Influence. Next more from the 2023 library of Congress National book festival. Im Kevin Butterfield director of the John W Kluge Center at the library of congress of the clergy since one of the sponsors of this recession will whip out help bring americas most beloved writers here. The kluge center works to bring scholars to residents to her in the collection of the Worlds Largest library and to do work of the sort you hearing about today. Welcome to his joining us liveon on cspan as well. Proud to partner with cspan year. This Panel History is heating up environmental awakening versus Climate Change denial features douglas brinkley, David Alinsky in jennifer white. Seven of doug book seven sl six eventually the New York Times notable books of the year because most recent is silent Spring Revolution. David is off two New York Times bestseller and an artist in residence at nyu. Our moderator is host of the daily to our program when a from debbie a you and you and National Public radio. Please join me in welcoming them. [applause] good morning, everyone and thanks for coming out for this conversation. As your listening i hope youll form your own question because will have some time at the end of the panel and you can step up to the mike beck, let you know when to start the process and you canyo ask questions of our audience as well. Its exciting to speak to people as accomplished as david and douglas but it gets even more exciting when you get on a phone call with them to play in this conversation to realize that such big fans of one anothers work. They were absolutely delighted to speak to one another. I want to start this conversation by having each give us a brief overview of your work for people who havent read the books yet. Douglas . My book is silent Spring Revolution and it is john f. Kennedy, Rachel Carson, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon and the great environmental awakening. I previously had written a book on Theodore Roosevelt and conservation called the wilderness warrior. Its about tr saved you want a 34,000,000 acres acres of wild america, public lands the national monuments, the National Parks and federal bird reservations and created the National Forest service, on and on. I consider that the first wave of environmentalism. Second wave i wrote a book called rightful heritage but fdrs error on how fdr was a tree planter. In fact, never he would fill out a form for occupation, roosevelt would write tree farmer, like thats my job. He was a scientific farmer on the hudson river. Eleanor roosevelt said he knows every flower, note, cranny of the hudson river of dutchess county. I can rattle off National Parks fdr created, many like you could big bend on dday. He didnt counsel the meetings. He was designing roads and how to visit big ben part in texas while the normandy invasion was going on. Thats a dp was in all this. He also created 800 state parks, and they create, plant of the civilian conservation corps, 3 billion trees. The first two waves, the third wave is in this book. And it really is about three president s, no roosevelts, but really i had to begin in 1945 after the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki, birth of the atomic age. We started blowing up Nuclear Weapons willynilly in nevada. Ta we detonated 1054 Nuclear Weapons in america between 19461991. So they became this big antinuclear Testing Movement which Rachel Carson was part of, and many others, Coretta Scott king, norman cousins, Doctor Albert Schweitzer on a global way. Whatst exciting is john f. Kennedy had the vision to sign the Nuclear Test Ban treaty. Due to kennedys astute diplomacy and ecological act of great importance occurred. We stopped testing Nuclear Weapons. He made a deal with khrushchev and the soviet union and britain. So today we cant test those weapons. In my book i ended, i deal with kennedy who loved cape cod, create Cape Cod National seashore, point raised out in california. Fodor island texas. He was trying to save shorelines before he was killed padre island. I do with the first big Clean Air Act of 1963 and the followup in 1970. Lyndon and Lady Bird Johnson had a ranchers of view of conservation, but as you know lady bird whole life was about beautification and antibillboards and really helped safe places Like Redwood National park and create a wild and scenic trail system and our National River system. Much more i tell you you about the johnsons are in the book and the unlikely environmentalist nixon. I only say what is your walden pond . What place in the audience speaks most you . Kennedy was hyannis, atlantic seaboard. Johnson, the beautiful hill country of texas. Nixon did not have one. It wasnt his thing, the environment. But you guys, the public demanded clean air, demanded water to the point that nixon was really forced, and to his credit, data, created the National Environmental policy gives us which Environmental Impact statement, did the Clean Air Act and 72. He didnt want to but he got it done. Mainly created the Environmental Protection agency in 1970 and put a really great man, William Ruckelshaus and in charge of it who went after busting polluters. I will in my talk and just say you guys we are all meeting here at the National Book festival. It is 50ti years ago that the endangered species act passed where we have saved the bald eagle, where we saved manatee, where we the california condor and whooping cranes and sandhill cranes and alligator, you know, it came back with a vengeance. 