it's very important to differentiate between that and cooperation, it sounds like from the reporting that weisselberg and pecker were compelled to testify by the prosecutors giving them immunity. that is very different than what we would normally call cooperating or being voluntarily a cooperating witness. >> the difference being if you are called in to testify and you say i'm not going to say a word, i'm going to plead the fifth, if the prosecutors then say no, we grant you immunity for everything you say you've got to talk. >> you have to talk under penalty of perjury. it's your legal duty to do so. but you can be dragged in there kicking and screaming and you will say whatever you need to say in order not to lie. >> so that's a crucial distinction. granted immunity as a sort of compelled matter versus affirmatively cooperating. >> right. what is interesting about this -- what i was getting at, i think most likely that weisselberg probably doesn't have the same criminal culpability that cohen and perhaps the president do in connection to the campaign finance fraud and pecker has this whole press exception dicey