Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

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Tonight, straight from the source, President Biden, urging the world not to grow weary on standing with ukraine. That might be a tougher sell in washington. The republican chair of the Foreign Affairs committee is here with me. Plus, what a central witness in the Trump Classified documents case is now reportedly cole told federal investigators. Something that the ex president has nearly urged her not to tell them. And if Rudy Giuliani did not have enough legal problems that were already facing, they got a lot worse. He is now being sued by his own attorney. Im kaitlan collins, and this is the source. In a rare visit to the United States, ukrainian president president Volodymyr Zelenskyy is issuing a blunt warning about russia, saying that evil cannot be trusted. He was speaking today to World Leaders at the United Nations General Assembly here in new york, in person. But its not clear if all of the World Leaders who were or even some republicans in washington got that message. This is what zelenskyy told wolf blitzer, about what is on the line in this fight. We hear their voices on the front line, and we hear them, and they are the motivators. The russians are demotivated, they are afraid of us, and all putin wants now, all the things he wants is really to push the United States, to change the minds of society, to push the eu partners to change the mind of the people of the eu. And ensure that only by propaganda, he can he cannot lose this war. President biden is also here in new york where he will rally otherworldly years behind ukraine, urging democracies to stand by their core principles. Russia believes that the world will grow weary, and allow it to brutalize ukraine without consequence. But we have to stand up to this negative today, and deter other pressures tomorrow. If you were listening closely to President Bidens speech today, that message was not just intended for the World Leaders, and the diplomats who are gathered here in new york, that impassioned plea was also intended for lawmakers back in washington where some republicans on the farright are fighting against more funding for ukraine. That is only part of why we could see the be just 11 days away from the federal government running out of money. The Republican Party is so far apart right now on agreeing on how to fund the government, House Republicans were even voting against their own defense bill on capitol hill today. That almost never happens. House speaker Kevin Mccarthy is working today to keep his party together, but also to keep his job. All of this is happening as president zelenskyy said to visit washington later on this week. Tonight, one of the key republicans who is not only meeting with the ukrainian leader, but who is also on the front lines of fighting to keep the government open is here with me. We and lets get straight to the source, with the chairman of the house Foreign Affairs committee, texas congressman michael mccaul. Congressman, thank you for being here. President biden says that the u. S. Will continue to stand with quote, the brave people of ukraine. But a vocal faction of your party is saying no to more money. Do you think your party will eventually vote to pass another aid package to ukraine . Well i do think the majority, the majorities in both the house and Senate Support this effort. We will be meeting with zelenskyy on thursday, that will be the House Republican leadership, now i think we also need answers. We have the support to dropped on us. We need to know, a lot of members want to know what is the plan for victory . What, why are we putting the weapons into ukraine that we need to win, rather than a slow bleeding survival rate, that was counterproductive to the counter offensive. So i think you know, republicans want to support this, but seeing at the administration not really managing it very well, and they also want to make sure that our nato partners are paying their fair share of the price tag on. This but a lot of the republicans who are voicing opposition to funding more funding for ukraine, arent making those conditions. Some of them are, people like Speaker Mccarthy has talked about wanting to know where is going. But several of them are not, they are not saying they have questions, they are just saying no more funding, period. Right, and i think thats still not the majority. But i will say that i think it is in our National Security interest for ukraine to win. But we need to see a plan, or for congress to draft the plan for victory. And i think thats one of the bigger issues here, is that we dont want a long, dragged out war. Putin wants a war of attrition. And, that is what he is getting right now. And the longer this drags, up to the more difficult is going to be, because he knows he can drag the will of the American People down, and perhaps our european partners. I want to see ukraine when, because it has enormous stakes from the National Security standpoint. You know, it will directly impact how chairman xi in china views taiwan. So now we have the largest invasion in europe since world war ii, the greatest threat to the pacific. And if we dont get this right, then we want to find ourselves having to commit u. S. Troops, which so far we havent had to commit one u. S. Soldier. Well given that, congressman, when Speaker Mccarthy was asked today about committing to another round of funding, this was his answer. Is zelenskyy elected to congress . Is he our president . I dont think i have to do anything. I have