Body worn throughout the d. O. I. In response d. O. I. Issued a new draft about Body Worn Camera policy. The Leadership Council for human rights and dozens of other organizations came together in 2015 to release basic civil rights principles for Body Worn Camera usage. Though turned those principles into eight criteria for which to evaluate body camera policies. We measured interiors policy against the leadership criteria. Interiors draft interim policy only fully met one of eight criteria. Thats an 88 failure rate. 88 . The deficiencies are significant. The policy isnt publicly available. It doesnt limit Biometric Technologies like facial recognition. It doesnt prevent the officer from seeing footage before writing a report about an incident. In fact, on many of the important questions like those the interior policy says that bureau should decide. That creates an inconsistent set of basic civil protections that will change depending on which bureaus Law Enforcement officer you run into. Since d. O. I. Defers to the bureaus this is the part where i would tell you when the Bureau Policies stacked up against the Leadership Conferences criteria. What are the five major bureau Law Enforcement units interior would only give us the policies for two. And one of those had significant redactions. Only met one of eight criteria for the basic protection of civil rights. The Park Service Rangers policy only met two of the benchmarks. Fish and wildlife fully met four. Interiors briefed the committee on the topic twice ore two years but has still not been able to tell us how much the body camera worn the bodyworn camera programs cost. So that congress can fund them. They told us in 2018 that interior was overseeing a Pilot Project on bodyworn cameras in d. O. I. Agencies though they wouldnt tell us how long it would last who was involved or how much it costs. When we met with them two years later and asked for an update on the Pilot Program they said they had no idea what we were talking. Whvg we invited them to this hearing today repeatedly they refused to answer questions like these. They refused to even attend. A culture of entitlement has infected way too many Police Forces across the u. S. It appears to have affected at least the park police as well. Video footage is not the panacea that will bring cultural fairness, accountability and transparency but it is a first step. This level of resistance of taking this first step only raises more questions about what they have to hide. Miss bijan has reminded us the resistance has consequences. Now well recognize Ranking Member gonzalezcolon for their opening statement, for her opening statement. Ill begin my statement by extending my deepest sympathies for the lost of your son. And i think youre here today to discuss the use of bodyworn cameras by Law Enforcement officers. And this is an important topic and one that involves this question. I want to thank you for joining us today. And talking about other facts factors that should be considered before enacting such a requirement. Bodyworn cameras have the potential to be a useful tool, as several witness noted. They provide benefits for both Law Enforcement officers and the public. While these benefits are indicative of the positive impact these tools will have, i think youre right in your testimony when you say, and i quote, the devil is in the details. The nature and scope of these policies that govern these cameras is critical to this programs success. And while theres an initial positive reaction to the idea of implementing bodyworn cameras, we have a responsibility to discuss the policies to carry out these programs, the cost to purchase and maintain them, and the infrastructure and Technology Needs and the impact as well. In january of 2018 the Office Inspector general released a report that concluded that draft bodyworn camera policy did not meet the industry standards that the Inspector General believed to be mandatory. The fish and Wildlife Services bodycorn camera policy released in may of 2019 seems to address many of the concerns noted in this report including an implementation of standard operate procedures for the storage of data and for the retention of records. As the interior department continues to evaluate these policies i hope the industry standards and the perspective of Law Enforcement officers are taken into consideration as well. Only after the policies have been established that comply with industry standards and address concerns about privacy for both officers and the public should the department begin the process of implementing a bodyworn camera program. After these plans have been solidified the next step is to lay the foundation of it. For bodyworn cameras the Programs Foundation is rooted in the Financial Support the program will receive. When analyzing the Financial Capacity required we must look beyond the initial cost of purchasing the camera, the maintenance cost, expenses to store the data and additional personal costs that could come up with complying with requests to produce footage. These concerns were highlighted in the testimony when he noted that some parts may not have implemented body cameras programs because they do not have the support within the current budgets. Without the ability to financially support these tools and the additional costs associated with them we are setting up these programs to fail. It takes resources to ensure that our Law Enforcement officers can keep us safe and for them to stay safe in the process of doing their jobs. With expenses associated with implementation of bodyworn cameras i have to point out the argument by some of our colleagues who want to institute this program while calling to defund police, that is certainly not a foundation that i would be comfortable building on. The framework can be erected after were confident in this foundation. Once we can be sure theres a financial backing for a bodyworn camera program, we have to ensure that the program is supported by necessary elements and this includes training in how to operate the cameras and comply with policies as well as availability of technology. And infrastructure to store footage. Only with a Firm Foundation and support will the implementation of bodyworn camera requirement is going to be successful. Many Law Enforcement officers view bodyworn cameras as in fact mr. Kaufmans testimony stated evidence has shown that bodyworn cameras can be an effective tool and beneficial protecting both Law Enforcement officers and individuals when they interact with them. However, their effectiveness will be severely muted if the policies guiding their use, financial requirements and support needs are not adequately discussed. Thats why an honest discussion is so important. We have the opportunity to analyze these benefits of the program and if implemented mindfully bodyworn cameras have the potential to benefit the community and our Law Enforcement officers. We owe it to the public and to the brave men and women who serve our communities to have thoughtful discussions around the reality surrounding the requirement of federal Law Enforcement officers and the department of interior for these body cameras. With that i yield back to the chairman. Well, thank you so much, representative gonzalezcolon. Now we will move to witness introductions and to introduce our first witness i will yield to the gentle lady from virginia, representative wexton, to introduce her constituent. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, for allowing me onto this committee and to introduce our first witness, miss Kelly Ghaisar whos a constituent of mine. She lives just outside washington, d. C. In mclean virginia with her husband james. These the mother of two beautiful children, nageen her daughter and bijan her son. Unfortunately shes joining you today because shes part of a growing group of americans she never wanted to be a part 1 2 thats a mother whose unarmed son was killed by Law Enforcement. In her case her son bijan was shot and killed by United States park police 1,047 days ago. Thats almost three years. And since that time their family has received no justice, no transparency, and no accountability in his death. I have the honor of representing her in congress and fighting alongside her for justice for bijan. Thank you, mrs. Ghaisar, for joining us today. I thank the gentle lady. Our next witnesses will be mr. Arthur ago, who is the director of criminal Justice Project for the Lawyers Committee for civil rights under law. Before that he was a public defender in washington, d. C. For 19 years. Mr. Larry cosme is the National President of the federal Law Enforcement officers association. He is a retired special agent with Homeland Security investigations, a division of immigration and customs enforcement. Mr. Jim northup is an executive Council Member of the coalition to protect Americas National parks. He served for over 36 years in the National Park service including 24 years as a Law Enforcement ranger. Jim retired in 2017 as the superintendent of the shenandoah National Park but was also chief ranger among many other positions. Let me remind the witnesses that under Committee