Transcripts For CSPAN3 Effectiveness Of Financial Sanctions 20171206

At any time. This hearing is entitled evaluating the effectiveness of u. S. Sanctions programs. I now recognize myself for five minutes to give an opening statement. Im pleased to welcome our colleagues and our witnesses to the subcommittees hearing on u. S. Sanctions from iran to north korea to russia and venezuela, sanctions are increasingly used as an instrument in our Foreign Policy tool kit and Congress Must ensure that they be held accountable for results. This hearing will examine major sanctions programs as we seek to evaluate their effectiveness. Let me highlight three points that may provide context for this discussion. First, sanctions are key to bringing about behavioral change abroad and this committee has stressed that they should be designed accordingly. That means calibrating sanctions and sanctions relief based on specific and achievable actions we wish to see from a foreign actor. Tailoring sanctions in this way is important for secondary sanctions, given how banking restrictions tend to have broader and less predictable effects than primary measures. In october the Financial Services committee reported and the full house overwhelmingly passed the Otto Warmbier north korea sanctions act a piece of legislation that i was proud to sponsor with our Ranking Member. The bill would impose financial sanctions targeting every area of north koreas economy including all Petroleum Imports and any deployment of labors abroad. This weeks test launch by the dprk of an icbm that can reach any part of the United States under lines why maximum pressure is needed. Our bill outlines the principals that the majority and minority here consider essential for the use of secondary sanctions not only with respect to north korea but other countries as well. Namely, we should strike with as much strength as possible, provide the president with flexibility and link the termination of sanctions to a narrow set of realistic objectives. This kind of approach is distinguished from what we might call, quote, symbolic sanctions, end quote. That is devoting scarce resources to designations with no real impact on our Foreign Policy objectives or tying sanctions to a list of outcomes that no one expects to emerge in the foreseeable future. For sanctions to retain their credibility we must guard against such half measures. If sanctions are akin to antibiotics then we should ask what indiscriminate use will do for antibiotic resistance. If we want to preserve the trust that the world continues to hold in the u. S. Financial system, we must think clearly about what it means to restrict access to that system and communicate with equal clarity so that others understand the rational that governs both the imposition and lifting of our sanctions. The second point to underscore is the need for continuous engagement with congress when the executive chooses to wield its sanctions power. As we know, the executive possesses broad authorities under the International Emergency economic powers act. What may be less wellknown is that lays out explicit and reports so that these authorities are exercised with appropriate oversight. The committee would encourage our witnesses to examine whether the office of terrorism and Financial Intelligence is upholding the letter and spirit of these provisions. Tfi has been the recipients of bipartisan good will and using Emergency Powers accountably will help ensure that such good will is sustained. This brings me to point number three. As our country becomes more reliant on economic sanctions to carry out its Foreign Policy the Treasury Department will be increasingly called upon to make its voice heard on the substance of that policy. We have already seen bureaucratic changes that reflect the shift. In august, the president signed into law the countering americans adversaries through sanctions act which included the secretary of the treasury as a member of the National Security council. In light of this trend we should expect that congress will look more and more to the department and particularly to tfi not only to implement sanctions but to help shape their goals, scope and strategy and to answer for sanctions shortcomings if they fail to meet their objectives. Of course treasury under takes these things to a certain extent already but its accountability will only grow in these debates. I want to thank our witnesses for testifying today and look forward to working with them so our sanctions programs are coherent, realistic and impactful. The chair now recognizes the Ranking Member of the subcommittee, the gentle lady from wisconsin, gwen moore for five minutes for an opening statement. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. Let me thank our guests from the Treasury Department. I always look forward to hearing from the experts and, you know, information is a powerful tool. Just let me begin, of course, by thanking my our chairman for calling this hearing and as he indicated before, im a part of the bipartisan work on the north korea sanctions, so proud to have been worked on that in a bipartisan manner and i do believe that weve passed a strong bill and i certainly hope that the administration does the hard work of implementing this bill. With that said, i cant pretend that im not concerned about the general state of the United States Foreign Policy and this administrations commitment to implementing our sanctions programs. I can tell you that as an american, i think there are many other people who join me in feeling that we are isolated and weak with even the british debating whether or not the president of the United States is welcome in england. This is stunning. My constituents are very concerned about the extent and depth of the relationships with human rights violators, with putin, relationship that of course has the president and on many of his cabinet and advisers mired in deepening and widening scandals relating to criminal connections. Im concerned with reports that the department of state eliminated the office of the coordinator for sanctions policy and we did the hard work in this committee to draft this north korea sanctions bill and im sure that our witnesses are aware that the u. S. Currently has sanctions against russia and congress recently passed further sanctions against russia. It is puzzling to me why the department of state would eliminate the office that would coordinate these sanctions policy. I think you can catch my drift and perhaps even empathize with me. Cutting out some people who could help you all. Im sure youre also aware that the administration seems not to be implementing these russian sanctions. Forgive me, but i grew up in a time and era whereas a Public School student as a little girl we were diving under our desks we were so afraid of russia and so it is puzzling to me why were not implementing those russian sanctions at this point. Its im worried that the administration is more interested in implementing the goals of the kremlin to not have sanctions and the statutory mandate of this congress to expand and strengthen russian sanctions. I really am interested in hearing about the treasurys efforts to make sure it is implementing congressional intent and vigorously enforcing sanctions against russia. Im going to apologize in advance for bowing out of the meeting somewhat early because i have a conflict of another meeting that is extremely important as well, but i do look forward to hearing your testimony. I will be hear to hear your testimony and answer some of these questions. Thank you so much and mr. Chairman i yield back. The gentle lady yields back. Today, we welcome the testimony of marshal billingsly, the assistance secretary of the treasury for terrorist finance. We helps oversee the administrations efforts in administering economic sanctions programs globally. Prior to yoing treasury, he served as managing director for Business Intelligence services as deloit advisory. He held positions at department of defense where he served as deputy under the secretary of navy for special operations and low intensity conflict. He has also worked as a nato instant secretary general for defense investment and as a staff member, he is a recipient of the defense medal for distinguished Public Service. John smith is the director of the Treasury Departments office of foreign assets control. Which is responsible for administering economic and trade sanctions to advance u. S. National security and Foreign Policy goals. Mr. Smith is previously served as ofacs acting director. Prior to joining ofac mr. Smith served as an expert to the Al Qaeda Committee in 2004 to wu78 and as a trial attorney, from 1999 to 2004. Each of you will be recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. Without objection, each of your written statements will be made part of the record. Mr. Billingsly you are now recognized for five minutes. Chairman bar and Ranking Member moore. If you could pull your microphone a little closer that would be great. Thank you for inviting me today to offer testimony on the effectiveness of sanctions and to talk about a number of the matters that you chairman and Ranking Member have raised in your opening statements. The