Transcripts For CSPAN Discussion Focuses On The Future Of Libraries 20161128

American library association. To her left is the director of the center for the future of libraries. Examining innovation in libraries and the communities they serve. And finally, susan parker, who is the Deputy University librarian at ucla, where she leads building you just Building Design and renovation projects. And serves as the librarys chief financial officer. Susan parker, let me start with you. Favorite library moment and or what you like about libraries . Are you sick of that . If you worked in a fast food joint, you stop eating it. Do you still like libraries . I love libraries. They are obviously a place i feel very comfortable. It is what the that attracted me to libraries that kept me coming back as it is a place i was always welcome even as a small child. You develop affection for the people who treat you kindly, and even more so they live or you in re you in with bigger and better book and you get excited in thinking and looking things up. Is there a moment in your childhood you said this is the coolest place . Probably the first time i ever went in. Cincinnati, ohio, on the west side. The first time i went in there, i thought this was the coolest thing. I had seen books before, but not that many. Miguel, what is your fondest Library Memory and or why do you like libraries . I think a lot of people have fond memories because they are welcoming places. It is one of the places as a child where you have a certain degree of responsibility. At the phoenix Public Library, it used to be a yellow card, but it was laminated. It felt so adult. A tangible expression of kind of growth and opportunity and responsibility. It opens things to you. It is a predrivers license. The state of kind of deputized you . Oh my goodness. Yeah. Susan, favorite Childhood Library moment . I was an only child and moved a lot. I would usually move after school got out, and i would hit a new community and have no friends. What would i be doing in the summer . I would go to that library. It was my second home. It was welcoming to me, and the librarys and books were my friend. They helped me early on decides to become a librarian, because i found many years ago a paper from junior high where i said i wanted to do this. So it made me feel good when i , was young. Christ do you recall the reason you wanted to do that in that paper . Frankly, i didnt want to be a teacher. I did not want to be a nurse. Librarians have to want to teach today. I did not want to be a nurse. Im old enough that there were not that many other choice is. I knew i could find a job pretty much anywhere in the u. S. Did you want to leave your hometown . Was that part of it . Just curious. I wanted to be mobile. Not necessarily that i wanted to run away, but i was living in a time where they graduated from college and left home, they didnt go back home. [laughter] big if you didnt know it. The warmispensed with and fuzzy part. Again, talking to people about the bad things about libraries. The first thing no disrespect to anybody was homeless and porn. The second is what is it for . My father is a library freak. He lives in or make burbank. He said last week they advertise that it was so hot, everybody could go to the library. It was library as cooling center. Library is a place to sleep during the day. Form distribution. Porn distribution. That irks a lot of people. People dont understand it. One of you i spoke to earlier said lets hit head on. Lets talk about homelessness and porn at the library. Having worked at many urban libraries, dealing with all kinds of customers and populations is challenging, and we are one of the only free opportunities for people to come out of the cold, the heat, whatever. In terms of dealing with people who are homeless, we once to make sure we are helping them in their struggle. For instance, the San Francisco Public Library as well as many other libraries have social workers on duty to do interventions with homeless folks. Libraries have very well thought out rules of conduct. We expect everyone to behave so we have a safe and comfortable environment. That has to do with the issue of pornography, and looking at inappropriate information. Our codes of conduct really address that. I have to say, and i have said in previous interviews, sorry folks, but people have been looking at pornography and masturbating in Public Libraries for a long time. We have had to deal with this for a long time. It is just in a different container as we say about all our information. There is a visual. You grimace at that. Susan parker, want to go to you next. Susan i can tell you that you may think that a persons homeless by the way that they look, but you do not know that. Again, libraries are a place where we are trying not to be judgmental on those levels. When we have a budget crisis a few years back at ucla and decided we had to roll back the 24 7 library, we heard from the Student Association right away that we had some homeless students at ucla news to me it opened my eyes. And they were depending on the library as part of their support system at night. I think since a lot of us were surprised to learn this, because you do not necessarily know by looking at people what the situation is that they are dealing with. In so libraries traditionally are about helping people in a private way. You know, i do not know the identity of everybody. Privacy in the library is a key element. You mentioned the introduction of a social worker in San Francisco. What year was that . We began working with the department of social services when i was working there. That was probably 2004. I believe they now have a full time social worker on staff and has been for several years. It is addressing issues and helping our population. At some point, does that possibly dilute the purpose of is it some way making librarians and librarys responsible for social ills that all of us should be tending to . You guys are so generous that you are going to help . Is there a limit to what you can do and that library . Unfortunately we exist in a system where a lot of the normal services that would support Mental Health issues, Poverty Issues etc. Have been stripped away, whether it is the economy or other political decisions. Because the library is among the few civic assets that is still relatively open, that is inevitably what happens. I think the best libraries realize they can be part of the solution. They engage with community partners, whether it is Public Health workers. Tucson Public Library has a nurse on staff. Social workers on staff. Food banks, other kinds of things. A library can be a fundamental platform for a lot of players in the community to come together. We are a wonderful Distribution Channel not only for information in book or database format, but also in general civic information. So to all of you, at no point does tending to social ills make your job your primary job, which is presumably archiving and distributing information to the broader public does it ever come into conflict with other aspects of your job . We are comfortable providing information, whether that is Health Information or where you can go get a meal. We are comfortable with providing information. One thing i will say about pornography, if you have any available access to free information, it will be used toward some of these more negative ends. Case in point, new york city introduced their kiosks that replaced public telephone booth. This past week, they announced they would be disabling internet on them because individuals were using them for pornography. If they had asked librarians about this at the time it is not the nature of libraries, it is the nature of information. And of a public place. Yes. There is a survey by pew 2016 most recent on libraries. 