Proudly casting my vote for vice president kamala harris. The coalition to protect democracy and defeat donald trump. He is petty, he is vindictive and he is cruel and donald trump is not fit to lead this good and great nation. Liz cheney and kamala harris making the case to republican voters. Together i know we can chart a new way forward. Not as members of any one party, but as americans. Tonight, as republicans try to whitewash the attack on the capital, two of the police officers injured that they join me live. Then your lies are well documented and these convictions are serious. I am convinced you would do it all over again if you could. Justice for one of the people who tried to overthrow the 2020 election as jack smith lays out the case against donald trump. Plus he lied and he lied and he lied. The alternate reality pushed by trump and his running mate when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. I am chris hayes. We have been watching the scene in wisconsin. That is the birthplace of the republican party before the election of abraham lincoln and the place were former republican congresswoman liz cheney just joined kamala harris the vice president for a joint campaign appearance, taking the stage. Cheney endorsed the vice president and laid out the stakes of this election. I tell you i have never voted for a democrat, but this year i am proudly casting my vote for vice president kamala harris. As we meet here today, our republic faces a threat unlike any we have faced before. A former president to attempted to stay in power by unraveling the foundations of our republic. By refusing to accept the lawful results confirmed by dozens of courts of the 2020 election. We cannot turn away from this truth. In this election, putting patriotism ahead of partisanship is not an aspiration. It is our duty. To state the obvious, personally i don't agree with a lot of cheney's politics. I imagine a lot of you watching feel the same way. Just about everything she has advocated for in the course of public life. Except one thing. Except one thing, the most important thing. This is someone who put her whole political career, her future in the republican party, a party to which she was born. And eris innocence. She put it on the line for american democracy. She is someone who believes donald trump is a unique threat. Donald trump was willing to sacrifice our capital to allow law enforcement officers to be beaten and brutalized in his name and violate the law and the constitution in order to seize power for himself. I don't care if you are a democrat or a republican or an independent. That is depravity and we must never become numb to it. Any person who would do these things can never be trusted with power again. Now the health and future of american democracy is very clearly, obviously on the ballot this election, but just because something is important, like whether we will be a democracy or not, it does not necessarily mean that it is good campaign fodder. There is reason to believe that just like two years ago, running on this core message that we are americans, democracy and we want to keep that going, that that is a winning message. Take a look at this. This is a graph from 2022. The green line shows president joe biden's approval rating from the time he took office in 2021 to september, 2022. You can see it was going steadily down until the end of that summer when it picks up and reverses course. See that little tick in the bottom? this came in the wake of the supreme court decision at the end of june overturning roe v. Wade. Over june and july millions of americans also watched eight hearings held by the january 6 committee. Democrat saw where the mood of the country was and they ran on those issues. Abortion and in particular, democracy. Remember this speech? it was just ahead of labor day weekend. President biden delivered this primetime address in front of independence hall, warning that our democracy was at stake. For a long time we told ourselves that american democracy is guaranteed, but it is not. We have to defend it. Protect it. Stand up for it. Each and every one of us. That is why tonight i am asking our nation to come together. Unite behind the single purpose of defending our democracy regardless of your ideology. At the time remember the discourse around this? it was not clear if that message was going to work. Sort of an open question and there were a lot of people out there who thought it was out of touch, tone deaf or even elitist, that real people only cared about grocery prices and they were wrong. Biden and democrats defied expectations. They pulled off a historic win for a still relatively unpopular incumbent president. The democrats bet and one two years ago on the idea that it is actually condescending to think that ordinary people, plumbers and cabdrivers and teachers and nurses, don't understand or care about democracy. That is too highfalutin for them? working people, people without a lot of money, people without formal education, they are smart. In fact the reason we have a democracy in the first place is because we trust that all of us together can make these decisions. I think the majority of people of all different walks of life, all levels of education, credentials, don't want to dictatorship. I think if you force the issues in those terms the pro democracy side wins. That was the message and it worked in 2022. Here we are again. This time around the other side knows, believe me they know, that january 6, the images of the men bashing the cops brains in, the