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199. The honorable Hakeem Jeffries of the state of new york has received 212. [laughter] trumps pick to lead the house goes down again. No amount of election denying is going to take away from those vote totals. Tonight, the excruciating failure of the maga candidate, the democratic push for a bipartisan solution, and what we know about a timeline for a resolution. The time for democracy in our country that an insurrection was rejected by the republicans again, as their candidate for speaker. And tensions soar in The Middle East after that deadly hospital blast. There is new hope for humanitarian aid flowing into gaza, as the president meets with families of hostages in israel. The call for caution continues. Justice must be done. While you feel that rage. Dont be consumed by it. One all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. Today, republican congressman jim jordan of ohio is even further from being speaker of the house than he was yesterday. In a second floor vote, jordan ended up with 199 supporters, a net loss from yesterdays tally, as paul cain of the Washington Post noted, jordan sent a modern record. Nice work, jim. Earning the lowest vote tally for a majoritys nominee to be speaker. Now, jordan did pick up three new supporters today, but he lost four members who flipped away from him this time around. In total, 22 republicans voted for someone other than jordan and he can only afford to lose for. So, the congressman from ohio has a lot of work ahead of him if hes going to convert enough votes to win the gavel. Jordan is not giving up. Tonight, he told reporters, the house will vote again tomorrow afternoon, and will keep voting as long as necessary. Mr. Jordan, is the plan to vote tomorrow . Yeah. We [inaudible] how many rounds are you going to do this . [inaudible] but is it going to be you . [inaudible] in the an, the house remains paralyzed on its 15th day without a speaker. The longest vacancy of more than half a century and that last gap in 1971 only occurred because Congress Actually convened rather late in january. Of course, we are stuck in the current debacle because of the fundamental deepening chaos in the House Republican caucus. At this point, it really does feel like theyre a Mental Malfunction Roomba vacuum cleaner, hopelessly stuck in the corner, ramming into The Wall Over and over again, its sensors have gone haywire. But they keep going, i mean, the current path is pretty clearly not working. Jim jordans 18 votes away from majority. The thing is, not exactly a unifying figure. Hes an extreme farright flutter and the politics are voting for someone like that are not going to change in 24 hours from the people that hold out from voting for him and are in vulnerable seats. Now, the Pressure Campaign to bully those members into voting for him, from jordan, from donald trump, from fox news, has not worked. It has failed so far. If the Republican Party does not want to keep ramming into the wall, embarrassingly, in front of the entire nation of the world over, and over, and over again, they need to change direction. They can find someone else to be the nominee for speaker, although choosing a nominee at the caucus can get behind, obviously, easier said than done, as we are seeing. Or they could compromise with democrats. It would only take five republicans meeting with democratic leadership to craft some sort of deal and elected Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to the speakership. Or if they dont like that, which they probably dont, choose someone else, even a republican, under some kind of agree to power sharing pact. So far, they dont seem willing to do that. Another option that some people have been flipping would be to expand the role of the temporary speaker, Patrick Mchenry. At the moment, under the current house rules, his powers are essentially ministerial. Basically limited to gaveling in and out until a permanent speaker is elected. But the New York Times reports, republican david joyce of ohio has been circulating a bipartisan plan that would give mchenry the power to run the house floor through early january. Members of the bipart problem solvers caucus, made up of senator leading members from both parties have also been involved in talks. Two former house speakers, interestingly, Newt Gingrich and john boehner, endorsed the plan last night. Now, to be clear, first of all, no one even knows how this would work precisely. That would change rules. Elevating mchenry would be completely unprecedented, as far as anyone can tell. It also would not solve the underlying problem of Republican Party set on sowing chaos, as Hakeem Jeffries laid out this afternoon, after a Democratic Caucus meeting. Can you talk to me about the point of this caucus meeting . Is it just to take the temperature on mchenry . There are two things that were important for us to accomplish this week. First, stop jim jordan, who is a Clear And Present Danger to our democracy and the poster child for republican extremism. The second is to reopen the house, so we can do the business of the american people. And our preference is to reopen the house in a bipartisan way, so we can govern in an enlightened way, moving forward. Does that mean mchenry is the path . This conversation will not be about any one individual because we are concerned about two things, the institution of the congress and the best interests of the american people. Ive got to say, the Patrick Mchenry plan speaks so perfectly to the trajectory of the