of the most wonderful toboggan rides that anyone ever had. But i dont think you know answering my question. [laughter] [applause] we most want to know about trump what he didnt didnt do. Bob i think part of the question is why. Why do you do this. And i think one of the big issues. With trump is, ive written books on nine president s. From nixon to trump. That is 20 percent of the president s we had. I once went to a Junior High School for a friend and one of the students raise their hand and said. Lois Calvin Coolidge like. [laughter] and his scalp. All president s are isolated. Truck they be the most isolated president. He has because he had no political office. He had no government experience. He is experienced a self validation that none of us, no one does. He made it to the top, to the presidency. He did it on his own. Nuc this confidence that he shows publicly and in private. We need meets in the oval office with advisors, people can say, they give advice and ideas and he says hey, im here and you know here because of me, i did this all by myself. So he has got, as far as hes concerned, he is in control. And what happens in this is unfortunate for him, and the country, is what George Cannon the father called the treacherous curtain of death threats. He jus comes down, oh yes mr. President we agree with you. And he, and the reality that is out there doesnt get in and not. Thats why he hates the Washington Post and the New York Times so much because were bringing reality into that bubble that he is constructed. See want to know what we did acting out of all of that selfconfidence and it was nonstop due to the difference of other people. Bob what i want to know what we are facing a governing crisis. The major issues in the middle east, i have all kinds of information in my book about the tariffs. Ninetynine out of a hundred economists will say this makes no sense at all. The north korean policy, he almost got us into a war with north korea. There are all of the basic economic important policies issues. How do we get there and what is the impact and what might be the outcome of some of this. My wife and i were in south korea last week. We talk to people in south there next to kim jongil weapons, we went to south korea with a certain amount of interpretation quite frankly. They say are worried. What is going on. What is the strategy. How do we and not to overdo all of this, the issue in one of these meetings trump has which i recount for National Security council notes. We need is on this g hot about why are we spending all of this money on allies. With o nato and we are suckers. It would be so rich if we didnt do this. The secretary of defense says to the president , mr. President we are doing all of this things to prevent world war three. Now the president has to be told that this is why we have these alliances and this is why we have the defense system. That is one of my filling moments as a reporter. I look forward to finding out what else you find out. [applause]e] bob thank you to finish that book, i will come to you in making and you could interview me. You got it. Thanks. I really appreciate your journalism. Thank you for what youree contributed. I think we will look at what happensou, give a longitudinal study of anita hill. I wanted to know we saw what happened with the anita hill. We saw what happened with christine deformed. Three times a charm. What will happen if we face this again. I think one of the things it was most clinging to is that when she did come forward, which she was made public and there was a determination that there would be hearing that anita hill actually wrote this pretty incredible opinion piece at that moment in time and theyre trying to negotiate what the rules of that hearing would be and she noted that 70 years after her experience of coming forward and having to testify, this committee had still not come up with a protocol and how to handle and how to feel the allegation of Sexual Assault or obligations. Not having so many years at the shoot him juan pierre into me is it too. I think that what is clear is that in these cases, your talking shifts in cultural theres nono question that anita hill think will allow Clarence Thomas was ultimately confirmed and on a specific work that she did the usual sort of shift cultural and its use against Sexual Harassment and i think we would be looking and watching to see the impact of perceived as a four meanwhile, how about the Senate Judiciary committee his and protocols in place. This will be a placement does have an accent. Back. Thank you for all ofu the wk you done and delivered hearing you heatedly interrupt all of these women all night how is so frustrating. Its on your assumptions of what theyre about to say. Missus cantor was going to respond directly to you and you assume she was going to Say Something about missus kavanaugh and you didnt let her finish. So it was frustrating. In any if it, im really interested in hearing your experiences as women doing this work, what have you emotionally received, i know what i kind of live through the cabin on hearings, i couldnt read for three weeks. Statistically we know that either one or both of you have been victims of Sexual Assault and harassment so you certainly will many people have said what is it been like for you as women to look at this. Megan i have a firm role that we dont talk about what is happened to us personally. It is all about resources. We want to be for the women we talk to. One of the doing our jobs when we talk to them. Which is the very unique relationship. Were not friends. Were not there therapist. We are journalists who are trying to bring these stories to white. And some arere new doing that work, you are trying to be very steady and it is our belief that victims want to feel compassion. But they also want to feel that they arent very firm steady