Treasury Department has in my view pioneered the use of targeted sanctions as a tool of state craft and we are continually refining how we Employee Financial pressure. In the interest of time, ill skip to the bottom line up front which is that i believe that there are several reasons why sanctions are quite effective tools. Chairman, i do actually agree with the way you laid out the overall context of sanctions but i believe i can name and i will name numerous examples in which our sanctions have been effectively and id like to provide four specific reasons or four specific matters which i think effect the effectiveness of sanctions when we choose to deploy them. This administration has aggressively targeted isis leaders and operatives for their support around the world. The result is with that we have engaged in over 70 actions against isis leaders, their facilitators. U. S. And u. N. Designations along with close cooperation between the United States and iraqi authorities in particular, i just came back from baghdad more than a week ago, have effectively shut down a number of Exchange Houses that were functioning at key nodes for isis or dash as we might call them and their financial facilitating networks. We continue the effort against al qaeda and other terrorist groups through both unilateral and multilateral actions and secretary mnuchin recently announced the opening of a rather significant and rather innovative breakthrough which is the creation of a multinational terrorist Financing Targeting Center the tftc that is housed in saudi arabia and in conjunction with that announcement, the six gulf cooperation councilmember states, seven of us all together, impose sanctions on a network of al qaeda and isis financiers in yemen. This was, in fact, one of the biggest multinational designations ever outside the united nations. Weve also targeted and im sure youll hear more about the way weve gone after dozens of north korean individuals and entities including coal companies, banks, financial facilitators. Any revenue that north korea generates that can be used to support or actually any revenue they generate period is used to support the various Weapons Program that the regime has and were determined to cut that off. Finally, and i know well want to talk more about iran today. Sanctions were the dominant factor in forcing iran to the negotiating table and were committing, the administrations committed to combatting irans maligned behavior around the globe. Even hezbollahs leader as acknowledged that our donors are scared to remit funds. I mentioned four specific reasons i think sanctions are effect yichlt we deploy these against the backdrop of an International Financial system that we are continuously working to improve, to create enforceability, cape bts to create standards through the financial Transaction Task force to cause the Financial System to embrace antiMoney Laundering and counterering the standards of terrorism. This has been a patient and longstanding effort of the Treasury Department. It is a bipartisan nonpartisan endeavor that has stretched across multiple administrations and its because of this backdrop of driving the creation of these regimes that we are, in fact, able to cause our partner nations to work with us and to embrace and enforce these measures. I would say in the interest of time a second reason that sanctions are so effective is because of the financial diplomacy that goes with the actions we under take. A specific treasury action by ofac or by fin sin is often proceeded by and almost followed by engagement with the treasury and state departments with our allies and partners and as a general proposition sanctions are most effective as the Ranking Member implemented when theyre implemented multilaterally. No administration would hesitate to take action unilaterally to defend the American People as necessary. But when and where possible we do work with other nations and drive concerted action. And we of course pursue financial diplomacy through a variety of multilateral and multinational countries but the tftc that was just established. Im at time but simply to summarize the final two reasons which i can come back upon as you wish, the third reason and a third important criteria we have to be clear and consistent in our messaging. When we sanction. What is it that were seeking to achieve . I suggest how weve approached venezuela is a good example. The fourth is that influence aechktiveness and mr. Chairman you mentioned this specifically is the extent to which the targeted individual their finances, do they touch the International Financial system. We would, i would agree with you that symbolic sanctions probably are not worth the candle, those there are times and places where that is worthwhile. Appreciate the chance to appear before the chee. Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Director smith, youre recognized now for five minutes. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me here to discuss the Important Role of sanctions in addressing some of our nations most prominent National Security and Foreign Policy challenges. As the director of the Treasury Departments office of foreign assets control, ofac, ill speak to the sanctions my office has imposed against supporters of the destabilizing and provocative actions of governments such as north korea, iran and russia as well as a range of other actors engaged in conduct to our nations ideals and interests. When deployed strategically and with provision, sanctions are highly effective way of pressuring regimes and malign actors to change their behavior. These regimes and actors ultimately rely on funding to operate and by freezing their assets, cutting them off from the u. S. Financial system and restricting their ability to interface in an International Financial system the choice to them becomes clear. Either modify your behavior or accept the isolation and negative economic effects. One of our highest priorities is targeting the north korea regime and its key financial vulnerabilities. This year ofac has issued eight rounds of sanctions related to north korea adding 112 individuals and entities to our specially designated nationals and block persons list, what we call the sdn list. The regime requires revenue to maintain and expand its nuclear and Ballistic Missile programs and we focused our efforts on areas where we can have the maximum disruptive impact. Just last week, ofac sanctioned several Chinese Trading Companies that were responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars of imports from and exports to north korea over the past few years. Between 2013 and 2016, that action combined with diplomatic pressure and mull till lat ral sanctions helped pressure china to announce it would halt all coal imports from north korea representing a blow to the regimes revenue. Iran is another top priority and since january, ofacs issues eight traunchs of sanctions involving iran dead ig naturing targets around the globe in connection with the irgc and irans Ballistic Missile program, support for terrorism, human rights abuses, cyberattacks, transnational criminal activity and other destabilizing regional activity. We recently designated the irgc under the global terrorism executive order pursuant to the countering americas adversaries through sanctions act. The legislation that you mentioned. And just last week we sanctioned an irgc force countering feeting network that deceived european suppliers to procure advanced equipment to print yemen bank notes potential worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Another significant priority for ofac is addressing russias destabilizing activities in ukraine. This summer we continued our regular pattern of sanctions and designated 38 individuals and entities involved in the ongoing conflict in ukraine and more recently weve been hard at work implementing requirements and publishing guidance related to the legislation passed by congress. I want to be clear and els the treasury is fully implemented every requirement delegated to it within the statutory deadlines. Weve also used our sanctions this year to address the erosion of democracy in venezuela, disrupt major narcotics traffickers in mexico, colombia, peru and venezuela, increase pressure on the assad regime in syria, deny terrorist groups like isis and hezbollah the ability to access the u. S. Financial system and shine a spotlight on various governments for serious human rights abuses. We have dedicated the bulk of our resources and attention on the issues most pressing to our nations security. We greatly appreciate congresss partnership and continued efforts to ensure that ofac and tfi are equipped with adequate tools and authorities. However, ill note that our existing powers are relatively broad and in order to achieve maximum impact we need flexibility in administering and enforcing our sanctions. The increase in congressional reporting requirements with no expiration dates ultimately draws resources away from our primary sanction activities. Thank you again for the opportunity to speak with you today and i look forward to continuing to work with you and your staff as we try to maximize the impact of our sanctions. Thank you. The