Independent president ial candidate ross perot. Ing good evening from atlanta and welcome to the Vice President ial debates sponsored by the nonpartisan commission on president ial debates. Its being held here in the theater for the arts on the campus of georgia tech. Im hal bruno from abc news and id moderate tonights keebt. The participants are republican Vice President dan quayle. [ applause ] democratic senator al gore. [ applause ] and retired vise admiral james stockdale, the Vice President ial nominee for independent candidate ross perot. Now, the ground rules for tonights debate. Each candidate will have two minutes for an opening statement. I will then present the issues to be discussed for each topic the candidates will have 1 15 to respond. This will be followed by a 5 00 discussion period in which they can ask questions of each other if they so choose. The order of response has been determined by a drawing and well rotate with each topic. End. Debate each candidate will have 2 00 for a closing statement. Our radio and tv audience should know that the candidates were given equal allocation of auditorium seats for supporters. Id like to ask the audience here in the theater to, please, refrain from applause or any partisan demonstration once the debate is under way, because it takes time away from the candidates. So with that plea from your moderators, lets get started turning first to senator gore for his opening statement. Good evening. Its great to be here in atlanta for this debate, where america will be showcased to the world when the 196 olympics are put on right here. Its appropriate, because in a real sense our discussion this evening will be about what kind of nation we want to be four years from now. Its also a pleasure to be with my two opponents this evening. Admiral stockdale, may i say a special honor to share this stage with you. Those of us who served in vietnam looked at you as a national hero, even before you were awarded the congressional medal of honor, and mr. Vice president , dan, if i may, it was 16 years ago that you and i went to the congress on the very first day together. Ill make awe deal this evening. If you dont try to compare george bush to harry truman, i wont compare you to jack kennedy. Remember the last time someone compared themselves to jack kennedy . Do you remember what they said . Harry truman, its worth remembering. Assumed the presidency when Franklin Roosevelt died here in georgia. Only one of many occasions when fate thrust a Vice President into the oval office in a time of crisis. Its something to think about during the debate this evening. But our real discussion is going to be about change. Bill clinton and i stand for change, because we dont believe our nation can stand four more years of what weve had under george bush and dan quayle. When the recession came they were like a deer watt caught in the headlights, paralyzed into inaction. Blinded to the suffering and pain of bankruptcies and people who were unemployed. We have an environmental crisis, a Health Insurance crisis, substandard education. It is time for a change. Bill clinton and i want to get our country moving forward again, put our people back to work and create a Bright Future for the United States of america. Okay. The next statement will be from Vice President quayle. Well, thank you, senator gore, for reminding me about my performance in the 1988 Vice President ial debate. This is 1992. Bill clinton is running against president george bush. There are two things that im going to stress during this debate. One, bill clintons economic plan and his agenda will make matters much, much worse. He will raise your taxes. He will increase spending. He will make government bigger, jobs will be lost. Second bill clinton does not have the strength nor the character to be president of the United States. Let us let us look at the agendas. President bush wants to hold the line on taxes. Bill clinton wants to raise taxes. President bush is for a balanced budget amendment. Bill clinton opposed. We want to reform the legal system its too costly, bill clinton wants status quo. Reform health care, bill clinton wants to ration health care. Bill clinton wants to empower government we want to empower people. Bill clinton says america is the mockery of the world. He is wrong. At some time during these next four years, there is going to be a crisis. There will be an international crisis. I cant tell you where its going to be. I cant even tell you the circumstanc circumstances, but it will nee experience, tested and qualifications to handle the crisis. The president has been tested. The president has the integrity and the character. The joyce is yours. You need to have a president you can trust. Can you really trust bill clinton . Admiral stockdale, your overing statement, please, sir. Who am i . Why am i here . [ applause ] im not a politician. Everybody knows that. So dont expect here to use the language of the washington insider. 37 years in the navy, om one up there in washington, and now im an academic. The centerpiece of my life was the vietnam war. I was there the day it started. I led the first bombing raid against north vietnam. I was there the day it ended, and i was theres for everything in between. Ten years in vietnam, aerial combat, and tortured i know things about the vietnam war better than anybody in the world. I know some things about the vietnam world better than anybody in the world, and i know how governments, how how american governments, can be courageous and how they can be cowl, and thats important. Thats one thing im an insider on. I was the leader of the underground of the american pilots who were shot down and imprisoned in north vietnam. You should know that the american character displayed in those dungeons by those fine men was the thing of beauty. I look back on those years as the beginning of wisdom. Learning everything a man can learn about the vulnerabilities and the strengths that are ours as americans. Why am i here tonight . I am here because i have in my brain and in my heart what it takes to lead america through tough times. Thank you, admiral. I thought since youre running for Vice President that we ought to start off by talking about the vice presidency itself. The Vice President presides over the senate. He casts the deciding vote in case of a tie. But his role really depends on the assignments that are given to him by the president. However if a president should die in office or is unable to serve for any other reason, the Vice President automatically becomes president , and that has happened five times in this century. So the proposition i put on the table for you to discuss is this what role would each of you like to play as Vice President . What areas interest you . And what are your qualifications to serve as president if necessary . In the case of Vice President quayle, who were starting with, i suppose you tell us the role that you did play in the first term and what youd like to do in the second term. Go ahead, sir. Then i wont give you that answer. Qualifications. Ive been there. How . Ive done the job. Been tested, been Vice President four years. Senator quayle referred to us being elected to congress in 1976. Done the job, done many things for the president. But even as Vice President you never know exactly what your role is going to be from time to time and let me give you an example of where i was tested under fire, and be in a crisis. President bush was flying to malta in 1989 to meet with president gorbachev. The first meeting between president bush and president gorbachev. That he had known each other before. Coup broke out in the philippines. I had to assemble the president s add viders, made the recommendation to the president. The president made the decision, the coup suppressed, democracy continued in the philippines, the situation was ended. I have been there and ill tell you one other thing that qualifying you for being president. And its this, hal. You got to stand up for what you believe in. And nobody has ever criticized me for not having strong beliefs. [ applause ] admiral stockdale . My association with mr. Perot is a very personal one. And as i have stood in and finally taken his running mate position, he has granted me total autonomy. I dont take advantage of it, but i am sure that he would make me a partner in decisions, in making decisions about the way to handle health care, the way to get this economy back on its feet again, in every way. I i have not had the experience of these gentlemen, but to be anymore specific, but i i know i have his trust, and i intend to act in a way to keep that situation alive. Thank you. Senator gore . Bill clinton understand the meaning of the words teamwork and partnership. If were success until our efforts to gain your trust and lead this nation, we will Work Together to put our country back on the right track again. The experience that george bush and dan quayle have been talking about includes the worst Economic Performance since the Great Depression. Unemployment is up, personal income is down. Bankruptcies you up. Housing starts are down. How long can we continue with trickledown economics when the record of failure is so abundantly clear . Discussions of the vice presidency tend sometimes to focus on the crisis during which a Vice President is thrust into the oval office, and indeed onethird of the vicepresident s who have served have been moved