Transcripts For CSPAN3 Acting 20240703

Record as she answered questions. It included Vaccine Mandates, apprenticeships, and child labor abuses. [background noises] [background noises] is nick any on education and workforce will come to order. I note the quorum is present. That objection the chairs authorized to call recess at any time the committee on Education Workforce will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to call recess at any time. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to todays hearing. Acting secretary su, i want to start by saying you have been a hard witness to schedule. The committee began working with the department to secure your in person testimony beginning in march. When you would not appear in may we honor your request to appear in june. Using a day, june 7, that was offered by your staff and to which you agreed. We have been more than accommodating to establish a mutual date for this hearing. So why is it that on late friday evening following the committees public posting of the hearing a week ago, your staff told us that you were, quote, no longer able to make june 7 work . What was so important that you were willing to stop the work of a congressional committee, up and the schedule of 45 members of congress, and leave the American Peoples concerns unanswered . The hearing is not about you or your pending nomination. It is about assessing the budget puzzle for the department of labor and the departments performance and adherence to its statutory mandate. However, your effort to evade transparency at the 11th hour calls into question your ability to fulfill your duty as a potential secretary of labor. Acting secretary su, you are sitting here today only because i implored you that i will issue a subpoena to compel your attendance at this previously agreed to hearing and you reconsider your cancellation. I am glad that you reconsidered the lapse in judgment. I am unaware of this committee ever needing to consider such action for departments annual hearing until now. You cannot run from this responsibility. Congress and the American People have questions about how you have been running the department. Overall, bidens fy 2024 budget calls for 1. 5 billion more in Discretionary Spending for the department of labor than it received last year. Considering your continued unwillingness to provide fully responsive answers to convey oversight request, the budget increase can only be seen as a tacit nod of approval by the president that the department can continue skirting accountability to taxpayers. If enacted, the budget would add 2000 new federal bureaucrats. If the current 17,000 cannot sufficiently respond to a single committee request, i dont think adding 2000 more would help the departments bureaucratic sclerosis. If anything, more bureaucrats will mean more paperwork and more redtape under which to bury our oversight requests. Course, this paperwork and red tape will bury workers and businesses trying to make a living. We should be shrinking, not expanding the size of the federal government. Nevertheless, after years of conducting oversight i have found that no amount of bureaucratic red tape cannot escape can obfuscate an objectively poor record. When a record speaks for itself and its complications and confusions on naturally resolved the clarity. We are here to talk about your departments record, acting secretary su, and it does not hold up well. The departments rap sheet is long. It includes over 100 planned rule makings and longterm actions. From its first day in office, biden reversed Many Trump Administration policies that would have promoted hiring, Employment Opportunities and he began pursuing radical policies that would expand the size and scope of government. The Biden Administration has amassed a troubling record of big labor bias at the expense of American Workers. This culture of union favoritism undermines workers rights. Washington should not be in the business of picking winners and losers in the economy, but that is exactly what the Biden Administration is doing whether it be through attempting to overthrow working long independent contracting, jeopardizing franchise businesses or rewarding unions with unchecked power acquiescing to every item on their wish list, proactive just one example of the union favoritism. It is championed by the aflcio big labor groups, socialist Bernie Sanders and now the department. By implementing the key features and pieces through regulation. They overwhelmingly prefer this work status. President bidens antiworker agenda is hurting the economy. We watched its impact on its workforce during covid. Acting secretary su, while you were the deputy secretary, the department imposed a tyrannical, illegal Vaccine Mandate on employers. The rule applied to nearly 84 million in the workforce. Not only was the department wrong on the science of covid, but it also compromised our economic supply chain because of its sweeping dictates. America needs a department of labor aligned with its priorities like filling the more than 10 million open jobs in the United States. At every action the Department Takes is one or two things. At best, it pushes a misguided union agenda. At worst, it subverts our economic stability and prosperity to do so. As i reviewed the budget request , i saw more of the same. In it, the administration requested 81 million more for the wage and Hour Division. This is currently a 310 million federal office responsible for enforcing several important workforce loss and the American People would be incensed if they knew just how badly it is run. Under your supervision, the number of workers receiving back wages is the lowest on record. It is down by more than 51 from four years ago. Over those four years, the whd has received a 10 bump in funding, yet it has received half the results. The taxpayers are not giving a blank check for the departments ineptitude. Whd does not deserve a dollar more. Acting secretary su, i could spend all day going line by line through this budget. There are places where we agree like expanding Apprenticeship Programs. Even here i think the department comes up short. It is hard to think of a worse response to our worker shortage. At heart we disagree on Guiding Principles and how we envision the governments role in the workforce. The government itself is not a job creator. It does not foster Economic Growth. The proper role the department is certainly not to universal unionization. Rather, we should promote job creation by removing the government as much as possible from the equation. Yes, that means subtracting from and not adding billions to your budget. With that, i look forward to the hearing today and yield to the Ranking Member for an opening statement. Thank you, dr. Fox and acting secretary su. Good morning and thank you for being with us. You are here with us now. We have had problems getting Previous Administration officials to the committee, but thank you for being with us today. We have an opportunity to discuss the work of President Biden and acting secretary su and what they have done for workers, dismisses, and the economy as well as investments we must continue to make. Committee democrats and i strongly support ms. Sus nomination to be secretary of labor because she represents the best of america. She is the daughter of immigrants who owned a strong small laundromat and franchise pizza restaurant and became the first of her family to attend law school. We support acting secretary sus nomination not just because of who she is, but for what she has done. Throughout her service as California Labor commissioner, secretary of the California Labor and Workforce Development agency, deputy secretary of labor, she has been a committed Public Servant who has dedicated her career to supporting workers and families. Thanks to her and President Bidens leadership, and the responsible actions taken by democrats in the last congress, Unemployment Rates remain near historic lows. The job market is continuing to grow, and workers are seeing higher wages. Since taking office, the Biden Administration has created more than 13 million jobs. That is more jobs created in 28 months than any previous president has created in a single 48 month term. According to the white house, the last time we had such a long stretch of low unemployment was in the 1960s. The chair of working age americans in the workforce is at its highest level in 16 years. That is the record. I want to remind my colleagues that every Democratic Administration since the Kennedy Administration has left their republican successors a better deficit situation than the one they inherited. Every republican Administration Since nixon has left for their democratic successors a worse democrat son deficit situation without exception. President biden is continuing this trend as he creates Record Numbers of jobs. The evidence is clear that President Bidens economic agenda is working. This means that my republican colleagues have had to resort to baseless claims and desperate attacks to oppose ms. Sus nomination. Theres an old saying amongst lawyers. If you have the law on your side use the law. If you have the facts on your side and the fax. If you have neither the law nor the fax, pound the table. Julie su is an impeccably qualified candidate to serve as secretary of labor and she has been integral to our sustained economic recovery. Get ready for people to be pounding the table. Committee republicans may talk about Unemployment Insurance fraud in california. This is not ms. Sus doing. Under her leadership california implemented additional safeguards to help prevent ui fraud and stockton estimated tens of billions of dollars in fraudulent payments. They may talk about independent contractors. Do not be confused by republican attempts to conflate california state law with federal regulation. Proposed regulation does not implement California Law which adopts what is known as the abc test. In fact, the Biden Administration clearly noted that it is legally constrained from adopting the abc test. This line of attack does not hold up either. Committee republicans may talk about child labor. Ms. Su is certainly not among the republican state legislators who are working to rollback child labor protections. Unfortunately we can expect republicans on the committee to pound the table this morning since they have no substantive criticism of ms. Sus record in the department of labor. In contrast, Committee Democrats remain focused on concrete solutions, putting money back into workers pockets keeping them safe and healthy on the job and ensuring all workers can enjoy a dignified retirement. I hope my republican colleagues will put politics aside and work with us to deliver on these priorities. Thank you, ms. Su for your leadership and for joining us today. I hope we remain focused on what is most important, improving the lives of workers and their families. Thank you, madam chair. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Scott. Pursuant to Committee Roles all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the Committee Click electronically in microsoft word format by 5 00 p. M. 14 days after the date of this hearing which is june 21, 2023. Without objection the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the official record. I will now turn to the introduction of our distinguished witness and thank her for being here. We have before us today the honorable julie su, acting secretary of the u. S. Department of labor. Thank you, chairwoman fox, Ranking Member scott and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to testify today. I am pleased to appear before the committee to highlight the department of labors fiscal year 2024 budget request. An investment in the department of labor is an investment in our workers and the future of our country. Through this budget, we can build an economy from the bottom up and the middle out. I recognize that congress will be working under statutory budget caps for fy 2024 and i look forward to working with you to ensure that these priorities are reflected in the final bill. The American Dream that if you work hard you can make it has always been premised on having a good job. That is why this budget is fundamentally about investments in people. About what a good job does for an individual, a family, and a community. No worker should be injured or killed at work. The budget request will allow Occupational Safety and Health Administration or osha to improve Workplace Safety and health and be better able to help employers comply with the law. The budget request for the mine safety and Health Administration includes an increase to enable them to strengthen efforts to reduce accidents, injuries, illnesses, and fatalities. The departments request includes funding for the employment and Training Administration to build on the progress restoring and growing the economy following the pandemic. These resources will create pathways into the highquality jobs created by the landmark bipartisan infrastructure law, chips and science act, and Inflation Reduction Act and other historic investments in infrastructure, energy sectors, and manufacturing. Investments in evidencebased Workforce Development models will help states and local areas meet the Workforce Needs of their communities and the needs of industries across the country. Specifically, the budget continues support for the registered Apprenticeship Program in line with the president school to serve at least 1 million apprentices annually within 10 years. Budget request proposals a sectorial employment through Career Training occupational Readiness Program to support the development and expansion of partnerships between employers, education and Workforce Development providers, and communitybased groups. The department proposes Additional Resources for the veterans employment and Training Service to support a legislative proposal that expands antidiscrimination and reemployment protections to military spouses. Military spouses sacrifice daily to support their families and our country. The administration is proposing we do more to ensure that they are able to enjoy the Economic Security that they deserve. Protecting workers and their hardearned pensions and benefits is a priority. The budget request for the Employment Security administration is an increase to the important work expanding access to care for Mental Health and Substance Use disorders at a time when so Many Americans are living with these conditions. The request includes an increase for the missing Participants Program as well as establishment of a Retirement Savings lost and found required by the recently enacted secure 2. 0 to help connect retirees with benefits they have earned. These investments will make a real difference for retired and elderly people. Working together we can create an economy built around the dignity and value of all work and workers. I thank you for the opportunity to testify and look forward to discussing the fy 2024 budget request with you and all members of the committee. I am happy to respond to any questions you may have. Thank you very much, ms. Su. I will recognize myself for five minutes. Ms. Su, i take my duty to conduct oversight very seriously. Unfortunately secretary walsh did not take his obligation to respond to oversight seriously. During your short tenure, your track record appears to be about the same as his at least until you attempted to cancel your appearance at the last minute and are here today only because of my threat to issue a can subpoena. In most cases you have responded with a vague letter providing none of the requested documents. Thereby you technically responded to the inquiry but not in fact coming close. Will you commit to providing fully responsive answers to the committees requests . Yes or no . Thank you so much, chairwoman fox. Im very happy to be here today to testify. I understand our teams worked together to find the date. I just need a yes or no answer. I appreciate your being here. You do not have to say thank you very much for the question. That just takes up time. I appreciate that. I take the oversight role of this committee and congress very seriously. Then you will be saying yes to my question. My team understands that it is our job and my request that we respond to oversight requests and oversight. Do you understand that failure to provide complete responses can result in the committee taking compulsory measures. Good. You know that word. Ms. Su , in march my staff requested performance information on dol Grant Programs. The department has had over two months that the information is incomplete and lacks employment and earnings outcomes for a significant number of grantees. How can your department effectively manage discretionary Grant Programs if you are not tracking performances . Thank you, chairwoman. It is very important to track outcomes to make sure that we are good stewards of federal monies. Then my request should be very simple. Just hit click and send what youve got. Can you commit to providing performance information on all of etas discretionary grants by the end of the week. It is my understanding that we have been responsive to requests from you and from this committee. At that is not the case guess. Let me just tell you directly your department has not been responsive. Please review our request and respond appropriately. Going forward, will you commit to posting the employment and earnings outcomes for Grant Programs on the Department Website . Chairwoman foxx, i am not clear specifically on the details of what you request. We have worked to be transparent about our grants and also about outcomes. I agree with you it is very important. If the letters are not clear , i read the letters very carefully as do the staff members, to make sure they are clear. If you would simply send a response back and tell us what is not clear, we will certainly clarify. We do think that the letters are very clear and that the information we need is very specific. Let me switch to the wage and Hour Division briefly. Despite the wage and hour nearly 10 increase in funding, it collected the least amount of back wages for workers since fy 2010. Down by nearly 33 from four years ago. The number of workers receiving back wages is the lowest on record. As i said, down by more than 51 from four years ago. These results are not due to a resource issue and covid is no longer a legitimate excuse. These failures reflect a management problem. What are you doing as a manager to fix this poor performance . Thank you very much, chairwoman foxx. As the deputy secretary of labor over the last two years, i had responsibility for management of the department and worked closely with the wage and Hour Division to make sure we were performing our mission. We already know that. So what is the solution . One of the things, when we came in in january 2021, enforcement resources had been cut dramatically about 14 . In the time we have been here we have worked to rebuild the division, to train staff and make sure that we are investigating, not all workforces. It makes sense to be targeted and smart and identify which employers are engaged in violations and which are not. You have effectively taken up a lot of my time without answering questions so i will now yield back my time. I now recognize mr. Courtney for five minutes. Thank you, chairwoman. Thank you, secretary su as you are addressing the wreckage that took place in the Prior Administration. We have seen this i would like to begin my five minutes by noting that the biden economy defied all predictions when the economy added the jobs. Even more significantly the number of job openings also increased by 358,000. We are now in a moment there are 10 million job openings in the economy and record low unemployment. This is a moment for the department of labor to really shine because the system which has a dual customer approach where the two customers are both jobseekers and employers can really help close the skills gap that we know from talking to employers and frankly every member both on the republican side and democratic side. If you put them on truth serum they would say that is the number one concern we are hearing from employers out there is trying to find qualified workers. In my district, the Employer Engagement has worked very successfully for manufacturing spiking the Navy Shipbuilding sector. We developed a curriculum in 2015 under the prior secretary of labor they are using to transform peoples lives. Can you talk about your own thoughts about engaging with employers in that fashion. Thank you and thank you for highlighting an example of when these programs work at their best. They help meet the needs for Skilled Workforce and the desire of individuals for good jobs. They help to build local, regional, and national economy. So it is true that in this moment i think the work in the department of labor really takes on an outside importance. We have, due to the really good work of this body in partnership with the president , really historic levels of investments in manufacturing, infrastructure, clean energy, in bringing jobs back to the United States. The ability to align the needs of the employers with the desires of workers and jobseekers with effective Training Programs has never been more important. That starts with employers an understanding Employer Needs. It starts with the where, when, and how of the jobs they are creating and making sure they have partners at the table, Community Colleges, four year colleges, k12 educational systems, workforce training boards. Communitybased organizations, unions, all the players in the economy working together to set up effective Training Programs. The apprenticeship is a very important part of that. The department of labor is laser focused on making sure our investments, the support and programs are building on the needs that they have in this moment. President biden is going to the chairwomans state to rollout the career connected program with the department of education which the secretary was actively engaged. This is an all hands on deck situation in terms of getting trade schools and comprehensive high schools working hard to help to close the skills gap. Can you talk about your willingness to make this larger with education initiatives. 