gentlemans time is expired and the chair now recognizes himself for five minutes for questioning let me just first commend treasury and the Trump Administration for abandoning this policy of strategic patience that has led north korea to obtaining a Nuclear Arsenal including a Hydrogen Bomb and as we saw earlier this week an intercontinental Ballistic Missile capable of reaching the United States and a reentry vehicle for that missile. I would commend the treasury for its aelt rounds of sanctions. I do want to read into the record an op ed that you probably saw this morning in the the wall street journal entitled maximum pressure on north korea, china and u. S. Still havent imposed tough sanctions. But it is still far from using maximum pressure. It may not work in the end but the alternatives are terrible. Wednesdays icbm test shows kim is getting closer to his goal of threatening u. S. Cities so why is the u. S. Not using all the tools it has to stop him . So my question is this to both of you, in a hearing before the Senate Banking Committee Earlier this fall, treasury under secretary mandle stated that the u. N. Pertaining to north korea represent quote the floor not the ceiling thats why under the house passed bill that we were referring to earlier the north korean sanctions bill that was bipartisan we go beyond those resolutions to target all oil exports to the dprk and all of its foreign labor. If the u. N. Resolutions are truly just the floor for u. S. Policy, what is us policy doing to the same incremental strategy that has gotten the kim regime where it is today. Well start with you, mr. Billingsly. Thank you, mr. Chairman. So obviously the u. N. Sanctions regime is multinationally crafted and it requires the chinese and the russians to come along and we, in fact, reengaged in wake of the recent launch to drive again the need to further ratchet the pressure on north korea for its continuing behavior. I would say we have actively worked to dry up all of the different mechanisms by which the north korean regime obtains petroleum and other Petroleum Products regardless of the fact that the resolution that they ultimately did not agree to the u. S. Position to shut off all crude oil imports they agreed to a reduction in crude and to a sensation of oil products. Back to my point about not everything is a sanctions. Theres a lot of other things the tfi does in the financial work that goes beyond the individual sanctions world. By which people were elicitly flowing petroleum into north korea. Weve identified the latest evasion technique that the north koreans are using which involves north korea oil freighters pulling out in the middle of ocean and linking up to do a ship to ship transfer. Weve noticed a lot of these. Were further investigating the network of shell and Ownership Structures that are created to hide the true ownership of these ships. On labor, we have been i personal have engaged with a large number of countries overseas particularly in the middle east to to secure agreement to expel north korean slave labor from these countries and to identify the companies that were being used to exploit these people. Those are just two examples you did mention in the testimony about the designation of the four Chinese Trading Companies that have conducted business, im sure youre familiar with the recent report that indicated that there are over 5,000 such companies in china and we just want to know how treasury can make a dent in these chinese firms if youre focusing on individual designations as opposed to the secondary sanctions on these middle man Front Companies . The challenge we have is when we see these press reports and these 5,000 here, 3,000 there, the change is that we need we have to meet evidentiary standard for the measures that we take, legal standards, so we do need much more granular information so that john can take his actions. When we get these leads we follow them up aggressively. My time has expired. As our recently passed house bill makes clear we believe there is a need for treasury to exhaust all options available especially in light of this most recent Ballistic Missile test. Id like to recognize the Ranking Member for five minutes of questioning. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. Thank you again. One of the most horrific acts occurring anywhere is the ethnic cleansing thats occurring in the rohingya people who fled to bangladesh since late august and i was wondering is there any program under the global mcknitsky act that targets the senior most members of these Security Forces would likely ordered these rapes and murders and acts of arson . Have you identified any of these folks and when do we expect to see sanctions announced against berma . Thank you, Ranking Member. Im glad you mentioned the global mag knits ski act. We appreciate Congress Giving us authority. As you mentioned this authority gives us the authority to target those that are responsible for such activity no matter where they occur. Congress has given a mandate in that legislation asking us to report at certain periods and take action and the next period comes up in december and i think the Treasury Department is working to make sure that we implement this statute fully. So it is something have you identified any people in berma . We have not under global. Its authority that has just been delegated to us. Thank you for that. I was arrested hanging out with john louis, warning some of the freshman about him, for protesting at the sued aknees embassy for crimes that have been committed in sudan and the president still remains under indictment. We imposed sanctions for Human Rights Violations and yet we have relaxed them under this administration. What did i miss . Well, we actually removed them. Exactly. Why . We removed them, by the way, on the basis of criteria established by president obama. So he, president obama, established five specific criteria against which the sued nooes would be held accountable. Thank you. My time is waning. Im going to continue on this theme of sanctions and human rights because im confused by what the policy of the administration is. We have seen him the following obamas agenda. He is reimposing sanctions against cuba. He has decided that venezuela has become enemy number one because of the governments role in undermining democratic processes and institutions and yet we see that he he shows a fondness for totalitarian strong men around the globe including the philippine president duterte praising the theory tearion leader of egypt who had his political opiates gunned down and jailed and the president thinks theyve done a fantastic job in a very difficult situation and of course defended president putin against accusations that hes murdered journalists and dissidents so im wondering it seems to be such a checker board approach to sanctions . Can you help me sort of sort this out . What i want to ask you mr. Smith, is sometimes you can give waivers for i want to know if there are any waivers that we dont know about. You can do it without coming to congress for reducing relinquishing waivers against russia . Thank you for the questions. With respect to the human rights related designation weve continued to actively target over the past year human rights concern in north korea, iran, south sue dan and other programs. We have continued our focus on human rights concerned. In terms of waivers with respect to russia go on. With respect to russia i think most of the waivers that might exist in statutory programs have been delegated to the state department under the various authorities. Ofac can issue particular licenses and under the i have two seconds left. Very quickly. My time is expired. The gentle ladys time is expired. The vice chair of the subcommittee and auth rtd of the strengthening oversight of irans finance act the gentleman from texas, mr. Williams. Thank you, chairman barr, on your important work. Given the overwhelmingly increase aggression under the kim regime this legislation cannot be timelier. I would like to recognize our experts. I appreciate your time and i appreciate your expert testimony. America and some of her most important allies such as israel under the constant threat by those that wish to harm us and the work that both of you do in the sanction field has to keep the bad act rds away. There are areas that we can i am improve in dealing with the worlds foremost state sponsored terrorism in iran. After eight years of flawed policy culminating with a treshl jcpoa im encouraged by the president s direction. Thank you for being here and iran continues to be extremely concerning to me and those i represent. We must do all we can to ensure that appropriate sanctions are enacted. To that end i recently sponsored as you heard strengthening oversight of irans access finance act which was reported favorably out of this committee and was introduced by senator cruz and perdue in the senate. My legislation will increase congressional oversights of Aircraft Sales to iran. So mr. Secretary, what similar steps can be taken to further prevent the abuse of the Financial System by iran in a way that promotes terrorism, human rights abuses or assistance to the assad regime . Thank you, vice chairman. As