into the white house, but the teamwork and partnership beforehand and hopefully that situation never happens, how you Work Together is critically important. The way weve worked together on this campaign is one sample. Now, id like to say in response to Vice President quayle, he talked about multa and the philippines. George bush concentrated on every other country in the world. When are you guys going to start worrying about our people here in the United States of america and get our country moving again . [ applause ] again, i will ask the audience, please, do not applause. It takes time from the candidates. All right. Now we have five minutes for discussion. Go ahead, Vice President quayle. The answer is simple. We are not going to raise taxes to create new jobs. We have a plan to create new jobs but that wasnt the question. The question dealt with qualifications. Teamwork and Partnership May be fine in the congress, senator gore, thats what congress is all about. Compromise, teamwork, working things out, but when youre president of the United States, or when youre Vice President and you have to fill in like i did nice of the crisis in the philippines youve got to make a decision, make up your mind. Bill clinton running for president of the United States said this about the persian gulf war. He said had i been in the senate, i would have voted with majority. It was a close vote. But i agreed with the arguments of the minority. You cant have it both ways. You have to make a decision. You cannot sit there in an International Crises and sit there and say, well, on one hand if this is okay, on the other hand, this is okay. Youve got to make the decision. President bush has made the decisions. Hes been tested, hes got the experience, the qualifications and integrity to be our president the next four years. Admiral stockdale your turn next and then senator gore his chance to return. Okay. I thought this was just a session open, this fiveminute thing and i didnt have anything to add to his im jump in if i thought anyone could jump in whenever they wanted to. Whatever pleases you, fine with me. But i want admiral stockdales time. This is not the senate where you can tradeoff when you guys are going to start worrying about this country but i want to elaborate on it. Why doesnt the Democratic Congress pass . Concentrating on every other country in the world as opposed to the people in our country right here at home. When george bush took former secretary of state baker out of the state department and put him in charge of the campaign and made him chief of staff in the white house, mr. Baker, who is quite a capable man, said that for these last four years, george bush was working on the problems of the rest of the world and in the next four years, he would target america. I want you to know we really appreciate that. But bill clinton and i will target america from day one. We wont wait four years. Its really amazing what george bush can do when he concentrates. Well, its time that we had a president like bill clinton, who can concentrate and will concentrate and work on the problems of real people in this country. You know, our country is in trouble. We simply cannot continue with this philosophy of giving huge tax cuts to the very wealthy, raising taxes on middle income families, the way bush and quayle have done, and then waiting for it to work. How much longer will it take, dan, for trickledown economics to work in your theory . Were going to have plenty of time to talk about trickledown government, what youre for. I would like you to answer the question. What you have failed to address is why is bill clinton qualified to be president of the United States . I would be happy to answer that. You talk about jim bakker, trickle down economics, worst economy in the question was i would be happy to. I want to go back and make a point. Answer your question. I have a question. I will answer yours. I have not asked a question. I made a statement that you have not told us why bill clinton is qualified to be president of the United States. I pointed out what he said about the persian gulf war. Here is what he said, senator. Can i answer your question . Im making a statement. Can we give admiral stockdale to come in here . Here is what he said. This is the persian gulf war. The most important event in his political lifetime. Here is what bill clinton says. If it was a close vote, i would vote with the majority. Lets give admiral stockdale a chance to come in. That qualifies you for becoming president of the United States . I hope america is listening closely for the debate. And america is seeing right now why this nation is in gridlock. The trickle downs, stocks and spends, whatever you want to call them, we cant get this economy going. Over here weve got dan, whose president will take eight years to balance the budget and on my left the senator whose boss will get it halfway balanced in four years. Ross perot has a plan to balance the budget five years in length from start to finish. And were people of the nonprofessional category who are just sick of this terrible thing thats happened to the country. And weve got a man who knows how to fix it, and im working for him. I was a little bit worried that there might not be a freeflowing discussion tonight. Lets move on to the economy. Specifically, the economy was talked about at great length in the president ial debate. Lets talk about a very particular aspect of the economy, getting people back to work. The great fear is losing his or her job and Many Americans have lost jobs in this recession, loss of benefits, loss of a home, destruction of the family security. Specifically, how would your administration go about getting people back to work, and how long is it going to take . We start with admiral stockdale. The lifeblood of our economy is investment. And right now when we pay 350 we borrow 350 billion a year, it saps the money markets and the private investors are not getting their share. What we do is work on that budget by an aggressive program, not a painful program so that we can start borrowing less money and getting more investment money on the street through entrepreneurs who can build factories, who will hire people, and maybe well start manufacturing goods here in this country again. Thats my answer. Okay, senator gore . Bill clintons top priority is putting america back to work. Bill clinton and i will create good highways and jobs for our people the same way he has done in his state. Highwage manufacturing jobs at ten times the national average. In fact, according to the statistics coming from the bush quayle labor department, for the last two years in a row, bill clintons state has been number one among all 50 in the creation of jobs in the private sector. By contrast, in the nation as a whole during the last four years, it is the First Time Since the presidency of Herbert Hoover that we have gone for a fouryear period with fewer jobs at the end of that fouryear period than we had at the beginning. And look at manufacturing. We have lost 1. 4 million jobs in manufacturing under george bush and dan quayle. They have even, we learned two weeks ago, taken our tax dollars and subsidized the moving of u. S. Factories to Foreign Countries. Now dont deny it. Because 60 minutes, nightline, and the nations newspapers have investigated it. When are you going to stop using our tax dollars to shut down factories and move them to Foreign Countries and throw americans out of work . Dont always believe what you see on television, senator. Let me tell you. The media have been wrong before. We have never subsidized any country or any company to move from the United States to latin america. You know full well the caribbeanbased initiative. You supported that. Nope. That is a program there. I voted against it. You voted for it. No. Okay. Well, well have a lot of interesting debate after this debate. Our people will be glad to furnish the press if theyre arrested on senator gores voting record on the caribbean initiative. You talk about trickledown economics, the worst economy since hoover. It is a bad economy. Its a tough economy. The question is, who are you its not who are you going to blame, what are you going to do about it . Your proposal is to raise 150 billion in taxes, raise 220 billion in new spending. How is raising taxes going to help Small Businesses . How is raising taxes going to help the farmer . How is raising taxes going to help the consumer of america . I submit to you raising taxes will make matters much, much worse. Admiral, we now throw it open for discussion. Admiral stockdale its your turn to start the discussion. Well, weve got to re weve got to clean out the banner, if i may quote my boss and start getting this investment money on the street so we can get and encourage entrepreneurs to build factor s factories. The program is out there. Its a puttogether thing that requires some sacrifice but not excessive. And we are willing to move forward on a fiveyear clip to put us back to where we can start over and get this nation straightened out. Senator gore, getting people back to work. The difference between the Perot Stockdale plan and the clinton gore plan is ross perots plan is almost exclusive on balancing the budget and reducing the budget deficit, and the danger is, if that is the only goal, it could throw our nation back into an even worse recession. Bill clinton and i have a detailed fiveyear budget plan