Republican Party. Back in 2005, mchenry was a freshman congressman. He was a firebrand, one of the furthest right members of the party. He was profiled in magazines as such. 18 years later, mchenry is being floated as the institutional savior to rescue the republicans from their latest iteration of hard right rebels. And this time around, that faction is so dangerous to american democracy and so strong within the Republican Party, they are threatening to bring the entire institution down on their own heads. Nbc news capitol correspondent ryan nobles joins me now with the latest. Ryan, i mean, you dont want your second vote to go backwards. What do they do now . Great question, chris. I really do not know what the next step is and it seems, at least at this stage, where we are right now, at 8 00 eastern on wednesday night, that jim jordan is prepared to plow ahead. He has been given us every indication that hes going to attempt tomorrow to bring another vote to the floor. His aides tell me that he is working to try and win over these 22 people that voted against him, trying to hold on to the group of 199 republicans that voted for him, and just play this out as long as it takes, you know . His louder supporters here on capitol hill, i will point out that Kevin Mccarthy required 17 rounds to become speaker of the house. So, this would only be around three for jim jordan and there is no reason to stop now. But there is a lot of fundamental differences between the experience Kevin Mccarthy had and the one that jim jordan finds himself in. First of all, the most obvious being that Kevin Mccarthy had a period of time after republicans won the majority, up until the speaker vote. There are a couple of months there where he had the opportunity to whip votes. Jim jordan hasnt had that luxury. And also, the fundamental reasons behind why people are opposing jim jordan are very different than the ones for the reasons that people oppose Kevin Mccarthy. And they are not all the same. If you talk to the republican delegation in new york, they have very different concerns than those that supported Steve Scalise and were upset that Steve Scalise was unceremoniously booted from his opportunity to get a vote on the floor. So, all these fundamental problems make it very difficult to see a path for jim jordan to become the next speaker of the house and if you talk to some of these holdouts, i was in a gaggle earlier with steve womack who said, he believes that there are going to be more people that vote against jim jordan if it comes to the floor again. So at this point, i really dont know what the path is for jim jordan or for that many matter, any republican, in becoming the next speaker of the house. I heard that is well from steve womack, a few others that basically, theres a deliberate strategy here for some of the people that do not want jordan to vote for him in early rounds and actually switch against him, precisely to create a direction, the wrong direction to send a signal. This is what john rutherford, whos also opposed to jordan, said. Its time for representive jordan to understand there is this race is over. I suggt u either go to conferences showman back to the floor to show it in public. Filling while the world is on fire, so that no votes want successive votes over and over, to sort of make this clear. So, as of now, were going to come back and try this again tomorrow, that is the plan . Well, i want to be clear, chris. Nothing is scheduled, right . At this point, the only thing that we have heard is a warning, i guess, to members of congress to be prepared to vote as soon as noon tomorrow. Now, that does not mean that a vote is scheduled. It just means that theyre holding out the right to vote at around noon, then nothing is going to happen before noon tomorrow. So, theres a lot that could happen here over the next 12 hours, you know . Maybe jim jordan does get that Reality Check and, you know, what i think is interesting about this, and i think its important to point out to your viewers, is that the jim jordan strategy here was that he knew that he didnt have enough votes to start. But what he expected, what many of us expected, was that when they went to the house floor, these moderates are more Establishment Republicans is probably a better way to describe them, would cave under the pressure of the institution, crumbling. That they would blink, essentially. That isnt whats happening. In fact, their position is getting stronger. So, if that was his only path to the speakership, its not clear what, where he goes from here, if thats not going to work. Right, ryan nobles, thank you so much, ryan, for your reporting tonight. Congressman pete aguilar is a democrat in california. He served on the january six committee, hes now chair of the house Democratic Caucus and leadership, and he joins me now. Congressman, i know that you, obviously, folks in the democratic side are not being, you know, the plan here, this is sort of a partisan affair or has been up until now. Do you have an understanding of what tomorrow will bring . Well, im learning from ryan nobles there to. We know what has been made public, which is we may have votes tomorrow and that jim jordan is dead set on making his colleagues vote. And just as the reporting has mentioned, and we are, you know, were feet from the House Chamber right now, and he keeps losing votes. He cannot count to 217. And so, you know, we are in this position, in this holding pattern, because jim jordan is the most extreme member of that side of the aisle. He is the leader of