Transcripts For CNNW The Situation Room 20150102

We are following two major breaking stories. Despite rough seas and dangerous weather conditions searchers now have recovered 30 bodies from the wreckage of that airasia jet that crashed. Crews also discovered more parts of the airliner including what appears to be one of the window panels. However, whats become of the black boxes, that is still a mystery. Also breaking president obama is punishing north korea including top individuals in kim jonguns government for the cyber attack on Sony Pictures. We have correspondents and analysts standing by. Here in the situation room and around the globe. Lets begin now with cnns senior white house correspondent, jim acosta whos traveling with the president in hawaii. Tell us about these sanctions and just how much of an impact theyll have. Reporter brianna, taking care of a serious piece of business at the end of his vacation here in hawaii president obama is turning up the heat on north korea in response to the cyber attack on sony. The Obama Administration maintains north korea was behind that attack and Officials Say the sanctions announced today are only the beginning. Happy new year. Reporter the new sanctions ordered by president obama are being dubbed by the white house as broad and powerful and only the new response to the new alleged attack on Sony Pictures. Senior administration Officials Say theyre aimed at any and all officials of the north korean regime. Specifically blocked from any dealings with any American Financial firms, rgb and its primary arms dealer. The executive order adds to sanctions already in place and is not targeted at the people of north korea. But rather is aimed at the government of north korea and its activities that threaten the United States and others. The president vowed to hold pyongyang responsible just before leaving for his annual vacation in hawaii. They caused a lot of damage. And we will respond. We will respond proportionally and well respond in a place and time and manner that we choose. Reporter in an interview with cnn, mr. Obama called north koreas action a kind of cyber vandalism the u. S. Will be dealing with for years to come. Were going to be in an environment in this new world where so much is digitalized that both state and nonstate actors are going to have the capacity to disrupt our lives in all sorts of ways. We have to do a much better job of guarding against that. We have to treat it like we would treat the incidence of crime in our countries. Reporter the white house appeared to suggest the u. S. Was not behind that vast internet outage in north korea in the days after the president s comments. The press secretary said the sanctions are the first aspect of our response. A Senior Administration official went further saying the u. S. Is not ruling out the possibility that north korea may have done it to themselves. Now, just how much these sanctions will pinch north koreas already isolated economy is unclear. Senior administration Officials Say the u. S. Is not certainly whether the ten people targeted in the sanctions even have assets in the u. S. But the white house made it very clear today theyre just getting warmed up. Well be standing by to see what else is happening then. Jim, thank you so much. Were also learning more about why the u. S. Believes north korea is behind the cyber attack on Sony Pictures despite the allegations of the attacks being by a former disgruntled sony employee. Pamela brown and tom fuentes join us. What are you learning . The fbi says, this is a vote of confidence from the white house, the fact that theyre taking this action going after north korea in the wake of all these naysayers, including a Cyber Security firm that says it was an insider job. This underscores the fact that the u. S. Government believes in the fbis assessment that north korea is behind the sony hack job. And the fbi youre talking to sources, tom, theyre adamant, right, that this is north korea and this isnt former disgruntled employees . I spoke with officials who said based on the meeting the fbi had with the norst company and the materials turned over by them to the fbi that that company and the other companies who have claimed that the fbi investigation was faulty only have 20 of the evidence in this case. They dont have access to the other 80 that the fbi does which is classified and which involves sources and methods being conducted throughout the world. In fact, they took it one step further and said the executives from these companies are being reckless and irresponsible in making these accusations that the investigation was not correctly done. Do you think, pamela that we will find out why what the evidence is that the fbi has or are we not going to be privy to that . As tom said a lot of the evidence the more incriminating evidence is classified. So it would have to be declassified. There is a possibility that the fbi will come out and reveal a little bit more. I dont think were going to hear about any big revelations, though as far as the smoking gun, if you will and how they know its north korea. I think it wont be as big as that. But we know the director of the fbi will be speaking at Fordham University next week. So i wouldnt be surprised if we hear him touch on the sony hack. But as far as the evidence behind why they came to this conclusion i dont think were going to be hearing any big revelations anytime soon. Theyve discussed at fbi headquarters about maybe giving out a little bit more information next week or the week after. But they dont want to get in a position that when somebody recklessly says the investigation is faulty that they give up something that helps the adversaries are overseas to know how they did what they did. I really want to know what it is though. Youre not the only one. Tom, pamela, appreciate it. Were also following reaction to a major surprise from kim jongun, hints of a possible thaw in his countrys relations with south korea if to use his word, the mood is right. As north korea ushered in a new year the u. S. Made good on a promise to strike back at the regime for a cyber attack that threatened the release of an american movie. You want to kill kim jongun . Reporter new sanctions on north koreas military arm come even as the hermit kingdom opens up to the idea of warming relations with south korea. In a new years address on national tv the isolated countrys leader kim jongun, said if conditions were right, hed be open to highlevel talks with the south. Translator if the atmosphere and environment are there, there is no reason not to hold a highlevel summit. We will make every effort to advance dialogue and cooperation. Reporter having leaders of the two koreas on speaking terms would be significant. But overtures have been made in the past with no result. In the past theres been so much disappointment with the attempts or offers on the part of kim jongun to enter into negotiations and then for some reason the conditions arent right and it doesnt move forward. Reporter in recent months there have been some signs of a thaw in the otherwise bellicose relationship between the north and south. Kims remarks come after a south korean official earlier this week suggested a meeting of cabinet ministers this month. Translator i dont think well have any particular agenda. But our position is to discuss everything that south and north have mutual interests in. Reporter video was released of kim appearing to pilot a plane earlier this week likely a propaganda move to show him as in control after the u. S. Vowed retaliation for that cyber attack. Kim may even even be trying to project strength through his facial hair. His eyebrows similar to those of his father kim jongil. With us now in the situation room, gordon chang. We also have steven yates, Deputy Assistant for National Security to Vice President dick cheney. Welcome, gentlemen. Thanks for being with us. Steven starting with you, there are sometimes sanctions and theres not a whole lot of bite to them. And sometimes there are sanctions that go very far. How would you classify these . I would classify these as basically an initial step. They seem to be modeled somewhat after the approach that was taken against russia after its taking crimea from the ukraine where where we have a narrow list of targets were going after. I see some of these entities as important in north korea but unlikely would have this kind of strategic impact on kim jonguns calculus. So gordon who specifically are we talking about being affected here and who wont be affected . Well the most important target is the general Reconnaissance Bureaus which is a military or semimilitary Intelligence Organization which included a number of cyber hacking units, including unit 121 and lab 110. And that is the main one. There are two other organizations and ten individuals. But essentially if were looking at hacking, the general Reconnaissance Bureau is the most important one. Steven when you look at the list of names here that the Treasury Department has put out, theyre not associated with the hacking, many of them, some are. But a lot of them are arms dealers stationed in places like iran and syria. Why is that . Are these sanctions in part to expose some of these names . Well, i think in some ways this is a moment of opportunity. There are a number of different challenges that north korea presents. The Obama Administration hasnt put forward a comprehensive strategy on what it aims to do. Maybe its an opportunity to address proliferation and other kinds of