Including disup and downing rru. Some are confused about what defunding actually means. Kamala harris, a potential Vice President ial running mate for biden, got into an exchange over this issue with Meghan Mccain on the view yesterda. Take a look. Anything theres any rational american who doesnt think that we need to take a cold hard look at reforming our police, but there was a video that went viral over the weekend of the mayor of minneapolis being yelled at saying, yes or no question, are you for defunding the police . Im going to ask the same question. Are you for defunding the police . How are you defining defund the police . Im not for anything remotely for that, so i would ask the protesters the same thing but i assume, and again, this is something that is new to me, i assume its removing police and as congresswoman ilhan omar said, bring in a new way of governing and law and order into a community, and my understanding, again, this is something that has just come into my understanding recently is that you would not have Police Officers like this Minneapolis City Council woman said, i would be a place of privilege if someone broke into my home and i wanted to call the police. So again, we need to reimagine how we are achieving Public Safety in america, and to have cities where onethird of their entire budget is going to policing, but yet there is a dire need in those same cities for Mental Health resources, for resources going into public schools, resources going into job training and job creation, come on. We have to be honest about this. Theres not a consensus because then we would see a smarter distribution of resources in our country. So rebribt dridistributing r in our country. Is that enough . What is the real impact of defunding . And what does defunding really mean . As our show title suggests, we are getting answers and today, we get them from a respected retired judge at the superior court of california and the former independent Police Auditor for the city of san jose. Judge ladoris kordell, welcome to our show. Thank you so much. Judge cordell, you perhaps heard that exchange between Kamala Harris and also, megan mccain. Defunding does seem to mean Different Things to different people. To you, what does it mean . Well, there are really two things happening right now in policing. One is the reform and the other is just reimagining policing. The defunding means Different Things to different people but basically what it means is taking the police, keeping them as they are but taking money from their budgets to use for other things to address issues in the Community Domestic violence prevention programs, drug rehabilitation, different resources in the community. I think thats what defunding means and its a hot topic because Police Unions are absolutely opposed to taking any money away at all, so thats one part. So thats the reform part as well as you mentioned earlier, choke holds, rubber bullets, these are all things that are really designed to make policing less aggressive, less harmful to people, but there are other people who are saying, we need to do even more. So let me ask you, for the folks who suggest, lets just take some of the resources and divert them to community organizations, right, why use the word defund if that implies to other people who are listening that you want to take away all resources . Is there an alternative word that could help clarify what they mean . Yeah, so i think its not a well chosen word to explain it and im not sure what the word is, one word that says take away money from a budget or give them less money, but there is a group of police abolitionists, dismantle policing as we know it, and thats what people think when they hear defund. Take all the money, and then no more police. I think its not just a good word, what they mean is take some of the money away from the budget to use in other resources in the community. As you said, there are two Different Things were talking here. Diverting some resources and disbanding completely. I want to explore each of those options in a little more depth but first, disbanding because minneapolis, the city council there is indicating that thats kind of what they want to do and move into a totally different model. They pledged it, of course, that is where george floyd happened. Give people a sense for how that would look, can you help people imagine, what are the different models they could replace it with . Sure. So in minneapolis, they have not come up with the model. Theyre thinking about it, so theyre not immediately going to disband. They basically said they have the intention to do that. So right now, we maybe have one big example of disbanding and that was in 2013 in camden, new jersey, where the entire Police Department was shut down. Everyone was fired, all the officers, even the chief, and then the city decided to reconstitute the Police Department, so people had to apply to become Police Officers again in camden, but there was an entirely new approach, and the approach was to have Community Policing and what they meant by that is officers out of their cars, walking in communities, getting to know people, and just, there was a dramatic change in camden. One example, before this, there was 16 solve rate for murders in camden, and then once this change happened, where it was disbanded and p iutn a different fashion, the solve rate jumped to 61 and thats just one of the things. So thats one example another might be to say, just completely change the model. So we dont have officers with weapons for patrolling all the streets. Maybe there are Community People deputized to deal with nonviolent kind of things. I dont know because this is a very new thing but thats probably, these are some of the ideas being talked about. I think when you mention that if you do have that kind of police, i should Say Community presence and i know some cities, some departments use the word Community Policing, but when you have that trust thats built up, when you have the Mental Health, the social services angle, i think it resonates with a lot of people, okay, that could bring down the amount of violent crime. But to the extent that you still have a little bit of violent crime, how do you address that then from a Public Safety standpoint if you dont have a quote unquote Police Department . Right, and thats an important issue, so obviously, if somebodys breaking into my house, the first thing im going to do is call 911. So you want to have people who are trained and who can come in and protect you, so that is the challenge to those who say they want to disband. So they have to have something, because there are going to be people out there who do not have good intentions who are badly behaved but there are other things such as neighborhood squabbles or traffic