69 of respondents say their local libraries contribute a lot to providing a safe place for people to spend time. What did surprise me is that 50 58 think they contribute a lot toward creating Educational Opportunities of all ages. So, the notion of safe space actually had more respondents saying yes then the notion of creating Educational Opportunities. Does that surprise you . It actually doesnt. I cant read your face well. Because you look slightly surprised. [laughter] well now, it doesnt surprise me. I say space especially and our contemporary society is more valuable. Neutral space. People are seeking that. Those numbers are pretty close. As much as seeking educational opportunity. Eu you wont say that come november 9 that those numbers are close. To play library start that role . Of safe space . We have always played the role. Of safe space in our community. I think that is a consistent goal and value to our communities on our behalf. Just in terms of the educational statistic, there are many people who may not use libraries or not be as aware of libraries. They do not understand the role libraries play in educating all ages, all levels in our community. Libraries brand is books and many folks still think of libraries as book warehouses. We have gone far beyond that. Depending on who pew was surveying, i dont think everyone understands that we are part of the educational ecosystem in our communities. Filling gaps afterschool weekends, so that educational role is critical, but i dont think it is as recognized as i would like it to be. I talk about it constantly, that role. Society shifting. Our idea of education is front of room to an audience. Increasingly we are learning how learning is,r facility learning. Those are things we have in libraries. We are made learning that what we are doing is of educational value. I find it odd that you say the link is not really taught. That is the number one link to me. None of you think it is our that space comessafe before learning . I find it a branding issue. I think it is still part of the what is a library for. Use does you say this for all of these things. It is a hard thing in america when you cant say what your principal reason for being is. I dont get what your principal reason for being is. So far, it is everything. What dont you do . This thing about safe space is maybe more important today. If you asked that question to an audience 10 years ago, it may not have resonated the same way. Another Important Library moment for me as a child was being able to have the privacy to go and look up information that was maybe kept from me at home. If you have people who are gay or trans or any number of situations, it is a safe space for people to find out about themselves. That is really interesting. So it is a safe space intellectually as well . Absolutely. That may be the librarys best brand. People want to contest what is contained in a library because they care what messages people have access to. Our value for intellectual freedom. Host one of the classic arguments for the necessity of libraries is that they exist to nurture unenlightened electorate. Again, i will just let that lie. Im obsessed, im sorry. Is that still true . Youre all going to say yes it is, but im not going to the library to look up prognostications and Opinion Pieces and polls in florida today, im going on the interwebs. One of the challenges we now face is there are multiple spaces where people are segmenting themselves into. We have private health clubs or starbucks or any coffeehouse or something. We do not have the opportunity to mix anymore. The Public Library hopefully remains one of the civic spaces where you encounter people from different perspectives, where you are on a level playing field, where it isnt necessarily a program space. I think our society is tending to move towards a state where we are spending less time together, i worry if we continue to play that role, i think city support libraries and Community Support libraries, the way that they should, we can move away from that. Host you mention starbucks. They seek to be a place where people convene and read even. All sorts of the cafe culture. Does that in any way diminish the popularity or compete with libraries at all . I think it is funny that coffee houses and restaurants are trying to become more neutral spaces where your full transaction is not the menu item. They want you to come in and work and socialize with friends and do lots of Different Things. I worry that that always comes at a cost. It is funny that they are stealing a lot of the elements that have made libraries what they are. We have always allowed you to do any number of things. However you want to function in a library, and you dont have to give something to your loyalty app or order something off of a menu. You could in here and be who you are. I dont know if they are intentionally doing it, but they are certainly taking some of the elements away from libraries. I would think when you said there is more corporations seeking to create civic space at a cost. You have to pay for the latte, right . You see it as a potential threat. I think it could be a potential threat. I think it should also be taken as a complement to a certain extent that we have been doing things the right way for a long time. We hope people become aware that you pay for that freedom in those spaces with your user data, by signing into their wifi networks, any one of a number of things. Are their efforts afoot in libraries across the country to create new ways to convene people . I definitely think there are many ways. We have had a convening role in our history. For instance, many Public Libraries have embarked on maker spaces, which are really great opportunities to allow kids and families to be creative together. There are many ways we are engaging people. Sortspaces, all different of things. But in terms of your question about democracy and how are we supporting democracy, i think that libraries have a great opportunity to really take on a significant role in the community as a community facilitator. There is so much dissension in some of our communities as we have segmented groups, and the library can play the role of bringing those controversial groups together. When we do that and i think as we do not, and we see this in some areas, it could be clashing somewhat with are very much respected role of neutrality. So, neutrality is a huge value for libraries. If we do get into the space of bringing differing points of view together, that is a huge service for our community. We can support informational resources to understand those discussions. We also have to make sure we are very trained to do that effectively, because we do not want to lose