100 . This is all hands on deck. We talk about the whole government approach. I spoke to the secretary because this is aligning the educational system. Workforce system. The a lot of the jobs we are talking about right now in manufacturing will be jobs that do not require a fouryear degree. How do we make sure that a young person from the time that they are thinking about what they will do after high school, whether to go to Community College, a trade school, and Apprenticeship Program making sure that we align the system so people dont have to figure those out. It is so important and that is reflected in a budget request. Its perfect did reflected in the work of the last two years. I certainly pledged to continue the work that secretary walsh and i did together over the last two years. Thank you. Mr. Walberg, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair and acting secretary su. I also want to take a note to express appreciation for my friend and colleague from connecticut highlighting the continuing success of the tax cut and jobs act impacting the economy and the growth of jobs. On may 25, madam secretary along with chairwoman foxx sent you a letter asking for specific information about Migrant Children who are being trafficked and working illegally in the United States. On june 2 the department responded with a letter that was generally and responses and made no attempt to provide any of the documents or communications we requested. This lack of response with all due respect and without pounding the table i frankly want to ask for your continued help in working with your staff in making sure the issues that we request are made. These issues are important to the committees understanding how to keep Migrant Children out of harms way. I would ask you to commit to providing the committee with the documents we requested in that letter on may 25 within 48 hours of the conclusion of this hearing. Thank you very much, congressman. I will direct my staff to work with your staff to be sure that we respond. Within 48 hours. Yes. I appreciate that. I understand the dol is open he rulemaking under the fair labor standards act. There are significant increases in inflation, lingering supply chain problems, worker shortages across the country and a potential recession on the horizon may be devastating to economic recovery. Many industries are still trying to get back to pre pandemic employment but are struggling. Considering the potential consequences of changing the regulations and the fact that the agency last updated the overtime regulations only three years ago, can you explain why dol is pursuing these changes . Thank you very much for that question, congressman. We take a very deliberative approach to any we do you are correct that there is an overtime rule on our agenda. One thing that we have been doing is conducting listening sessions. We conducted 27 virtual listening sessions that have evolved more than 2000 participants because it is important to understand exactly as you are saying the impact of any rule that we would make on everyone who could be affected by it. At the same time, we have conducted these sessions in person, Small Business stakeholders working with the administration to make sure that anything that we do has been thoughtful. We have listened. We understand all the impacts. Along that same line, what about the fiduciary role . Same answer on the fiduciary role. It is on our agenda that we will be certain to be listening to all stakeholders, and were not doing enough to do outreach to let people know that were having listening sessions and we want we want to make sure that your constituents are heard. I am definitely committed to working. That is a concern that many people lose access to common sense, financial counseling and a level they can afford to pay for. I thought we would achieve that. That is a concern that we are going back into areas that, frankly, seem to be working pretty i appreciate that. Let me move on. For decades michigan has had the flexibility to listen Employment Services through local staff and models. Which is enhanced integration of services at the local level. Last year dll proposed the rule that will strip michigan and other states of the flexibility and for force work store staff and reductions. Why would we do this . Thank you, congressman. I can definitely have my staff get back to more details about that issue. As i have said and commit, we are committed to and anxious to work with you and with everybody in this body to make sure we are meeting those needs for the open jobs that are there and the individuals who want those jobs, including those who have been left out of the economy in the past. I appreciate that. If it is working at the local level, statelevel getting people employed and trained, let it happen. That is my request. Thank you i look forward to that information. Thank you mr. Walberg. Thank you, madam chair. Good morning and welcome. I want to first comment that, you know, much of the work of the Biden Administration through your department, the chairman noted the wickard breaking employment and added to that is the wages for workers. Those things are notable. Madam secretary, the two jurisdictions in the United States where this act does not apply is my district and american samoa. Ive been trying to get joined by my colleague and american samoa. We will continue to welcome your department. My other issues are related to the common worker issues, which is a unique visa to the northern islands. May i ask for some commitment that we have your office work with my office and getting some some of this stuff resolved in some way. Yes, congressman. I certainly believe that every worker should be treated with dignity and respect and receive assistance in meeting the Workforce Needs, including those on the islands. Honestly, the question of whether cmi is covered under specific federal programs is a question for congress. I am committed to ensuring that cmi receives the support of funding for which it is eligible. I understand your issue. You do have my commitment to work with you to make sure we are doing everything that we can. As you know, we have federal investments and apprentice programs on the island. We have had funding from the rescue plan on helping to shore up the unemployment system and i certainly commit to continue to work with you on all of those things. Madam secretary, is there an issue that you would like to bring up just to inform the committee of some of the things that the department is trying to achieve. The Biden Administration workplan works. It is the next greatest generation of americans. Those are people that have no High School Degrees or diplomas but they ran communities well. I agree with that. I imagine this is something that everyone of us would agree on. The opportunity to create good jobs in every Single Community is one that we simply cannot pass up. We are in a moment where, as an economy, we have seen record job growth. We have seen, as the Ranking Member mentioned, historically low levels of unemployment. I think this is the present has talked about what it looks like to build an industrial policy in which we build a Strong Economy and jobs. By creating good roads and make sure every home has Drinking Water and there is affordable, reliable Broadband Access and every Single Community, in urban trees, Rural Communities, big cities. These are also opportunities to take good jobs in those very same communities. The department of labor has been very labor laser focus on aligning the systems and making employers with unions, workers and Community Based organizations to make sure that we meet this moment and is the presence at it, we implement and finish the job that has been started. Again, thank you for everything that you and your department are doing and best of luck on your assignment. Thank you. I yield. Thank you mr. Sablan. Mr. Grossman, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you. First question i have is there has been some publications talking about the huge number of people crossing our southern border who have been crossing our southern border on false asylum claims. A lot of these people have been taken advantage of. What is your office doing to prevent prevent people who are not in this country legally and taking jobs away from American Workers and making sure that their employers are obeying all the laws pertaining to this. Thank you for that question, congressman. One of the things you might be referring to is, recently are wage and Hour Division found a large number of children working in exploitative child labor conditions. This was a company that had hired over 100 childrens ages 13 to 17 doing sanitation work, cleaning work in a Meat Processing facility. Can i give you a followup. How many of these children are living with their parents . I dont have a specific number for that. Many of these children were Migrant Children. As a result do you look for vacuum or do you look for the parents if i met . We look for child labor violations in every case. If someone is being a taken advantage of, i would assume one of the things you would do is call the parents. Do you call the parents and look into where they are . In this case, again, some of the kids were 13 years old and they were working the night shift. If i found a 13yearold working the night shift, i would call the parents quickly. Do you look for the parents . What we did here the white house started an interagency tax force of the department of labor leads that does include some of our sister agencies. The questions are asking involve the question is, if you find a 13yearold working the night shift illegally the first thing i would do is contact the parents and find out what is going on. There has been some concern in this town about the last administration and children being separated from their parents albeit, relatively small compared to those working illegally. Do you look for the parents can work do you check it off or see whether they have parents . Some of that work involves the work of other agencies in the federal government. We do Work Together. This is not an answer we are not paying attention to the Interagency Task or does include the department of Homeland Security. Does anyone check to see whether the kids are here their parents or whether they have been set north by the drug cartels . What is going on . All the important and relevant issue to the hand at hand. Our work was to make sure you dont consider that a concern. Next question. In 2005, you wrote that we live in a study based on White Privilege and systemic racism. When i look at the statistics, people come here from all around the globe. People who are not of european descent. Quite frankly, peoples whose ancestors lived in china, india , cuba, all doing better than the native born. When you look at all of these groups not of European Industry ancestry. At least if we define this as financially doing well. Looks like again we see people coming to this country from all across the globe doing better than the native born. You made that comment in 2005. We live in a society built on White Privilege and systemic racial subordination. Given the successes of people of indian ancestry is the most successful. India, china, philippines, cuba. Secondgeneration from the caribbean. Do you still stand by this idea that we are society of White Privilege . Thank you, congressman. The everything ive said more recently is that we are a nation where the American Dream is available to my family. It is kind of an inflammatory thing to say about our country. Do you still believe do you recant that statement . I will certainly say that and all the things we talked about today and the work that ive done in my regular last two years as deputy secretary and also the decades before, i do believe in equal opportunity for all communities. I know. You made an inflammatory statement saying that our society is built on White Privilege. People here from all around the glob the financially better than people of european heritage. India, china, cuba, philippines there doing better. Mr. Grothman i need you to get an answer. Could you comment and that or do you read saying this . What youre noting that this is a nation of opportunity. I believe that. I am a product of that. Im grateful for that. I also believe that the work is to make sure their opportunities for everybody who is looking for a good job. It doesnt matter where you live. Thank you ms. Su. Thank you for being here. I want to show my gratitude for your capable and steadfast leadership of the department of labor. Your qualifications to serve in this role and your strong record as a champion for workers and businesses, those are clear. I share the sentiments of many of my colleagues on this committee in urging the senate to move forward with your confirmation. I find your personal story very inspiring. It is my understanding that your parents had a Small Business. With that, they were able to send you and your sister to college and look how far you have come. It is an inspiring story. I have long time been a proponent of highquality pressure programs. We know they work. I serve as cochair of the congressional apprenticeship caucus. I understand that apprenticeships are effective in building and pipeline of diverse and skilled workers with the pathway to a good paying job. They help businesses thrive. Im excited about some of the work that is happening in the district. I represent with oregon to expand opportunities. Hillsboro, oregon, operates the advanced manufacturing apprenticeship. This is located in what is sometimes known as the silicon forest. It is the first industry supported youth Apprenticeship Program in our state. It is a two year program that provides a pathway for High School Students between 16 and 18 to get hands on paid training that prepares them for a career in advanced manufacturing. The Program Provides employers with a skilled Diverse Workforce to help with nations give a competitive edge. And your leadership will make more programs like this available to more people across the country. Im also grateful for your work with the womens bureau leading to an increase in Labor Participation among women workers. I had the pleasure of meeting with oregon and trades women. It is Amazing Organization in oregon that opens pathways to women with careers in construction, manufacturing, mechanical, utility trades. I know the department of labor and the department of commerce supports the department of commerce and the department of energy. And the limitation of these historic investments that we have made to grow domestic manufacturing but i appreciate your leadership in making these pathways available to more women. As this Committee Considers reauthorizing the workforce innovation and opportunity act, i want to highlight the potential of strategies and partnerships, particularly those that link employers with Community Colleges and other institutions of higher education. Have another example from oregon. The Manufacturing Innovation Center is a partnership between industries, universities, Portland Community college, where the University Researchers and students work on industry developed research problems. Then they provide student with hands on experience to get the stills they need to become workers. They have the willow creek campus that is forged lasting relationship with oregon base and mans venturing companies. There is lot of great things being done at the state level that we can replicate. I want to ask you, madam acting secretary, they have limited strategies as an evidencebased approach to training in many other competitive grants. The reason this is effective is they encourage partnerships between Community Colleges, much like what we have seen in oregon. We know that employers are vital in developing these programs but they could use some assistance in creating and maintaining the partnerships. What are sector strategies, why they so effective . What is the department of labor doing and continuing to do to apply this evidencebased approach in his work . Thank you so much. I dont think i can more effectively describe the benefits of Training Programs and partnerships that really work when you have just done. I really appreciate that. As you have said, i think that partnerships are critical to delivering on the important opportunity we have to connect people, including people who have been left out of good jobs in the past. To the extent that there are jobs in which women have been underrepresented that could do them. I have met with women across the country, when given a chance, they can lay piping underground or work in the construction trades. Not only do an amazing job of finder on pathway to the middle class and lift up their entire families. All of these things need to happen in partnership. I do believe the department of labor role is to help solidify the partnerships to bring people together. That is probably why our funding is sectorbased funding is about that. Apprenticeships are one key tool within the partnerships also. As you said, apprenticeships are a proven, tried and true model part of the average range is 77,000. People who finish Apprenticeship Programs earn an average of 300,000 more over their career compared to their peers who do not. This