to create good jobs, cut the budget deficit in half and eliminate the investment deficit in order to get our economy moving forward again. We have a 20 billion Infrastructure Fund to create a nationwide network of highspeed rail, for example, and what are called information super highways, to open up a whole universe of knowledge for our young people, and to help our universities and companies that rely on new advances in the information revolution. We also have tax incentives for investment in job creating activities, not the kind of encouragement for shortterm ripoffs like the proposals that we have had from george bush, but i want to return and say one more time, you have used our tax dollars to subsidize the recruitment of u. S. Companies to move overseas and throw americans out of work. In tennessee, not very far from my home, a factory was shut down right there when they were solicited by officials paid with u. S. Taxpayers money. And then the replacement workers in a foreign country were trained with our tax dollars, and then their imports were subsidized coming back into the United States. When are you going to stop that program . We are not we do not have we do not have any policeman that encourages companies to close down here and to go and invest in foreign soil. That is absolutely outrageous. Of course, american businesses do have business abroad. Weve got global competition. Weve got we want businesses to expand. Do you realize this, senator, that every job thats overseas, there are three jobs back here to support that . Never have we ever, nor would we, support the idea of someone closing down a factory here and moving overseas. Thats totally ridiculous. Its going on right now. It happened in tennessee, when george bush went to nashville, the employees who lost their jobs asked to meet with them. Ied with them. Let me tell you what theyre feeling. Some of them are in their 50s and 60s. They want to know where theyre going to get new jobs when their job jobs have been destroyed. And there are 1. 4 Million Manufacturing jobs that have been lost because of the policies of you and george bush. Are we going to do you seriously believe we are going to continue the same policies that have created the worst economy since the Great Depression . I hope when you talk to those people, you said the first thing bill clinton and i are going to do is raise 150 billion in new taxes. You got that wrong, too. Thats part of your plan. No, its not. 150 billion in new taxes. Disavow your plan. Youre pulling a clinton. Do you know what a clinton is . Do you know what a clinton is . A clinton is he says one thing one day, and another thing the next day. You try to have both sides of the issue. The fact of the matter is that you are proposing 150 billion in new taxes. No. And i hope you talk to these people in tennessee we are not. You can say it all you want. I am sure what you didnt talk to them about is how were going to reform the Health Care System, like the president wants to do. He wants to reform the Health Care System so every american will available to them affordable Health Insurance. One other thing you didnt talk to them about, senator, is legal reform. Your position on legal reform is status quo. You talk about foreign competition. Why should an American Company have to spend 50 to 20 times on liabilitity cost compared to a company in japan or somewhere else . Thats not right. We have reform legislation on capital hill that will create jobs and the Democratic Congress wont pass it. Maybe its time to move on to our next topic. All three of you gentlemen have some expertise in defense and the armed services. Vice president quayle and senator gore both served on the Senate Armed Services committee. Admiral stockdale, of course, has a very distinguished military career. With the end of the cold war, everyone agrees there will be major cuts, theyve already started, in the Defense Budget. This country has a long history of neglecting its military needs in peace time and then paying for it with heavy casualties when were unprepared. How much of a defense cut is unsafe . What happens to the people who are forced to leave the military services or if they lose their jobs because theyre working in Defense Industries . I think we start with senator gore this time. Bill clinton and i support a Strong National defense. He and i have both fought for a change within the Democratic Party as well as within the country. In the aftermath of the cold war, the definition of Strong National defense has obviously changed somewhat. For example, george bush wants to maintain at least 150,000 american soldiers in europe even though world war ii ended 50 years ago. Bill clinton and i agree with so many military experts who believe that it is time for the europeans who are so much wealthier now and more powerful than they were at the end of world war ii to start picking up a little bit more of that tab themselves and not rely so exclusively on the United States taxpayers for the defense of europe. We believe that we can make savings in our Defense Budget and, at the same time, improve our national security. Now, for those who are affected by the cutbacks, whether they come from george bush or bill clinton and me, the defense is bill clinton and i have a defense Conversion Program so that those who won the cold war will not be left out in the cold. We want to put them to work, building an infrastructure and an economy here in this country for the 90s and the next century. Vice president quayle . We won the cold war because we invested in national security. We won the cold war because we invested in our military. We didnt win the cold we won the cold war because america had the political will and made the right decisions. Yes, we can make cuts in defense, and we have. Bill clinton wants to cut defense in another 60 billion. The defense workers in california and elsewhere, 60 billion defense cut is going to cut a lot of jobs out. Y yes, we are making a conversion. We can go to a civil space rather than having the defense industry. Let me say this. We would not have won the cold war if we had listened to senator gore and his crowd and supported a nuclear freeze. If you would have supported that attitude, if you would have supported that attitude, we would not have won the cold war. We won the cold war because we invested and we went forward. [ applause ] admiral stockdale, please. Yes, thank you. The numbers, in terms of the dollar cuts as they stand on our plans now show us almost the same as the Vice President s, but we note that mr. Governor clintons plan is almost twice as much a cut as either one of us. Ive been through the end of world war ii and the surprise beginning of korea to see how we it cost us more money because we overcut the Defense Budget in the first place. [ applause ] i dont say that so i think that should be eyed with great suspicion. People that are kicking the prop s out from under our grand military establishment prematurely. Now, theres other differences between the perot approach and what we see up here on either side of me, and that has to do with we want to focus our interests, economic and military, more to the pacific. We figure that we generally are going along with any sort of a troop removal from europe. So thats still another face of this puzzle. Senator gore, would you like to start the discussion period . Nochlt i would like to respond to you, admiral stockdale. Under the details of our fiveyear budget plan, we do propose more in defense cuts than george bush and dan quayle but only 5 more. Admiral crowell, one of your classmates in annapolis. Oh, yes. Ive known him for years. Has endorsed our plan, even though he was chairman of the joint chiefs under george bush and john white has endorsed the economic aspects of our plan, even though i believe he was the architect of ross perots economic plan. When i heard george bush say at the convention in houston when he heard the phrase we won the cold war, it made him wonder who the we was. I want to tell you, president bu bush, the we is the people of the United States of america. This wasnt a partisan victory that came suddenly a few months after you took the oath of office. This started with harry truman and it was a bipartisan effort from the very beginning. George bush taking credit for the berlin wall coming down is like the rooster taking credit for the sunrise. [ applause ] and i want to add one other thing. In the debate a few nights ago, i think president bush made a sle serious misstatement of fact in response to ross perot. It was kind of a little lecture he gave to ross perot when he said those ss 18s are gone, ross. Thats done. He reached a deal with Boris Yeltsin to remove them so we can all sleep safely without any fear tonight. But you know what . They thought they were going to get that deal. When he took the person in charge of the negotiations out of the state department and put him in charge of the reelection campaign, the deal unraveled. And now there is no startto deal at all. In fact, there are serious problems. Isnt it a fact, dan, that every single one of those ss 18s is still there in the silos and under the start1 treaty only ahalf of the silos are supposed to be dismantled and there is no deal to get rid of the other half. Vice president quayle, please . He does have a commitment from Boris Yeltsin. Is it an agreement . It is a commitment. Oh. Lets talk lets talk about what