questions for, where is the accountability and the money we already spent a . What is the plan for victory . I think that is what the American Public wants to know. You are talking about the majority, the majority supporting this. Does that seem like a House Speaker to you, who does want to pass more funding for ukraine . Well, the speaker i know supports our efforts in ukraine, but he is raising questions that we hear from our conference all the time. And i think we are going to meet with zelenskyy, i certainly support this effort, but i think as this war drags out, there are more and more questions for our members about, what is the plan for victory . Why arent you putting the weapons that are necessary to win, rather than to just survive . This counteroffensive is not going as well as we had hoped, and we dont want a, long drag out war of attrition. But you know the white house and Jake Sullivan have taken a slow walk, in terms of weapons systems. Why are they giving the attack weapons that could hit crimea . I dont understand that, and i have been a strong critic about this. Now, im going to support ukraine, because it is the right side of history, and the right thing to do, but there are mounting and growing concerns within our party, and our conference, and questions that quite frankly, deserve answers. I also want to ask, you given you are the chairman of house Foreign Affairs, about this deal that was made to bring Five Americans who are wrongfully detained in iran home. I mean we saw their families celebrating, crying as they were finally able to greet them, and to hug them. Do you think that this was the wrong deal . Thats what we are worried about, because. Well first of all, to unleash and unfreeze, it frees up these sanctioned assets. Six billion dollars, to the largest State Sponsor of terror. You know, the Jcpoa Under Obama was only half a billion dollars. And now, we are pouring Six Billion Dollars in to the Islamic Republic of iran, that they will then. And i was told, for humanitarian purposes only, but now we heard from the president of iran, that is going to be used for any purpose they want. That would include their terror proxies, whether he has, bahamas, shia militias. All throughout the middle east, and since that time, you have seen iran kick out a third of the iea, thats International Atomic energy agency, and inspectors out over on. And now, the saudis are questioning whether they should be doing this deal with israel. Its having a direct impact. And kaitlan to be honest with you, our chief negotiator, mr. Ma, lee is now under investigation for the mishandling of classified documents. And we still havent gone to the bottom of that, so there are a lot of questions. On the assets themselves. I mean, they are frozen iranian assets that were in south korea, that they are essentially unfreeze. Its not like money that is going to them. And the white house says they will have strict oversight of. But i do want to ask, you because all of this is part of, separate from iran, but back to ukraine, we were talking about that. What we are seeing happen where you, are on capitol hill right now, this fight over funding the government. I mean, the House Republicans today were even voting against their own defense bill, is all of this, the fight that is happening overspending, and funding the government really worth a japanese and Service Members paychecks . No i dont think so. I agree with you. And the 20 years in congress, ive never seen the rule brought on a defense appropriations bill. I think its disrespectful to our active duty, to our veterans, and to our current Service Members. They deserve better thans from congress, its a good bill. And you know, you know who is enjoying this more than anybody kaitlan, is chairman xi, in china. He often says to the to taiwan, or he says to us, democracy doesnt work, democracy is a failure. I can make a decision like that, and i am more effective than democracy. And what i worry about is, we just proved him right, with this vote today, taking down the rule on a defense appropriations bill, that is desperately needed. Im to the National Defense authorization bill, which is an authorization. But for god sakes, if were going to authorize, weve got to fund our department of defense, we are putting ourselves in jeopardy, and in boding our adversaries, to which i would say that this ukraine thing is tied to that as well. Because you know, you are talking about iran putting drones in ukraine. And now, putin is begging kim jim, panhandling for weapons and money. And he is aligned with. Why is your party so dysfunctional . Why cant they get the spending bills passed . It is a handful. But they are able to take down potentially not funding the government . I think against the will of the American People. You are talking about five members, that dont represent the conference in my judgment. They may have their own reasons, but i dont quite understand it. And i think its dangerous, because our adversaries are watching. And when they see Something Like this take place on the house floor, it only emboldens our adversaries, it does not strike any fear into them. And, that is dangerous. I want to follow up with you on something you said recently about the Impeachment Inquiry that has just been launch into President Biden. This is what you said, for our viewers who didnt hear that. With respect to Foreign Policy decisions the president may have, made or the Vice President at that time, with respect to money coming in to try to tie the two. We dont have the evidence now, but we may find it later. Congressman, are you acknowledging that you dont have the evidence against President Biden . And if so, why pursue that impeachment curry . One i just have the committee is that were having this investigation continue to do so, why take this next step, if theres not evidence to pack it up . Well, i think there. Obviously as a u. S. Attorney, i think there is predication, enough predication to open an investigation into that. And what do i mean . 