is a lifechanging opportunity. I yield back. Thank you madam chairman and madam active secretary for being here this morning. The first question, you need to answer that in writing to the committee. We had chairman powell come and talk about the situation with the Interest Rate and the economy. He said their responsibility was full employment and inflation below 2 . He says we are at full employment. I said, sir, do you know the current Participation Rate is about 62 , which the lowest it has been in 20 something years. He said, that is not my job, that is your job. As members of congress we have to figure out what is going on in the workforce. Right now, we had a high in 2002 of 70 worker participation. If you do the math, that is about 10 Million People that we cannot figure out where they are. Could your department do a study and find out where these people are and why they are not working, given the opportunity to work . That way we can train those folks up and give them the dignity and respect they deserve and a good job. That way they can live the American Dream. Secondly, moving on to environmental social governance. When making Investment Decisions , your department had a rule and that is precisely why representative bar and i introduce on monetary factors when making decisions on behalf of the clients. Unless otherwise authorized. We are currently in the process of reintroducing a version of that bill this congress. Yes or no . Should maximizing assets for retirement be a pinch pitch and plan top priority . Do you agree . I do agree that after worker has worked a lifetime and save for retirement that they should expect to be able to maximize the savings. Can you do with that rule . Before the Department Published last year, they stated in march 2021 that the rationale of undertaking was based on private meetings in which unnamed parties express perceived confusion about the 2020 rules and how to interpret them. This means the department based his decisions to rescind and revise the rules behind closed doors. Why would these meetings held in private and not in public . Why were the attending names and dates of these meetings not disclosed . Thank you for that question, congressman. I am not aware of private meetings. I said earlier can you get back with me on that . Can you investigate that and have someone in your Organization Look into it and get back to me why that happened . Like i will, sir. We need that for the benefit of the committee. We commit to providing the committee with a list of all names and dates of all the meetings regarding the november 2022 est process within 30 days of this hearing. Thank you very much. Yes or no . Will you do that . I will certainly but i said earlier send me a letter on why you cant do that and we will deal with it. I want to be clear Retirement Plan cost is a part of pressuring as Many Americans of possible can achieve a secure retirement. Instead of bolstering retirement accounts from americans, your proposed amendments to the longstanding exemption for qualified professional Asset Management impose significant new costs on our retirement system and American Workers and retirees. There is many concerns from stakeholders to this fortyyear policy will have negative impacts on workers, retirees, sponsors and financial institutions. As the department done or will you commit to doing in detail and realistic costbenefit analysis of these proposed amendments that reflect input from stakeholders . Will you do this . Are esd roles did not require Financial Advisers to do anything in particular. What it is it gives them flexibility. You do not do analysis . It is not allowed you costbenefit analysis is . New lack i did. It was not a requirement. It was allow them financial advised to take into account what ever to do what you have said. I agree with. We should maximize Retirement Savings. Get back with me on that too. I am out of time. Thank you mr. Allen. Thank you, madam chair. And thank you for acting secretary, ms. Su and tonic for your strong history of fighting to ensure that every american has access to good paying jobs and to support themselves and their families. One of the things i hear most about when folks are coming up to d. C. Or when im back home in georgia is about workforce shortages but i about again and again. Whether you are building a hospital or trying to find nurses and support staff to take care of the patients, who will be treated there, there is a serious disconnect between the good careers that are available in todays economy and the skills that are needed to perform the jobs. Forces like the inside telecommunications and construction electrician programs offered at the atlanta j atc Electrical Training center in peachtree coroners, which is my district. They actually pay their students to learn. Instead of being forced to take out thousands of dollars in those to better themselves through education, they are being paid a decent wage and given a room to grow while they obtain the skills necessary to move their families and our country forward. Secretary, it is clear we need you more to get americans into this career so we can see the full benefit of our bipartisan investments and the chips and the science act that was signed into law by President Biden. What has been done under your leadership . You spoken candidly about that. I want to give you more time to expand upon that. Are there particular programs that you would like to highlight for us at this time . Thank you very much. And for highlighting other examples have the workforce system, at its best, does his work. One of the things that your example highlights and this relates to the question that was asked on the other side of the dais. How are we lifting up the idea, the innovations of local communities. Much of workforce to vomit works best when it is meeting specific needs in communities and we have seen our job as helping to support those innovations on the ground. Our sectorbased investments are much about that. It is about supporting employers and coming together in their communities with other Workforce Partners to design Training Programs that meet their needs. It is about working with employers to forecast what the jobs theyre creating is going to be. That is the best and most effective way to activate the system. To get Community Colleges. To make sure that their curriculum and offerings are responsive to people could get after they complete any kind of program. We build credibility in the system when we say at the outset this program will lead to an actual job at the end of your training. We have invested in sector based partnerships. We have also been working to meet needs that are well documented for certain industries. Many of them were devastated by the pandemic. In every community there is a need to build our nursing workforce. They did heroic work and we need to invest in them. The department of labor has 80 million funding announcement for nurses. We also know, this is where understanding what the problem is to address it is important. The issue is not just having enough nurses. Its having enough clinical instructor so nurses can get the clinical hours they need before they go to work. Our funding announcement is net to incentivize both of those paths. Tonic. I have one more question to ask. Registered partnerships are key components of Workforce Development. They provide a clear path to good paying jobs. We know this is worked. What has the department done to encourage registered apprenticeships. So we are clear, registered apprenticeships are not just restricted to union jobs. Am i correct . That is 100 correct. In fact, the majority of apprenticeships that we have supported, the department of labor they have not been with union employers. We have been doing work in cybersecurity. That is a growing industry of good jobs. One of the things we did enough four month period, we were able to begin and support enough programs to put 16,000 new apprentices in the Cyber Security industry. All of them in the private sector and many of them nonunion. We also in trucking, everyone has talked about the supply chain challenges. Trucking is one of them. In this three month period, 700 employers and industries to set up trucking apprentices. What we have seen is that we can both solve i think you can submit those things in writing. Mr. Banks, you are recognized for five minutes. In new yorks times for april 17, 2023, says Migrant Children were put to work in the u. S. Ignored warnings. The white house and federal agencies were alerted to signs of children at risk. The warnings were ignored or missed. It goes on to say thousands of children have ended up in punishing jobs across the country, working overnight in slaughterhouses, replacing roofs , operating machinery in factories all in violation of child labor laws. A recent New York Times investigation showed. I think you know that hundreds of thousands of illegal children have entered our workforce in dangerous jobs. This story says that you and this administration have completely ignored what i believe is another example of the biggest humanitarian crisis in american history. What are you doing about it . Thank you, congressman, for that. You are right we are talking about children doing jobs that are highly dangerous. It is illegal for children. Were not talking about a young person trying to get their First Experience working at the local Convenience Store or shop on time and manage a budget. This story says you ignore this issue. I know you just that i am right. Why is your department ignoring hundreds of thousands of children illegally in the workplace working in unsafe conditions . What are you doing about it . Thank you you are right. Let me be pointed about this. The story said the department of labor was nudging what we need to do. I believe the stories came out because the department of labor was doing our job. We investigated a case that involved over 100 young people, as young as 13 working in the conditions that you have talked about. The policies of this administration opening the border wide open has resulted in hundreds of thousands of Migrant Children entering the workforce in unsafe conditions. One lawyer, linda brand holder said there were so many opportunities for the Biden Administration to connect these. But no one ever did. Why did you not do anything about it . You come before this committee today and tell me you agree with me but what are you doing about . What is the all hands on deck moment in your department to take care of this issue . I agree children during that work is horrific. This is also related to our budget request to make sure the department of labor has the resources to invest in all the cases. The reason those cases are amenities the Trump Administration was night and day difference on this. Since the about administration has taken power, 69 increase in child labor violations because of the open border policies that have thought of this country with over 250,000 kids coming into our country entering unsafe conditions. Im glad youre here to tell us you agree with me. The New York Times even says that you are ignoring it. In fact, let me go on. This is been incredible. Secretary mayorkas in april was asked before the Homeland Security committee and the senate about this catastrophe. You know what he said . He shifted the blame and said it was your fault. It is the department of labors fall. Is he right . I agree children should not do these jobs. We should do everything we can with an r it is our responsibility to crack down on child labor and making sure employees dont profit from this kind of labor and they are held accountable. That is what we did in the p ssi case. That is the case that help to bring this issue to light. It is a positive thing that we are talking about. I want to enter this New York Times story for the record. The other thing congressman madam chair, i like to enter this for the record. Mike last question for you, acting secretary. Do you work with i. C. E. On this . There is interagency tax wars. It includes our partners at the health and human services. Is there anyone working with the department of labor to enforce child labor laws . Is the our role between your department and i. C. E. . This task force is meant to make sure we have an all hands on deck approach. My time has expired. Madam chair, i like to enter a record that the acting sector he did july seventh, 2017 instructing her previous role in the state of california for her employees to obstruct the law and not work with i. C. E. There is no reason to believe that she would work with i. C. E. In her current role. This is a catastrophe unlike anything we have seen. A humanitarian catastrophe that is unlike anything we have seen because of this ministration. I you back. Without objection theyll be entered into the record. Dr. Adams, you are recognized. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for being here to discuss the fiscal year 2024 budgets. Good to see you again. According to one study every dollar spent on reentry programs they recoup 4. 00 to 5. 00 after it leads to hiring sales tax revenue. Can you tell me a little about the deal out work in these programs . Thank you very much for that. You are absolutely right that investments in individuals, who have great promise and talent are really important to make sure they can help to fill the labor needs that we have. Our employment and Training Administration has made this a priority under my leadership and that of secretary marty walsh rate we will continue to do so to ensure that when we talk about building this economy from the bottom up, middle out and leave no one behind, that include communities who are reentry. I am sure that you are just as devastated as i am about the recent reports regarding exploiting child labor and drastic increase in child labor violations. Corporations not be making profits on the back of children. And they do not belong in factories. They should bes studying or spending time with their families and being children. The flsa provides critical protections for minors to ensure they are working in safe and appropriate environment. The case that department of their brought up against Sanitation Services resulted in pssi paying the maximum fines available for appointment, at least 100 to children in hazardous conditions. It is a vivid illustration of how seriously d. O. L. Takes this issue. Can you describe the steps that you have taken to combat child labor . Thank you very much. We take combating child labor very seriously in all the cases we have we look to make sure there is not child labor happening we are not talking about a young person getting their first summer job and trying to earn some money and learn what it means to be in the workplace. Were talking about workers working with toxic chemicals and heavy machinery and going to work at night after going to school during the day. We look for cases. We cite employers who engage in child labor. As you mentioned, in that case, the subject of the New York Times and other reports, we issued the maximum penalty. We also appreciate the attention of this body to looking at whether those penalties need to be encased. We would be happy to partner with you to provide Technical Assistance on that. We currently have over 500 child labor investigations underway in addition to that one. We continue to sell complaints and initiate investigations. In the last fiscal Year Department 835 companies that have been investigated and a violation of labor laws. This is a real issue. We are playing close attention. That is one reason why there is growing attention to it. I am hopeful that between our work and our budget request and the public attention it is getting that we might be able to make real strides in stopping the scourge that has been harry harmful but who play by the rules. Let me ask you something about Workforce Development and how we are funding and positively impacted. And what has been the impact on people of color in this country . Thank you for that question. Something that enjoys bipartisan support, the workforce innovation opportunity act does fund workforce programs. Many of the programs we have talked about our avenues for advancing equity. To make sure every Single Community has the opportunity to participate in Training Programs and to get the good jobs that are being created. Thank you very much. I you back. Thank you dr. Adams. Mr. Owens, you are recognized for five minutes. I you my time to mr. Callie reed mr. Callie, you are recognized. Just to make sure i have your background correct. You are the secretary of labor and workforce from an agency in california 2018 to 2021 . Correct. Your Labor Commission from 2011 to 2018 . Correct. In your Senate Testimony in april you touted President Bidens economic record. You said the results speak for themselves. You stated the Unemployment Rate. It has been less than 4 for more than a year, which close to the lowest it has been in 50 years. Do you know how your home state of california is doing when it comes to the Unemployment Rate there throughout our state . Thank you. I dont know what the current Unemployment Rate in california is. According the bureau of labor statistics, california is the second highest Unemployment Rate for the right . I dont know. I trust that you have a correct. If a low unemployment right is a sign of good economic stewardship, what does it tell us about california that has the second highest . Thank you for that question. You are correct. That we share a home state and i was a labor secretary from 2019 to 21 one 2021. We have establish that. The question of Unemployment Rate was similar in california was first second or third in the country at that time. What does it mean that california has a high and a plenary . I think we would likely read there are a lot of measures of what makes a Strong Economy. There is lots of ways to look at obviously, it makes sense for us to try to address high unemployment because people who are looking for jobs need to be able to do jobs and need to upscale and get to better jobs is a goal that i know we share. You said in your testimony in april that too many people still work a fulltime year round and live in policy. According to the sacramento apology letter do you know which state has the highest real poverty rate in the country . I dont know that. It happens to be california. According to recent report from the Economic Analysis bureau, where california ranks when it came to net earnings . I dont know that off top my head. California was 50 out of 50. The goals are produce unemployment, poverty and increase wages. Is california the best model given that it is the absolute worst in the country in the 50 states by all measures . Again, i think that there are lots of measures for how well an economy is doing. My understanding and i have not worked in california for two years. It is that by some measures, including recovery from the pandemic, including decrease in poverty over the last few covering since the pandemic that california has exceeded these are the very measures that you said in your testimony where you love the Labor Department is doing the worst in the country. Let us move on a lot that you were charged with enforcing in california. Were you involved, not with your working letters later, were you involved of drafting eb five, including conversations with industry drafted . Thank you, congressman. As you know, i was never part of the california legislator. As i just said. Were you involved in the drafting of a b5 . I did not. Were you involved anyway . No, sir. Did you support the lock . My job as labor secretary was to enforce the laws that were passed by our legislator. It is the same role i have i understand that. Did you ever express support for 85 . I express the need to