Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20241005

Be sure to check out my show, the weekend, saturday and sunday at 8:00 a. M. Eastern. All in with chris hayes starts, gas win, right now. Tonight on all in november 5, we have to do all we can to elect kamala harris as the next president of the united states. The harris campaign finds magic in michigan. The trump side refuses to observe reality. No it's not. Tonight, lies and the lying liars campaigning on them. And the latest example of good government acting in the public interest that is driving maga crazy. I have two prepare all of you to get very angry because what we are about to share with you will rightly make your blood boil. And how melania trump is cashing in on the chaos her husband created. What does my body, my choice really mean? when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. I am chris hayes. 32 days until the election and we have been hearing a lot about misinformation lately. The danger it poses in this very tense political climate and i think the term misinformation doesn't quite do enough to capture what is happening with one half of the american twoparty system. Outright, brazen, ludicrous, dangerous lies in denial of the most obvious reality, the one you can see before you. That has become not just the primary tactic for donald trump and his running mate, but the principal increasingly for the entire republican party. Listen to this telling exchange on the economy. Do you acknowledge that the economy is improving? no it's not. Inflation has devastated our economy. It is one of the big problems we have and on jobs, the illegals have taken more jobs than anybody else. You have illegals coming in and taking the jobs. Just a lie. Donald trump knows the economy is doing very well. He knows that it inflation has cooled. The stock market is booming. He denies it as if by repeating the lie enough times he can change the underlying reality himself. That's the idea. Another one from today. A simple, small one, but perfectly indicative. Trump boasts that jamie dimon has endorsed trump for president and you think you can't lie about that, it is too easy to check. You probably guess what the problem is. Jamie dimon has not endorsed donald trump for president. That is a flat out lie. You can call up his spokespeople as reporters did and his spokespeople said he has not endorsed anyone. When trump was called out for this obvious, brazen lie, he then resorted to more line, telling nbc news i don't know anything about it and somebody put it up, no, i don't know. He responded, well then, somebody is using his name and the original post with the lie is still up, by the way. This is just a perfect example of how the trump republican party operates. Today florida senator marco rubio, who once upon a time people called a serious dude, he called these new job numbers put out by civil servants, and other fake jobs report from the bidenharris government. Baselessly accusing the white house of cooking the books and at some level it's not anything new. We've been living with this for so long, everyone knows trump and his maga cronies are liars, but there is a real danger here. Lies are dangerous. They have a cost, like for instance most obviously the big lie of the election, ally donald trump repeats almost every day, even as his running mate tries to guess lead us all into believing he doesn't and that lie caused the deadly january 6 insurrection, threats of violence. It is the means through which trump maybe priming supporters to do it all again a month from now. He seems dead set at it. There is also blood libel directed at haitian migrants and racist lies. That directly led to a series of bomb threats and fears for safety in springfield, ohio, and workplaces and in schools and it is a lie, by the way, that j. D. Vance admits is a line. The american media totally ignored the stuff until donald trump and i started talking about cat memes. It wasn't just a meme. If i have to create stories so the american media pays attention to the suffering of the american people, than that is what i am going to do. Make up stories. So that claim about haitians is the most notable, but trump's dangerous lies or an everyday occurrence. They don't end there, with graphic and violent rhetoric. They are releasing migrants into our country, but these are killers. These are people at the highest level of killing. That cut your throat and they won't even think about it the next morning. They won't even think about it and these people are all over the place and they are killing people. I can go through the stories, but i won't, but all over, sometimes they do. They come up, they grab young girls and they sliced them up right in front of their parents. Now, these are dangerous things to say. They are incitement of a sort. The exact same thing is happening with the lines he has been pushing around hurricane helene, that disaster relief money is somehow taken from those affected and redirected to migrants. So we now have no money that was supposed to be used for tragedy, for hurricanes, and this was a tragic hurricane. This was maybe the worst hurricane we've ever had and he has no money. You say what happened to the money. They were given billions for this. He spent it on illegal migrants coming into the country. A big percentage of which are murderers, so we