Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV 20130814

Discusses this in massachusetts for 45 minutes. [applause] thank you. Its an honor to be introduced by a fellow nantucketer both of our kids were educated by them and it is great to see you here in brookline and its wonderful to be in the Coolidge Center theater with this great bookstore and cosponsored with the massachusetts historical society, which has been an institution that has been absolutely essential to my life as a historian. I sometimes sort of feel like ive taken up residence in the archives there, and every book ive done there has been a Central Information that has come from there but among the more so than bunker hill. One of the characters i delve into, the papers are there at what we call the mhs and it is an organization that is essential to anyone that is looking into not just the history of boston, but this country. And the genesis for a bunker hill really goes back to the summer of 1984. My wife and i had just moved to boston fulltime. We were living on prince street in the north end. I was at that time a failing a journalist. But my primary responsibility was to be at home with almost 2yearold daughter jenny. So i had a lot of free time on my hands and i would push the stroller to the crooked streets of the north end. And it was there that hops hill was a favorite hangout. Was there that i began to think what was it like back them. And what i thought back then, i thought of the book that i had read in middle school along with other people in my generation. That just captivated me as well as the movie. And what was revolutionary boston like . So i began to actually look into the history of boston in that year of 1984. On sunday when melissa was at home i would take to the Boston Public Library in the began to look into the history of the city. Soon after that, we would end up on nantuckets and quickly my growing interest in history was directed to my new adopted home. And i went on that path. But it was after writing quote tome flower which begins with the famous voyage but in this with king philips war, vv war between the english native people of this region that i began to realize i wanted to continue the story so to speak. The mayflower and since 1676. And even in the midst of this terrible battle, it was amazing. The governor of massachusetts insisted to an agent from the king, king charles ii he would be why is if anything to give more liberty to those in america. And their own General Court lacked all enacted by that superseded anything they were going to get from the parliament. It sounded very much like what was going to be said 100 years later. And was then that i began to think we are going to continue the story and do something about the revolution. Then write a book about the battle of little big horn last stand and was working on that book about a very complicated battle that i began to set my sight on the battle of bunker hill. From the beginning i didnt see this as a battle book. All of my books one way or another are about communities under enormous stress. Whether they are on a ship or both boat or taking a passage into the unknown world, those are the kind of stories that i find of interest and what interested me is what happened to the people of boston in the revolution. I knew that bunker hill was going to be the pivot point. It seemed to make sense that i should start after the Boston Tea Party when britain responded with the dumping of three shiploads of tea into Boston Harbor with the institution of the boston port act, which basically shut down the town of commercially and sealed off the port and would begin with the arrival of the Lieutenant General and the royal governor thomas gage, military governor, and the four regiments of the british regulars. It would take this lead to the uptick of tension as boston became a militarily occupied the city to the skirmishes at lexington and concord with bunker hill being the point at which violence turned from skirmishes into an allout war. The battle of bunker hill was that turning point when i was realized that this was going to be something more than a dustup. That could be dealt with diplomatically. This was going to move into the new and truly terrifying directions. What a lot of people think of outside of boston is the look to the revolutionary boston and think of boston as the center of the patriot defiance, which it originally was. But with the arrival of the general gage and his growing army of british regulars to grow to almost 9,000 by the end of the occupation of boston, boston became instead of the center of patriot defiance, it became it was turned inside out as they began to flee the city particularly soon after lexington concord which created a wave of panic throughout new england and not just the bostonian began to leave the city that people that lived around boston began to flow out. They became empty of most of its inhabitants. This was an island. A was truly an Island Community pitting it was interesting for me they have a yearround population of about 15,000 to think that on nantucket to think that boston was basically an island connected by land known as the mac as narrow as 100 yards but there was the silent dominated by three hills almost of mountainous proportions with a small town of 15,000 people crammed into a group of houses in the north and south bend. So this was an island and was easily after lexington conquered as the patriot inhabitants fled out, there would be 3,000 nonmilitary people left in the city. Most of them are loyalist refugees and a smattering of patriots who decided to leave, decided to stay so that they could look after their houses along with the 9,000 soldiers and so boston became a city under siege as the patriot militia who had been involved in the skirmishes in lexington concord and the towns well beyond flooded into cambridge and roxbury on either side of boston. And they literally surrounded the city. And so, lost and was now the former center of defiance was a british garrison under a patriot siege. The point of the siege is to cut off the city and starve to death. This wasnt great to have been in boston because the english had the navy, the british navy with men of war and other ships throughout the harbor. And you know, today the town of nantucket, excuse me, the town of boston is now the city of boston and it is almost unrecognizable to the way that it was. Many of the hills that once defined the high land that was boston or shaved down to fill in the back bay that was water. The river came in much closer. It is now washington. As you walk that in fact was the nec as you come in from now the south bend and to boston. It was one of dozens to occupy the gigantic Boston Harbor and the british had the needy. They kept the entrance open so they could get provisions whether they be from england or from canada. This meant that even though they were completely surrounded by land, boston as a british occupied garrison wasnt going to start. In june of 1775 and this was a battle like none other to it like a terrified young spectator event for those not only living in boston, but in towns around all of the roots of boston were filled with people watching as more than 2,000 regulars made their way across the harbor and the Charles River to the charlestown peninsula and began the assault that would erupt into the battle of bunker hill. So this was something viewed by anyone here and then there would settle into a stalemate that would then have George Washington archive and that would change anything. And then eventually in march 17, 1776, the british would be forced to evacuate the arming of Dorchester Heights and i will get to that later but that is the art i wanted to tell in the story with the attack of tensions with the air rifle of the boston port act and then with of the evacuation. So when i began this Research Almost immediately, i realized the characters i was right focus on because what was happening as the tensions building in boston is the Continental Congress met for the first time in philadelphia in the fall of 1774 which meant the leaders such as john adams and ann adams were out of town when all of this was beginning to unleash and the tensions were escalating with the boston port act but it was really an act that followed this , the massachusetts governors act that robbed the talon moly of its commercial way of life but it is government, the entire province lost the town meetings were basically outlawed except for an annual one and the town meetings had been they had been the fundamental way of life in the town and they have also been the fundamental lifeblood of the Patriot Movement. Because it was sam adams who was in many ways the presiding presence as the tensions built between Great Britain and the american colonies particularly in massachusetts. And was but he had a problem that by 1772, two years after the boston massacre and on selling koln was selling on boston. The Patriot Movement was losing steam. It was in that fall that he instituted the Boston Committee of correspondence and a was a brilliant move because what he did is create a network of communication that had never existed before in which a 21 Member Committee in boston would write up the tracks the were then distributed to the 250 towns throughout massachusetts. And remember this is a time that massachusetts included what is now modern maine. This transformed the meetings of were devoted to discussing things like repairing roads and bridges and turned them in on the issues of the day. One of the first tracks that was distributed was an argument to how the natural rights of man superseded anything of the parliament could determine. They soon got a bunch of responses from the towns throughout massachusetts about why we feel this is important and suddenly adams found a network of communication that was independent of the government that allowed people for what massachusetts to talk among one another to share ideas and the letters began to come in with the correspondence and towns throughout massachusetts and they began to get unusual responses. One of them i would like to read one from the book one response was from the town which is about 10 miles inland of what is now portland, maine. What became clear is if there were radicals in Massachusetts Committee on not necessarily in boston. They are in all of the towns surrounding them because many of these people saw their current problems not so much in the terms of what representation and parliament, but in terms of their freedoms, freedoms they felt had been burned by their ancestors in the blood of the indian war that had preceded all this and i think that this is for the citizens the fight for liberty and now i am quoting from my book it wasnt about the current frustrations with parliament. It was about the anger and violence that went with colonizing of this ancient land. Our eyes have seen our Young Children weltering in our own houses and our friends lead in captivity they wrote to the Boston Committee of correspondence in january, 1773. Just 16 years before it had been attacked in a native rate and several people had been killed. Several of deducted. This was still fresh in their memories. We had been used during our daily bread with our weapons in our hands, therefore we