stops. Theres things perhaps the community could get more involved in and perhaps, officers who are trained to use their weapons properly would maybe be the backup. Im not sure, but again, this is important because weve never been at this place in this country where weve even used the words of reimagining policing in communities. Right now, police, at least in urban settings and in communities of color are seen as occupiers. The scene is people to be afraid of, to be fearful of, and that is what the big complaint is and that just has to change. So people are saying instead of just these reforms, maybe we need to look at the bigger picture. I do want to ask you if youve seen any studies that might point to if we have fewer guns on the streets, possessed by citizens, could that potentially impact whether or not we need police or whether police may be less inclined to use their weapons. Have you seen studies . We know, for example, in other countries where the gun culture is not like it is here in this country, that police dont have the big issues we have here. Youve touched on a very controversial issue. Weve had the president in the white house say to people, Second Amendment. Hes always asserting that and telling people, keep in mind, we need this gun culture and our guns. America is really unique in that area. Do i believe there would be less violence, fewer killings if we had a change in the gun culture . Absolutely. How do you change that . When you start first with the law and the United StatesSupreme Court interpreted the Second Amendment such that everybody has a right to have guns without any prohibition. I think its wrong and im hopeful that one day, the court will realize theyre wrong and reverse that decision. All right, judge cordell, well take a short break on the air right now but i want to continue this conversation with you over on our livestream platforms and well start to dive into, what does reform look we are back now with retired judge of the superior court of california, ladoris cordell. When we were in break and on facebook, we started to talk about how to change Police Culture because you can do things like say no more rubber bullets like san jose mayor liccardo is saying or governor newsom, not training new officers to use choke holds, okay, but how do you go about changing the culture, right . What needs to happen in terms of the training . Right. So you just recited reforms. There are things that will maybe make people safer, no rubber bullets, no choke holds, but there is the bigger problem. These are baby steps, but there is this culture in policing, and one example, the officer had his knee on George Floyds neck. Actually looked up and saw someone recording him and his response was to push his knee harder into the neck of george floyd. So he did that because he didnt believe there would be any consequences for his conduct. Thats the culture. So to get a cultural change, weve got to take a deeper look and it isnt, in my view, these reforms. Theyre important to just kind of, if were going to keep policing as it is, but i have a real concern. We have this big industry thats now developed with bias training. So has it worked in my view . No. What it has done is, you know, maybe there are some officers who get it, but theres still people, officers using Excessive Force out there who have undergone the training. So there has to be something more, so im hoping that people understand that its this issue. This is why people in the streets, not just policing, its systemic racism that has been with us for 401 years since 1619 that permeated every institution in this country including policing. So looking at policing, in my view, we need to completely reimagine, kind of dismantle things and see how we can put them together to do two things, that can protect community, and also result in people not being harmed by those who were supposed to serve and protect us. So, you know, one way to do it, obviously, and its only table is to dismantle that system. Another is to say what if you become part of the system, and to that end, do you encourage people of color, young people of color to consider going into policing or law . Or do you think if they go into that system, the system changes them and they get aculture because you cant fight the system. You can reimagine police and be involved in the system. I dont see them as two separate things. For me, i decided to become part of the system when i became a judge. So for 20 years, i was part of the system and i know, for example, the criminal Justice System and i dont even like to call it justice, but that system is broken in so many ways, and yet, i determined if im going to be a part of it, ill do all i can to try to make it better, so absolutely, it is important that there be women, people of color who are involved in this process, who are trying to make things better. We need more women, we need more people of color to be prosecutors, to try to, again, fix the broken system, and again, now im talking about just the criminal Justice System and thats, you know, separately talking about policing. So i dont see them as two Different Things. If you dismantle, you take it apart, then you figure out how to put it together in a better way, in a way that better protects everybody and keeps everyone safe. And we all should be involved in that. I was going to say, and do you think theres one model that would fit all or do you think each city with its own demographics and history would have its own model . So you bring up a very good point and i tend to believe that because there are 18,000 different Police Departments with their own turf, their own jurisdictions, that, no, there isnt one thing, but i will tell you, there are things that the federal government can do, which is to say, you know, we dont want rubber bullets, we dont want choke holds. The national, the federal government cant order these 18,000 separate departments to do anything, but they can give them incentives by saying we will give you grants or we will take away funding if youre getting any from the federal government. There are ways to get these various departments to do these kinds of things and its common sense. Why would you not want to prohibit choke holds . I cant come up with a reason. All right, we have about a minute and a half left. And i do want to shift gears a little bit because i want to touch on a park. This week, youre also in the news because you put your name to a petition to increase access to a park in palo alto and this is not unrelated because it is part of the social equity conversation. So tell us about that park. Sure, Foothills Park is probably the only park, maybe in california, where access is limited only to residents of palo alto. So that means, if you dont live in palo