are poisoning our country. Our country is being poisoned. Our country is being ruined by these people and it took millions of dollars and used it for settlements of people that came in, many of which are criminals. Again, this is fabricated, it's made up, it is a lie. The only president who took fema money for migrant attention was donald trump when he was president, but it is just an alternate reality. The messages sticking. Voters are buying the alternate reality he is selling. A voter asked him about it at his rally and he lied about it again. Congressman marjorie taylor greene, republican, even got in on the conspiracy. Listen to this. Quote. Yes, they can control the weather. It is ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it can't be done. I have to admit when i first saw this i thought it was a parody, like someone had taken over her account, but no. The idea in case you're not following this particular conspiracy theory is that hurricane helene was created and sent to western north carolina to punish people that don't vote for donald trump, even though asheville is famously a liberal town in north carolina. I shouldn't be surprised. This is coming from a woman who said famously that some space laser started a california wildfire, but that was before she was a member of congress. Now she is a member of congress. Like they control the weather, out there for everyone to read is a pretty shocking lie. A lie doesn't even do it justice. It is a delusion. It is a form of madness she is hoping to spread and also, who exactly is they? think for a second, who is they? yesterday a republican state senator from north carolina, republican, was begging folks to stop spreading these lies and conspiracy theories, which are actually hampering recovery efforts. These help stop this junk. It is just a distraction to people trying to do their job. Please don't let these crazy stories consume you or you will continually contact your elected officials to see if they are true. One north carolina democrat spoke about how polluted the information environment had become thanks in part to donald trump. The biggest issue is rumors and fake names and photos of people trapped in areas around the county and we sent folks out to rescue them and there is no one there to be rescued. Precious resources at the county level, amidst a national disaster, going out to rescue people who are not there. These are dangerous lies in the middle of a serious natural disaster that left over 200 people dead. And it is part of a larger attempt to trick and scare voters and basically sort of whisked them into an alternate reality. All part of the same scheme, from j. D. Vance unable to say that trump lost the election, that fema stole the money and spend it on immigrants. Joe biden is cooking the books. They can control the weather. What are you going to do with stuff like that, like where do you start combating ally like that. The plain fact is that there has been a complete and total breakdown among tens of millions of our fellow americans. That breakdown, that brazen lying is what brought threats of violence to the people of springfield. It is as i speak to you actively hampering an ongoing hurricane recovery. And nearly four years ago it brought unarmed, angry mob to our nation's capital and if left unabated i fear it is going to get people hurt again. Tim miller is a former spokesman for the republican national committee and now a writer at large for the bulwark. They join me now. Tim, i want to start with that post i think from a state senator in north carolina and i have seen a few of these. A republican official in knox county posted something like this, basically saying please stop with all this nonsense and it reminded me of the kinds of things you would see from republican election officials in georgia and arizona in 2020. Like we have an actual job we have to do here. We are trying to do this job. Please, i'm begging you, do not go for this nonsense, because it has real costs. That is a pretty dark intro, chris. I will give you one comment that might make you smile. The republican official in knox county, the mayor, is a former wwe wrestler, kane, who is a maga mare now in tennessee and these guys are somewhat insulated from the problem that i am about to explain. Because they are at the local level, because they have real jobs. They have to be responsive to their citizens in a time of crisis. They need to act in a certain way that marjorie taylor greene does not have to end it was the same with the election you mentioned in 2020. The problem here comes from the top. I hate to make everything about the big lie, but if you make the ante to be a republican in good standing that you have to lie about something obvious. Like you have to tell a brazen lie that you know is not true with no evidence that the election was stolen in 2020. You have to do that to be a republican in good standing. To be a new republican who runs for office in 2024 or to stay in the party, like marco rubio, who you mentioned, and to continue in the party in good standing. So what does that do to your discourse? if the only people in the party or people that are willing to tell one brazen lie, it becomes pretty easy to see why all of these other brazen lines that you mention get to be spread and so to me that is the systemic issue within the party and