attempt to overthrow the american republic, is an enormous political liability. Instead of engaging with it or admitting to it, they are desperately trying to run away from it. Did he lose the 2020 election? kim, i'm focused on the future. Did kamala harris censor americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation? that is a damning nonanswer. That is a damning nonanswer. The republican majority whip had been running around, blaming the media. It is the media's fault for being obsessed with donald trump's attempted coup. Did you think you would get that question? did you talk about how to answer the 2020 question? listen, again, he answered it. You don't like the answer, but he answered it. This is something that you folks in the media want to focus on on a regular basis. The american people and thank goodness j. D. Vance and donald trump are focused on the election and how to fix this country. Again, we are talking about an election that will take place in 35 days. What are you doing talking about something four years ago? donald trump is still talking about four years ago, with all due respect. The people are hurting. You don't have to be particularly read into politics to understand the gentleman on the right of your screen doesn't want to talk about it because it is bad for him. Because the guy who is effectively his boss summoned a violent mob to try to end american democracy. So they want to change the subject because they understand again that the majority of the country wants to preserve democracy. Of course donald trump himself is a bit of a different story. He is too obsessed with the whole thing to ever drop it. It was a rigged election. You have to tell kamala harris that is why i am doing it again. If i thought i lost. You know where i would be right now? on the beaches of monte carlo or someplace. All right, you see the little thing we put on the screen? that was today. We are not running file footage. Today in saginaw, michigan. A few days after tom hammer was yelling about how the media is obsessed with it, donald trump was talking about the 2020 election and there is a reason that has not worked for trump. No matter the background or income or education level or positions on things, i do think americans believe fundamentally, a majority of us in our democratic experiment and wanted to continue. Here we are, 33 days to go. Donald trump and his authoritarian names on the ballot once again. J. D. Vance pledging to do whatever it takes on donald trump's behalf up to and including overturning elections. He is on the record. With the help of the supreme court. Trump has tried to wipe his crimes from voters minds. His running mate j. D. Vance refused to tell tens of millions of americans if he would do it again. In the last 24 hours we got new evidence from special prosecutor jack smith about how far trump was willing to go to foment the coup on january 6 and tonight, liz cheney stood up to remind us that he is really going to try to do it again. If we come together as a pro democracy coalition we can stop it. We have a shared commitment. A shared commitment as americans to ensuring that future generations live in a nation where power is transferred peacefully. Where our leaders are men and women of good faith and where our public servants set aside partisan battles to do what's right for this country. I ask you to meet this moment. I ask you to stand in truth. To reject the depraved cruelty of donald trump. Now i may live to eat these words. I don't know the future and no one else does, but i'm willing to put my faith in the american people on this. That we want to be a democracy and not a donald trump dictatorship. Officer michael fanone and sergeant aquilino gonell were both police officers who defended the capitol. Officer michael fanone has since toured the country with a group speaking out against extremism. The author of hold the line, the insurrection and one cops battle for america's soul. Aquilino gonell is author of american shield, the emigrant sergeant who defended democracy and a new oped titled january 6 was one of the worst days of my life and i do not want to see it happen again. They both join me now. Sergeant gonell, let me get your reaction to two things j. D. Vance said. He would not say who won the election and then an even more audacious lie where he said for all the whining democrats are doing they peacefully transfer power on january 20, so what is the big deal? well, thanks for having me on your show and to that i say, january 6 was not peaceful. Peaceful is a handshake and wishing the other party well. For the good of the country. On january 6 what we encountered was the violence that republicans and the president, the leading candidate who now is proposing to do it all over again. Another january 6. So all the sacrifices that we did to protect those elected officials. You know, j. D. Vance was not at the capitol on january 6, fortunately for him. But i could see him running just like josh hawley did while we were protecting them from being harmed. It is a desecration of the sacrifices that we did on that day. Mike, i want to get your thoughts on what went through your mind as you saw j. D. Vance sort of blithely dismissed the whole thing. J. D. Vance is a liar. He is donald trump's useful idiot and he will say anything to appease donald trump. I mean at the end of the day what i have come to learn about j. D. Vance is that he is a pure opportunist and he is looking to further his own political career, just like so many other republicans in this