lets talk about let him talk. Lighten up here, al. Go ahead. Lets talk about getting agreements. President of the United States doesnt just negotiate with your friends in congress. President of the United States deals on the international scene, has to deal with the president of russia, the chancellor of germany, Prime Minister of britain, president of france, Prime Minister of japan, a whole host of leaders around the world. And the leaders sit down and they will negotiate, and they will come to agreements with people that they trust. And this is a fundamental problem with bill clinton. Its trust and character. It is not the issue of how we avo he avoided military service 20 some years ago. Its fact that he does not tell the truth about it. First he said he didnt get an induction notice, then we found out he did. He said he didnt have an rotc slot, then we found out he did. He said he didnt use the Senators Office for influence, then we found out he did. Bill clinton has trouble telling the truth. He will have a very difficult time dealing with somebody like president yeltsin, chancellor cole, Prime Minister major, because truth and integrity are prerequisites to being president of the United States. I want to respond to that. I want to respond to that. George bush, in case youve forgotten, dan, said read my lips, no new taxes. Read my lips. I didnt think i was going to hear that tonight. Hold on. Hold on. Let me finish. Okay. He also said he wanted to be the environmental president. Then he went on to say he wanted to be the education president. Then he said that he wouldnt raise taxes again. No, never, ever, ever. Then the next day his spokesman Marlon Fitzwater came out and said thats not a pledge. After the election, if you win, james baker is going to go back to being secretary of state. A week later in the debate a few nights ago, he said no after the election if we win. James baker is going to be in charge of domestic policy. Which is it, man . Is he going to whats your role in this going to be . Well have to move on to another topic. Im sorry, mr. Vice president. I dont have time to respond to that . Youll get plenty of chance to respond. I was under the assumption with things like that he ran out of time according to the agreement. You got the last word on that but well come back to it. I can see whats happening here. We throw out the topic and then we drift but thats okay, because i think its making for a healthy exchange. The only thing i would ask im enjoying it. Of you gentlemen, when we get to the discussion period, be considerate of the others because you have a tendency to filibuster. Look over there. Im not pointing any fingers. Lets talk about the environment. Well get away from controversy. Everyone wants a safe and clean environment. But theres an ongoing conflict between Environmental Protection and the need for Economic Growth and jobs. So the point i throw out on the table is how do you resolve this conflict between protection of the environment and growth and jobs and why has it taken so long to deal with basic problems such as toxic waste dumps, clean air and clean water . Vice president quayle, its your turn to start first. Thats a false choice. You dont have to have a choice between the environment and jobs. You can have both. Look at president s record. Clean air, legislation, passed the Democratic Congress because of the leadership of george bush. It is the most comprehensive, Clean Air Act in our history. We are firmly behind in preserving our environment and we have a good record with which to stand. The question comes about, what is going to be their position when it comes to the environment . I say its a false choice. You ought to ask somebody in michigan, a uaw worker in michigan if they think increasing the cafe standards, fuel economy standards at 45 miles a gallon is a good idea. Talk to the timber people in the northwest where they say that we can only say oh, forget about jobs. Talk to the coal miners. Theyre talking about putting a coal tax on, tax on utilities, tax on gasoline, home heating oil. All sorts of taxes. No, hal, the choice isnt the environment and jobs. With the right policies, prudent policy policies, we can have both. Admiral stockdale . I read senator gores book about environment, and i dont see how he could possibly pay for his proposals in todays economic climate. [ applause ] you the marginal plan of environment and so forth. And also im told by some experts that the things that he fears most may not be all that dangerous, according to some scientists. You know, you can overdo, im told, environmental cleaning up. If you purify the pond, the water lilies die. The environment i love this planet. And i want it to stay here, but i dont like to have it the private property of fanatics that want to overdo this thing. [ cheers and applause ] senator gore . Bill clinton and i believe we can create millions of new jobs by leading the environmental revolution instead of dragging our feet and bringing up the rear. Japan and germany are both openly proclaiming to the world now that the biggest new market in the history of World Business is the market for the new products and technologies that foster economic progress without environmental destruction. Why is the Japanese Business organization the largest one they have arguing for tougher Environmental Standards than those embodied in u. S. Law. Why is their trade organization calling on all japanese corporations everywhere in the world to exceed by as much as possible the Environmental Standards of every country in which theyre operating . Well, maybe theyre just dumb about business competition, but maybe they know something that george bush and dan quayle dont know, that the future will call for greater efficiency, and greater environmental efficiency. This is a value this is an issue that touches my basic values. Im taught in my religious tradition that we are given dominion over the earth but are required to be good stewards of the earth. Were not doing that now under the bush quayle policies. Theyve gutted the Clean Air Act, broken his pledge to be the environmental president. Bill clinton and i will change that. Discussion period now. Again, leave time for each other, please. Vice president quayle, go ahead. Im tempted to yield to admiral stockdale on this. But i you know, the fact of the matter is that one of the proposals that senator gore has suggested is to have the taxpayers of america spend 100 billion a year on environmental projects in Foreign Countries. Foreign aid. Not true. Senator its in your book on page 304. It is not. It is there. No, its not. It is in your book. Hal, i wanted to bring the gore book tonight, because i figured he was going to pull a bill clinton on me, and he has, because hes going to disavow whats in his book. Its in your book. No. Comes out to 100 billion of foreign aid for environmental projects. Give him a chance to answer. How are we going to pay for an extra 100 billion of the taxpayers money for this . I appreciate you reading my book very much, but ive got it wrong. No, ive got it right. Theres no such proposal. Let him talk about it, mr. Vice president. Let the senator talk. There is no such proposal. What ive called upon is a cooperative effort by the United States, europe and asia to Work Together in opening up new markets throughout the world for the new technologies that are necessary in order to reconcile the imperatives of economic progress with the imperatives of Environmental Protection. Take mexico city, for an example. They are shutting down factories right now. Not because of their economy, but because theyre choking to death on the air pollution. Theyre banning automobiles some days of the week. Now what they want is not new laserguided missile systems. What they want are new engines, new factories and new products that dont pollute the air and water, but nevertheless allow them to have a decent standard of living for their people. Last year 35 of our exports went to developing countries. Countries where the population is expanding worldwide by as much as 1 billion people every ten years. We cannot stick our heads in the sand and pretend we dont face a Global Environmental crisis. Nor should we assume that its going to cause jobs. Quite the contrary. We are going to be able to create jobs as japan and germany are planning to do right now if we have the guts to lead. Now earlier, we heard about the Auto Industry and timber industry. There have been 250,000 jobs lost in the Automobile Industry during the reagan bush quayle years. There have been tens of thousands of jobs lost in the timber industry. They like to point the finger of blame with one hand and hand out pink slips with the other hand. Theyve done a poor job, both with the economy and the environment. Its time for a change. Admiral stockdale, do you have something you want to say here . I know that i read where senator gores mentor had disagreed with some of the Scientific Data that is in his book. How do you respond to those criticisms of that sort . Do you deny it. Take this into account . Thats what it is. Let me respond. Thank you, admiral, for saying that. Youre talking about roger revelle. His family wrote a lengthy letter saying how terribly he had been misquoted and had his remarks taken completely out of context just before he died. He believed up until the day he died no, its true. [ audience reaction ] i would ask the audience to stop