the fact that it is actually hurting real maga voters living in these areas, you would think might offset that, but it seems to only offset it at the most local level. They run the gamut, from the really consequential lies about springfield or north carolina. The jamie dimon one was so perfect, because on one level it doesn't matter, it's just funny, but also if you can lie about that the guy, he's not dead. You can call him. He is like no, i did not do it. But that is a wild thing to try to pull off in front of everyone and then not back down from. It is almost like a dare or abet or a kind of totalitarian exercise. I think that is the right way to see it. It is an exercise of power. An attempt to say i can say this, i can say this untrue thing and no one can really do anything about it. You can't punish me in any way for saying this untrue thing. The republican party is named for the jeffersonian republicans, like that is the origin of the name. The people who created the party were like we will harken back to the jeffersonian republicans and republican in that way was used very much as sort of a reference and a way to signal commitment to this larger set of values about how to organize a society and how to behave in political life and the idea that our obligations aren't just to win and get the policies we want, but we are trying to construct a society which we can pass on a political system to the people who come after us and we can be good caretakers of this culture, of this country, and we can do so in a way that helps, you know, that's furthers the importance of civic virtue. Civic virtue is a big, important part of all of this and it is so ironic that the contemporary republican party with its namesake has just abandoned, completely, the notion that it has any responsibility to its constituents. To the political system or to the country itself. That the only thing that exists is what narrow, specific, shortsighted thing can i do to win the smallest, tiny bit of power and if it can help you do that, then we will do it, regardless of the consequences. I want to read this for you, tim. It has this kind of pathos to it. Friends, can i ask a small favor? will you all help stop this conspiracy theory junk floating all over facebook and the internet about the floods? for example fema stealing money, body bags that the government denied, bodies not being buried, governments controlling the weather from antarctica and he goes on and it is so earnest. He clearly feels so helpless and i imagine it is a feeling you have felt and many people in the republican party felt. For sure, it is reminiscent of during covid, begging people to take the vaccine. You would see posts like this and the thing that is the most flummoxed thing about all this is that right now, you are helpless to respond to it, in a way. Another example of this, my husband showed me this on his facebook from a friend from high school that posted a picture of trump wading through the water, like trying to help people and the comment on the post was facebook keeps taking this down and like that maddened them. It is funny, but also so depressing and sad. Facebook in this one instance is doing the right thing, taking down this fake a. I. Post, but that is making the matter and making them post it more. They were like, please post more of this. We have to find that by the end of the show, because it is trump in his full suit, standing in water basically up to his mid thigh, i think checking a paper towel roll at someone. I guess the final question to you, jamelle, briefly is how do you rebut it? you know, fact check, whatever, but what you do with it? the only conceivable way to rebut this kind of thing is for other republicans to speak up or for people within the actual community networks to say something. But otherwise there is nothing. This bubble has been constructed and it is basically impossible to pop from the outside. And props to local officials, republicans, the factory owner in springfield. People who have come forward to do that have my gratitude and admiration. Tim miller, jamelle bouie, thank you both. Coming up, the latest evidence donald trump doesn't care about american citizens unless you get something in return. That is next. Xt. Mash it up do. Ever since we introduced him to the farmer's dog, his quality of life has been forever changed. He prefers real, humangrade food. It's. . . . . . Like real food! it is! he's a happy dog now. He's a happy, happy dog. He's a happy, happy, happy dog! speaker: my little miracle is beckett. [christina perri, a thousand years] i have died every day waiting for you. We wouldn't be where we are without saint jude. And in turn, we wouldn't be where we are without those people that have donated. 