that concept of being a neutral place. So this will be convening more than providing information. At ucla, for example, we provide public programming in the library that is open to anyone, not just the university community, but on a range of topics. Sometimes it is designed to highlight collections that we have, especially if they relate particularly to los angeles. Depending on the library and the focus, they may be able to curate audiences, that are defined in ways like you want to hear about art from this one are expert and then look at the paintings on display next door. There is different combinations to do that. Veryries definitely are forward in looking at programming and trying to convene different kinds of interactions. More on third spaces. Miguel, do you envision evolution of this . Are there any as this competition occurs, as you see willow are libraries convening be a larger function in 20 years than it is now . We see libraries already rearranging their spaces so we make available more flexible seating. You can go into a library and rearrange the furniture. The librarians do not get mad. Notn p susan h anymore, no. Miguel we see spaces that can space one day, an auditorium the next day. I want flex ability to accommodate the range of activities. No longer the third between work and home. We are also a third space between what you want to do yesterday and what you want to do tomorrow. Gregory are you the most responsible arm of government . Susan h absolutely. Great very that was a softball, susan. I know that people want the fire department, but you do not want them to come, because you would have a fire. But i think libraries are so beloved and respected by their communities. And i think one of the challenges is that sometimes well,not understand in a way it is good if we are seeing is not part of government, because that is not always positive. On the other hand, i think people generally do not have a very clear understanding in particular of how Public Libraries are funded. They see it on the corner. They expect it to be there. It is going to be there. It is funded in different ways, and it is complicated. That can be difficult. I really do think that in terms of the ability to help our communities and also be a gateway to other government functions, that people have a hard time understanding, library is the place that will do that. Gregory i want to get to reading for a second. I found myself it is depressing. I am a late adopter to all things. I have young employees who teach me to use computers. The other day, i was reading the genocide,e rwandan and i found myself reading it on my phone, and it seemed a bit wrong. There is a kindle app on my phone. I was waiting for my wife. There was something what is great, i can still read, right . , i dont was something know, slightly disrespectful, slightly unfulfilling. Slightly it was not sort of a relaxing, sensual experience. You dream of a leather chair that i never bought. But it seemed like a slightly diminished reading experience. Susan p there is something to that. I am not a digital native. Sometimes it is more convenient when we asked her students, which you rather have print books or ebooks . They go, we would rather have print books, because they help us learn better. And we have expensive gregory why . Susan h why, because they can focus. Sometimes students have many devices on at the same time, many apps, and that is a distraction. But there is nothing about the book except you and the book. Studyiting a research with ucla students last year. Gregory i find when i read books on kindle, i often do not know what the title is and who the author is. I just read this great book. Who was it . I dont know. Because you are not picking up and looking. From an attention perspective, we can argue. The common enemy is not reading. That is something my boss often says. Gregory but i my reading in a serious way about a genocide on my phone . Susan h it is not it is both. Susan p really,. Susan h stop judging yourself. Gregory i am starting to really think librarians are saying. You think about that, we are such a busy culture. Say you are reading a particular book. We will call it a book. The format can be a variety of things. You are home reading. You want to have a nice experience in your leather chair. You want a book on the plane with you, so you are going to use your kindle. You have a trip and you want to still read the book or hear the book and you want it in an audiobook. Too feel we are often focused on the format, and libraries have adapted to a wide variety of formats over the years. And it is really all about getting you the reading context for what you want to do. Gregory to all of you, how is this tension playing out within designes, these of the and how to use space for one purpose over another . Susan p a lot of what we are doing right now is finding ways to store the printed books or collaborate within regions so that we all collectively have a Storage Facility where they are all just available. But that frees up space within the library. Gregory fewer stacks will be available onsite . Susan p yes. Yes . Some people say yes. Gregory you made a choice. Susan p that is a choice. Gregory so if i want a printed book in 20 years, it will take perhaps a day or two for you to get it from the warehouse. Susan p or maybe this afternoon. Gregory i dont want to come back. Susan p in 20 years, we may have a way to get it to you so you will not have to come to the physical library. Susan h we are going to use drones. There you go. Miguel everyone elses. Why not us. Susan p there is no library that is big enough to hold all of the many things. Gregory unfortunately, you just answered one of the questions i want to ask. One of the beauties of bookstores is serendipity. You go in thinking you are going to buy a book on a cat, but you come out with a book on birds. That is the beauty of a library. And that is going to go away. It is going to be this cell subscribing narrative of the New York Times sending you all the subjects on sports. It wouldi did not say go away. It will take a smaller footprint. Susan h it is not going to go away. Gregory if the stacks are gone, the serendipity of looking for this book susan h they are not disappearing. There will be collections of materials. When you talk to people who use Public Libraries, they will often say, i really love the bookmobile, because the connection is the collection is less, and i can manage. Where, i want a small branch. We will have collections. At the browsing experience is really about having material to choose from. You do not need to have miles and miles of stacks, because that will not give you the nice browsing experience. We are not going to let that go. People still care about that. Isknow that ebook reading leveling off. We knew it would, and it is. People still want to read books and browse. It is not either or. Both and. Gregory re books a fat that is going to go away . Susan h they are not a fad. Miguel they are not going to take over. Gregory you are telling me it is not zerosum. Susan p no, it is not either or. It is both. Gregory this morning, looking at facebook, something popped up , saying, destroy the myth that libraries are no longer relevant. If you user library, please