cannot be supposed to be fully acquainted with the mysteries of court policy but we look upon ourselves as able to judge so far concerning our right as men. We look with horror and indignation of the violation. Many of our women had been used to handling the cartridge and load the muskett and password that we have for our enemies are not yet grown rusty. And so, what they had discovered is if these growing tensions should ever move in the direction of violence, ballan militiamen and the two entered 50 tons of massachusetts were there for them. And if the words were in january of 1773 with any indication, these people were willing to fight. So the tensions with uptick. Sam adams, john adams and several other leaders were on their way to philadelphia at the end of august and release of tumbler of 1774. Thomas gage, the british general, has been put in an impossible situation. He might have had a chance at convincing the people of boston to pay for their tea and to begin to respect the authority of the parliament if they had stuck with the boston port act that when they came up with of the massachusetts Government Act that meant he appointees replacing people that from their perspective should have been elected, they went crazy. And many of these appointees were forced to flee into boston. And he decided with of these growing tensions it was time to round up as much of the gunpowder as he could because each town had a certain amount of gun powder and they were in the powerhouses all around the province. He was determined to get the powder out the powerhouse that is now modern somerville so in the Early Morning hours, he said some soldiers in boats at the mystic river and the operation went on without a hitch. They were able to get the powder, to get on to counsel william which is where the fort was where they were stockpiling of this kind of thing and it went off without a hitch accept a rumor was spread. And the rumor spread like wildfire that has the british were there and what was then part of cambridge they fired upon the militiamen and several people were killed. It hadnt happened before but that was the rumor. A spread through the counter of massachusetts and this is early september, 1774. Suddenly the entire region erupted with a call to arms in the hundreds and then thousands of militiamen began to scream in towards cambridge. It began that night and all of the next day cambridge began to fill up with thousands of militiamen that learned this had been a rumor and there was no violence but there were all these people with their weapons in the middle of cambridge and was a very volatile crowd and these were the country people who turned into the rabblerousers. But sam adams wasnt there, john adams wasnt there. They needed someone from the committee of correspondence to show up and try to calm things down. In a samuel adams began to emerge as one of the leaders of the boston revolutionary movement. And he was a young doctor named joseph orman. 33yearsold. He had been an accolade of samuel adams for more than a decade and he gained more and more of a public presence. He was a different kind of guy from sam adams. Sam adams was almost two decades older, had a different approach. Joseph warren there was a charisma about him and i would like to read a passage in my book that describes him as he was because the request went out that he can to cambridge and said he and some other members of the committee went to cambridge to try to quiet things down. They were successful in this but there was a key point at which this young the 43yearold man Joseph Warren stepped up to the forefront of the Patriot Movement and here is a brief description of his background. Where samuel adams was part alladi alana, warden who was close to two decades younger had a magnetism born in roxbury just across from the boston neck. As a boy he was seen wandering the streets of boston selling milk from the family farm. The oldest of the brothers he was recognized as a young and gifted boy and when he was 14 he began studies at harvard. In the fall of that year his father was picking apples from the top of a ladder when he fell and broke his neck his youngest brother had been just 2yearsold at the time of this tragic event and one of the memory is was watching his fathers body being carried away. With financial help of the family friends, he was able to continue at the harbor and serve as a pennant for his brothers particularly for john who recently finished his medical apprentice chip and was now a doctor in salem. At harvard, his talent for pursuing a variety of Extracurricular Activities is evident. Early on he staged several performances of the popular play in his dorm room. The french and indian war was in full swing and he joined the militia companies. The classmate leader told the story how he responded to being locked out of a meeting of fellow students in the upper dormitory room instead of pounding at the door he made his way to the roof, shinnied down the rain spout and climbed in through an open window just as he was making his entrance the spout collapsed in the ground with a spectacular crash and he shrugged and commented that they served their purpose for a boy that lost his father to a fatal flaw it was an illustrative bit of bravado. This was a man that dared to do what should have by all rights terrified him. It was at harvard that he showed an interest in medicine. The great challenge for medical students in the 18th century was finding human cadavers and its likely that he was a member of a club of medical students for which we know his younger brother apprentice remembers who regularly rated the graveyards, jails and houses in search of bodies illegal but all in the name of the higher good this game of capture the corpse was the perfect Training Ground for the future revolutionary. So this was a leader with a difference and he would be successful in cooling tempers and what was known as the power alarm. He would then be instrumental in writing the result which would make their way down to the first Continental Congress to be approved by them pushing that congress and the more radical direction than they probably otherwise would have gone. And then his time continued as a leader in the movement. He would become a member of the congress that the colonists put together to provide some kind of organizational force as a day prepared themselves for potential violence. It would be warren who on the night of april 18th would give paul revere the famous orders to tell the countryside that the british were headed for concord. But he was one of the few, probably the only patriot leaders still in boston he would cross the river the next morning after a meeting of the committee of safety which was operated as the executive branch of the province at this point. He would then join in the the fighting on the battle road as the british who made it to concord and fought their way back towards boston. He was right there in the midst of the fighting and was a very stylish dresser and it was holding up a horizontal curls on the side of his hair and was passed so close to him that mocked of the pan. And this was the sign to everyone that this was a leader that was very willing to put himself on a dangerous path. After lexington concord, a cambridge and roxbury filled, warren would be elected president of the contras and he was the leading writer of the committee of safety so that in effect hes a leader of the legislative body and the executive body. He was overtaxed in terms of what he had to do but his standing was so high people in massachusetts felt that there was no one else who could do it. This was a 33yearold man. By this time his four children and his new fiancee was then forced her and he was managing things in cambridge. During those 60 days he was the only one overseeing the creation of the war of an army. She was named a Major General. And so from the beginning, he had to be in the fighting. He would be at the battle of bunker hill and he would die at the very end of the battle and thus become a hero. Because he died, many of us had never heard the story. Just a word on the bad battle of bunker hill it was a mess. It wasnt supposed to be that way. It was a battle for the wrong hill putative was named for the hill they were supposed to put them out on which was the patriots new the british for planning an attack in the hope to believe that they decided to build the fort to the north of the charlestown peninsula half a mile away from it is called breeds hill where the monument is now but for the reasons that we are on short of even today, william press got and more than a thousand people built their fort not on blabber hill but right in the face of the provision boston. When the general look up the next morning, he felt he had no choice but to attack this threat to the shipping and the boston itself. So the force that was supposed to delay an attack actually provoked the attack. And the battle with untold causing all sorts of mayhem. And would become the bloodiest battle of the revolution of more than 2,000 british regulars were involved and they would suffer casualties of close to 50 water just devastating. This would be a british victory technically. They would take out william general on the ground during the battle would admit it was a victory bought by too many lives. Washington what a riot and was one of the great surprises to me. It was a great relief to find out he wasnt born this statuesque person that stares at us from the dollar bill. This is a young washington who arrived from virginia and was appalled at what he found. A group of dirty provincial soldiers none of whom had were disciplined or interested in following orders. Washington decided that he had no choice but to try to attack as soon as he could. The soldiers were not necessarily the best trained and they didnt have the gun powder he needed. His decisions to attack were luckily for all of us opposed by the council of the war. But he was always pushing and pushing. And he provided a real kind of an electrical force to the army that was in disarray after joseph. And finally with the occupation of Dorchester Heights, which involved one of the Great Stories of new england history of a bookseller, henry knox going out to the fort ticonderoga and returning with the cannons, the some of which would be placed on Dorchester Heights and forced the evacuation of the british. Boston went from being a city that had been occupied to being a city that had to pull itself together. This had been a devastating experience for everyone. And 9,000 Soldiers Left along with about a thousand loyalists never to return and the bostonian is what filter back into the town had been beat up terribly. Many structures had been burned as the british tried to heat themselves in the winter. But by and large, they had survived. And i would like to end mauney remarks by quoting a passage from a sermon that was delivered by the reverend Samuel Cooper on april 7, 1776. His first after the evacuation of the british. Much as we have seen boston in the past few weeks, his had been a community that had seen the worst of times, but they had made it through. So he delivered the sermon. And i would like to read it serves as the epigraph for my book. It is a short one that i think it is to the point. Boston