academy award nominations will be released later this month and on the short list for the best documentary is a film called "beyond utopia." it tells a powerful story about people trying to defect from north korea. with danger lurking around every corner, but also a sprawling network of people risking their own lives to help. the film makers got extraordinary up close footage of one family's harrowing journey. to talk about that story and what it tells us about north korea, i spoke to the film's director and one of the film's producer, a former cia analyst. welcome, both of you. let me start with you. you know, when i was at news week, we once did a kind of, the worst countries in the world