enforce laws that are passed by the letter center. Sure, did you express support specifically at anytime . I may have. I know were talking a lot about what i did in california. You may have producing was a good law . I think a. B. 5 was a good lock . I think it is both my job as it acted secretary of labor and the ad the job that i had to enforce laws that are passed. That is not what i asked. Do you think a. B. Five is a good lock . I dont know what give me a little bit more about what you mean. To think it was a good law for the state . Was a good that it passed . When a. B. 5 was first signed, one of the things i did in my role as labor secretary we reached out to employers and worked with i just want to give you one last chance. Is a. B. 5 a good law, yes or no . I think is Important Role to help employers to comply with laws two yes or no . It important to enforce laws that passed you need to get the witness to answer truthfully. I now recognize mr. Takano for five minutes. Secretary, it is great to see you again. Im proud to be among the members of the asiapacific they urged him to nominate you as labor secretary. Id also like to highlight a letter that was sent this very morning led by the chair of the asianpacific caucus. The congressional black caucus, the hispanic caucus and democratic Womens Congress urging Senate Leadership to safely. It ended up with 71 signers asking them to enter this letter as a evidence. Madam chair. Without objection. Furthermore the lot and azeri chambers of congress has worst their support for ms. Su nomination as labor secretary. I asked now is consent for this to be in the record. You do. Thank you. Acting secretary, you know we had a subcommittee hearing that address the Labor Department proposed rule on the classification of workers with contrary. No one ejected much to the proposed rule because it was reasonable. Many business groups now expressing opposition to your nomination issued statements saying that your department the direction your department was taking in this role was reasonable. First, doesnt propose role from the by demonstration on misclassification pass the test . Thank you for that question and thank you for the sport. It has been meaningful. No, the proposed independent contractor rule of the Department Labor does not include the abc test. Does the rule say on page 62,230 of the federal register that, quote, the department continues to believe that legal limitations prevent the department from adopting the abc role or test. Is that correct . It is correct that we were very explicit that we cannot, as a department of labor, apply the abc test. Thank you. Am i correct that the position is you cannot adopt the abc test unless Congress Passes a law enabling you to do that . That is correct. You believe the Constitutional Order of separation of powers means that the department may only lament rules that are consistent with the laws that Congress Passes . Yes, sir. It instead of an abc test the propose role elements what is called the economic reality test . Is that right . That is correct. This economic reality test is consistent with decades of federal precedent under both republican and Democratic Administrations. Yes. The proposal is not the abc test. Lift and the International Franchise association, two of the largest entities most vulnerable to the abc test came out with their own statements when the propose role was release. Lift stated the rule did not declassify lift dryers theres at employees and their Business Model would not be forced to change. The International Franchise Association Statement about d. O. L. s proposed rule apply the proposal and express recognition that the abc test does not apply to the flsa. I asked consent for the statements be entered in the record, madam chair. Without objection. These are most vocal against the abc test are expressing praise for the dll proposed rule. Democrats are not the only one spreading the rule. Ive heard a lot of fear mongering from my colleagues, republican colleagues about your role with a. B. 5 in california after his passed by the state legislator and signed. Secretary su, yes or no, did you serve in the legislature . I did not. Was a california the branch of the State Government that passed a. B. 5 . Yes, it was. Where you and the state law was passed . I was serving as the California Labor secretary. Were you legally were part of the month of saw estate secretary of labor once it was inactive . Yes, i was. It is outrageous and desert my republican colleagues are firing baseless attacks on you and trying to get your opinion about the law, is it a good law or bad law. They are failing in their attempt to mischaracterize you. You spent your whole life fighting to improve the lives of working people. As a daughter of immigrants, you represent the best and the story of your mother coming to United States on a cargo ship because she cannot afford a passenger ticket. Now, hers daughter is up for Senate Confirmation represents the American Dream. I am so proud of you. I appreciate you being with us today and look forward to being confirmed secretary of labor. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Takano, im proud of you for getting the secretary say the word, yes. Mr. Schmucker, you are recognized for five minutes. Take acting secretary su thank you for being here today as well. We have 10 million unfilled jobs in our economy today. It is a number one issue. I have supported and believe we should do everything we can to connect people not participating in the workforce with the jobs that are available today. One policy that i was particularly concerned by was the Department Final rule in 2022 ending the industry recognize a partnership program. With your department justified by saying it no longer believes the skills gap to be a major challenge facing the labor market. Why that comment . Why would the department be undermining the serious of the skills gap and what employers have you spoken to the indicator of the sorters of skilled workers that is not a major challenge . Thank you for that question. We have been working closely with all stakeholders, but employers as well, as you say, to meet the need for skilled workers in that jobs are being created in every key industry, manufacturing, infrastructure and more. We are also very committed to these Big Investments that this body has made possible really committed to helping to rebuild the workforce, like teachers and healthcare workers. I mention truckers. And also it other jobs that have historically not had a production programs, like a cybersecurity. That is work we have been laser focused on. We will continue that work. Would you address your opposition to the Apprenticeship Programs. One of the things that we need to do and have been doing is to make it easier for employers who want to have Apprenticeship Programs to do so. We have done that. It used to take months for an employer to want to do a trucking apprenticeship. It is now a matter of days. We have expanded teacher apprenticeships. Used to be in only two states in 2021 to 17 states across the country. These are registered apprenticeships. It means that they have the quality, the wage progression, all the benefits of making Apprenticeship Programs good for both employers and workers. We need to make it easier for employers who want to do that. We should make it as easy as possible. I think that was a model that would have worked well with your support. I do want to get to another issue. President biden has said that he intends to lead the most prounion president in history. His policies that benefit union workers, which is fine except to the detriment of all other workers in some cases. For example, the regulations on federal procurement and provisions and Grant Programs, the per ministration has run labor agreements on construction projects. Pla limit the pool of qualified bidders to a unionized contract and union labor. It increases the cost, anytime your decreasing supply you will see higher cost. It also limits Job Opportunities for nonunion construction workers. You, acting secretary, have an obligation to support all American Workers regardless of their affiliation. Will you commit to opposing these us was very positive that harm the 88. 3 of construction workers who choose not to join the union. I certainly commit to supporting and serving workers regardless of their union affiliation. Will use report nonlabor agreements . Some of those project labor agreements are written into the bipartisan infrastructure law that was passed by congress. I see my job as having full fidelity to the law, the law as you, this body passes. The law as is interpreted. I think there is also studies that demonstrate that it decreases cost over time because it assures a reliable workforce that is trained and fewer disruptions that the outcomes. I think the study show the opposite. Unfortunately, we are out of time. Would love to have your support to ensure that all workers, whether they have chosen to be part of an you are not can have access to these jobs that are available for the project. I think it is important in the area that i represent, i have seen workers excluded for these agreements. Mr. To sonia a, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. It is definitely delightful to see you. I want to tell you how proud i am of you. Your dignity and grace today. It reconfirms, if i could use that language, your intelligence, your competencies is on display today. It would be a release dad stay for this country and congress if you are not confirmed give your qualifications and your presence today. There has been some talk about california. I was on the legislature when a b 5 was passed. I was the former chair of the Senate Labor Committee where we did the groundwork for that. We are trying to work with the private sector and a salad from the bay area we want to work with the Tech Industry to understand what the proper classification was and not have people take advantage of that. I say this as a long time, 35 years california Small Business owner, who made hundreds of payrolls and always respected my employees. We were trying to get this right. I had to compete against employers who did not play by the rules, including hiring people illegally. We did hold employers who were skipping the laws and you are part of that discussion, hiring people who should not have been hired. Qi had to compete with. The numbers about unemployment and the Unemployment Rate in california is a big spike because of the Tech Industry. I would argue they were taking advantage under the guise of innovation. In the context of numbers from the u. S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, it shows that california has the highest gdp in the nation at around 3. 5 trillion. Apart from the inevitable decline during the early days of covid, californias, the only group during your time of secretary of labor is that right . Again, congressman, im not familiar exactly with that. I trust that you have the facts correct. It is right. We clearly did not coordinate these questions. Median Household Income that is particularly important given the inequality increased faster over nearly ten years than it did nationally. Gross domestic product ingross n california rose by 30 to 2. 7 billion nearly double the amount by which national gdp rose during the same time period which was 68. 5 nationally. And an analysis by bloomberg news, californias Gross Domestic Product increased 21 during the past five years. The working number two new york, 14 california 21 , new york at 14 and number three, texas at a 12 . Among the five largest economies california outperforms the u. S. , japan, germany with a growth rate exceeded only by china and california if it was a country would be the fourth largest in the world. We far exceed every other state in patents and innovation. This economic success followed you to the white house. Since youve been at the department of labor, the economy has added more jobs and during any other administration in recent memory and we are not even halfway through the first term. What policies and the Biden Administration have you led that have helped these levels of job creation and the national Unemployment Rate hitting the historic lows . Thank you very much, congressman for your question. So, as has been said, the last two years under the administration have seen record growth in multiple measures of the healthy economy and defied multiple expectations. At the department of labor, our role is incredibly important in the moment where we both have job growth and economic recovery on the one hand and needing to connect people to good jobs and employers to the work they need as well as to make sure every worker works in a healthy and safe environment and goes home safely at the end of the day and gets the wages they are earned. Those are the fundamental responsibilities of the department of labor and over the last two years the deputy secretary working alongside marty walsh we worked hard to do all those things to fulfill the mission to make sure we were helping rebuild Unemployment Insurance systems coming out of the ashes of the pandemic making sure that we were investing in innovative place sector specific Training Programs that are going to meet employers needs and workers needs, expanding apprenticeships that have already been mentioned and working handinhand with employers and workers to help to take advantage of these three historic investments that are being made to rebuild the economy. Thank you. Ms. Mclean, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair and for being here today. I have some pretty easy questions i think. Simply, you are driving the bus, you are the acting secretary of labor. I think its important for everyone to understand your thought process. Simply put, do you support the United States freemarket economy . Yes. Do you believe in american entrepreneur should have the ability to pursue their dreams and ambitions . Wonderful. So far we are good. Do you believe its the responsibility of the department of labor to make it easier or more difficult for entrepreneurs to flourish . I think that it makes sense for the department of labor to help support entrepreneurs, people who want to use their innovation i will take that as a yes. Thank you. Now i want to highlight your record and try to understand then why President Biden thinks youre the best option is the next secretary of labor with yes and then my last three questions. As the secretary of labor you over saul the highly controversial ab five that reclassified every independent contractor, very entrepreneurial in spirit in the state and effectively killed off the economy in california. If you are confirmed as secretary of labor, will you demand that Congress Passed a similar bill to kill off the independent contractors . Thank you for that question, congresswoman. I would dispute that the economy has been killed off in california. Lets get back to the if you are confirmed as the secretary of labor, will you demand Congress Passed a similar bill to kill off independent contractors and the status . I will not do that. Wonderful. We are on a roll. Do you believe that the death of this industry and the economy as a positive or negative to the economy . And i think we might have a difference here. Thank you, congresswoman. I believe that we should support job growth, job creation, businesses who create jobs and make sure we are paving the road to the economy where Everyone Wants to work has a good job and has opportunity. I also believe it is probably my job to make sure we are enforcing labor laws so that everybody competes on a level Playing Field and that some of the things we talked about today. Thank you. Last week the Supreme Court ruled 81 that organized labor cannot damage Employer Property during work action. Do you agree Union Members or any employee for that matter have the right to damage the property of their employers . No, i dont think theres a right to damage. I do think in your written testimony to the Senate Committee in april, you highlighted the fact that you were heavily involved with the negotiations between the employers and unionized employees. Are you proud of the work that you did on that . I am, congresswoman. Because let me remind you congress had to step in to prevent a shutdown on the system. So in conclusion, i am concerned with your past actions and the rhetoric because we can say one thing but our actions have to follow our words and thats whats important for the American People. I can see why theres a Bipartisan Group of senators who are opposed to your nomination because your actions dont match your words. Youve shown a deep disdain for businesses and employers. And lets not forget that its the businesses and the employers that pay the taxes and its our economic systems that gives us our social programs that we all so desperately need. In my opinion if you cared about the workers you would be supportive of the policies that actually grow business. We have to incentivize businesses. A Small Businesses, we have to incentivize entrepreneurs to be able to work and do their jobs. And i want to talk about one other thing we continue to talk about the job creation and job growth but if we started and then we lose jobs and grow from two to five, we are still down so its the bottom line that counts provided we know how to count and thats what we need to focus on is we have to take a look at the total job growth in the economy because the people in my district are constantly talking about how regulations and the department of labor are stunting their growth and if you truly cared about workers you would be supportive of the policies that actually grow the business jobs in our economy and if i had to vote on your nomination ive got to be honest i would vote no. Thank you and i yield back. Thank you very much. Thank you madam chair. Ms. Su, its great to have you here today. Id like to talk a little bit about where weve been and where we are going. I proudly talk about i went from steel tips to wing tips having gone to that other fouryear school that is called an apprenticeship, the one that i went to was part of the system that is the most successful Job Training Program in the history of the United States its called the registered Apprenticeship Program. Im sure you are well aware of that. It taught me those necessary skills not only to be a successful electrician but also created an opportunity for a great career and the ability to feed my family, take care of them. The Construction Industry is a great example of the most Successful Program that takes little if any money for that Training Program. They take care of it themselves. So i heard a lot about the industry recognized apprenticeships. There is nothing to prevent any company from creating their own Apprenticeship Program, is there . They are allowed at any moment to create it. There is no stopping it. You can do it yourself unless you want the government to pay you to do it, and thats the big difference is we want your money but we dont want any kind of regulations on it even though registered Apprenticeship Programs have been seen and have been experience of the most Successful Program. I believe that private industry wants to create it they can go do it but if you want the government to pay you to do it, there are certain conditions and that is something called checks and balances and oversight. So, somebody thats been involved in that not only california but when you are approved by the senate for the seat that you use to as deputy which you are provided the senate, correct . Correct. Tell me about the programs you asked for 38 million for these programs. Why are they successful and what are you going to do with that money if it is approved . Thank you very much