moment who know that donald trump is dangerous. Who know that donald trump is a disgrace, but are willing to allow themselves or will pay fealty to him to further their own political careers. So at the end of the day, like i said, j. D. Vance is a liar. January 6 was brutal. It was violent. Lawenforcement officers were severely beaten. Myself and sergeant gonell included and that is the reality of january 6. Sergeant gonell, i'm going to quote from your oped and ask a question about it. You said patriotism is not targeting noncitizen voting. It is defending democracy from the threats of extremism and the possibility of another january 6. You are an immigrant to this country who served your adopted country. You served this nation. You worked as an officer and defended the capitol on that day. As you watch this demonization of immigrants from people who want to be in power once again, this scaremongering, vile libel and memory holing of january 6, what do you think? unfortunately they have even tried to pass the save act, which is a maga, project 2025 project. The legislation they want to pass where immigrants are going to be stripped of naturalizations. Their protected status, legal status. It is very unfortunate because here i am, possibly the poster child of what republicans used to say of the type of immigrant that they wanted in this country. Somebody who comes here. Literally somebody who gets an education. Somebody who would join the military. Somebody who would go to war and then come back and become a police officer and continue to defend the nation and instead of saying thank you for your service, i am glad to have you here, they have not even sat down with myself, michael fanone, any of the officers who defended the capitol to say tell us about your experience and we are going to support you. When they say they support the police, that is a nice slogan. I don't buy it anymore. Because they support every officer except for capitol police. To protect the elected officials who were running for their lives, because the mom that their candidate, their leader sent to attack on january 6. That is infuriating that they have scapegoated the immigrants, myself included. Michael, i've got to know you a little bit over the past few years. We have talked a bit and i want to ask about this idea that i think is a little bit insidious that only out of touch elites care about defending democracy. You are from maryland. You live in a rural area, a fairly conservative area. You were a baltimore police officer for years and worked undercover as a detective at one point. I wonder what you think about that idea that real people don't care about that stuff and this is some concern of cloistered elites. No disrespect to baltimore city police, but i was a d. C. Police officer. Oh, i am sorry. Listen, i don't know when i went to the capitol on january 6, the furthest thing from my mind was protecting democracy. I went to the capitol to support my fellow officers. Officers who were screaming distress calls over the radio because they were being assaulted by donald trump's supporters. In the aftermath of january 6, obviously i've come to understand better whatever democracy is. What it takes to sustain and then they think many americans have been educated in the aftermath of january 6 about how fragile democracy is. Liz cheney talked about it in her speech this evening about how democracy is something that each generation will have to ante up and kick in and i think this moment is our generation's moment in which we now recognize this threat posed by donald trump. An insurrectionist candidate for president and his supporters, who are insurrectionist members of congress and insurrectionist members of the republican party. And how much of a threat they posed where democracy and i think americans are going to rise to the occasion and they are going to deliver him a defeat on november 5. Thank you, michael, for correcting me and apologies for stealing your valor in their favor. Go ahead, and one thing that a lot of people need to get straight, wanting the former president for his interference in the transfer of power in the last election does not equate to interference in the next one. At the end of the day he himself has been the one trying to delay the process of holding him accountable through the court system. You know, it is up to all of us, the voters, to repudiate that type of violence, behavior and conduct for anybody, any candidate. We should do everything possible and that is why we do what we do, working with courage for america to hold and spread the word that this political rhetoric should be not accepted. Sergeant aquilino gonell, officer michael fanone, thank you gentlemen, both. I appreciate your time tonight, thank you. Coming up, as donald trump keeps trying to dodge his trial, a republican official is sentenced almost a decade in prison for interfering in the 2020 election. That is next. Next. Into something we can see and hold. The fingerprints we leave behind show how determined we are to give the world a piece of ourselves. Etsy. () the darkness of bipolar depression made me feel like life was moving on without me. 