you said iran is the foremost sponsor of terrorism around the world and they have used their new found access to Financial Resources to further support terrorism and instability across the middle east. The iranian force in particular is heavy engaged in destabilization in syria, in iraq. They are moving money to hezbollah, to hamas and other terrorist organizations and obviously their role in yemen in the civil war there. Much more needs to be done to constrain irans ability to obtain and move finances to terrorist organizations and thats why congressional action under catsa with regard to the iranian guard core, as the Parent Organization of the is a major entity or set of entities interwoven throughout the iranian economy. One of the things weve been cautioning our european allies and others is to be very careful as you look at doing business with iran, because we have sanctioned the irgc, the europeans have as well and we expect that extreme caution should be exercised before entertaining any type of business in that country. Particularly when they have no safeguards and no antilaundering but when theyre engaged in counterfeiting behaviors which fly against the norm of the Financial Services sector. Thank you. Id like to further discuss the tools that the in august Congress Passed any sanctions legislation given the Trump Administration new tools for the fight against iranians missile program. I firmly believe that iran will continue to develop new ways to work around u. S. And International Sanctions to continue their campaign of terror across the globe. Another question i have is how do we maintain press ne on irans leadership and Financial Institutions insuring that the irgc and related financial entities do not create loopholes to avoid these sanctions . Quickly, in two ways. Ill talk with one and director smith with the other. With regard to pressure on the regime, one of the things that they have to do is they have to create a Legal Framework and be held accountable for stopping the financing of terrorism. They do not have sufficient laws in iran. I dont know that they would honor those laws even if they had them and we ought to insist that until they do have antiMoney Laundering set of laws enforced, sanctions should be imposed on their financial sector. We also need to keep doing what were doing and ramping up pressure exposing the bad activity where we see it across the board and exposing it wherever we see it around the world no matter what country, no matter what type of company and were exposing the different types including the counterfeiting ring that i mentioned earlier. I yield my time back, thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina mr. Pittenger for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you gentleman for being with us today. Appreciate your commitment. Director smith, i would say to you as well, mr. Secretary, would you please discuss with us the tools that you believe are effective at your disposal that will allow us to address export controls . Id like you to discuss sifius as well and what modification should be made to that and the relevance of that committeen particularly as we deal with nations who have supported our adversaries and also seek to acquire assets in their own country . So if you could respond to that ill be grateful. Thank you so much for the question. I think its very helpful and been a very helpful to have the interests from congress to making sure we have the appropriate tools. I think the power that congress has given us and the oversight that Congress Plays has been a very Important Role in our success in being able to go after these types of activities. The fact that we have the authority to call out these activities, freeze their assets, prohibit u. S. Persons wherever they may be from engaging in this type of behavior and congress nudging us to add an additional designations or sanctions for example, with respect to the irgc where we designated before but we added to it under the terrorism authorities and all its agents, affiliates and officials worldwide. Thats been a very helpful power for us to have. I think ill yield to my colleague marshal. Ofac plays a role in terms of reviewing some of those but its not my expertise. Thank you. Congressman, the issue i have is that the Administration Process belongs to a different part of the treasury im hesitant to kind of opine when i think they would give you a better answer but ill arrange that discussion. I thought maybe you might have a perspective of it just from i do in the sense that we that we need to ensure that our that the critical pieces of our economy are safeguarded from adversarial acquisition or influence. Do you feel theyre vulnerable today . I do feel theyre vulnerable today. Do you feel that the expansion of the oversight of siffus is warranted today . Not sure i understand whats implied by that greater capability for oversight. Greater capability of investigation from understanding the origin of funds, the structure of acquiring entities to make sure we truly understand who is behind acquisition of different companies. Joint ventures and the like. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Very good. Mr. Secretary, another point, whats the typical evidentiary standard thats needed to designate a foreign entity for violating the u. S. Sanctions . And as well, when dealing with the support of terrorism proliferators, what should that standard be . Im going to defer to director smith because hes got a team of lawyers and counsel that help him on that but it does tend to vary. Thank you. The standard is the basic administrative standard thats used across the federal government. Its the reasonable cause to believe. Its a relatively low standard in terms of when you think of the overall standards of proof of beyond the reasonable doubt in the criminal context or even a preponderance of evidence that says more likely than not, ours is just a reasonable cause to believe. Its basically are we reasonable in believing that and that is the standard that we use in our designations programs as well as our enforcement of sanctions violations. Given the actions of various countries like qatar in the past, and knowing we have an mou with qatar at this time, obviously there have been concerns relative to ransoms for kidnappings and safe harbors and other concerns, do you believe sanctions were warranted on qatar or other countries that have been predisposed to be supportive of our adversaries . Congressman, thats a great question. I didnt have time to get into it but an entire paragraph in my testimony talks about all the nonsanctions, dimensions to financial diplomacy and one of the things i emphasized was the importance when with sanctions is a tool available to us it is a threat thats lying there on the table that we can use to great effect with various third parties. One of my very first trips in my capacity when i was confirmed by the senate was to qatar. I will tell you that we do have issues with qatar on the terrorism front. We have issues actually with many countries in the gulf on various terrorism issues. It differs country by country. The qatari did very, very recently engage in a series of arrests of very senior al qaeda financiers and were we view that as crucial and were watching the prosecution process that is now unfolding very, very closely. Good. They to date have not prosecuted anybody till now. The gentlemans time is expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from arkansas mr. Hill. Thank the chairman. Appreciate you holding this hearing that weve done so consistently now over the last few weeks to assess how americas doing on our sanction regime for some of the worlds most rogue nations and sure appreciate our witness esservice to our country and tackling this tough issue because were not going to be successful in countering terrorism without every asset at our disposal, diplomatic, military and financial, economic. So thank you for leading the economic cause. I want to talk a minute since weve talked a little about north korea. Lets talk some more about russia. I was particularly pleased secretary tillerson appointed ambassador vol kerr as our special envoy regarding trying to break the frozen conflict around mince being. I think this was something missing from the previous administration. America really partnered in the eu and heading in a different direction and i was intrigued by your comments talking about russias obviously destabilizing actions in the ukraine but in addition to that it continues to meddle is Eastern Europe generally through cyberattacks, incursions, disinformation campaigns and even evidence that they interfered in mont negative rows elections last october. Its for this reason back in june that mr. Swaysi of new york and i introduce the fighting russian cooperation act, hr 2820 and one thing id like you to do today is if you could take a look at your legislation and give me your thoughts about it officially from the treasury. It sets up an Anticorruption Office over at state as a political matter to work particularly in the eu with our European Partners about taking our knowledge, our capabilities that we have both in cyber, elicit finance and partnering with them