20 million in wire transfers going to hunter biden, and possibly family members. And its not just me, the judge, the federal judge throughout the plea agreement, which is almost unprecedented, based upon the brief of the irs whistle blower, that talked about how his leads to the family were cut off by a higher levels, at the Justice Department. Thats not supposed to happen in justice, and thats where the federal judge did what she did, and its also why Merrick Garland has now appointed weiss as a special prosecutor, to investigate. This we havent seen anything tied directly to President Biden, that is the issue i think the people of raised from the inquiry. Well, its too early in the investigation. The Justice Department has decided to open this. Investigation the federal. Judge thinks but not into President Biden. Hunter biden is separate from this. I am saying, any evidence directly tied to President Biden. That is the impeach or inquiry to President Biden, not under, might obviously as you know. While i work as the doj for many years. I worked on the johnny. Case where we had all this money coming from china in the shell corporations. And then laundered to go in this is whet that that corporations that no i , still no h tha t thank up next tonig brand york times, that a in the trump cost case. This is a longtime aide to the former president , who worked for him in the white house, travel with him to maralago, and now apparently has been talking to federal investigators, and has told him something he did not want them to know. Plus, Rudy Giuliani, already struggling with his mounting legal bills, now his former longtime lawyer wants him to pay up. Built on insights and innovative technology. You get grit, vision, and the creativity to guide you through a changing world. I have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Thanks to skyrizi im playing with clearer skin. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. And skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. With skyrizi, nothing on my skin means everything nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. Learn how abbvie could help you save. Were not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. Were not an airline, but our Network Connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. Were not a startup, but our Innovation Labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. Were not architects, but we help build stronger communities. Were not just any bank. We are citi. [coughing] when caroline has a cough she takes robitussin. So, she can have those one on ones again. Hey jim hey can we talk about your yoga breaks . Sure. Get fast, powerful cough relief with robitussin, and find your voice. Robitussin has now apparently told investigators that he wanted her to apparently ally to them. Or at least, certainly not tell them the truth. Molly michaels was trumps assistant in the white house, and after his presidency. The New York Times is reporting tonight that trump wanted her to say that she didnt know anything about the boxes containing classified documents that were found at his florida resort and taken with him when he left office. When he learned that federal officials wanted to speak with her, he told her, according to the New York Times, quote, you dont know anything about the boxes. That, of course, would be the boxes that prayer this federal indictment were openly stored in a maralago ballroom and about through, among other places, at the former president s property. Michael also reportedly told investigators that trump would use documents with classified markings to jot down to do lists for her. For perspective on what this evidence means to investigators, i am joined now by former federal prosecutor elliott williams, and former Deputy Director of the fbi elliott, let me start with you. I think the obvious question here is how strong is this testimony how strong could it be when it comes to what trump is facing, which are Obstruction Charges . These are acts of obstruction, at least as alleged. I dont think based on whats available right now that the Justice Department would charge him within just just this conduct here. What you have is the statement of one witness. As far as we know, its not corroborated by anything else. There are Test Messages establishing it. But this is an act of Obstruction Of Justice if what she is saying is true. What you have is a defendant who is aware of an open investigation, and hes urging another person to either influence, delay, or prevent her testimony. Thats right out of the Obstruction Of Justice statute. So at a minimum, its valuable testimony, it speaks to sort of character and misconduct in a guilty mind, even if they dont charge him with it. And i think it makes a important point, because this isnt just one isolated thing. We already know from the indictment that trump made a Plucking Motion with his hand when he was speaking with his attorney, evan corcoran, about documents that the attorney believed if theres anything bad in there, for him to essentially remove it. So taken all together, what does this mean for their case . Well, i