50 years ago were really successful but do y you realize when that passed in 1973 with the vote was in the u. S. Senate . 92 to nothing. Thats how bipartisan that was because the public after Rachel Carson w took silent spring came out, after people like walt disney were showing how to protect wildlife under movies, and how ralph nader and others were talking about consumer advocacy and you had a group of environmental senators, mainly the one i buy most from a book is frank church of idaho who was original thinker of wilderness, and Lyndon Johnson signed the wilderness act and 64, and thank god he did because we have millions of acres of protected land that roads will not penetrate to these give species a place that they can replenish and survive with all of this helterskelter of the industrial law that wee seem to be hellbet on propagating in north america and destroying our scenic places. David, your book is different. And explain first the title. So the title is the parent and a glue. But before i do two things. When you mention endangered species at a celebration of books the period and ee glue. From one of the things douglas saying, should fdr have it focusing on National Park on dday . [laughing] identifies the only person because they were trying not to deflect the use birdwatcher and fdr went to charlottesville and the did want to be worried about, they did want to give the media a clue pixel and was out birdwatching in charlottesville with some military friends of his, roosevelt was not doing much. So when he came in he kept whatever his days, you know, agenda was. If you cancel did the media would think Something Big is happening. So we happens too a book that date a longtime meeting with amon carter with you go to for what it is a amon carter museum, one of the great art collectors, rich guy, who had been crusading in texas to save big bend park. Roosevelt wanted it to be both a park that was between mexico and the United States with the rio grande in the middle creating one big r biosphere really down along the border. So he simply was going through with his meetings to naked anybody an idea that there was something going on. So back to the parent and the igloo. Nixon also theres a beautiful bridge between the two books because my book really starts right after nixon comes in. So when were talking on the phone it seem like you could think of our books as godfather one and godfather two. [laughing] nixon as a faceting person and i loved what douglas saying about what the Environmental Protection act shows about our action as voters and as people who take polls. Nixon did not care about the environment at all. The famous thing is that when he went to the beach he would wear dress shoes. [laughing] he would think that i was shown too much skin if i i was on te beach,n basically. But he was forced to because everyone in the country really one of the environment cleaned up. What he was saying, the. You tht he signed in the epas in your times that its one of the really Bright Moments in an otherwise dismal year. And that same year president nixon was telling two executive from Ford Motor Company environmentalists, what they really want to do is go back and live like a bunch of damn dirty animals. What the really interested in is destroying the system. But since we want to clean air and clean water and clean skies so much, he had to sign in as president nixons ghost kept calling in today dash and was kyser, not ford motor. But because we demanded it, he actually is no to improve more significant environmental legislation in any president in history. My book is about iron is like that, that period and a glue. The quickest way to describe is to say what the title is. In 1956, american climate scientist begin speaking with american reporters and they said we have been cracking issue about Carbon Dioxide and there is a really good chance it will begin to heat our atmosphere raja refill this one of the first really prominent american climate scientists gave it a year. He said in about 50 years 1956 it could have violent effect on the earths climate. This sort of thing was covered by the times and the times that october, he said that in may so theyre working different seasons. The times said in the far future if Carbon Dioxide warming takes effect, the polar regions will be changed to tropical jungles where tigers will roam through the underbrush and gaudy parents will squawk from the trees. So we had an astonishing headset which one of the things the story wanted to tell. In 2010 aftere the work of tremendously effective mood musicians, the people who decide what to they want your opinion to play, then find a way to make your event in your head. So what you say harmonizes with the effects they want. In 2010, one of the great denial senators, senator jane spinoff of oklahoma bill and igloo on them all. In d. C. Because there had been a heavy snowfall. And he putut a sign on top the said al gores a new home, and then honk if you love Global Warming. So the story my book tells is how we went from that period to the igloo. [applause] one of the things im always curious about when we look at history is what lessons we can take a special lessons that it doesnt seem requite learned yet. David, give us a brief example of a lesson we should take away from prior Environmental Movements. Listen to scientists. I also [applause] in 1977 the most famous warning that came in the 70s and its because of the warnings that i began reading about when i was assigned to write this book, the most famous warning from the 70s was in 1979. In 1979, the academy of National Sciences did the first big report. It was 270 pages. Around half the length of this. They said we have to start acting now and cannot wait until we are sure. Because it takes a whole generation to change energy sources. For all practical purposes the die will be passed listen to science and in 1960 Time Magazine shows scientists as the person of the year meaning kennedy had so reviewed plus Approval Rating so there was this we did listen to the experts so silent spring in 1952 warning about pesticides being detrimental to your health and effect on animals kennedy was asked what about rachel curses uncle in the new yorker . Ill put in an Advisory Panel and research and he found became a with a report that proved the research was accurate cap took a decade to bed and it was not until 1932 Rachel Carson dies of Breast Cancer and 64 and kennedy is dead and 63 but there became this movement the revolution, every turn was the birth of environmental law and even as late as 1965 is called conservation. Lyndon johnsons program was the new conservation but environment started taking it and scientists were using the turn environment and it kind of got banned 72. The big lesson the people, we have to speak up. Chronic chaos, these reports. I deal with them in my book came out about Climate Change. Johnson and 65 tried to give a speech about it as early as 65 but medicaid and medicare and civil rights and Voting Rights of. In the media folk and i print the book a memo any of you remember Daniel Patrick . The mexican advisor during an investigation, the scientists are saying we are in big trouble and in thewe letter it says what does it mean . By the army in new york city forever, verdict on seattle unknown. There it is and you will find other president S Jimmy Carter dealing with solar panels and Global Records we failed. We are today there is no, hero president for the reasons the oil and gas and Petroleum Industry started organizing and making 33foot the Arab Oil Embargo and gas prices went up and they have their own groups to attack environmentalists will take about 30 years in the environmentalists of the 60s and early 70s. They dont like the federal regulation. If youou are a Mining Company yu dont want to be regulated in this movement, they have fun and they stopped in the grand canyons, William Douglas, Supreme Court justice 186 miles hike here in washington to save thest canal to cumberland maryld the highway from coming in win after win after win but by 73 and 80, the reagan revolution kicks in and i now youre environmentalists and you are vilified by the republicans and republicans are seen as captive of the oil and gas industry there were born like Federalists Society and Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation whose goal it makes me want to know your research for the book what you discovered about how the American Public use the governments role addressing Global Warming whether our protection changed. It didnt which i found reassuring and hurting because it is the story the irony and wanted to say a lot republicans are seen that way. A terrible mystery that would be seen as working only. But the game has been to make us change our minds. Once it wase clear as people demand we get regulations so then cougar reagan, i hope im not offending anybody who likes that report but in 67, 78 seeing one would see them all but then by 69 and 70 the environment became the reporters them all over issue the idea was against so governor reagan was saying we need an all out war to stop the americand environment. When people saw the effect americans could have the fossil fuel industries and people who work with them and help designer strategies as human beings resemble a icing this is the best way to do it. 1997 after the close of the First International climate were in critical when they said its not fair, china is going to have to check in, india is not going to check in, its not global, it wont work, they pulled americans is 65 you want to come and what is 2007 after another ten years just like the scientists told you 56 and 79, this is whats happening and we are responsible for profit for republicans, democrats and almost the taken for an apartment because everyone has the even if it was just to get in their car so its something that unites everybody from the holy action and for pharmacy the fossil fuel fentanyl is. Sometimes disastrous, he wakes people up in our hearts go out to live with having been married from the dead for three feel more of the coming, you can feel it and pa in 1970 with the Santa Barbara oil will and it was covered tv and the new color the first time so encouraging delivery or paradise in california a bird stuck in oil and mixing at first minimize it from her first instinct was not that big of a deal but you listen to the interior secretary and immediately called the white house and pulled nixon, dont minimize it, is that plus the woman seven days, blame it on johnson that summer nixon was startled when you return his on the moon, Time Magazine wrote about ohio on fire and the new server on fire and nelson, a senator from wisconsin the 22 beautiful islands of wisconsin, to keep up with the idea they and