Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Lady Bird Johnson 20240712

Only begins with trees, flowers and landscaping. Thats from a film created by the Johnson Administration with Lady Bird Johnson talking about beautification, her signature issue as first lady. She was a natural campaigner, successful businesswoman and savvy partner to her husband, Lyndon Baines johnson. Good evening. Tonight well tell you the story of Claudia Taylor johnson known toe everyone as lady bird. Here too tell her story tonight are Cokie Roberts, the author of two books about womens political history, founding mothers and ladies of liberty. Thanks for being here. And we have an expert, with a number books from Martha Washington to Michelle Obama, currently working on a new biography of Lady Bird Johnson. Ladies, i want to start with the beginning of where we were 50 years ago this week. Bhamp the immediate challenges in the first terrible day. They were enormous. First of all, nobody knew if there was a widespread plot. So the country was in terror for a period of time. Then they had to be both taking over and making sure that theres a peaceful transition of power, without seeming to take over because of the image of being pushing the other, the kennedys out of the way. So they had to be very, very careful in thousand they handled it. Lyndon johnson was very lucky to have lady bird with that, because she had a good ear of knowing what to say and when to say it. In particular what did she do . She felt like she was on stage for a part she never rehearsed, but. She immediately started taking notes. We have her shorthand notes while she was still waiting to hear whether president kennedy had died. On the way back, on the plane, she started making plans for putting her Radio Station into some sort of guardian blind trust so they would not be accused of profiting from it. So she really took over very fast. She was a good study. This was an administration that documented itself extensively. There was a daily diary she reported of herself. Also the Lyndon Johnson phone tapes, and then there was a naval Television Crew that followed the first couple around and documented. Is this new to this administration . Is or had this been going on for a while with president . I think the amount of documentation is new. She didnt record every day, because some days were too full. She had a reporting machine, and on days that were too bus,she would stuff brown envelopes with menus or lists of people she would seen. She would get an hour or so some day and report. Those recordings are still being transcribed. Theyre wonderful. Her white house diary, thats only an eighth of what she has on the tapes. So were waiting for the rest of it to come out. There were, before this, recordings, we have some roosevelt recordings, and John Quincy Adams wife wrote the autobiography of a nobody, which tells you something about her state of mind at the time. So there was i think that most first couples have an awareness of the magnitude of the job, but Lady Bird Johnson had such a sense of history. She said she dared herself to keep a diary and understood that was something special. Throughout this program we will see some of the video from the naval crew that followed the couple around to document their days in the white house. Were going to start with one of those. This is Lady Bird Johnson on november 22nd, 1963, recording the first tragic day that brought them into the white house. Mrs. Kennedys dress was stained with blood. One leg was almost entirely covered with it. Her right glove was caked. That immaculate woman, it was caked with blood, her husbands blood. She always wore gloves, like she was used to them. I never could. That was somehow one of the most poignant sights, exquisitely addressed and caked in blood. I asked her if i couldnt get somebody to come in to help her change, and she says, oh, no, thats all right, later i may ask for mary gallagher, but not right now. That was something, for a person that gentle, that dignified, you could say there was an element of fierceness, she said, i want them to see what they have done to jack. It was decided that he should be sworn in there in dallas, as quickly as possible. There, in the very narrow confines of the plane, with jackie on his left, her hair falling in her eyes but very composed, and then lyndon, and then i was on his right, judge hughes with the bible in front of him, and a cluster of secret Service People and congressmen we have known for a long time. Lyndon took the oath of office. What are you hearing there that people should understand . Shes very specific. I had forgotten about how she gets so many details. Her description of that, but also before that, when she talks about walking into the hospital and the kennedy car was still there. She saw this bundle of pink blossoms and the blood around it. Shes a very astute observer. And shes a good writer. Shes also clearly upset in that recording. You can hear it. Shes trying to, both describe the situation, but at the same time give homage to Jacqueline Kennedy, this very meticulous woman, caked in blood, all of that to say shes trying to tell you what was happening, but not in some ways sensationalize it. For her following in mrs. Kennedys footsteps, Cokie Roberts referred to this sort of delicate dance of being respectful, but needing to take control. What was the two womens relationship like . Many people said this is a daunting act to follow, and she said, well, feel sorry for mrs. Kennedy, not for me, because i still have my husband. I think she made a special effort not to imitate in any way some of the projects she is considered, for example, beautifying the mall. Lyndon johnson advised her not to do that, because the kennedys had done something similar. She was amazingly absent she didnt have envy of anybody. She seemed to consider the kennedys a different generation. I find her amazing in that regard, that she knew that Jacqueline Kennedy was extremely popular, yesterday she had a lot to offer, too. She filled in many times. Mrs. Kennedy was pregnant, she lost a baby, she wasnt well. A lot of times there were things she didnt want to do, and mrs. Johnson filled in. She knew the role well, and she was a quint essential washington political wife. She had been on this scene since the 1930s. She knew it well and she had a cadre of other political lives who were just extraordinary women. They all gathered around her, and that made that that also made that transition somewhat easier. We should say at the outset, among those women was your own mother. Can you talk about your experience . My father was first elected to congress in 1940. He was 26. My mother was 24. Think of it. That was, of course, before world war ii. The rules were still there of calling. So you had to go calling. The Supreme Court on monday, cabinet on tuesday im making of the days the senate on wednesday. There was my mother, this 24yearold girl except people were older then than they are now. Her first day of calling, and the horn honks outside. She goes running down and its Lady Bird Johnson and colleen gore, al gores mother, and they took her calling, and the relationship has been very warm since. All through their husbands political wives, and when they both became widows, they traveled together and had a wonderful time together. Were going to step back in time. Before we do that, a reminder about your involvement. They programs are interesting because of your questions. We hope youll join in tonight. You can tweet us at the website, were also already taking questions from people on our facebook page. And you can call in. Here are the phone number. In the eastern or central part of the United States or in the western part and well mix in your calls. Her biography. Where was she born and to whom . You cant really say its a town, but its a house outside of a town, carnac, texas, in 1912, in december, 1912 in a big house. One of the things i found in studying first ladies is how many married down, into families considerably below