this case? >> yes, this is actually the most important revelation -- >> remember, he wasn't getting paid -- >> this is the most important revelation. in terms of what it could mean for the russia investigation. because we knew from the indictment that manafort was in dire financial straights as of 2016 but this trial has offered startling new details of manafort's financial collapse. by 2016, his firm was losing more than $1 million a year. they were having trouble paying their health insurance bills. he came to work for the trump campaign, as you said, for free. here's what else we know, he was in debt to a russian oligarch to the tune of $10 million. his close associate, a man named constantine kaliminik had ongoing ties to russian intelligence services according to mueller. how desperate was manafort when he was working for trump and what would he have been willing to do? that's quote this trial is raising, stephanie. >> desperate times, did they call for desperate measures? ken, thanks so much. i hope you brought a couple extra pens today.