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[narrator] life with ear ringing sounded like a constant train. Whistle i couldn't escape. Then i started taking lipo flavonoid. With 60 years of clinical experience, it's the number one doctor recommended brand for ear ringing. And now i'm finally free. Take back control with lipo flavonoid. Today there was justice for election interference. Not for donald trump, but for a county clerk who tried to help him overturn the election. Former county clerk tina peters was found guilty of four felonies and sentenced to nine years behind bars in connection to efforts to reach the election data in colorado. The judge called her a charlatan and said she had no remorse for her crimes. Your lies are well documented and these convictions are serious. I am convinced you would do it all over again if you could. You are as defiant a defendant as this court has ever seen. You are no hero, you abused your position and you are a charlatan who used and are still using your prior position in office to pedal snake oil that has been proven to be junk time and time again. In your world it is all about you, but at the bottom of this case it was about your corrupt conduct and no one is above the law. No one in this country has absolute power. You abdicated your position as a servant to the constitution and you chose you over all else. Yes, you are a charlatan and you cannot help but lie as easy as it is for you to breathe. You betrayed your oath for no one other than you and this is what makes you such a danger to our community. It is the position she held that has provided the pulpit from which she can preach these lies. The undermining of our democratic process. The undermining of the belief and confidence in our election systems. The damage is immeasurable. That sentencing comes a day after a federal judge in washington, d. C. Unsealed the lengthy briefs from the special counsel that we covered yesterday, laying out evidence as to why donald trump is not immune from prosecution for trying to steal the election. Today the judge gave donald trump an extension, saying he has until november 7, two days after the election, to file a response. Harry litman is a former u. S. Attorney for the western district of pennsylvania and he joins me now. I said to someone today that tina peters, poor woman didn't get herself elected president, so she had to face the law like everyone else. She actually ran for secretary of state, but she did allow that breach by an associate of mike lindell. What the judge is also referring to, she went all over the country and what is telling and really dovetails with trump and vance as she continued and continued and continued to propagate this all over the country, in fact abandoning her job when she did it. That is what really made the judge irate. So it is not just the original sin, but the complete unrepentant sand that of course is also characteristic of one of the candidates for president. And in fact jack smith in that filing talks about promising pardons to folks who stormed the capital. Celebrating political prisoners in a bunch of ways as evidence of the complete lack of remorse and the sort of total criminal mind of someone who is still insistent that what he did was right and he would do it again. So what, says trump, when he learns mike pence is in mortal peril. There are all kinds of statements like it. And made by conspirators all around him. The evidence of his knowledge and premeditation, but also as you say, his indifference and even jubilation as he is watching the tv and tweeting. You know, there is a kind of moral turpitude that comes out, not simply just the criminal acts, but the real complete corruption of the president. So interestingly today if i am following this correctly on our internal slack, judge chutkan, trump's people want to file their response brief two days after the election. I thought it was interesting because there seem to be competing imperatives. They want to delay everything always, as long as you can take. At one level you would think you would want to rebut it before the election. What is the meaning of wanting to file two days after the election? they actually wanted to file on the 21st, even longer. She trimmed them back to the seventh. I think probably the brief in response is going to be really full of lies, but the main point is there have been as you said parallel imperatives all the way through. Will it be revealed in the political sphere and what will happen at trial? that first one is done now and it seems to me they were probably asleep at the switch and not moving for a stay, but in any event the cat is out of the bag and now we are really focused on the legal process. I can see they are not wanting to do it before the election, but it is really a minor point now. The big point is, it is all on the table. And i actually think that point we were making in the previous block, that they can understand this is bad for them, is him filing a rebuttal brief before the election would be another new story and the fact that the man tried to overthrow the election. Even if it is a rebuttal, the rebuttal itself increases attention on a topic they don't want to talk about. 