has been like the vision of moses. A bush burning but not consumed. Thank you very much. [applause] if you have any questions i would be happy to try to answer them. You feature a number of characters that are not household names. You talked about Joseph Warren, his fiancee mercy triet it is wonderfully described in the book joyce jr. , the customs of the inspector malcolm. A wonderful cast of characters. How did you settle what was your process of selling those historical characters as opposed to others that you had known or thought of or reject it . This is from dr. Samuel four men whose biography was a huge help to me. Thank you. It is a contribution to all of us. Thank you for the question. It was a story that was full of surprises for me. I kept discovering these connectors. There is this character who appears in a fictional form but in a kind of fog to become thuggish ebal batman and organizes patriots and he describes himself as the chair person of the committee in boston. And my first chapter i described the customs agent and was just a horrifying affair that happened in january, 1774. One of the coldest days of that winter. They would pull the tar on his flesh, feathers on it and pulled the streets to boston often in a cart and on occasion beating him up for hours until finally they dumped him at his house in the north end. He would be in bed recovering for six weeks, but he would live. But he was a brother whos younger brother daniel had died several years before and had been a foremost patriot. There in the family, you kind of see how much of a civil war this was and how divided families. We think of it as patriots verses british. But the bostonian to deeply divided as these issues began to bubble up and it was a true weech hermetic occurrence truly dramatic occurrence. Nathaniel, i still have not read moby. I have lived here for about a year and a half now. I made yorker. They dont need my help. Thanks to dr. Forman i learned of this gentleman joseph morgan. My sisters lived here in boston for 40 years with my family and i visited every historical site in new england, boston several times. Never heard of the name. Dr. Forman convinced me this is a unique human being. And since then ive talked to a number of major bostonian and i am amazed how few of them have heard of Joseph Warren. You didnt send me an advanced copy of, so i just got a lot of it yesterday. I apologize. Your ticktocks about the two charismatic men. One from massachusetts, one from virginia. I am assuming i know the answers to the man from massachusetts, Joseph Warren. Why isnt there a bridge named after Joseph Warren . Reading further in your book, there was a bridge named after. Can you tell me what happened to it . My history of boston past 1776 is very thin so im not going to go into that. But he was the hero of his day. He was someone that was a revered icon of the time and what have been a founding father if he had lived but he didnt. He didnt become a part of a pantheon that we are so aware of today. But the loyalist who didnt appreciate Joseph Warrens efforts probably gave him the greatest praise where years after his death, and this is just as much an attempt to take it to George Washington but he said that if Joseph Warren lived, washington would have been ll the security would have been an obscurity. And it shows how pivotal he was to the events that created the country and the city. You are right. He is largely unappreciated. We renamed the bridge the robert f. Kennedy bridge. There is a bridge here in boston that i think should be named we will talk to our Congress People to this and i have one more question. You have to cut to the chase boat. Do you know where that famous statement was made do not fire until you see the whites of their . We have all heard that. It may never have been set at the battle of bunker hill. There is no documented so and so said to me dont fire. The one reference that i saw there was documented with someone saying they are the splash guards on the british. It doesnt quite have the same ring. But it was a phrase that had been used before the battle and after. So it very easily could. Its interesting when you start thinking about firing until you see the rights of your eyes and looking at people its very close. What is interesting and what my account is about is that was the basic tactic the patriots were using. So those provincial soldiers knew they had to make every shot count. They had to a menlo and they listen to those orders without absolutely devastating results. I first of all wanted to say that i enjoyed your book in the heart of the sea. Secondly im gerry familiar with josette or rent and i am a defender of mercy who did eventually marry. My question is about the description of the 9,000 troops in boston, british troops in boston. And im wondering before a lot of people left with the population was. In other words were there more than 9,000 boston residents who were surrounded or less than the 9,000 that were surrounded by the british troops . What happened was the city got turned inside out and so the army that approached 9,000. And then there were about 3,000 shall we call them civilians in the city had the time. A lot of them were loyalist. Some of them people there were just there were caught in the middle of it. And so, you have the city that was a population pretty close to what it had originally been that it was largely soldiers. So they had taken up residence in houses and turned the Old South Meeting House and to a Riding School ripping out the pews and spreading the newer, just the altar met in dignity. The green dragon tavern in the patriot nurse senator was turned into a hospital. So the city was be up beat up. This was a trauma for everyone involved. I would think so. Thank you. Thanks. Yes . When you have 9,000 british troops and this is how i understand they were fed by the ships coming from nova scotia why do they stay in boston . I know they could have gone up the north shore, they could have gone down the south shore and they could have gone about charleston. Why do they stay in place . That is a very good question and its one that the british immediately asked after bunker hill. They said what are we doing here . Boston is not a strategically placed city when it comes to carrying on what is obviously the war. So very quickly after bunker hill, they made the suggestion we should reform and relaunch an invasion of america to the south. Perhaps new york and that is exactly where they would go that summer. The parliament, the British Ministry agreed with them and so by the end of that summer, the decision had been made that they were going to evacuate boston and that is one of the great ironies is they had decided to leave. There was no need to attack but of course the americans didnt know this. In the prior to all of this, the british had made an attempt to sort of show there might on the naval base and have burned the town which is now portland maine. And it had instead of striking fear into the heart of the new englanders, it angered them to such a point that it made it clear that this isnt helping at all to it and what they were finding is that what happens to any empire is conducting a war in which they have civilians. Its hard to feel good about that kind of war and so that is what they found themselves in the middle of and it wasnt a situation that any of the british soldiers enjoyed. In fact it was a horrible duty and would become the graveyard of many officers careers. I have a question about the primary sources that you use. You bring so much life to the stories and its not like they are new sources. This happened a long time ago. When you go to the society what kind of documents and how do you find so much vitality and them . For me it is all in the details. It is finding those traits, corrector sticks, things that sort of bring a person to life or a situation to life. You have to go to the primary sources to find them and in the case of this, the sources are extraordinarily rich. The papers of the family are at the massachusetts historical society. And warren still exists what time, but the prescription was coming and it runs right up to april of 1975. It is an extraordinary document. That is the beginning. Theres all sorts of primary source material. The diaries are wonderful when it comes to bringing the past to life. You have not only were these people witnesses, but you have their voices coming through. Those can be of great help. The other interesting source which is not as reliable are the newspapers. You find the newspapers all had a political ax to grind but combining the newspapers from both sides its interesting you can often get sides of a story that were not revealed from, you know, other sources and that is the great challenge trying to get a balanced account as possible. Question over here. Thank you. I want to address the gentleman from new york, the question about the memorial. If im not mistaken there were several streets. Theres one in britain and roxbury and theres also anyone in the country whose name is warren, the way that people might be named jefferson and so forth. And i believe that anyone named wayne is named after the revolutionary war mike general from the west. I could be wrong on this. And the building at the General Hospital is named after both Joseph Warren and the entire line of doctors from the family. Would you want to comment on that . And i correct in saying his name is Warren Burger of the Supreme Court and they have that name as their first name coming from Joseph Warren . I cant vouch for that certainly that that might actually be the case. Its almost like archaeology in terms that he was such a popular name in the early century that got passed on and its a part of peoples genealogy. And where that came from is probably an individual case. But the point you made is his younger brother, john, found mgh to read this was an extraordinarily capable family. And it would spawn generations of leading doctors. And so, this was a person with talent that went way beyond any one thing. If anything he was a victim of his talent. He was doing everything in the final 60 days of his life as he ran from one crisis to another. All of my books in one way or another art about leadership and its interesting to see washington. A different personality and a different kind of leader, commented the leadership vacuum left and do things firmly and in a way that sort of settle things down because the times have changed. Its gone from this growing revolution into a stalemate that will ultimately turn into an eight year war and that takes a different kind of skill set and temperament. And so, one of the great things is if he had survived how helpful he would have been because washington had trouble when it came to the recruitment at the end of the year. He lost most of his army. The new englanders were not used to taking orders and when they were done they were going to go home and she didnt really have an effective gobetween between him and the soldiers. More than would have been her perfect at that in terms of appealing to the better nature. Such is the of what if that are not a part of history. Thank you very much. [applause] representative tom cole what is on your Summer Reading list . I am reading a wonderful book of the hopkins