theirs economically and socially and even education. And it made a big impression on me to drive past the house where Lady Bird Johnson was born, that 17room house with six fireplaces and the big white columns an then go 300 miles near the louisiana border and then drive 300 miles west and see to the low to the ground fourroom cabin with Lyndon Johnson was born. So she came from a far wealthier background than he did. What are important to know about her childhood and what shaped her . I think the death of her mother. She was only five when her mother died in what i consider mysterious circumstances. And she was pretty much a very lonely child. She said she wasnt. But how would she know. Her two brothers, they were sent away to boarding school. And they were a good bit older. And they were sent away to boarding school. The older one, tommy, the oldest brother, she never knew him. When he died in 1959 of pancreas cancer, she cried harder than she had ever cried in her life. So it was lonely. The name lady bird, it came from a nurse. But she says in her interview with Mike Gillette that it was two little africanamerican playmates, the children of hired help who decided to call her that because they didnt like claudia but it was not considered acceptable to say that she had africanamerican playmates so the nurse was brought in and it was a tribute to the nurse. And an aunt who was dysfunctional. The aunt was someone she ended up having to take care of so there she was a little girl in this big house with a father who was around and had no clue what to do with her and this sort of nutty old southern aunt. And some playmates here and there. But the big advantage to that was she became a world class reader. Well how important was it for southwestern women of this vintage to get an education . Was it unusual that she went to college . Yes. Slightly. But by that time more women were going to college. Were talking the 1920s and into the 30s. So, yes, it was more common than it was a generation before that. Do we know why she was interested in journalism . I think for a lot of women, do you have an answer to that she was interested in high school so it is an early interest. And i think it was part of her plan to get out of that area, to get out of that part of texas. I also think for a lot of women, they could write. They had learned to write and that was something that they thought they could do. My mother wanted to be a journalist too and they both ended up as politicians. [ technical difficulties ] [ technical difficulties ] [ no audio ] [ lost connection ] she said when she got in the car that does morning and they drove down to san antonio to get married, she didnt know she would get out. So she didnt make up her mind until about 6 00 when she went down to the church. And she was 22 and he was 26. She wasnt quite 22. She was just 21. Because her birthday came afterwards. But that was normal. 21 to 22. That is a normal time to get married. Before we learn more. Lets take a few calls. Well begin in oakland, california, what is on your mind. I have two questions. Did she have any contact with Jacqueline Kennedy after she was first ladies and did lady birthday johnson have doubts about the vietnam war. Thanks very much. Did they continue the contact after the Johnson White house. Yes. The first tax bill, when that was signed and Lyndon Johnson signed that he went with lady birthday johnson to the house of Jackie Kennedy and gave her four pens, one for her and one for each of the kids and for the library. During the white house years the contact was rather formal but johnson invited mrs. Kennedy back but she never came back while they were there. They gifted to the children, i know the first christmas for example they gave john jr. A fire engine they reached out to her. So in the 1980s, after she was widowed, lady birthday johnson and Jacqueline Kennedy established a friendship when they were both on Marthas Vineyard in the summer. When you look at the documentary evidence, she supported her husband publicly but in her private, did you find any doubts about the vietnam war. Well she said if youre going to start a war it has to be because of some big event like harbor and to me that metropolitan she thought they didnt have it in vietnam. It was so hard with all of the protests and it was personal and that would put you in a position where you want to support him no matter what. Michael is in washington, d. C. Hi, michael. Caller hi, susan. I want to let you know this program is just fabulous. Thank you so much. I watch it from the beginning. Thanks for watching. Caller my first question is did lady birthday johnson have the former first ladies live ago the time, Jacqueline Kennedy didnt come back until the nixon administration, did she have her back at the white house and was she the longest living first lady. The longest living was bess truman. She made it to 95 and lady birthday johnson and betty ford were both 94. So it is very close. The other question about did other first ladies come back. I dont remember who else was around to come back. Eisenhower and truman. Bess no. I know they went to sign the medicare act and there i am. That was all over texas. A night really. Some have persisted through the years. Weight was not his problem then. Sometimes he sweat down three or four suits a day. All i did in those days was wait and look. This is in competition with the carnival. Never try to do it. They are fun to watch. The commentary. Could i say those are accessible to anyone line. If you put johnson lbj home movies, 35 come up and you could watch them all. And she said that was her Favorite Campaign and the only one they lost. Would you talk about his progression from congressional aide to congress. When she married him he was a congressional aide and she got the new years eve 1934 and married five or six weeks or something and he served about a year before they went back to texas. So he could be head of the National Youth administration. And then she goes back in 1937, when hes elected to congress. And she is there for about a dozen years as cokie said, as a congressional wife and shes very good at networking with other women and a loyal member of the Congressional Wives Club and then he gets elected to the senate in 1948 and a very loyal member of the senate wives. But in the house years, in 1941, around pearl harbor, lyndon enlisted. He was in the Naval Reserve and he enlisted and went off on active duty and she ran his congressional office. I dont think we have another first lady who ever ran her husbands office. Bess truman work the in her husbands Senate Office for pay and Lady Bird Johnson was careful to say she was volunteering her services. And it is remarkable. He just left her in charge and off he went. And then here is reported that she was running the outfit a whole lot better than he did. But coming back to what they were saying about networking with the political women, it was an Extraordinary Group of women to begin with. But they were not sicking around drinking tea, they were very politically active. Both in their husbands campaigns and in the voter regs registration and all of that. But they were very active in the district of columbia. It was before home rule. And no matter where they were from and a time when it was not particularly popular were it known where they were from, they worked with the africanamerican women here in washington on all kinds of social service issues. And they really did create a social safety net. One thing that was interesting in the home video was that she said my job at that time was to sit and watch. At what point did it become this is 1941, become okay and acceptable for spouses of congressional candidates to become seen as being actively involved . Well it was different in different places. And some had been active from the beginning. Again, we talked about my vocation and john quincy seeked election and god knows he wasnt working on it. So they had been much more active than anybody gives them credit for all through history. And