the insurrection caucus over there and its just terribly unfortunate that this is the position that we are in, and that republicans have elevated. I just think it says a lot about the group that 199 of them still say, yeah, that is our guy. You have made of some sort of bipartisan resolution. Hakeem jeffries, Minority Leader, has. But i cant tell if this is, like, rhetoric or you are seeing, it would be nice, or is there any active conversation, plan, back channels happening right now with any republican members about some bipartisan resolution . There are always active conversation with members on the other side of the aisle. After 15 days without a speaker, i would hope that there are conversations happening, and i know that they are. And so, you know, our hope is leader jeffries laid out our first primary responsibility this week was to make sure the head of the maga circus, jim jordan, did not become speaker or second objective is to make sure that we open up the peoples house, so we are having conversations, private conversations, with our colleagues to make sure that that happens. They control the votes here. And so, its up to them to see what the path forward looks like, but this is more than just, you know, empty rhetoric and talking points. This is a real desire to want to make this place function, make the congress, make the House Function again, and to make sure that we are caring about other peoples business, because we have such urgent priorities. We have to make sure we avoid government shutdown, we have to make sure we are providing aid to israel and ukraine. Those are the things that, by the way, have 300 votes plus in congress. Lets just make sure that we have an opportunity to deliver for the american public. Yesterday or i think it was yesterday, maybe the day before, Hakeem Jeffries explicitly reference the current speaker Patrick Mchenry as someone that he respected, that democrats respect. There is clearly some plan being circulated to extend the powers of the speaker pro tem, you know, through the end of january to basically run the house like the speaker. It was interesting to me that both Nude Gingrich and john boehner endorsed that plan, not that they have any say in it, either way. What do you make of that . What do you think of it . Well, this is not just about one person. I think a lot of us have respect for Patrick Mchenry and how hes trying to conduct himself, and organize this election that cant be an easy job that he was elevated to. You know, our primary responsibility is to make sure that the House Functions. So, its not about one person. We will wait to see if a republican introduces a resolution to do that. Ive read the public reporting that you have as well, but the details matter. For house democrats, the language of these policies and proposals matter, and so, we will see what it says. Can i ask . This is, like, super in the weeds and you may not know, and i dont know if anyone knows. But how does that even work under the rules . Like, are the rules that every recess, you come back and vote for speaker . Or can someone introduce a resolution . Like, i dont even actually understand, procedurally, this liminal space in which you currently exist. Sure. Potentially, this could be, right now, the highest order of business is electing a speaker. And so, someone could offer a privilege resolution to move to an election, just like elise to phonic as done to have the republicans nominate jim jordan again, or someone else could offer a resolution that does this. And there is precedent for it. There used to be a speaker pro tem designated, at times, when the speaker was out of session for a week or month, that has not been done for us since the 90s. But that individual would function just as the speaker does for a limited time period, until a speaker came back from vacation. And this is, you know, precedent from years ago. All right, congressman pete aguilar, thank you very much. Thank you. Claire mccaskill is a former democratic senator of missouri. Tim miller, a former rnc spokesman, now writer of they join me now. Clare, you have seen a lot in politics, but i will, in my political career, have truly never seen anything like this. It really does, they do seem stuck. Am i miss reading . What do you think . Oh no, they are stuck. And by the way, this is a plot that the people would laugh at that was pitch to somebody in hollywood. I mean, lets take a wide lens here. We are talking about a handful of extremists troubling a speaker out over the objection of 90 of the Republican Party. Then they gather and vote secretly to nominate a new speaker. That guy gets one vote and then the radical extremists say, im sorry, you dont get any more votes, we are done, you are out. We are going to put our radical extremists in their. And by the way, it radical extremist who doesnt play well with others, chris. And they all know this. Hes never passed a bill in 16 years. Can you imagine . Being in congress 16 years and never managing to get a bill across the finish line . Because he just likes to blow stuff up. So, and then he recruits a Cable News Star on their network, sean hannity, to be his whip. And whip votes, and go after the holdouts with hammer and tongs. And that clearly, i mean, i dont know where they found their backbones, but there clearly 20 odd republicans have found a backbone today, and i have a feeling that number will be bigger tomorrow. Yeah, that number bigger tomorrow, its like you say stop, its like when youre trying to get a car out of the mud or the snow and you can