Rules they must limit their oral statements to five minutes. But that their entire statement will appear in the hearing record. Before you begin the timer will begin and will turn orange when you have one minute remaining. I remind the members and witnesses joining remotely, use the grid view so that you may pin the timer on the screen. After your testimonys complete please remember to mute yourself to avoid any inadvertent background noise. And ill also allow the entire panel to testify before questioning the witnesses. The chair now recognizes miss Kelly Ghaisar to testify. Thank you, representative wexton, for your kind introduction. Thank you, mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Kelly Ghaisar. Im bijan ghaisars mom. And september 4th we celebrated bijans 28th birthday without his physical presence for the third year. Bijan was born in fairfax hospital, the same hospital he died 25 years later. As a toddler bijan was the cutest boy imaginable. He loved his micro cars and legos. I will never forget the joy in his eyes when he got his first playstation console when he was in fourth grade. The summer before his freshman year he trained for and made it to langleys freshman football team. He did not have a Football Players physique and was not born an athlete. But he loved the game and worked hard. He fell in love with the new England Patriots when they won the super bowl after 9 11. Bijan earned a degree in accounting from Virginia Commonwealth University and joined his fathers Accounting Firm in mclean, virginia. Everything changed on november 17th, 2017 when two men in plain clothing knocked on our door. Two detectives from the park police. They told us bijan was in a shootout. I did not believe them. Bijan was antigun, antiviolence, and would not be involved in a shootout. They said they would meet us in the hospital. We never saw them again. When we got to the hospital, the doctor told us bijan was shot in the head multiple times. He would not survive. We then learned we could not visit our son and his body was guarded by the Park Police Officers. After pleading with the doctors and their advocacy the park police let us visit with bijan under the conditions that we could not approach his body, we could not touch him, and there would be a Park Police Officer present and there would be a Park Police Officer present in the room to guard us. We learned bijan was shot by the park police early the next day when we watched the news and saw bijans car in a ditch on tv. The federal government has never explained to my family and the public why alejandro amaria and lucas vineyard of park police murdered our son. The park police has not even started an internal investigation into bijans shooting. These officers were on paid leave for six months and have been back at work for years. The park police do not wear body cameras, and their cruisers do not have dash cameras. If not for Fairfax County cruisers dash cameras we would have never known how our son was murdered. We would never have seen the park police violate their own policies. My family, bijans friends, and our community and the world would not have known the truth, that these officers shot bijan ten times while he sat unarmed in his car. I would like to thank Fairfax County police chief ed rossler for releasing the tape. If not for his courage these officers would have gotten away with their madeup false version of the event. I would also like to thank congressman wexton and Eleanor Holmes norton, congressman beyer, senators warner, kaine, grassley and state senator savell for the kindness and support they have shown my family in pushing the park police for answers. About a month ago u. S. Park police chief gregory moynihan testified that his agency would not participate in body camera pilot. Why would they when they can literally get away with murder without them . My son bijan was a handsome, charming, caring, inclusive, funny and most of all kindhearted young man. Everywhere he went he was loved. I still remember the sounds of bijan. I am proud to have had him for 25 years. Bijan was my best friend and teacher. Every time he would hear me complain or not at my best he would say, mommy, youre better than that. It was humbling. And i was and i loved him for that. Even now i use my words and choose my actions, wanting to make him proud. I pray to bijan every day to help me be a better person and not sink into anger and despair. Bijan deserves justice. Body cameras do one important job. One job. They give us the truth, not a version of alternative truth. We are your eyes. We are your voice. We are your heart. We are bijan. I am forever bijan. Thank you. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Arthur ago to testify. Good afternoon, chairman cox, Ranking Member gonzalezcolon, and members of the subcommittee. My name is arthur ago, and i serve as the director of the criminal Justice Project at the Lawyers Committee for civil rights under law. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the use of in the wake of the killings of george floyd, these Rihanna Taylor and far too many other people of color, and tens of millions of americans have taken to the streets to rise up against police abuse and violence and misconduct. What it simply we need transformative change, for the floyd systems of Police Accountability and trans parents say. The department of the interior, Law Enforcement agencies have failed to implement many of the basic forms that increase accountability and transparency. One first step to transformative change is straightforward. Acquired that the departments Law Enforcement agencies, provide dashboard cameras, and do so under rules and policies. With few other federal Law Enforcement agencies requiring officers to report what they do while on duty, the Department Also has a chance to lead the way across the federal government, and to set an example for other federal agencies to follow. As youve heard from missed his case are, one of the agencies, is one of impunity. They should not have had to file a federal lawsuit, to get the names of the two police park officers who killed her son. One and if not for the Fairfax County police, the public nor the family would have had any recorded the video of what those two offices did two years ago. It was a fight to release the basic information to the case ours. Change is needed, and it is needed urgently. As i stated in my written testimony, this is not an isolated example. This occurred at the hands of several Law Enforcement officers. The research is clear, if officers are not given clear orders on what they must record, and if officers are not disciplined when they failed to follow those orders, Police Cameras fail in safeguarding and accountability and transparency. In fact one study shows that the use of force naturally increased, when officers were given discretion on what and went to record. Common sense principles that protect the integrity of the process, there must be a set of clear policies so the public can review, and there must be strict limits on officer discretion on want to record. There must be timely disclosure of camera footage, when there are allegations the. These are only a few examples of policies in which there is widespread consensus. There is no shortage of examples or successful programs to which this cannot look. The Law Enforcement agency should not be a stain on the proud history and tradition of the department of the interior. These Law Enforcement agencies should not be allowed to stay behind basic police and state reforms. This is a common sense reform. The public and Law Enforcement officers, support body cameras. Nothing will bring back case our or the pain that his family continues to suffer. But robust policies, governing cameras and their use, will be a first step to bringing these agencies out of the past, and making them more accountable and transparent. For the people that they are sworn to serve and protect. We can thank you very much. Thank you, and the chair will now recognize, for his testimony. Good afternoon chairman cox and members of the subcommittee my name is larry. We are the non profit professional association, representing the interests of the Law Enforcement officers in the United States. There are more than 29,000 members, and agencies including those of the department of interior. They are tasked with the Important Mission of protecting the millions of peoples. For more than 27 years i have served as federal Law Enforcement officer, as a special agent within Homeland Security within u. S. Customs and immigration. At the apartment at the department of Homeland Security. I served the American People as required by the constitution of the United States and the laws passed by congress. As a federal Law Enforcement officer my responsibilities and obligations were identical to those of the brave men and women that comprise the Law Enforcement components of the department of the interior. The department of interiors Law Enforcement officers are tasked with an enormous mission that includes sights and locations at some of the most valuable natural and man made resources and treasures. They