think its shows us, caitlin, that the prosecutors have a lot of evidence that were not even aware of yet. The indictment itself was incredibly detailed, kind of a speaking indictment, as they like to say. And it certainly gave us a great vision into the strength of their case. But beyond that, they are sitting on testimony of witnesses like michael who provide these incredibly vivid, glimpses into the weight was done in and around maralago. And i think this the reporting that were talking about tonight, about this alleged comment to michael that you dont know anything about the boxes, the context is incredibly important. So allegedly he made that comment to her after she told him that shed been requested to be interviewed by the fbi. So in response to learning about her eminence interview with the bureau, he responds with essentially a direction to forget anything you know about the boxes, or you dont know anything about the boxes. Its really very a damaging, very damaging testimony, potentially damaging testimony to the former president. And its just a piece of what were learning right now. There may be others. Elliott, Chris Christie has been not shy when it comes to criticizing trump. He said last night that all of the comments trump keeps making about the Election Subversion Case could make his attorneys want to vomit. That was the quote he used. He was also asked about this new reporting tonight, and this is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. This is what he said. And so you dont know anything about my boxes. My boxes of documents. That is active witness tampering. Hes a former federal prosecutor, what do you make of that . I think hes absolutely right. It is active witness tampering. And it actually might be able to be admitted as evidence, even if hes not charged with that specific act. Because, and this sort of touches on what andrew was talking about before. There are other instances of a specific intent to obstruct justice. The Plucking Motion, take these documents out, and so on. It might be able to come to court where you could have testify, on another occasion, hes not charged with this conduct. But on another occasion he sought to have me to almost the same thing. Its a pattern of conduct in the same stream of events. But i think the governors absolutely right there. This is tampering with a witness. When you charge someone with a crime, you have to sort of fit their conduct to the statute, statutes arent always written entirely clearly. This one is. If youre tampering with someone to get in the way of their testimony, and thats kind of whats she appears to be saying happened here. Elliott, you would call her to testify . Based on what is publicly available now, yes. Again, i dont know, for instance, her background. If theres anything on which she could be impeached in terms of credibility. Again, i dont know this individual. Does she have a criminal history, or anything else. Those are the kinds of things that prosecutors have to think about before deciding whether to call somebody. Could they be undermined in some way . But based on this reporting, certainly, its certainly valuable. Obviously, the media that you think about when you read the story is the i. T. Worker who was also told to, instructed to delete surveillance footage. These are all people that worked for donald trump, some still work for him, that could be called in that very situation to testify. Yeah, so as weve all been kind of expecting after the drop of the indictment, your now seeing the government line up full blooded cooperators who are going to take the stand in the governments case and testify against their former boss, the former president of the United States. So tavares is a key witness, but even tavares, to what we know so far and whats publicly reported, did not have a direct interaction with trump about the direction to delete the servers. Michael is potentially more significant in that regard, because what shes relating is a conversation with trump, in which he is allegedly making this direction to obstruct justice, and impede her testimony. So it could be a very powerful testimony. Thats a good point. Its one step closer to him and the other witnesses. Andrew mccabe, andrew williams, thank you for your expertise on this. Up next, the head of the United Auto Workers union is now pushing back at former President Donald Trump, who was planning his own trip to detroit, as the first ever strike against all Big Three Automakers at once is now well into day five. How do we decide what hotel to book . Fear not, i got you. Choice hotels has a hotel for every type of stay. Like a comfort with the kiddos. Spacious thats what they all say. You founded your Kayak Company because you love the ocean not spreadsheets. You need to hire. I need indeed. Indeed you do. Indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. Visit indeed. Com hire the head of the United Auto Workers union and now on day five of a strike against the Big Three Automakers has words for former President Donald Trump after he announced plans to skip the second Republican Debate next week, and announced a Counter Program with a speech to autoworkers in detroit. The president , sean fain, once essentially no part of that visit and said today, quote, every fiber of our union is being coordinated to fighting the billionaire class. A at the expense of workers. We cant keep electing billionaires and millionaires that dont have any understanding of what its like to live paycheck to paycheck. Fame has not exactly, i should note, had kind words for President Biden