see that its getting worse. Like, youre wearing down further into the mud. I feel like that little sense of panic as i watch this, sort of threw osmosis. And here is something thats much less funny, but part of this has well, tim. An undercover, underappreciated aspect of the forces of conformity towards the maga wing of the party is the fear of violence and threat, and disruption to life. Even if its not violence, its like, the security youre going to have to get and all of that. Representative Mariannette Millermeeks of iowa reported that after voting against jordan, shes received credible Death Threats and a barrage of threatening calls. Other people have talked about, i think, don bacons wife talked about getting people threatening her, not physical violence, but threatening her. What do you think of that dynamic . What does it mean as this kind of hinge point for this to be playing a role in this vote, one way or the other . Yeah, it is real. In this case, it seems to have backfired, which is encouraging and i think its good that these members, republican members, spoke out. You know, before its sort of started to spiral out of control. You may remember the impeachment vote. There have been reports of several members saying privately that they, you know, told adam kinzinger, Anthony Gonzales, or others who voted for that they didnt vote for second impeachment because they were worried about their security. And Anthony Gonzales Left Congress because of his concerns over security. The republican from ohio voted to impeach trump in the second impeachment. So like, there have been real consequences from this domestic, these domestic terror threats, and then theres just the plain old bullying that you see from the maga media, you know . Encouraging people to call into these folks. So, i do think that this is having an impact, but so far, its backfiring a little bit on jim jordan. I think some of that is because of the inter personal thing and they dont have the specter of trump really hanging over this, he endorsed jordan, but he isnt pushing his own people. That might bring a different level of intensity to this, but i agree. Nobody has 217. So, like they can bully, they can threat, and the reality is theres just no member that has 217, and just one thing that a point of personal reference listening to rap aguilar, i think that democrats should be all these guys out, right . Mchenry, you know, without serious concessions from mchenry, i dont think he wants this job, by the way. Why would you . I dont think they will have them anyway. No, i mean, i think any votes, i think that democrats are savvy enough that there will be some sort of formalized power sharing agreement, right . It wouldnt just be like okay, that is fine. Theres also, you know, to ryans point at the top of the show, clear, there are different factions within the 21 votes, but one thing if we put up the republicans not voting for jim jordan, there are a few here i think that, you know, mike lawler, anthony desposito, andrew garbarino, nick lalota, like, those are those new york Biden District folks where, you know, the basic political gravity does seem to be applying, even if it doesnt apply to most of the caucus, clear. That, like thats just a brutal vote for those people who dont want to lose their job and want to be reelected, right . Absolutely and keep in mind, chris, 12 members of congress that were elected from districts that went for joe biden voted in favor of jim jordan. And they now have that vote. You cant take it back they already did that you cant take it back and think of what Jim Jordan Encapsulates in a Biden District. You know, national ban on any abortions, no gun safety, wants to fill around with medicare and social security, refuses to say that donald trump lost the election. I mean, this is a guy that you can really use effectively against those 12 members. And you know, ive got to say, the split screen at this moment, i know im a little biased here, but the senate, down the hall, the senate is working in a bipartisan way to put together an a package for israel, taiwan, the southern border, and ukraine. And the republicans are sitting down with the democrats and fashioning this piece of legislation. It is possible to do this. They just have to break the fever of crazy in the house. Tim, that vote, which is just one of those votes. I mean, that seems like a bad vote from those folks, those 12 that claire mentioned. You dont get anything out of it and youve got to wear it in the next election. I dont think anyones really paying super close attention right now, but they will make sure in that reelection. Yeah, theyre making all these guys walk the plank over and over again. You know, they have rights to democratic their writing the democratic ads for them and i think theres been, i think it was tom coal that made an insightful point that said, like, this fight is all about the political interests of the safe members, right . Like, trying to make sure they dont Get Primaried from somebody even crazier on the maga right. They are just hanging the other members out to dry. Claire mccaskill and tim miller, thank you both, appreciate it. Coming up, as President Biden trails traveled to israel and called for more aid to gaza, we will go live to the israel, gaza border for the latest on the ground. That is next. O the ground that is next that is next my skin has been so much smoother so much more hydrated. Its olay with Olay Hyaluronic body wash 95 of women had visiblybetter skin. 