please. Just before he died, he coauthored an article that had statements taken completely out of context. The vast majority of the world scientists, and they have worked on this extensively, believe that we must have an effort to face up to the problems we face with the environment. And if we just stick our heads in the sand and pretend that its not real, were not doing ourselves a favor. Even worse than that, were telling our children and all future generations that we werent willing to face up to this obligation. I believe that we have a mandate. Still has time. To try to solve this problem, particularly when we can do it while we create jobs in the process. Go ahead, mr. Vice president. Theres still time. Not much, though. I know it. Weve got to have a little equal time here now, hal. In the book, you also suggest taxes on gasoline, taxes on utilities, taxes on carbon, taxes on timber. Theres a whole host of taxes. I dont believe raising tacks is the way to solve our environmental problems. And you talk about the bad situation in the Auto Industry, you seem to say that the answer is, ill just make it that much worse, by increasing the cafe standards. The Auto Industry is hurting. Its been hurting for a long time. Increasing the cafe standards to 45 miles per gallon like you and bill clinton are suggesting will put, as i said, 300,000 people out of work. Okay. Lets move on now. I would like to remind the audience of one thing. Trying to stop you from applauding may be a lost cause. I didnt say anything about hissing, but i do think it is discourteous, and theres no call for that, and it reflects badly on the candidate youre supporting. So, lets knock that off. Lets move on to health care. Health care protection has become a necessity of life in our society, yet millions of americans are not insured and the cost of medical treatment is out of control. How do you propose to control these costs and how are you going to provide access to health care for every american . Lets see. Whose turn is it to go now . Admiral stockdales turn to go first. Go ahead. Well, we have excellent, Technical Health care, but we dont administer it very well. And the escalating costs top any other budget danger in the on the horizon, i think. And what mr. M perot has suggestd is that we try to look at the incentives. The incentives that are in our current way of doing business are what is killing us. Theres no incentive for a hypochondriac to not go to medicare every day. Theres no incentive for a doctor to curtail the expensive tests because hes under threat of malpractice lawyers. And so we just have a web of wrongway incentives that has to be changed by some people who are in the medical profession and some other crafty people who know how to write contracts to change incentives or get the incentives the situation under control. Senator gore . Bill clinton and i believe if a criminal has a right to a lawyer, every American Family ought to have the right to see a doctor of their own choosing when they need to see a doctor. There are almost 40 million americans who work full time today and yet have no Health Insurance whatsoever. We are proposing to change that. Not with a governmentrun plan. Not with new taxes, but with a new approach called managed competition. We are going to provide a standard Health Insurance package, provided by private Insurance Companies and eliminate the duplication and red tape and overlap. And were going to have cost controls to eliminate the unnecessary procedures that are costing so much money today. There was a Bipartisan Commission evenly provided between republicans and democrats who looked at our plan and the bush quayle proposal. They said ours will save tens of billions of dollars and cover every american. The bush proposal, by contrast, will cost us tens of billions and still leave americans uninsured. What i want to know is, why has george bush waited for 3 1 2 years during this Health Insurance crisis before finally coming out with a proposal just before the election, and he still hasnt introduced it in congress . Why the long wait, dan . Vice president . Al, president bush has had his Health Care Reform agenda on capitol hill for eight months. Hes had parts of it up there for years. You talk about increasing costs that the president has had on capitol hill, medical malpractice reform legislation for several years. Defensive medicine and health care today costs 20. 7 billion. Defensive medicine defined as testing and treatment that is only necessary in case of a lawsuit. Wouldnt that be nice to take 20. 7 billion were putting into our legal system and put it to Preventive Health care, or Womens Health care, or Something Else besides trial lawyers . No, you dont want to reform the Health Care System to drive down costs of medical malpractice. You are talking about a government program. Your program is to ration health care. You said in your statement to see a doctor when you want to see a doctor. You start rationing health care, there will be a waiting line to see a doctor unless theres an emergency. Waiting lines at the gasoline stations is when we rationed energy. Same thing would happen when you ration health care. President s plan deals with purchasing health care in the private sector and making Health Care Affordable and available to every single american. Admiral stockdale, would you like to start the discussion period . Well, im out of ammunition on this one. Let me talk then. Ive got a couple of things to say. Go ahead, senator. We still didnt get an answer to the question why george bush waited for 3 1 2 years. He didnt wait for 3 1 2 years. I did answer the question. During the National Health crisis before he even made a proposal. It still hasnt been submitted to congress in the form of legislation. It has. I also want to talk about malpractice. Do you know which state has the lowest malpractice premiums in the entire country . Bill clintons arkansas does, partly because he has passed reform measures to limit the time during which malpractice suits can be filed. Claims generally have fallen 4 under bill clinton there. You know, thats not the reason for this Health Insurance crisis. The reason is, weve had absolutely no leadership. Let me tell you about a friend of mine named mitch filpot from marietta, georgea not far from here, who tipper and i met. Their son, brett, was in the bed next to our son and they couldnt pay their medical bills. They used to live in atlanta, but they lost their house. While they were there, both mitch and his wife lost their jobs because they could not get unpaid leave. We passed legislation to give family leave under circumstances like that, exempting Small Business. How can you talk about family values, dan, and twice veto the family medical leave act . Mr. Vice president . [ applause ] pass our family leave act because it goes to Small Businesses where the major problem is. Your proposal excluded Small Business. Thats the problem. Let me talk about health care did you require it . My turn. Did you require it . My turn. Its a free discussion. Take a breath, al. Inhale. Its a free discussion. Did you require family leave in that legislation, yes or no . We offered incentives to Small Businesses. Yes or no . Where small thats a no. Were Small Businesses exempt under your proposal . Yes. Did you require of anyone im going to get back to the topic at hand. He obviously doesnt want to talk about Health Insurance or health care, which you addressed. I was absolutely another clinton. Pulled another clinton on me, because here you go again. Medical malpractice legislation has been before the congress of the United States, and you tried to convince the American People that bill clinton is for tort reform, the Biggest Campaign contributors are the trial lawyers of america. We have a letter, and were going to release it again to the media, if the media is interested, where the head of the trial lawyers of arkansas is saying bill clinton is basically in their back pocket, that bill clinton has always opposed tort reform of any kind. Its in the letter. We have it. Well make it available, because bill clinton is not for tort reform. I would like to know where he stands on Health Insurance. He said i am for the pay or play Health Insurance. Pay or play . Thats a 7 to 9 payroll tax on every worker in america that participates in this program. Can i respond . Then all of a sudden, this summer he says im not for a pay or play. Here we go again. Bill clinton, one day hes for pay or play. The next day hes against pay or play. Milwaukee, wisconsin saying im for choice and education. Then he goes to the nea Teachers Union and says im not for choice in education, because you wont let me be for choice in education. One time bill clinton says term limits. Its ridiculous a member of congress can serve for 30, 4050 years and you limit the terms of a president. But thats another subject. Were fixing to limit one. [ cheers and applause ] its not going to be mine. Its going to be people like you and kennedy and metzenbaum and George Mitchell and the rest of the congress on capitol hill. Thats what were talking about. In case you well know, you have term limits for a president , you dont have term limits for congress. Its absolutely ridiculous that we dont. Here goes bill clinton again. Term limits, thats an interesting idea, i might be in favor of that. Democratic friends in congress say no, bill, you cant be for that. Bill clinton