finding out that your suspicious because that every college theres a birthday office and nixon paying for this . Hard is bring up like every college campus, where is the money coming from . Got a big answer gino who paid for the birthday the first will only be of further flavor alarms off michigan really like them home from places to fish. Really good talking about Environmental Justice issues in American History we take our degree courses and dump them in a world of people of color you get answer questions in the 60s to see the birth of environmental focusing of the five that are reforming africanamerican or 15 the memphis sanitation district realized that for the do you want after 90 the environment grow the civil rights issue is that you look at the west point environmental issue in the black these of the buses and a half days in november are coming in from the back of that was where you dont want to sit because of the air there is a link between ed. John lewis is one of the l leads of the Environmental Justice group particularly in the 80s with theon issue enforces president bill clinton started addressing we do mediation and cleanup, how can we help not poison lower income people in United States whether they are tino, native american moving around Uranium Mines are black americans in urban centers, local neighborhoodd becoming. During the plaintiff for crisis lived through and watched the results jumping years and decades after the industry left but the effects remained. It makes me wonder when you look aiat the overarching history of Environmental Movement has there been missed opportunities of people left behind have different parties come together he might have been able to maintain we saw earlier . I just have this lovely model sitting there were huge missed opportunities for forgot when i was researching was in 97 therapist incredible fight divided in first global treaty over european americans and australia Carbon Dioxide so long to get people to that meaning 91 and 92 it was going to be the centerpiece for president clinton Vice President for something or run on, after the fact that the 11th hour delegatesss were out on tables onto the minute and when it was up for adoption hurting diplomats were going and wanting it is coming back to america and they need to read on those things, we will head matters president clinton. Interviews things are going to take an incredible amount of energy and focus but we can get this done 17 days later, 18 days, theres a story about an error have been making a long amount of time with michael with use of what could happen in the beginning of a new energy for moments like that the history of this debate. In 1979 National Academy of sciences was asked to give us your best opinion, will this happen . They were like the jury toha brg a verdict and this company for is that disturbing to policymakers. They affect the reason for this panel is no reason to believe Climate Change will not occur and no reason to believe changes will be negligible. When scientists went to wreaths lawmakers and this is how the city works, is also a weakness in a way out of lawmakers at scientists, when the change is going to occur at scientists and 79 cents give or take 40 years to policymakers that get back to us in 39 self market also makes me wonder, what are the conditions under which they are more likely to include major environmental change in their agenda . Is a great question because of you have thehe number wilson, if you havent come up with him of. Brilliant herbert talked about the nature of the Natural World, some people have a kat or dog or worldwide remember and they are not fully completed because others care about the two so you look at the residence, we have had little roosevelt we are going to put Natural ResourceManagement Section of america the beautiful. National priority and then have been because prioritize the president often only get one or two things the really be big on and agreement he did not and fdr elevated quite a bit. Nobody sensed close to, the love of the Natural World and wanting to know everything about it so barack obama who did the Affordable Care act once he got that done, there was no conflict in the tank for and we are dealing with voters and they think they will be okay for another year. Its just how you prioritize most sane people have water stewardship. The politicization. Are talking much about inflation and interest rates, how does that fit into a president ial agenda . We can all feel it in our lives, one the Environmental Group we have is no important legislation has ever been passed during bad economic times, is the same way if you have a down to the Kitchen Table will get rid of this adds, right . [laughter] one thing we do is you know the dolphins will be okay for another year, we can make fun of the government making that choice but to support. We tend to make, two and one thing about this issue in making 7779 when the science really did miss work, that was during the Terrible Energy crisis so we chose ways to get more oil and coal at the time when the earth oil andng for less especially coal. Rachel carson, if you realize she worked for fish and wildlife and wrote extraordinary books about that. If you havent read Rachel Carson on the ocean, you must. The o maryland turning it into a park, she started getting information about agency and pesticides number regulated. They were spring chemical, jimmy carter on