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Hamas does not represent the Palestinian People. Palestinian people are suffering greatly as well. They mourn the loss of innocent palestinian lives like the entire world. I was outraged and saddened by the enormous loss of life yesterday in the hospital in gaza. An unknown number of people were killed in that explosion yesterday at the hospital in gazaity. According to nbc news, a spokesman for the Palestinian Health ministry he Israeli Defense forces had targeted the hospital for bombing. Hamas also blamed israel. Israel says the hospital was hit by a misfired rocket from Palestinian Militants in the Group Islamic jihad. Today, President Biden backed up that assertion, citing u. S. Preliminary intelligence. But i have to say that we at nbc news are not able to confirm either version of events. We just dont know. It is clear, though Crystal Clear and this is well confirmed, that the humanitarian situation in gaza is very, very bad and getting worse. Israel has blocked the entry of food, water and fuel since the early days of the conflict. They have been running now without power. Water pumps not working. Today, President Biden pledged 100 million in aid to the territory and its refugees, and confirmed to reporters that egypt will now allow the flow of some aid across its borders. But as of right now, it is unclear when that border will open. As one palestinian scientist sheltering in gaza told nbc news, that help is desperately needed. People in you win u. N. Schools are really suffering 3000 plus palestinians have been killed. The latest thats 1000 of those have been children every hour there is news of people being bombed in their homes and dying. And families on mass. In response to that ongoing violence, hundreds of protesters marched in the streets of d. C. Today, and outside the capital, demanding a ceasefire in gaza. At least 300 of them were arrested after occupying the Cannon House Office building. A similar protests demanding a cease fire unfolding this very hour in cities like chicago, and st. Paul, minnesota. There have also been calls for rapid action to save the people who were kidnapped in israel. The hostages. It is estimated there are still, as of this hour, roughly 200 hostages being held by hamas in gaza. Today, President Biden assured their families the u. S. Will do everything in its power to ensure their safety. Those who are living in limbo, waiting desperately to learn the fate of a loved one, especially to families of the hostages, you are not alone. I cant speak publicly about all the details. But let me assure you. For me, as american president , there is no higher priority than of all these hostages. Nbc news Correspondent Ellison Barber joins me now from the gaza israel border. Its been quite a day there, ellison. What have you been learning and who have youve been talking to . We spoke to some people who are inside of gaza tonight about President Bidens visit to israel, and about the news that there is an agreement, at least between israel, egypt and the United States to allow aid to cross into gaza via the sole Land Crossing that goes into a place that is not israeli territory, into egypt. And there was immense frustration from people inside of gaza. One person we spoke to, he said, he was disgusted by President Bidens visit. And in terms of that humanitarian aid, he said, number one, he will believe it when he sees it, and number two, he said, thats not what they want. Listen. If you could speak to President Biden about this current situation, what would you want him to know. I want him to know that i feel disgusted comforted the families of the victims and talked so passionately about them, and about israel, the friendship to israel. The same country that has been oppressing us, killing us for 75 years. Of course, humanitarian aid is desperately needed. However, this will happen on the ground, i dont know. As a palestinian living in gaza, as a citizen of i honestly dont give a damn about we want this violence to stop. President biden should focus his effort on that and not that man and his family there, they are originally from gaza city. Thats where they live. They evacuated south. He has a nine year old daughter and a sixyearold. They are staying in a house with a bunch of other families, where everyone is sheltering. There is one room where 22 children are sleeping, piled in there together, because it is the closest thing they could get that to something that would be safe. He told me his oldest daughter, she turned 93 days ago, and the other children staying where they are found little packaged cakes like, Hostess Type Cakes and put a candle in it for her so she could celebrate her birthday. He said, aid is desperately needed. He sent us lines of people in gaza just waiting for a piece of bread. They have to go fill buckets with that water enable order to be able to flush the toilet. But he said, think about the situation here. Roads have been bombed out. There is a fuel shortage. So, even if that aid is allowed to cross, how is it going to get to people who really need it . We have to remember that when we are hearing these discussions, its not just egypt, israel and the United States who have to allow to agree aid inside, there are people on the other side of the Rafah Crossing that also have to say that this is going to be okay for it to get in. So far, that Border Crossing has not been open. President biden told reporters traveling back with him on air force possibly thursday or friday, but people inside of gaza say, well, there was this time a few