Legal experts of civil liberty and education policy advocates testify before a house in Higher Education subcommittee on the impact of the Supreme Court ruling that ended racebased colleges and universities. Witnesses testifying for civil rights under law to represent harvard and university of North Carolina in the Supreme Court case to end affirmative action in College Admissions. This is a little less than two hours. The subcommittee on workforce the moment will come to order. I know a quorum president without objection, he is recognized. Most importantly, their intellectual potential. Their prescribed baseline of expectation. The race is intellectually superior. It was broken until slavery 200 years ago. Until National Leaders americans are always shocked to hear the black community once let our country and categories of success the commitment to marriage and the entrepreneur before the senate. We have a Thriving Community between 5060 were middleclass. Todays history is purposely silent on the communitys commitment to hard work, tenacity, resilience, intelligence and leadership. Transforming to that of a race oppressed and not to be oppressed city. Our country has accepted that black americans are capable of competing against white americans. The racist attack of low expectations. The two principles essential for the american dream. The discrimination or subtle bigotry. The citys pace of the radical left agenda appeared for example , columbia law review ruling disrupting their practices of selecting senior editors based on race versus mary appeared columbia log review has since resumed without unfairly discriminating and hopefully more law schools will follow the example. As our nation celebrates a Supreme Court ruling we must remain digital diligent. The Supreme Court ruling determined to unconstitutional policies. The administrators have expressed their intent to ignore the substance msa. Of Supreme Court ruling. I promise you, this congressional body will not. Chief Justice John Roberts was very clear when he wrote and i quote the assertions of the contrary universities may not simply establish the application essays or other means that we hold unlawful today. We cannot be done directly or indirectly. It builds with substance, not shadows. Racial discriminations. Let me repeat, and i quote, what cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly. Those institutions outthink this community will keep a close eye on the application process as it unfolds. Racism hidden or advert will not be tolerated by this body. The process of other racebased institutions. The constitution rights act called line. We should all be grateful the democracy is steadfast dedicated between everyone equally under the law regardless of race, creed, color or zip code. With that, i yield to Ranking Members. Thank you, chairman. Thank you, witnesses for your testimony today. Fostering racially diverse campuses in the Supreme Court ruling in the harvard cases. It was a Supreme Court in 1978 and the decision that established they could pursue Academic Freedom and one of the many factors for the candidates. It is one of many factors and emissions is vital, it is important we put the conversation an important context. 4200 institutions in the United States, less than 100 selective schools consider race as a factor in only 10 consider race an important factor. Never making up for and a half of the freshman class. Following implementations as is classroom diversity. Narrowly tailored race emissions practices actually leveled the Playing Field and counterbalanced factors that otherwise in place, standardized test and legacy emissions. For example, the District Court in the harvard case illustrated how athletes come out legacy applicants, families who have a history of donating the faculty make up a large percentage of each class. What these applicants make up 5 of applicants every year. They constitute 30 of the applicants admitted each year. 70 of these applicants are white. Research also shows that standardized tests have the discriminant oratory impact. And reduce scores that correlate more with students income, zip code socioeconomic background then the students ability to succeed in college. Let me allow the use and emissions without further examining the effect is in fact unacceptable. So would my colleagues say they want a system based on merit, the problem is the Current System is not based solely on merit. The counter basis, the outcome remains discriminatory. The responsibility to eliminate and achieve diverse learning. Issue guidance to ensure schools and colleges will fill their title vi obligations and address examining discriminatory factors they are not counter balance. It is to achieve equal opportunity to the equity and inclusion enforcement act which is restoring the private right of actions for students to bring cases under title vi. We also have pending the University Act when i reintroduce this congress to provide resources to say to School Districts that want to voluntarily develop plans to integrate the schools. If we are serious, we most focus the system on all. Instituting reforms that we have proposed in the loan act making it more affordable for both current and Prospective College students. Ignoring rates will not be racially unequal. The 1860s and 1954 is true today , the quality requires acknowledgment. I yield back the balance of the time. Eight see all members who wish to serve written statements on the record may do so by submitting them to the Committee Clerk electronically in microsoft word format. Without objections a hearing record will remain open for 40 days allow for statements and other material reference to be submitted for the official hearing records. I now turn to introduce our four witnesses. Thank you again for being here. The first witness is miss allison who is a legal fellow at the Pacific Legal foundation located in virginia. Our next witness is mike who is president of the Asian American coalition for education in orlando florida. Our third witnesses mr. David. Jd who is the director of Educational Opportunities projects and daily committee with civil rights and the law in washington, d. C. And our final witness who is a Research Fellow at the richard and helen Divorce Center for life, religion and family at the Heritage Foundation which is located in washington, d. C. Testifying on his own behalf. We thank liz for being here today. We are thankful for the testimony. I would like each to limit the presentation to a five minute summary of your written statement. Beware of the responsibilities to provide information to the subcommittee. Okay. Chair owens, Ranking Member stop scott. Distinguished members of congress. Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony. A nonprofit Legal Organization that defends americans liberties that by government overreach and abuse. I want to make three main points today. The decisions were important because they uphold the vital principle that individual should be treated as individuals and not on the basis of their race. Followup litigation is necessary to realize the promise of these decisions. The Education Departments guidance is a missed opportunity to inform schools of their important obligations in this area. Under the constitution and title vi, government and recipients of government money may not discriminate upon race. There is a limited university to achieve a compelling interest in student body diversity. It largely took the lead of the opinion and use it very broadly. One case against Harvard University and the second against the university of North Carolina. The court held that these universities had not met their burden. Many universities have for far too long done just the opposite. And in doing so, they have concluded wrongly that an individuals identity is not challenge a vested, skill felt Lessons Learned about the color of their skin. Our constitutional history does not have that. Anticipating schools with these proxy discriminations to evade the prohibitions. How students race them for life. Universities not established two essays lawful in the case. What cannot be done indirectly cannot be done directly. From