to counter russian political meddling and i think it would be important because you do so much work in the Technical Assistance area where treasury would help train our u. S. Diplomatic efforts in that regard and make it part of our nato effort as well. We suggest that anticorruption become part of natos readiness plan. If you would take a look, we have 12 republicans and four democrats and i appreciate the work with mr. Swaysi on that. So given this political interference that youve established both in the ukraine and in montenegro, what is treasury prepared to do to to punish and deter activities like this under your existing authorities you have . Congressman, you have highlighted a number of worrisome activities by the russians. I would also add to that list actually the Money Laundering behaviors that weve seen them engaging in some of the balltic nations as well as siep prus and other places which are when you talk about corruption, theres such a corrosive behavior that strikes at the heart of the financial integrity of these countries and so it is it is crucial in particular that we go after russian organized crime. Weve done a number of actions together with the secret service and others in combatting russia organized crime and russia organized crime tracks right back to parts of the regime in various ways particularly when you Start Talking cyber matters, so i think your pointing in the direction that we have to go which is to focus on that corruption. I hope that maybe we can have a roundtable or classified briefing on that matter and just we spend a lot of time as we should on north korea but i think it would be useful to learn more here in the time i have remaining, i know that Congress Asks finsin and your offices for reporting, a lot of reporting and i think thats important. Our oversight responsibility is critical here and you have that both to Foreign Affairs and some aspects and here at the Financial Services committee. What are we are these requirements becoming too burdensome, how can we consolidate our request to get the information we want to have for oversight. It seems like every measure we introduce has a treasury reporting obligation. Could you reflect on that . Congressman, were beyond were beyond reasonable here. The reporting burden from north of 80, 90 different reports, some that date back 20 years its crushing. Its absolutely crushing on us. In your opening comments you talked about how we needed to bring every asset to bear and i will tell you that within the very small structure of tfi were talking 700 people total of which half are focused on banking oversight, so when you talk about john shop, my shop the under secretarys organization, we are consumed by reports and as a former senate staffer, i cant tell you that i know all of these reports are being read. Thank you, sir. And thank you, mr. Chairman, for the time and i hope were more sensitive about our regulatory reporting burden on these important actors. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from West Virginia mr. Mooney. My questions for secretary billingsly, you mention on page three of your testimony that some circumstances providing Financial Intelligence to a trusted foreign partner is all it takes to shudder terrorist Exchange Houses or freeze a bank account. I want to go back a step further because we have to get that intelligence from somebody first before we can share it to somebody. We have to find it. The discussion today as revolved around the way the u. S. Sanctions rogue nations and others that pose a threat to our people and our economic and Financial Systems and with the conflicts around the globe we have partners who want to aid the United States in these fights, give us information, some are countries but some are individuals or group that wish to hate us, give us information on the certain activities of the funding of terrorist organizations. So my question to you is, would it be helpful to our cause in general to get this information if your office could reward those individuals or groups that step forward with helpful information about where our adversaries are keeping their finances and if so, what incentives could be used . Congressman, id like to talk with you more about that and understand but i think that is exactly the kind of innovative insightful support that through Legislation Congress could help us in the missions that we are to undertake. Youre spot on in terms of the challenges we face and the informational gaps we often have particularly when it comes down to that last tactical mile of getting to the adversaries bank account so the idea of a rewards program. I can tell you from my time in running the special operations, we used reward authorities to great effect, to elicit information and we used information and paid rewards, for instance, leading to the identification of where saddam husseins two sons were and that was highly effective. In line with your idea, id like to explore that with you further. Congressman, youre on to something there. Id like to talk to you further about that too. I have more time left. Changing questions, more specifically on a country, the imf estimates that in 2016 the venz way lan economy contracted by 18 and saw inflation of over 250 with the further contraction of 12 in 2017 and inflation of 650 . So our understanding is that the executive order the president issued in august which restricted dealings in venz wail adebt has further restricted bond lek widty and added to pressure on president maduro. Hes like a sweaty ryano running out of control around that area. Given the regimes resilience up to this point, can you articulate what the end game of venz way la sanctions is . The government hasnt been moderating. What outcome are you aiming for and how appropriate are existing sanctions to achieving it . Venezuela is in a the economys in a death spiral due to the kleptocratic policies of the maduro regime as they have engaged in wholesale looting of that country, of the state Oil Enterprise and the ensuing humanitarian crisis that is erupting around us and this is a major National Security issue on top of a humanitarian in the making. It effects key allies like the columnions next door. Im very concerned about looks like were on the verge of an epidemic now. Hes preventing and through his own economic mismanagement they dont have the resources to buy the antima layerals in particular. The president has made extremely clear, we will not participate in the looting of that countrys economy. Sanctions have been imposed on any new debt or equity and those sanctions will be removed if theres a return to normal democratic process in that country. America could have stopped that and didnt and now we have really bad actors trying to impose evil regimes on folks that dont care about human life and stealing and its terrible. So i would like to encourage you to keep that up and anything we can do to help. With that, ill yield back the balance of my time. The chairman recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Sherman. Does the venezuelan government own assets congressman, yes, citgo is a wholly owned subsidiary. So how come we havent seized those assets for the venezuela people. We could seize them, sell them put the money in trust for the venezuelaen people. Are you just going to let maduro run the company into the ground, loot it and obskond with the money . Congressman, excellent question. If you need any legislation, why havent you submitted it . I bet you we could pass it. Thank you, sir. To your point weve, in fact, specifically moved to prevent maduro from being able to access any funds from citgo. When the new executive order was issued a specific provision was included could he sell the company and keep the money. Can they just sell all the stock . Could exxon buy the stock tomorrow . Could amazon buy the stock tomorrow . The citgo Ownership Structure id have to get back to you on. If you dont want if you dont want to be here after the barn door close, if he can sell the entire company tomorrow and i dont think you need siffus to deinvest in the United States, so any way youll just more work for you when you get back. Speaking of more work, obviously we require a lot of reports but thats because if we dont require reports we pass laws and nothing happens. As to north korea, the strategy of this administration is to go after individual Chinese Companies. That may raise the cost of doing business for north korea a bit but if the top 25 Chinese Companies in an industry refuse to do business with north korea the 26th biggest may not care about doing business with the United States and they may decide to pick up the north korean business instead. The only way youre going to accomplish anything is if you at least threaten to sanction the whole country. Its got to be something that hits the government in beijing not just the pocketbook of a few Large Companies because it is not a successful sanction if you force somebody to pay a higher atm fee because the banks with the lower atm fees wont do business with them. They goal here is not to annoy pyongyang, its not to destroy pyongyang but it is to put them in a position where they feel their economy might be destroyed. Lets turn to