days ago, where we were told that aid was going to be allowed in and for nationals were going to be allowed out. And it did not happen. So, they dont have a lot of confidence that also feel like that is really just scratching the surface surface of the problem. And they wanted to see a more robust discussion about the decades of conflict and the decades of disagreement over this area of territory. At the same time, there are people inside of israel right now who are so frustrated that this next phase of war, a possible Ground Assault into gaza, has not started yet. They have seen videos of israeli civilians being brutally murdered. There are those hostages you mentioned that most families know nothing about right now. And the people who are believed to be abducted inside of gaza right now, among them are children. Some believed to be as young as nine months old. I spoke to someone in israel yesterday, who is in the idf, and he is from this area. I asked him if he knew anyone who was killed or hurt in the massacre that took place on october 7th. And chris, he almost winced when i asked, and he almost whispered, and said, yes. Im 32 years old. Me, and other take us, but let the elderly, let the women and children go. There is so much pain here and President Bidens visit, while significant inside of gaza, it does not seem like it was well received at all. Chris . Ellison, thank you very much for that comprehensive, fantastic reporting. I really appreciate it. Still to come, as israel prepares that sustained Ground Invasion of gaza, the case that a sustained confrontation is a goal for hamas. Hamas ive got Symptom Relief Control of my crohns means everything to me. Control is everything to me. Feel significant Symptom Relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer Bowel Movements at 4 weeks. Skyrizi is the first and only il23 inhibitor for crohns that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. The majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. 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So please call or go online to myaclu. Org to become a guardian of liberty, today. Get help reaching your goals with j. P. Morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. Use it to set and track your goals, big and small. And see how changes you make today. Could help put them within reach. From your first big move to retiring poolside and the other goals along the way. Wealth plan can help get you there. J. P. Morgan wealth management. We are connected to humanity. And was Palestinian American or a muslim. He was a human. We must rise higher then those people who propagate hatred. Our voices must be louder and more powerful and together we must strive towards the fundamental american principles of dignity, respect, and inclusion for all. Hundreds of people gathered for a vigil last night in the sixyearold child killed, prosecutors say, because he was Palestinian American. A 71yearold man is now in custody. His wife told police that he, quote, listens to conservative talk radio on a regular basis, and has been heavily interested in the events that have recently occurred in israel. Cordach saturday morning he confronted his tenant, a 32yearold palestinian woman, berating her over what was going on in jerusalem. He stabbing him 26 times. Tensions are high across the country right now, with sickening echoes of the months following 9 11. The department of Homeland Security official tells nbc news it is monitoring a, quote, heightened threat environment, but the intensity has gotten worse. The nypd said it is on high alert rest of this week. In Southern Brooklyn last wednesday, police say a group attacked three young men as they ate takeout food, counting it is lemon if palestine at the victims. He Imitation Firearms at a local synagogue. Elsewhere in new york, police are accused of attacking a sikh person trying to remove his turban homeowners with israeli flag and San Francisco antisemitic messages were left on windows, along market street. In these times of stress and fear it is, of course, vitally important to remember the real test of any society is to have no tolerance for hatred of any in its forms hatred and rage and exactly what hamas thats next. Next. More sustainable ways of doing things. Americas plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating Plastic Products that are more recyclable. Durable. And dependable. Our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. For a better tomorrow, were focused on making plastics better today. The virus that causes shingles is sleeping. In 99 of people over 50. Its lying dormant, waiting. And could reactivate. Shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. And it could wake at any time. 