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With this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. Which makes planning your financial future easier. So call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind with the aarp name. And set yourself and your future self up with an aarp medicare supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. So donald trump is resorting to conspiracy theories and lies to bless the biden administration handling of hurricane helene. We are learning that this was basically a confession of an egregious act trump took when he was president. Two former trump administration officials now tell politico that as president trump hesitated to give disaster aid to areas or ordered special treatment for pro trump states. One of those sources, said that trump initially refused to approve disaster aid for california after deadly wildfires in 2018 because of the states democratic leanings. Harvey said trump changed his mind after putting results showed him heavily damaged orange county, california had more trump supporters than the entire state of iowa. Quote, we went as far as looking up how many votes he got in the impacted areas to show him these are people who voted for you, harvey said. Harvey, who has since endorsed kamala harris, later said for trump there is no empathy for the survivors. It is all about getting the photo op. Disaster theater to make him look good. This is a genuine smoking gun. People who worked for trump, speaking openly on the record about what ought to be an impeachment level offense. An american president refused to sign off on disaster aid to people he thought were not supportive of his ambitions. Trump did exactly what he is falsely accusing the current president of. Also a reminder of what was so upsetting about trump's tenure four years ago, bumbling the country's response to the pandemic. Watching them lie and brag and blame his way through press conferences. It was crystal clear the political consequences were all he cared about. He did not care about whether people got sick door died or how many. He cared about his reelection and political fortunes. He told his vice president mike pence not to call governors which he deemed insufficiently grateful. He talked about limiting testing for covid because more testing would show more sickness and that would look bad for him. Now we have the smoking gun evidence of him basically saying i'm not going to give disaster relief to california because they don't have enough republicans. That is the trump model of governance. I don't think there is anyone who governs like that. Look how joe biden and kamala harris have handled the recent longshoreman strike. Over wages and threatened to bring trade at ports to a halt, which could have and would have likely driven up shortages and costs, spiking inflation a month before the election. Now, the politically safe thing for the biden administration to do would be to intervene, halt the strike, posit and order the workers back to work. That is a power given to the president under the taft hartley act. Previous presidents including richard nixon and george w. Bush have invoked it to stop port strikes, but biden thought that would be selling out the workers and their bargaining. Mister president would you intervene in a dockworker strike if they strike on tuesday? no. Why not? it is collective bargaining. I don't believe in taft hartley. Harris also came out in support, saying it is about fairness and support for the president and vice president strengthen the union's position. After two days the union suspended the strike. Fox news was rooting for a costly strike and sounded pretty disappointed. I've got to prepare all of you to get very angry, because what we are about to share with you will make your blood boil. As most of you know ports along the east coast were shut down this week because of a union leaders demands. We have an update on that and including a reported 75% pay raise for dockworkers. I think the employers are up to 62%. Anyway, a lot of them make six figures. Kamala harris supported this shutdown which caused you, the american people, billions of dollars a day. The strike may be suspended until midjanuary and kamala harris is breathing a sigh of relief. American voters shouldn't. Everything is politics, right? how did it benefit trump? there were not clear benefits to biden and harris supporting the strike. The longshoreman union which endorsed biden in 2020 has not made an and ice made an endorsement this year and i am not sure harris will get the majority of those members. Union voters and most polls support has hit an alltime low for the democratic ticket. This was not really transactional politics as much as i think it was genuine principles that the right thing to do in the moment was to side with labor. That is not to say that both parties don't have political agendas. Of course they are traditional politicians in that sense. For all of the ideological commitments and relationships, they do have some sense of the public interest, like what is right, what is best? they just don't approach every single last decision by first thinking what will get me elected, what will get me more power? that is how donald trump thinks. He is a man who changed a hurricane path with a sharpie because he was ridiculed for misstating where the storm was headed. He autographed a stock tried to take credit for a bump in value in the middle of covid. He is incapable of thinking about others except in the most exploitive ways. We lived through one of the worst examples and it was so dramatic we basically blocked it out. Now we have learned that he really does see the aid as something that only has people deserve. It is possible to expect something more out of our president and the constant transaction of status. You don't have to love joe biden and kamala harris to see they really have an idea of what it means to work for the public interest. You have to be blind to pretend donald trump has any interest in anything other than his own weird and broken ego. En ego. Tw each other. So i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those. We're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest. (husband) so how do your management fees work? (fisher investments) we have a transparent fee, structured so we do better when you do better. At fisher investments, we're clearly different. Swiffer sweeper dry* traps 2x more dust and hair for a clean even mom approves of. 