president s and universities and even statements of state governments in their state that they can safely ignore the decision. If these invasions go unchecked students with very emissions guarantee equal treatment will remain hollow. Proxy discrimination at the k12 level. Many attorneys represent the coalition for teaching, a group of parents challenging their proxy discrimination Mission Scheme at topsides schools Thomas Jefferson high school in Fairfax County virginia. In the summer of 2020, Fairfax County restructured its emissions process to an effect lower numbers of Asian American students that could attend teaching. The Text Messages and emails produced in discovery make it clear that it was structured because of, not in spite of the effects of the numbers of Asian American students there. Yes, Fairfax County was a proxy crime, not a direct crime. It is certainly no less harmful to kids so they could not go to their dream high school because of their race. Right now that cases pending before the Supreme Court. My colleagues also if the other cases pending involving property discriminations that i schools in boston, new york city, Montgomery County maryland that all follow the same general pattern. While litigation by nonprofit groups is an important way to enforce the core comments of students for fair emissions, it is not the only way. The department of education has an Important Role to play in making sure that the civil rights laws are followed. Unfortunately, the frequently asked questions document at the office of civil rights issued following the air right decision indicate that they will not do that. It basically ignores a large and looming problems and essentially tells universities that whatever they want to do as long as they are not to open about it. That is not the law and it needs to be held to account to realize the core american promise that individual should be treated as individuals and not on the basis of their race. Thank you. Thank you appeared. And. [inaudible] extreme poverty in 1992 i came to america as a foreign student in this land of opportunity. Becoming the global planning. In appendix a of my testimony high standards. The racial quotas to discriminate against american ethics. Race discrimination and the stress in psychology harm to our children. Many asian african applicants hide their identity when applying to colleges. The Asian Community to support students for its lawsuit against harvard and the unc. The Partner Organizations filing a single complaint. The lawsuit and the amicus brief in support. They grow into over 300 organizations nationwide. The Supreme Court right fully struck them. They say this for Asian Americans as all children should no longer be treated as secondclass citizens. All americans with the mayor trust also in advance america towards the counter plan society as Martin Luther king dreamed of 60 years ago. Equity and inclusion have not given up. They have issued guidance that advocates as a program. This guidance is important. College enrollment is a failure of the k12 education preparing black and hispanic children for colleges. Improving the constitutional ways in Higher Education. Further all k12 education is behind other indoctrinations that they are responsible further of the legal operation standard. A plaintiff speed where they urge stopping the race race proxies in College Admissions. By hiding students name disclose the rate make students inaccessible to what is evaluated. The criteria on the needs of the program for the equity. Restore standardized testing. The factor is 81 have made standardized testing possible. The Entrance Exam in order to receive equity. Chinese at the revolutionary race or managing enterprise. As a result it stopped. The economy collapsed. America cannot afford to repeat this mistake in the name of Racial Equity. When our nation is faced with unprecedented complications from international rivals. It is imperative to risk the meritocracy in our institution in order to maintain america. The Supreme Court landmark ruling provides opportunity for american colleges to correct their mistakes by promoting equality in the mayor trust city and calling upon to support our policy recommendations to do just that. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning, chairman. Ranking member scott. Members of the house. Good morning chairman owens, Ranking Member scott and members of the house committee. I am the director of the Educational Committee project with the lawyers for civil rights under law. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the Supreme Courts decision. The Lawyers Committee has been a leader in the fight for Racial Equity access to justice in Higher Education for many years. We award good coalitions nationally and into western states to ensure that all students made access to be supported graduate and into the workforce fully prepared for our society. We have also had the distinct privilege and honor of representing an incredible Multiracial Group of students and organizations in the harvard unc and austin cases including black latino and Asian American students. Together with pro bono law firms advancing justice aid in the North CarolinaJustice Center we represented the only state to testify in the unc and harvard cases about the tremendous academic and social benefits of diverse student bodies. When i argued the unc case in the Supreme Court last october, i carried with me there powerful story of resilience, unity and determination. These included luisa a child of mexican immigrant parents who wanted to become a doctor after visiting his grandmother as a young child in mexico and seeing her within abscess in her knee because she lacked access to adequate healthcare. He had to fight his way into ap classes at Israel High School in North Carolina because a counselor did not think he could compete. He had strong grades, but did not have the highest test scores because he did not even know that he could study for the sat. He persevered and today he is in his fourth year of medical school. Sally chen, a child of chinese immigrant parents who grew up in San Francisco in a one bedroom apartment with their family and siblings. Sally often translated for her parents and schools and doctors offices. She thought about whether in her application she should discuss her family story and decided that she would be true to herself and share those experiences that inspired her. She was admitted to harvard as a firstgeneration student graduated and now helps lead work with the chinese for affirmative action. And Andrew Brennan a secondgeneration black College Student who grew up in kentucky and wrote his College Application that he did not always fit into the black stereotypes because he identified as yay and did not just listen to rap music. Students among less than 125 andrew graduated and continued as a strong advocate for voice and is enrolled in columbia law school. Just a fraction of the stories of many of our students whose range of academic and social achievement attributes experiences and talent including those impacted by race will fully fit under the mission plans and still should be fully vetted today. These students earn their seats. They are now succeeding in life. Our country needs more Success Stories like these. We cannot allow others to use the Supreme Courts torture history of the equal protection clause in the promise to take those seats away from other well deserving students. Because lets be real. That is what many supporters of the decision want to deal and not just in education, but all facets of life. We are builtin unearned privileges for the few determine who has opportunity and who does not. That may be somebodys dream, but that is not the american dream. Universities can do their part by instituting constitutional reforms including race programs, recruitment and outreach and Student Support as well as deconstructing systemic barriers we need congress to do its part in helping to bring unity, opportunity and justice for all. We have these recommendations in our written testimony and i will just highlight a couple. Providing Grant Funding to implement their meaningful alternatives that have advanced their access and opportunity. Increasing eligibility and funding for social and Academic Councils being k12 and investigating systemic barriers for Higher Education such as legacy admission and the consideration of bias sat and act exams. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Last but not least. Good morning. I am a Research Fellow life religion and family at the Heritage Foundation. I would like to think chairman owens, Ranking Member scott to subcommittee gave me the opportunity to testify this morning. The views that i expressed are my own. Should not be construed of representing any position of the Heritage Foundation. The prediction of gloom and doom in a World Without racial preferences resignation as some people only because affirmative action has been debated for over 40 years but it is still largely misunderstood. For starters, racial preferences were most common at highly selected universities like harvard and stanford that admit less than 10 of their applicants. They were less common in schools like virginia tech. During 2018 issue the dean of admissions acknowledged a school use different standards based on race to determine which Prospective Students received recruitment letters. The university ranked applicants using an academic index comprising sat scores and grades these scores were broken into deciles with the first lowest in the 10th highest. Harvards own student data proved that this schools twotiered recruitment efforts were reflective in its admissions decisions. For instance, a black student in the fourth and a hispanic in the six had a higher chance of being admitted then an asian student in the tent decile. In the words of justins john holland our constitution is colorblind and does not tolerate classes among citizens. In respect of civil rights all citizens are equal before the law. The Supreme Court struck down the use of racial preferences in College Admissions because they subjected asian and white students to Higher Standards than black and hispanic counterparts. One of the claims held by many aggressive commentators that eliminating these policies will return america to a precivil rights era of segregation and discrimination. It is simply not true. The highest performing black applicants at harvard have close to 60 chance of being admitted. For legacy black students that number rose to 99. 9 . Simply no selected university is turning away black students at the top grades and test scores. 75 of black, 55 of hispanic applicants in the bottom three deciles. Compared to 60 of their Asian American and 24 of their white peers. The solution is her performance at the k12 level. Not racial preferences at the collegial level. It did not lead to a quality. Equality cannot be forced through mandates or quotas. It cannot be declared through executive order. Any other policy that apply different standards based on race in order to achieve demographic representation only reinforced inequality because it is impossible to lower expectations and raise performance at the same time. If we want to cultivate a truly Diverse College campus that passes constitutional muster we must pursue several longterm strategies at the k12 level. First, promote and advance Education Choice specifically through options like education savings accounts which have been implemented in arizona, arkansas , florida, iowa, North Carolina, utah and West Virginia local policymakers should create pathways for gifted students to receive progressively challenging work and Education Programs outside of the classroom. We need to focus on one of the most important drivers of educational outcomes. Family structure. Children raised in homes with their biological parents have better academic and behavioral outcomes in children raised in any other family arrangement. Today, 40 of American Children are born to unmarried parents and more live in on married homes. The highest rate in the world. Improving education outcomes on a k12 or post secondary level must include changes in policy, culture that encourage marriage and strengthen families. This is why some schools are looking for ways to incorporate the success sequence into the classroom. Students need to know the people that finish high school secure stable employment and married before having children have a singledigit poverty rate by their mid 30s. They take away for politicians policymakers and pundits should be clear. A students family, home environment, study habits and School Quality play a much larger role in determining their academic outcomes and their skin color. Public policy should reflect these facts, not be used to socially engineer outcomes in ways that violate basic constitutional principles. Thank you very much for your time and attention. Thank you. On Committee Rule nine, we will now question. I will begin the process. There has been many discussions of what diversity should mean. To me focus on identity diversity and speaking about a need for a wider net diversity. What is wider net diversity and why should there be a standard adopted to the college campuses. Put simply, when i talk about that, i am talking about extending to groups or individuals who may not have access to opportunities at a particular time. A perfect example of that from history and where we could talk about real Racial Discrimination , obviously could not serve as aviators because of Racial Discrimination in armed forces. When those opportunities came, they demanded that they had to meet the same standards as their counterparts. In fact, obviously they have a Stellar Service record and won the u. S. United States Air ForceFirst Top Gun competition in the late 40s. Now why did that diversity have a contrast which seeks to prioritize superficial identity categories in order to create a demographically represented population. So, i am always for that and i think the lower bar does anyone agree to this service. Thank you. After the Supreme Court decision against racebased emissions, some College Universities seem dedicated to continue their race preferences. If universities are called by another name, why should they consider these policies illegal . Thank you. The name does not matter. What matters are the purpose of the law on the purpose of the justice whether they are not discriminating on the basis admissions. It is illegal and they should be held to account. Interesting. Racebased preferences. A draft recommendation of a plan to enact race balancing by hiring staff to reflect the democratic diversity of the student population through diversity plus hiring initiatives. This is one example of the profession are weeded out now by their expertise but because they dont fit the racial makeup. Due to this decision do you think racebased and faculty hiring also would be considered legal or not legal . The decision does not directly address this, but at Public Schools under the constitution and under title vi which prohibits race preferences by recipients of government money and title vii which generally prohibits race preferences in hiring, yes. They are generally legal. The decision does not directly speak to it, the decision does change the climate and make it that the Current Court will not sit by and tolerate discrimination based on race. Thank you appeared many believe the Racial DiscriminationCollege Admissions is a thing of the past. You hear from students every day despite their qualifications. Providing student harm for Racial Discrimination in College Admissions. It is from doing an outstanding job. A talent and programming. Everybody says Computer Sciences the future for our 21st century. Higher directly from high school by google. Sixteen of americas top schools like mit and outstanding academic performance. Also a start up in one major global pro se opening programming. Sharing the work because we have this country. But it is appalling for the colleges to ignore this kind of parent. We already filed a civil rights complaint two days ago. I hope that they will support the equal treatment conflicts. Thank you appeared i would like to now recognize thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to understand more about your definition