certainly Eleanor Roosevelt was out there doing campaign. So it was considered bad form if you didnt do a certain amount of campaigning. But it was behind the scenes. And i think Lady Bird Johnson deserves credit for being the first wife of a president ial candidate to go out on a speaking tour of her own. That was really very new. Because even Eleanor Roosevelt campaigned for other candidates but i dont think she campaigned for her husband until he ran for the third term because it wasnt lady like to be open about your support for your husband. You were behind the scenes and organizing pim to put up posters and letters and than1 og unununn but lady bird said the wife of a candidate, her job is to walk behind him and say thank you, thank you. So it was pretty behind the scenes until i think the 60s. But Jackie Kennedy did some ads in spanish for instance, to try to get something we talk about all of the time now, to get the hispanic vote. Next is a question from owen in marietta, j georgia. Hi, owen caller hi. What is your question for us. Caller my question is i have two. First what were Lady Bird Johnsons hobbies, and two was her relationship with her kids. Owen, how are you . Caller im 9 years old. And how did you become interested in Lady Bird Johnson . Well my mom has been telling me about these programs and i really like to see for a while and i wanted to be able to call in and watch one and i am able to now. Well thank you very much for participating. That is great. So the question was did chef any hobbies. I would say her number one hobby was nature the outdoors. She said it was my kingdom, my world. And if she was doing something that she didnt particularly like, like sorting through pictures or doing work that was boring, she would just start humming or whistling and take herself to a place where birds sang and flowers blooms. It was a wonderful defense to have, i think. And photography, too. She did enjoy photography. And also the second question is about her children. She was a mom. There was no question that she was a present mom. Lyndon johnson was two or three months younger than i am, and shes a few years younger. She was always around and so were they. And then as she grew, they were very wonderful caretakers for her. We need to talk about at the outset she was a successful business women. She was the first selfmade millionaire among the first ladies. How did she become that. Well she inherited money and land from relatives and she bought a Radio Station in 1943. But i think the figure given is 17,500. And then she was very active in seeing that it was turned around from a moneylosing operation to a moneymaking operation. She went down and lived in austin for six months or so and mopped floors and windows. I couldnt get over this when i read it in her oral history. She starts running it. How do you do that . And she did it. She just went in and changed the building and changed the staff and she got the station up and cbs came in and the network. And it became this highly successful station that she was running. And johnson basically just said to her, go run that station. And off she went and did it. And she drove the distance between she drove back and forth constantly from washington, d. C. And i did that as a kid too, between new orleans and washington, it was no fun. There were no interstate highways. There was no airconditioning in the car. It took a long time. It was but it is fair to say to a successful business person but it didnt hurt to have a politician who became the majority leader of the senate as your spouse. Many people have charged, for example when it came time to apply for a tv station, the fact that her husband was a senator, other people just didnt apply for the license. But she kept a careful eye on the the reports she demanded when she was in washington. She demanded weekly reports and went over them with a fine tooth comb suggesting different sale pitches to sell air time and very active in who got hired. So she was managing a good station. And it was just the beginning. It became a communications empire. With tv. And also during this time period the first lady bought the acres in the texas hill country that was known as the johnson ranch. Well learn more about that in the next video. The living room is the oldest room in the house. Dating back to the 1890s. She would refer to this as the heart home. This home out here on the ranch. And we have a few things that speak to her connection to the room here. One of the things that she wanted to highlight was the native American Heritage here in the hill country and we do have a small collection of arrowheads over there. Mrs. Johnson had her daughters linda and lucy pay 1 for every arrowhead and it turns out linda was paying her school maids and then collecting a dollar from her mother. She had an eye for copper and collected various items and had gifts from various friends. One of the objects that always gathers visitors attention, the three Television Sets. The president loved to watch the news and at that time the three major networks, nbc, abc, and cbs would show the news at the same time and the president would turn down the volume on the Television Set he didnt want to watch. But mrs. Johnss Favorite Program was gun smoke and she altered her schedule to catch an episode of her favorite western. Shortly after Lyndon Johnson became president the ranch was dubbed the Texas White House and life at the ranch revolved around the home. And to show you the importance of the ranch and the home, the johnsons returned home 74 times during the five years as president. Mrs. Johnson as first lady loved to show off the Texas Country and her home. The guests to the ranch would gather here in the den and various heads of state came to visit. The president diaz of Mexico Mexico and israeli Prime Minister to name a few. And they would visit with the johnsons right here in the den. The dining room was a special place for Lady Bird Johnson. She picked out the wallpaper depicting a country scene similar to the hill country. A very similar to the things she would have seen out of her picture window installed at her request. Mrs. Johnson gave a tour of the house in 1968 that was filmed where she featured the china that you see here purchased in mexico. Very colorful. The president would sit down at this end of the table where you see the cowhide chair and typically mrs. Johnson at the other end of the table and one feature that you notice next to the president , a handy telephone. He loved working the telephone in the middle of a meal to make a call or answer call. Mrs. Johnson wasnt happy about that but she got used to that because Lyndon Johnson was such a workaholic. She spent a lot of time here at the ranch because it provides a respite from the turmoil of washington, later in the presidency where they could come home and recharge batteries and make that connection back to the land and this place this that he valued so much. How important was the rarvnc to them. Well she didnt like it at all. She said the house looked like a Charles Adams house. She was very annoyed when he bought it. But she got to love it. And as you heard called it her hearts home. In the first lady series that we refer to, the modern first lady, the biography of her by lou gould, he makes a point about the difference between the kennedys who were people of the east coast and people of the sea and the johnsons who were people of the land. Which started the wealth of conservation. Does that connection make sense. It makes a lot of sense. And that whole being from texas, that whole country and the whole thing was very different from the boston early part of the country, all of that. This is where the country grew up and became exciting and so youre on your own out there. And opposed to being in the ranch. But mrs. Johnson again was very interested about saying that [ inaudible ]. And of course that part of texas has a lot of people of german descent. And they were also around. And that was a great hour for them. It is a wonderful moment