has trouble telling the truth. You have to tell the truth. Zplie want to respond if, i might. Go ahead, senator, quickly. In response to my question before that long laundry list, he said that they had their own family leave proposal. It was just like the proposal of your party back when Social Security was first proposed. You said were for it, as long as its voluntary. Same with medicare. You said were for it, so long as its voluntary. Civil rights . Were for it, so long as its voluntary. Srenator, wrap this one up. Thank you. Family leave is important enough to be required. Okay, thanks. Coming out of health care, again trying to avoid controversy, let talk about the abortion debate. [ laughter ] what did he say . Abortion. Abortion. It has been a bit of controversy in this country for years. Its been heightened. Where do you stand on the issue, what action will your president S Administration take on the abortion question . Will it be a factor in the appointment of federal judges, especially to the Supreme Court . And i believe its senator gore who goes first. Bill clinton and i support the right of a woman to choose. That doesnt [ applause ] that doesnt mean were proabortion. In fact, we believe there are way too many abortions in this country and the way to reduce them is by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies, not vetoing family planning, the way george bush has consistently done. The reason we are pro choice and in favor of a womans right to privacy is because we believe during the early stages of a pregnancy, the government has no business coming in and ordering a woman to do what the government thinks is best. What dan quayle and george bush and jerry falwell, and Pat Robertson think is the right decision in a given set of circumstances is their privilege, but dont have the Government Order a woman to do what they think is the right thing to do . We ought to be able to build more Common Ground among those who describe themselves as pro choice and pro life, in efforts to reduce the efforts of unwanted pregnancies. You can clear this up simply by repeating after me. I support the right of a woman to choose. Can you say that . Vice president quayle, your turn. This issue has been an issue that divides americans deeply. I happen to be prolife. I have been pro life for my 16 years in public life. My objective and the president as objective is to try to reduce abortions in this country. We have 1. 6 million abortions. We have more abortions in washington, d. C. , than we do live births. Why shouldnt we have more reflection upon the issue before the decision of abortion is made . I would hope that we would agree upon that, Something Like a 24hour waiting period, parental notification. I was in los angeles recently and i talked to a woman who told me that she had an abortion when she was 17 years of age. And looking back on that, she said it was a mistake. She said, i wish at that time that i was going through this difficult time, that i had counseling to talk about the postabortion trauma and talk about adoption rather than abortion, because if i had had that discussion, i would have had the child. Lets not forget that every abortion stops a beating heart. I think we have far too many abortions in this country of ours. Admiral stockdale . I believe that a woman owns her body and what she does with it is her own business, period. [ cheers and applause ] period. Thats it . [ cheers and applause ] i, too, abhor abortions, but i dont think they should be made illegal and i dont think its a political issue. I think its a privacy issue. [ applause ] admiral, you caught me by surpri surprise. Lets go ahead with the discussion of this issue. Senator gore . You notice in his response, dan did not say i support the right of a woman to choose. That is because he and george bush have turned over their party to pat buchanan and phyllis schaffley, have w. H. O. Have ordered them to endorse a platform which makes all abortions illegal under any circumstances, regardless of what has led to that decision by a woman. Even in cases of rape and inc t incest. Their platform requires that a woman be penalized, that she not be allowed to make a choice, if she believes in consultation with her family, her doctor and others, whoever she chooses, that she wants to have an abortion after rape or incest. They make it completely illegal under any of those circumstances. Now they want to waffle around on it. Let me finish this briefly. Now you want to waffle around on it and give the impression that maybe you dont really mean what you say. But again, you can clear it up by simply repeating, i support the right of a woman to choose. Say it. Let him say it himself. Let him say his own words. Thank you. Go ahead, mr. Vice president. Talk about waffling around. This issue is a very important issue. It has been debated throughout your public life and throughout my public life. One thing that i dont think is wise to do, and that is to change your position. At one time, and most of the time in the house of representatives, you had a prolife position. Thats simply not true. We will pass out this letter to the media, too, you wrote a letter saying you opposed tabspayer funding of abortion. In some circumstances. Want to qualify it now . I still do. And bill clinton, when he was governor of arkansas, worked with the right to life people and supported right to life positions and now he has changed. Talk about waffling around. This is the typical type of clinton response, even on the issue like abortion. Hes on both sides of the issue. Take the nafta agreement. How long did he stick to abortions, mr. Vice president. You want to change the subject but lets stay on this one a while. How long did he have to wait or how quickly did he change his position on education . He changes his position all the time. Lets stay on this issue for a while. Bill clinton has trouble telling the truth. Three words he fears most in the english language, tell the truth. The question was not about free trade or education. The question was about youre the one who brought up the issue about waffling. I let you talk. Let me talk now. Its going to be a long evening if youre like this now. No, no, its not. No changing the subject. No changing the subject. What you have answer my question. Answer my questions. On the 24hour waiting period, do you support that . Do you support that . Ive had the same position on abortion, a womans right to choose. Do you support a womans right to choose or not . Do you support a 24hour waiting period . Youre avoiding the question. Youre avoiding the question. Why this is so important, there are millions of women in the country who passionately believe of a right to a womans privacy. They want to stack the Supreme Court with justices who will take their right away to privacy. Thats their agenda. If you support them, dont be surprised that is exactly what they want to do and that is why dan quayle refuses to say this evening that he supports the right of a woman to choose. I agree with admiral stockdale and the vast majority of democrats and republicans in this country. You know, one of the reasons so many republicans are supporting the clinton gore ticket is because theyve turned over the party to this rightwing extremist group, which takes positions on issues like abortion that dont even allow exceptions for rape and incest. Again, cant you just say you support the right of a woman to choose . Can we give admiral stockdale a chance to jump in here if he would like to . I would like to get in i feel like im an observer at a ping pong game, where theyre talking about well, you know, their expert, professional politicians that massage these intricate plots and know every nuance to them. And meantime, were facing a desperate situation in our economy. Ive seen the cost of living double in my lifetime. A new granddaughter was born in my family. My granddaughter, three weeks ago. According to the statistics that we have that is, the perot group, the chances of her seeing a doubling of the standard of living are nil. In fact, her children will be dead before another this standard of living is doubled. So what the heck . Lets get on talking about something of subsidy. Mr. Vice president , you have a chance to in the closing statements. Just 15 seconds to respond. Can i have 15 seconds also . All right, all right. Lets move on. Ill tell you what were not horse trading. Were having a debate. Lets go on. Lets talk about the cities. Thats where a majority of americans live, in urban areas. Theyre facing a financial and social crisis. Theyve lost sources of tax revenue, aid that once came from federal and state governments has been drastically cut. Theres an epidemic of drugs, crime and violence. Streets and schools are like war zones. Its becoming increasingly difficult to pay for public education, for transportation, for police and fire protection, the basic services that local government must provide. Now, everybody talks about enterprise zones. That may be part of the solution, but what else are your administrations really going to be willing to do to help the cities . Vice president quayle, its your turn to go first. Its an idea that the president has been pushing. Theres been very strong reluctance with the Democratic Congress. Well continue to push it. We also want, hal, to have home ownership. I was at a Housing Project in San Francisco several months ago and met with people