iran. Designated as a terrorist enemy, yet every day ma hon air lands at airports in europe and every day the flag airline from that company flies from that big airport to the United States. Why are we allowing european air carriers to start their flight in a ma hon invested airport and come to the United States . Why are we not going after the airports or are we serious about mahon air . You have an answer . Its a great question, congressman. We are we are very serious about it. It is the aviation arm of the custodies force. It is what they use to traffic weapons, terrorists. So why are we still doing business with airports that accommodate them . Why are american planes still buying fuel from the same companies that sell fuel to them at european airports . Two points on that, one is that we have been in a departure from the previous administrations approach we have been aggressive. Setting a rather low bar for yourself. At least we clear the bar, right . You make a good point and i think it would be very prudent for any company that transacts with that airport i dont think they should be cautious, i think they should nail them then theyll know. Lets talk about the irgc. There are about 800 irgc companies that yet to be sanctioned. Youve sanctioned about 80. Youve got sanctions on individual planes, im not counting those. Likewise only a handful of companies and individuals that have done business or provided significance have suffered sectionry sanctions. Is your standard of proof too high . Is your staffing too low . And how many farsy speaking individuals do you have working full time on this . So congressman, i would say answering a few of your questions there quickly. On ma hon air, we have actually done some designations in the last few months against european airlines, Ukrainian Airlines that had been servicing ma hon air and we actually took action. Were is that a is there a flight thats been canceled as a result of that . There have been some routes that have been stopped over the proceeding previous months because of ma hon air because of the u. S. Governments outreach. On the questions you asked on making sure standard of proof. Its the reasonable believe standard that we have. Its not a too high. Its something that we can live with but in terms of what were trying to do with irgc and other targets, trying to hit the maximum impact one. Were not trying to give you a numbers game how many farsy speakers working full time. Time is expired and we may have an opportunity for a second round. Time with the gentleman is expired. We may have a chance for the second round. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from mr. Hollings worth. Hoosiers in the ninth district feel unsafely and i know you and your teams are working every day to make sure the world is safer for americans at home and abroad. I want to spin the globe back to venezuela for a moment. You had mentioned that theres a restriction on new debt with regard to venezuela. I certainly understand that. I know also that that restriction is fairly broad and the summary of new debt as provided by ofac is somewhat difficult to parse through and better understand with regard to russia specifically. I think there were a number of frequently asked questions that were also posted to help people parse through what is new debt versus existing, et cetera. I wanted to find out whether theres any possibility or whether theres an expectation that more clarity will be provided around the new debt definition for venezuela specifically and that can go to either of you, frankly . Thank you for the question. We have been responding and we published additional faqs with respect to many of these questions with respect to venezuela. In fact, we did put something out with respect to what the meaning of debt as well. We can refer those faqs to you or your constituents. Were getting a lot of calls on this and were trying to be responsive. Fantastic. As mr. Sherman and others have mentioned, some clarity around what transactions are permissible. Ive had some constituent companies that are concerned. And dont want to be unnecessarily or unintentionally caught up in something thats larger than they are. So i appreciate that as well. If you can have your constituents reach out us to we have the compliance hotline that operates as well as the licensing division. Were taking a lot of calls on this in trying to make sure we get the clarity out there. Fantastic. I know that my constituents back home and the companies that they own, operate or manage want to do the right thing, understand as you well said the humanitarian crisis as well as the National Security crisis this presents but they want to do the right thing and understand where they are with regard to the law. Following up on venezuela further, i know that one of the things that economists have talked about is just the need to restructure the debt in venezuela and with the new restrictions in place, that cant happen or may happen only in some sort of gray zone of understanding. Is it your understanding that we are going to require the maduro organization, administration, government itself to change or is there any capacity in which those officials themselves can get into compliance such that there can be a restructuring of the debt by imf or other External Resources . So, you know, on the imf question, this is a country, this is a regime that has failed to publy size any of the standard data by properly functioning economies. On top of that youre dealing with a regime when maduro and his cronies, his Vice President is a drug king pin and he put him in charge of the debt discussions. Its a designated individual. On top of that, this is a country where its constitution specifies that the National Assembly is the only organization that can authorize the issuance of new debt but what maturo is wiped out democracy. He overturned the National Assembly these people have run for their lives. Hes now established this constituent assembly which is packed full of his people. This is understandable to say, the regime needs to change, period, in order for us to accomplish that. I think were saying we need a return to the democratic order. Got it. Understood. And then is there any feeling what the time frame or timeline might occur . Do you see any sort of weakening in resistance by the administration, the administrations cronies, et cetera or has it been as obdur rate as its proven in the past . To the extent that the regime is enriching itself at the expense of the people, its clear that the gravy train has come to an end. Theyre out of money. They crashed their economy presumably at some point people are going to look around and say, wow, the United States is designated me, the canadians have designated me, the European Union is starting to designate officials above me. Maybe its time to look at doing something different. I hope that comes soon and in my closing i wanted to thank you both for the efforts that you under take every single day. I yield back, mr. Chairman. The gentlemans time is expired and theres been an interest in a second round of questioning of our witnesses our willing to take that responsibility on. We appreciate your testimony today and again appreciate your service in the interest of our National Security and using every economic lever we can to deter our adversaries and i do want to followup on some of the questions regarding russia as we discussed earlier. I had an opportunity earlier this year to travel to Eastern Europe and visit with some of our nato allies. We went to germany and poland, estonia, the newest member of nato, and i can tell you that our allies and the foreign leaders in these countries were very consistent in the message that they deliver to us and that message was that in addition to russias illicit its annexation of crimea and the frozen conflict in ukraine that there is a whole range of malign activities that the russians are engaged in to destabilize our nato allies from disinformation campaigns, to incursions into the balance tick with their affair air force. The amendmented coup in mont negative roe, the militarization of its been four months since the enactment of the counter american sanctions act which was the sanctions legislation on russia and i want to just ask you on what has treasury specifically done in implementing that sanctions legislation and secondly, what has been the response, what has been the response of the russians to that and what, if any, behavioral change have we seen from the russians and ive probably given you too much to answer right there so ill go ahead and leave both of you to consider both of those issues . I can start out and say weve been very busy implementing the requirements and were doing it on time per the legislation. Every every 30 days starting at day 60, congress and that statute require that we do some kind of implementation with the act with respect to russia sweps the other parts so on day 60 we started modifying our directives that were put out under the programs to tighten the restrictions in there. We have done that at day 60 anticipate 90. We did additional modifications to continue tightening and make sure that we also explain that to industry and to the rest of the