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Whatever you do, do it for less, at harbor freight. ♪♪ track with the election 32 days away, you would think donald trump might be focused on politics, but he seems to be hawking more products than ever. You have gold sneakers available for $499. The trump silver medallion, $100. The official trading card going for a sweet $99. For more discerning tastes, the trump victory watch is a cool $100,000 and the god bless the usa bible can be yours for just $59. 99, good news for the oklahoma department of education whose superintendent needs to secure 55,000 copies of the bible that perfectly fits the trump versions specifications. And now melania trump has a new book. An upcoming memoir priced at $40 or $250 if you want the collectors edition. Cnn reports the former first lady's publisher also tried to get the network to pay her $250,000 in exchange for an interview. That is not the big story so far. So far the bombshell is melania trump's new public defense of abortion rights. Individual freedom is a fundamental principle that i safeguard. Without a doubt there is no room for compromise when it comes to this essential right that all women possess from birth. Individual freedom. What does my body, my choice really mean? what on earth? now for his part, milani as husband, who you may recall killed roe v. Wade, consigning millions of women to have no control over their bodies, brushed it off as the heartfelt opinion of his beloved and independent wife. We spoke about it and they said you have to write what you believe. I'm not going to tell you what to do. You have to write what you believe. She is very beloved. People love our former first lady, i can tell you that, but i said you have to stick with your heart. To be clear this is part of an age old pattern. A craven attempt to appeal to women. Where they speak out for abortion rights in stark contrast to their husbands policies. Betty ford pioneered this nearly 50 years ago. I feel very strongly that it was the best thing in the world when the supreme court voted to legalize abortion and in my words, bring it out of the back woods and put it in the hospitals where it belonged. I thought it was a great, great decision. Jessica is the author of the abortion, every day substack where she wants, don't fall for milani is misdirection and also the author of the essential book, abortion our body, their lines, and the truths we use to win. You had a piece that summed it up where i think you wrote, how stupid do they think we are? apparently pretty stupid. It is really, i mean, maybe she is prochoice. Who knows, right? but it is sort of irrelevant. The fact she is coming out with us a few weeks before the election in a time when her husband is trailing with women at 21 points. At a moment when women are dying from abortion bands all over the news. I don't think that is coincidence. It is pretty craven and disgusting to see actually is someone who writes about this all the time. You wrote melania has always been complicit in her husband's reign of terror and bigotry and now in a moment of suffering she is hawking a $40 book on the back of dead women. One thing i will say about this and this was evident in j. D. Vance's debate performance earlier in the week is that they do, at least understand they are on the wrong side of this and are trying every trick in the book. Denial, lies, evasion, to get away from it. It is all distraction, right? we had trump saying he would cover ivf. Now he says he will veto a national abortion ban, which we know is not true and we know they are using funny games around language and having the first lady come out not just with the statement, but with that video in an ad that looks like a bad 90s perfume commercial. That is all anybody is talking about when it comes to abortion rights news. I guess the question is like, i know you have been sounding the alarm on this on the attempts at gamesmanship and the cynicism of it. It is hard to know. It seems clear from the polling, people do know who is on the side of abortion rights and who is not, but how effective the confusion is unfortunately i think it is pretty effective. There have been all kinds of polls of women in battleground states were buying into the rhetoric that he is giving it back to the states. He wants it to be the will of the people. Do they really believe that or are they using it as an excuse to feel okay voting for trump when they know he is actually antiabortion? i don't know, but the polls indicate that there is some movement on that language and that is why it is so important that we are calling it out whenever we can. Particularly fans i think is an important aspect of this because one of the things i think has benefited trump on the politics of abortion all along is that no one looks at the sky and