for those. Many studies have been made and books written about Lyndon Johnsons career and what a powerful majority leader he was and how happy he was. For example, what was the Vice President life for her. They were great for her but not for him. She traveled a lot. And i think she talked about arriving in senegal and feeling like she was put down in the middle of National Geographic so the travel was good. She thrived on being second lady, if that is what were going to call it. And as cokie pointed out, she filled in a lot for mrs. Johnson. But if he was unhappy and her role was really to keep him happy in his political career and the domestic life going, how did she help him through that. She tried. She was trying to get him to go to the gym because he put on a lot of weight. And she tried to get him to watch his diet and invited people he would like to see but they were not good years. I think everybody would agree did he not do well. The Vice President , that job is a little difficult. But for strong people. But she started the women lunches and she had them in places like senegal. And, again, people think this is something new under the sun, that just recent first lady have been interested in women and womens issues and promoting the role of women around the world. Mrs. Johnson is doing that back when she was second lady. And this 1960 campaign, this is the one where she came into her own and campaigned, understood what it was like to be on the National Stage in a way she hadnt in the past. I dont think anybody knows what it is like to be on the National Stage until theyre on it. That is always a shock. No matter how experienced you are as a candidate or as a candidates family. President and Vice President is a whole other thing. How popular the 1960 ticket in the Southern States in particular with the Roman Catholic on the ticket had a big selling job to do. The south was changing at that time. You could talk about how the johnsons approached the people that lived in the south during that campaign. Mainly by identifying with them. And mrs. Johnson was very key with that. She emphasized her alabama roots which is where her mother was from and spent time there with her cousins as a child. And she insisted on spending time in the house. And but she also, when she went home to texas, they did have this one awful incident where they were attacked and she was very rudely and dangerously treated. And there were a lot of political analysts that said that put texas [ inaudible ]. And were talking about all of that. The only time we could prove what the Vice President made a difference is the johnsons. And she held the teas across texas and insisted on shaking hands with all of the 400 or 500 women who showed up. And after texas did go for Kennedy Johnson in 60 and they said mrs. Johnson won texas. And during campaigning, the catholic issue, how did mrs. Johns reply to people. Im not sure she replied to that question. I dont think it was a question addressed to her. It was much more either it was directed to the men. Next call from john in charleston. Youre on. Caller good evening. How are you all. Were great. Thank you. Caller good. I appreciate cspan having this first lady series. One question i had was how a little bit of about it but how was mrs. Johnson treated on the lady bird express and the congressman rivers who was a powerful congressman in the state and he kind of went out on a limb to help her but i think she was treated bad here in charleston but overall how she was treated in the rest of the south and what was their relationship with the rivers and the johnsons . Thanks very much. A little bit later on well have a clip from the lady bird express but it fits nicely with the Campaign Style and the approach that were talking about. In 1964 we were in a whole different place. Because the president had signed the 1964 civil rights bill in the summertime and the south was up in arms. And mrs. Johnson absolutely insisted on taking the lady bird special through the south saying this is the part of the country th that im from. Im not going to write off the south. And so they all got organized. I found recently in my basement, since i grew up in the house i live in and i found in my mothers handwriting and she said she has various places that we cant find a local politician to show up. But the women who were wives of members and my father was something of an emcee on the train. But my mother told theififififi that they would have to go ahead because they were bombs along the way and threats all along the way. But not only was mrs. Johnson on that train but several johnson daughters. And that is a lot of courage. Well come back to that later on and have some reflections from linda, the daughter who was part of the campaign then. But i wanted to just ask this question when were talking about her approach to politics and her campaign from a facebook viewer. David welsh asked how was essentially asking whether or not she could have had a political career in her own right if she had been born later . That is an interesting question. I somehow dont see her as running for office. But she developed the tricks. For example, she started taking public speaking lessons in 1959. So that was a far cry from where she started out where the only thing she did was working in the back room with the letters and getting other women to do the speaking. Lyndons mother and his sister were the ones she turned to in the 40s. So maybe in another time she would have been. And also, what happened with my mother, her contemporary, was that my father was killed in a plane crash and my mother ran and that could have easily happened with mrs. Johnson. But i will say that what she said to my mother when momma called lady bird to say she was running mrs. Johnson said well that is wonderful, but how are you going to do it without a wife. How essential she was to Lyndon Johnsons approach and we have a clip next for you that is a pretty wellknown one. It is lady bird critique of an lbj speech. One that was right after a press conference and you could hear how very direct she is with the president in his approach and his presidency. You want to listen to that one minute to my critique. Yes, maam. [ inaudible ]. You look spledid. The close up were much better. They were more close up than they were distant. During the statement, you were a little breathless and it was too much looking down and i think it was a little too fast. Not enough change of pace. A drop in voice at the end of sentence. There was a considerable pickup in drama and interest when the questioning began. Your voice was noticeably better and your facial expressions were much better. I thought your answer was good. I thought your answer on vietnam was good. I really didnt like the answer on the doll because i think i heard you say, and i believe you actually have said out loud that you dont feel you ought to go out of the country this year. So i then dont think you could very well [ inaudible ]. What are we hearing there. Were hearing a very firm, a very educated evaluation of a speech. I think it is wonderful. He wanted her analysis. He relied on it. But as you listen to that tape all the way through, he started stacking the words and was getting defensive. Well they told me to do that. Because nobody really likes to hear but that is direct criticism. But he relies on her to tell him the truth. Well they were obviously very close and value the Political Partners but the flip side was there were challenges in their margin because of Lyndon Johnson infidelity. Something that he would occasionally brag about. How did this affect their partnership, if it did at all. Well people who knew them said she acted as though it didnt happen but she must have known it existed. And i think it is important to realize that journalists changed how they covered president s during the johnson years. She lived in washington all of those years and watched as Franklin Roosevelt relationship with lucy mercer and john f. Kennedy with other women and in the johnson