100%, you could have an immediate filing and things would be lies. Here is what will happen going forward. We are in a legal process. It's going to be long and what is important about the brief, besides the facts we mentioned, is smith breaks everything down to individual conversations, interactions and it is all, four pins, which will be the main event, he has three different arguments and 20 different encounters, so he is hoping that some will survive, enough to bring pins into the case, even though he has taken on what he knows to be a challenging argument on immunity. Harry litman, thank you for that. Up next, just like donald trump, j. D. Vance is peddling an alternate reality. The many outright lies he tried to get away with at the debate, next. Sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep. . . . . . So he takes zzzquil. The world's #1 sleep aid brand. And wakes up feeling like himself. Get the rest to be your best with nonhabit forming zzzquil. hayden: the fact st. Jude will take care of all this, this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. Chelsea: it's everything for us. We wouldn't know what to do. We couldn't afford for our little girl to survive. And st. Jude gives us that. [music playing] if they really believe climate change is serious, what they would be doing is more manufacturing and energy production in the united states of america and that is not what they are doing. If you really want to make the environment cleaner you have to invest in energy production. We haven't built a nuclear facility, i think one in the last 40 years. J. D. Vance lies so smoothly that even when you're paying attention and you know the score sometimes, you don't even know you are being lied to and it drives me insane. Here is the truth, everyone. The united states under joe biden and vice president kamala harris right now already produces more energy than any nation on earth and more energy than the u. S. Has in the past including the trump administration. In fact the biden department of energy helped open the second of two nuclear reactors in georgia in may. Those were the first nuclear plants in the u. S. In 30 years. In july biden signed a bipartisan bill into law aimed at fastly growing domestic nuclear energy. What you call it when someone says the opposite of the truth? let's just call it the trump vance campaign. An entire political movement based on americans not believing their lying eyes. Directing hate at groups instead of attempting to actually solve problems with actual solutions. As vance proved in his debate performance. He claimed there were 25 million unauthorized immigrants in the country, a madeup figure he repeated often on the campaign trail. The actual number experts say is half of that. He suggested that the migrants in springfield, ohio were illegal immigrants when in fact they hold legal status. He falsely claimed mexican cartels are running guns into the u. S. Across the border. Everyone who covers the border knows that guns flow from america, where they are readily available, to mexico, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. He also said crime, inflation and border crossings are up. The opposite is true. They are all falling. My favorite lie is when vance said in a matter so assured that i thought maybe i was missing something, that donald trump spearheaded a bipartisan effort to save obamacare? trump ran on a promise to kill the affordable care act and as tim walz pointed out, trump came within one vote of succeeding in killing him. This is not about good faith disagreements on whether some policy will have the effect. It is about gas lighting into not knowing what to believe. Talk about why creating this alternate reality is a central project to the trumpvance campaign, up next. If you struggle. And struggle. And struggle with cpap. You should check out inspire. No mask. No hose. Just sleep. Learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep. Com liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. With the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. Oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need. liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty i know about 20 of you, and you're rich as hell. We're going to what you need. Give you tax cuts. I'm not rich as hell. I'm the one that really needs the break, not the people that are already rich and have the money. The 1% don't serve anybody but themselves. So for them to get a tax break, no, that's not cool. Kamala harris is going to make billionaires pay their fair share, and she's going to cut taxes for working people like me. I'm buddy, and i'm not rich as hell, and i'm voting for kamala harris. Ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad. If you're watching this, i didn't make it. 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It is a despicable, delusional life from donald trump spun out of whole cloth today, like so many things he says. Combine that with j. D. Vance's smooth delivery of lies in tuesday's debate and it becomes clear that creating an alternate reality is a central project of the campaign. Adam is a staff writer at the atlantic where he wrote about the rise of the right wing tattletale. That is a great piece i recommend and he joins me now. The smoothness, sometimes it is the case even though i do this professionally and deal with people and talk to politicians. It is kind of a confidence game. At 78, having done this stick for so long and now sounding like marlin brando in apocalypse now, the trump lies are easier to detect, but j. D. Vance, that was a moment that got me like we have not built a nuclear plant in 40 years. I just did a podcast with a guy at the department of energy about a nuclear plant, but there is something so crazy about the assuredness with which they do that. Yeah, i mean j. D. Vance lies like someone who is constantly in online arguments and has to make up a reason why he is correct. I think that is why you see him, you know. He has had a lot of practice on podcasts, just pulling things out of his, i won't say it because this is a family program. It is so true. He has an easy facility with what we might call, you know that kind of thing. He is very good at it, but of course, you know part of