share. Is it really that dire . There is something going around. That is why we did this panel tonight. Is there any threat to libraries . And why would a librarian put this on facebook . What is the threat . Miguel we are passionate people. Gregory [laughter] miguel we started talking a little bit about the library. The library has a fundamental brand which is books. Positive, andur unfortunately sometimes to our negative, it is people say, we do not need these warehouses of books, because we can put them online. Were starting to see that, as we have discussed with the stacks but the fact is that information , is changing at a rapid rate, and libraries, and certainly library professionals, have had better equip people to navigate that information. We can get rid of a storehouse full of books. That is true. But we should probably not get rid of a space allows us to do a lot of Different Things with a lot of different information. That is fundamental to our economy, to our democracy, to learning everything. Nogory so, susan, there is threat at all to libraries and the willingness to find them by the public . We are all good . It is all caps at it . All copacetic . Why are we having this event . Susan h i think that is a really i think that is a good question. I mentioned earlier on that the complexity of Library Funding is something the public does not easily understand. When our elected officials have to make choices, we want to make sure they are informed and make good choices. But its hard. Its difficult. But i think, you know i really do think that Library Funding, particularly at the local level and all of our Public Libraries are funded probably 90 locally it is what were doing to make a difference, and we can make the argument at a local level and retain good funding. Surveys showing public support for libraries . Is it constant . Is it steady over time . Susan h i think it has been steady. Well, i should we had a difficult time in the recession, but everybody had a difficult time. And we have come back to more Stable Funding since the recession. I also think that in many Public Libraries around the country, as well as other types of libraries too, local funding, friends groups, foundations, libraries have begun to be more engaged in fundraising, private fundraising, to help augment public funding. But we have really achieved a steadystate after the recession. I think that was hard for everybody. Gregory susan parker do you , deny that there is some sort of a worry out there in society that libraries may not have the purpose that they once had in the digital age . Susan p i think there is a trope that people find easy to put in a tweet. Gregory has anybody ever said that to you . Susan p well, yes. They guy who checks me out at the the same drugstore that use all the time asked me once what it did for 11 and i told him i i did for a living and i told , him i was a librarian, and he said i am so sorry. [laughter] susan p and i am thinking, why did you say that . And he says, as you are not going to have a job soon. And i thought, ok, maybe you think you dont need a library, but the fact is that if you are fortunate enough to be able to buy the book that you want to read today on amazon, if youre able to have it shipped to your home fortunate enough to own computer, if you are fortunate enough to be able to subscribe to wireless internet in your home, the maybe libraries are less obvious to you. If you are employed in dont have to seek employment or try to retool yourself for a new career, maybe you dont think you need libraries. And, you know, so i think these are things that people do not necessarily associate with libraries because librarians are not really the best p. R. Regions for ourselves, i think. Gregory you guys are pretty good. Is there a sense out there that libraries may become obsolete . Because of the digital age, it is an incorrect sense . Miguel i think a very simplified understanding of what libraries do, or an integrated idea of what libraries do. It is easy to dismiss that idea. When you hear the wide range of what happens in a k12 school library, a high school library, an academic library, a Public Library you become much more , aware of how vital way are to to economic developing. Gregory but you are not able to convince the public on a bond measure . Susan p absolutely. Susan h absolutely. A gentleman started a wonderful Organization Called the debacle digital Public Library of america. He talks about a new nostalgia. He talks about this nostalgia, this antiquated view, that is really in fact, that is the challenge, the antiquated view. It is not what we do, but how do we create a new nostalgia of people understanding the amazing, enriching roles we play, and having that is their mindset of the library, as opposed to the book warehouse, or heaven forbid somebody standing there with the bun. We still got that bun thing going on. We got to get rid of that. New nostalgia. Gregory i like the new nostalgia. In the digital age, nostalgia it seems is driven a lot by texture, by intimacy, by moments, by feelings. I never have a feeling with my kindle. The digitization of space is minimalist, right . There is not a lot of warmth in a minimalistic age. I wonder if youre going to have a tough time making these wonderful childhood cozy moments with this new nostalgia you are talking about. How are you going to do that in this digitized space with fewer books . Susan p by making these spaces people want to be in, by making them a comfortable space. You said, the leather chair you never bought. Gregory it is a fantasy. Susan p what if we had one in a cozy space in a library . You might enjoy that. Libraries are creating different environments and ecosystems even within the same being same building. There are Different Things you want to do in a library. Today, you might want to do one thing. Later on today, you might want to do another thing. Theres a time you just want to just be alone with your thoughts and study and be quiet. There is another time that maybe you want to meet with somebody over coffee and have a conversation. By the way, we decided to put the cafe inside the library. Gregory you have sushi. Susan p we do, yes. Sushi and espresso. Gregory [laughter] susan p our idea is make it a , place where people really want to be. That does build on itself. New library buildings, whether they are Public Libraries, academic libraries, or even libraries in schools are definitely building these kinds of spaces that facilitate the Different Things you do in your day or the kind of things you want to accomplish. What do you want to create or share . And i think that that is really the new genius of libraries is really looking at that space for what it is. I was just looking at i was in calgary recently and they are building a new Public Library and it is really a tremendous offering of optimism, i would say, if nothing else, civic optimism about the community and all of the things and all of the people they want to welcome into that space, with the different thoughts they put in. Gregory miguel, your thoughts on design . Miguel i would go back to the new nostalgia. One of the observations i have made book authors always have very fond thoughts of libraries and librarians in particular. Part of it is