congressman i think they are successful because they are built in partnership. As you mentioned many of them are in construction. Electricians we are facing a growth and the need for electricians for lots of the investments being made right now and having programs that are tried and true based on skills that are needed for the job and have the ability to recruit participants so that we can meet the actual in demand need employers have is baked into how Apprenticeship Programs work and thats why they are so successful because they are built from in demand jobs on skills that are needed. Theres the guarantee of a job at the end of a Training Program. Thats why we spend so much time talking about it here and why the department of labor is so invested in helping to expand them to meet the needs that we do hear that employers have and workers have for good jobs and workers. So the idea of the program for example in a electrician, the electrons in new jersey work the same thing they do in california and the registered programs create the standards. Why is that so important . And storms hit North Carolina, South Carolina and ripped down the power poles there is something called storm break where the line person from all over the country comes together to put it back together. The idea of having separate programs not only leads to problems in the construction or the highest incidence of death on the job years ago before the programs were brought together. This is something we as a country do each and every day. To do so otherwise would be risking peoples lives. But the idea of a program for a unique and new program that they might be doing, i dont think ive heard of that thats a bad idea in fact its a very high rate. Can you talk about what it takes to get a registered program . We hear how hard it is but quite frankly when i talked to the employers its not a big deal. Im so happy to hear that because one of the things weve been focused on is working with employers to meet their needs so we are not only continuing to scale Apprenticeship Programs that we know already work but help build new ones for employers which cut the amount of time and red tape it takes to do that. The electric car wasnt around when i started my apprenticeship and the idea of what its going to take to assemble the new batteries and chemicals is something everybody is open to. The way we are going to do this is working together with employers and they are in an equal part of what we call employment and we need to be ready as a country and we appreciate what youre doing for the next generation of the workforce. You are way over time. A lot of people were. Dont pick on me. Just treat me there. You are recognized for five minutes. Acting secretary, do you think the department of labor has the power to impose a Vaccine Mandate on 84 million American Workers . Thank you for that question, congresswoman. Certainly when this administration began we were still battling the pandemic and i think youre talking about a proposed rule the department of labor did. This was work to try to make sure that workplaces were safe. You were an architect and signed off on. I want to know if you believe the department of labor has the power and if you believe it was constitutional at the time to enforce this unprecedented unheard of action on American Workers. I appreciate that. As i said here today i believe in the law is passed by congress and interpreted by the courts and the courts did strike down that rule and as a result we have not so biden was wrong and the department of labor was wrong in imposing this emergency use Vaccine Mandate on 84 million workers . I think that during the height of the pandemic everyone especially those of us in government were trying to figure out the best we could do to keep workers safe in a situation. We want to know today do you believe that the department of labor has the power to impose a Vaccine Mandate on workers . I again reiterate my full fidelity to the law and what the courts have said about that mandate. Thankfully the Supreme Court stepped in to stop you but i want to know what was your plan if millions of workers were forced to be vaccinated and turn in their medical records if they refused, what was your plan for all these millions of workers that were going to quit . I think one thing just looking back to that period i think this administration is proud of the recovery weve made since 2021 by a whole host of measures. We are concerned about where you are on this issue because you want to be acting secretary here and we want to know what you think is within your power the department of labors power to impose on American Workers because this was unprecedented you were an architect and signed off on it and this was damaging to American Workers. I think what my record demonstrates is that i am focused on making sure the department of labor fulfills its mission including all the things we talked about today to get workers into jobs. It would have cost millions to be fired from their jobs and i just want to say if senator manchin boots to confirm acting secretary su he is voting in support of the biden covid Vaccine Mandate acting secretary su was one of the architects of the Vaccine Mandate which the Supreme Court ruled was illegal and unconstitutional. Acting secretary su tried to force 84 million americans out of work with and illegally and unconstitutional Vaccine Mandate. She cannot be the secretary of labor. She believes the federal government in washington, d. C. Should have massive power over the lives of the American People and it took the Supreme Court to stop her. Thank you and i yield back my time. Acting secretary su, weve heard the most successful Job Creation Program in the country is the registered Apprenticeship Program, but isnt it true that only 43 of people graduate from the registered Apprenticeship Programs . Yes or no . Its 43 . I would never grade anything on a 43 Graduation Rate as a successful. During your hearing for the committee you confirmed the department is not currently working on changes to the employee standard. Will you commit to us today that they will not pursue such changes during your tenure in the agency or the current acting capacity or if confirmed as secretary . Yes or no . Thank you, chairwoman. We dont have anything about a joint employee rule on the agenda. The department. Im going to take that as a yes you will not pursue such changes and yield back. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair. It is an absolute delight to see you here as the nominee for the labor secretary as well and i say that also as an Asian American woman looking at somebody who is so skilled, so experienced, so qualified, such a record of success in your tenure and a deep lived experience of people who do the work every day that this country desperately needs making sure that you are standing up for all the things that america is great because of our commitment to our workers. I also want to particularly thank you for your leadership on apprenticeships and making sure workers have the skills they need to fill the jobs created with the 2 trillion in Infrastructure Investments that we were able to pass in the 117th congress. And to just give the statistics. Since january of 2021 when you came in, 584,000 new apprenticeships created. In 2023 so far, 90,698 new apprenticeships created. We know that under this president under democratic control of the house and senate and the 117, there were 13 million new jobs created since the president took office and the share of working americans is at its highest level in 16 years, so congratulations on a tremendous record of accomplishments. To promote broadbased Economic Prosperity would you agree that they are Key Stakeholders to build an economy that works for everyone . I think my record demonstrates that. You have some history with your own families experience running a franchise business. I wonder if you want to share that. For me the idea that a Small Businesses are the engines of the economy and that they are important for us to support is not an abstract thing. I know my parents owned a laundromat and dry cleaning business and i have memories of being a small child sitting on the dryer while my parents worked. Then when i was in high school they owned a pizza franchise. I remember because my sister and i often we got the pizzas customers rejected. What it means is what Small Businesses have to do. I learned about the struggles to hire and train and maintain a payroll. My dad worked alongside workers and the ovens but when he was needed to take orders he did that and when he needed to wipe tables. So i have Great Respect for the hard work, the investments, the risks, the challenges and the joy of what Small Business owners do because it is the reason i was able to go to college is that my parents had a Small Business. In my time as deputy secretary and in my time as acting secretary and if confirmed as secretary, i understand personally the importance of our role in supporting those Small Businesses. My colleagues across the aisle tried to portray you as someone that doesnt care about a business or employers but isnt it true and number of associations have endorsed your nomination to be the labor secretary including the society for Human Resource management, the la chamber of commerce, the u. S. Hispanic chamber of commerce, Business Leaders and a Small Business majority . Yes, thank you so much for that. I do think that for businesses and associations who worked with me, ive earned their respect and im grateful for it. Your collaborative approach is evident in your experience facilitating several contract negotiations. I find it remarkable that youve been endorsed by both the International Warehouse union and support of los angeles. How would you respond to critics who say you are not capable of being a neutral arbiter . Thank you for that. My record demonstrates that that would be false. Right now there are a number of highstakes negotiations going on and i have the experience into the track record to ensure the parties stay at the table that understand the complexities and understand how important it is for parties to stay at the table is something that i bring to the job. All my colleagues need to do is look at the facts and they will see that you are the best candidate to be the next secretary of labor and i look forward to that. Thank you for your dedication and commitment to the country and to this work. Ms. Steele, you are recognized. Thank you, chair for hosting this important hearing. Ms. Su they are the gateway into the labor negotiations for the west coast ports have gone now for almost a year in an agreement. West coast ports and terminals were shut down after Union Employees walked off the job. Disruptions in the supply chain will damage our economy and its been done because ive saw a lot of shifts during the covid times that its lined up on the shore of my district at that time. The secretary of labor walls or acknowledged this when he successfully intervened in a strike that threatened the entire country. So the question is what is the bureau of labor statistics telling you about the potential damage the portal shutdown might have on economies and the labor market . Thank you so much, congresswoman. I was very proud to work alongside then secretary of labor marty walsh on that negotiation where we brought the parties in for 20 hours in our office and had a tentative agreement. These negotiations can be complicated and prolonged and there will be ups and downs. When it comes to the port we are talking 29 on the west coast involving about 22,000 workers, iao w members and the parties have been in conversation since i got involved a couple of months ago they did reach a tentative about some of the complicated issues but they are not finished yet. They are still bargaining at the table. What you noted about those that were lined up, we also all that. That is not the case today. That is no longer happening and i think part of that is the reflection of workers showing up every day doing the hard work that they did throughout the pandemic to keep our cargo moving and keep the economy running and its a tribute to the employers who are also working very hard to make sure that critical lifeline as you say to trade and goods stays operational. That has been true in the last few months since i have been here sitting in my seat as acting secretary, and i am committed to supporting the parties as they work through the issues on the table and i understand they are continuing to do that. Its sounds like the negotiation will be done hopefully soon but my question is west coast port shutdown might have an economy and the labor market. What is the potential damages my question here. Thank you, congresswoman. I will have to get back on the exact figures but in general you are correct the west coast ports play a critical role. I believe it was like 40 of all cargo moves through some of the west coast ports but i can certainly see if we have more data. The general point that a resolution is important because of so much of the economy relies on what happens on the west coast ports is well taken. Its under negotiations right now and its very much hurting our economy so what are you doing to prevent the strike and work stops because its completely shut down after Union Employees walked off the job. Thats not really acceptable here so what are you doing to prevent that in the future . So, the parties are definitely at the table, they are working through some difficult issues. There are lots of things for them to be talking about. Ive heard there are negotiations but how about the shutdown . Im not aware of a shutdown. So, whats really going on is there been media reports that are not accurate. There is not a shutdown, cargo continues to move and the ports. There been may be a decadelong trend of some decrease in cargo coming to the west coast that isnt as a result of the talks that are going on but i do agree with your general point that coming to the resolution and providing some certainty and clarity is good for everybody. Lets go back to what kind of deal how are you going to resolve this dispute what kind of negotiations going on is that theres a lot of complications and a lot of things on the table right now. How are we going to do it its been what, almost a year and the negotiation was done. That hurts the economy ive been talking about so whats on the table and how are you going to solve it . Thank you, congresswoman. I do want to state cargo resumes to move and we will show up even during negotiations. The parties, the leadership of both parties is very hard at work trying to resolve the issues they have. If you wouldnt mind submitting and writing so the congresswoman the rest of your answer. Theres this idea that these negotiations are complicated if not unique to this particular issue but we see time and time again that the process does work and unions and employers reach agreements. You are a minute over. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair. Madam secretary, i would like to apologize for the insulting way that you are welcome to this hearing. The opening comments were appalling, unnecessary and meanspirited and they were an attempt to cover up the extraordinarily great work the 117th congress and the Biden Administration did to bring our country through the worst Global Pandemic in a century. Thanks to the American Rescue plan, the infrastructure law, the chips and science act and the Inflation Reduction Act, we have the most robust economic recovery of any country in the world. We have the lowest Unemployment Rates in decades, and we have seen wage increases for workers who cannot participated in the Economic Growth that benefited. Large corporations into wealthy during the Prior Administration. So i want to thank you for your service to the country and the American People you work to help every day. As you and i have discussed previously i represent North Carolinas sixth Congressional District where we are enjoying the growth of advanced manufacturing particularly in the clean Energy Automotive and aerospace industries. We welcome this growth but i hear from employers in my district that they are struggling to find skilled workers to fill these good paying jobs. So, can you tell us more about the department of labors work to expand training opportunities to help workers gain the skills they need and also how congress can help with these efforts . Thank you for the question, congresswoman. So, we are really laser focused on this exact issue of meeting the need for skilled workers in the specific jobs and industries that are growing as a result of the important work of this body in partnership with the president to make historic investments. What we are also seeing into this is a tribute to good policy and how important it is when the federal government engages in policy that helps expand the economy and build jobs the private sector also contributes and so we are seeing hundreds of billions being invested in the same industries especially advanced manufacturing in ways that i think are going to have historic impacts on the economy Going Forward, building a strong resilient economy so our role at the department of labors to help make sure Training Programs are meeting their needs and recruiting from workers who and its important to say because its been suggested otherwise that workers have come back into the labor market to pre pandemic levels especially in the prime age workforce of like 25 to 54 so we are seeing again historic Economic Growth. What we need to do is finish that job and make sure that those impacts are felt in every Single Community and every worker that wants a good job can find the opportunities to get them and the employers who ive also talked to many who say they need to skilled workers its our job to help support them and not do it for them. The whole idea is that communities working together have solved lots of problems before but our job is to help support that and bring all the players in the system in line to help do this so one of the things ive not yet talked about his and 80 million grant that is specific to these particular sectors, infrastructure, advanced manufacturing, clean energy to help build proven models for training and also to help scale them. Not enough now because of the growth and jobs created and the point thats been made that there are lots of jobs out there right now that need workers. We need to be able to scale and move quickly to finish the job and thats something i look forward to doing and continue to do with you and this body. My district is also home to extreme universities and colleges such as North Carolina that recently got a 23. 7 million grant to build a Training Program for workers and the Technical Community college that just received a 1. 