and show that at penn state football became bigger than the institution and bigger than the rule of law and there are consequences for this. >> this is the argue hadn't that you have to punish the culture. >> right. >> because the football program became so big that it dominated and it made it i guess impossible not impossible but difficult for the administrators to disagree with -- >> i half agree with matt. look, the former president of penn state tried to fire joe paterno i think in 2004 and could not. that is a terrible situation that should never exist. you are not going to get leadership from the ncaa. if the problem is sports money then the college presidents and boards of trustees should say okay we are not going to be on tv. it has to come from the institutions. otherwise we will get more check lists. the former president says everything he told the board was in compliance with what the general counsel told him. we got compliance instead of