of their atrocity. I am speaking in the context of liberal arts and the graduate programs. You seem to want to return to a heavy reliance on standardized testing for admissions decisions as a fair and reasonable approach. Am i correct . No. Actually, supporting holistic evaluation spirit primarily like standardized testing and leadership and other things. Thank you for your response. How much would you weigh standardized testing in the process . For Stem Education i want to confine our conversation to liberal arts into its institutions such as harvard. That is an important part of our educational system. How much would you say harvard would be allowed to weigh standardized testing. A major criteria. Without the more than 50 , less than 50 . I dont have a number for that. We know that grades can sometimes be subjective depending, is it fair to say you would waive testing more than 50 . No. For Stem Education, it should be very. We are talking about a liberal arts undergraduate question. What is fair in that case . Sure. More than 50 . More than 50 . So, that would mean that students that scored the highest should be given greater preference than people that scored in the top decile. You would say that is a fair system. I support a holistic evaluation. Could you answer. Your definition means more than 50 . Could it be less than 50 , i believe it could be less than 50 for liberal arts. Okay. What other objective criteria are there . Would you say grades are objective . Grades, yeah. It is not consistent across the board. That is right. How would you measure leadership ability . Taking leadership results in different class. But it also depends. I think that it is management that is important. Would you say difficult to measure leadership objectively through some measure . Is there an objective leadership . I would like to conclude, sir , you say several times, actually, you criticized the fact that you say over 1000 universities dropped the requirement for students to take an objective standardized test and you say, you give that reasoning, you attribute that to the fact that the covid19 pandemic and George Floyds tragic death. Do you think that George Floyds death because he universities to drop . No. I am quoting you. Well, my recollection is that the universities could not rely on that because the test about to be administered because of the proctoring and large numbers of students taking this test was a danger to the public health. You want to attribute it to George Floyds death. That is kind of a curious thing. Taking advantage of that. It is curious that you would say that george floyd, his death was a reason why. No, i did not say that. It is in your testimony, sir. I want to point that out to you. It is in your testimony. Well, you know, more questions that i would like to ask but i do not think that you are being completely genuine in your answer about how much you would rely on an objective measure such as standardized testing and admissions. I yield back. May depends on Education Programs. A decent wage. Waste on the Educational Program the gentlemans time has expired. You are recognized for five minutes. First of all, i would like to thank all of you for being here today. I want to explore a little bit what is behind this drive for socalled diverse city for this tremendous obsession with where ones ancestors come from. As i understand it and we can ask, really, either one of you here, as i understand it, the drive for diversity is in a northern suburb here. I could fill out a form and say i am socalled hispanic. Correct. And for the purpose, diversity purposes i would be labeled hispanic. Correct . Who did you ask . Im sorry. We are here talking about diversity and that diversity is defined ethnically. Okay. Bye somebodys ancestors came from. Correct . Okay. Which means for example if i apply to college and i have a grandmother who is from south america, i could check on the form that im hispanic. Correct . I think people are saying to whom are you suggesting your question . To missus there appeared right . What they are looking for here is diversity. I may not know a word of spanish but i am filling out the form that i am hispanic. How would the fact that i had a peruvian grandmother gave me a different viewpoint that would enrich that institution. I think youve got your finger on something very important which universities have intended to emphasize over true diversity of thought. That is what i do not understand. If either peruvian grandmother who died before i was born, it is built on the idea that therefore i will bring a different viewpoint or something to the university. I agree that it is very concerning that many universities seem to have relied on crude stereotypes rather than looking at true individuality and that it is an individuals experience and what they cast as diversity. University should care about individuals in individuality rather than reducing students to the ethnic or racial identities. I am glad that it ruled the way it did. So that it can get back to treating individuals. Elizabeth warren when she wanted to become a professor at harvard. She claimed that she was apparently partly native american. On the idea that she would bring a different viewpoint to the faculty lounge. Could you even imagine why she would give preferences for that job based on presumably a different viewpoint in the world or something that she would know that other students would not know . So, i am not familiar with the details and how she used her identity, however, i agree that it is concerning that they tend to reduce individuals to stereotypes rather than looking at the full range of what they bring to the table as individuals. Does anybody that you know in their own life when they have to make decisions a doctor, dentist , accountant, anybody take into account peoples ethnic background or even ask what their ethnic background is . I agree that that would be unusual in that that for many individuals, individuals have value confidence and their role as doctor or dentist dentist rather than racial stereotype. This idea that somebody view of the world is based on where their ancestors came from, could you comment on that . Sure. I mean, it is unfortunate that we have taken that perspective. This is one of the reasons why you believe, quite frankly, many black conservatives are easy targets in the media because the moment that they say things that the left dont agree with they are attacked. Is that part of that . Designed to force people to certain ancestry to be promoted on their ideology . I can think of an example that i have heard of in my own life. Just employment where somebody was, a person of color, lets say, they were therefore educated that they should have a certain viewpoint because they are of that ancestry. As part of the motivation . Very quick answer. I will say this in general. I do not defined diversity is having people with different skin colors at all think the same. The idea that secondary institutions want to promote diversity, i think that it is fine. Diversity of region. Diversity of thought. Not just the composition in the classroom. Thank you. I would like to recognize next. Thank you, mr. Chair. A critical tool for diversifying classrooms for reducing racial bias and addressing Racial Disparities for students of color. Rightwing activists waged a decadelong challenge to the use of race and unfortunately they succeeded when the Supreme Court struck down this tool for achieving diverse classrooms by ending race conscious admissions policies. My home state of washington has had its own affirmativeaction band, unfortunately, since 1998 restricting public colleges in considering grace as an admissions factor. Despite the ban, washington public College Students are of color and just as diverse as her private college counterparts. One way that our washington public colleges did this is through their guaranteed admissions policy. These policies promised seats to eligible students from local high schools if they meet grade or other academic requirements. It is not unique to my stay. Colleges throughout the country have adopted similar policies without standardized testing