touch putting it about halfway through that now which is on his legendary aid for fdr and a cornell graduate. We probably dont have the same politics but its a compelling life i havent had a chance to read the book act of converse with the reviews have been pretty compelling. Thats right to be an interesting case study. When you are reading of a camel the characters barney frank and senator dodd, and you know some of the legislatures it is interesting to get that perspective and some of the staff. And then there is a book that i just ordered on james byrnes who was a legendary South Carolina politics who put this on their radar and said you are going to love this book. And he very nearly was Vice President instead of truman in 44 and continued to play an extraordinary role in politics and became one of the architects of nixons success in 78 and 72 and its interesting enough just popped up working on the 1940. The books im reading on the 1940 nomination of fdr in the first term, which is pretty neat political work. So, i like to read about the process. And i like to study history. And i ought to read less policy and more history but i seem to learn more in history. Let us know what you are reading this summer tweet us, or send an email at book tv at cspan. Org. Sarah was a helpmate to him throughout his career to get when he was writing speeches he would get her opinion. She would read the newspapers and underlined passages that she felt were important for him to read. She was a regular in the galleries and congress and typically the congress what enact a memorial to the outgoing speaker of the house thanking him for his service. When he Left Congress to run for the governor of tennessee the contras was widely divided they refuse to do that but its interesting that in the newspapers in number of politicians wrote poems in honor of her by the time she left and one of them was an out of state Supreme Court justice who wrote a lengthy poem on the washington society. In her book boulevard former editorinchief marie arana spoke of politics and prose bookstore in washington, d. C. For an hour. So many friends in the audience im just going to pretend that im sitting by my fireplace at home with john and talking a little bit about this book. It was such a pleasure to work on and people find it hard to believe because it isnt easy writing a biography of a very famous leader on which everybody has an opinion on whom so much has been written already. Its true there are 2,683 books in the library of congress. I would say 90 of those are in spanish. So i am lucky there. But this is an extraordinary life, and a life that was lived in the largest since. The canvas is huge and stretches through much of south america. And a life lived large in other ways as well. Bolivar was very dramatic and commanding personality kid and he was called and iron ass by his soldiers because he wrote 70,000 miles to liberate the country is that he liberated to the it is an extraordinary and physical feet if nothing else. But he also was a man of the enlightenment and someone who had been inspired at the youngest age by reading john locke and came out of that experience actually probably about 20, 21 with a very passionate sense of his country, the colonial yoke that it suffered or at least he felt it suffered under. He was all for liberty and freedom and greatly admired the United States and greatly admired in many respects napoleon although there were aspects of much of the entire that he didnt admire. It was also of flesh and blood. He was a great womanizer and had 35 mistresses. 37i guess mistresses that we can count. After his wife was greatly beloved to him died, he was 19yearsold when she died and he went on to pledge that he would never marry again but that didnt mean he wasnt going to have a good time, and he did. He was a great dancer, loved music, said that he did his best thinking on the dance floor, and whereas others needed to be away from the hubbub of life in order to get things fall through he felt that a ballroom with lots of pretty women and dancing was the Perfect Place to think through the knots that he encountered and he would go back in the middle of the dance hall sort of happy and elated and sweating into the middle of it go back to the back room and dictate three letters at the time to three different secretaries and then go back to the ballroom again and think some more on his feet, literally. I am often asked why did you choose to write about bolivar and i have to say in my whole career as a writer i have an edit her career for a long time but as a writer my whole career by but say has been to try to explain what america and Latin Americans to north americans and English Speakers to the its not an easy task because there are great differences and great divides of personality and heart between north americans and south americans. But every single book that i have written has been another brick i always say in the edifice of trying to explain who we are and how different we may think from north americans to the you may say as a by cultural person i see many cases of whom i know out there who or why cultural. You also know that you are thinking with two heads and hearts in your living between the cultures and i want to get a sense of the other side which is so different and the history is so different to the north american english readers. And brad is right that ive always been captivated as a child by the battle. I wasnt always a wellbehaved child. And i was very often dragged by my collar to fit in sit in my grandparents living room which was dark and sort of filled with frightening porcelains and things like that and musty books and i was made to sit there in that sort of dark chamber to contemplate my badness and i remember it being on the harvest will although my grandmother now 83 bless her heart tells me it was part of the harvest will but it was a big cushion share. Im not sure about the memory but it felt like a hard chair. I was made to look at the portraits that surrounded me. And one portrait to my right was im sorry, the portrait to my left was my great, great, great grandfather and he had fought the battle and he was a spanish brigadiergeneral and he was the first spaniard to charge and the first spaniard to fall and he was killed with a sword to his heart right away at the beginning of the battle he was at the left and on the right was a portrait was a beautiful young woman who was the daughter but she had never met him. She was born a few weeks after the sword pierced his heart. By the time he exactly 200 years ago in 1813 by that time began his Admiral Campaign in which he was not known at all, he was beginning to be known in south america, but spidey end of it, by the end of 1813 he was known really around the world when they agonized over whether that threat was founded on principles of liberty and freedom should support the struggle for independence. In london veterans of englands war against napoleon, mostly irish, not tough fight for boliver. In italy the poet lord byron known named his post after bolivar, but there would be five more years of bloodshed before spain was thrust from latin american shores 14. Im sorry. Forty more years. Im reading in the middle of it. Fourteen years of war and great bloodshed before spain must rest from latin american shores. At the end of this savage and chastening more one man would be credited for singlehandedly conceding, organizing, and leading the liberation of six nations, population oneandahalf times the size of north america, land mass the size of modern europe, vons of which he fought, vast areas of contract wilderness, splintered loyalties of many races would have proved daunting for the ablest of generals with a strong army in his command, but bolivar had never been a soldier. He had no formal military training, yet with the more than will and a genius for being a leader he freed much of spanish america and laid out his dream for a unified continent. Despite all of this he was a highly imperfect man. He could be impulsive, headstrong, filled with contradictions. He spoke eloquently about justice, but he was not always able to meted out in the chaos of revolution. His romantic life had a way of spilling into the public realm. He had trouble accepting criticism and had no patients for disagreements. He was single handedly he sees me, he was singularly incapable of losing a game of cards. It is hardly surprising that over the years that americans have learned to accept human imperfections in their leaders. Bolivar taught them how. Now, as bolivar grew he was compared to George Washington. Called the George Washington and south america, and there were good reasons why. Both of them came from wealthy and influential families, ardent defenders of freedom, i wrote in rule double heroics in the war, but apprehensive about marshaling piece. Both resisted efforts to make them kings. Both claimed to want to return to private lives but were dragged into the public sphere of shaping government, and both were excused, as we all know, do ambition. And there really the similarities between George Washington and bolivar and. The military action at bolivar lasted twice as long as washington. The territory covered was seven times as large and spanned an astonishing geographic diversity from crocodileinfested jungles to the snowcapped mountains of the andes. Moreover, unlike washingtons war, the war of bolivar could not have been won without the aid of black and indian troops. His success in rallying all of the races to the patriot cause became the turning point in a war for independence. It is fair to say that he thought both the revolution and the civil war. But, perhaps, what really distinguishes both men, both bolivar and washington can be seen most of all in their rich and works. Washington is words were measured, auguste, dignified, the product of a cautious and delivered mind. His speeches and correspondence on the other hand remind me much more of thomas jefferson, fiery and passionate and elegance and beautifully represented some of the greatest writing in latin america, although much was produced in haste on the battlefield and on the run, the prose is at once lyrical and stately, clever, but historically grounded, electric, but yet deeply wise. It is now exaggeration to say that bolivar revolution changed the Spanish Language for his words marked the dawn of a new literary h, the old, dusty castilian of his time with its ornate flourishes and is remarkable voice and then became another language entirely, urgent, vibrant, and young. So, you see, this was a man who represented it for me, and if i wanted to build this edifice of explanation of who that americans are, bolivar was relieved because he represented the history that really defines the continent of south america. The revelation that he thought was so different, so in such contrast to the revolution that was fought here. He had to employ when he started, and it was all white mans war essentially. He came from probably the richest family in the venezuela and one of the richest families in all of latin america. A very, very wealthy man. His parents have or his family have been in venezuela for at that. 200 years, and for more. And they had accumulated wealth of cocoa plantations, indigo plantations, copper