concerns not directly related to the cyber hacking. But the biggest name not on this list is north koreas maybe in china. What makes this very different from the russian example and others is that we have an enabler in china with cyber hacking that is akin to what we have with terrorism. If you dont get at the enabler, youre not really shaping the behavior of the target. Gordon when you look at this list of individuals, there are a lot of people who work for combed. Its north koreas primary arms dealer. They hold these positions in north korea. Do we know anything about them do any of the names stick out to you . None of the names really stick out. Some of them are important but they arent internationally wellknown. What the Obama Administration is trying to do is these sanctions wont be effective but theyre intentionally not effective. Its basically a shot across the bow hoping north korea will not retaliate. Thats going to be a very interesting thing to see over the next weeks and months because north korea is probably not going to take this lying down. So a shot across the bow. We expect theyre going to react, as you say. Steven what do you think . Will they . How will they react to this . If history is a guide, they will retaliate in some way. Weve had multiple instances of when the north korean regime is unhappy that they will test a missile, fire at an offshore island on the south, they can detonate a nuclearcapable device. Theyve now, according to the allegations of the fbi, engaged in cyber attacks. Theres no reason to believe they wouldnt react if we have gone after their leadership. And what is the role if you could quickly tell us with china and really what china wants to see and what seems to be a backandforth thats going on here . Well theres really only been one moment in history when china used compelance to bring north korea to sanctions. When chinas financial interests were at stake, it used its influence to make north korea heel. Thats the only way weve ever had indirect impact on north korea. And, yet, gordon, what do you think about whether these sanctions and maybe further actions by the u. S. That well see how it really will affect the situation, sending a message to north korea that cyber hacking isnt effective, if china isnt brought into the equation . China needs to be brought into the equation because more than half of north koreas Cyber Warriors are actually based in china. And these attacks against Sony Pictures entertainment were routed through chinese i. P. Addresses which means that beijing knew what was going on. Thats a big omission as steve points out. How concerned you sort of listed a number of things there, steven a range of things that north korea could do. How concerned should we be what do you think the worst thing they could do would be . Well its hard to imagine what the worst thing could be. Theyre not a regime that he is known for going low. They go big. So i think that we have to be very very concerned about what this uncertain leadership would do. Were dealing with a guy who after he took over leadership in north korea disappeared for periods of time. We didnt know where he was or what was going on. With Nuclear Weapons in the mix, missiles unstable regime cyber attacks, its already a bad mix. I want to put this question to both of you, maybe this is nothing. But i know a lot of people have noticed that kim jonguns appearance has altered a little bit lately his eyebrows have become much narrower. Is there any intomsymbolism to this change in look or is it just an a aesthetic look we shouldnt worry about . When he took over in 2011, he was fattened up to make himself look like his grandfather. And that derives a lot of legitimacy. So this eyebrow change is important. It says theres instability and uncertainty in the regime. The new years eve statement from north korea actually talked about the virtues of killing north koreas internal enemies, almost an unprecedented statement for the kim regime which takes the position that everybody in north korea loves kim jongun. That is some sort of message, some eyebrows are sending there steven. It is. But north korea is unlike any other country on the planet. This is the most pulverized one anywhere in human history. Were left reading tea leaves and these kinds of signals. Unfortunately for the people of north korea, theres a lot of reality to what gordon was talking about. This was a great discussion, gentlemen. Thank you so much. Gordon chang, steven yates, appreciate you both being with us. And next major new developments in the crash of airasia flight 8501. Dozens more bodies have been pulled from the java sea. Are searchers getting close to finding the plane itself . Plus the most significant piece of wreckage recovered so far, what does a window panel reveal about what may have brought down this plane . Kid hey dad, who was that man . Dad hes our broker. He helps looks after all our money. Kid do you pay him . Dad of course. Kid how much . Dad i dont know exactly. Kid what if youre not happy . Does he have to pay you back . Dad nope. Kid why not . Dad it doesnt work that way. Kid why not . Vo are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed . Wealth management at Charles Schwab does a freshly printed presentation fill you with optimism . Then you might be gearcentric. Get a 15 gift card when you buy 75 in hp ink or any hp toner multipack. Office depot officemax. Gear up for great. Latte or au lait . Cozy or cool . Exactly the way you want it. Until boom, its bedtime your mattress is a battleground of thwarted desire. Enter the sleep number bed. Save 300 on the final closeout of the c3 Queen Mattress set. Hes the softy. 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A lot of progress made but still a lot of hard work still lies ahead. For the first time recovery of actual parts after airasia 8501 brought ashore in indonesia. More pieces resembling windows from the airbus a320 but the search continues for the actual fuselage believed to be at the bottom of the java sea. The search area has narrowed to just over 2,000 square miles, slightly smaller than the size of delaware. Crews are desperately listening for a sound like this to guide them to the planes black boxes. But weather continues to be a major factor. Visual searching nearly impossible and divers dealing with 13foot waves. Still, some remains are being recovered, including these from the u. S. Navy ship sampson. In surabaya ten bodies made their way through pouring rain en route to a hospital. Authorities are also making progress identifying the victims. One of the first a Flight Attendant named nisa. Translator nisa is an obedient daughter shes tidy and loves to learn. Her friends love her. Reporter pictures from their daughters Instagram Account show a poised young woman with an adventurous spirit that took her hundreds of miles away from the family home in sumatra. She knew the risk but she loved this. It was her dream. Reporter leaning on nisas two older brothers and cousins, their smiles vanished replaced by a sense of urgency and finality. A few hours later, a solemn transfer of remains. Her parents say theyve already made preparations for their daughters burial as she begins her final journey home. Translator goodbye goodbye, nisa. Reporter what struck me most about the time i spent with nisas parents was their strength and resilience even in the face of such grief. A little anecdote from her father nisas oldest brother has always wanted to fly as well. Hes been inspired by nisa and wanted to become a Flight Attendant. And her father says if thats still what he wants, then he supports him. Three other victims have also been identified and here at the Crisis Center in surabaya 158 families still wait for answers. Brianna . David molko in surabaya, thank you for that report. Lets get some answers to our questions about this in just a moment with our panel. First, i want to talk about weather conditions in the java sea. They really could not be worse. They are making this Recovery Mission just so difficult. Cnns Paula Hancocks has that part of the story. Reporter loading up to rejoin the operation, police and searchandrescue teams prepare for the tenhour journey back to the crash scene. Lastminute checks for divers facing the grim task of looking for bodies. This man couldnt even get into the water on his last trip the weather made it impossible. This is my life, he says. Its just too much of a risk. With waves of up to four meters or 13 feet todays conditions are no better. The regents chief of police says the weather without a doubt is the biggest obstacle in finding the victims. Id like to tell the families were doing our best to get their loved ones back, he says. A searchandrescue boat docks nearby returning from a day near the crash site. The captain says they will not stop searching until everyone is found. We were supposed to collect some debris from a singaporean ship but we gave up because it was too dangerous. A delivery of body bags for the police ship. This police boat is not going anywhere today. The weather simply too bad. Another frustrating day for divers who desperately want to give distraught families some closure. Paula hancocks cnn, indonesia. Lets dig deeper now with cnn Law Enforcement analyst and former assistant fbi director tom fuentes. We have cnns safety analyst, david soucie and cnn aviation analyst and former National Transportation safety board managing director peter goelz. David, i have this sense, i think talking to a lot of experts, that the fuselage could