requirements. There may not be a policy that can help achieve racial diversity at the same level that race conscious admissions have, but why are policies that eliminate reliance on testing helpful in diversifying student bodies . Thank you, congresswoman. First, you have to know little bit about standardized testing. They are incredibly bias instruments. They were started way back based on science which was dismissed by the scientific community. Poor predictors of College Success in college readiness. There is no real prediction of that. They are basically or essentially your test scores predicted based on your zip code in the quality of education you have received or your socioeconomic status, i should say. Rather than any other quality that an applicant would cover. I think that it is imperative that universities, especially in light of the band which has always been followed with substantial drops that they consider race neutral alternatives as those in Washington State because those are trying to take students from where they are coming from, you know, the high schools, lots of inequality still in k12 education across all states and i think that it is imperative that they look to solutions that they allow students to still show up with their talents and experiences and the like and not just reduce them to a single test score as though that tells something about their talents. Very important. Students graduate debt free. They have a guaranteed admissions policy. They can attend tuition free with our Washington College grant. Supporting students in that way it should be nonpartisan. It should be bipartisan. The same right wing organizations between have also waged guaranteed admissions. They claim it could be a form, get this, of racebased discrimination. Are you aware of any of these policies considering grace as an admission factor . Absolutely not. Whether or not there is intentions to further diversify across socioeconomic status across first generations across language, et cetera, lots of qualities that even Rural Communities as well. I am most familiar with texas top 10 plan because i was there for many years i worked on that policy and litigation around the texas top 10 . And that has helped improve. Sometimes it does not work as well and this is how and why universities need their resources to be able to explore exactly how these alternatives may impacted, but these absolutely have nothing to do with Racial Discrimination and they are not treating any individual differently based on their race. Witness is next to you have been arguing for not reducing people down to one factor. It seems like standardized testing should not be a factor that people get reduced down to. Alternative admission policies do not sound like a quota like some on the right alleged. In fact guaranteed admission seemed to be the same type of race neutral policies that these activists claim to one in a postsecondary education. Today a witness argued that black students are harmed by policies that promise to uplift them but instead was old and mismatching them into academically challenging programs. Selective colleges reflect on their role in ensuring racial representation, should they be concerned about creating pipelines for underrepresented, underrepresented students and their competitive programs . Absolutely they should. Thinking of our university of engineering economic for all they need to be open to those students. The whole mismatch theory has already been debunked by real science. It has been dismissed repeatedly by peerreviewed studies. Really should not be echoed in any chamber. I healed back. Thank you so much. I would like to recognize next. Thank you. The Supreme Court decided when they held that harvard College Admissions did not comply with the principles of the equal protection clause embodied in the civil rights act. Now, previously, they assumed that race would only be treated as a plus in the admissions process but we sought harvard that in some cases this was treated as a minus. Is this correct . Yes. Can you expound upon that . Absolutely. Only a limited number of available it is inevitable that a plus factor for some students will be a minus factor for others. Particularly as a Harvard College graduate i am concerned that in 2013 harvard zone office of Institutional Research concluded that the University System was indeed bias with negative effects in the admissions process. Is it a fact that they buried this report . Yes. I have concerns in the wake of the Supreme Courts decision in one of the mailings that was sent out to alumni. The headline was harvard united in resolving face of the Supreme Courts admissions ruling. Do you have concerns about the compliance of the Supreme Court decision at some universities . Well, i am not familiar with that particular one. Ive seen similar statements on the heads of other University Officials in an amicus brief filed in the coalition for this petition. The Cato Institute documented many such examples of invasion so i am very concerned about lack of compliance, yes. How would you identify potential lack of compliance . Statements from University Officials would be concerning the changes in policy that do not seem to make sense in light of academic policy qualifications but instead are targeted at engineering racial competition i would be concerned about. I wanted to turn to you. In your testimony you mentioned it is universities themselves that benefit not the students from racebased discrimination. How does harvard and how do other schools maintain internal incentives to keep discriminatory policies in place well, what i meant by that is often times universities will particularly focus for instance on the incoming class. The freshman class and talk about how diverse it is. Because they want to receive the social benefits that come with being able to say, you know, look at the black and brown that we have. There is a lot less emphasis on the graduating class. So this happens often times when individuals will say that they are choosing a candidate for particular position based on race and sex. It settles that person with the burden of feeling as if they are not being judged by the qualifications and allows the person doing the choosing to say how virtuous they are because of how progressive they are. Mr. Squyres, how will the end of discriminatory racebased admissions help the next generation of College Applicants . I think one of the things that it would do is allow everyone on campus ideally to be able to understand we are all here because we are based on the same set of qualifications. I can guarantee you that in 2043 the highest performing students on the sats in terms of grades where black and hispanic. No one on the other side of the aisle would say that too many of them are going to harvard and yale. So, if we believe in equality it has to be equal across the board which means that everyone has to be judged by the same set of standards. If we want to consider socioeconomic status it has to be the same across the board. What we cannot do is say, for one group of students you can come in at this particular bar in for another group of students have to come in at a much higher bar. Thank you. I healed back. Thank you. I would like to recognize next. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to note that one of the witnesses contended that although qualified black applicants have earned their place, they are a small number of the total black applicants that are admitted. I would like to enter into the record an article by ford titled black harvard and princeton students graduate at higher rates in their classmates overall and equally at yale. The article highlights department of Education Data that shows 99 of the Graduation Rates are black students at harvard compared to 98 of all students. 