either, despite how the president embraced his strike in some notable comments next week. Joining me now for perspective on all of this, former white house you indications director, and the former National Committee Communications Director so doug, ill start with you. Trump is clearly trying to win over the rank and file members here. Hes criticizing the leaders in the strike. How does that work as hes trying to court the voters . Do you think he has any chance of success here . There is a real difference. Theres the medium and theres the audience. And the medium is exactly that. The uaw, the leadership, those places where he would go to and go through. The audience is much broader than not. Thats everybody that donald trump appealed to in 2016, a lot of whom he lost in 2020 to joe biden. But where he had a message that, remember, he said. Hillary clinton says im with her, im with you. Thats going to be Donald Trumps message here when he speaks to auto and the broader audience that looks at this. And thats where donald trump could have success here, and its why i think democrats should be a little nervous here. Donald trump gets it in a way, and i say this as somebody whos not a fan of donald trump. He gets it in a way that audiences outside of those thought bubbles in washington and new york and in this case detroit understand and cause real consternation, i think, potentially for democrats. You worked in the white house not that long ago. I wonder what you make of the situation playing out right now, where President Biden said that he was going to send two of his top aides. Weve now learned that that trip has been scrapped. Were seeing some lawmakers like congressman ro khanna saying that biden himself should join the picket line. If you are in the white house, what would your advice be . I would want to do everything that i could to show that President Biden is standing with the workers that are out on strike, and im certain that that the what the president and his team are going to. But i think making sure that they are providing help and resources for the union wants it and not where they dont. But i think the thing here thats different, i was listening to doug and i agree with some of what hes saying, but theres a key difference here between 2016 and now, which is that donald trump is effectively an incumbent. Donald trump now has a record four years of factored Breeze Closing under his watch, jobs going overseas, of him saying things like your job to go overseas and then you can negotiate better deals here. Lets see what you like that. He has a record that he has to defense, and i think the contrast here with President Biden, who was created 800,000 Manufacturing Jobs since he took office and has helped create will lead a manufactured boom in this country, that economic contrast is intense and thats where the Biden Campaign is going to try to drive the comparison here. Yeah, i mean, the uaw hasnt endorsed him yet. Hes got to earn it. But doug, for your party, senator tim scott had an interesting comment today, compared to other 2024 hopefuls who are all being asked to weigh in on this, when he was asked he invoked former president ronald reagan, who once fired more than 11,000 air Traffic Controllers who are on strike. This is what senator scott said. Ronald reagan gave us a great example, when fellow employees decided to strike. He said, if you strike, youre fired. Simple concept to me. I mean, doug, the difference here is United Auto Workers members, theyre not federal employees. The president cant fire the. Theres federal labor laws that protect them. What did you make of those comments . I think it highlights and weve seen this on a lot of issues, the way Donald Trumps entrance into the Republican Party, and then obviously running for president , has caused republicans to morphine so many different ways, and then split. And so what tim scotts stating is where republican orthodoxy may still be, certainly used to be, donald trump is presenting a different vision to that were a lot of the party is going. Think about the issue of trade as well, and heres where it gets slightly complicated, kaitlin. When you are talking to mike mccaul, one of my favorite members of congress earlier, talking about the shutdown. The longer, if a shutdown happens, the longer it goes on, the more unpredictable it is on how theres a resolution and what the fallout might be. The longer the strike goes on, the same thing. Kate, do you agree with that . I do agree with that. And i would feel confident that the white house is again working to help come to a resolution as quickly as possible, however they can help to that. Certainly i dont think anybody wants to see the strike extent on and on. Of course, theres unpredictability when you do that. But i think for the president , the key here is for him to use this moment and use donald trump being in detroit next week to really draw the comparison on whom has stood for workers and who has made this economy better for working people, like the people who were out on strike right now. Well be there on wednesday night. Well watch that closely. Kate bedingfield, doug heye, thank you both. Thank you. Ahead, an emotional reunion happen today for five former iranian hostages who are now back in america, hugging their loved ones for the first time in a very long time. Someone who knows all too well what a hug like that feels like is here with me tonight. Former russian prisoner and u. S. Marine trevor reed. He joins me next. [clock alarm] morning. Life after student debt is within reach. Refi at sofi. Com. You could save thousands and get to your goals faster. Sofi. Get your money right. Before and bath fitter. Before and bath fitter. 