be found soon. But now i think a lot of people are wondering if thats the case. You have about 24 days approximately left on the black boxes signal. Do you foresee this becoming a race against time . I really do. The weather is not only going to have to stop making waves and making all the debris movement it has to stop for more than one day. One day is not sufficient. Thats all theyre forecasting right now. So im concerned that theyll go out there again and these professionals who are so committed, you can see it in their face that they really want to find these and really want to put this to rest. But theyre just not going to be able to get out there. Im afraid its going to take quite some time. We have an example of a black box on the table here. Theres a voice recorder and a data recorder. This small item is what searchers are looking for when theyre looking for the plane. Peter, we have transportation officials in indonesia now saying that the black box could actually be sent to jakarta to be analyzed. I think we expected it would probably go to australia or maybe to france. Well if indonesia says they have the equipment and the rest of the team agrees, let it go to jakarta. The key thing is to get it downloaded correctly and in a timely manner once they find it. You think they can do that . Well if they say they can, the other folks with them are backing them up. I dont see any problem. Is there other risks in getting the data damaging for instance the data . Sure theres always some risk if youre not familiar with the process of doing some damage. But i think theyre not going to take a chance on this. This is too important to their country. If they think theres any question that they cant do it theyll move it on. But as a point of national pride, if theyve got the skill, theyve got the technique, theyll do it. Compared to the malaysia air accident the missing plane back in march, tom, i think a lot of people are looking at indonesia and saying theyre doing a better job when it comes to this investigation. But there have also been some mixed messages about what has been found and what hasnt been found. One report that sonar had found what appeared to be a plane. And now we learned that was completely not confirmed. Is this an issue . Its an issue, but when you bring so many Different Countries with so many different agencies within those countries and pieces of equipment out there, youre not going to be able to keep every Single Person involved in the search from talking to somebody from the media or from their home country or making phone calls. So i think theyve done a great job of controlling the message, considering that the bigger the group is thats involved in this the less control you have over what gets out. What do you think, peter, when this data recorder is found by investigators . Whats the first thing that they want to find out from this . Well if its the data recorder they just want to get a complete accurate readout of all of the parameters. And then they want to synchronize it to the voice recorder and make sure that the voice is synced to whats going on in the plane. Obviously its a very sensitive process. And youve got to show respect, particularly on the voice side because these are thecaptains and the first officers last words. Thank you all. Appreciate your insight. Coming up wreckage clues, more on the apparent piece of that fuselage that was pulled from the water. What it might tell investigators about the disaster. [carpenters rainy days and mondays] [ac dc back in black] [ac dc back in black] chevy colorado. When you find new roads, you win motor trends truck of the year. Huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. Everybody knows that. Well, did you know you that former pro Football Player ickey woods will celebrate almost anything . Unhuh. Number 44. Whoooo fortyfour, thats me get some cold cuts. Get some cold cuts. Get some cold cuts whooo gimme some geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. Whoo fortyfour ladies, thats me whoo. Gonna get some cold cuts today it may be the most important clue so far in the crash of that airasia flight into the java sea. An apparent piece of the fuselage a window panel now in the hands of investigators. I have cnn aviation analyst and former National Transportation safety board managing director peter goelz back with us to talk about that. Lets take a look at this first, peter. This is an interior part of the fuselage right . Right. And it looks like obviously a window panel. What can you tell us about this . We cant tell where its from. That will be critical. But what we can see is along the top here and along the bottom theres no real compression damage meaning it didnt it was torn rather than crushed. And you see that there was some sort of tremendous force that tore it loose but it wasnt a compression. Thats about you can see theres no sooting on it anywhere. So you dont see any evidence of fire. On the interior the change in color, thats adhesive from an interior liner of some sort. So if its not a compression, does that tell you anything about the kind of action that the plane might have taken . Well for this particular piece, it was torn off. Might have come off prior to impact with the water. Its just a tantalizing clue. But its too little to tell much. Okay. So then this was also something that was found, a compressed air cylinder. What does this tell us . And if i can draw attention to this thats a crack right there that were seeing in this metal. So what does this tell us . This is the cylinder most likely attached to the escape raft and escape slide that was torn loose. And this just shows the tremendous impact force, again, of the plane. But it does not show compression damage. Its relatively intact. This might have been thrown loose early in the process. And you think along with the raft. You think it might have been by that slide . I think so. Is it just that this is buoyant or yes. So its not necessarily surprising that it would have . Right. So this ones a little mysterious. What is this . Can we tell . This looks to be a piece of the aircraft. Is it flooring is it a wall panel . Boy, ive been studying this all day. And i cant place it. It could be a piece of the flooring of the aircraft. This kind of webbed bottom looks like flooring. But its too little. You cant tell. And the key thing is i dont see any identifying serial numbers on it. So its a mystery so far. Somebody else whose interior expertise is looking at these planes might be able to identify it. I cant. And maybe the airbus specialists they have brought in. Exactly. Well certainly be looking for more information about this. Peter, thank you so much. I want to bring back now cnn safety analyst david soucie also joining us cnn analyst david gallo, the director of special projects at the oceanographyicyic institution. And we have cnn Law Enforcement analyst tom fuentes with us. To you first, david gallo, how do you think the searchers, the investigators, were able to narrow this search zone . I think thats a good question. I had that same question myself. Im assuming they did it by where they found the most debris and sadly the most bodies floating on the surface of the sea. And really thats it . I believe so unless they have other data at least that im not aware of. It surprises me they were able to reduce it that much given that the wind and waves have been blowing things around for song so long. But it is good for them. Definitely. Were hearing from indonesian officials that some people were reportedly still in their seats, that there were three people that they found who were in a row of seats. Does that tell us anything . On a short flight like that some people may never unstrap their seat belts, so they may strapped into their seat for the duration of the flight and not undo them when the captain says you can get up and use the restroom. They may have just still been strapped in. As far as how they stay in that seat and stay intact and attached to the seat its happened in many other crashes. I dont know exactly in this case what that means as far as the crash itself. David soucie if these passengers were strapped some were strapped to their seats. But if many of them were how does that impact your theory that there could have been an Emergency Landing, an emergency attempt to land this plane at sea . Well i think that it puts a less credible stint on it. But if the aircraft came in and it did try to do a flat ditching, still possible it would have broke up. Thats what it indicates to me. Before, if you remember we had the emergency exit and below that we had the slide. The door that peter was just looking at there that looks strange, the floor piece, to me that looks like the cover for the emergency exit on the side of the aircraft which is that slide that comes out and opens. It looks very much like that to me because it is a slightly triangular shape and exterior and then an interior would be that other color. I think thats what im looking at there. So many may be more of an indication that there was no attempt certainly to exit the plane by people who were in it . Yeah that that slide would have deployed there through that door. Okay. David gallo, we were talking about this probable area, the new probable area. Its 2,000 square miles. Thats still a considerable amount of area to be searching. How long do you think that will take . Well it would take if it was deepwater, it would take a month or more to do that area and do it well to be sure you didnt miss anything. Depends