because they have used that space to create something new. I think what of the things that is starting to happen with the democratization of information, and certainly new technologies and resources is i see it in my own city of chicago Public Library. A lot of young people go to the new media center, where they use Information Services to produce something new a video, whatever it may be. They 3d print something. They walk out of there with a new sense of nostalgia because they go through the process of creation, fundamentally, at that library. That is what is going to start it. That process of creation will replace that the textual thing we started with. We are going to have those fond memories of, that is the place where i became a creator. That is the place where i took all of the information the library and had curated for me gregory i cannot crack these guys. They are good. That was fantastic. The you have a smartypants answer . [laughter] susan p no i second miguel. What does the library look like in 2100, assuming we are still here, we being the United States . Susan h we will be here. What does it look like . It looks like a welcoming space for all ages. All types of gregory come on, specifically what does it look like . You go is there sushi . The use of space in the future . Susan h so as we said gregory no more stacks. Susan h if not you will have an , area over here were kids are creating. You will have an area over here were people are doing all kinds of things together. You will have stacks, you will have some materials. You will have electronic materials. You are going to have movable flexibility. Gregory do libraries need to be larger in the future because of the multiplicity of options . Susan h that is an interesting question. And you think about the build infrastructure in this country of libraries, it is unbelievable. We have a huge built infrastructure. It is an asset all our communities have. And i dont know that they necessarily have to get larger that depends on the community. But they have to be more flexible. They have got to be flexible. If we need to have some kind of a cafe people love the cafes we also need a gift shop, to be making some extra revenue. Welcoming. Gregory can you drink coffee at libraries . Miguel yes. Susan h yes. Depends on the coffee. Susan p if you put a top on it. That is the important thing. We dont even care about it anymore. Gregory back in the day, there was a prohibition. Is a culture change for librarians as much as anyone else. Gregory you guys have me librarians seem to be a peer to be very nimble. Are you exceptions . Are you come on, talk bad about somebody. [laughter] susan h no, were not going to do that. I will take the opportunity to say that we can celebrate the fact that we have a real live librarian as the librarian of congress. Carla hayden first , africanamerican, first woman. Real librarian. [applause] susan h we are awesome. Gregory we heard earlier, is there a threat of losing librarians to new media to Silicon Valley . Is that are you considering an offer right now to sellout . Cell out, susan . Susan h not me. Im sure younger ones. I think what miguel had said and he will comment on this the skills that we have in libraries are really marketable skills for all kinds of places. In fact a lot of the folks that , come out of the school at the university of washington, we love them to work in our libraries. One of the challenges is you can , make more money in the private sector. That goes back to our funding. Gregory how is enrollment for Library Sciences degrees . Susan p i dont know if you have the latest figures, but now, even Silicon Valley has discovered that information expertise is perhaps the most valuable degree. Gregory getting a Library Science masters might be helpful going into Silicon Valley . Miguel we are seeing a broadening to the information professions. It is a study of information rather than the specificity of a library. There are still masters and Library Sciences, their masters but there is also a masters in information. There are a lot of people who bring outside skills and blend them into the functions of a library. We see a lot of that. But unfortunately, i mean we , went through it economic downturn like the rest of everyone, so we saw a downturn in available jobs. Were seeing some of those come back. Gregory to answer to ask you the question of the evening do libraries have a future . All of you seem quite optimistic. Miguel we have been around for a long time. Susan h and we are going to stay. I amry correct me if wrong. It is about being responsible to the public. I have not asked about demographic changes. Digital, technological changes you are responsible to, social needs, social ills. Design will shift. Format will shift. I am still assessed you will get rid of stacks one day. Susan h not all of them. Gregory i guess there is really no reason to worry about libraries. Miguel well, there is a reason to worry about libraries. We need community involvement. We cannot exist solely by ourselves. We want people to worry with us. Gregory you are not doing a good job of making us worry. Miguel be helpful in the process. Susan p no, it is a crisis. We are nothing without all of you. I think it is a wonderful way to think about it. Because it is a dynamic. It isnt we dont just stand around on our own. We are of the public. Gregory last question, because i think you have answered all the questions i had is the notion of the bun on the back of the head and a librarian, you guys are really savvy. You guys are good. You guys are responsive. Is this so, what is the publics is the publics perception broadly of librarians accurate . You guys are you guys deal with difficult humans myself included all the time. Susan h i will just go back to the nostalgia thing. I do not think the perception is accurate. Gregory what is the perception, first. Susan h the perception that we are quiet, we are unassuming, we just want to shelve the books, that kind of thing. [laughter] susan p who wants to do that . Rid of we want to get those bookshelves so we dont have to show them anymore. [laughter] susan h people who are engaged in their communities. We have to be out there getting to know people. We do that all the time. And to be effective, and to maintain and increase our critical funding, we must be extremely strategic and political. And i think most of the librarians i know know their communities, know where they are know where they need to be, and they are seen as key players in that community. And that is where we want to be and where we need to be. Gregory i would ask you to respond to that, but unless you have any words, were going to end on that was a brilliant, wonderful panel. Wonderful fun. Brilliant. Thank you so much for coming. [applause] you guys are good. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] it is time to take questions with all of you. There are two of us going around with microphones. Please raise her hand and we will come to you. You say your first and last name before the question. This is recorded by us. It will be up on zillow public zocalo public square. You can share with friends, family, students. Cspan is here, and that will be nationally broadcast and on their website at some point after the election. First question on the right . Type i have done research and published author, i have a great nostalgia for the stacks, going back to my undergraduate days at a Small College in new england. My question is regarding the stacks and the sociability of the space. When i went back to the ucla library after the absence of a decade, i was shocked. Of course, i was shocked that no card catalog still exists im a dinosaur. But also that i saw the cafe and the students in these weird spaceage hives. And when i would go upstairs into the stacks roaming and , hopefully finding something by accident, since most of my research has led to accidental discoveries i dont find anyone up there anymore. Is i dont find , anyone up there. My question for you is what is happening socially to student life if students are not interacting in those stacks . Well, the Research Library is one of 10 libraries time,a, and most of the the undergraduates prefer to be in the undergraduate library, the howell library. The other thing you are talking about is, the amount of funds that it takes to renovate a Library Space to make it less is a50 years old looking lot. So our money ran out on the second floor. [laughter] susan p so there is three additional floors that we would love to renovate. And if we do renovate it so there is enough wifi access and enough power, and the right kind of furniture where people can work comfortably, they will be there, as they are in some of our other libraries. So i think some of it is just a matter of making it comfortable and optional enough, and it will be there. As i said earlier, write about an hour from now, there will be more people up there. It depends on the time of day. Or is no question. I think about some of the libraries that i used as a student, and i would really rather never do that again. So it is a slow process, unfortunately. Your left. Stion, on brandon my name is brandon marney, and i have two questions. I read on Benjamin Franklins Wikipedia Page that he invented the first Lending Library in america. Is that true . Second, if your library was burning, which book would you bring out of it . [laughter] gregory well done. Wow. P susan h the free library of philadelphia was the first. There will be discussions about this, because i think boston has that claim. Susan p yes, boston. That h but i am sure Benjamin Franklin was doing the right thing. And that is a tough question about i feel like i would not take out a book. I would probably go and get out the fine drawer, and take that out. [laughter] gregory so much for burnishing the image of the librarian. Susan h not for my personal use think most librarians would struggle between their own Favorite Book and the book they would find the most useful to their community of users, or something. It is impossible. Susan p it is really impossible. We have a really significant special collection. You asked thaten question, i started to freak out, and probably wont be able to sleep tonight. [laughter] susan p i may have to sleep there so i will be able to get as many things out as possible. It is like your children. Gregory next question is on your right. I am not sure i really have a question. I wanted to say thank you. First of all, i came tonight thinking, what is going to happen to banks and libraries and things like that . But the truth is, i am a Public School teacher, and i cannot tell you how many times a week i have to tell my students, you can go print that at the library. You can type that up at the library. They do not have those resources. We are not talking about kids who are k12. I teach high school. So thank you for making a place i do not know what i would say to these kids if they are like, i do not have a printer at home. I do not have a computer at home. That is a really important thing. I do not know how we do that. Thank you. I do not know if you have any comments on that. That is what i thought until i got here tonight. Susan h that is a great comment. We did not talk much this evening about the role that libraries play in providing access to the internet and other resources. Many of us here have these mobile devices and wireless at home. We do not even think about it. There is still at least 20 if not more various populations that do not have access to the internet. It is the Critical Role that we do. Most of our libraries in california are lucky to have good access to very robust internet. People have that broadband access. It is that Critical Role we play. And one of the reasons we are surviving is that broadband access. Next question on your left. Leslie lesley farmer. I have a couple of comments, to build on what susan just said. I think of libraries as civic safety nets. They are places where, as you say, not only do they consume information, but also produce it. I teach school librarianship. One of the things our students do is having kids create books, and then those books they join the library collection. So that becomes a part of their contribution to the library that continues onwards. And also just mentioned that the university of long beach, which is where i teach we did renovate all six floors. Thank you very much. There is tons of stacks, the we and have compact storage, it takes folks five minutes so it will not take a whole afternoon. Our starbucks is in the library. [laughter] i have so the question because they said, make sure it is a question what do you think in terms of Library Education . You are saying, those librarians will go into industry. Have you considered that maybe they are bringing librarianship as a mold into business and other areas where there is information, and a profession . On that can i jump quickly . I am sure we have other comments. I just began teaching graduate Library Students at the university of washington. They just came for their orientation. One of the things that was absolutely inspirational to me is that most of those kids were there, students were there, because they wanted to make a difference in their communities. So whatever the community is, be it public, academic, business the fact that students were coming to make a difference in their Community Inspired me to try to be a good instructor and mentor for them. Miguel i think the value of Library Education continues to be the shared value of our profession. It is where we develop our values for intellectual freedom, diversity, and equity of access that you have heard in the previous comments, for Civic Engagement and other types of things. We apply that in other different environments. , even inbraries industry and other things as information expands and becomes more available, hopefully people will continue to think about the importance of those things, even as the other trends would be very different. Think that, you know, it is kind of amusing to some of us who have been around for a long time when google thought they invented metadata and they discovered searching, you know, they were really excited about all of were like these geek out kids studying this stuff a long time ago. I never knew what the word metadata was. Almost everybody here has probably heard that word. So teaching information skills at the graduate level can lead to librarianship, but can lead to may be making google or other search even better. Gregory