world so they know what they are and are not allowed to do. What has been the russia response to this . The russians havent been happy as you can imagine. They were concerned with the legislation. I think they probably aired that publicly with you all at the time. I think weve heard that as well. I havent had any conversations directly with the russians myself. Have you seen major behavioral change . The disinformation campaigns, the destabilization efforts, the russian aggression continues, is that correct . I think the russian aaggression has continued. So that brings to mind the question of how we can make sanctions more effective and better changing behavior and deterring russian aggression and i want to focus on energy, the Russian Energy sector. Many of our nato allies have expressed interest in the united achieve Energy Independence certainly independence from russian gas and so i want an also in the case of lithuania, the Nuclear Facility is being constructed about 30 miles from velnus, so the question is should we consider sanctioning and getting more aggressive on the nordstream 2 project, other Energy Projects that the russians are endeavoring to interfere with nato and get nato countries dependent and reliant on Russian Energy . I think you probably heard, i know you all heard up in congress as well as the administration on the views of European Partners and allies with respect to Energy Independence. I think in the legislation, congress did impose additional restrictions, additional tightening of the sanctions with respect to many of those features and my understanding is that congress engaged with the European Partners as well as did the administration. From my perspective i think were still hearing from europe as we implement those sanctions. Im not sure that theres anything that ive seen that we is needed at this time. If the russians do not respond to what weve done so far, we ought to send a message to the russians that if they continue their aggressive behavior, their energy their Energy Exports to our nato allies should be in the cross hairs of our sanctions regime and thats the view of one member of congress but id say that there are other members of congress who feel the same wail as well and with that my time is expired and so ill now recognize for a second round of questioning the gentleman from california mr. Sherman. Okay. Id like to go back first to venezuela. Do i understand youll be going back to your office to make sure that venezuela cant just sell citgo and take the money back to karak cuss . Do i have that right . Its prohibited under law. So they cant neither the dividends. The dividends are not but what they can of course do is overpay for oil . One way to dividend if you have the retailer is just have them pay 70 a barrel for the oil that comes out of venezuela and when the world prices closer to 50, are we monitoring that . I will verify but please answer for the record. Yes, sir. But youre saying they cant sell the stock of citgo nor can they pay a dividend . They cannot pay the dividends under the executive order. A wholesale kwadx of citgo woul trigger a number of things. What would it trigger . If they were going to buy a Major American Company that would trigger siffus but i dont know what it would trigger and whether they sell or they could just sell some of the stock . So please answer for the record but more promptly than we usually get questions for the record, what are we doing to make sure that citgo is not overpaying its venezuelaion affiliate but second what are we doing to prevent them from selling some or a majority of or all of the stock . Now, as to mahon air, it seems like ukraine was low flying fruit because it just so happens the Ukrainian Airline is also in the airline servicing business, united doesnt refuel American Airlines flights but in some airports the airline is also but its not just sanctioning in that circumstance. Mahon air is flying into milan and munich. Are we going to continue to allow american planes to fly into there and are we going to continue to allow foreign planes to fly from milan and munich into the United States . I cant talk about what we would do in the future but what i can tell you why havent we done it already in the past . This is mahon air. Why should american towns be connected by direct routes into airports that are servicing mahon air . The Treasury Department we try to prevent american airplane travelers from coming close to terrorists, youre flying in and the terrorist airlines already on the ground. Excuse me. Please continue. The european this is just to remind that everyone in the audience this is not an open forum for conversation and we will enforce that rule and the witness may answer the question. Weve been engaging extensively with our European Partners that do not have ma hon air on their sanctions list. Weve been trying to provide them the information they need to have and at the same time enforcing and implementing the most major impactful sanctions designations ill ask you to answer for the record why we should allow americans to fly in and out of airports when as they land theres the terrorist right there. Sounds pretty dangerous. And ill go back to the question of staffing. Do you have enough staff to do your job, gentlemen . Congressman, thats always a challenging question. The formistic view is that i would need to coordinate with omb and were putting the budget request forward. The practical reality is that when you look at the use of treasury authorities, we are we are burning hot. I think we just submitted to the finance committee our the survey thats taken of our employees and if you parse through the survey data, what you see is that our people maintaining a Work Life Balance for our people is something were keeping a close eye on. Your people are working enough that their spouses are complaining sounds like we should get you more people. The taxpayers getting their moneys worth. And im told that between the two of you you have maybe two farcy speaking individuals. Can either of you be confident that between between. Two of you you have more than two that are working on iran and that actually speak farcy . You cant tell me you got five or five other six that you know of . We do a list every year to make sure we do have farsi speaking individuals. When we find a language talent we need. I have 30 people in myfarsi , let me know. Chairman, im always on the lookout for grade resumes. The obama Treasury Department authorized aircrafts this allows our deposits to be used for a state owned airline, iran air that was sanctioned in 2011. In a Committee Hearing last april, we learned that iran air flu 114 flights between iran to syria, likely as an airlift in support of the syrian governments atrocities. So this is an easy question here, a simple yes or no. Has iran air ceased all sanctionable actions. I have to get back to you on that. Which Treasury Departments have financed aircraft for iran . I cannot answer that for you. Im not sure that any have. Can you assure us that a u. S. Bank or a foreign bank with u. S. Access would not be exposed if it did business with iran air. Are you saying, can we assure you if any bank engaged in this transacti transaction, where the money goes to in iran, i cant assure you or give you any guarantee of where that goes. Do you know whether people in iran have engaged in human rights proliferations . Absolutely you should know that, we will commit to engage with you at any point that you want to have the discussions. We have two questions we need to get if you get back with us on that. Another question i have. As part of the omnibus package that was requested earlier in the year, we requested a Treasury Department under the jcpoa. We have not got that result yet. If you can help us there. What is the status of that report, and do you feel that any entities that had their sanctions lifted under the jcpoas have engaged in sanctionable activity . We continue working on those reports, we have 90 a year were working on. Most we get in on time. If we see sanctionable conduct, we act against it. Mr. Chairman, i yield my time back. The chair now recognizes mr. High zinga. Good to see you again. In 2005 bank co delta asia was determined a bank of concern. They are relatively small institutions. Are there larger foreign Financial Institutions that treasury is going after. We as a matter of practice dont tip our hand in advance of any actions. I dont want to know names, i want to know whether there are bigger fish to fry. I want im looking for some reassurance that treasury is looking at this and is looking to pursue this. The best reassurance i can give you, we put out an advisory to all of our fine institutions which showed the type of activity gandon was engaged in. And pointed our banks at an upper part of china, adjacent to north korea, where we advise our banks to be vigilant. You can interpraet from that that we have a lot of concerns. We had a great classified briefing yesterday. Maybe this would be an issue and a subject that we could if need be, we need to go into a classic bipartisan briefing. Quickly, in july 13th, Washington Post article, high level north Korean Defector noted how even when north korean firms