years and encouraged by the president himself, president johnson himself, they did start writing about the women who were around him. I think Time Magazine in april of 1964, he been president only three or four months has an article about him da da da d per hour with a glass of beer on dashboard and a beautiful young reporter at his side cooing into his ear, mr. President your fun, i think is the headline. I dont think youll find any articles on previous president s. So i think it is important to remember that she came into the spotlight at a time when the spotlight had changed. There is one critique of the president johnson and this aspect of his source and his biography and he preyed on some of the women who worked with him and reporters and activists when his wife was not present. Can you talk about the reporting relationship and how that has changed . You said nothing is new under the sun and we have many examples of prior first lady who dealt with this but times had changed. She was not somebody who was aware of this in terms of mrs. Johnsons views and all of that. Nobody would talk about it, certainly not the moms. But i think that what happened in terms of reporting is that it is only grown. But part of that has to do with the increase in the numbers of women in the ranks of the reporters. Because there is a sense that it was political and i think when you saw that in 1984 with gary hart, i think that before that there was a sense of what happen on the bus or on the trailer whatever stays there. And that did change with the increasing number of women on the bus. Back to phone calls. Dave in albuquerque. Caller hi, how are you. What is your question. Caller one question that keeps occurring to me for both lady bird and all of the first ladies, how big of a staff do they tend to have in the east wing . Do they have their own speech writers, do they have they have the social secretary but how big of a staff is it generally that the first lady has at her disposal. Thank you for asking that. Because in many ways Lady Bird Johnson created the framework for the modern first lady. How did she do that. She hired. She went into office, she hired Liz Carpenter as press secretary and chief of staff. And bess able who was working for her as social secretary. And they really took over the east wing and then hired others obviously to help. But that was the first time that there had been a press secretary chief of staff. Who knew who they were doing. Yeah. And i tried to find out the number and i was told by her office that it is buried because not only did she hire a large competent staff herself, but brought in on loan people from other departments, for example for beautification. She brought in people from the secretary of interior so it was not on her budget. It is hard to come up with a number. It is somewhere in the 20s. And she had this coterie of women who worked with her on many things, particularly on head start for instance, when she got very engaged in creating head start. My mother was very engaged with her as were several other political wives. So she had a lot of other volunteers, very highlytrained and smart volunteers as well. How long was it before the office of first lady was established and how was it done. That is difficult to answer. Most people point to eisenhower as having the first secretary to make it into the officialin lessed in the blue back as the secretary to the first lady. But way back at the beginning it was mostly a relative or friends, the sisterinlaw who did the volunteer work. So it is very hard to document. The roosevelt women always had their social secretaries and they passed those on from one generation to the next but i think we could point to Lady Bird Johnson has having the first professional staff. Liz carpenter has been a reporter since 1942, that is when lady bird met her. Their friendship went way back. So she chose people. And they stayed with her the entire time in the white house. And after. And the other thing that i think is remarkable is mrs. Johnson became so much in demand on many of these issues, particularly on what they call beautification, environmental issues. People wanted her[f[f[f[f[f[f[f surrogates which is a funny notion because we think of the first lady as the surrogate to the president but she had a surrogate to the surrogates. Our next question. Caller im so pleased that youre doing this series. It is just wonderful, the first ladies are getting their due. I wanted to mention earlier in the program you asked if mrs. Johnson ever had former first ladies at the white house. But i know she had two at the ranch. Mrs. Carter and mrs. Ford. And i believe it was probably in the late 1980s. And also i wanted to mention that mrs. Johnsons centennial was last her birthday was last december 22nd, 2012. And in honor of that, the postseason issued a commemorative stamp. And mrs. Johnson was only the fifth first lady to have a stamp. The others were Martha Washington and Dolley Madison and Abigail Adams and mrs. Roosevelt. Our producer tells us you have a personal connection with the former first lady. Yes. I was her executive assistant from 1991 until her death. What is it that you would like people watching this program to know about mrs. Johnson . Caller oh, my. Well, first of all, cokie and betty are doing a terrific job. Thank you. She was very warm. She was unflappable. She had a delicious laugh. It was a hearty belly laugh. And she was just such a good role model for all of us who knew her and loved her. And when you work for mrs. Johnson, well for the president , too, although i didnt know the president , you became part of the family. So she was my friend and i loved her. But she loved me too. So had a privilege working for her and knowing her and her family. They have certainly followed in her footsteps and theyre all just terrific people. And anyway, it has been an honor. Thank you very much for your call and adding your personal reflections to the program. At mrs. Johnsons funeral, all of the staff, no matter how old they were and how far away they were, they came including secret service men who had retired long the before that and loved her so much they made the huge effort to get there. With all of those kind words, regina is asking on twitter, is there anything in her white house diary that would shock us even today . She wouldnt have put it in. Im sorry to say. She was careful about the words. Lets go next to marvin watching us in los angeles. Youre on the air. Caller thank you very much for the program. One thought first. I was able to be at the texas delegation at the Democratic Convention where it was jfk and lbj had a debate. It was very humorous and jfk said i think you such a great Senate Majority leader, you should stay there. My question, number one, is did Lady Bird Johnson want lbj to accept the vp nomination, and two, would lbj have been successful in his various jobs without the support of Lady Bird Johnson . Well i think we could start with the second one first. Everybody pretty much agrees that it would have been a different Lyndon Johnson without lady bird. I think he would say that. She was enormous part of the success. And then on the 1960s question, it seems fairly clear that she and a lot of other people did not want him to take the second spot on the ticket. They considered john kennedy a Junior Member of the senate. And he should wait his turn. But i think she came out and nobody could have campaigned harder than she did. Well, what happened was some had to be convinced and my family and my father said do you want Richard Nixon to win . Exactly. There you are. On beautification, conservation, her cause, how did she choose it . Well it was a heartfelt thing. But the first thing in the white house, the years that they had the rest of the kennedy term, she didnt choose a project. She didnt even change the curtains that needed changing because she said the next family might not like it and she acted as though that would be the last year in the white house. But then afterxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx advice on what she should do and the word came back that she, like other first ladies should do something about washington. An that is the beautification of washington that came out of that. But very quickly, i think it became clear that her committee and her beautification had split and wanted to go more national and that is the emphasis on National Park and highway beautification and mary lassar who was a very important part of the movement thought she should do something saying the highways with terrible. I think she was tying the new jersey turnpike and all of the signs. This could be better. So it is good to think of her beautification project as being national and that is highway beautification, getting the junkyards removed or covered up with fences. And then the washington part. And even the washington part split into two. One group wanted to plant tulips, the dog dogwood and others wanted to polish the statues and the others who wanted to go into the poor neighbors where sports fields and recreation was not there and do something for those neighborhoods. And the important thing is that she incorporated them all. She tried to do it all. But what she also did is she personally lobbied the United States congress. And there was no hiding behind the man. And she did not pretend she was not doing it. She was up there lobbying. And it is tough. In the beautification, the billboard lobby was against any of this. The people, of course, as always are in these situations, people were pushing harder saying she wasnt doing enough. Needed to be much bigger emphasis on cleaning everything up. And she hung in there and kept it up. Not to reauthorize, she kept it up. And she is a powerful force. And the first time first lady have always lobbies from Martha Washington on. But that is the first time there was such public lobbying. We promised to show you the lady bird special train for and that is time to show it because it demonstrates her political skills that she put to her environmental issues. Lets watch that now. The south and the whole nation at this election are at a cross roads between past and future. We face many problems together. Is one and Economic Prosperity is another. We have reached good and Workable Solutions in the past through this partnership. And it takes men in washington who care about the people of the south and it takes citizens here at home with a vision of the future. Today, many parts of the south present one of the nations proudest pictures of progress. A democratic century means well face new challenges together with imagine and and fall on the path but do not turn back. Mother didnt want the south to think that we didnt want their vote. It is just because we knew there were a lot of people who didnt like the civil rights bill, for instance. She hoped to appeal to them to recognize that was a time that was coming and change had to be made and were moving forward and they were also a lot of africanamerican citizens who were there and we wanted to reaur reassure them. Now, we ran into some people that didnt like us and that were very vocal. We heard that there were threats, they were going to blow the train up. So they ran a car through before ours, to think if it was on the tracks it would blow up the side car. And not get us. But then there was threats all along the way. But it was a wonderful success. And mother would stand on the back of the train like she had seen harry truman do and she would tell him how proud and happy she was to be here and hoped they would vote for her husband. And cokied that is very hard. But she did. People dont realize, this beautiful city we live in is much, much more beautiful because of her and mary lasker, her friends who was a wonderful philanthropist. But this is profusion of flowers and trees and the fact that you just greeted by just total beauty as a result of her having been there. And this was a compliment to Lyndon Johnsons Great Society program or through an independent campaign. It was a little bit of both. We certainly associated it with something that we required almost of every first lady since her. What will be your project. I think Michelle Obama was asked that before the nomination. So it was a compliment to the Great Society and uniquely hers. But the first ladies that succeeded her, both Michelle Obama and laura bush, have quoted her, that she said i realize and i think that is part of what they are saying, it took her a while and had to have the big landslide, she was no longer the heir to the job. But she said i realized i had a pulpit and i could use it and use it to do go g and she determined that she was going to do that and they have taken those words and followed them very consciously quoting her. Rose lynn carter also made a point. And remember she continued that work after the beautification, if we want to use that terrible term which she hated. But she continued after she left the white house. I think until 1990 which is 22 years after leaving the white house, she continued to give that highway beautification award out of her own pocket to highway workers in texas who had done most to beautify the highways of texas. So im always interested in which first ladies continue their project afterwards and which ones forget they ever did that. Here are some of the key accomplishments and challenges from the administration including the process of a major Education Bill and the extension of public broadcasting and the establishment of medicare and medicaid and the signing of the Civil Rights Act which had been krend administration legislation and the Warren Commission report with the findings on the excuse me the kennedy assassination. The establishment of the outer space treaty which people say today still is the framework for how the International Community treats outer space. And of course the vietnam war. And the Voting Rights act of 1965 which i think is probably the most important civil rights legislation. Because it made it clear that people could get the vote and then work to get themselves in a better situation. But the civil rights bill of 1963, youre quite correct, is that it started under president kennedy but i dont think there is any way on earth president kennedy could have gotten that bill through congress and i think it took Lyndon Johnson and his great skills as a former majority leader and a incredible armtwitter to get that bill through. And each of the programs weve talked about how the first lady, the first couple had used the white house as a base for their lobbying, as it were. Their relationships in washington. How did the johnsons use the white house. Very differently than the kennedys. There was a month of mourning, of course, after the assassination so there was no entertaining. But by early january of 1964 they were having the two or three evenings a week getting congressman and their spouses in there in small groups. They could have done it in one big reception and gotten some footage. But they did it a dozen other times and got much more closer to the congressman. And i was struck by the fact that she used the white house, many of the congressman wives had never been upstairs and the kennedys didnt open the second floor buzz she had them and the women reporters up there. I think she had only lived in the white house about a month and she had women reporters going through the family bathrooms and looking at the living quarters. It was completely different from Jacqueline Kennedys attitude that the upstairs was off limits. People, when they feel that their in the inner sanctum and gotten something special, theyre likely to be nicer to you. I think i read that women reporters were coming into their own during this time period and mrs. Johnson by having lots of news to cover helped them with their careers. Yes. Im sure they appreciated her being so open. I was struck by the fact that when she had the women reporters through the upstairs quarters, she said i felt good about it because ive been open about my life and i think that is why i am