hands. If i were in that situation i would notha want to speak to a reporter who is an emotional mess. It was falling apart and so would ever believe me, that a a lot of feelings obviously in reaction to doing this work will travel the in reserve. Its also what is so valuable about having each others partners because we can be very professional interviews. Then again to brent a college say oh my gosh, and so. We tend to trade off of her emotions. One day ill be doing wale and tradeoff emotions. We hold each other up behind the scenes. I think the final answer to your question is that during this reporting, has ultimately been empowering. It was material during the white scene investigation that was very difficult and you can feel you know standing in a river of pain as you are doing this reporting period but we felt such responsibility in such force and desire to air these stories that always felt like it was sort of moving in the right direction. So somebody recently asked me if it was fun [inaudible conversation] stories coming out of indian industry. Reporting about it. The change that happened that was our editors have the state, only then he would write about it. We size reporting and front page lead stories about him. Discussed a lot because of the things that happen to us. [inaudible conversation] we do are reporting about Sexual Harassment. And secondly, you opened the door and theres so much reporting. We do see the future every morning on Sexual Harassment. What is the future look like. See back to you. [applause] and reporting. Good luck to hear that you will have a chance at some. To hear more about that specific reporting that you did inha ind. I think that what i can tell you is that we as a new New York Times reactions, we broke the white scene story. Our email accounts and our phones were just flooded with tips and women coming forward with their accounts of what had happened to them. We started to come up with a triage system in the newsroom to figure out how to feel all of the steps and stories that were coming to us. It really became like a Group Project across the newsroom. The Sports Department wasup involved, the cultural desk was involved, and we were even doing brownbag sessions with some of the reporters to explain. Only some techniques we had us used. It was staying onehe thing to spread across her newsroom but to watch it across the country and around the world has been so exciting. We cant be sure of where everything is headed whats going happen next as journalists were not, we cant enact policy reforms. We cant change hr departments we cant change the laws but to no there are news organizations and to know not only for us to know that, but for companies and bad guys. There is now this kind of project across journalism tackling this issue. It makes me sleep better at night. I just think that that is really been thrilling to watch. Back bob sir. Thank you for all of your years and decades of surfing for the truth. [applause] when i know i is coming here, i pulled out and my baseman my front page of the Washington Post. History repeats itself. [applause] bob you have a question for them . No, but i want to thank you. [applause] i have a question for you actually, thank you. You cant gatorade to up date, so i was waiting for the punch lines but i am looking forward to reading the book. Im definitely putting both of you on my list of gutsy women. I wanted to talk about the gutsy women who are the sources for your buck. And i read a really interesting article rebecca, read about the all of the women, plessy ford was a highprofile case. She had protection but there are a number of women she talked about in this article who have lost their jobs rather than money separated from the children. I am justpa wondering are we igniting a movement to uncover these cases. I am hoping that there is some part of the movement, to prote protect. Like we have witness protection programs, like these are witnesses. I think, it is very hard to take on everything but how do we build that into the movement. Why think you know putting a finger on is the little bit frustrating about this whole discussion about both of some of these accused men will come back or not. Will bc he commit will market back because you know putting rour finger on the more interesting question which is what is goingin happen to these women. Some of them suffered severe consequences in the workplace or psychological from this happening in the first place. I can tell you the women we wrote about in this book is on anything to get harassed or assaulted. They were doing the equivalent of walking down the street as his happen to them. Theyre going to the jobs, etc. Etc. There is something very unfair about this reporting period why is it womens work to have to tell the stories. [applause] why is the women who have to undergo this painful process, being tortured about both of to go on record or not and on the one hand it can be so high impact on the other hand, you can never know what the cost willkn be. So something we have to think about love. May writes the book about when they were women in t 2016, who d relations against president trump. She was convinced some of them to go on the record. Some of them had written to the times. They seemed pretty wheeling but this is what we do for a living. We tell people to tell the truth it is a Public Service. We make the argument that it will hopefully help other people in some way. Then megan has to watch as some of those women were attacked really severely. In macon. To threaten to sue them in and threatened to sue us. At the end of day, we cant going to court on the behalf and there are things that are outside of our control. This is really tough calculations that women make. Is offset in the last chapter of the book is the sort of gathering of these women that also forward. Their experiences