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Make them inflict damage on themselves, which the Insurgent Group would not be capable of doing. We experienced that with 9 11, which Bush Administration went nuts and invaded iraq, and did lasting damage of the United States and every way. So, they got their way. In this case, i think it is clear hamas wants israel, first of all, to come back into the gaza strip, so that they could have close quarter urban combat, which really favors guerrillas over regular forces. Yeah, that last point, i mean, Osama Bin Laden and the writings of folks and alqaeda, it was clear that this kind of Blowback Effect is what they were doing. And of course, the spectacle, i mean, joe biden today referred 50 9 11s. The sheer rage and grief of the spectacle of the slaughter at the Music Festival and, you know, the phone calls at 9 11. Like, it incites, understandably, a society. This is the purpose, this is exactly the intention, because these groups like hamas or alqaeda, other groups in the past, the mao mao, the indian rebellion, et cetera, they know they cant inflict the kind of damage on the dominant power that the dominant power can do when it is induced to behavior rationally. And i think there is also a broader plan on the part of hamas to get the fighting to spread into the west bank and east jerusalem, to bring the holy places in play, then get hezbollah involved, maybe and others, as you are just mentioning. Irans threats of a broader or. The way they do that is to get the israelis to go so far in gaza that it inflames the streets all over The Middle East, especially in the west bank, especially in jerusalem, and pressure comes on hezbollah, which wants to hold back. Hezbollah needs war with israel like being a congestive Heart Failure and i think iran would rather have keep as well as a deterrent against an Israeli Attack on Iranian Nuclear facilities that the sort of ways that powerful deterrent on a relatively marginal place like gaza. But if it spreads, if the unrest spreads, they all may recalculate and you can see how that is starting to play out now. I want to play the jordans foreign minister, Emmitt Safadi lester holt today and again, this Hospital Explosion has been a kind of trigger point, although it, in some respects, obviously is horrible, the hospital was scorched, but the amount of death and destruction in Gaza Independent of that is enormous. Being broadcast across the region. This is his response to joe biden saying, preliminary intelligence supported the israeli account. Take a listen. Nobody is buying that narrative in this part of the world. The only way that people would entertain a different narrative is if there is an independent International Inquiry into the tragedy that has happened, with impeccable evidence that it was not israel. And to your point, hussain, this is just one moment, flash point in the first week, a Ground Invasion, a larger incursion is going to produce more such moments, almost as a matter of 100 sure, chris. Look, weve seen this film before. Both involving israel and lebanon and in gaza before. If israel was not responsible for this hospital attack, as it may not have been, it will be in the future. I mean, they do this stuff all the time. Its not just israel. The United States had the same experiences in vietnam and afghanistan. The soviets had the same experience in afghanistan. The saudis have had that experience in yemen. This is what happens when major powers go to war against Insurgent Groups that are embedded in civilian populations because that is where they come from. And there is no way to unscramble those eggs. So, final question to you. I mean, ive spoken to a bunch of people over the last week and someone said to me, look, theres not a nation on earth that would not militarily respond to what happened in southern israel, not one. What is the alternative to that . Its a very good question and i do think that is true, although that the fact that theres been this occupation in gaza from the outside and in the west bank, and easter slum on the inside, since 1967. , minor detail. But yes, any country would respond and that is the point. Hamas knows that. The alternative to giving hamas what it wants, which is a protracted Ground Presence in gaza that yields to an insurgency that kind of turns into a killing field, bit by bit, drip by drip of israeli and whatnot is to show restraint and work with The Americans and the saudis to deny hamas that sort of insurgency and get back on track with negotiations to normalize relations with saudi arabia. Deny them what they want and force upon them of the thing that they want it to sabotage. Thats the smart thing. Thank you very much, i really think a lot about your piece. We will be right back. Thank you. E. We will be right back. Thank you thank you im adding Downy Unstopables to my wash now. Ill be smelling fresh all day long. [sniffs] still fresh. Still fresh get 6 times longerlasting freshness, plus Odor Protection with Downy Unstopables. Hi, im ron reagan, an unabashed atheist. And im alarmed, as you may be, by the intrusions of religion into our secular government. Thats why im asking you to join the freedom from Religion Foundation, the nations largest and most effective association of atheists and agnostics working to keep state and church separate, just like our founders intended. Please join the freedom from Religion Foundation today. Ron reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell. I have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. 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Chase. Make more of whats yours. Just a little while ago the white house announced President Biden will deliver a Primetime Address to the nation tomorrow night at eight pm eastern time to, quote, discuss our response to hamas Terrorist Attacks against israel and russias ongoing brutal war against ukraine. I will have live special coverage of that speech right here with my colleagues joy reid and jen psaki. That is all in on this wednesday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening, alex. In the 9 00 hour. Perfect. Thank you, my friend, as always. And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. For days now, a line of more than 100 trucks filled with food and fuel and medical supplies and water. That line of trucks has been waiting at the racr