hospice right now and october 1, 99 everybody family died of pancreatic cancer. His mother, his father, his sister gloria, his sister ruth, his brother billy, he left to go to the navy but where they had gotten from a they were playing that cluster belt of people who died of pancreatic cancer the Rachel Carson and theres battle because of a woman named Marjorie Spock member the baby doctor spock . The babyes doctors sister and a big piece of land in long island and the Mosquito Control and usda were spring all the crops, she was an organic farmer she was wanting organic produce and susan close to my right to be taken with she is sitting loss of the Supreme CourtWilliam Douglas rice gets published in Readers Digest and douglas to push douglas would call it a wilderness bill of rights of have a godgiven right in the u. S. To clean breathing air and clean water should be built in two our system in the 60s and looksy like that will happen but opportunities were missed and now live in a country with pockets that are present and pockets are so guaranteed work. When Planning Panel are surprised to hear from you about pulling data for americans are right now when it comes to Global Warming the i effectivens of the information and future its not that people dont believe Global Warming is real but there is another element that they have a processing, explained that. Is a great editorial seemed to tell you my comments like, the office panel. [laughter] but he wrote a great thing and all feel it, record the cultural force so even people who know and are like the other side is about climate, i hope it gets even harder and i dont like anyway one of the fascinating about the nihilism was never designed to win the argument and the people became climate deniers were going to attack scientific studies in the same with tobacco, they knew they would lose but if they could delay it by ten or 20 years, they have ten or 20 years more of the money. A lot of this issue we did have people who would believe the arguments. Thats all gone now. You can fool some of the people 16 times times that when you get to 33 or 34 have a summer like the last couple, they are like guess scientists are right so now the question is, dont want to do anything. Remember on the phone one of the ways deniers would take preexisting ideas violent to this issue is developed, Patrick Michaels who was complaining you dont put enough skeptics america remington cnn, patient, whose the scientist have on air parking lot minor change . It was michael. Cap michael when he would go small events and small towns trying to get people to not want climate, with a forget the science, what they really want to do is take money you earn and give it to people didnt earn it. Whats incredible about the rights you have to read it, somebody wants to document america is worried these monitoring factors wouldnt pay for it in history. His book males and. [laughter] [applause] when you read his book, there is no escaping legacy of idiocy from these people and my corporate cap, a bunch of buffoons gave birth to this Climate Denial Movement and may have ended, but denial is you cant deny it anymore but so what, what can we do . The age of denial i think is over but his book uses the people were realize have bad faith citizens and politicians willing to go there. So what do we do something to run into a lot of environmental policy, people say theres nothing i can do individually to make the difference change their practices we got about 15 minutes left vermiculite to the microphones, what do we do about that . I want to say anything is because it can lower be in your estimation because anything i say will make me seem less n. Smart. I respect climate scientist catherine she is speaking, the question is what we do . I thought i would reach her prescription. When it comes to crime action, individuals matter what stomach thats why the most s effective thing we can do is advocate for action where we work, study, and live by using your voice we can maintain because one of the do i have time for a story . Yes. Do you remember Keep America Beautiful ad with diverse peoples is working beside the highway and people are going fast food out the window, maybe they didnt get the right order but people are causing purpose out the window and was named they used for him in the 70s and he looks down in the camera herere referred to as this ad, apparently the most famous Something Like five or 6 billion times thats made a generation and very conscious of the environment, its actual things the american beautiful funded by the packing industry. Their interest in the early 70s for this solution people can stop and appreciate are saying is you have to do is so whenever the corporations do, it is taking care of their financial obligations and the native american actor is from sicily, a higher actor in louisiana. I want to make sure is many as we can hear. Thanks so much and amazing conversation, youre both willing and i look forward to reading your work. My quick question is, what are your thoughts on over Climate Change, do you think it encourages . Question, professor hanson is a great hero he thinks its one of the great ways when democrats came back into power and until, they didnt see change, he began to think the only way to be effective was through the courts talked about economy and climate separate issues for a lot of politicians especially with the obama example and