alto, president obama, anna eshew cannot go unless youre accompanied by someone from palo alto park. Its exclusionary and criminal punishment. If you try to access and youre not a resident, then you can be charged with a misdemeanor and prosecuted and convicted. So this has been the case for years and years, and theres some of us in palo alto who have been pushing and pushing to say, stop this. Its basically, we dont want outsiders to come into our little enclave. That needs to stop. Its all part of, again, what people are protesting about. This whole systemic, and i believe it is linked directly to racism, keep out black people from coming in from east palo alto, keep the latinos away to ruin our park. I believe that was the mindset. Weve got to change it. Were on a roll now and we hope that the city council will have the courage to say, this is ridiculous, we need to stop and lift the restriction on access to the park. All right. Judge ladoris cordell, thank you for opening our eyes in so many ways in this short conversation. Really appreciate it. Hopefully you and i can take a walk in that park someday soon. There you go. Thank you. Well talk with abc7 news contributor phil matier about contributor phil matier about new federal charges a revers people think that the bank takes your home, but that is not true. Thats absolutely 100 wrong. The home is ours. We can sell it if we want to at any time. I like the flexibility of not having a payment, but i can make the payment if i want to. Youre responsible for keeping up your property taxes and youre responsible for paying your insurance on the property. For us, it was a security blanket. The value of our house, was to fund our longterm health care. These are just a few uses of reverse mortgages. Or go onlineo request your free information kit. Without a doubt, one of the best financial tools ive learned about. Everybody should be taking a look at it. 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Its pretty basic, almost like a friendly family situation, if you wat to put it that way. Only it turned out to be not too friendly for the taxpayers or the fbi. What were talking about is Mohammed Nuru and long time girlfriend, sandra, who heads the citys fixit department. Fixit department is basically like with the department of public works and other agencies, they go around and fix problems in the neighborhoods. Youve got a problem with the sewers, this or that, they help fix it. She was also fixing a few things for a long time boyfriend Mohammed Nuru. The fbi said she laundered about 135,000 in payments from contractors doing business with the city of San Francisco through her Bank Accounts and then used part of the money for herself, mohammed and to help pay for a Vacation Home that Mohammed Nuru and still has in kalusa county. What theyre talking about here is the dpw. Sort of headmaking friends with contractors, doing favors for contractors, checking out city contracts to them, getting them inside information on city contracts, but one of them was for Asphalt Company on the port property that would supply asphalt for the city and in return, not directly, necessarily, they did favors for him. The fbi said that is called bribery. So nick, the owner of the restaurant, didnt he get a deal from prosecutors . Whats he going to bring to the table . He was arrested earlier with mohammed because the feds initially got on to him on to hm in San Francisco, attempting to bribe a or thought of bribing, conspired to bribe a commissioner to get a restaurant lease out at the international airport. Theyre pretty lucrative affairs out there. They make some good money and nick was trying to get it for him and a couple of other people that turned out to be undercover informants for the fbi. Mohammed nuru has been cooperating with the feds and the San Francisco citys attorney office. Nick bobas was charged. We dont know what he said but the arrests stem from the conversations and the evidence that the feds picked up between 2014 and about 2018. So this is all part of an ongoing, and its kind of like, you know, the fingers of a hand spreading out. It starts with the picking up of Mohammed Nuru and nick boba nica then expands into past contracts theyre all circling around and connecting the dots to, and it could result in some healthy time for all of them. How high do we think this goes and how wide does it go . I mean, already, there are hints from the prosecutors that there could be more names. Come forward now. I think its going wider because i went through the Court Documents on this and from what ive heard around city hall, Mohammed Nuru did favors for a lot of people and one contractor who was part of this investigation, a female contractor down in hillsborough who allegedly gave him a 40,000 rolex watch. So how common place was that . How many people were going to city hall, knocking on nurus door getting favors in return for gifts, but the question is, as you pointed out, it goes further but does it go up . Does it into the Mayors Office or other parts of City Government . Now, in some ways, its already touched in the Mayors Office because it turns out that about 20 years ago or so, Mohammed Nuru dated now mayor london breed when she was a city hall worker and staffer and in recent years, helped her out when car was in trouble and gave her 5,000 with rental cars and trying to get her car fixed, which is not the best look for the mayor which brings this all up, anything else going on . So far, no proof of anything else. En stay tuned, well see. Soap opera. Always another chapter. Starring the city of San Francisco. Thanks, phil. Take a short break but continue this conversation on air. In the meantime, and we are back. Thats going to do it for todays edition of our interactive show, getting answs. Pefuy feel like you got some answers when it comes to Defunding Police departments and what that actually means. Well be here every day at 3 00 on air and on live stream answering your questions, so join us every day. Have a good one. Tonight, the stirring words inside this houston church. The funeral for george floyd. His family, many dressed in white, heartbroken, in tears, his daughter gianna among them. Former Vice President joe biden, and his message to that little girl. The reverend al sharpton calling on families to stand one by one, their names now known. Families whove lost loved ones to police. Nfl star j. J. Watt, from the houston texans, among those paying tribute. George floyd laid to rest next to his mother. And tonight, our interview with another mother, Ahmaud Arberys mother, wanda. Shes here houston. Her message to so many in america tonight. Also thisg, the newly released videos of deadly force. From austin, texas, to oklahoma city. A driver in austin accused of failing to dim his