pleased to share most aspects of that with the reporters. But she said one thing shed do next time is put away books she was reading. Because i think a week later an article appeared which may have been a coincidence listing the books that mrs. Johnson liked. So even she would have put the bible out there. Mrs. Johnson fired mrs. Kennedys french chef but continued the restoration of the white house. She insisted that all of the positions be American Made which is the different from Jacqueline Kennedys approach. We saw her say we want the finest things. Jacqueline kennedy told her to get white house kline machinn france and she did not and she got it in the u. S. With a wildflower scene. So she was her own women. And they had the First White House wedding in years. The first was lucys wedding. So they had both of their daughters mary while they were in the white house. And of course that was a very thing to have. By this time we were getting into the vietnam war and into the real nastiness. And to have the wedding was a really nice moment of just sitting back and saying this is a family. Who did the daughters mary. Well lucy married in august of 66. She married pat nugent in a catholic ceremony, not in the white house. So it is the First White House wedding of the president s daughter since i believe wilsons daughter in 1914. And she married, he was amill aid, charles schwab. And what was mrs. Johnsons role and was she very much involved in the planning of all of these things. Oh, yes. I mean, everything became political. Whether or not there was a union label in lucys gown, her diary has a lot about what an ordeal that was for her. I think they have to make two dresses. Yes. Is that right . And the day after lucys wedding, she fled to the virginia farm where she sometimes went when she didnt want to see anybody. And after lindas wedding, the president fled. So i think they both found it stressful. Barbara is watching in san francisco. Youre on. Yes. Good evening. I want to say i love your program. The question that i have is what are lucy and linda doing now and how many children do they have each . Thank you very much. Well linda is here in virgin suburbs of washington. Her husband chuck rob was governor of virginia and the senator from virginia and linda has been very, very active in all kinds of causes where she has been very effective and she was the first lady of virginia. And has been a political wife herself in those ropes. Lucy was married to patrick nugent, they divorced. I think she had four children and now is married to fran terpine, her christmas cards have a million kids and linda now has three children. And ian terpine part of the business in texas. Gary robinson, i think you alluded to this, what was lady birds most challenging time in the white house. Was it the vietnam years . I think so. I think the vietnam years were hard on everybody. They were hard on the whole country. We also were going through this huge generational fight and i think that having people outside the white house screaming, hey, hey, lbj, how many kids did you kill today, ycan you imagine . And this is somebody you know wants to do the right thing by she kept going out and giving speeches in spite of those remember the williams she said i dont want to shut myself off, which would have been easy to do. In 1999, Lady Bird Johnson gave an interview to cspan and she spoke about vietnam. Where is vietnam going to fit in . Along the way, couldnt say when did you see him at his lowest . During those days. I think when the bags began to come home. They would come in at night on a Freight Train and i dont know if this was good planning or just happenstance, but several times i would be on my way back from a trip in new york or somewhere, and at the station as i would get there, there were Freight Trains and bags being unloaded and put on to i dont know what kind of vehicle. And that, i knew what he was doing. And i knew i couldnt help him. Did you try to help in any way . Yes, yes, of course. What would you do . I would say do best you can. A lot of people dont understand it. And there really isnt much you can do in a situation like that. As the public sentiment of against the war mounted, can you walk us through the president s ultimate decision not to seek reelection and what lady birds role was . Well, she says and i think there is other evidence to support this, she she wrote in her diary in 1964, i know when the time to leave will be, and it is exactly and she picked march of 1968. I dont she was such an authentic person, i dont think she dreamed that up later. As 1967 wound on, there was a big meeting in september of 67 at the ranch. She talked about being called in with the top advisers and she says, i dont want another campaign. I dont want to ask people one more time to help out. But it was hard for Lyndon Johnson to walk away from the presidency, i think. And i believe there was a sentence written that he would include in his state of the union and then he would say he forgot it or couldnt find it in his pocket or something, but i think she very much wanted him not to run in march of 68 and he, of course, found it difficult. She was worried about his health and what we havent talked about is his heart attack in 1955. Right. Which was really a massive heart attack and he was he was quite affected by it and so i think that was something that they always had hovering over them, and had been very protective of his health and his diet, the best she could be. And so it was it was something that was always on her mind and he did die in january of 1972. Had four years after the white house 73. 73, right. I think he lived four days beyond the what would have been another a second term. He had a serious he couldnt have been president. He had serious heart condition. Another heart attack. And the National Tumult continued after that announcement was made, with Martin Luther king assassination and Robert Kennedy assassination. How did the johnsons hold this all together, knowing they would be leaving . Well, it was a terrible time. 1968 was just a year that here we are in the week of the 50th anniversary of the 1963 assassination and that was the beginning. Of americas loss of innocence in a way. We had no notion that what was going to happen after that happened. And trying to keep the country together and keep it in some sense of not falling into despair, but something that all the political leaders had to do and the president tried, but it was very hard for him, because he was seen as the symbol of the problem by so many of the people. As i said, Lyndon Johnson lived just four years after he left office in 1969, lady bird living 38 moreeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoed to the lbj library to learn more about how they worked there and prepared the library for the recording of the Johnson Administrations history. Were in a private office of mrs. Lyndon johnson at the lbj library. I was her social secretary from 1976 to 1990. A typical day would begin with her coming in, in the morning, probably around 9 00, and she would come in, toting a straw bag in each hand filled with some of these things you see on her desk that she had taken home for signing or speech writing or event planning, whatever she was working on. She would say when she came into the office, she felt like a little she had a straw satchel in each hand like saddle bags and she would come in and get to work. Her desk was always very orderly. She had her calendar she worked in her day book, and she kept files on her desk, while she was work on, she was taking she was on the board of one of the banks and she would keep a large envelope on her with the title or dates on them so she could close everything back in them. If she worked on her desk, with letters she was processing or i think she completed things she would put them on the floor. She sat in the office most of the day, making phone calls or working on projects that she loved so much. She loved this office, with how she could look out at her alma mater and