99 Graduation Rates at princeton compared to 97 a bachelor degree seekers overall and 98 of el students graduate within six years exactly the same for black yale students. I like to enter that into the record mr. Chair. Thank you. Our nations colleges and universities play a key role preparing people for the jobs today and the jobs of the future an important part of the holy highly qualified workforce for the technological leadership and advancing the National Security interests. We benefit from a multiracial multicultural student population that brings a wide range of perspectives and life experiences. Including the universities and chief Justice Roberts noted this spirit in his opinion and students admissions saying that racebased admissions programs military academies could further compel interest at such academies. Do you agree that there is a range of factors to consider in advancing the United StatesNational Security interest in the Global Economic and technological leadership including preparing a workforce that reflects our nations racial and ethnic diversity. That is a gas or no question. I think the number one should promote the diversity from that. To create diverse and thrive in the global market. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Written testimony you mentioned unfair admissions and im glad we share that concern for you mentioned there driven by Racial Equity ideologies. Are you aware they are personal . Seven and ten at harvard, is that yes or no . I want to follow up, you discussed meritocracy several times, restoring meritocracy and do not destroy meritocracy. Would you say thats based on test scores and grades . The dictionary definition means ability and talent rather than social position so many people have tremendous ability and talent and potential and might not have high test scores or grades so counter to what you are saying are somehow exclusive, they claim that black and brown students are academically talented enough for you think they are mismatched, that view ignores experiences and perspectives. I was saying test scores should be one of the key criteria. I am reclaiming my time, i just want to note for the record china, south korea and singapore, they are low on entrepreneurial skills but they have lower test scores, higher confidence and entrepreneurial skills. Based on your understanding, would targeted outreach and policies and other policies outlined education and justice for my colleagues . Are they prohibited . For they follow the opinion . I think you and appreciate that. I yield back. Thank you so much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for reading this hearing today. Before too long, admissions have pitted students against students based on race. This is a stain on postsecondary system. Today be a day of a Brighter Future for students. Im encouraged by universities who are committed to change and has chosen to look forward. On the day of the decision kevin shared with the community we will follow the Supreme Court respect, grace will not be a factor in these decisions of the university and didnt stop with just words. Educating undergraduate positions and officers on legal standards, the university reviewed her graduate degree programs and universities and Technology Changes so no one who makes admissions has access to applicants Demographic Data during the season its my hope college and universities take the same apps. We know its important to provide more than just access to college. Usually focus on student complete college. He mentioned in your testimony selected schools use racebased using racebased preferences on the risk of dispatch between student and university. How important it is it for students prepared to meet these requirements and what might a mismatch result in. Thank you for that question. It is incredibly important and if you are an engineering student who comes into a school and 650 on an sat but your peers court 750 in your class taught at 750, you are going to fall behind and what research has shown that they are more likely to major disciplines and selected schools but also likely to switch out of that major so mismatch is an issue but i think part of the problem is weve adopted in this Country College or best, ivy league for bust attitude that makes people believe if you do not attend college for an ivy league institution, to some extent you are wasting your life, thats the wrong way to talk about education but regardless of what school we talk about what the discussion, the standards should be consistent across the board not based on a persons skin color or ethnic background. Thank you for that. Do you have anything to add . I thought gave a nice concept on how it applies in the engineering era. There mismatch is in law and the ability to pass the bar exam and further work showing it affects minority students ability for graduate degrees and go on to careers in academia and out at this nothing unique about racial context when colleagues were studying mismatch they found students gave legacy preferences to drift away from science and engineering because of average academic credentials and fears it isnt about race, its differences in preparation in a particular regular. Thank you very much, i find that useful. You talk about the american dream, he worked tirelessly to represent equal education rights, why is this important today even after the Supreme Courts decision against racebased admissions . The u. S. Apartment education peace and guidance and encourages in California Democrats have the agency and try to reintroduce in high school they have an assault on meritocracy and basically diversity they have not given up so we have to continue on with that. Thank you all for the testimony. You stated in your written testimony black africans close to 50 chance and that number has rose to 99 so when you talk about this, are you referring to test scores and grade scores . I was in reference to harvard, i was talking about ninth, the use test scores, correct . I want to know that because a student is high performing, it is mean they dont deserve access and that is what is provided so to me the affirmative action has been overlooked and the witnesses here interpreted opinions to be even broader eliminating any continuation at all. You gave us your legal take but as an advocate who represents intervenors, what does this mean for students and civilians . Racial equity Still Matters in america. The hear about testimony, individuals being treated individually but 300 plus years, individuals were treated individually and those people were black and found students among others for far too long and they should have opportunity and just because you cant consider race, what remember the decision says harvard, it doesnt mean you cannot pursue diversity including racial diversity. They were concerned with was the student getting an automatic bump just because of their race and that was not happening in many places, not even harvard, thats what they suggest, racebased considerations but for students it means older experiences evaluated and expressed to have that fully considered. Okay, i agree. You stated the funding levels for black colleges and universities and Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders they may see a dramatic increase and students no longer able they restrict this so can you talk more about the impact on these institutions and the ways in which they can prepare the universities . Typically what follows, oklahoma and michigan, california and texas in 1997, have a large group of underrepresented students and some of them are no longer applying to universities so they are under matching themselves and others want to feel more welcome. They may not feel as welcome as certain universities so its imperative that hbcus and other institutions we named will experience a large influence of applications who want to go, they are incredible institutions and show a lot of promise they will increase applications because students are applying to other colleges but instead apply to these. How can Admissions Officers apply . Holding what . Title vi. Policies can widen. Written testimony and Education Department of justice in the door is not completely sure equal opportunity. Thank you to our witnesses. A review of the 65 University Power to five athletic conferences out of the institution has 45 Staff Members on his payroll. Fortyfive and the Institution Just four times the typical number supporting students with special needs and colleges are offering di