thinks he has any deeply held belief about any of this. It is so obviously not the case. But j. D. Vance does. J. D. Vance is a true believer. On the record saying i want to national abortion ban. He thinks abortion is murder and his moon walking away from it is really significant. With him you really understand, this is a guy that genuinely has a deep ideological commitment. He called abortion the first political issue he was ever interested in. This is something really important for him. So for him to back away from this, for him to soften his language i think is really meaningful, but even when he tries to do that he sort of gives up the game. In the debate he talked about a friend of his who had an abortion so she could escape an abusive relationship and he sort of brought it up as a way to make himself seem compassionate, but he didn't mention that his laws would have forced her to carry that pregnancy to term and stay with that abusive partner. So even when he is trying to get one over on voters, he sort of can't. There is one more thing and i want to have you explain it because people will hear it. He said i don't support the ban, i wanted a minimum national standard. It is terminology they use that sounds more reasonable, but basically is the same. It is the exact same thing. What they have done is redefine a band to mean an abortion prohibition with zero exceptions even for women's lives. Under that definition, there are no abortion bans in america. When trump says i would veto a national ban, what he is saying is of course i would veto a total prohibition on abortion without exceptions for women's lives. It is sort of the equivalent of crossing your fingers behind her back. We are banning all abortions after 15 weeks is what he uses instead. When he says i want to vote for a man, that is what they mean. They don't think any state has a ban right now under their definition, which is important for people to understand. Which i learned from reading your excellent substack and excellent book, which is called abortion, our bodies, their lines. It is available now. Get one for your household and everyone you love. Still to come, as donald trump demonizes all immigrants in the u. S. , and inside look at the bipartisan immigration bill that trump tanked just to try to get reelected. Next. So you can keep on rolling. [bowling pins knocked down] when you overdo it, undo it with pepto bismol. I made a promise to my daughter that i would get my college degree. I had 20 years of experience as an hr professional. I had reached a ceiling, so i enrolled in umgc. Umgc removes every barrier. 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Zevo attracts and traps bugs 24/7 using a blue and uv light with no odor and no mess for effortless protection. Zevo. Peoplefriendly. Bugdeadly. The economy has had a soft landing. People understand that inflation has come down after prepandemic level. Democrats have countered by talking about the bipartisan border bill that donald trump sank earlier this year. I spoke to chris murphy one of the legislators responsible. One of the teams that negotiated putting the bills together on my podcast why is this happening. We talked about what the bill had. The good, the bad, the ugly. And just how close murphy and the republican party came to getting the thing passed. There were many moments where i thought this is all intentional. Republicans picked the issue of immigration as the hill to die on. Because they knew we couldn't get an agreement and they would be an excuse on why they countered. By the time we had gotten the bill done and had done the hard work of we thought building about 20 republican senators who were going to support it. Yes i did believe that saturday, sunday when we unveiled the bill that we were actually going to pass it. Because mcconnell was in the room for all of it. His people negotiated the bill. As we were ready to release it on sunday night we really thought we had, you know probably 40 democrats. And about 20 to 25 republicans. We thought we had enough to pass it. It was a really, really fascinating conversation. Senator murphy does a great job of explaining all the different angles to the challenges and problems of the current immigration situation. Also a fascinating look at how the political sausage gets made or not. Sausage gets made or not. Incoming dishes. —ahhh! —duck! dawn powerwash flies through 99% of grease and grime in half the time. Yeah, it absorbs grease five times faster. Even replaces multiple cleaning products. 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Relieve fatigue, and stop further joint damage. And in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. Serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. People 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. Done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. And take back what's yours. Abbvie could help you save. Oh. . . Stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. Just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. Breathe. Ahhhhhh! violence in the middle east continues to escalate with much the region bracing for what will happen next. Late lasting night, israel launched intense strikes on beirut's southern suburbs. Israeli officials said they were targeting hezbollah's presumed new leader after the death of hassan as he met