help people with healthcare and talk about conservation nature and a lot of climate to focus on how we are all in peril because of this and training or so i guess i was wondering, do you think Going Forward there will be a shift for politicians after getting policy done healthcare costs but crime issues after a natural disaster, do you think there is a path forward for is not seen as this liberal thing but it is intertwined with economic equality. A great question, stunning questions. The sense that a lot of our solutions are going to come through innovation and technologies. In rhode island with the land from solar and you experience will have to be environmentalist, and activists arguing the money. We cannott keep going the route we are, we have to rebuild city after g city burning, global so always good to make that and in california for example in washington rightfo now but 20, 0 youre not going to get fossil fuel in california. Whats that mean . Ford and gm are starting to invoke, the sixth largest economy in the world, they are not wedded to the gasoline world so horrible things going on in the key will keep reminding people of the economics, American Leadership and i tell young people, dont get depressed, we dont need moody and sour and dark people. Be positive, join groups and have fun saving earth and joined a small group. If you dont have the time to get into Environmental Science or engineering, great but others can join the group to save local wetlands or a species or a better air Quality Standard in their state. Theres so much to do but you join something and get engaged, we are going to grow and so many citizens in a moment that will kick in because the one thing we done well, we deserve to be criticized but did get the terms ecology and Environmental Science and farmable oclock going. I dont know the university know not prioritizing Green Building standards. We are getting there. As we like things quickly the iphone and instant information and move, its taking time so just love the earth and planet and fight for it and be excited about it, no psychological meltdowns. I know its horrible, i get watching hawaii right now, i do but i dont want to say we are doomed, we screwed up, the plan is disappearing. The book of revelation is true but what will that do . I am struck by your passion and curious what agent how you got into environment. Thank you for that. My mother and father, my dad died a couple months ago but my mom and dad were teachers and i have the luxury of having a trailer and we got to visit National Parks and state parks and go camping all around our country and i felt in love with the land and california and mahoney government so it became american conservation is what i love but i owe it to my mom and the travels in the book festival, i did the New York Times where they asked me who what i like to go to dinner with . What letter would you like to have a dinner with . Hard and my first choice was henry david, i just loved as a kid and i added Rachel Carson and i love her thinking so much and charles darwin, showed good writing cannot be matched in exploration. Your background, what brought you to this . I thought youre going to ask about the dinner. Ro [laughter] ive lost relatives recently so the first thing i would do would be people who past but i wouldd like to sit down and say you were exactly right but what got me into the environment, i couldnt believe we screwed up and i wanted to tell a story and i want it so nothing like this could happen again. We had an incredible start so it seemed like a story worth telling because theres so many great things will always pay the bills we dont like and on time so it reminds people. We have time for one more question. You talkk about the Political Data between the publicans and democrats because the context of urban world design, Rural Communities do rely on actual resource fossil fuel industry to keep communities afloat so how do you think we can have conversations are productive that will lead to change ask. We got a couple minutes left. I go to toledo ohio and talk to anf audience partially Trump Supporters and use the word environmentt and they dont want clean . Dont want to fish the river again . I started saying the word environment, see you are liberalism for democratic party. In view rigidness if you say Climate Change and environment, they are out. See you as the big democrat on the side so some is the way we talk to each other but i keep wanting to mention writers but wendell berry, you go back to a small town instead of the intellectuals and new york and los angeles, back to where you are from and work in the community and build trust on Environmental Issues and show what Sustainable Farming is liki or how to restore burnout land. Its hard to do but beautiful to read his thinking, what if i favorite writers. Just because douglas talking about writers, it was so well known by mid century, written in the late 40s scientific expedition he sent them to the arctic to research Climate Change and thats how long its a great way to turn product of something. I would your question and look from the view of the citys talking to people and one thing that madeie me kisses the divide weve seen already and will grow about beautifully, people with money if we continue down this road people in the cities will be able to and it will production from Climate Change and that will be very bad as individual people