on how theyre looking. If theyre using sonar with multiple vehicles, may go fairly quickly. In addition to that use a pinger locater to look for the pingers. But they have to have cooperative weather. Right now, if they cant get more than a day or so at a time its going to take an awful long time. And, tom, thats really one of the issues here with the weather. Were talking winds at sometimes of 30 miles per hour. And that really threatens some of the aerial capabilities here. How important is it to have those aerial capabilities . Its very important because they need to follow the debris if they can back to where the crash site is kind of like following the breadcrumbs. The problem here is that the currents in the java sea are such and the monsoon season and the air and the wind everything together is almost like searching for breadcrumbs in a jacuzzi. They still may have a very hard time trying to trace backward how are the winds on each day in the eight, nine days that have passed how have they changed . Where were they . What was the direction, velocity . It makes it very difficult. If you lose your aerial capability thats a huge piece to lose. Are you surprised, david soucie that there hasnt been more wreckage found floating or even some that may have washed ashore at this point . I would expect some to be washing ashore at this point. But with the weather as bad as it is i dont know if they can people that can get out there to look at the shore from the outside. Im not that surprised by now just because of the lack of access. David gallo, when you have sonar detection of something that searchers want to check out or a device really detects anything under water, what are the next steps from there . Sonar intimates with sound. And it takes talent to be able to interpret that in some cases, so really the best thing is to have eyes looking at it. In deep water, that means using a robot or camera device. In shallow waters, it means using divers. But its not possible to have them on the bottom long enough to find the things theyve been looking at with sonar. Been very difficult. Gentlemen, thanks for your input. Stay with us. Well check in with you later in the show. Coming up how the latest discoveries in the java sea are helping us learn about the airasia planes final minutes. And more on president obamas decision to begin punning north korea for the cyber attack on Sony Pictures. Officials say what happened today is only the beginning. 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Today what appears to be part of the plane was found, an indonesian official said it appeared to be an interior panel. It was 5 36 local time when the plane took off from surabaya bound for singapore. At 6 12 the plane made its last contact with controllers asking to turn left and climb to 38,000 feet to avoid bad weather. According to one indonesian official the request to turn was given the okay but the request to ascend was denied because there was another plane in the area. Shortly after that the plane disappeared off radar. There was no distress call. At 7 55 flight 8501 was declared missing over the java sea. On december 30th searchers saw the first wreckage and bodies from the crash, about 66 miles from the planes last radar position. Since then the grisly task of recovering bodies has been ongoing. The uss sampson lending assistance on thursday. But so far, no clear answers on what happened to bring this airbus 320 out of the sky. Among the theories that the pilots disregarded the order not to climb, that for some reason that the aircraft traveling too slow to sustain flight dropped into the water like an enormous rock. The search is being hampered by Severe Weather and high waves typical of the regions rainy season. And the cause of the crash likely wont be resolved until the planes voice and data recorders are recovered. A seemingly hopeful sign was the sonar location of what appeared to be a shadow on the sea bed, a hope to finally identify the planes final resting place. No matter how long it takes to pinpoint a cause, indonesias Safety Record is now coming into focus. Its been years since an airline crashed, and this reaction is just a huge wakeup call. Lets get reaction from cnns obrian obrian. At this point, they have 30 days to find the black box before the ping dies before it stops emitting pains. Is that long enough given you dont have many breaks in the weather . Its long enough, but we must realize the bodies themselves are important evidence. I havent heard anything so far from the autopsies that have been carried out on the bodies because in the case of flight 447, the medical examiners in brazil to examine the bodies have been severe spinal compression in those bodies and that gave us a very rapid idea which could be very important in this case, too, i think, what kind of injuries were sustained, what forces caused the injuries and so far weve had nothing. In fact some of the bodies have been released for burial. Im wondering what the process is for examining the bodies. Each body contains an important clue about the forces that were apparent on that plane. Its apparent the fuselage was probably bridged in a very large way because were getting a steady accumulation of these bodies turning up. Yep. You think airplanes can hit water at extreme speed. We need to know in this case if it was similar forces. That would tell us a great deal about the altitude of the plane when it hit the water. Thats an important thing. Miles, do you think well be getting that information, and also i imagine investigators, in whats a multinational effort here will have looked into that dont you think . Well one would hope we would get that kind of information. Thats a routine as part of the investigation. Im surprised we havent heard that kind of data coming from the investigative board. Maybe they know something theyre not sharing with us. We will ultimately learn this as soon as we get ahold of those black boxes. The cockpit voice recorder will tell us everything we need to know about how the aircraft fell and how it might have broken up and more importantly, what was going on in the cockpit between the captain and first officer making the decisions they were making it navigating around the storm. So i think one way or another, all of this is going to come out. I cant imagine it will be too long before we find those black boxes, but i keep going back to this idea that here we are in this day and age still chasing down pings when we shouldnt be doing that. We should have some sort of way of capturing this data in the cloud. And we do thats the other frustrating part about it its just not put into the planes yet. And there doesnt seem to be an absolute rush to do that. Clive, there is a theory weve been hearing from some people. I think theyve wondered this especially because of the door coming off the plane. And some people have wondered if perhaps the pilot was trying to make an Emergency Landing over the sea. Do you think thats even possible . Well its interesting because when the hudson 820 hit the hudson it hit at a very clever angle and caused the least damage to the structure. Even then the evacuation of that plane was taking place, the rear end of the fuselage had been breached and water started coming in. As the people went out the front doors of the plane, the rear of the cabin was spitting out water. I wonder in this case the evidence of that slide, the evidence of the door opening and the first few bodies would be consistent with the rear rows of seats and those who would be in the Flight Attendant station by that door. Im wondering as part of the fuselage breaking up if it began at the bottom rear that would suggest that likely merkel on the hudson landing, the first part of the fuselage to hit the water was the rear end. Im trying to do reverse engineering and looking at the way the bodies have appeared. We have 30 so far, and in the case of air 447, they picked up bodies and one of them was that of the captain. Thats pretty interesting, miles. I wonder what you think especially when the maintenance kit was found, and i believe thats stored in the back of the plane. You know i just dont put a lot of credence into this idea that somehow this was a controlled ditching. It doesnt make a lot of sense to me. I think if in fact this was a pilot, a crew that was able to control the craft in that fashion enough to glide it down for a landing, which would take some time, it doesnt take too much to put the button on the wheel, the o, and say, hey, we have a mayday here and were landing in the water. If you can control the plane, you can make that radio call. I suppose there were circumstances where they couldnt make the call. We can counteract that idea. But the idea they glided this in seems to me sort of a stretch. Great input, both of you. Miles obrien, clyde irving thank you guys. And happy new year to both you. Coming up president obama carries out his threat to hold north korea accountable for the cyber hacking. Plus that race to find the black boxes. Are crews getting closer to the plane itself . Does a freshly printed presentation fill you with optimism . Then you might be gearcentric. Get a 15 gift card when you buy 75 in hp ink or any hp toner multipack. Office depot officemax. Gear up for great. Happening now, north korea punished when the u. S. Takes its first public action against kim jonguns reaction in retaliation for the cyber attack. Will the new piece of wreckage lead rescuers closer to the landing place of the airasia flight . They recover more bodies despite fierce storms that are slowing down the search for victims. And for those critical black boxes. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wolf blitzer is off today. Im breanna kheiler. Youre in the situation room. Breaking news this hour president obama gives the order to hit back at north korea for that damaging cyber attack on sony with new sanctions designed to punish members of kim jonguns regime. And were also following the search operation at the airasia crash site. Its getting back under way after some pretty dangerous weather conditions. We have correspondents and analysts standing by covering all the news thats breaking this hour. First, our cnn correspondent jim acosta. He is in hawaii with president obama. This may be just the beginning, jim. Thats right, and the Obama Administration is stressing its a rare move for the u. S. To launch sanctions over the cyber attack. This is just the latest sign that the white house is standing by its allegation that north korea was behind this cyber attack on Sony Pictures and its movie interstate view. The executive order signed by the president takes aim at all the officials of the north korean government. The communist countrys Intelligence Organization and Cyber Operations as well as something called comed, which the white house says is pyongyangs major arms dealer. On top of that ten individuals, most of them associated with that arms dealer and stationed around the world, are also targeted in these sanctions. In a statement on those sanctions, White House Press secretary josh ernest reiterated what the president vowed before his annual vacation in hawaii saying as the president has said our response to north koreas attack against stone i pictures entertainment will be proportional and will take place at a time and in a manner of our choosing. Todays actions are the first aspect of our response. That was on a Conference Call with reporters earlier today, a Senior Administration official said its possible the North Koreans did that to themselves. But breanna, there was not a blanket denial that the u. S. Was not involved at all. Jim, north korea is already the target of u. S. Sanctions. How much of this is really going to hurt pyongyang when its just targeting individuals . Right, i think that is a big question and Administration Officials acknowledge that the ten people targeted in these sanctions may not even have assets in the u. S. That could be frozen but the white house, breanna, is indicating this is just the beginning, that they will start working with other countries to put the squeeze and the grip on north korea and their economy. It is a strategy the president has used before on russia and the white house believes that approach has had some success with moscow, although it hasnt completely completely changed their behavior. Theyre doing almost the same thing with north korea. Thanks jim. Lets go to our chief National Correspondent jim shuto and pamela brown also breaking on this story. Jim, to you first, i heard one expert say this is like a shot across the bow. What do officials really expect these sanctions to do . It is a shot across the bow because it goes to the way north korea gets its arms but also how it makes its money, because north korea deals in arms. It is a tremendous form of exchange for north korea which is their economic lifeline to the outside world because they dont really have anything else to sell to the outside world. This is a limited group to start with three major governmentconnected entities as well as ten individuals, but the idea is there is kind of a force Multiplier Effect on this because other companies outside north korea that do business with us theyre not specifically targeted by these sanctions, but its the belief they will be unlikely to do business with these entities because they would worry about costs that might be imposed on them as well. So you know this is a strategy that the administration has used for instance with russia following its actions in ukraine, with iran over its nuclear program. Its worked you can argue, by raising the economic costs on those countries and its one the administration has confidence in. Pamela are you seeing in this list of names here from the Treasury Department anyone who was actually involved in the hack . Well ive been asking sources this and im told that no one on this list is going to be sanctioned is directly tied to this breanna. They may be indirectly complicit in the hack. I think the u. S. Government was trying to get to who they can get to as far as people connected to the north korean government. Remember the fbi investigation is ongoing, and at this point theyre still investigating who the individuals are that actually hacked sony. Theyre still looking into that. Jim, the administration has said there will be more. So what does round 2 look like . Its hard to say exactly what step theyll take next but what they can do which would really be punishing, is go after the chinese entities that do business with north korea. China is truly north koreas lifeline to the outside world for food for fuel. If you were to go after chinese banks in particular who do business with north korea, and this is a tactic the u. S. Has used before for instance, to enforce economic sanctions against iran going after chinese entities and others that trade with iran it has worked in the past. That was over chinese objections but if the u. S. Were to do Something Like that you would have enormous effects. The worry, breanna, of course is you dont want to spark further provocations and the u. S. Has said from the beginning they want this to be proportional and you always have to factor into those decisions what the retaliation might be from north korea. Certainly do and im hoping to learn some more information, perhaps, pamela. Were going to be hearing in not too loongng from the fbi director. Do you think well hear anything about this from him . Thats a good question because a lot of people want to know how the fbi came to this conclusion. We know they will be speaking up at the big Cyber Security forum. Im told by forces though not to expect him to give any new information. Hes likely to reiterate what we already heard from the fbi press release as far as why they concluded it was north korea, what little they could, and also talk about the fact how this is a good example of the Cyber Security threat we face. But hes not going to cross the line and give us any new big revelations that we havent already heard about. We know though from sources, breanna, there have been discussions in the fbi to release more information, though new evidence that the challenge here is that so much of it is classified so they would have to declassify the information, but there is a possibility we could hear more from the fbi. Theyre trying to figure all that out now whether they should even release new evidence. Well be watching. Pamela brown jim shuto, thank you both. Now to the airasia flight. Suzanne is here with all the breaking developments. Hi suzanne. Hi breanna. They did discover 30 new bodies today, and they also found a panel within the plane with an intact window. Beyond that there is not that much. It is about 6 00 in the morning there, so as daybreak comes, theyll start searching again for bodies as well as that debris. This really is a race against time because searchers desperately need a break in that bad weather. Reporter day 6 of the search for airasia 8501 and only 30 bodies have been recovered of the 162 people on board. And from the plane, just a few pieces of debris. Today indonesian officials recovered this one representing a window panel. The biggest obstacle searchers say, is the treacherous weather. The main obstacle was the height of the waves and the strong current. It was enough to stop us from continuing the search. Reporter high winds threatened helicopters above. And 13foot waves battered ships and divers below, making this search painstakingly difficult. The frequency of the waves is theyre so tightly together that its impossible for boats to launch recovery equipment. The torrential rains that happen every day, the divers are facing potentially zero visibility with all the dirty water. Reporter the International Search effort is in the shallow waters of the java sea, roughly the size of delaware. Today may be the day they actually can find something because waves will be about 2 to 3 feet. Reporter but another two days adds to the agony of families who have been waiting for answers since sunday. Only four bodies have been identified. For those families they can at least begin to say goodbye. Like the parents of kyronesa the 22yearold Flight Attendant who posted on instagram two weeks ago a love message to her boyfriend. Translator she knew the risk but she loved it. It was her dream. She loved traveling. Translator goodbye. Goodbye, nisa. Just heartbreaking goodbyes. We now learned that russia is joining this International Search providing two planes and 22 divers experienced in this type of recovery and you heard chad say the weather is going to get better on sunday. The analysts i talked to said you just need two weeks of clear weather and you could probably find the main portion of the plane as well as those victims right away. Breanna . That is the hope certainly. Suzanne, thank you for your report. Lets get to the search and the names that are being identified right now. Joining me live from surabaya indonesia, gary whats the latest . Reporter well were at the Surabaya Police headquarters breanna, and