7 million federal grant to expand its truck driver Training Programs. Should we be working more with our colleges and Community Colleges to create Workforce Development programs . I see that my time is about to expire. Thank you for your testimony and all of your hard work. Thank you. You are recognized for five minutes. Good afternoon to you and the committee i would like to yield to the gentleman from california. Thank you. Weve heard some comments from the other side as well to the effect of what is californias have to do with any of this but President Biden has himself said, and this is a quote, that he wants a federal standard modeled on californias abc test for all labor and employment and tax laws. So youre the acting secretary of labor, President Bidens chosen nominee to be secretary of labor and its fair to ask do you agree or disagree that its a good model for the nation . Congressman, thank you. Let me be as clear as i can about this. Its not federal law. It would only be federal law of congress decides that it should be. Ive not called for that in the federal level in fact ive explicitly during my time as the deputy secretary of labor when we created the proposed rule about independent contractor explicitly said that we do not adopt the test and in fact we cannot. I understand that however theres quite a bit of leeway in that rule and it says it is clearly designed to mimic the test in many respects of the disposition of the enforcer is important. I didnt get an answer, yes or no agree or disagree with the president s statement that the test is a good model for the nation, yes or no . I have to say again because the question seems to ignore that it is strictly in the purview of congress to decide whether the abc test would become the test for independent contractors on the federal level. Earlier you said you might have expressed support. To refresh your recollection shortly after was signed you were on the record and said not only were you going to be at adjudicating claims that came to you but we will be doing investigations and audits so those who want to comply with the need can do so and those who dont will understand and these are your words thats not the kind of economy we want in california. You celebrated its passage. Will you at least please recognize the people in california have lost their careers and livelihoods and ability to work . I want to also say that ive heard from people who said that and i think its important to acknowledge them. Ive had conversations as recently as a few weeks ago where we dont want, i dont want every policy to result in people losing their livelihoods or having to did it do that, did it because people to lose their livelihoods . Ive heard people whove said that and Something Different also. Youve heard people say theyve lost their livelihoods . Ive had people tell me that. Or did you not believe them . Even to the quote that you just read it feels like that quote is exactly what in my role as the enforcement of laws i would say which is we are going to enforce the law as it is written and we want to make sure we have an economy in which everybody plays by the rules. This is a book of stories. People who said, as you put it, that they lost their livelihoods. A couple examples. I worked years of gaining my skills as an American Sign Language interpreter it was my goal since i was 9yearsold. I lost all three of my agencies and i cant provide for my family and thousands wont be serviced. Is your message thats not the kind of economy that we want in california . My message to her would be a lot of independent contractors will always have a place in the economy. But not ours is an independent contractor. I havent had a conversation with her but i do think that its very important to reiterate that the policies at the Unitedd States are the policies that at the federal level or the policies that would be within the purview of the Labor Department. While you are California Labor secretary did you meet with any of the folks that lost their livelihoods . I did. I heard from many people on all sides about the impact after it was passed and as i said earlier i spent a lot of time talking to employers about how implementation could support them. Sometimes people had an idea about what it would do. California voters also weighed in on prop 22 that said we dont want it to apply. How did you vote on that . I dont remember how i voted on that. You dont remember . The one for huber, lyft, saying it isnt going to apply to them . I will give you a second to think about it. I want to say very clearly here that i pledge and i think my record demonstrates absolute fidelity to the laws as passed by this body is interpreted by the courts and delegated i appreciate that but do you remember how you voted . Your time is up. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chair and acting secretary su for joining us today. Its clear from your long outstanding record and testimony and answers here today you are committed to our country, our workers and economy and thank you for your love of the country and for your service to this country. My background is in education. I spent two decades working on schools before coming to congress so i believe that effective partnerships between schools both both secondary and higher education, local businesses, Workforce Development agencies are key to creating successful pathways to good paying jobs. Ive seen how important these partnerships can be up close. I want to follow up on the representatives previous question. Can you discuss the steps the department is taking to encourage that collaboration especially to support pathways like the stem workforce becoming increasingly critical to the economy, can you talk about that . Thank you for that question, congressman. In many of the programs that we are supporting and for which we are providing Technical Assistance, Community Colleges play a very Important Role. We have an opportunity now for millions of people throughout the United States who dont have College Degrees to actually get good paying jobs in advanced manufacturing and clean energy, and infrastructure and a whole host of industries that are going to allow them to build their way to the middle class and so having multiple pathways to that is very important. Working at the High School Level so young people can think about what opportunities are going to be available for them not saying theres only one path to colleges play such an Important Role and that is the space which the department of labor has done more work because of the role they play in workforce systems so in pre Apprenticeship Programs, for a young person to go to a Community College and gain the skills to learn math that will help them get a job in construction is key for them to then connect to the Apprenticeship Program in construction that then puts them into a job, a good paying secure job. We have a Community College Grant Program that i think is now in its third round in which weve invested 135 million in Community Colleges to this end. And so, i think the partnerships, our job is to align the various parts of the system so that they work as seamlessly as possible for employers and job seekers and workers. All of these are important and ive also since ive been in this position spoken to the secretary about the collaboration between the agencies to make sure that this happens. Thank you for that answer, and youve mentioned interagency collaboration and that is important to the work you do and we should all be doing here. How are your agencies working to gather . Can you dive a little bit deeper into that . I have a concrete example to share on that which is teacher apprenticeships recognizing that teachers work throughout the pandemic. I have two children that relied on their teachers in times where they had to adjust and find new ways of teaching and they were doing hybrid teaching so we have now in this country the need to build the teaching workforce and its our turn to reinvest in that workforce that has given so much. We worked with the department of education to expand teacher apprenticeships from in january 2021 there were two states that had them and now there are 17. We are not finished with that work so that is one concrete way but another is what we talked about, looking out how to better align and move systems, how to get the local workforce, how to get state workforce systems. The department of labor spends a lot of time. We have a conference over 400 workforce leaders came to hear about our vision for how we made meetthe Workforce Needs of the s created. Committed to making sure the educational system fulfills the role so we are talking about all kinds of other collaborations that would help to make this system work for the kind of things weve been talking about here today. Thank you and i yield back. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chairwoman and ms. Su for testifying as the committee begins the consideration of the reauthorization im grateful we are able to process some of the progress that has been made or the lack thereof over the last two years. 40 of ablebodied adults are not engaged in the workforce. Every time im in the district i hear more and more from employers that they are we looking for workers and employees. You put a frog proceed in the administration to meet that potential so im going to need you to answer some of those problems for me and my constituents back home there are provisions that have not been implemented as congress intended. Under the regulations the state commits by 50 and still considered a success. To put this in context with of the agreedupon level of performance its just 39 of participants employed in the Second Quarter after exiting the program they would consider that performance a success. What grade would 39 to be in school . Thank you for that question. I do believe that we have to support Training Programs but also hold them accountable. Make sure that, for example, they are actually providing training what grade is 39 . The letter grade for 39 with bmf. Arent we setting the bar too low when we say 39 performance is considered a success . Yes or no is that setting the bar too low . Im not familiar with the exact metric that youre talking about or how its set. For example if youre telling me that we are not, in our implementation complying with what Congress Says thats thatsomething i would take very seriously. In october of 2022, they published a notice of the proposed rulemaking rescinding and replacing the independent contractor rule weve heard some about that today. In its place they proposed the six factors economic reality test to determine whether a worker is, quote, economically dependent on a company under the totality of the circumstances. And in essence saying if they are economically dependent they have to be employees and not under a 1099. Shouldnt the American People have the freedom and opportunity to decide what Work Environment is best for them . Thank you for that question, congresswoman. So the proposed rule by the department of labor does adopt a multifactor test. I dont have much time. I understand its a multifactor test but let me give you a reallife example. So, i was a stayathome mom for five years and during that time i was an independent contractor under a 1099 and i was only operating under a 1099 model with one entity so under these definitions i would have been qualified as economically dependent and under the rule proposed unable to participate in the workforce under that model. That doesnt seem very american to me under the terms of freedom to decide for ourselves what is best for us and our families and in fact if the rule had been in place when i was a stayathome mom i would have chosen not to engage in the workforce as an employee. Will you commit to protecting the independent contractor rule for people like me . Congresswoman, i certainly want to restate that independent contractors will always have a place in our economy, should have a place in our economy and play a very Important Role. Will you turn away from the proposed rule . It isnt the factor that we invented, its factors based on decades of we rescinded that rule is inconsistent. I would encourage you to continue to turn away from efforts to undermine the independent contractor opportunities for american citizens. One other thing i want to ask in the limited time i have now youve said repeatedly as passed by this body, you want to do only what this body intends you to do but we havent ever passed a bill yet taking away opportunities for independent contractors yet your agency is implementing such a provision by rule is that correct . It isnt to destroy livelihoods. Our job is to enforce the fair labor standards act and the rules weve proposed it is a rule that in the states was consistent with federal law. I would ask that you answer the question in writing. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam chair. First, i would like to introduce some letters of support from businesses referred to by my colleague. Id like to apologize for the tone and tenor of this hearing. I worry that we lose many great candidates for Public Office who simply see this kind of thing on television and are not willing to put their name up for this kind of questioning. I truly believe americans want to see more civility and decency from their elected officials but unfortunately i dont think weve seen a whole lot of that here today but i do want to step back a moment and talk a little bit about this joint employer or independent contractor rule. Theres been a lot of questioning without a lot of opportunity for you to complete an answer. Am i correct, first of all, that much of the case law that you referred to arose from the fact the independent contractor classification was often being abused by employers either to avoid payroll taxes, benefits or other things . Thank you for that question, congresswoman and also for reminding us that the reason there is a rule is that the misclassification, now this is not about ending the modified independent contracting but its about making sure everybody plays by the same set of rules and when someone should be an employee and enjoys a centurys worth of labor law protections basic minimum wage, overtime, unemployment safety net, Workers Compensation that they do get that so thats a long way of saying yes there has been litigation about this and that has created a body of case law. When there is abuse of the independent contractor classification its actually to the detriment of American Workers, employees or people who should be treated as employees entitled to the benefits of that classification, correct . That is absolutely correct. There was reference made to the fact your family owned a franchise business when you were growing up, so i assume from that that you have respect for the franchise model as a way for people to get started in business. This is not an abstract issue for me and ive heard directly from the franchises about this that it is a way that individuals, immigrant communities get into the middle class and that is the story of my family. Thank you. So, with regard to the joint employment related issues there seems to be some confusion among the questioners today about who created that rule that is being objected to. There is another separate set of laws and rules. And its from the department of labor is that correct . Absolutely yes. So, this joint employer rule isnt something on the department of labors regulatory agenda and as such wouldnt be something that falls under your jurisdiction is the secretary of labor. That is correct. Is it true the only reason the department of labor handed o take action to rescind the rule is because the higher court instructed it to do so . Thank you very much, congresswoman so theres two different things. One conversation we noticed a rule on that the other thing youre talking about is there was a joint employer rule of the administration that we had to rescind because the court found that was out of step with the law. When you say the Prior Administration you mean the Trump Administration. Created a rule that the court determined wasnt a valid rule and instructed the department of labor to rescind that. I dont remember those specific instructions but we were not keeping a rule in place that wasnt in compliance with federal law. Thank you very much and with that i will yield back. You in the gold prize for today. Mr. Wilson you are recognized for five minutes earlier you said you had no hand in writing the california rule, correct . Correct. No input, no advice . I dont remember specifically about that particular rule but i will say that in my rule in the State Government and executive branch we would sometimes be asked for Technical Assistance on implementation how would this be implemented. You said also and i found it remarkable to hear that because where i come from in the state of missouri, our directors, our Department Heads every agency head is actively involved so do not provide counsel and input would be negligent. Youre referring to Technical Assistance. The question asked is whether i helped write the law. You said that you would not endorse or support taking that long nationwide is that correct . Would you support the rules of 85 to go from california to nationwide . When putting together a rule about independent contractor versus employee status the department of labor undermine leadership into the former secretary we were explicit governed by what the law allows. People in my state want to know as well, we have a very wellfunctioning system for Workers Compensation on the state level. There is credible fear that there will be rules changed from your department that might impact the states thank you for the opportunity to talk a little bit about. We have under the department a program that administers federal Workers Compensation programs. We do collaborate with the states at various times. One of the things i said when i came in his instant of individuals who both would be covered by the state or federal to navigate the system we should do our best to work with state systems to make its my hope that you leave the states alone and let them do what they do better. It was disastrous for the state of california and i say that as someone in the state of missouri we received a lot of employers and workers as a result of that and i want to. 1 out to you. Her name is [inaudible] she owns and operates a trucking company, had her own benefits, everything was her decision and according to the rule she wasnt smart enough to know whats good for her. But she had a choice give up her company or work for somebody else. She chose to leave california and moved to gods country, missouri. Im glad to have her as a citizen. I will turn the remainder of my time to the gentleman of california. I wanted to give a chance to revisit your testimony from the exchange about prop 22 that was passed by 60 of california voters that we want drivers, door dash and at the base drivers to be independent workers. You were secretary of labor when this passed in 2020 and your testimony was you do not remember how you voted. Theres a lot of important issues in california. I am no longer in the government there but certainly as the acting secretary of labor it is my job to work with all states. So you stand by your statement if you do not remember how you voted on that proposition . Im eager to work with you [inaudible] thank you. Ms. Hayes you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Thank you, acting secretary for your testimony before the committee today. I hear from constituents in every sector of the economy about the workforce shortages. We need more teachers, farmworkers, nurses and engineers. I also want to thank you for your comments were earlier about the department of education and teacher apprenticeship and the teaching workforce. There is a dire need in that area. In the 117th Congress Democrats invested in Infrastructure Energy and manufacturing to address supply chain issues but we still need to train workers to perform critical jobs in these sectors. To train workers post jobs and higher every year however there is more work to be done to close the workforce gap. It is estimate the u. S. Spends about 500 million a year and individual training accounts serving about 220,000 dislocated workers nationwide through partnering with employers is a key strategies to ensure that workforce training initiatives and American Job Centers match the needs of the region. Acting secretary su how can congress scale of our programs such as career counseling American Job Centers another employer programs and additionally what has the department done to foster more corporation between employers and Training Programs . Thank you so