but then here comes the big question for me, brother don. what is the right level of zero tolerance? i know that that's oxymoronic. but i'm saying how far do the democrats go in insisting that certain things trigger the death sentence politically? >> there's no one answer for that. you have to look at every case. >> every case. >> every case because it's different. i think there's -- >> do you think herring has to go, the a.g.? >> no. i think there's a difference between dressing up like a friend and being silly. >> that's the republican guy in florida. >> it's bad. >> you got to keep your blackface guys straight. >> if you're going to be michael jackson or a basketball player or whatever you're going to do. and i think the extreme is the kkk costume and blackface in the way that was portrayed by northam. >> so northam's got to go. herring doesn't have to go, the a.g.? >> i think it depends on how you respond to it. >> responding is also important. he gave a lousy response. i had his friend on the other night, and that was one of the things i had to push her on was,