are also targets of terrorist, international criminals, anarchists, arsonists, thieves, vandals and others that are focused on nefarious conduct and crime. Our nations heritage is tied to those National Treasures and it should be our nations priority and goal to protect them and ensure that we use them as theyre also protected. Unfortunately, over the past few months, the doi properties have not been spared on justice and fairness. Washington, d. C. , in particular, we have seen large scale protest and is riots that occur in doicontrolled property and experienced a heavy toll of the actions of these anarchists, rioters with destruction and devastation. We have seen memorials, buildings, parks, all occurring while the Law Enforcement officers in the department of interior had been tasked with managing and responding to the destruction. Which is in part the reason of this hearing today. Inflammatory fivesecond videos, inaccurate news reports and false social media posts have been used over the past four months to taint Law Enforcement efforts of the federal Law Enforcement officers in america, including the department of interior. While those commentaries begin to dominate reporting on these incidents, they do not capture the officers experience. Its easy to scrutinize officers based on viral videos, but an officer must rely on whats in front of them in a splitsecond decision, based on training that maximize Public Safety. It brings to this hearing the question of Body Worn Cameras as a Law Enforcement tool for Law Enforcement officers and the department of interior. As a general rule, some of this can be used as an effective tool to protect Law Enforcement officers and those individuals they interact with and it has evidentiary value. But one thing i want to highlight in my testimony is the communication issues that the department of interior has in its inadequate funding of the Communication System that should go hand and hand with Body Worn Cameras. We have to understand the Financial Impact on these agencies that will be enormous and maintaining these Body Worn Cameras and also the ability for these Body Worn Cameras, the purchase of the hardware, the reviewing and the implementation of the policies that need to be consistent across the board with these Body Worn Cameras and maintaining these just like maintaining vehicles that government and Law Enforcement use every day when theyre patrolling their areas of responsibilities. And also the training and potential Pilot Programs must first be funded and implemented prior to any component or department rolling out a servicewide Body Worn Camera policy. The disclosure of records must also be addressed and for the disclosure and the privacy of the individuals that are encountered during the Law Enforcement officers work. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify today and im proud to represent the federal Law Enforcement officers of the United States. Thank you and i look forward to your questions. Thank you so much. The chair will recognize mr. Jim northrop for his testimony. Chairman cox and members of the subcommittee, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I serve on the executive council of the coalition to protect Americas National parks. The coalition is a Nonprofit Organization composed of more than 1800 retired, former and current employees of the National Park service who collectively have nearly 40,000 years of experience in managing and protecting National Parks and National Park visitors. I personally worked for the National Park service for over 36 years, 24 of those years as a Law Enforcement commissioned ranger. I worked as a field ranger, supervised Law Enforcement commissioned rangers at National Parks and served as the chief ranger at Great Smoky Mountains park. For the last twelve years, i served as a park superintendent providing oversight to the resource and visitor protection programs including Law Enforcement that Picture Rocks shore. The coalition is supported within the department of the interior. We believe in rigorous professional standards for Law Enforcement programs and strongly support the use of incar and body camera systems by doi, Law Enforcement officers and park rangers. The coalition is also an advocate for periodic evaluation of programs against accepted professional standards by thirdparty accrediting organizations. As was mentioned earlier, within the park service there are two groups with responsibility for Law Enforcement functions within our National Parks. The u. S. Park police who serve primarily in the more urban parts of washington, d. C. , new york and San Francisco. And u. S. National park rangers who are duty stationed in the other units of the National Park system. Both groups function as fully commissioned federal Law Enforcement officers. I think it would be of interest to the committee to know that incar Video Systems have been in use by park rangers in numerous parks for many years and more recently the use of body cameras by National Park rangers has also become more widespread. The National Park service has advised me at last count that body cameras were in use by over 1,000 commissioned rangers in over 100 parks. Though not mandatory, the nps has been supportive of the use of incar and body camera systems by field rangers. They are strongly supported by management and field rangers. We do understand that based on a 2015 memorandum, the u. S. Park police do not use Body Worn Cameras at this time. I can tell you from my personal experience that while video footage of a Law Enforcement encounter never tells the entire story of an incident, it does provide critically Important Information about incidents where almost everyone is under a great deal of stress, there are conflicting perspectives, and memories are known to be faulty. I have personally used this information to review use of force incidents, arrest procedures and complaints filed against rangers. These systems promote professionalism and protect Law Enforcement officers. However, we agree with the 2018 Inspector Generals report that the dois policies on the use of this equipment needs to be more fully developed and be consistent with accepted professional standards. The departments policy on Law Enforcement has been silent on this issue for too long. Resulting in an individual bureaus each developing their own policies. We believe the igs report contains excellent recommendations for how this program should be implemented throughout the department. While we strongly support the use of this equipment, we also believe that this cannot be an Unfunded Mandate from congress. I can tell you that the parks that do not have an incar or Body Camera Program likely do not have one because they simply cant support one within current park budgets. If Congress Wants to see the doi use this equipment consistently throughout all of the bureaus, Congress Must provide the funding necessary to properly manage the program, purchase the equipment, provide the training, maintain the equipment, manage the data by accepted professional standards and effectively manage the freedom of information act requests and other issues release issues associated with the gathering of this information. The coalition to protect Americas National parks believes that the use of both incar and body cam systems by the department of interior Law Enforcement officers and park rangers is imperative to having a Law Enforcement program that is totally professional, transparent, accountable to and trusted by the public. Thank you for the opportunity to comment today and i would be happy to answer any questions you have from me. Thank you. Thank you so much. And exactly why were meeting here today. I want to thank the panel for their testimony and remind members of the committee that Committee Rule 3d imposes a fiveminute limit on questions. And the chair will now recognize members for any questions they may wish to ask the witnesses and well begin with myself. In your testimony you mentioned that the two u. S. Park police came to your door the night bijan was killed and told you that bijan had been in an quote unquote shootout and they would meet you at the hospital. Not only was there no shootout, since your son was completely unarmed, but the officers never met you or came to meet you at the hospital. And i think i speak for any reasonable person when i say that the u. S. Park Police Officers treatment toward you that night was abhorrent. Can you tell us a bit more about how they treated you after that night . Did they treat you with professionalism that you expect from a Law Enforcement unit and how did they treat how did the way that the park police treat you compare to the way that the Fairfax Police department treated you . Thank you for that question. Well, actually, that night when the detectives came to our house, as you mentioned, they told us bijan was in a shootout, which was a lie to begin with. They also told us that they would go back to the scene and they would meet us at the hospital to explain more. We never ever saw those two detectives again. In fact, we never met anyone from the park Police Expect the day that