set up at the headquarters is this tent. This is a waiting room and theres a sign that says waiting room for the families and the reason they set it up right here is were right next to the hospital where the bodies are being brought for identification. Whats interesting about this tent, there is no one in it right now. Part of the reason is because each day fewer families have been coming here theyve been staying home. Also the weather has been so bad that this tent has flooded over the last couple days so it was too wet. So actually they built a raised floor inside the tent with carpeting on it so when they come back later today, its very early at 6 10 in the morning, when they come back today, they wont get flooded out. One thing we can tell you is that for the first few days breanna, there were many people Still Holding out hope their loved ones were alive. We were at a Church Service yesterday. People there at this Church Service were hoping their loved ones were maybe on an unin uninhabited island maybe on a raft. What was unique about this church yesterday is this is a predominantly muslim country. But there is a small Christian Church with 45 members, and 30 of the passengers from the plane is from this small denomination. It was so sad they had a service in a church near here a church used by Police Officers and these were some of the people hoping their loved ones were alive. Most of them dont think so now, but until their bodies are discovered they think their loved ones are in a place between life and death. Breanna . Gary tuckman in surabaya. Thank you. We have peter golds, we have david sousi and analyst miles obrien back with us. You have the search and rescue right now, peter, and this is being complicated by really tough weather. Could these rough weather conditions do you think, actually hinder not only the recovery but also the investigation . It slows it up and it post ds postpones the discovery of the main wreckage field. They need a few days of calm weather so the vessels with sonar can start their grid searches in the most hightarget rich area. Without that its going to be slow going. Will it disburse any of the wreckage or maybe damage it in a way that hinders to be able to figure out what happened . Sure. Its going to disburse the lighter weight material. Its going to spread it out. Some of the bodies may also be disbursed. Its going to make that part of the investigation challenging. But the Critical Evidence is still in one place and hopefully will be found soon. David sousi, one of the things weve been talking about, a theory you had, was this thought that perhaps pitthe pilot actually made a water landing, that he was able to land on the surface of the sea but then the plane sank. Do you think thats possible . Its certainly possible. The evidence that we had that was pointing in that direction earlier was that the the overthewing exit door was found, the slide below that door was found, the gauge that inflates it was found, and the evidence of three or four people without seat belts on which would indicate that. We definitely have indications and evidence of breakup of the aircraft. We dont know if it was in flight or subsequent but it appears to me if there was an attempt to ditch that that was not a successful attempt and there was some breakup in the aircraft. But it does not mean that there werent some survivors, and we still need to leave that option open until we hear more from the autopsies of the victims. All right, david, peter, miles, stand by just a moment. I want to bring in jeffrey thomas. Hes joining us from perth, australia. Hes the managing director of airlineratings. Com. Jeffrey, i want to ask you if you think there is a chance the plane could have landed intact. Its a very interesting theory. My feeling, though is if the pilot had a chance to do a controlled landing on the water, he would have also had a possibility of making a mayday call and that was not received. I believe the plane did hit the water intact whichever way it hit the water. It would be extremely unusual for the fuselage to break up in flight. Parts of the fuselage parts of the airplane i should say, like the horizontal stabilizer might have broken up in flight but the fuselage itself should have remained intact until impact on the water, and then would break apart on impact. I know you share the feelings on this if there was no mayday call if the pilot had been able to control the plane enough to land it that the pilot would have been communicating with air Traffic Controllers saying something. But physically is that possible to be in a storm like that to be on those kinds of seas and actually land on the water . I think it stretches it on several fronts. First of all, it wouldnt be great weather to be doing a ditching thats for sure. Number two, if you can trim the airplane and control it you have a little bit of time. You actually have quite a bit of time even falling at 15,000 feet per minute which is pretty precip tus precipitous, at 35,000 feet thats two minutes. If you want to think about how much time that would provide to squeeze the button on the wheel and just say mayday, there is nothing here that tells me this is a ditching. This is a plane that was thrown out of the sky, i think, and it might have plummeted down in a tight spin and it might have landed with a hard impact on the surface and broke off, or it could have broken off on the way down or maybe both. Because, peter, this is a matter of a pilot saying something very quickly. I went back and looked at the listened to the audio of that flight captain solenbergers flight and one, he is not that high up in the air. Even though the conditions were more clear, he is talking to air traffic control, he told me within 25 seconds of having an issue and until the very end of it. Hes not saying much but hes getting his point across. Not able to get to this airport. Were going to be in the hudson. He said these things. We hear nothing of that from this pilot. So what does that tell you . I think it confirms what miles was stating. These pilots have their hands full. Solenberger was at 3500 feet, these guys were somewhere at 35,000 feet. If there was any kind of controlled flight if they had any ability to control this plane, they would have declared a mayday. I think it was catastrophic and they had their hands full. All right, we have many more questions ahead. Gentlemen, stick with me. Im going to get in a quick break and well be right back. Abe get in punch it let quicken loans help you save your money. With a mortgage thats engineered to amaze thanks, g. Narrator this is the storm sea captain theres a storm comin narrator that whipped through the turbine which poured. 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Call Liberty Mutual for a free quote today at see Car Insurance in a whole new light. Liberty mutual insurance. Were back now with our panel talking about the new discoveries and challenges at the airasia crash site and also what we may be able to discern now of what happened to the flight. Jeffrey, you were given a screen wrap earlier this week from an indonesian source that showed the path of flight 8501. They had denied the request of higher altitude and i wondered if you think this screen graph still represents the flight as it encountered this turbulence. Yes, the screen graph had the aircraft climbing at 35,000 feet. The speed had gone from 540 miles an hour down to 360 miles an hour which is not enough to sustain flight at that altitude and with the aircrafts weight. Since then we actually received also radar feedback taped information which showed the plane initially after mission was denied for it to climb, we have information saying it was climbing at 9,000 feet a minute and then it went into a dive at 11,000 feet a minute. We saw a burst of speed up to 24,000 feet a minute. Now, we believe the information is reliable. It came from indonesia and it portrays a very very catastrophic event, and with obviously a very tragic outcome. David sousi, can you jump in here, because i know you had some concerns about the readings on this and you wanted more information before drawing conclusions. Certainly, and im sure it is reliable information, but here is my point about a potential attempt to ditch the aircraft. What was interesting to me is the fact that the first set of evidence that we got was the emergency exit door for over the wing. The second thing we got was the slide itself which deploys right under that wing. The third piece of information we got was the tank that inflates that wing and then the fourth was the bodies that were located in that same area. Now we have another piece of evidence that to me looks like the outside door that deploys when the slide comes out as well. Remember there is no other evidence of debris at all in this area. There hasnt been anything other than the interior window piece that we looked at as well. So there is no other debris other than those things. So unless we have a case of really smart water that filters out every pit of debris except that associated with the escape hatch and the associated slide, i find it very difficult to believe that there was Something Else that went on with that airplane. I do believe that he did make an attempt to land the aircraft and ditch it or at least be able to maintain control. Ive investigated three accidents in which the stall of severe thunderstorms in colorado wyoming and in utah all of those aircraft were in that situation. None of the three made a mayday call. They were all