at this point. you have the winter and summer other l owe lick pims every two years. presidential election, yes, they will do better. nonelection years and you have a president saying we don't do breaking news that doesn't leave a lot of compelling reasons for me to go to m scht nsnbc when i go to cnn or fox. >> couldn't this all turn out to be temporary when we get into a period where there is not a lot of breaking news, couldn't a lot of viewers go back to msnbc because they like watching chris matthew, rachel maddow, you name it? >> sure. the trayvon martin story, that's something that is a scheduled breaking news event. they say they will own that story. the problem is that their credibility there is shaken because you have an al sharpton who has led rallies y s iies in of trayvon martin.