chief mcclain came to the waiting room to tell us three days later, hes turning over the case to the fbi. Thanks so much for that. Did the park police ever acknowledge that they killed your son . Is that something that is even in dispute . Well the park police has never acknowledged the fact that their officers shot and killed my son. They have never held a meeting, a press conference, anything to let my family or the public know of what happened to bijan, ever. That night in the hospital, when we got to the hospital, as i said in my opening statement, the doctor told us that bijan was being guarded and he was evidence, as they put it. And when we got really sad and started crying, they let us visit with bijan for ten minutes and as i mentioned, that bijan would be guarded. As far as treatment, i dont know what more could be crueller than that. So i would say the treatment was inhumane and awful. Thank you. And mr. Argo, youre a former public defender. In that capacity, did you have any experience or knowledge of the u. S. Park police and can you tell us me, what would be the perception among your former colleagues of the u. S. Park polices representation for fair and just policing. Thank you for your question, chairman cox. I was a public defender for close to 20 years in washington, d. C. As supervisor and ultimately the chief of the Trial Division of the Public Defenders Service and unfortunately the United States park police had by far the worst reputation of all of the Law Enforcement agencies that operated within the nations capital. They had the reputation of violating Constitutional Rights of people they arrested and an agency did not keep records, did not appear to follow guidelines, did not provide any records to the public for review. And that reputation was confirmed by the United StatesAttorneys Office who would frequently dismisses cases involving the United States park service. Thanks so much for that. Also, with a reputation like that, would it be fair to say that focusing on better accountability and transparency at the park police would be a good place to start and certainly would wearing body cameras help with that . It is an absolutely necessary. First step, chairman cox, that transparency and accountability begin at the United States park police and Body Worn Cameras and dashboard cameras are a first step. Thank you so much. With that, i will yield to my Ranking Member. Representative gonzalez colon. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i begin, i need to send my deepest sympathies to ms. Ms. Ghaisar. That should never happen. You never expect Law Enforcement officers to be involved in Something Like that. Im deeply sorry about it. I want to say, in light of your testimony you highlighted the Financial Impact of Body Worn Camera program as one of the issues that need to be discussed today. I would like to walk through some of the different costs associated with implementing a Body Worn Camera program. Im not too much related with the issue itself in terms of financially how much is the maintenance and how this can be used and supported. Lets begin with the initial cost. What is the typical range of costs of purchase a Body Worn Camera . It depends on the technology and the hardware. But the range goes from anywhere between 150 to about 1,500 dollars per hardware, per officer. Youre talking about 1,000 pieces of hardware multiplying it by that amount, depending on the quality of the camera itself. Besides the hardware, you have the software. Thats where it gets tricky. The Software Needs upgrades yearly and these companies, these private companies that sell these products have a licensing fee. The hardware applies for each item that you purchase, you have to buy the licensing and a Software Upgrades to keep up with the technology on this. And also it involves the training of the personnel and the deployment and how to download the data and how to separate it for evidentiary purposes. In that same sense, i know that many of the Law Enforcement officers at the department of interior work in different commissions, outdoor conditions, and others. Is the cost of this equipment different from my other Law Enforcement if they work in the department of interior or it should be the same . Actually, its higher because of the nature of the conditions that theyre working in. For example, fish and wildlife officers, they work in conditions, when the equipment becomes defective, you have to get it replaced. You have to factor in the replacement factor for the cost of each individual officer. Don beyer jr. And youre saying about the department of interior. Should every officer receive their own body camera . Whats the benefit of having a specific assigning body cameras to officers instead of having them changing whose officers are using them daily . Don beyer jr. I think its important for proper maintenance and also just like any tool that an officer gets issued or an Agency Within the department of interior, or a vehicle, per se. It is in your equipment, Law Enforcement officer and its the responsibility of that officer to make sure that they properly maintain and keep up with it. Question, once you purchase the camera and were talking about the maintenance, what are the costs expected to for the storage of all of the data that can be captured . Youre talking in the millions. You have to utilize a cloud. Besides the cloud, you have to have personnel that is required to save specific snippets of the footage that is obtained during an encounter. If were talking about millions of dollars in equipment, and the data storage and everything, but how can that happen if you defund the police . Absolutely not. Im supportive of it also, like you are. Im supportive of it, but if you want to defund the police and departments, its never going to get you anywhere in terms of Body Worn Cameras. The departments are not going to have the ability to purchase them. You said that in your testimony that you were generally supportive of the Body Worn Cameras. Is there any situation that you feel that Body Worn Camera may not be appropriate . Absolutely. We support as we support four Patrol Officers were daily routine basis and power programs back on capitol hill also on capitol hill for the police when their interview witnesses or interviewing confidential informants that come forward for crime. Thank you. My time expired i yield back. Thank you so much. Now we will recognize in order of seniority, well start with representative buyer from virginia. Thurman cox thank you very much. Allowing me to be here. And of course for having this hearing and for staying on top of this issue for almost the last two years. And her husband james thank you for having the courage of agreeing to be here. We are still seeking justice for beyond. You mentioned in your testimony that the park police has not even started an internal investigation of the shooting. For, years my office along with others we have asked in person and with written communications for the department to this engage in a holistic review and weve never had a satisfactory answer. I first was no, the fbi has to investigate we have to wait for them. And after the fbi investigation, we hear that we have to wait for all the legal cases that go through the courts. This is been almost three years in another month. Is that justice . Hello how are you . Well, know this is not justice. Definitely we have not seen nor had any justice from our police in the past two and a half years. I can tell you that they are the most secretive, they are the most guarded, they are the most Unbelievable Police unit ever. And ive made my life to research about Police Brutality and Police Cameras and everything regarding the police for whatever the reason have kept this under wraps. They even kept their officers names until almost a year and a half after jewish shot. We had to get the names from a judge through a civil lawsuit. That is shameful, very shameful. Thank you very much. Mr. Norfolk, mr. Cosby, thank you both for coming and for speaking very eloquently about the needs and its for the successful body camera and dash camera program. It does cost a lot of money. And there is months after his murder, i met with the chief, who committed to me that the park police would be adding cameras and an added funds. We have worked every year since then to ensure they have the funds. The idea that democrats would defund the police is a fox news myth. We are not doing that at all. In the summer, when we worked we got money from the house of progressives why the park service would not adopt body cameras, just after we passed a bill, his answer was nothing, no answer. So mr. Iowa, you speak about the importance of accountability. It takes over half a year for a park journalist to return of a simple letter from barr track services is backtracked on its own promise to get body camera up and running. Please cannot tell us about body cameras, they are not legitimate excuses. We are frustrated and how do we build a counter middle uptown ability into her department refuses to take it . And we need new leadership that will take that more seriously . Thank you congressman