programs of study. Given this growing number of pei offices, how might that impact other aspects . I want to tell you, in china, colleges and institutions and committees so i think the institution going back is to educate and make sure and approve the best education. Focus on education, academic excellence, is there any return on investment for spending on pei raising tuition costs for the university . I see more negative impact and china. Mr. Squires, i know this has been talked about but can you characterize the difference, equity and equal opportunity, what is the goal . Is suggesting people from all types of backgrounds and the actual submission impartial application so you are talking about different backgrounds against different standards so the city may say we want to see sat scores improve so i schools and opportunity, equity is when you turn around and you put into context and say we see everyone is not coming in the same and they are and focus on equity perpetuating our and lack of opportunity i believe is always so and a lot of people like to talk about race but heres how the interaction of politics were today. This will rail against School Choice. Often times it is supported by Teachers Union and they send their own children to private school. When it is time to apply to harvard, they turn around and Cite Education disparities in the city to justify why the children needed so to meet anyone who wants to talk about race and education, they are not for education joyce, i think its a big problem and ill make a policy suggestion, i think regardless of the jurisdiction to stand up against School Choice the Lowest Performing School in the industry because of school is not good enough for your child, it shouldnt be good enough for my. Will set and i encourage everyone support my choice act that allows federal dollars to go to the Educational Opportunity of their choice, Parents Choice and obviously those below the income. Last question and thank you for being with us today, virginia the state where i am from is equitable grading, if you could talk about that and the harm being done from the. Equitable grading and Racial Disparities and moving penalties so, i am out of time as well. Thank you, mr. Chairman. One of the traditional sense is the principle of Legal Certainty which the law must be as far as possible in clear and and people like on organizing their lives in enterprises for clear signals for these bodies will will and will i think is an important positive principle. Your testimony will notice will think the admissions process will is there is to suggest under the law conduct admissions and how it affected applicants and discrimination or so and Higher Education as well as secondary schools, institutions in connecticut and the principle of Legal Certainty was recommended by his court and setting aside portable arguments here, the fact is if you are in Admissions Office right now but youre out, this decision how to make choices in terms of application, its almost chaos in terms of how to decipher. They are talking about bringing Legal Counsel for what the court left them with in terms of this so i know the dod is talking about that but the fact is, this court has left a mess as a result of this decision regardless how people feel about affirmative action. That ms. Started with unjust interpretation of production loss and it would somehow exclude black and brown and it said. I carry a copy i got from University School of law when i went there in 1990s and whats most troubling, the recent opinion is you have chief Justice Roberts and was trying to dictate educational policy and he should limit his opinion to issues before but he didnt and he started to try to write new policy but its been made even worse suggesting the process has to be raised. If chief Justice Roberts says you can consider notion of resilience and overcoming discrimination, how can you talk about Racial Discrimination, overcoming Racial Discrimination and somehow have to divorce race . It doesnt make sense but when you talk to lawyers, they will tell you thats what the opinion means and why we have chaos created in order rooms. Again, it seems to be a trademark. If you look at the dobbs decision, its the same situation happening in hospitals and when asked across the country where ob gyns are feeling the need to have Legal Counsel to advise them because they have all of these criminalized ability as well as potential liability in terms of stepping out signs lines that are not clear. Moving forward, its clear in my Opinion Congress needs to act on clarity though our legal system to achieve a goal is recognized as essential. We need to make sure students understand their experience should be representative at universities and they shouldnt shy away from that. They might have students First Amendment and 14th amendment right and their stories. Thank you. Id like to recognize. A bit of response to the criticism chief Justice Roberts. When you look at the most recent opinion you said a judiciary picks winners and losers based on the skin, or be the consequence of the judicial system to acquire laws based on race . I agree that would be concerning, individuals should before the law and judiciary that doesnt do that would be very concerning. Last week the students admissions against west Point Military and the department of budget and military academy use as a preference and west point publishers racial goals for every class adjusted yearly to reflect the population. There was a discussion concerning whether this was compelling interest that would have scrutiny. Given the decision, how might courts in the military academy . It makes it clear scrutiny applies everywhere including the military academy and any use of race as compelling race in the compelling interest the institution cant use race anymore unnecessary. What that might look like might look a little different than civilian context, not the left given the toughness of the standard prayer admissions. I am skeptical it will be that heavy burden. I have a few questions if you dont mind. The article titled created equal, roadmap for free of discrimination, any racial preference will provide opportunity for policy makers focus on often neglected thinkers that contribute. My question generally, for those factors you are referring to when you wrote that . I believe it report after the decision was around Family Structure and the research is conclusive children raised by two homes better on a host of educational and social outcomes penny better than any other but for some reason its not seen as a priority oftentimes and i think its something we need to focus on more and we cant fix this in one particular generation but that is part of the reason, so that children before they start a family understand they have an agency, the chance of being single digit. I wanted to write that from your testimony because it is astonishing looking at that and those factors are more prominent than anything else and do better than we did and looking back on my upbringing, and a guided me through that time to understand and would help me get it by instilling good values. Would you agree that is a good formula for success in this world . Absolutely. The first time your child is read to in kindergarten, regardless of what skin color the child is, it relates to education and i think of my own father was a chief Education Officer in our home who stayed consistently but refused to allow me for a b so students need quality schools and teachers and administrators but also the types of home environment that cultivates a lifelong love of learning. I love what you said and i yield back. I get them to show me the books they checked out at the library and what they need to accomplish, it is very important. I like to recognize thank you so very much mr. Chairman and Ranking Member and our witnesses. In mexico we pride ourselves in diversity, a foundation of our unique culture and look at across the country what could they diverse nation looks like, it looks like new mexico and we are proud of that but colleges and universities, we have 30 minority institutions including four tribal colleges but im here to say