then a quarter through to the castle in the city, she loved so much. She would stay here all day and that was pretty much monday through friday. And when we were having guests at the ranch, she would sometimes go out a few days early and stay in the different guest rooms to check on the water and the lights, the electricity, make sure everything was working and the tvs in the different rooms an we would make a stop on the way out to the ranch, to the store, to pick up magazines that were guest specific of whoever was coming for the weekend. Very thoughtful, very meticulous and very gracious. We had three office staff at the time. We had a person who handled her calendar. We had a person who came from the white house as a press secretary who helped her work on speeches, and then i was in the office. So that chair was usually occupied by one of us a good part of the day. As we rotated in any projects she was working on. By friday afternoon, she was ready to leave and go to the ranch, what she called home and about 3 30 in the afternoon, would say, anything else to do . And if the answer was no, she would say tell the secret service im ready to go and she would get up and we would pack those bags up and she would take off and head out to the ranch for the weekend. I like the way she entertained. Thats one reason we did so well together. I really loved her sense of making people feel at home, she was so, so good at it. So thoughtful, that the for you, and when i got married, they were in the white house when i got married and she sent out to the house a beautiful a picture, a print of tcap toll scene from the white house in the 19th century and so perfect. Their view of the town. And so we learned from you and from the tape that she continued to be a very active first lady, first lady and into her very late years. Into the 1990s, i think the Macular Degeneration in the 90s, stopped reading and thats when she really stopped giving speeches i was told because she couldnt see the notes well enough. Certainly until the 90s very active. We were talking how after the stroke she continued to see people just going out and even though she couldnt voice her reaction, she laughed and made people feel she really appreciated them. She was very active and very interested in the work and proud of the work of the library. I was there at least three times in the in this century, the 21st century. She was always there. She building of the library. She looked into the smallest detail, how they would attach certain things to the wall, had herself raised in a crane so she could see what the view would be from her office, which is on the top floor. She traveled to the fdrmdm and thought the hometown might not be the best place. She wanted it at the university. Karen in cleveland, hi, karen. Good evening. I had two questions. One was i was wondering how mrs. Johnson thought about her daughter lucy getting married at such a young age. And the second question about her involvement in the work and the Johnson School of government, the university of texas, after her husbands death. Thank you. She was very interested in that work. Thats a great place. It is a wonderful school. Once she made up her mind, her parents embraced it and embraced her husband. In her post white house years, her work for conservation and beautification was recognized with the president ial medal of freedom in 1977 and the congressional gold medal in 1988. Also the National Wildflower center was created as a result of her work. Where is that located . In austin, when she first started, it was called the National Wildflower center. It was on her 70th birthday. And it since moved but is still in austin and it is quite an operation. Answering questions from all over the world about what species will grow wear and joining peoples model gardens. She continued to visit that up until she was in a wheelchair with an oxygen tank, i think. She knew the women who worked there, she continued to be active in that. Our time comes to an end. Were going to return to the ranch in texas one last time. This is mrs. Johnsons private bedroom, it was part of the 1967 remodeling. She specified to the design scherz waers she wanted this to be her forever home. She wanted a fireplace, east facing windows and a large book case to display so many mementos and keepsakes she gathered through the years, the birds, the china, and also cameras. Lyndon johnson gave mrs. Johnson a camera for her wedding gift and she became quite really photojournalist. 8 millimeter camera to capture home movies, hours and hours of home movies as well as a recorder here where mrs. Johnson every night at the white house would record her daily observation observations this became the basis for the book, white house diary, insightful chronicling of those years of the 1960s. Mrs. Johnson, her later years, mrs. Johnson loved to sit here at this desk to keep up with her correspondence and all of her activities, very active former first lady. Also in this space, we have mrs. Johnsons closet with all of the clothing, her formal wear, the ranch clothing with the boots and the hats, and a lot of her colorful outfits and her shoes, one of my favorites, the straw hat with the blue bonnet painted on top. And then her all of the photographs of those who mattered so much to her. And to her Lady Bird Johnson had a great sense of history. And in fact during her years in washington, she often would be a tour guide for texans who went to the nations capital. I had the fortune to meet her while working at harry s. Truman i hhistoric site and i was impressed she wanted to see how to truman story was being interpreted knowing one day her story would be told here at the lbj ranch. After the death,. So she died at and the secret servicemen and we saw them come in, it was quite something. I think also the point we just heard, about her sense of history, is something that really we can enjoy so much and betty made the point several times, all of this is available to us, all we have to do is go to our computers and mrs. Johnson made it possible for us to see the home movies, and most important for my perspective, hear those johnson tapes. She allowed those tapes to be open to the public, without knowing what was on them. Which is very gutsy and we had learned enormous amount about american politics and American History from listening to those tapes. And where is she and the president buried. Just down the road from the ranch house. In the Family Cemetery. So not at the library that they chose to be out in the country side, the country they loved. Right. There is a picture of the Family Cemetery where the siblings, mother and father are very you can walk from the ranch to the cemetery to the birth place, to the school, and in ten minutes, i dont know, very short time. As we close here, the question for both of you is what should her legacy be seen as among first ladies . I think she was an outstanding first lady who really wrote the book for modern first ladies, what they needed to do to be noncontroversial and yet contribute to a spouses legacy. And it is for a man too. She understood she had a megaphone and she could use it for good and she did that and all of her successes. Our thanks to the colleagues at the White House Historical association. Thank you for being with us once again tonight. If you enjoyed watching first ladies, pick up a copy of the book first ladies influence and image, featuring profiles of the nations first ladies. Through interviews with top i had historians. Tonight, on American History tv, beginning at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, a look at the lives of betty ford and rosalynn carter. Cspan, in cooperation with the White House Historical association, produced a series on the first ladies, examining their private lives and the public roles they played. First ladies, influence and image, features individual biographies of the women who served in the role of first lady over four administrations. Watch American History tv tonight and over the weekend on cspan3