buyer and thank you for your leadership on the issue of Body Worn Cameras in the federal government and particular in the federal police along with leadership of congressman post norton. Thank you both of. That absolutely, the park police needs to be more accountable and transparent. The benefit of having this subcommittee hearing is so that the issues can be aired out and discussed and so that the subcommittee can provide guidelines tied to funding to the department of the interior to create that type of accountability and transparency starting with frankly the leadership of the park police and the troubling history of acting chief moynahan. So the answer your question, it is yes. Congressman buyer. Thank you for everything. Mr. Norfolk, i have a simple question for you to as well. 36 years as a park service and 24 as a ranger. Im the only member of congress that was a park ranger, fully for less than a year. But for all those years as a lock and enforcement commissioner ranger, to stan is, do we need the park police, or should they be invaded integrated in the other service. Mueller are distinctive roles for the park police and National Park rangers. As i mentioned in my testimony, the u. S. Park police our duty station primarily in the urban parks, like in washington d. C. , in San Francisco and new york. They are focused almost exclusively, not exclusively, but almost exclusively on performing Law Enforcement. National park rangers on the other hand ive taken great pride for many years in being what i call a multi skilled specialist. They perform Law Enforcement, they are fully trained and equipped and commissioned as officers but they also perform emergency medical services, search and rescue, fire fighting, and performing a number of other Public Safety duties. So the job descriptions are a little different in large part because of the environments in which the park police and the park ranges work. Well thank you so much. The chairs is now going to recognize again a stallone. I have questions i was asking mr. A few minutes ago about the body cameras. Is there any limit of the use of this camera and who did and identify them when theres an interview of a potential witness, maybe not now but the list of limitations they are association not to use these body cameras . When you have victims of crime, when you are also trying, and particularly have a crime that can use a confidential informant or even people who are associated with the crime itself, could be multiple conspirators, when you are trying to elicit information. If you have Body Worn Cameras and youre trying to deal with that situation and you make it capable for those individuals to cooperate with the Law Enforcement officer. Just to make it clear, how does wearing a body camera make an impact for officers daytoday operations . The cost of the training that should be expected to be provided with the conjunction it with the use of the cameras. Can you explains the difference between them . The daytoday training. Sure, the point of the cameras involves different training, ongoing training. The technology changes, its always evolving, just as we buy a computer its the same thing. When you Download Software or, those people who are responsible for maintaining the software, are responsible for were talking a very expensive product. Most of the time theres these false allegations when theres false allegations made against officers, and talking we dont want to talk about the current matters in front of the committee, but in most cases it does, help its been beneficial. Its a recurrent cost for maintaining the training, outfitting new officers with new cameras as the Technology Gets better with time. Question i do. Have in order to manage beta, its slightly to hire additional people to manage maintenance or the data. Absolutely. I hire professionals who are experts in this area to help the officers, youre talking thousands of officers in any particular jurisdiction. It takes a lot of time and it takes the officers, technically officers download their data at the end of their shift. So what happens is that timeframe its time that the officers are not out in the field. And not doing their job in their areas of responsibility. See do higher professionals in these areas. There are issues that also quantify the amount of money in order to maintain. Does that include that that person freedom information act. Thats correct freedom of information act weathers a specific case or someone just specific clearing of time during where the data was captured. You have to hire a lot of people for that. Question. He should be having experience because some of the other agencies have this infrastructure, i want you to walk me through what the Infrastructure Requirements are necessary for successfully Body Worn Camera. What kind of technology to the common we need to have access to . Is it different from department to department . Thats correct. It is different depending on the department and its subcommittee components. Depending on the train youre working on. Like the department of the interior, like official wildlife officers that are on different terrain. Theyre in a more rural terrain. Theyre in the bigger cities in more metropolitan areas, so the type of hardware theyre gonna utilize no situations is different. Also recurrent training and also whats going to be released you have to factor all that in in terms of the total amount of money that is used to maintain. This but in your testimony you resist an issue of to review it and disclosed the recordings on body cameras. So in your opinion, which officer should have access to footage and once it i think the body cameras should have the ability to review the footage and what they should do is make a copy of the original footage, stored in the cloud, and have the ability to look at it like someone referred to, when you see footage writing in an incident report, ultimately they are responsible for the original footage and that is the key, to safeguard that original footage and safeguard that. Thank you. We recognize our colleague from the district. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for allowing a member of the committee or the subcommittee. Thank you for your attention to the issue all along. Question for Kelly Ghaisar. We worked closely with a family that has coordinated to make sure justice is done, they have made sure this matter is resolved, we worked closely together after tragic death, to get body cameras in the now pending. Justice and policing, that notion of body cameras, to be passed at some point because it has bipartisan support. In light of the work being done on federal dashboard cameras, can you speak to the importance it has been, the importance to you to have that legislation passed for the dashboard cameras in light of what the family is going through. Thank you for that. Had we not had the camera, Police Officers would not have had that. Maintaining that, watching that, Police Officers, does not show that. That is how important the cameras are. To explain why they cannot be implemented. Enough in the budget for simple body camera. The transparency, to be thankful for half an hour. Yes indeed. The cost of this hearing, cost of a life . I am appalled at the excuses that i hear. Four body cameras and dashcams and a federal officer, federal officers do not have the budget implemented. The only reason is they dont want to be transparent, period. These cameras here, importantly there is overwhelmingly overwhelming support by both police and members of the public, this should not be controversial or be controversial, just needs to be done, the policing act, to pass the senate, given the region, can you please say to us what the Park Police Officers refusal to implement such a program that continued to impact your family and you. Remember we raised them to get a Pilot Program. If you could see that program what does it do to your program . It would mean the world. Ready and willing to change and be more transparent. The fact that committee, refused to even participate in the pilots program. Everything there is to know. The chairs discretion, all the members have an opportunity to get those questions, recognize our colleagues from virginia. Thank you to the panel for joining us here today, thank you for sharing the story with us. And still have no closure. Those who are not aware, criminal defense attorney, appreciate the roles everybody plays in keeping the Community Safe and arthur ago, pds has a National Reputation for having one of the finest defenders in the agency in the country, fighting for peoples rights, and officer in custody, thank you for your service, appreciate what you have done for our country and important to remember to keep communities safe. Transparency and accountability for Law Enforcement. Officers act under clearly defined general orders to pursue policies. You agree body cameras when used properly, with whom officers themselves, is that correct . Yes i do. To have dashboard cameras and things like that. And training policies. Have you had an opportunity to do that dashboard camera . Yes i have. Been that footage you observe the officers