it wasnt always that way. Latino and native American Communities had to fight for their rightful place in Higher Education systems not just how much love you have at home, its how much education you can get to go on and accomplish things. This is a story i say often because people dont think about it but under the g. I. Bill my father and others could go to our local university but far advanced so we can see there has been active racism and discrimination but what happened . It became the countrys First University with a latino president. The diversities, our founding father recognizes the importance of diversity and we have seen study after study economics, education, democrats, democratic benefits when you have diversity in different ways, the Supreme Court and prepare admissions versus harvard and i want to thank you for the amazing work you did to bring those benefits to life but there are those who dont agree with better educational institutions. What we can do to make sure there is no diversity in our colleges . I would you mexico city university. Other action as we like to say. It wasnt automatic admissions, theres extremely talented didnt committed to affirmative action program. Now we dont have that as an option, we still have it available for other reasons but theres still other opportunity. Analyzing a neutral program such as percentage programs and she earlier in Washington State so students attending schools should be able to end and should be representative of the state we are talking about a true democracy. They are pivotal to provide support in a climate that does help broader perspectives. Many Things Congress can do, we have options in written testimony how congress can help move the bar to ensure Racial Equity is not written out of policy in our universities institution. In your written testimony, he pointed out the importance pell grants because they will have students from diverse socioeconomic and racial backgrounds and House Republicans proposed earlier this year to reduce funding by 22 , imagine that. 80000 pell grant opportunities. Im going to have to ask you to elaborate on that because i have run out of time but it is opportunity cost our country. Thank you and i yield back. Thank you. You mentioned its not the only measure of diversity. Lets say everybody would agree with that, you look at all kinds of diversity but does college have a right to have a truly diverse . They are going to learn from each other prepared. As a college have a right to have a diverse student body . A right to determine admission standards. Again, im not opposed, i am in favor and part of that may be ethnic but a big part is concerned. Diversity of the student body and Students Learning from each other and you wont learn much from social economic. A Selective College has 100 students equally broken up into black and asian and they all went to one academy, not sure how much diversity you will see. And what i am saying is people who looked the same. You can decline diversity but i think youre trying to say we should have a diverse. He mentioned military should be diversified. Can you show why they need to be diversified . What i said was the impelling interest may look different in this context and it applies to anyone involving the literary economy and not certain military economy could approve those. That would need to be in the course of medication. I agree whether its compelling different than instability but legal standards have to be. Affected proof and admissions test is discriminatory, should it be allowed . They can improve that it violates title vi. The Legacy Program with a state like virginia and a policy that prevented most africanamericans from my institutions and virginia tech. It has to be discriminatory to be prohibited. It is discriminatory and the treatment. We know they are mandatory and the legacy is discriminatory and admissions can be extreme in a tory. Without a setting and discriminatory impact. I jaded view and suggesting is is anchored in this oppressive barrier and standardized test scores tell you nothing else and they are used as barriers to prevent certain people including black and brown communities from attending certain universities. Sorry, time is of. You indicated the Supreme Court did allow to a certain extent, can you elaborate . No but affirmative action fell completely, these programs and the way the Supreme Court suggests and not continuing the way they were doing but interNational Security, there might be other interests to support the Way University measures are compelled and in time limit but if a university was emphasized in the university makes sure all doctors were leaving certain parts and again. And a diverse and learn the experience for liberal arts degree and you come out as a different person and you have a homogeneous student body, not nearly as much as you have a diverse and the solutions and School Choice and they deserve it and it can divert money from overwhelming majority and all students not just a frivolous few. And most of that is discriminatory. And you say its intentional but its not fair to have discriminatory legacy admissions when African Americans could not because of Public Policy go and therefore they have graduated. They can make huge donations and disparity and affirmative action. That is clear discrimination and we have to do something about it. I dont know what we will do some standards and they came up with this idea but you cant end up with a discriminatory impact and the fact that it wasnt intentional and therefore not actionable because we dont have the right of action so all to think our witnesses who pointed out the discriminatory impact and the challenges we have. Thank you again for this topic. Let me set the record straight for those not aware. Failure is not in the dna of black america. Black americans can see as well as well as other americans and thinking black america is because of slavery 200 years ago and going back, my born was dad was born in 1928. My dad in the 1950s in the state went on and the generation was taught you go out and work hard. You man up. Today is the same story. The issue where black america, 75 in california connected the activity. A couple of days ago baltimore. Affirmative action, it has been prepared. No one would ever talk about in the best talent on the field so it doesnt matter how tall, is the best of care to win the game and we do the same intellectually and not allow this country to go down that path because our color. It is very insulting. I want to thank you for this conversation and i want to thank my colleagues and for america to have this process thinking through and the other side it has been a testament for too many people. How can we have a level Playing Field out of the School System and feel good and when they did to that position never feel they have to apologize because they were given that because of their color im excited we are going to. Without objection and no further business, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [silence] [silence] [silence] [silence] [silence] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [screaming] coming up, u. S. Postal service unveiled a new forever stamp honoring the late Supreme CourtJustice Ruth Bader ginsburg. Live from the National Portrait gallery in washington d. C. Starting at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan2. Tonight on cspan series in partnership with the level of congress, books that shaped america. We will feature lewis and clark some of the journals came about following Louisiana PurchaseThomas Jefferson to lead an expedition to explore all the way to the pacific ocean. Lewis chose park to is covered 8000 miles from 1804 to 1806. Lewis and clark kept detailed journals throughout the trip more plant and animal life and potential trade routes. Top author of several books of the expedition better travel of the trail. Join us to discuss the expedition. Watch books that shaped America Petri journals of lewis and clark tonight, live 9 00 eastern on cspan, cspan now, free mobile video up or online at cspan. Org. Scan the qr code to listen to podcasts where you can learn more about the authors