much for that question congresswoman. As you know we have federal investment in creating a high functioning reliable Workforce Development system that trains people in their communities for the jobs that are there because this Biden Administration working with the Biden Administration jobs are coming and we take that obligation very seriously to work with states and cities and some of the most effective Training Programs are local and developed by employers and their partners. They are cant be unions or trade centers or financial cetaceans so people can get jobs in the communities and they dont have to leave their committees to find good work. We have made investments specifically in industries where we see challenges of recruiting and training the workforce and also in industries that are growing as a result of a bipartisan infrastructure law at those kinds of investments. It thank you. Im pleased to say the departments budget includes robust funding for strengthening Community College programs to build capacity in the workforce. People often overlook Community Colleges as part of Workforce Development. In my district were in the graduate partners with north or read investment to train qualified adults and dislocated workers in various programs including manufacturing childcare or Legal Services horticulture. Can you talk about how the department and congress has partnered to boost and strengthening Community College programs as part of the Workforce Development pipeline . They play an incredibly Important Role. They are partners in training partnerships and one of the partners that helps to provide whether a pre Apprenticeship Program to help them prepare someone for the workforce in the community and whether its somebody whos been in the workforce. Wants to upscale and changed jobs and improve their salary or Wages College is one way to do that and thats why we do have to strengthen the strength and committed to colleges grant where we put out 135 million to allow them to play that role in ensuring that their programs are tied to jobs in the communities where they are our friends are from. It thank you and i so appreciate that because we all know its different for everyone. For some people is hired to qishan and furthers its Workforce Development. Thank you for your commitment and connecting people to work in doing that safely appreciate your testimony today and i yield back. It thank you. You are recognized for five minutes. Act during secretary burlison to accept responsibility for the 32 billion in unemployment fraud that was under watching california. It thank you very much for that congressman. I certainly know i in many of my colleagues and others who have said in the same position that i did when the pandemic hit wish we had the system that was capable of meeting the needs. That is why in the time that i have been deputy secretary i focused on helping im sorry. Lets focus on the question was asked. Do you accept any responsibility for the unemployment fraud in california, yes or no . The insurance system that delivers in a time of prices should be the goal of everybody in california system do you accept responsibility for the unemployment fraud . Let me answer this we congressman so we are clear about what happened. Over 95 of the fraud that appears in california and across the country occurred in a program called pandemic i nestande all of that and i speculate that they are things beyond your control but do you accept any responsibility for the unemployment fraud . Like the state auditor said the reason for the fraud that occurred in the program were two things. One is the completely unprecedented spike in claims and the second was the Pandemic Assistance Program in its design did not have the same bylaws that insurance has. They were designed by a group of individuals i happen to have it right here the report. Despite repeated warnings the cdc did not bolster its fraud detection orders. You and your testimony in the senate, you said as soon as we knew that there was fraud happenings i shut the front door to that fraud. That was your testimony. As soon as we knew there was fraud happenings i shut the front door to that fraud. And the independent Auditor Report that you just cited does exactly the opposite so how do you reconcile those two things to . Im not sure, there were two reports. What you said or what you put in the essay i was talking about one of the things that was builtin to the program was im aware you make changes but is this at report wrong despite warnings . What i said when i said i shut the front door we stop the automatic backdating that meant that somebody i understand that im not asked ask about that. We are the statement from a democrat to share the Assembly Accountability review committee and she said there were simple and obvious steps submitted across the country and she said that you in particular have not done a good job running the Employment Development program and bullets as a result have millions of dollars in cause heartaches to millions of californians. Assemblywoman wrong about that . To be clear congressmen i did not run it. It. I it was labor secretary california. Several agencies billed to my priddy took responsibility for our needs. There were desperate californians were hard hit by closures in loss of a job and relied on unemployment. It so you do take some responsibility for their fraud. Say that i do. We did not delivers in the way way we hope to the delivered. The fraud the editors found was a result of spiking claims in the design of the program. Im not criticizing. The fraud and abuse theres no place for any of that. It led to steps that we had to take to shut down fraud which caused delays in claims. Is anything that you may have done differently that would have prevented the fraud . Thats why in the time ive been in office had been focused on trying to help. System that will work in the next crisis. That looking back, 32 billion issued some of money we are still paying the price for that. There anything you would have done differently a secretary . Again the system needed to work with the people who needed it and people got the benefits they needed to help them keep food on the table and help to support the economic recovery that we see now. Madam chair him out time but i would yield back in just no we have a nominee here to 32 billion in fraud in the state auditor found it was because of the performance of her department and still hesitates on the one thing she would have done differently. Mr. Stevens you are recognized for five minutes. Ms. Su is so great to see you and i want to clarify a couple of things briefly. Under your tenure at the department of labor deputy secretary im aware that 4600 new registered Apprenticeship Programs with 11,000 new employers partnering and apprenticeships have occurred you worked with the former labor secretary margaret was to help President Biden the fastest job recovering nearly 40 years a record 14. 1 million jobs since President Biden took office including 800,000 manufacturing jobs and this is something in my home state of michigan we are feeling in our home. We have record low unemployment so madam would like to salute you and thank you for your readership of a very Critical Agency during an unbelievable, unprecedented time in our nations history. Thinking about this unemployment issue, Insurance Fraud issue in california the first is this the pandemic era fraud was widespread across a multitude of states from rhode island to new york tennessee South Carolina massachusetts. California is a huge state and multiple states west of the mississippi when this country was created. Thank you for that congresswoman. We had one in five claims in the entire country and even having that their fraud rate in our system was less than that of a dozen states so thats because of measures we took to stop the fraud when we saw that it was happenings and isnt it true that 95 to 90 of fraud in california was not from the regular insurance program. Actually from a specifically creative pandemic unemployment Assistance Program and subsequent audits have proven this to be the case. That is absolute true. Is it true that the california state auditor did not find any directives or decisions you make are to californias unemployment system . That is true too. To be to be clear congress created that program and it was bipartisan to the country was dealing with an unprecedented virus and it was put forward by president who is currently under indictment by believers into the and so was created by the cares act. He signed it and acting secretary su isnt a true california actually giving benefits to people who needed them and should have received them in study by the Century Foundation found california was second in the nation in doing this . Yes thank you congress when its true. Just to clarify for the record because we lived her lot with covid 19 and what happened under President Biden and Inflation Reduction Act was signed into law and an infrastructure law we spend some money and we have seen 400 billion in capital contributions coming as a result. We are training and im from a state with the largest number of first robotic teams and i cant wait to bring you when you get confirmed to see this robotic teams. As a founder of the bipartisan bipartisan bipartisan readership at the top matters. Its going to matter a lot to my district in Oakland County that is inundated with manufacturing and leading the way for multiple multiple multitude of transformations in our auto matter automobile sector. I want to thank you for it you have accomplished at the department of labor and i cant wait free to see whats next. Thank you and i yield back. Mr. Morants recognize. Under secretary su youve heard one of my colleagues say that Leadership Matters and accountability and transparency is a large part of that and is a leader youve had to meet with your subordinates and those that you oversee and supervise and you are asked tough questions at some time. When you asked direct hard questions of those who you oversee to expect to get clear and precise answers in return . Yes, sir. And theres a benefit to that. You need to hear the answers whether they are tough or not is that true . Yes would you believe this committee has oversight responsibility over the function to perform and we ask those tough questions sometimes. So im curious why have you work so hard today to avoid giving direct answers to the tough questions of this committee . The thank you congressman. Im not trying to avoid answering questions. When i ask questions of my staff and u. S. May here expect people to give me context so i can understand the accuracy and what the answer is. Are you saying mr. Talleys questions were out of context or were not clear to you . Ive heard a lot of my colleagues asked a number of questions and you avoided most of them. Congressman im sorry you see it that way. I think youre oversight role is important in answering questions as importing and doing my very best to do that. I dont think every answer gives rise to a yes or no answer. Can you commit for the range of this hearing to give good direct answers to the questions. It ive been trying to do that the whole time ive been sitting here. Was with that commitment i will turn over the balance of my time to mr. Talley of california. Thank you. Now that we have that commitment maybe i will try again did you vote for prop 22 in california a yes or no . Congressman im sitting before you today to talk about the department of labor and i work for the department of labor and youre asking me about a vote i took at a time where we have secret ballot votes in this country and im trying to say one way or the other. I offered a little while ago to say im happy and eager to work with you on the many issues that you raise that californians face. This is an oversight hearing so i believe its relevant to our Oversight Commission and you refused a clear yes or no question that you could possibly give an answer to. It mr. Chairman it mr. Chairman a point of order. Youve asked that question several times. I want to clarify because im a person of my word. I said explicitly not every question is a yes or no question. I would give you the most Accurate Answer that i can and ive been willing to do that for as long as we have been sitting here. Back to your employer roles thats not on your agenda right now so are you not planning on doing changes under your tenure as secretary of labor . I pledge to follow all of the rules of the department of labor of this body and oversight. We will not do a rule that we havent followed the rules to do. I said from the beginning we are delivered if when it comes to his rulemaking. I didnt ask about engaging stakeholders stakeholders what a are are you planning to do any changes yes or no . We dont have a plan to do that and its not on our agenda. Say can you commit to not making any changes as secretary of labor . This is why what im saying is i commit to following all of the rules of rulemaking and everything we are required to do and i pledge that we will do it under by leadership in my tenure at the department of labor. I cant sit here at this moment to tell this moment until he withstood everything is going to happen. You were also asked by mr. Banks about the child labor crisis where he sang in your confirmation hearing a senator asked to was that communicated to the white house prior to this year . This is a major problem in your answer was i dont know the answer to that question. He said he didnt know whether that has been communicated to the white house would have problem is child labor crisis was. Do you remember now what you communicated to the white house prior to this year . That prior to this year . I will say that we have, there is an Interagency Task force that the white house put together and put labor in charge of. Im proud to play that role and its Important Role with conversations about how to address the scourge of child labor in this country. Its very important that you might have wanted to let the white house know about. Congressman fernandez is recognized. Thank you so much and i really do want to emphasize the manner in which President Biden in the Democratic Caucus and even going back to the cares act that you pointed out in a bipartisan manner has worked so hard to create so many jobs and we are so proud of it. In new mexico we have some of the lowest unemployment in history and thats the case across the country. The other important piece of it is not just have we created jobs but have we stood with workers . Its also the quality of those jobs and whether the workers are going to be able to receive the benefits, the overtime and those things that are key so that they can also prosper. There is a difference when you stand with a Corporation Versus are you standing with the worker and in many ways it sounds to me like when you are looking the independent contractor issue is about who you are going to stand with, the workers are the corporations . In a situation where a worker, a single worker is trying to make sure that their rights are protected who has the power in that situation secretary su . Thank you very much for that question congresswoman. I view my role as acting secretary of labor in the Department Secretary role that we have to, that we investigate cases and we make sure that workers feel safe reporting violations to us so we can learn about those violations and where we find them we will enforce the law including issuing citations and penalties to employers where appropriate. In some sense the department of labor is there to serve as a backstop because individual workers who might be with their overtime in an independent contractor position they need somebody to be on their side in it that sense the department of labor should be on their side. There are a lot of questions around the acting secretary su yes or no does the proposed rule implement californias law and acted . We cannot and will not and is not the loveland. We are happy to have you as secretary United States department of labor. Hardly anyone had much criticism about it even though concerns in the past. Acting secretary su is it to the department of labor has stated it not have the authority under the flsa to implement the test apps in an act of congress . That is to congressman and yesterday believe in the separation of powers and the department of labor does not have laws and instead only implements loss of the Congress Passes . Yes congresswoman. And this fearmongering about what you do and how you voted around ad five what we are talking about here is the United States department of labor. You did live in california. Acting secretary su did you serve in the California State Legislature . I did not. And who passed 85 in california . It was the california legislature. And where were you when the state law was passed . I was the secretary of labor. As secretary of labor what was your job and your requirement to do once the Legislature Passed that law . Thank you very much congresswoman. Diver saw those includes with enforcing laws passed by the legislature so our job both as labor secretary in california and the agency that oversaw to enforce the law. What we should be asking you you now in which i think you a party said it similarly the manner in which you honored your application to the constitution in california to carry out the laws. Are you committed to carry out the laws and honor an application and an oath to the constitution to carry out the United States was regarding labor . 