the reason he seems like he is good at it is that conservative media has created a sort of hermetically sealed, alternate universe in which the most important thing that is happening is whatever sort of weird episode that someone like donald trump or j. D. Vance has made up as the story of the day that is either distorted or exaggerated in some way to enhance the basic message of the political campaign. In this case, the clip your showing of donald trump saying that illegal immigrants were getting hurricane aid so that they would vote for kamala harris. Illegal immigrants can't vote. It is just a complete, just complete nonsense. But in the foxnews cinematic universe it makes a certain amount of sense, because they believe and trust donald trump and j. D. Vance and they don't believe and trust other sources of authority. I think it is sort of associated, connected i think to the aspirations past this sort of hermetically sealed, right wing universe which exists right now and is part of what can happen in a free society. With freedom of press they can create their own alternate universe and people can listen to that, but the aspirations go past that and i think that is what you are getting at in the speech today. Threats of retaliation against media outlets or anyone who speaks out against trump illustrates that what conservatives mean is a legal right to use private platforms as venues for right wing propaganda, whether or not those platforms wish to be used that way. Representing threats to google, cbs, abc. It is not enough to create the hermetically sealed universe, but the aspiration is to make it everybody's universe. Right. Remember during the debate when donald trump started repeating this about haitian immigrants in ohio, he was fact checked and people were outraged by that. Why? because conservatives believe they have a right to monologue. They have a right to do what they want and you don't really have a right to disagree. They can say what they want and you can say what they want and if you don't, there will be punishment for that. Yes and then we got the exact same moment in the cbs debate. The one real moment of fact checking when he said that haitians were here illegally and he was fact checked on that. He complained that you are not supposed to fact check and all the conservatives rushed to twitter, but it further proves your thesis. That pieces in the atlantic along with the great piece on the tattletale snitch state republicans are building. Particularly texas. Adam, thank you so much. Still to come, with just over a month to election day, the latest swing state poll shows the race, you will be shocked to hear this, neck and neck. What it will take to move the needle, coming up. Edle, coming. Subject 1: who's coming in the driveway? subject 2: dad! dad! dad, we missed you! daddy, hi! subject 3: goodness! my daughter is being treated for leukemia. I hope that she lives a long, great, happy life and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. St. Jude, i mean, this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. 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St. Jude showed us that tomorrow there's hope for our little girl to survive. Announcer: let's cure childhood cancer together. Please donate now. When did i call leaffilter? when i saw my gutters overflowing onto my porch. Leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so, you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. It's the easiest call you can make. Call 833. Leaf. Filter today, or visit leaffilter. Com. We are 33 days out from election day, the race remains very, very close, as vice president kamala harris spent the afternoon courting republican moderate voters liz cheney in wisconsin, while trump used his michigan rally to once again lie about the 2020 election. Both states considered must wins, neither candidate has opened a significant lead. A new poll has harris up with one point, well within the margin of error, and from wisconsin university, harris is up four, also within the margin of error. A democratic strategist, a poster, founder and coexecutive director of the nonprofit, indivisible, and they join me now. Let me start with you because there are a lot of people who are spending a lot of time feeling a lot of anxiety about the outcome of this election, looking at models, looking at polling. I keep telling them what rg said on this program just a few weeks ago, we are trying to measure in ounces, and polls are designed to measure in pounds. It is close. What are the people in indivisible doing? what you tell people on the ground to do with that energy? yeah, absolutely. Chris, what we tell people is that when an election is within the margin of error, it is also within the margin of effort and the margin of effort fundamentally is how many voters we contact, how many conversations we have, how many people we turn out. What we know is that there is no better cure for that anxiety, there is no better cure for that sense of dread then getting out there and talking to some actual voters. You have some interesting conversations, but more importantly, you are doing something and you can feel the progress you are making on the ground. So, if that is you and you are not sure where to start, had to indivisible. Org. We have a set of tools to match you up with voters in your immediate neighborhood if you're in a swing state, voters we have to turn out, we have tools to help you contact voters in swing states, but get started somewhere. Margie, at this estate in the election, what is