mines. They own 12 properties in caracas alone. It was a tremendously rich county, and it began as a kind of an aristocratic discontented with the colonial power that the spanish held in south america, and people dont really realize this. Spain was very, very assertive in making sure that the colonies had no contact with each other. They were like spokes of the wheel. If you could not travel from from viceregal one area of viceregal, let america, to another. You could not do commerce. You were presented as a colony of spain from doing any manufacturer and all. You were prevented from owning a mine. You were prevented from any kind of commerce whatsoever. It was punishable by execution. So, you see, the whole business, you can imagine, putting together a revolution in a place that is so isolated by its former colonial power is a very difficult thing. This is what bolivar came up against. It was not automatic that countries will command to liberate them, even though they wanted to be liberated. It was not automatic that the races would all play a part in it. In fact, the races kept shifting in the beginning. The blacks on him so much of the revolution spend it or aligning themselves with spain because they knew what that meant. They did not know what the revolution would bring. That feeling that they already knew the evil that existed in the colonial system, they could deal with it, but they did not know what was coming with the white aristocrats of latin america. So there were very hesitant. It was not until bolivar who had been exiled for the second time or went into exile for the second time because the revolution kept failing the republic, each republic that was set up first by one who himself was a tremendously romantic story fell apart. A second republic fell apart, and he found and self in haiti will come to buy alexander. If you know that history, what happened was they had had a very bloody revolution in which all the lights were either send running or killed, slaughtered. On mass. In alexander had to say, you will never win this thing. You are going back now for the third republic. I will help you, give you ships to introduce you to all of these english commercial establishments and men who can help you. But you must close to the promise me one thing. That is, your next time out this was already 1815, your next time out the moment you hit the shore in venezuela from haiti you must liberate the slaves, and slavery. In bolivar and thought about this for a long time because, in fact, with probably a greater moral instinct than the american founders of jefferson our washington, he could not imagine that there could be that you could fight for liberty, that you could fight for freedom with slaves in the country. He immediately understood and had already figured that out. He needed he was going to have to reach out and get the indigenous and the at that. 300 years into the colonial history. There was a Huge Population along with the blacks and indians to my great slave trade, obviously, from the atlantic slave trade, and he knew he would have to engage those many races in order to win their revolution and to really, really get it going. It was not easy. You can imagine. His there were lots of suspicions. There were lots of come at the time, every general wanted his own country really. The systems were very difficult to fight for bolivar, but there was appointed twitch and it was a very daring point, and i will tell you about an imminent, at which the whole tide of history changed. And that was that he engaged, managed to engage in enough of the people who lived in caracas in out in the planes to wear their horsemen who were able at least to give him the impetus with the courage to think differently about how the revolution should be fought. He had the very daring thought, in the middle of 1819 for the already much blood had been spilled. And the revelation was so bloody that half of the population of venezuela had been killed in the process. Some towns have been completely wiped off the map. He had the thought, well, maybe i will cease to worry about venezuela and hit the spaniards in their heart by crossing the andes and killing tens of new granada which is down columbia. It was a ridiculous thought. It was rainy season. They were on the planes. He was looking at the end these. The planes other parched in the summertime and absolutely flooded in the rainy season. Whole rivers become seized. The planes become lakes, great lakes. And no one would have suspected that anybody would be so foolish as to take an army with the cattle and the women in the soldiers through this flooded plane and then over the snowcapped mountains of the andes. Everyone knows you are taking an army over peaks that their 18,000 feet high. It was a revolutionary thought. And nobody would suspect that he would attempt it. Why would you go to another country when you have not even one liberation from around . He kept his secret. The soldiers did not know where there were going. They knew that they were waiting through water. Sometimes having to carry women on their back. Expiring one after the other. He got to the bottom of the range, the divides, the venezuelan part for the new granada in part. He finally explained what you want to do. The soldiers were for it. He took a battalion, several, army of 2000, 5,000 people with women. And paddle and horses and what not. And with his Printing Press because he carried it everywhere he went to me really did feel that words were the greatest weapon. And he pulled it off and went through the highest point where the spanish have no garrisons for miles. Had he went over and came down the inside in tatters. So many had died. At third of the British Expeditionary force died in the process. All of the cattle were gone. Many of the horses did not make it. But the number of people who came down the other side of the mountain were terrified of the spaniards. It was enough to actually send the viceroy sitting in bogota running. He ran. He put on at grimy hand and led to million pesos on his desk and ran for cover. They were detonating, you can imagine, detonating all of the ammunition so that he would not get at it, so that would not it added. You go into the capitol, to bogota, all by himself. There are wonderful descriptions of that ride which is the way that i sent the book. It is a marvelous story. It is full of adventure, full of romance. I could talk about his mistress, his favorite mistress about whom much is known but not enough is written. She was a great beauty, fierce had, as we say in spanish. [speaking in spanish] which is she said whenever she wanted to say. Very direct, had opinions, spoke up, dressed like a man, she was like nothing. Sullen daughter, despised her, but she was a person who saved him three different times in his life from assassination. The stories are dramatic, absolutely hard to believe that Something Like this could happen in the palace and he sends a messenger to bring her because he is so sick. Every bond around in his as well. The most unguarded moment one could experience. She says im too sick. He sends another messenger. No, you have to come. He is terrible. She puts on her galoshes and goes through the rain, goes to the palace, and he is sitting in the top. He is so low. She comes in and raise them and eventually gets up goes to bed, falls in to a great sleep. She does as well. She awakes for the barking of dogs. A whole organized the assassination of 150 people who have converged to kill bolivar. At this point he is quite famous, powerful. Some of his generals and certainly his vicepresident are very suspicious of his power. He says, what do we do . She said, he does a of a pair of boots boots have gone out for cleaning. He has a sword and pass pistol. He says to my will just go open the door because someone is begging of the door at the point. No, no. Get dressed. He gets dressed. She says put on my galoshes and jump through the window. She puts on his mistresses galoshes, jumps to the window. That would be a great kid away. As it happens, there are no bars of sight. So he is able to jump. It goes to the door, flings it open. There she is. A general of the other side actually several soldiers and the a side describe per as this beautiful sort of the apparition with the sword in hand and hand on hip. Of course the story goes on from there. We will let you read it for yourself. It is quite amazing, at every level. But so you can see my excitement as someone thinking, how do you explain the latin american personality, the latin american character to a latin american reader . You explain it by showing how different the colonial system was, how much history and in this case the six republics that emerged after the revolution command you describe it by this sort of insane kind of the palace life that he left and have it changed from country to country as he progressed liberating panama on the way down to peru which was the hardest of all, the hardest nuts to crack. Have you will enjoy reading it. I want to your questions. This is i hope you will have many questions for me because this is always for me my favorite part. Thank you. [applause] yes. That was a great speech. Thank you very much. I cannot give a buy the book number one because i read five or six fabulous reviews of it. And did not realize you had an inhouse review. I read them every weekend. I cannot wait to look at the book. I have also lived half my life in south america. A lot about bolivar, but i have learned just from listening to you a number of things, including the wonderful stint in colombia and the battle. We hear a lot to commend it irritates me as someone who loves this to hear about the late departed executive to the president of venezuela who used this human bolivar as a tool to badly govern a wonderful people and a wonderful country. To what extent he lived a long time in venezuela, to what extent was hugo chavez distorting history and just doing their usual grab that he did, work is there a serious historical responsible basis for using bolivar as part of the venezuelan package . Thank you for that question. A very good question. There is very little. And think about this in the epilogue. A very little to compare. Except for the thing that everybody since bolivar died, and he died as absolutely destitute. He the data very rich man. But bolivar it is amazing to see people on the right use them. People on the left use in for hugo chavez who, i think, bolivar would have been horrified to see how his name is been used in the republic of venezuela. It has been used many times before. Constantly being brought up by leaders drought led america to argue a different points which is why people live very, very confused the just to bolivar was and just what he began. What hugo chavez and bolivar have in common is this, a bolivar dream of unifying all of latin america. He wanted a unified American Affairs because it felt to be stronger and more influential to my greater, shall we say, counterpoint to the United States, which was growing very strong. Hugo chavez as well had a dream, and he has, you know, the bulgarian nation, ecuador, and, as you know, bolivia and cuba. They all call themselves nations that have very little to do with actual. Thank you for the question. Hi. A twopart question and