with other members of the group. As of now, casualties are unknown. Now this comes as israel's bombardment intensely bombed neighborhoods has left 2,000 people dead and a million displaced and filling shelters according to local officials. Right now it's still unclear how israel will respond to iran's ballistic. Yesterday president biden was asked about the possibility of israel hitting iran's oil refiners. What do you support israel striking iran's oil facilities, sir? we're discussing that. I think that would be a little, any way. Now, i don't think that's exactly what you're supposed to say in response to that question. Today he was asked this question again, had a different answer. Could you clarify some of your comments yesterday with regard to strikes on iranian air facilities. What did you mean by them given some of the reactions forseen in the market. Look, the israelis have not concluded what they're going to do in terms of a strike. That's under discussion. I think they are, if i were in their shoes, i would be thinking about other alternatives than striking oil fields. You can't under estimate the enormous geopolitical consequences of this current war and where it could go, right. It's also 33 days until the election and it's hard not to imagine there will also be major political consequence s if israel were to engage a reretaliatory strike. Ben rose is the final advisor for strategic communications and speech writing under president bo barack obama and he joins me now. Well, ben. What do you think about where we're at right now? i mean, we're basically living through the worse case scenario, chris. Because everywhere this escalates it gets worse. A strike on iranian oil fields hugely disruptive to obviously energy prices. Incentivizing them to throw all caution to have the wind in their responses. They could hit other gulf oil fields they've threaten to do that in retaliation. They could go after military in iraq. Hezbollah could become fully mobilized in terror. It's hard to see where this is going. When you have to come out the day you said something else it's never good. Yeah, i mean, i was pushed back a little bit because i think we do have an end mind on this. From the beginning they said, look they're going to go hard at gaza and we're going to tolerate a certain level of civilian casualties. Extraordinarily high. We haven't quite seen at this level in recent times. And at some point, we're going to try to get some deal that gets the rest of the hostages home. Brings the conflict to a stop. I think the netanyahu government an i think the war cabinet particularly after the success of that cell phone strike on hezbollah and then killing, actually iran's week we can start another frontier, we can do to lebanon and hezbollah what we've done. And maybe topple the iranian regime which benjamin netanyahu seemed to what he was saying. Let's clean it all out. That seems to be the end goal. That's not even an end goal in the middle east. Because hezbollah is not going to go away no matter how many of their leaders you kill. They are going to come back as something else. You can topple this version of the iranian, this is why we learned in the iraq war. We should have that will there's not like a military solution that you can pose on all the middle east. No matter how much you dominate the situation. Underneath this chris because we are understandably focused on our politics and israels. There are 2 million people displaced. Every single person is displaced. More children have been killed in gaza than any other civilian wars. We have been numbed to that. At some point there needs to be an alternative vision for where this is all going. Right now the administration is playing catch up. And they're not laying out kind of where they think this should all go. I want to play you the president's response today came out to the break room to take questions on netanyahu. Take a listen. Do you have any worries that netanyahu may be trying to influence the election and that's why he has not agreed to a diplomatic solution? no administration has helped israel more than i have. None. None. None. And i think maybe he should remember that. And whether he's trying to influence the election, i don't know. But i'm not counting on that. There really seems to be a very strange passivity here is the only way i can describe it. It's the willful suspension of disbelief. It's not like this was unbelievable. Netanyahu has done everything, some of his supporters would acknowledge this is someone who always has an eye on politics. Clearly he's been ignoring the theory that joe biden had is if he hugged israel and did everything for them that he wanted until october 7th that would give him influence. And it didn't work, chris. I know it's hard to acknowledge that a strategy didn't work. I've been in a white house that has struggled to do that. The u. S. Didn't even know about the strike attack. You wonder if that was true with iran. You have to acknowledge the fact that netanyahu clearly knows the chaos right now is working to trump's advantage. All right, ben rhodes, always great to talk to you. Thank you very much. That is all in for this week. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good 'king alex. Good evening alex. Good evening my friend. I am thinking

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