that were trying to reclaim their neighborhood. They wanted home ownership. They didnt want handouts. I was with the democrat mayor of San Francisco, who was there, supporting our idea. When you look at the cities and you see the problems we have, the crime, drugs, lack of jobs, i also want to point out one of the fundamental problem weiss have in American Cities and throughout america today. That is the breakdown of the American Family i know some people laugh about it when i talk about the breakdown of the family. But its true. 60 of the kids that are born in our major cities today are born out of wedlock. We have too many divorces. We have too many fathers that arent assuming their responsibility. The breakdown of the family is a contributing factor to the problems we have in urban america. Admiral stockdale . I think enterprise zones are good. I think the problem is deeper than that. I think we are you know, when i was i ran a civilization for several years. A civilization of 300 to 400 wonderful men. We had our own laws. We had our own practically our own constitution. And i put up i was the sovereign for a good bit of that. And i tried to analyze human predic predicaments in that microcosm of life in the world. And i found out that when i really got down to put iting ou dos and donts and lots of these included, take torture for this and that and this and that, and never take any amnesty for reasons we all understood and went along with, but one of the we had an acronym, and each one of those buck was something you had to make them hurt you before you did it, bowing in public, making getting on the radio and so forth. But at the end it was u. S. , back u. S. You got the double meaning there. The u. S. Could be called United States but unity over self. Somehow were going to have to get some love in this country between races and between rich and poor. Youve got to have leaders. And theyre out there. Who can do this with their bare hands with working with people on the screen. Senator gore, please. George bushs urban policy has been a tale of two cities, the best of times for the very wealthy, the worst of times for everyone else. We have seen a decline in urban america under the bush quayle administration. Bill clinton and i want to change that by creating good jobs, investing in infrastructure, new programs in job training and apprenticeship. Welfare reform. To say to a mother with Young Children that if she gets a good job, her children are not going to lose their medicaid benefits. Incentives for investment in the inner city area. And, yes, enterprise zones. Vice president quayle said theyre important, but george bush eliminated them from his urban plan. Thats not true. Then when they were included in a plan that congress passed, george bush vetoed the enterprise zone law, the law that included them for one reason, because that same bill raised taxes on those making more than 200,000 a year. Lets face up to it, dan. Your top priority, really, isnt it to make sure that the very wealthy dont have to pay any more taxes . We want to cut taxes on middle income families and raise them on those making more than 200,000 a year. And take our approach, the cities will be much better off. What plan is that . Its just going to raise taxes on those making over 200,000 a year . You may call that your plan, but everyone knows that you simply cant get 150 billion in new taxes by raising the marginal tax rate to a top rate of 36 and only tax those making 200,000 a year. Its absolutely ridiculous. The top 2 you referred to, that gets you down to 64,000. Then you have a 30 billion shortfall. That gets you down to 36,000 a year. Everybody making more than 36,000 a year will have their taxes increased if bill clinton is increased. I dont know how youll go to urban america and aing raises taxes is good for you. Go to urban america and say the best thing that we can offer is simply to raise taxes again. This is nothing more than a tax and spend platform. Weve seen it before. It doesnt work. Let me tell you about a story ive got a very good example. Chi respond to that . When we talk about families here. I was meeting with former gang members in phoenix, los angeles, and albuquerque, new mexico. When i talk ed to those former gang members, here is what they told me, why they joined the gang. Joining a gang is like joining a family. I said joining a family . Yes. Because the gang offers support. It offers leadership. It offered comfort. It was a way to get ahead. Where have we come if joining a gang is like joining a family. I do want to respond to that. George bush and dan quayle want to protect the very wealthy. That is the groove that has gotten tax cuts. Nobody here who is middle income, middleincome families under bush and quayle in order to finance the cuts for the very wealthy. Thats what trickledown economics is all about. They want to continue it. Were proposing to also require Foreign Corporations to pay the same taxes that american corporations do when they do business here in the United States of america. George bush has not been willing to enforce the laws and collect those taxes. We want to close that loophole and raise more money in that way. And when the stick to the cities excuse me stick to the cities all right. He talked about ways to raise money to help the cities. What were proposing is to invest in the infrastructure in cities and have targeted tax incentives for investment right in innercity areas. The enterprise zones represent a part of our proposal also. And strengthening the family through welfare reform. And you know, the Bush Administration has cut out, has vetoed family leave. They have cut Childhood Immunization and college aid. If you dont support parents and you dont support children, how can you say you support families . How about supporting parents in the right to choose where their kids go to school, al . You support that . Let the parents you want me to answer . Public or private schools want me to answer . Go ahead. We support the Public School choice to go to any Public School of your choice. What we dont support listen to what theyre proposing to take u. S. Taxpayer dollars and subsidize private schools. Now im all for private schools, but to use taxpayer dollars when the people who get these little vouchers often wont be able to afford the private school anyway and the private school is not under any obligation to admit them, that is a ripoff of the u. S. Taxpayer. This is a very important issue choice in education is a very important issue. He said that he was not for choosing giving the parents the right to choose to send their kids to Public Schools. Its okay for the wealthy to choose to send their kids to private schools, but its not okay for the middle class and the working poor to choose where they want to send their kids to school. I think that its time that all parents in america have a right to choose where they send their kids to school to get an education. [ applause ] well stop there. Would you like to have the last word . I i come down on the side of freedom of school choice. Theres a lot of misunderstandings that ive heard here tonight that i may have the answer to. Starting, you know, for the last almost a decade, weve worried about our schools officially through washington and the president had a meeting of all the governors, and then they tried the conventional fixes for schools. That is to increase the Certification Requirements for the teachers, to lengthen the school day, to lengthen the school year. And nothing this is a very brief overview of the thing, but nothing happened. And its time to change the School Structure in schools, bureaucracy is bad, and autonomy is good. The only good schools we have are those run by talented principals and devoted teachers. And theyre running their own show. How many times have i thrived . You know, the best thing i had when i ran that civilization, it succeeded, and it its landmark, the best thing i had going for me was i had no contact with washington for all those years. [ applause ] congressman we have to go on. What im about to say doesnt apply to the debate tonight. It applies to the campaign thats been going on outside this auditorium. For w three weeks to go, this campaign has at times been very ugly with the tone being set by personal negative attacks. As candidates, how does it look from your viewpoint . And are these tactics really necessary . Admiral stockdale . I didnt have my hearing turned on. Tell me again. I was saying at times this campaign has been very ugly with personal negative attacks. As a candidate, how does it look from where you are, and are these tactics really necessary . Well, nasty attacks. Well, i think there is a case to be made for putting emphasis on character over these issues that weve been batting back and forth and have a life of their own. Sure you have to know where youre going with your government, but character is the big variable in the success, character of the leaders is the big variable in the success, longterm success of an administration. I went to a friend of mine in new york some years ago, and he was the president of a Major Network tv network, and he said, you know, i think we have messed up this whole this election process. It was an election year. By strengthenis stressing that e thing to talk about, not character. He said, i felt so strongly about this, i went back and read the lincolndouglas debates. Read those debates. How did they come by . Douglas is all character. He knows all of the stinky numbers these guys do, Abraham Lincoln had character. Thank god we got the right president in the civil war. That is a question that is a valid one. You know, i would like to brag about the character of my boss. Senator . This election is about the future of our country, not about personal attacks against one candidate or another. Our nation is in trouble, and it is appalling to me that with ten million americans out of work, with the rest working harder for less money than they did four years ago, with the loss of 1. 