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And let you see any doctor. Any specialist. Anywhere in the u. S. Who accepts medicare patients. So if you have this. Consider adding this. Call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. Yeah tonight, Five Americans have been reunited with their families after being freed from years of wrongful detention in iran. [applause] the man you see there descending those stairs is siamak novosti, pausing, taking his first step on u. S. Soil for the first time in eight years. He and four others embraced their loved ones on the tarmac outside of washington, as one of The Americans was overheard telling his wife in two daughters, quote, were home. Over the last two years, we counted 30 americans have been free, including wnbas are brittney griner, who of course, as we all remember, was released last december after nearly ten months in russian captivity. And also trevor reed, a marine veteran who was freed in april of last year after being wrongfully detained for nearly three years in russia. Trevor reed joins me now. Of course, the best perspective that only a very few people do. And of course, the criticism that weve heard over the terms of this, the unfreezing of the Six Billion Dollars in iranian revenue is unwarranted. That of course it is also important to know that this was not u. S. Taxpayer money. But i want to listen, for those who havent heard, to what republicans are saying about this deal. It is a quid pro quo. Its cold torrents of payment. Its the latest example of President Biden rewarding and incentivizing irans bad behavior. America is now more of a target for iran than they were before. Every enemy we have are now going to be realizing that if they take americans, they can get Six Billion Dollars to. We will never, ever pay ransom to terrorists or terrorist states. Trevor, what do you make of that . First off, i just like to say that that has no bearing on reality. So, if you look at my case as one example, the russians took paul we are linen hostage, when the United States asked them to release him, they immediately asked for concessions to make an exchange to get something in exchange for paul. And the United States refused to negotiate with them. Which is what a lot of people are saying, well, if you negotiate with them then theres no reason why they should take americans hostage. So the United States did not negotiate, they refused to negotiate to bring paul whelan home. And after that, the russians took me hostage. At that point, the u. S. Government also refused to negotiate too get me home, and after that they gave Britney Griner a hugely disproportionate sentence, which was completely political. So, if you just look at that one example, i think you can see anyone that is reasonable can see that refusing to negotiate with these governments does not guarantee that theyre not going to take other hostages. And any of those governments that are already taking americans hostage, they dont need an incentive to take americans hostage. We are going to continue to do that. Their incentive for taking americans hostage is that there are americans, and they can show that to their own citizens. That theyve done, that they cited the u. S. , theyve embarrassed us, and the United States cant do anything about it. Thats enough for them. They dont need material concessions, a hostage, money, if they can get those things, they will try to do that. But thats not going to stop them from continuing to take hostages. You also seem to be saying this through the lens of, even if a Prisoner Swap or a negotiated deal like this one is potentially politically disadvantageous to a lawmaker or to a president , or even maybe strategically the risk here, you still think its the right move to make. Absolutely. Ands you know, President Biden and his administration are doing this. Theyve obviously done that because they thought that is a Cool Decision to make. You know, President Biden and his administration are not fools. They knew that as soon as they did this there was going to be Harsh Criticism of that administration. And this is quite soon before an election, so i think that him doing that, that was probably rooted in his morals and his feeling that he needed to do what was right. Over politics. Just seeing the images of The Americans returning home, i mean, it obviously made me think of you returning home and obviously your parents have been outside the white house so many times, advocating to get the white house to negotiate for your release. You know what its like. What are they going through tonight . You know, everybody handles that differently and goes through their own experience. But, for me, especially those first hours, theyre just incredibly surreal. You dont feel like its real, you feel like maybe thats not happening, maybe youre imagining that, maybe your dreaming of that. It takes a while for that kind of feeling to go away before you can start feeling actual real emotions. Yeah, i cant even imagine. I dont think many people can. Trevor reed, thank you for coming on and sharing your experience with us. Thank you, caitlin. Also tonight, another story that we are tracking. Rudy giuliani, we have talked about this many times. He was already strapped for cash. His former client donald trump is not directly helping him with his legal bills. He refused to do so directly. But now giulianis longtime lawyer and defender is suing him, marking a new low that the former new york mayor has. And now too. Get healthier, smoother feeling skin all day. There are too many options. How do we decide what hotel to book . Fear not, i got you who are you . Im your fairy hotel mother. What is happening . Let me help you pick a hotel you feel good about. Choice hotels is a family of brands, with a hotel for every type of stay. Like a comfort with the kiddos. Oooo, spacious or, a Cambria Hotel downtown for just the two of you. Hold my wand. Dont wave it at anything. Mmm yeah what did i say . travel. There is nothing like it dancing is my passion. But with my moderatetosevere eczema, it hasnt always been easy. I was constantly itching. Whatever i was doing now, im staying ahead of my eczema theres a power inside all of us to live our passion. 