essay. Could you you married several other, what you would consider to be conceptions about bolivar, bolivar on the part of north americans, how we misperceive his legacy and how we misperceive him. Secondly, any truth to this story have heard about the lockout with George Washingtons hair . Yes. George washington parke hostess, a grandson probably the grandnephew really of washington wanted to send a medallion with a clipping of George Washingtons hair inside to bolivar because see felt that George Washington himself would have wanted to be associated with the name of bolivar, and there was lafayette actually said, of all the people, of all the people in the world that George Washington most admired, it was bolivar. And he said that himself. And so the medallion was sent down. It was the absolute pinnacle of achievement. He admired washington. He admired jefferson. The admired the north american founders, although he knew that his task was very different and that he could not emulate them. He treasured this for all time and actually did still in venezuela. Very much on display. If you go down to caracas, you can see it. The question about biculturalism , the question is misconceptions. You know, bolivar was his whole life was live with people having misconceptions about him. When he was fighting for the liberation of peru, he was making his way back to his homeland. There were rumors you wanted to make a self king. Rumors before by enemies, france, everybody. It was a way of tarnishing his name. He was the furthest thing from wanting to be king. When he meant san martin, when bolivar met the other with the raiders coming from the south, the one thing that really, really turned bolivar against him was the fact that he really believed that south america should have a king. He had actually sent people up to your to find the king to come and rule. And bolivar said, im sorry. We have sacrificed a lot of live set aside to buy precisely to get rid of him. There are misconceptions there as well used against them even by south americans. Im not surprised there were misconceptions about him. Thank you for your question. Hi. Like yourself, i grew up here. I am from guatemala. Have to confess that i know very little about bolivar and am looking forward to reading. As a wealthy the son of a wealthy family, was he educated in spain . Or was the yes . It is a great story. A have to believe that if he was educated abroad coming from a wealthy family he must have at some point find something about history. Of course traversing the andes is similar to hannibals going over the alps to send ground. But that was for two years. Right. Thank you. The thing that is amazing about his education, and area dead man. The could speak, you know, language. He read cicero in latin. He was educated because when he went to spain is the man he would send over the age of 16. Why . Because his mothers family, he was a complete orphan. Mother was dead to my father was dead. Tebow sent over by his family to see if he could persuade spain to actually give him a barren and see or some noble position. And he ended that in under the tutelage of wonderful venezuelan who had lived in spain for a long time. The marquee of studies who prod demand. He had never had a son. He brought a man, taught him everything, had tutors demand. And he ended a really astonished by his own interest in history and literature and music. Eblas, everything from the personal library and also from simply the people who came in. He was really, as i say, a person you change the latinamerican language because he had listened to to the european philosophers at the time. He had read briefly. He appreciated it fix him. He was a uniquely educated man. I will revise that is something of a filibuster. Sen martine and offered to surf hundred and certainly was a hughes the talented military commander. His question, more successful. He also crossed the andes, yes, yet something very similar to bolivar also was that he, too , wanted to unite america. What happened in the process was san martin was very sick. By the time he reached peru he was already very much of an opium addict. He had a terrible arthritis. Soldiers in see was 12, terrible arthritis. Carried over the andes. They actually sat down and met for the first time. San martin was trying to say, come help me with peru. Bolivar was not convinced that he wanted to help this man. The meeting was very awkward. It is famous. No one was in the room to record it, but as years went on there is enough to was written about it by both sides have been held pretty much what went on. But san martin wanted bolivar to come. He even said, i will surrender you. Knew that that was exactly what he did not want big is the person who serves on the you will have a greater prestige than the person who was actually ruling. He said, no, thats impossible. When san martin well, bolivar actually read that in a letter. San martin wanted to serve under me and i knew that that would be a mistake because you would have the moral advantage of having surrendered himself to me. So bolivar refused. He said no send you a few battalions, but san martin at that point left knowing that in order for prove to be free he would have to make himself scarce, which is exactly what he did. He left in the middle of the night, took about, waited a little while the cfe would be called back and then eventually went down to argentina and went into exile. It is one of those great moments in history when you have to live graders sitting in the same room and really buying vying for authority. Thank you. What happened to slavery . Immediately. Immediately. Although a lot of it was immediate in word and not in actual act, it was high for some people. You have to imagine the revolution. They have been told that if they joined the army they will gain their freedom immediately. It is so interesting to me that so few that americans dont realize that it was really the pike forces in the Indian Forces that onehour revelations down there. Then i have had great poets say, how can you speak such rubbish . The white aristocrats who were leading. No. Iblis italian after battalion who actually won the freedom against spain. Can i ask, was there any chance of a united south america . She tried in 1926. He held what has been called a precursor to the oas. He tried to call a conference of all these republics. He had written a whole vision for this greater america. People did not come. The stalled. People die on the way. There were too many animosities. At first did not want to invite the United States. Vice president. There was a kind of it became come as you said, that is when we had this revolution and plant the seed because he could not remove what he really wanted to move which was the unification of all of that and america. Thank you. Very brief. I just would like to have a footnote to your answer about the education of bolivar by including absolutely, one of his early tutors. Yes. And he was tutored by a number of people in venezuela. One of the great literary figures of america, and he happened to be not too much older. He was brought in as a tutor. Thank you. Thank you for that. You mentioned one gentleman, always interesting. Would you mind, just talk a little bit about the person, who he was and what influence you have. And then if i could issue a little, second question, but it might give you an idea, this ladys contrast, is there any correspondence between her and madame blanche who also was irish. In the broader framework of which you obviously rise and operate, operation, the emergence of the females in 19th century latin america as a political leader or as an influence. Thank you. First, you know, win the napoleonic wars were drawing to a close, really you had a militarized europe, a lot of soldiers who came back saying then deny london had no means of income. It was these people who were recruited. Some of them came, there were the equipment was really very loose. It was done by someone who did not know much about soldiering. The venezuelan diplomat who was recruiting like mad. And so people would come and say, oh, yes, i was a colonel, Lieutenant Colonel and he was just described to. They would come over and they were outfitted in these majestic uniforms. Touted all over london. They were given big champagne good buys. And off they would come to this absolutely wild revolution where the soldiers were barefoot and were fighting with spears. They were fighting with sticks. And they were ludicrous, parading around in these fancy, you know, european and they could barely lumber along with all of the heavy equipment checks. Very young. And it he was identified variously and made a general very quickly. And he was really not only one of his best generals, but one of his closest friends and one whom he could confide in. Bolivar really liked having i dont know where it came from or explain it, but he liked having english and irish assistance and generals around him. His tight force of the people who were his secretary and his assistants were almost entirely in english and irish. He liked that. He had spent time in london, and he appreciated, i think, their experience in europe and the napoleonic wars and elevated them. Certainly rewarded by collecting all of his letters. If you go, 302 volume letters and correspondence and speeches, it was daniel who did all, collected it all, annotated it all. It was quite a gift back to bolivar anybody else . Exiled. What i was doing. General obstreperous behavior. I was a pretty cheeky kid. And i fancied myself, you know, a kumble tomboy. Of would say things they should not have. And, you know, they made me the soda of prim little bombing uc appear today. One more question about the irish, many. One about something you talked about. Could you comment on what was going on in chile and the irishman and his role in the planned american revolution. Of course, the illegitimate son of the viceroy, one of the san martins closest collaborators. And the story is fantastic. Someone should write that. The reagans corresponded. It did not really have too much in common, but they knew that heal people, like san martin and awakens, that part of the continent. And it was very respected, very, very much. The question, if i may, the nine states had a number of agents and let america while this was going on. Correspondence between those agents. Could you comment on the extent to which that correspondence contributed to misconceptions on the part of not american . Absolutely. In the middle of a very rough campaign. He was not only if i may say, he was suffering from him rights , carbuncles, any number of things when he was doing the 75,000 75,000 miles on horseback paraded to this moment of when he is trying to change the tremendous force, i mean, a huge Expeditionary Force under the spaniards who were fighting, in comes this american agent. End at one of home was famously was a reporter, he came down. Freelancing information back to the president and his cabinet. He was not treated well. You can imagine. Somebody coming, i scribbling pen the middle of a revolution. He was not treated very well. The report said that he sent back to washington were skating, absolutely scathing. The little upstart, the man with napoleonic admissions. You could not say anything worse to