and other parts had their guns drawn, is that best practice . Typically it is not initial best practice. They have no evidence the person may be harmed or threatening to them. I dont want to comment on that situation because i dont know the fatality or circumstances. I dont know the fatality of that but as a general rule it is not best practice. It is generally best practice to slam your firearm into the one of the windows . I dont know the specifics of that case but in general no one should be slamming their firearm into anything but i wasnt had the specific incident and dont want to comment specifically on this on the incidence of reviewing it. Generally to kick an automobile is not best practice, is that correct . I dont want to judge the officers, dont know the fatality of the circumstances but in general thats not the rule. Footage might explain why an officer was not doing anything. It can but it is not the final solution, sometimes you have different angles. I will reclaim my time because im running out. Our offices trained to shoot at vehicles that are driving away from from . Every department has different policies and some could be permitted to shoot at vehicles. Most policies they dont. Most policies prohibit driving, shooting at vehicles that are moving away from them. Unless someones life is in danger. Going to the process is it difficult to separate suspect as witnesses before they speak to Law Enforcement, separate them from one another in the same incident . Yes to bigley. The purpose is to make sure they are not getting the stories straight . Yes. Are you aware they rode back to the station together after killing . Im not aware of that. Are you aware the park police changed the policy after the shooting . I am not aware of that. A typical investigation as a result of, investigation concurrently, the current investigations . Typically what happened is is if there is a common investigation that goes first and disciplinary action goes afterwords. My time has expired. We will have an opportunity to dig into this subject further. Back to Ranking Member representative gonzalez jenniffer gonzalezcolon. It is important, those not using or implementing, i want to make that clear. I do support officers who use it but i understand as well, there is no option this camera was not working with a shortage footage was not available. Or chains of evidence. Actually this is the hearing you are having, implementing an idea that i support again. That falls against the issue. How you have been implementing this equipment and body cameras Funding Resources for acquiring this equipment so i have another question related to the footage used as evidence, your testimony raised a point, in what context can you provide, how can we ensure the custody of the chain . What happens is sometimes you have prosecutors and defense lawyers representing their clients requesting footage on certain incidents and that takes time, not as easy as snapping your finger, looking at thousands of hours of footage on the federal prosecution level, trying to ascertain specific footage, get to the specific footage you are looking for. It is difficult to decide who is going to do that. That the manpower resource issue. When you are doing federal prosecution. On the local level a set team of folks, talking to Law Enforcement, they have dedicated folks who handle that question. You said in your testimony that should be implemented prior to the rollout of the department. Why do we need a Pilot Program when you have other federal officers in other departments already . It is specific to that department and it is important for stakeholders which are the officers on the front line report back to their command staff and say this is working, this is not in terms of quality of camera hardware, quality of the actual software and what is compiled during the Pilot Program whoever is dedicated in their chain of command. The department of the interior, which of them if any . Which of them should be doing it . The other bonus that has it. Retired from the department of Homeland Security, in a couple of subcomponents across the board reporting and 6month of what is going on with that date and the hardware they purchased initially. There is no money that can be changed. And that is needed to promote transparency moving forward to implementing this idea. The agency is not compliant. I have several other questions, my time is expired so i yield back. Thank you so much. We will have another round of questions. Lazaro cosme, you look just like robert they niro, which might give your testimony a little more gravid us. I want to bring up a point. When i used to be a high school record, they would tell me if you are not Getting Better every day you are getting worse. You are Getting Better or you are getting worse. I dont want to construe the sentiments of requiring improvement to our police force, i dont support the cops. Is that something you agree we should be striving towards Getting Better each and every day . It is important to get better every day, support the individual, i wrestle i see where you are going. The support, i agree. The bill passed by the house, democrats supported increases in the policing program. I want to be clear here that body cameras and dashboard cameras, in the heroes act which is waiting on republicans to accept that the majority are heroes, Police Officers, firefighters and so on. There is broad support about people keeping the Community Safe but we want to Work Together to engender more trust. It is our commitment that more accountability, more transparency would engender more trust. What are your thoughts on that . It is important of her all to hear more trust but also that Law Enforcement officers here from elected officials for many side of the spectrum that they are supported when their attacks like the ones being attacked, peaceful protest turned into riots, being attacked by bricks, toxic substances and unknown liquids, we support them in that area and i support funding for men and women being represented. That is important to the job. Thank you so much. I want to thank Kelly Ghaisar for being here, it takes strength to turn a personal tragedy, to make sure Something Like this never happens again but more remarkable because of families that are going to benefit from your efforts, likely never know about your efforts but thank you again. The lessons we learn from specific confrontations with Law Enforcement. I want to ask about another one. Two rangers from management approached the van, engaged with Eugene Bayless inside the van. They tried to secure and pull the gun from the holster and body footage, body camera footage show he threw the gun, bayless fired first, there was an exchange of gunfire leaving bayless dead. The evidence, it was essential in determining the facts and charges will be pressed against the ranger. Arthur ago, what do incidents like this tell us about body cameras and what does it say about the need for new policies . It shows the importance of body cameras and rules and regulations surrounding their use and in particular it shows Police Officers acting in a manner that are reasonable or consistent with protecting the Public Health and safety will be exonerated in situations they use Necessary Force as a result of an assault on them. It supports the Police Officers in this situation. Same question for jim northup. And what incident would the rangers feel that . I am not familiar with that. I am relying on what you just said. I can only echo what arthur ago said that Body Worn Cameras are instrumental in understanding what occurred and why it occurred and why it exonerates officers not only in serious situations like you just described but sometimes pretty routine complaints. I have been able to use footage from camera systems to clear complaints about rangers that were unfounded, absolutely serve the public interest. I will yield my time and my colleague. Really fun to call you chairman cox. You talk about the importance of transparency. I am fortunate to represent Ruben Jennings where we have high standards. I want to compare the transparency and the park service because we have the best video dashcam, not from the park police. We have mafia plaza, they gave us insight into the infamous bunker bible photo shoot from the park police. Where i live, 80 officers completed Mental Health and everybody that lives in the city. Arthur ago, the last time we met, park police lost the confidence of the communities. Everybody in Northern Virginia knows about that. Too many people watched the tragic video. Explain why transparency is important for a tool for policing and how they can begin to rebuild that . I appreciate your remarks, transparency is crucial and goes handinhand with accountability. It creates good policing, police serve and protect, whose officers promote the health and safety of people of this community begin to work handinhand with police to provide services that are necessary to use chairman coxs phrase to be better every day. That is what accountability and transparency provides, this comes from the top, from leadership that is welcoming of accountability, transparency, there