barely able to recover and skim the earth which destroyed the aircraft. I think there is more to this than simply saying he lost control, because he still would have had a chance to do a mayday even if he wasnt in control. There is more to this than simply he tried ditching or he didnt and i agree with all your other guests. And you want the indicated air speed, right . Explain that to us. Basically not just the net air speed. Yes. The indicated air speed, i think, and maybe jeffrey can help me with this but i didnt see that we knew the indicated air speed there. So what were talking about is the distance that it traveled from one point to another and how far it went on the ground speed, indicating help me understand this but it looks like the aircraft was then at an extremely high descent rate which would make sense, but at the same time were saying it was an ascent rising too. So help me understand that part too, jeffrey. It doesnt seem to make sense to me without the indicated air speed. Indeed. The winds that were forecast in the area was only a tail wind of about 25 miles per hour. So that wasnt a major factor in the overall speed of this aircraft as far as the differences indicated in the ground speed. That answers the question completely jeffrey. Now i fully understand. The ones i had mentioned earlier, there were some head winds that turned to tail winds very quickly indicating wind sheer, but if thats only 25 indicated in there, it says it wasnt as severe, so im on board. Miles, what do you think . Ive spent a lot of time flying around in thunderstorms in little planes and i can tell you the forecast for winds aloft, what you see in that forecast and what you encounter are very divergent. Particularly in a dynamic situation when youre talking about these incredible thunderstorms. We dont really know what the wind speed was. We know ground speed, but we dont know the wind speed, and we wont know that until we get flight data report to have a measurement of that information. I think its risky to get into interpreting what the air speed might be versus ground speed. This is important. The wings dont know anything about the ground. All they know about is air molecules passing over the rig, and thats what gives it lift. That canning very divergent depending on where the wind is coming from was there an updraft, was there a downdraft . There is a number of scenarios that could be at play here which would cause that ground speed to be a little misleading. And why those black boxes are so important. Peter, really quickly before i let you guys go the bodies that have been found. You expected investigators are looking at the flight manifest to see exactly where people were sitting on the plane . Sure. With 30 victims recovered, you want to know were they sitting in a certain area of the plane . The Flight Attendant, was she assigned to the rear of the plane, was she in the front of the plane . That might give investigators an initial feel about where the breakup occurred what part of the plane. So its vital to find out who these 30 were and identify where they were sitting. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your insight. Still ahead, well map out the airasia crash zone and the challenges for dive teams. Even though the waters are relatively shallow there, we have operatives standing by with their take on whats next in this search. vo nourished. Rescued. Protected. Given new hope. 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Our tom foreman is looking at the search area and the challenges there. Tom, what are you seeing . Theyre getting smaller, at least in terms of the search area. If you were to take this red box were now talking about and make it about 45 miles by 45 miles, thats how much room were talking about. Still, that could involve weeks ahead, maybe even months before they find everything theyre looking for there, even though theyre having some success in that area. Why is that . Several reasons. First of all, number one, because when you have rough weather up here not only does it cloud the water down here making it very hard for anyone to simply go down and look or to look from above, but it also makes it hard for ships to operate up here with robotic craft below the surface. All sorts of things just get much more complicated when the water is rough out there. In addition heres a second reason its a problem. Every hour of every day that you get further away from finding the main bulk of the plane if its down there in one place, everything on the surface is getting pushed around by wind and by currents so its getting further away from its origin point. And the last reason really is Pretty Simple breanna. Any time youre going under water, even a little bit of water trying to find something, its just a lot more complicated than on land. It seems easy from a distance but ill assure you, the people who go there to do the work know how hard it can be breanna. What about the shallowness of the water . This is certainly something a lot of people have talked about. Youre not talking, you know about south india sea depths. This is probably a hundred feet of water. Does that make it a little easier . Yes, it makes it easier. Easier and easy are two different things. Right around 100 feet go to the side and look at this. This is the tallest manmade structure in the world of dubai, there is the statue of liberty, theres the eiffel tower. You can get a mental picture of what were talking about. The lucitania in world war i, about 2 d2,700 feet when it was found. If you go to the france disaster that was some 13,000 feet out there, and of course the current search going on right now for the malaysia air flight thats at 16,000 feet theres no light. These are all much harder in theory than this but that doesnt make this easy. It might make it easier but not easy and theres still no guarantee of success. So much work to be done and as you said no guarantee of success. Tom foreman, thank you. I want to bring in aviation consultant and retired Lieutenant Colonel ken christensen. We also have Sea Operations special ilsist Timothy Taylor and gary gather. David, i want to ask you the first question here. You helped successfully narrow the search zone to locate air france 447. We just saw tom explaining that and just how deep the water was there. But this new probable search area for flight 8501 were talking 2,000 square miles at this point. How long does it take to search this area and how do they narrow it down to that area . Well i think theyve used probably a combination of all the clues of what they found at the surface in terms of bodies and things like that and maybe incorporating a bit about the current and the wind drifts to get some idea. They have reduced it quite a bit. It started out as this area as big as West Virginia and South Carolina and now were down to something much smaller than that. But it could take anywhere from days depending how many instruments they have to weeks. But you have to have cooperation from the weather before we even get that far, because at this point theyre only getting a few hours at a time out there. Tim, you specialized specialize in submersibles. I think a lot of us are familiar with submersibles after the ma malaiseysian air flight. This is in shallower waters so i know they would be used differently. How would they be used in situations like this . If were talking about rvs, they dont need to be as robust as those going down into the deep water. They can be a lot smaller and, therefore, cost a lot less and are much easier and faster to deploy. A lot of these things fit in the trunk of your car and you can ship them on a plane and have them there instantaneously onsite. This industry is moving into smaller vehicles. All the big vehicles are needed to get to deep water, the smaller vehicles again, are less expensive and much more rapidly deployable. Thats a really good point. Ken, you worked with the air force doing search and rescue. In the first week of Something Like this tell us how critical the Aerial Search is because a lot of times throughout this search planes havent been able to be deployed. Thats right. And the Aerial Search really drives where the ships are going to go because they have a better view from being at altitude. But, again, the weather can really hinder a successful visual search. If you want to of course get on station as quick as you can, but sometimes the weather just doesnt cooperate with you. Occasionally you can drop down below, down to about 150 feet but when youre at 150 feet just like if youre on a ship, you cant see very far out, and if youre in the air at 150 feet you cant see very far out. Its very difficult and you have to do shorter back and forth patterns to look for the debris than you would if you were flying higher. In addition if the sea state or how big the waves are, if theyre whitecaps and theyre breaking all of this can look just like aircraft debris. Youre moving at over 125 knots, 150 knots when youre flying over the water. So a relative speed appears faster the lower you are over the water, and that yet makes it more difficult for the rescue the visual rescuers. David, how much of the planes fuselage could be moving around in the turbulent waters . And then also talk about some of the debris thats more buoyant and how that could be affected. At depth, breanna, its tough to say because you would have to know the current strength exactly, and also the shape and weight of those items at the bottom. Im sure the engines and the landing gear theyre probably staying put because theyre incredibly heavy objects. Something smaller can be drifting around. At the surface, every minute of every day, every second of every day, those items are moving north, south, east and west depending on their shape and size and the wind speed and the current speed. So thats very dynamic. Its not only in the north, south, east and west its also up and down in the water column. So its an accident seen with the wind and currents moving all the elements every second of every day. Gentlemen, thank you very much. David gallow tim taylor and ken christensen, i appreciate your insight as this recovery goes on. For more on the victims of airasia 8501 and how their families are coping please visit cnn. Com airimpact. Stand by for the new sanctions against north korea for the sony cyber attack and also any response from kim jonguns regime. Major ok fitness class heres our new trainer ensure active heart health. Heart im going to focus on the heart. I minimize my sodium and fat. Gotta keep it lean and mean. Pear uhoh. Heart i maximize good stuff like my potassium. And phytosterols, which may help lower cholesterol. Major im feeling energized already. Avo new delicious ensure active heart Health Supports your heart and body, so you stay active and strong. Ensure. Take life in. Daughter do you and mom still have money with that broker . Dad yeah, 20 something years now. 