american than a man with napoleonic conditions. And so it was really true this kind of reporting back that he began to have a very negative reputation. Also remember that slavery was the biggest commerce of foot. The attacking about 1815 and ford. Slavery was one of the as gordon wood describes this very well, it was our gnp appeared. Slavery was huge commerce. It was the worst thing that washington could imagine, on talk about washington, the governing city, the capitol could imagine was actually supporting anybody here use, had liberated slaves and was using them to find a revolution. This was very the reputation began to get worse and worse in the United States because every sort of slander i think was used against bolivar including the fact a lot of people were dying in this revolution. A very bloody revolution. Thank you. [applause] we would like to hear from you. Tweet us your feedback. Twitter. Com booktv. We have more coverage of nonfiction books and the book industry every weekend on book tv. Including this saturday and 7 00 p. M. Eastern, former mtv vj. I think there were incredibly powerful because they realize that they could tap into a generation of future voters end of the this is a time when your in your genes in late teens and early twenties, most passionate about things in your life and realize a few contend that passion to politics and would be a really incredible force. Regardless if i agreed with disagreed with the politics of the people who, i like the fact that they want to engage people. Unlike the fact that they want to express and learn about their own political meetings and feelings. And then when i step in there anybody in makes it happen there, but i always thought that was for the benefit of all. When you challenge one another, what you believe in value, it will make you a better person for it. Suspected book tv at this years freedom fest. Along with our schedule, you can also see our programs anytime. Get the latest updates throughout the week. Follow us on facebook and twitter. Director of civil war era studies discusses the battle of gettysburg. Resulting in a dead the 50,000 soldiers. This is just over an hour. [applause] thank you. Thanks to all of the members of the atlanta is three center and to the trustees of livingston lecture funding this possible and making it possible for me to come and visit here in atlanta, this beautiful jewel of the city. What a pleasure it is to be here, especially at the Atlanta History Center. Devoted to that is that the of the history of this city, state of georgia, and the United States. It is great to be back again. Up wonder if we could have the lights down a bit because we have some pictures to see. Looking back over 20 years, Alexander Stewart read, declared that the battle of gettysburg was and is now throughout the world known to be the waterloo of the rebellion. Well, certainly, alex red did not have the right to speak with authority but gettysburg. He was 26 when the civil war bulky broke out. Even though this grandson, only six years out of west point, he rocketed up the ladder of promotion to Brigadier General just one week before the union and confederate armies collided in their brutal 3day hammering at gettysburg. And it fell to wed in particular to command the Union Brigade which had been at this spearpoint of the battles climax, the great charge made by the rebels a vicious. He would survive gettysburg and a nearly fatal wound to the head a year after and the eventually go on to become the president of the city college of new york. In his memory the festering in the tree would always be gettysburg. This three day contest was a constant recurrence of scenes in self sacrifice and especially on the part of all ingates on the third and last day eight. For those of us 150 years later it might be possible to wonder if alexander was suffering from a touch of memory myopia, inflating the risk all experiences of his use, under the pressures of peacetime middleage. The name of gettysburg is still powerful enough to register the recognition of even the most reluctant critical as a big box event in american history. But really, does it deserve to stand beside modern . Except, of course, that it does. Called gettysburg, if you like. The high watermark of the confederacy or the beginning of the end, but it really wise the last solid chance to break away seven states had of winning their war and independents. The last ten months, nearly everything seemed to go the way of the confederacy. Abcaeleven Southern States in the American Union wrote a constitution. They elected a president , jefferson davis. And their hastily assembled army defended and equally hastily assembled United States army apple right in virginia. But in the early spring of 1862 the current began to soar. Union armies and the union navy reconquered all but a few structures of the Mississippi River valley and the reoccupied western tennessee. In the east ready lee led his ragtag confederate forces, the army of Northern Virginia to one victory after another of their opposite number. But the victories were all one on virginia soil. And in feeble, the virginia economy even as they defend it. He knew better than any southerner that the confederacys resources or to limited to keep fending off the confederacys enemies in definitely. Only by carrying the war into the union states and only by leveraging of war weariness public into peace negotiations can the confederacy hope to win. But this was by no means a far fetched up. In the fall of 1862 dissension over president Abraham Lincolns emancipation proclamation had cost unhappy voters in new york and new jersey to install democratic governors theyre come a new round of antiwar Democratic Candidates to were due to run in the fall of 1863 governors elections in ohio and pennsylvania. If those states also turned against the war they could force of Abraham Lincoln either to begin peace talks or to resign. So please army, some 85,000 strong struck north toward in the first week of june crossing the Potomac River and sweeping in a long arc up the Cumberland Valley fair in tell the advanced guard was perched on the susquehanna river overlooking the Pennsylvania State capitol of harrisburg. Italys real goal, however, was not harrisburg. What lee really helped was to lower the army of the potomac northwards after him. As soon as the yankees had strung themselves out on the roads beyond their abilities to help each other, to turn and smashed the smuggling of the pieces of the union army piece by piece and even if all he did was to leave the union army of the potomac on im mary chase, he could simply let the politics of disarmament take their encores thereafter. It clearly worked. The morale of the army was never more favorable for an offensive or defensive operation wrote one virginian. A victory will inevitably attend our arms in any collision with the enemy. It true to his expectation, the 95,000 men of the army of the potomac painting of on certain set off after a. M. As soon as he was satisfied that they had frantically marsh themselves into disarray, he ordered a concentration of his own army at gettysburg ready to pounce on the first parts of the army of the potomac which obligingly wandered within his reach. But the lead elements of the army of the potomac got to gettysburg first. And when his own advanced units arrived on july 1st they found union troops holding on to the ground for dear life. True, there were not many of them. Only three, but the army of the potomac seventh infantry corps. And on july 1st his army was able to clear them out of the town of gettysburg. At the end of the day the rebels indeed punched holes in the union defenses. But they could not hold them. Amazed at the failure of his gambit and appalled at the cost in lives lee ordered a retreat back across the potomac. Just on those terms alone gettysburg was an unmistakable sign of confederate disaster. The campaign was a failure, and the worst failure that the south has ever made, wrote one confederate survivor. Now i said something else. [laughter] now, we have a technical person who is now at this moment coming to my rescue. [laughter] i am hoping that cspan will edit this part out. [laughter] well, i saw him gallivanting around and maybe he will come out the other door. [laughter] or he will come in behind me. Ecm . [laughter] [inaudible conversations] that wasnt the question i wanted to hear him ask. [laughter] well, i will go on and then we will let the pictures catch up. Robert lee would never again regain than military initiative in the war, although fighting would go on for another 21 months in the confederate were confined to the sort of defensive warfare that they could least afford. After gettysburg, the sun never shone for them again. But there were other costs imposed beyond defeat and discouragement and disheartening. The army of Northern Virginias purported 2592 people killed. 12,700 wounded in 4150 captured or missing after gettysburg. 20,451 casualties in all. Based on the data that we have collected by the army of Northern Virginias chief medical officer lafayette guild. I see that alexander to and came back and that is encouraging. But the mouse that i was going to click has not. [laughter] [laughter] [applause] its a the powerful little thing, isnt it . [laughter] well, theres our numbers. They look even worse in cold print. Given the inadequacy of military recordkeeping, there were no grave registrations and these losses suffered by virginia may have been even higher than these official things. But even beyond the simple numeric shock of the casualty list, they suffered a body blow to its command infrastructure from which it never adequately recovered. This will give you some idea of the damage done to change the command and the army of Northern Virginia of leaves 52 generals at gettysburg and a third of them became casualties of some sort. In the 18th virginia, 29 of the regiments 31 officers were killed or wounded and the kernel and Lieutenant Colonel and major were all wounded and three Company Captains killed and two captured. John Goods Division lost the kernels of the state of georgia and we saw the South Carolina rejigged killed. They lost a brigade commander, isaac avery, who is mortally wounded in a farmhouse that still stands in the battle her, along with the kernels and 38 of georgia. Robert rhodes sought three colonels killed and seven wounded and two of them were captured and they had the worst hit to the senior officers, four of the five kernels in the alabama brigade were wounded alongside fuel in the georgia brigade. The worst of all was everyone of the kernels and changes brigade was killed or wounded or captured as were all of those in joe davis of mississippi and North Carolina brigade. As individuals, all of these officer casualties could be replaced but then months and years of experience and familiarity in networking and confidence could not. If we want to measure gettysburg purely by the numbers, and the battle and pose imposed even higher costs on the union army. They commanded the army at gaithersburg and decided that 280,834 of his own men were killed, 13,713 wounded and 6643 missing. Two months later he adjusted those numbers slightly and committed final figures which set the figures at 3155 killed, 14,529 wounded, and 