have come forward are so varied and some of them were treated like heroes. In some of the pain a really significant price. So the thing is so torturous about it is that you never really know what the effects will be until you do it. Im sorry think we are over on her time. Well take two more questions. Hello ira my question so please excuse me as her survivor of College Campus advocate and a huge fan of everybody up on stage. Four years. Safety and thank you for everybody. The spin echoed throughout the room. This book in this article changed my live and, i mean, this obviously is invidious, only to a small liberal arts school in the middle of the courts of field in. Now this was very different because of the movement in the Harvey Weinstein scanlon everything. So my question is, do you have anything to say to the future i guess, to the young survivors into the advocates to the activists to those sitting out into male dominated fields facing harassment or whatever it may be, do you have any words of advice or encouragement. Listen, thank you. Back thank you for coming tonight and coming up to the microphone and we appreciate that. Thehe preview for, it sounds toe like you have turned your private pain into working towards collective strength. And yet because he works so hats off to youou for that. [applause] one of the things that we were actually, its leslie and theres a girl who got an ass why things were going to be like for her generation moving forward. We obviously cant look into a principal, we cant tell you, we dont have predictions. You enter to tell us what lawyers derby, New York Times just before a story published, we turn to each other it was like 1 00 oclock in the t morng and it had been so immersed in the reporting and trying to get to the finish line and making sure the story was airtight and we werent even thinking about what the impact might be. Return each other and said do you think anybody is going to read the story. [laughter] i think it was just signed that we had no idea about the impact of the story. And others like it would have. In the year that followed and beyond. But we cant predict is all we can say is a theres a lot of people weve encountered with the sources and our investigations and are reporting, have been motivated to act because they want to help particular generations. And is also something that it come out in interviews with 15 before but she gave away from testifying, she said listen and it had washington to try to derail nomination, but my hope was that if i can get there i tell my storyry with integrity,t might make it easier for younger generations to come forward. Is my other one of the people the works on that very closely is here. Lisa makes him a [applause] i think lisas quote in the book, and so much of that was almost a year ago today, but everybody in this room and so much of what lisa and her partner debbie were talking about at the time, as they dealt with this very stressful set of hearings, was that hope. It was part of me being annoying and asking them questions that they were kind of the the work that even from that moment, i think everybody was so conscious of what this legacy is going to leave her people like you. Class question. Thank you all truly. I am asking for a nervous spread, you felt the individual or group reach above it what hope they learn from it. I hope men read it. [applause] cnet is just about to say everywhere in every reader means the world to us because if anybody in this room has notions notice information in this country its not really healthy rightn now. The idea of readers committing to a book and to merely hundred thousand words of this very complicated material means so much to us so really thank you toyb anybody it comes on the journey with us. Bob thank you. You want to introduce family. Sure, i would love to, my parents are here. [applause] my brotherinlaw is here, [applause] got some of my nearest and dearest and all his friends re i am really excited to see them afterwards. [applause] five real quick, final question. Alternative titles. With else might have you called this because as i read it, public times you refer to the reckoning. That there has been a reckoning in this. Indeed the house. Anyway. Title. Once she said this was unstable, there were no other other forces in the running for the title. It just felt like such a. Bob you quote that its the only we do are carrying the ball. The only heckle you we do carry the ball. Just imagine some of you to have carried the ball of the finish line i think we owe you. [applause] thanks so much. Thank you [applause] [background sounds] thank you so much for joining us. If you would like to have your book signed, please stay seated for just a few minutes. If you know looking for an exit, yuki is theor main lobby or the corner lobby to my right. Thank you. Background sounds. [background sounds] the house will be in order. So for 40 years cspan2 has been providing american unfiltered coverage of congress. The white house this report and Public Policy events from washington dc and run the country. See can make up your mind. Creative people in 1979, cspan2 is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. Cspan2, your unfiltered view of government. In recent invented politics and prose bookstore in washington dc, Northwestern University professor danielle rivard, spoke about americas territories in the pacific during world war ii. It is portion of that program. United states at the time had adopted what he referred to as a carefirst policy in the war. Meaning that the work would be on two fronts, the european theater in the Pacific Theater in the United States with ontologically terms of priority, and see the european theater first. First turn back hitler and seeger goal related, returned back to van. There was a clear priority for fdr in the beginning of the war