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[cheers and applause] it was so powerful so well delivered that it rocketed cuomo to instant political fame. His political appearance even led some Party Faithful to wonder whether cuomo wanted to be president himself. They said will you think about it and i said i have been thinking about it. But will you think about it any more . Ill try, stan to keep it out of my mind. But it was that kind of indecisiveness that frustrated democrats, especially those on the more liberal end and garnered him the nickname hamlet on the hudson. It has nothing to do with my chances, it has everything to do with being governor and therefore, i wont pursue the presidency. Mario Matthew Cuomo was born in 1952 above his fathers grocery store. His after a brief shot at a Minor League Baseball career he graduated top of his class from st. Johns university. The allure of Public Service was strong but early attempts at seeking Political Office ended in defeat. His first electoral success came in 1978 as running mate to governor hugh kerry. Four years later, kerry stepped aside. Cuomo then entered the race for governor and won. Its a position he held for 12 years, winning two more terms handily by emphasizing lower taxes, balanced budgets, Public Education and affirmative action. In 1993 he passed up the chance to be appointed to the Supreme Court, choosing instead to run for a fourth term as governor. It would have been wonderful to be a Supreme Court justice in many ways. It was more important to me to try to run and win again, because i thought i could serve better as governor than a Supreme Court justice. But he lost that race to new governor george putachy. He then said after 12 years, voters were just ready for a change. The constants in his life were faith and family. Cuomo was catholic and married for over six decades to the love of his life matilda. The couple raised five children including maria, who is the wife of Fashion Designer Kenneth Cole Andrew Cuomo who followed in his fathers footsteps as the governor of new york and chris cuomo. In later years, cuomo host aided a radio show returned as an author and continued to speak to the cause closest to his heart. When asked how he wanted to be remembered one of the simplest things i want to achieve is i want to be governor and i want to be one of the hardest working there was skpchlt was. And when its over i want people to say, there was an honest person. Lets bring in political commentator ryan liza. Hes a washington correspondent for the new yorker. I was reading his obituary where he wanted on his epitaph, he tried. I thought that was interesting. Hes really this icon for the left side of the Democratic Party. Not just in new york but also nationally. Absolutely. I mean he came along in 1984 with his famous speech weve all been watching over the last 24 hours, and sort of eclipsed ted kennedy as the liberal conscience of the Democratic Party. Now, the irony was, 1984 of course reagan is running for his second term reagan goes on to win that election in a landslide 49 states so what was happening politically in the country is the cuomo style of liberalism was actually on the decline. Ronald reagan was on the rise and that speech was sort of the peak of new deal the new deal defense of expansive role in they were all about adjusting to the rise of conservatism. What is so fascinating is only now has the Democratic Party, after the clinton years and the obama years, is it returning to more of a mario cuomo style of liberalism if you look at the rise of the younger candidates in the Democratic Party. And i will ask you about that. But one of the things that struck me in that piece that wolf did was the kind of joke of him running for of cuomo running for president. It became a running joke. He said i try to keep it out of my mind to the chuckle of journalists. Why didnt he run . Was it because did he think he couldnt win or . It is a great mystery. And i dont think anyone has solved the mystery to anyones satisfaction. He was asked about it so many times in later years and he said the truth was the budget situation in new york was important and wasnt settled and he needed to concentrate on that. I think one lessons for politicians who have a moment like mario cuomo had in 1984 very similar to Barack Obamas moment at the democratic convention. Rabbit . Strike while the iron is hot. When you are a politician at that level and people are clamoring to run for president , you do it that cycle or dont do this at all. You have to think about mario cuomo and the disappointment of not running for president , you might think of someone else running for president. You might not have another window. Is this when you see having politics coming full circle with the liberalism taking more of the Democratic Party by storm. Is this Elizabeth Warren that you see as carrying on in his footsteps . Well cuomo, he said you campaign in government and play in prose. He has a mixed record and he was not able to governor as liberally as he often spoke and he was governing in a period of high crime and rising conservatism. Look at the death penalty. He never waivered. Democrats have come around on that. Democrats are talking much more about a more expansive role. And so were edging back towards cuomos politics. It is very interesting observation. Thank you for talking with us ryan lizza. Happy new year. And still ahead, the latest clues from the airasia crash area. Cnn correspondents and analysts are standing by with new details. But im a bit skeptical of sure things. Whys that . Look what daddys got. Ahhhhhhhhhh growth you can count on from the bank where no branches equals great rates. Listen up. Im reworking the menu. Veggies youre cool. Mayo, corn dogs. You are so out of here ahh. The complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals. 9 grams of protein. With 30 less sugars than before. Ensure, your 1 dr. Recommended brand now introduces ensure active. Muscle health. Clear protein drink and high protein. Targeted nutrition to feed your active life. Ensure. Take life in. Shopping online is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list now it is. Weve made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. Buy their services directly at angieslist. Com no more calling around. No more hassles. 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He gave full metal jacket a thumbs down and benji the hunts a thumbs up. This is a show where you give benji the hunted a positive view and not that is unfair. You realize the reviews are relative. He wrote in his journal, the problem comes with the movies in the middle. The only movie that makes any sense is the little man of the San Francisco chronicle, which shows a range of emotion. And as the influence grew the ranking could sink a film. Who thought that was a good idea for a movie. Or shine a spotlight on new talent with a simple flick of the wrist. At the top of my list is hoop dreams. He credits ebert for making it a time classic. Steve, shoot yourself in the mirror. If that is the first gust of wind in your sails, an endorsement from ebert, it is clear. And now for the documentary life itself, a look at the icon at his highest and lowest points. He kept his thumbs held high throughout his brutal battle with cancer and until his final hours he flooded social media with the candid commentary. There was worry to any filmmaker that they would end up on the wrong side of the thumb. From someone as easy as ebert. And he resonated with audience and filmmakers. Hes a nice guy but not that nice. And now movies dont have the benefit of his thumb. His father concluded the memorial with the balconies are filled with angels saying thumbs up. It airs at 9 00 p. M. Eastern here on cnn. This is the situation room. Erin Burnett Outfront starts right now. Outfront tonight, breaking news more bodies and plane debris discovered and the search field narrowed, but still missing, the fuselage and the black box. The crowded air space over asia could have been a contributing factor. And the u. S. Strikes back at north korea. Lets go outfront. And good evening. Im