the political science, and what does the experience or work in politics tell us about what does work at this point? we are down to a very small group of people that are maybe going to vote or maybe not, or maybe vote for harris, or maybe vote for trump. Most people have decided, most people's vote is sort of overdetermined by a sun joe of factors. I was driving around a 5050 area with sign wars between neighbors, clearly like one person had put up one sign and then the other person across the street had countered. What do we know about what matters in the last 30 days of an election? what is interesting is both persuasion and get out the vote. There is turnout and persuasion. So, there are folks who, a, are democrats. They vote for democrats, they support democratic candidates, and don't necessarily vote in every election. They are lower propensity voters, but democrats. Those are votes where you need a heavy turnout effort, things that indivisible may work on, to get people to turn out and remind people how to vote, make a plan. Then, there is persuasion. The phone folks who dip in and out of the election, but sometimes they change their mind, sometimes they vote democratic, sometimes they vote republican. They need a different kind of attention. They will wait until the very end to make up their mind, they will pay attention to advertising. One thing that is different in every state, which makes pulling even more complicated, is people who vote early at making sure people who vote early, get those votes in the bank, make sure people who are on the fence, make it really easy for them and convenient for eligible voters to go out and vote so you get those votes in the bag before people have decided, man, something came up. So, all of that really varies from state to state, how long a state has been doing something like that, whether they have a new vote by mail operation, all of those things very tremendously. So, that is also a very important part of this. And you were nodding your head vigorously, and there is a great writer/activist named asheville taylor, who i've known for a long time, who lives in asheville, north carolina, she is writing about the stuff happening in western north carolina, how brutal it has been for people in appalachia. But also, how that will affect mailin voting, that is low on people's concerns right now, but it speaks to the fact that you don't know what is going to happen, right? so, to the extent that you can bank votes, the future is unwritten in terms of weather, disaster, whatever that seems like a place that democratic campaigns particularly have been putting a lot of effort. Leah? that is absolutely true. One thing we say about early voting is that it helps the campaigns, because fundamentally, they only have so many hours in the day, they only have so many ways to contact voters. If you vote early, you get taken off those lists. One really good reason to vote early if you live in a place with a competitive election, is if you want them to stop calling you. Right? that is a great point. On the question of advertising, margie, i was watching the local news in new york the other night, and we are at that point in the year where it is just almost comical, right? i mean, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Does it work anymore? like, do you reach do we have good science on this about i'm serious is there good science on saturation points? do we know whether it is effective, if you watch eight ads in a row? if one of them actually means something? what do we know about that? well, we see it. We see it in our polling. We see it in our poll we will do a poll before anything happens, and then a couple weeks later, things change. So, we see it make a difference, in terms of advertising, in terms of making an impact. I think the challenge is how to reach people, where to find them. Whether it is on broadcast, or cable, or streaming, or on their cell phones, or someplace else, you know, or is it on social media or all the places where people can be reached, in the mail, and so on. It makes a much more fractured way of reaching people, but it means for folks who are in competitive, wellfunded races and areas, they feel, you know, they can't really move without getting an ad from somebody. Leah, i think the poster consensus, the campaign consensus, the political journalist consensus is that this is close. Is that how you folks at indivisible see it and are approaching it? that is exactly how we are seeing it and what we are seeing is that there is incredible enthusiasm, incredible energy on the ground, we are seeing people come out of the woodwork. They are desperate to beat donald trump but also excited to elect kamala harris, and also everyone knows in every state that we are operating in, so many different swing districts, it is incredibly close. That is why, again, we say it really could come down to that margin of effort, the number of voters we contact. What we know, these people, as margie says, they are getting hit with a ton of different ads, they are getting hit by every possible medium of paid advertising. But, a lot of these folks are not people who start with a high level of trust in the political system or political actors, so a conversation with a friend, a conversation with a neighbor can make a difference. Margie, leah, thank you, both. That is all in on this thursday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now with jen saki in for alex. Good evening, jen. Hello, chris. Basically, everything matters, people care about democracy,