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Right Rudy Giuliani was already on the verge of financial breaking point, but tonight, his problems have gotten much worse. He is now being sued for more than one point 3 million by his own lawyer. The firm that was representing giuliani said that he only paid 214, 000, a small drop in the bucket, of the one point 5 million that he owed. His most recent payment was just for 10,000. Adding to the problem, he already owes billions of dollars to various law firms, not just this one, when it comes to fees related to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Those bills keep piling up as hes not just facing that, also a Sexual Assault and harassment case, and could have to pay damages for his lies about two Georgia Election workers. Of course, on top of all that, 13 criminal charges over the attempted election subversion in that case. Andrew craftsman has literally written the book on giuliani, hes here with me. Hes the author of giuliani, the riot and tragic fall of americas mayor. Before we get to the money, bob costello and Rudy Giuliani have had a relationship that dates back decades. This is a big breaking point. Sure. Almost half a century. And i dont think that giuliani values anyone as much as his former Justice Department colleagues. Right . Its his life as a prosecutors intrinsic to who he is. So giulianis comment today, its heads a note of betrayal. I cant believe that he wouldnt do this. But then in classic giuliani fashion, he attacks him for inflating the bill. Yeah. Thats what he said, how could you take a personal front when he owes my firm nearly 1. 4 billion . But he said, quote, i cant express how purslane by what bob costello has done in saying that this was excess of legitimate legal fees. Bob cteo has played a very Important Role in giuliani s recent life. Since taking over i guess as attorney about four years ago. Costello has tried to get giuliani out of trouble almost as fast as giuliani has gotten himself into trouble. I mean, one of the striking things about the lawsuit i read today was just how much trouble giuliani has gotten himself into over four years. Costello has represented him through four investigations, three of them criminal, ten civil suits, two hearings, and i dont even know if that includes the Sexual Harassment suit by a former employee. Giuliani has just this deep attraction to danger. And he has no one to blame but himself. I mean, all of the problems that he is facing right now are a result of his personal recklessness, which is a giuliani trait. You mentioned the last four years, all of that also goes back to his dealings with donald trump. Thats true. I mean, there was the ukraine scandal, there was the effort to overturn the election. There was the Defamation Case that he triggered a by criticizing those two election workers. There was dominion, there was smartmatic. Its all in service of donald trump, and i think if one day giuliani ends up sitting in a jail cell, he is really going to have to think through whether it was all worth it. When you look at The Big Picture you and i have spoken a lot about Rudy Giuliani, and you covering him, what he was then, what he is now. This break with bob costello, his own attorney, a very loyal defender of his. Where do you put that in with all of this . Well, i mean, giuliani is growing broke. Hes going broke and hes facing prison. And his catastrophic fall is just one of the great kind of rise and falls of our generation. I mean, giuliani was once worth 100 million. His partners was founded right after 9 11 to capitalize on his 9 11 fame. The place made 100 Million Dollars over five years. Giuliani has squandered it, hes had several divorces, he lived very high. His ex wife said that they were burning through 250,000 a month on sheer fun. A month. I mean, he lived very well. And now he is penniless and facing prison. Its an extraordinary story. Whats the future for giuliani looked like . I mean, its a very hard to see how he gets himself out of all of this trouble. I mean, hes just facing so many civil suits. So many criminal investigations. Hes in a world of trouble. Yeah. Andrew kirtzman, you have documented all of it. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thanks for having. Me as a Government Shutdown is looming, some republican senators have been squabbling about a new relaxed dress code, taking special aim at john fetterman, who says the right is losing their minds. Ill tell you, next. Somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. uplifting music nothing is everything im celebrating my clearer skin. My way. With skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. In another study, most people had 90 clearer skin, even at 5 years. 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