is no real controversy i see in this subcommittee. Everyone is supporting body cameras, proper rules and regulations. We would argue with some of the things mister cox suggested has proper rules and regulations. Having said that the idea of proper rules and regulations are necessary. The problem with Us Park Police, the trauma to the family, their approach and attitude towards transparency and accountability as opposed to Fairfax CountyVirginia Police and their conduct. We are proud of our police and we know right away that park police had a policy about use of force with officers and still no accountability. Lazaro cosme talked about funding issues. We appropriated and and acted 16 billion for the fiscal year ending tomorrow and 9 billion offer of already the doesnt have to be appropriate, 24 billion. You wrote about how theres an undivided reliable radio system, no idea of the status of the Communication System. What is going on . You cant body cameras. That is the ongoing question. I sent letters to the committee to do a general inquiry to ask what is going on. The men and women i represent reported back to me and my board of directors and they dont have adequate Communication System. I am glad you are highlighting that because lets face it, you may have the ability to have a Body Worn Camera or dashcam video but if you dont have the ability to communicate in a scenario where someone is having a heart attack, cannot communicate for firstaid we have a problem. I have yet to get reasonable answers for that. Thats an issue we need to address with Body Worn Cameras. Business and Political Leadership are not the same but if it were my business or my department, how to figure out to make it better. I yield back. The chair will now recognize representative Eleanor Holmes norton. She stepped out so we will recognize a great colleague from virginia, representative wexton. Lazaro cosme, i would like to pick up where we left off talking about criminal investigations, generally the criminals are first and internal. With that internal investigation pending is it Standard Practice in a case where officers were involved in a Fatal Shooting in the line of duty is it Standard Practice to have those officers assigned to administrative duties when not coming in contact with the public during that time . Defense, each circumstances different but Standard Practice they take administrative duties on pending the outcome of the matter. Would it surprise you to hear although it has been going on for three years whether it be criminal or internal investigation after only six months officers were placed back on patrol duty, is that surprising to you . Every department has different policies internally. I am familiar with the policies of the workplace. Even though the park police were insisting these officers were on administrative duty, Kelly Ghaisars family made the civil discovery those reported in the Washington Post they were back on patrol since april of 2018 and in a patrol car patrolling together at the same time which is another issue with getting the story straight so those things give me concern. Arthur ago, does it give you path that these officers are working on a daily basis on patrol . It certainly would for the reason you stated. The only reason we have any information at all is not because of park polices transparency or disclosures in this case, they stonewalled since day one and continue to stonewall 3 years later. From Fairfax County police department, the dashcam video, transparency and in the public interest, as we heard today, park police, releasing any information to the family including the 9 one one recording that got this whole thing started. How has this stonewalling affected your family, what impact does it have on the family . It has been awful. Our son was killed by park police in federal practice and federal officers, been lied to and stonewalled information. They have even prohibited them, the investigation, to attend a grand jury if ever by Fairfax County prosecutors. I dont know how much cover up, lying and stonewalling could come out of the police or the department of justice as i like to call it and it has affected us because not only that, unbelievable nonreason, we have been lied to over and over again, by trusting our government, trusting our system, completely gone. We dont trust anyone. Please think about the use of our country. Think about the 20yearolds that have seen this over and over and young family friends, why . Why cant we just say if this is what happened, this is the truth, we are sorry, what can we do, lets make it right . Why cant we do that . Why has our government instead i have to be sitting here talking to this panel, body camera, are we doing this today . This is how it has affected my family. Must be horrible for you and i hope you find justice and the we take steps to prioritize getting body cameras and data storage to federal Law Enforcement officers so no other family has to go through this. I yield back, mister chairman. We are going to start the third round of questioning, any other members, who wish to address any other issues. At the end of july this Committee Held a second hearing to examine the park Police Attacks on Peaceful Protesters in lafayette square, the infamous attack that preceded Donald Trumps unwelcome sacrilegious photo op with the bible in front of st. Johns church. The acting chief of park police testified at that hearing, defended the park polices actions, directly contradicted the testimony of National Guard whistleblower adamant a marco and others who were present that day, no question if Us Park Police were wearing body cameras it would clear up conflicting reports of that day but as we discussed the park police have not implemented Body Worn Cameras and prohibited officers from using them at times so arthur ago, do you believe park Police Resistance to Body Worn Cameras reflect a broader resistance to transparency and accountability . Yes i do thank you for your question. I would note the concerning difficulties of Radio Communication, park police did not report Radio Communication providing less transparency than we should have as the american public. That is a great point as well, several workplace issues, the lack of diversity including inclusion and what we learned is even with that all season place the dysfunctional culture of the workplace will not change unless proper leadership makes a commitment to doing so and in your testimony you mentioned the concerns about monahans history. Describe that in more detail. 20 years ago acting chief monahan when he was a Patrol Officer was found to have committed constitutional violations without accountability and transparency the result was mister monahan was not disciplined and rose to the level of chief or supervisor in the internal Affairs Commission and subsequently, you see the problem with a lack of accountability allowing someone who has the history and disciplinary problems chief monahan had to reach the top level of this Important Police force and it trickles down in terms of attitudes and perspectives the police force itself has in Us Park Police has for accountability and transparency which is tragically being experienced by Kelly Ghaisars family. Thank you for putting your lifetime at risk. I appreciate it. Changing the dysfunctional culture of the workplace and what needs to be done in the department of the interior. Thank you for the question. I must tell you my 36 year career at the National Park service was wonderful. The cultural challenge, many of us were committed not just to the Law Enforcement programs but management and operation as a whole. I had a positive experience working for the National Park service but i appreciate concerns raised by the committee. I can tell you i dont have personal knowledge of some of the incidents you are focusing on and the coalition thinks it would be inappropriate to comment on cases that are currently being both criminally and civilly investigated and adjudicated but having said that i feel a need to say members have expressed significant concern about the way these matters of been handled and we are interested in seeing all Law Enforcement department in the department of interior become more open, more transparent. These are public agencies and with narrow exceptions public agencies over to the public to explain what they have done and why theyve done it and the coalition to protect america National Parks supports that effort. I want to make the point we talked about the cost of body cameras and better telecommunications systems, these are not costs, these are investments that got real return, societal and economic benefits. I will yield my time and we will go to Ranking Member i cannot agree more and i think we should do it properly and to ensure what happened to the family of Kelly Ghaisar will never happen again, one life is enough and nobody should be exposed to this situation in the process for that adjustment but in that sense, this hearing, the title of this hearing is Police Cameras so i am doing the questions in line of what the hearings was about. The issue and i agree on the issue of investing. Having