4 Million Manufacturing jobs in our nation, with the health care crisis, a crisis of crime and drugs and aids, substandard education, that george bush would constantly try to level personal attacks at his opponent. Now this, of course, just reached a new low last week when he resorted to a classic mccarthyite technique of trying to smear bill clinton over a trip that he took as a student along with lots of other rhodes scholars who were invited to go to russia. It was a mccarthyite smear technique. I think the president of the United States ought to apologize. I think that he insulted the intelligence of the American People, and im awful proud that the American People rejected that tactic so overwhelmingly that he decided hed made a mistake. Do you think it was a mistake, too, dan . Okay. Vice president quayle let me answer the question. You said, and i wrote it down here, personal negative attacks. Has anyone been reading my press clippings for the past four years . [ applause ] i happen to i agree with one thing with senator gore, and that is we ought to look to the future. The future is whos going to be the next president of the United States. Is it a negative attack, personal attack to point out that bill clinton simply has trouble telling the truth . He said that he didnt he didnt even demonstrate, he told the people in arkansas, 1978. Then we found out he organized a demonstration. I dont care whether he demonstrated or didnt demonstrate. The question is tell the truth. Tell us the truth. Yesterday in philadelphia on a radio show, just yesterday on a radio show, he attacked ross perot saying the media it giving ross perot a free ride. The press asked him when the lights are on said what do you mean by ross perot getting a free ride . He said, i didnt say that at all. You dont have it both ways. No, i dont think that is a personal attack. What i find troubling with bill clinton is he cant tell the truth. You cannot lead this great country of ours by misleading the people. Gentlemen, the control room advises me that in order to have time for your closing statements which we certainly want, there simply is not going to be time for a discussion period on this particular topic. Lets go to the closing statements. You have two minutes each, and well start with admiral stockdale. I think the best justification for getting ross perot in the race again and to stay is that were seeing this this kind of chitchat back and forth about issues that dont concentrate on where our grandchildren are going the Living Standards of our children and grandchildren. He is, as ive read in more than one article, a revolutionary. Hes got plans out there that are going to double the speed at which this the budget problem is being cared for. It was asked how if we could we would squeeze down so fast that we would strangle the economy in the process. That is an art to follow all those variables and know when to let up and to nurse this economy back together with with pulls and pushes. And that theres no better man in the world to do that than that old artist ross perot. So i think that my closing statement is that i think im in the in a room with people that arent living the life of reality. The world is the United States is in deep trouble. Weve got to have somebody that can get up there and bring out the fire hoses and get it stopped. And thats what were about in the proehl campaign. Thank you. Senator gore, your closing statement, sir . Three weeks from today, our nation will make a fateful decision. We can continue traveling the road we have been on which has led to higher unemployment and worse economic times, or we can reach out for change. In we choose change, it will require us to reach down inside ourselves to find the courage to take a new direction. Sometimes it seems deceptively easy to continue with the old habits even when theyre no longer good for us. Trickledown economics simply does not work. We have had an increase in all of the things that should be decreasing. Everything that should have been increasing has been going down. We have got to change direction. Bill clinton offers a new approach. He has been named by the other 49 governors, republicans and democrats alike, as the best and most effective governor in the entire United States of america. Hes moved 17,000 people off the welfare rolls and on to payrolls. He has introduced innovations in health care and education and, again, he has led the nation for the last two years in a row in the creation of jobs in the private sector. Isnt it time for a new approach, a new generation of ideas and leadership, to put our nations people first and to get our economy moving again . We simply cannot stand to continue with this failed approach that is no good for us. Ultimately, it is a choice between hope and fear. A choice between the future and the past. It is time to reach out for a better nation. We are bigger than george bush has told us we are as a nation, and we have a much brighter future. Give us a chance. With your help well change this country, and we cant wait to get started. [ applause ] Vice President quayle . Thank you. Id like to use this closing statement to talk to you about a few people ive met the last four years. Think a woman in chicago when i was talking to parents about education where she stood up and said im sick and tired of these schools in this city being nothing but a factory for failure. Thats why we support choice in education. I was in beaumont, texas, and met with Small Business people. They wanted to reform the Civil Justice system because they think our legal system costs too much and theres too much of a delay in getting an answer. I was in middletown, ohio, talking to a welfare woman where she said, i want to go back to work, and i had a job offered to me because im not going to take it because i have two children and the job doesnt have Health Insurance. And under president bushs Health Care Reform package that woman wont have to make a choice about Getting Health Care for our children or going to work because shell have both. I was in lithuania, innocent square, speaking to 10,000 people in the middle of winter. Hundreds of people came up and said, god bless america. Yes, next four years as i said, somewhere, sometime theres going to be a crisis, and you need to have a president that is qualified, has the experience and has been tested. Not one time during this evening, during 90 minutes, did al gore tell us why bill clinton is qualified to be president. He never answered my charges that bill clinton has trouble telling the truth. The choice is yours. Do the American People should demand that their president tell the truth. Do you really believe, do you really believe bill clinton will tell the truth . And do you, do you trust bill clinton to be your president . [ applause ] that concludes this Vice President ial debate. Id like to thank Vice President quayle, senator gore, admiral stockdale for being participants. The next president ial debate is scheduled for this thursday at 9 00 p. M. Eastern time at the university of richmond in richmond, virginia. To all of our viewers and listeners, thank you, and good night. [ applause ] weeknights this month on American History tv, were looking at past president ial debates. Tonight, we look at the debates of 1976 between incumbent president gerald ford and former georgia governor jimmy carter which was the First Time Since 1960 that the major nominees participated in debates. The first debate was on domestic issues. The second focused on Foreign Policy and defense issues, including u. S. Soviet relations and the credibility of the u. S. In the wake of vietnam and watergate. Watch tonight, starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, and enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. The president s, available to paperback, hard cover, and ebook. From public affairs, presents biographies of every president , inspired by conversations with noted historians about the leadership skills that make for a successful presidency. As americans go to the polls next month, to decide who should lead our country, this collection offers perspectives into the lives and events that forged each president s leadership style. To learn more about all our president s and the books featured historians, visit cspan. Org thepresident s and order your copy wherever books are sold. In the 1984 election, Vice President george bush debated his democratic opponent, new york congresswoman geraldine ferraro. She was the first woman on a president ial ticket of a major party. The debate took place in philadelphia. [ applause ] good evening. Good evening from the civic center in philadelphia, pennsylvania. Im door my ridings president of the league of women voters the sponsor of the Vice President ial debate between republican george bush and democrat geraldine