100 yes. Thank you so very much for your dedication and your service. Service is really an act of love big is it require so much and you have taken a lot have been so gracious and diplomatic in answering the questions today. I think thank you and i yield back. Mr. Good you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you madam chairwoman and thank you acting secretary. Acting secretary said employers should be able to exercise their religious freedoms that were . I do believe them religious freedoms yes congressman. So what limits would you place on their First Amendment right as employers . Congressman youre asking me something that is outside my area of expertise but i do believe in religious freedom. You would not place any limits on employees . Congressman i dont know if youre asking about something specific to the department of labor has done. I would like to know if you are putting limits on employees about religious freedom at work . Thank you cards women. If youre referring to a rule of our agency under the office of federal Contractor Compliance program but we did there do you think religious or faithbased organization to be able to operate let me answer it this way. The department is committed to her protecting religious freedom on behalf of all americans and no one should have to choose between earning a living and practicing their religious beliefs. Good to hear that so what limits would you place on the faithbased to practice their religious freedom . I think you are asking about zero ccp. Since you reference that the department the new world they came out the weekend the Trump Administrations rules on protecting organizations right to hiring and specific is what we are referencing is your where of citibank employers First Amendment rights thank you congressman to the religious exemption is still in place. What we did in rescinding a rule of the biden mr. Shin was to restore the longstanding practice which is related to the test for religious exemptions. Excuse me there is a long place that prohibits discrimination obviously, legally prohibits discrimination or whatever they are faithbased organizations does have the right to practice in their sincerely held religious beliefs but what your role has done is try to make it easier for them to be sued on the basis of hiring if the hiring would compromise their deeply held religious belief so do you think employers have the free exercise right to hire . The religious exemption is in place and her agency is charged with enforcing authorities to protect workers from discrimination and we will faithfully apply the law on both of those. Those areas. I would say dl egregiously to participate in federal contracts unless they are willing to violate those deeply held religious beliefs so what assurances can you give that you will protect religious freedom including the First Amendment right of religious organizations dealing with federal contractors. The religious exemption is still in place and i want to be very clear about that. Lets move on you wrote an article in the seattle journal in which he said the very definition of a corporation is an entity created to permit maximum income and designed to insulate individuals that promote and perpetuate economic injustice so youre saying the companies for which you have Enforcement Authority are instruments of thank you very much mr. Congressman. I think that was from a speech maybe and without broader context i will say i have and will continue to and have for many decades worked with corporations of all sizes. Do you believe that companies are inherently unjust . No. How would you characterize your viewable corporation today based on what you said or wrote . Corporations play an Important Role and i think corporations talking about what the department of labor does they can be job creators and they can be Small Businesses and they can be large businesses. Im talking about something you said but he said latino workers view asians generally not as friends or strangers that his enemies the very source of their daily subjugation. What did you mean by that . Limited again latino workers view asians not as friendly. Enemies the source of their daily do you think latino workers view asians as enemies and the source said there im going to do my best with that. Thank to believe that asians generally quote the latino workers view asians generally not as friends or even strangers that his enemies in the daily source of subjugation. You believe asians are subjugating latino workers . I believe what i was talking about when i came to government when i worked at a Nonprofit Organization representing workers i was describing so you dont believe that . I dont believe it is a general manner. Thank you madam chairman i yield back. I would encourage you to answer mr. Goods question in writing. Thank you very much. Mr. Scott. Sorry mr. Mrvan you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you chairwoman and secretary su how are you doing . I want to thank you for coming to my district in that experience was where we were able to join the first lady and joe biden at Community Colleges because of the investment from the ministry should specifically the Renewable Energy where students were able to participate in creative future were themselves but i want to give an opportunity to talk about how the department of labor and Admission Administration is investing in jobs and thank you for joining us if you could share that with mayorga per se. Congressman thank you for your hospitality on that trip. We were there with the first lady visiting ivy tech Community College which is an example of how ineffective workforce system combines the resources who painted the two present employers with jobs and the need for skilled workers and union jobs to a Training Program that pulls from the community including in an intentional with people who are normally left out of good jobs if we dont think about about who we are for crude and who we train. That is a model for what we have been doing since ive been at the department of labor and something the department of labor would be committed to if im confirmed as secretary which is to align all the pieces of the system to meet Employer Needs and to meet the desire of job seekers and people who are in the labor market seeking to upscale for these jobs. It was a fantastic demonstration of how jobs and advanced manufacturing like some of the new Clean Energy Work thats being developed thats creating multiple opportunities not just for semiconductors and not just for things that are created that actual people to find their way into the middle class. I just want to take a minute and talk a little bit about in the very beginning of the meeting it was mentioned about the administration in unions. This is the strongest administration for union labor in the middle class uplifting the middle class and history and thats probably why its being attacked. When we go forward i think its important for us to realize that union jobs and union wages with all wages throughout every community in my district in northwest indiana its vitally important. When the frustration in the chips inside sacking components that include union labor thats lifting up america in the middle class and thats why im here in congress and hopefully thats why the administration keeps fighting for those middleclass jobs and keeps fighting to make sure we are providing a pathway for good wages, safe Work Environments Health Insurance and good pensions. If we can change it that america will be better for you. I know my district will be so i ask you to keep fighting for those and all workers and to keep in mind union labor lists all wages and lift all boats and i truly believe that an i thank you for your commitment. Thank you. Back thank you very much. I now recognize mr. James for five minutes. Thank you madam chairwoman. Madam secretary thank you for being here today. Im sure these hearings are very exhausting and i was a pilot in the army and i remember in my examination and died burchett you being here but i have important questions from my district. Franchising is one of the surest ways for americans to achieve the American Dream. As a walking recipient an result of the dream my father came up in the jim crowe south with a truck and trailer to achieve something he didnt think was possible and was able to pass a profitable business to his family. Many folks in my district around the country are able to achieve a Better Future for themselves and for their families but there is a growing concern among one of my new neighbors in Shelby Township of Franchise Owner basically shearing and appears the policies, from the deal and the Biden Administration who disrupts not just her Business Model but the franchise Business Model. The pathway for so Many Americans would be distracted. And she asked me tell you in relate to the bite mr. Chavez chavez she has a right to fully own and run her business that she sacrificed for and she need your help in protecting that American Dream. Those policies run contrary to that. If these policies are enacted specific to clear policies she fears her business will be shut down and she will cede her operational control to the federal government. We all understand exactly what seating is this to the federal government means. I would like to know so i can tell her why does it seem so often that the administrations adversarial in particular policies that cast entrepreneurs aside. Congressman thank you so much for that question. I think you can tell her that from me my family also under franchisee business. My parents went from my dads flipping than ever grant. He exchanged coins at a casino when that was still a job to do. My mom worked temporary jobs. My parents own a franchisee business doing just as you described it help them to move from insecurity to security. It was the reason why my parents were able to pay for both of my sister and me to go to college. And given your background and your personal Family Experience do you agree to Franchise Owners are Small Businesses . Absolutely. Many of them are, yes. And so given your personal experience can you commit to know more additional rulemaking . Thank you congressman. Appreciate the opportunity to have discussion the discussion about these issues because sometimes i think the top pass each other about things. There is no rule about the department of labors agenda at all. That means a commitment to no additional rulemaking on an agenda. Can i have your commitment given your familys background and your personal experience and the fact that smallbusiness owners are the pathway to the American Dream can i have your commitment today . You have my commitment to work closely with Small Businesses to make sure that what we are doing honors their struggles and honors their work. Im not asking that question directly because whatever we do its inappropriate for me to say with certainty. There are lots of things i think a commitment to the American Dream dream is worthy of a direct answer given your families experience and additional rulemaking. If i can take that back to her further commitment and youve said its not on the agenda. If you can do that Going Forward that would be great for entrepreneurs and franchises depending on this Business Model. I congressman let me put it this way i do not have plans to do that and if i did i would put on the agenda. Theres nothing on her agenda was suggest we are going to do a joint employer role. What may be causing confusion maybe i can clarify here their agencies that are not affiliated went to a confirmed there has been very little the federal government has done to engender trust among the oregon people and im looking for confirmation that you would leave that one alone so we can have have stability is folks to reduce restored the American Dream ended up like we dont have commitment. Thank you mr. James. Ms. Letlow you are recognized for five minutes. Saying thank you chairman and acting secretary for taking time to come before the committee and support in Congress Administration continue to invest in room activities such as my district. And create opportunities to help these poor simpler. We have been to benefiting like since 2001 north shore Technical Community college has hosted a highly successful Youth Build Program in the rule rural improper sharing this program has an impressive degree in a certificate rated 96 of thats above date average placement rate with many students choosing to go on to attend north shore Community College to further their education. Unfortunately the department did not award the program in the latest grant competition and its my understanding this department has been awarding grants a number of new applicants while many longstanding Successful Programs were shut out. Im extremely disappointed with this outcome as are my constituents in some of the feedback the Department Department provided on north shores application said it did not do enough to promote green jobs and share post Program Employment to give students the opportunity to collectively bargain or form or join a guinea and increased equity in apprenticeships for people of color and women. This is an conclusion because im told it that least half of the Program Participants are minorities and women. Acting secretary why did the apartment start picking its own agenda items over the original intent of the program which is providing education and Workforce Development and life and leaderships skills for a school youth and why did department not hurt ties performance metrics a successful longstanding Program Just Like the one in okaloosa . Thank you very much congresswoman. I will say in general the things that you said are consistent with how i view the need that we should support programs that prepare people and communities including Rural Communities where they may not always enjoy the investment or understand that the government is there to support them. We should use datadriven proven models and i dont have specifics on the issue that you are asking about. I do know that we have a workforce opportunity and Rural Communities grant different than the spills the specifically to invest in Rural Communities recognizing there are in different needs and some of those needs have not always been met and we be happy to make sure that you and your constituents are aware of other Grant Programs that we have. I dont have details on exactly what the program is that you are talking about. That was the feedback they received that was it was about not being able to join a union or a Green Initiative and a program has been incredibly beneficial for my district since 2001 so its devastating that they were denied this year. I want to switch gears to the change in h2 a. Effects of wage rates methodologist while increasing the wage rate for its qa workers in certain job classifications. I believe this is probably the most detrimental role that is hit louisiana agriculture in years and has created throughout u. S. Agriculture. And we see agriculture. In louisiana h2a workers who drive sugarcane trucks from the fields to the sugar mill will have their weights raised to 22. 6060 broward has almost a nine hour increase in one year. The impact of the sugar harvest drivers on what caused costs sugar farmers 37 million in original wages. The impact is the severe to many commodities in my district and across the nation and i must insist the estimated impact of the h2a wage rule of 100 million has been underestimated and will cause severe hardship for the agriculture industry. Acting secretary connectome if the department solicited meaningful incidents prior to promulgating the rules . Thank you so much for that question congressman. You are referring to the h2a program on one of its components is to make sure this isnt an adverse effect on u. S. Workers by using the program and thats what you were talking about referred to. As i sit here as a department we are very deliberative in the creation of many rules and we do engage with stakeholders to fully understand the impact of our rules to make sure we are taking account of the multiple perspectives and impacts and to make sure that we get it right. Senator claimed to have industry ever indications that there was low participation in the survey and if you asked my constituency would have known about these enormous increases in operating operating costs and putting farmers of business from louisiana. How many Agricultural Producers and it answered this survey are provided feedback. We will have to have a acting secretary some better answers to u. N. Writing. All of us would like to know the answer to that question. Thank you. I recognize Ranking Member prescott for five minutes. Thank you madam chair and ms. Su your life story is an inspiration and the announcement of your nomination it was mentioned your mother came from china on a cargo ship that she couldnt afford the fare and later in her life she talked to the president of the United States said that her daughter was going to be nominated as the secretary of the United States department of labor and a career in between is an inspiration. Now you have maintained your composure but at its core and while many try to explain what they would do the senators which they are not her challenge you on what you have done to her job production even after the administration that you belong to create more jobs than any president ial administration has been able to do in a fouryear term. They attacked your credit and they attacked your character but not the Record Number of jobs you have created and let me just say a word about the independent contractor. A lot of them said how it hurts independent contractors and i think you mentioned if you are misclassified as an independent contractor or a resident employee you arent allowed employment compensation Workers Compensation in ms. Donald trump overtime and employer contributions for Social Security and you missed out on health and pension benefits that other employees get so the employee has a lot of disadvantages being misled by their employer that benefits the classification because they dont have to pay the social Social Security tax and they save a lot of money on the other making it an unfair competition to get those classified people fairly. He talked about the joint employment rule. The only thing the franchisee the franchisees are not hurt by any joint appointment rules. They may be held responsible for what they have done by the state who employment rules although thats not on the agenda. I think it should be clarified. Could use a word about why you need more money for osha inspections . Thank you very much for that question Ranking Member scott. Our osha works to ensure that some places are safe and healthy and every worker who goes to work at the beginning begin of the day returned home. In 2021 there were over 5000 working people who lost their lives on the job and a have leased 2 million who had workrelated nonfatal injuries. These are entirely preventable and we should be doing everything we can to make sure that workers dont have to work under unsafe conditions. If you get the allocation you have requested he would be able to investigate and visit each business once in every 100 years . If you get the increased allocation can you say a word about what you are doing for your employment particularly disconnected youth . Thank you so much for that question. As we have talked about here today young people have tremendous potential to benefit from the robust economic recovery that we have had in the fact that a large number of jobs that we created will not require a College Degree so we have investments in youth across our workforce everything from apprentice programs and pre Apprenticeship Programs to use programs that will make sure young people understand we want them to succeed. Some employers want to be able to discriminate in a policy of not hiring people of a certain religion and still get a federal contract. I would hope you would do a thing you could to avoid that and could you say just a word about why its important to increase sanctions . Thank you so much for that question too. We have talked about child labor here today. What we are seeing in situations where you have really exploitation of young people and the penalties we were able to assess in that particular case had over 100 young people was about 1. 5 million. Its now widely considered not to have been enough to deter those violations so we are happy to be responding responded to requests for Technical Assistance from congress about what it might look like. And unfair labor practices and organizing . That is within the purview of the National Labor Relations Board which is a separate body from the department of labor. We dont have rules about that particular issue. Thank you madam chair and thank you so much. Testimony. And madam chair could i enter into the record several comments have been made about the child labor and as you know we sent a letter to you a few days ago to schedule a hearing on child labor abuses and i was delighted to see a colleague from indiana mention this as an issue so maybe we can Work Together and get a hearing on that. You wish to enter the letter into the record . Yes. Without objection we will do that. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] i would like to again thank our witness for taking the time to testify before the committee today. I made several, was asking the respond to questions from people at ran out of time and went overtime. And i think your staff is taking notes and our staff is taking notes so i would appreciate it very much if we could get timely responses to those questions that have been asked so that we we will try to compile something and we appreciate the commitment made today which we will certainly follow up on craig without objection there being no further business the committee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] honoring john lewis was unveiled for the ceremony in the u. S. Capital. Speakers included postmaster general lewis to joy, kevin mccarthy