said that, one last question. Every time you get republicans and democrats in favor of this issue of investing in cameras and security, you were saying in your testimony regarding sometimes privacy when they are defining goals, the only concern, i want to be clear because i read your testimony, you said privacy is a concern about that. You said the aclu has a concern about privacy issues related to cameras. What privacy issues for the public . Lazaro cosme. I wasnt sure it was for me. The public in general, you have hepa laws and responding to a medical issue, may have a medical condition and you ask about their medical condition and this is captured by body camera and this was reported by the membership and thats an issue we need to be careful with acrosstheboard because these individuals need to be aware that to be recorded, how do you segregate that stuff from the body cam footage . You have federal officers who do use body cameras. That should not be different from the ones implemented. I want to say thank you. I appreciate the experience and concerns of how to deal with this. I truly understand, you cant defund the police and expect the equipment that is needed for transparency and protect transparency in that sense, i want to say thank you to the witness. It is not easy when your son is not around to talk about crimes that appeared that should never happen. I feel touched and i hope the committee can do something to prevent this from happening. Having said that i yield back my time. The chair will recognize representative buyer from virginia. Thanks for the free round and representative jenniffer gonzalezcolon, thank you for hanging out with us. I prefer your leadership. Referencing you are right that we dont want to defund the police, these things would not be possible. We probably dont need to buy as many rocket launchers and tanks and heat raise on radio and body cameras and things like that. Arthur ago, Robert Mclean was chief of the park police when Kelly Ghaisar was murdered. I dont want to engage in ad hominem attacks but does it make sense if you are the manager and you lose every day that you get promoted the next year or you are the head of the department that goes bankrupt they get promoted to run the country . Was after that disaster to move them into chief Law Enforcement officer . I cant speak to the structural failures how he got promoted to that position but clearly there are structural failures. Someone that has under his watch overseen by all appearances the unnecessary killing of a citizen and coupled with a cover up that followed shows that he does not have the leadership skills that are necessary to oversee a growing number of Law Enforcement officers. I am troubled by that without knowing anything from the inside it is troubling from the outside to speak to the issue of transparency. It troubles many of us. Beyond license plates, the park police were chasing him at 45 miles an hour, do you think the fact that his name was not bill or tom or richard had an impact on what the police were thinking . Yes. I do. When he was in the hospital and they thought, because you have a mild accent that you are a muslim, did that affect the way they treated you when you visit him when he was on life support . Yes. I would like to go further on that, the Police Detectives knocked on our door on november 2, 07, they showed us the one and only tattoo which was as if like one and i told them stopped it from looming. I have no idea but i found it very inappropriate. They had his license plate. Im sure by then they know who he was. Showing a that particular tattoo was so inappropriate and the fact they thought he was middle eastern absolutely. You think they thought of as the formula for a Nuclear Weapon . That seems a sad way. I apologize. No worries. Jim northup, with the bible incident and clearing of the crowd suggested the heat break, pellets and gas and things like that if park police had body cameras would be easier to reconcile what happened . Yes. Final code on the conversation for me. I yield back. Thank you. The thing our other members, we have a bit of time, the last 5 minutes to allow our witnesses a minute 15 apiece for any thoughts or final words themselves, to go in alphabetical order and then finish up with Kelly Ghaisar. I dont want to take much time away, this is her moment to speak and i want to emphasize the subcommittee and congress, as well as congress has a real opportunity to be the leader in implementing body cameras across federal Law Enforcement writ large by forces overseen by the part of the interior. I would ask the subcommittee to take this opportunity to take advantage of this moment and become a leader. Thank you so much for being here and thank you for your service to our country. Appreciate it. This is for Kelly Ghaisar. Any shooting incident from Law Enforcement is a tragedy and we know we cant replace a tragic loss to you and mothers love is forever and we understand that and want you to hear that message and tell you as discussed during this hearing body cameras are an important tool for Law Enforcement but not an absolute solution. It may what occurred to your son, i want you to know that we feel your pain and it is a tragic loss and we understand that and i want to relay that to you. Thank you, for allowing me to speak. Thank you. Jim northup. We appreciate the hearing today and i will be brief and say we support rigorous standards for Law Enforcement operations in the department of the interior. We support body systems and we support Law Enforcement programs that are open and transparent and accountable to the public. And appreciate the committees work to move us all in that direction. Thank you so much. I have so much to say but i will make it as short as possible. They failed to have communication the night of less thans shooting, claiming their communication was down. The same claims they had the protesters on june 1st. The police chief claimed and said later to chief monahan, have done nothing, transparency, accountability, communication with my family. The fact that i hear in testimony, 160 not obtained by a federal police unit breaks my heart. I cant even, i cant even think about that. This is been sitting in my heart for a very long time. Last time we had this hearing, he had brought himself the helmet of the Park Police Officer and put it on the table in the hearings. He brought that helmet as a prop. My son was shot like park police and never did anything that chief moynahan did, seriously. There have been so many things wrong with the way they present themselves, the way they do things but in my heart, when i see that helmet and that is the case he wants to make about the protests i dont know what i have to show. I will not think that low but how disappointing park police is topdown. And i am done, thank you. Thank you to all the witnesses. I want to thank the witnesses for such an insight, i want to give judy special thanks for being here today and your desire to do what we can and make sure this does not happen ever again. It is disappointing but not surprising that the hearing didnt show up, they have forgotten they are answerable to the legislative branch of government. Not showing up, not answering to the people. I can understand why they dont want to be here, must be uncomfortable trying to defend this administrations actions that are so unpopular, so antienvironment, so racist, and deadly and so illegal is maybe that is why the Political Leadership is now seemly squashing this committees oversight efforts like this hearing but this committee has a constitutional responsibility to the department of interior with accountability and transparency and Law Enforcement so no matter how uncomfortable it is to answer questions, the American People deserve answers, Kelly Ghaisar deserves answers. Dejohnette sister deserves answers. It was inspired by him and they deserve answers. Thank you. I think the witnesses for their testimony and members for their questions, members of the community might have additional questions and we will ask you to respond in writing under Committee Rule 30 the members of the, he must submit between 3 decent Business Days following the hearing and it will be held open for your responses. If theres more further business, without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned. Cspan2 has some nonfiction books and authors every weekend. Saturday at 9 15 eastern donald trump junior on his book liberal privilege. At 11 00 the virginia dynasty, former second Lady Lynn Cheney chronicles the leadership of the first 5 president s from virginia, george washington, thomas jefferson, James Madison and james monroe. On sunday at 9 00 pm eastern on after words former cia director john brennan speaks about his life and career in his book undaunted, my fight against americas enemies at home and abroad, interviewed by New York TimesNational Security reporter julian barnes. Watch booktv this weekend on cspan2. Next a look at, the discussion from the international studies, focus on mike pompeo its recent trip to japan, the us alliance with south korea and the next step in Us North Korea relations