national security professionals to prevent the president from doing grave harm to america's interests. >> so, jeremy, you have to limit the opportunities where he is able to do such a thing? >> i think you have to box him in, take documents off his desk, not tell him things, basically ignore his orders. we've seen that down the line. one of the things that chris wray, the fbi director, said over the summer at a conference that i attended, essentially we're ignoring the president when he says we should stop investigating the russia matter. >> barbara, some surrogates for the president appearing on cable news channels tonight were expressing relief over the direction the mueller talks are apparently headed. do you believe any of it regarding leaks out of the white house on the mueller talks? >> it certainly wouldn't be his first choice. written answers are certainly not preferable because you can't follow up with follow-up questions. you can't look at someone's tone or inflection or body lainguage