next question is on your right. Noah my name is noah smith. Changingology has been by leaps and bounds every year, every decade. Are the examples digitization of books as well as the coming advent of virtual reality. So with the changes of technology kept in mind, do you think there is still a strong books in a physical form, or as the future moves on, should libraries be seen more as safe spaces and Community Centers . Miguel i think a lot of us are connected to the physical object still, so i think the physical book is going to survive, hopefully in a really convenient format for the distribution of information. I think that will continue to be important. One of the great things about libraries we talked about them as a space for providing fundamental Technology Services access to the internet or any other thing. I think sometimes people forget that libraries, in whatever environment they are, are usually the first spaces to introduce new technology into their communities. So, 3d printers have been widely distributed to libraries. We are starting to see more libraries distributing virtual and other types of things. So we balance between on the french, ahead of the adoption by consumers, and our traditional values in the printed book. We can do both. It does not have to be either or. Next question, on your left. Zocalo. T want to thank i am jodey. I am a librarian from san diego county. I drove up for this. My leader is in red right now. All totion for you address a little bit is, science , and how you address things like that stereotype that most of the public has about librarians. Also about how it does impact funding in certain ways. I know in our system, it does a little bit. And then finally, what the digitization of our materials the impact it is going to have on both the Public Perception as. Ell as our funding i mean, i dont want to get too specific, but we do have a cap addressed in our funding budget every year. So as long as we continue to do that, we do have a finefree day. But a lot of libraries cannot do that. In terms of the fines, this is interesting. I am going to have a discussion with my students about library fines. Because we know that library fines, fees, whatever, are serving as a barrier for a number of users. Particularly youth. We see that particularly when we are working with School Districts and trying to create easy, convenient card access, and these fines are a barrier. On the other hand, many parents and caregivers will say it provides responsibility. As you were talking about your laminated card it is a responsibility. Do we want to take that away from particularly our young people . The monetary implication, depending on your jurisdictional set up sometimes, those fines are going into a general fund. The city may not like that, but that is no loss to you. I think it is not really about the monetary loss. It is much more about the policy discussion about the fines. But i think this is a hot topic in libraries today. A number of libraries are starting to look at their fine structures and possibly eliminate them. And we really want to open up access. I was not i was not sure about your question about the digitization and how that related to fines. Jodey i am sorry. In our system, the books automatically clear off of your tablet in three weeks. There is never a fine for digital materials. If more digital items are checked out, that will sort of affect the bottom line at the end of the fiscal year. But i understand how those funds can get broken up. But hopefully maybe the Public Perception of the need for fines and why that is such a punitive part of their Library Experience but, Library Experiences, and how that would help that, perhaps . Gregory you were talking about the laminated card being a responsibility. Pepsi can answer that. Fines might be part of your whole notion. Myuel my mother one of earliest Library Memories is losing where the wild things are. ,nd my mother losing her mind heading out the door to work. I think susan one of the great things about these conversations is that it opens a dialog with other administrators, who start to understand that libraries are about access, and libraries can restrict the access. We are about equity. It can disenfranchise certain populations from using the library. Something that has to happen within the library. It is best certified in an open dialogue with other decisionmakers, with voters, with any number of people. And balancing the need for responsibility and the need for community assets, that what is owned by the library is owned for a community we have to have a contract between all of us for that. A complicated discussion. Just librarys not fines. Fines and other areas of our communities are also under discussion. We are certainly discussing s for studentsne and faculty, because it can be a barrier. I think shining a light on the funding mechanism for libraries if more people understood that the fines you collect actually contribute to your bottom line, that that is a source of your funding, that is great, is then you kind of think, that might have made sense at one time, but that has to be revisited. So the way that you fund your library is by hoping that more people forget where they left the book . That is a reverse kind of logic that does not work anymore. I think it is important. Gregory but practically speaking, what is the incentive to turn a book back in time . What would you use . Susan h you we get to a point where if you did not return the piece of material, you would have some kind of the or would be responsible. Gregory you would pay to replace it. Susan h the replacement cost. Gregory that is worse than a fine. Susan h you have to anyway. If you do not bring back a piece of material, you have a replacement cost. Also can lead to difficult Customer Service experiences. In fact, one of the things were doing in Public Libraries and academic libraries as well is, we are trying to empower our frontline staff to not feel like they have to enforce every rule and bring back everything go, but look at a persons atuation and make determination. It is all about good Customer Service. I think some of our i often hear people with those Library Stories about some kind of incident. They got in trouble. We would like to erase those memories. Susan p if you open the news, every once in a while, there is a story in joint capital letters 99yearold matron on life support is taken by the Sheriffs Department and locked up, because she owes a library fine. [laughter] happen inhat does some places. That really has to stop. Gregory and is on your right. Hawkins, and this is a small detail about the quality of our experience when we go to our wonderful Public Libraries, especially in central, downtown areas, or impoverished areas which is most areas of the u. S. , as far as i can tell. You have talked about rules of conduct. You have talked about the rule to be welcome to everyone and to help people in a private way. Do you have some idea of how to address those wonderful events that some libraries have, like, wherew, in a classroom they will show a wonderful film, and there is also the bathroom will be somethere people that smell very strongly. They have the right to be there. What solutions do you have so that people do not