are on the black hiss, he said, quote north korea is 100 state enterprised. The companies changed their names the day after they were sanctioned. That way the company continues, but with a different name than the one on the sanctions list. So i would like to enter that article into the record as well. I assume without objection id like to enter an article into the record . Thank you. Weve also seen north korean entities designated by treasury. Is there more energy being devoted to enablers in china and southeast asia, rather than play whackamole with dprk entities . Yes, sir. The key is not to play whackamole. The key is to map these networks out. And take them down. Implying not just sanctioned authorities. But working with our partner 2345igss, their communities, the Intelligence Community and so on. Otherwise, youre treating symptoms of the problem, not the root cause. I wholeheartedly agree about just this one stunned me. Theres media reports that there was a proposal circulating within the u. N. Security council that would have frozen north korean leaders assets. I said to myself, i didnt know there wasnt an asset that wasnt frozen already. And if it hasnt been frozen. Why not . I mean, this is the sixth Missile Launch test that theyve done, if we havent gotten to everybody, every korean significant korean, north korean leaders assets internationally which the reports are, they are significant, we know that they have no problem starving their even people. For advancement of both the weapons as well as their own aggrandizement. But what is treasury doing . Is treasury going after those banks that hold those assets as well . We are. Okay. I look forward, maybe we can unpack this a little more in a slightly different setting. I think this is a significant issue, and this is one of the few tools that we know has worked in the past, and we need to continue to implement that. With that, i yield back. Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from connecticut. My first question is relating to the office of assets foreign control. On september 26th, ofac announced it was designating 8 Financial Institutions along with north korean banks abroad. How is it that there are any north korean banks that remain unsanctioned. How many more have not been sanctioned. We are identifying the banks for the ease of the public, but the state owned banks had already been designated as a their assets would have been frozen in the United States. We sanctioned the additional financial representatives around the world, because we were adding them to our list. Its important for us because our list is used around the world. We want to make sure thats on every banks filter, no matter in the United States, but also around the world, so they get a hit even if its not in the United States. What is the real impact of blocking a north korean banks property. How would they have access to th them. The impact can be different based on the entity that was sanctioned. The north korean bank would not have assets in the United States. When i say the impact of sanctions is freezing the assets in the United States. Putting them on our black list, so no u. S. Person around the world can deal with them. Also our sdn list is used around the world. Thats the impact, making sure not just in the United States, but the rest of the world can follow suit and hit our alarm. Its not just banks that use the list, there are certain governments that will pursue parallel blocking actions on their own, based on an ofacs sanction. We do get a magnifying effect from a number of key countries. Second question, still on north korea. Im going to cite a New York Times article. In this particular case, i think theyve done some good work. The article on september 8th, it was reported that north korea may now be exporting less to china, but north korea may also be receive iing trade credits f china. This may nullify the sanctions. If chinese entities are negotiating trade sanctions, shouldnt the treasury be designating them . Thats a great point. And i think wesh seeing, as they evolve in response to u. N. Security council resolutions, a constant effort to evade sanctions and barter is one of the ways trade credits or barter is another way they are trying to evade the effect of the financial hammer lock we are endeavoring to put on them. We are tracking that. If you trade with north korea, i dont care if youre trading in dollars or whatever, youre any barter relationship exposes you to u. S. Sanctions. Thank you, ill yield back. The gentleman yields back, theres one minute left remaining, if i could, ask one final question to our witnesses with respect to north korea. A lot of the questions today on north korea, and focused on secondary sanctions on chinese entities. We talked a lot about the fact that those secondary sanctions may not have been fully exhausted. To the extent that is the case, is that because of u. S. Fear or concern that we may lose beijing cooperation . Or is it merely a resource issue for ofac and treasury. Its not a fear. We are engaged, we have a game plan, we have a strategy, we are executing that strategy. That involves a number of different prongs of activity. Lb we are maintaining synchronization with the state department, Law Enforcement intelligence and the department of defense, when it sometimes seems like were not quite sure why were synchronizing things the way we are, id be happy to come up and explain to you, because there is a method to this full on economic pressure campaign. W8, again, id like to thank our witnesses not only for your testimony today, but your service and the work you are putting in to keep the American People safe and to advance the National Security interests of our country. Without objection, all members will have five days within which to submit additional questions to the chair. Which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their responses. Please respond as promptly as you are able. This hearing is now adjourned. Theyre much more repressive than iran is, and much more responsible for terrorism. Why do we focus on iran and not sau saudi arabia . I dont understand that. Dont you worry about these sanctions and what theyre doing to the people in these countries . Like the people of cuba . Were supposed to be supporting private enterprise, and the new sanctions are hurting the very private families that have bread and breakfasts, that have their own restaurants. Those are the ones being heard by the new sanctions that trump has just imposed. What do you think the sanctions on iran are doing to the normal every day iranian people. Shouldnt they be rewarded for the Iran Nuclear Deal instead of being penalized . I think you have it all wrong, Congress People and ofac. Go after saudi arabia. Go after the Saudi Company you want to be traded on the stock exchange. You know, saudi arabia is the number one weapons purchaser in the United States, and what theyve done with those weapons is to destroy the people of yemen. Tomorrow, testimony from Christopher Wray on oversite issues. He speaks before the house judiciary Committee Earlier this week, the Supreme Court heard an oral argument in the case of Masterpiece Cakeshop versus colorado civil rights commission. He refused to make a cake for a gay wedding, saying his cakes are art, and he doesnt bake cakes if it goes against his religious beliefs. A vendor cant refuse Service Based on Sexual Orientation or gender. You can hear that oral argument friday on cspan. President trump holds a Campaign Rally in pensacola florida. Those comments start live at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan 2. You can watch online at cspan. Org or listen on the free cspan radio app. Sunday at 7 00 p. M. Eastern, on book tv, haroon ula discusses his book. Islamists, extremists and the fight for seeper supremacy. Content is king. Distribution is queen. And she wears the pants in the family. If you think about that, the way i like to think about isis and others, were in a content war. Former msnbc news anchor greta van susteren, everything you need to know about social media without having to call a kid. Everyone can get together and join together and do incredible things. There are stories in the book about what others have done with social media, social media, its not really new. All thats new is the delivery platforms, think about it. We have smoke signals, thats social media. The party line. Everything is amplified and in terms of how far you reach and the speed of the communication. For the full schedule, go to book tv. Org. Cspans studentcam video documentary competition is underway much and students across the country are busy at work and sharing their experience with us through twitter. Its not too late to enter. Our deadline is january 18th, 2018. Were asking students to choose a provision of the u. S. Constitution, and create a video illustrating why its important to you. Our competition is open to all middle school and high school students. Grades 6 through 12. 100,000 in cash prizes will be awarded. The grand prize of 5,000 will go to the student or team, with the best overall entry. For more information, go to our website, studentcam. Org. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or