not go to those events, because the rules of conduct or the help you can get does not address the kind of issue . Well, you know, it is interesting that it is interesting that you bring that up in the setting about a program. Because that is challenging. It is very challenging. What that is an issue that we often have to deal with, particularly in urban Public Libraries. What my philosophy has always individual if another customer or patron comes and is concerned about that, then often we will counsel the particular individual to try to get a shower or something. So that is more of a oneonone kind of thing. And you are in a public program, i think that is challenging. Know seeking change, Something Like that. It is challenging when you are in a group setting. I know he is next question, on your left. David i am david kiffin. David, susan h yeah david the most Robust Library systems and friends organizations tend to concentrate in the neighborhoods that arguably need the least. And what can better funded districts do for libraries, often not so far away, that are not quite so lucky . So, i keep one of the things i keep worrying about his income inequality. We talk about the growing divide in our population between rich and poor. It becomes interesting that we are starting to see that similar divide in cities and city services. So we have this sort of divide. I do not quite know if there is an easy solution for it. One of the in talking with outside advocates from libraries , nonlibrarians who look at our system and our situation and share their little advice they are hardpressed to understand why, as a network of libraries, we are not more uniform in the delivery of innovative programs and other types of things. Heart of it is that funding structure complexity. Governed. Ally each library is unto its own. Projects like the digital Public Library of america or other projects national in scope, that would encourage the sharing of innovation, the rapid dissemination from a wellfunded library to an adaptable format that can be used in lots of libraries, with certainly advance what we are doing. But were kind of limited in having that. It is a complex lending and governing situation in libraries. Libraries have been very good at collaborating with one another over time, and we do have ways. Theyre much more about moving collections alone collections around and making those sorts of resources available. There is still a lot of work to be done, and it is hard work. If your funding structure is about your primary community i often get asked at ucla, why are you paying so much attention to students and faculty . We are a Public Library. Our primary mission is to support them, but we are supporting other members of the public as well. It is not always as simple and cut and dried as it might seem. We just continue to work in that space. Know, i would be glad to work with any one of you. That is actually going to conclude our program. I want to thank the city of west hollywood. And congratulations on five years. The project would not have happened without them. Thank you to them. Thank you to our panelists for traveling near and far to be with us tonight. They will continue to be at our reception. Everyone is invited. Furtherask them questions. And thank you to cspan for recording tonights event. Thank you all of you for showing up. And have a fabulous night. Thank you. [applause] miguel thank you. You guys were great. Susan p thank you very much. On the next washington journal, general Stephen Townsend shows the latest on the fight against isis, including efforts by iraqi forces to retake mosul. Steir talks about the president ial transition process ahead of inauguration day. And head of that, a look at the future of u. S. Nato relations with a former nato secretarygeneral. We will also take your phone calls, tweets, and facebook comments. Washington journal is live every day at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. Cspan where history unfolds daily. In 1979, cspan was created as a Public Service by americas Cable Television companies, and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. We are asking students to participate in this years studentcam documentary competition by telling us, what is the most urgent issue for our next president , donald trump, and the Incoming Congress to address in 2017. Our competition is open to all middle school and high school students, grades six through 12. Students can work alone or in a group of up to three to produce a documentary on the issue selected. A grand prize of 5,000 will go to the student or team with the best overall entry. 100,000 in cash prizes will be rewarded and shared between 150 students and 53 teachers. This years deadline is january 20, 2017. That is inauguration day. Now a discussion on immigration policy and its impact with the u. S. Housing market. Among the speakers is a former urban Housing Development official with the clinton administration. This was part of a daylong conference hosted by the cato institute. It is just over an hour. Welcome back from lunch. I am mark calabria. Work on financial regulation, which often covers real estate, particularly housing and mortgage work. Im also honor to serve as the moderator for this afternoons panel, covering the connections between immigration and real estate. I suspect that every panel, or at least every moderator, took the view that theres was the most crucial and most obviously connected to immigration. I am going to make the argument just for a couple of seconds why i think the impact of immigration on real estate is probably the most important impact in terms of the economy. Perhaps most obviously, the construction sector has long been a major employer of immigrants. And it is also the part of our history that many of our Signature Structures if you think about the brooklyn bridge, the amherst state building, the area canal, or for those of you in washington, the chesapeake , or most impressive of all, the Transcontinental Railroad all of these signature accompaniments involved primarily immigrant labor, whether it was irish, italian, chinese, or countless others. I do not think it would be an exaggeration to say that america was quite literally built by immigrants. Even today, foreignborn workers constitute one in for construction workers. Popular to, i think the perception, only about half of these come from mexico. Many come from asia or europe. Is immigration limited to stucco masons are foreignborn. These are highly skilled occupations. Try doing it yourself some time. Trends in construction employment are highly correlated with movement into and out of the United States. We heard about immigrant net immigration in recent years. I was suggest this is a direct result of the housing lost. Construction is only one dimension of real estate. Immigration directly impacts the demand for real estate, and can change the very dynamic of local real estate markets. When i mentioned phrases like ,ittle italy or chinatown you immediately know what i mean. It does not require expedition. It paints a picture in ones mind of neighborhood dynamics. Of course, immigration was a direct contributor to the rise of tenement housing, which in my opinion ultimately gave rise to a movement for higherquality ho