5365 captured or missing. In his testimony before a congressional committee, the following spring, they simply rounded the figures up to 24,000 men killed or wounded and missing. And in 1900, Thomas Livermore painstakingly recalculated unit reports for the army of the potomac and put the reckoning at 3903 dead and 18,300 and 35 wounded and 5425 missing. So that the entire butchers bill edged out to 28,063. Michael jacobs was a mathematics professor at pennsylvania college, which was located on the northern outskirts of gettysburg and estimated that there were 9000 dead after the two armies moved on. It would grant jacobs as high an estimate, and he was a mathematics professor and accept a ratio based on the statistics of five wounded for every man killed and we have the record on each army of gettysburg suffering Something Like 4500 killed and 22,500 wounded. Which translates into approximately a third of each army. Dead or maimed in some way. In other words, three times the bloodletting suffered in percentages by the british and allied forces at waterloo and like the confederates, the damage to the upper command echelon was substantial. One Major General commanding a core was killed. John reynolds of the first quarter. And another was mangled and put out of action. Dan circles of the third quarter. But even with those costs, gettysburg meant something entirely different for the union. What did the people of the north think now of the old army of the potomac exalted the soldier in pennsylvania. John white gary whod commanded us wrote to his wife that the result of the war seems no longer doubtful and the beginning of the end appears. The victory at gettysburg gave proof that our days in the art of war were over and that at last we could develop and direct our forces coming as gettysburg dead, handinhand with the victory of vicksburg and lincolns chief of staff, he noticed how public feeling has publicly improved and buoyed up by the recent successes at gettysburg and vicksburg. Lincoln himself was exalted at the white house on july 7 by drawing a symbolic white line between Independence Day and the gettysburg rectory. How long ago is there, he asked the crowd. Eighty some years since the fourth of july for the first time in the history of the world that a nation by its representatives assembled and declared as a selfevident truth that all men are created equal. The victories of gettysburg and vicksburg coming on the anniversary of that selfevident truth have now put the cohorts of those who oppose the declaration that all men are created equal on the run. Even newspapers crowed that any escape from our army will be a matter of great difficulty and the newspapers predicted that if lee was pursued and brought today a great if not a decisive victory over the insurgents, it would follow. But a better way to perhaps measure the importance of gettysburg from granting the union a second win would be to consider what the alternative might have been. The prominent boston lawyer and literary lion believe that gettysburg was the turning point in our history. Not so much for winning a victory as it was for avoiding a defeat, which would have proven the army of the potomac and the unions last defeat. Had he gained that battle, it was written, the democrats would have resumed in would have stopped the war with the city of new york and governor Horatio Seymour and governor told parker of new jersey and the majority in pennsylvania, they would have had to end the contest that they would have attempted it that we at home now. That wouldve been only the best scenario and i do not hesitate to express the conviction that had the army then hit at gettysburg, it would have dissolved. Doubtless some of the other volunteer regiments were held together and made some sort of retreat towards the susquehanna. But the others had simply deserted in much the same way that napoleons army disintegrated after waterloo, leaving the rubble at liberty to go where and do what he pleased. That wouldve been the queue for the mob rule over Atlantic City and thus paralyzing the whole machinery of our government. Captain alfred lee fought at gettysburg and dreaded the prospect of the northern sympathizers with secession, establishing rule over the whole chain of cities, tearing up the railroads, destroying supplies, cutting off reinforcements. As it was, new york city blew up in draft riots 10 days after the battle. If robert lee had been crossing with the army of Northern Virginia, the susquehanna on that day, instead as he was crossing in retreat, that might now have been the army of Northern Virginia, which was called in to restore order in new york city ,com,com ma rather than Union Veterans fresh from their victory at gettysburg. Gettysburg did not end the war in one stroke. But it was decisive in us to restore the sinking morale of the union. To keep at bay the forces that hope that lincoln could be persuaded to revoke emancipation. Decisive enough to make people look back and understand that the confederacy would never be able to mount a serious invasion again. Lincoln, however, he was not satisfied with a decisive enough result. Now, by the way have this strange feeling that there may be some reconstructive confederate veterans. [laughter] who are getting in the last word on the subject lincoln was not satisfied with a decisive enough result and after a 10 day pursuit which ended, backing lees army into a pocket with its rain flooded Potomac River, no knockdown blow was struck at the rebels and leaves damaged army was able to slip across the potomac through barely usable for it. We had them in her grasp, wailed lincoln. We had only to stretch forth our hands, and they were ours area a great deal of the blame for lees escape was laid by lincoln and others at the feet of george meade. I do not believe that you appreciate the magnitude of the misfortune involved in lees escape, he wrote. The image of the unclosed hand came. He was within your easy grasp and to have closed upon him with our other late successors had ended the war. But deciding instead to be grateful for what he had actually had at gettysburg, lincoln filed the letter away, scribbling on the envelope to general need, never sent or signed. But the failure to make gettysburg a complete victory that lincoln had been hoping for has always hung like a cloud over the unhappy george meade. There is an element of injustice. He had only been shoved into command of the army of the potomac three days before the battle and he was compelled by circumstances to pick up the army of the potomac where he found it using a staff that he had no time to replace and under the unappreciative days of other Major Generals in our army, he saw no reason to yield automatic deference. On those grounds there have had been serious efforts are time to time to refashion in more glowing colors as the unsung genius who battered robert e. Lee. The most recent biographer has portrayed him as the Rodney Dangerfield of civil war generals. And he gets no respect, it is that. [laughter] but the major cost about lack of respect lies primarily with meat himself. The first meeting of the aristocrat, he had been taken for a clergyman, that is, unless one approached him when he was mad for he possessed a volcanic temper, which it did not require much to trigger. Behind his back, the men in the ranks called him a dam died snapping turtle. No one question his personal courage or confidence, but he was not a lovable or dashing commander and his disciplinary behavior would have made george look like a wuss. In october of 1862, he chased down a private with a great bundle on his back, which the soldier had pilfered from a nearby farm and he demanded to know where the corn had come from and talk himself into such a rage that he stuffed them aside of the head and almost knocked him over. Unabashed, the private picked himself up and merely returned the favor but stopped and said that if it werent for those shoulder straps, i give you the darndest thrashing that you ever had in your life. [laughter] he was just as hard on his subordinates and superiors. Im tired of this playing war without risks, he declared angrily. We must encounter risks if we fight and we cannot carry on war without fighting. Yet the real flaw was not his fiery temper but ironically the same aversion to taking risks that he complained about and others once in command he saw his task as purely defensive end shadowing in its great swift arc between the rebels and washington and the susquehanna river. I can only say now that it appears to me that i must move toward the susquehanna, keeping washington and baltimore well covered, only if the enemy is checked or if he turns toward baltimore when he tried to give him battle once is army turned away to concentrate near gettysburg, he considered his work done. In his first impulse was to pull his own army back and dig in and behind the creek 25 miles to the southeast and not keep a shield in place between the confederates in the capital. He was not inclined to go hunting with robert lee. Having thus relieved here is a bird in philadelphia, he concluded that it was now time to look to his own army and assume positions for offense or defense, or rest to the troops and that meant the collecting of our troops behind pike creek. It was John Reynolds picture alas i dont have it here. [laughter] unless my faithful assistant wants to click for me on this. Click someone. [laughter] there we go. John bolton reynolds. John was directing the army corps than made that made up the army of the potomacs left wing. And it was he who really could precipitated an encounter at gettysburg. Reynolds complained the command of one of his divisions. If they gave them defensive positions, they would strip pennsylvania of everything. He was eager to attack the enemy at once to prevent his plundering of the whole state. In a few minutes he would be shot dead as the battle opened west of gettysburg. And reynolds said while i am aware that it is not your desire to force an engagement at that point, still i feel at liberty to advance and develop the strength of the enemy. Even after his death, he still tried to recall his prematurely committed troops from gettysburg and reynolds successor in command of the left wing was rumored to have received five distinct orders from general made to withdraw his forces and not attempt to hold the position he had chosen on Cemetery Hill. Not until he set off his own eyes and ears in the form of Winfield Scott hancock. Relating an order of concentration at gettysburg and even then after the battering, giving the army of the potomac on july 2, which rivaled as the single Bloodiest Day of the civil war, he was still debating whether to fall back to pikes creek or call a war council to consider it. They refuse. But not without expressing an element of surprise that he even wanted to talk about withdrawal. Good, god, he explained, and the general is not going to retreat, is he . And no, he was not. But the credit may not be long as much as it does to a hefty list of line officers who time and again during the three days of the battle seized the initiative and kept the army from falling apart. Means that most of us have never heard before. Alexander webb, strong vincent, governor warren, norman hall, and one who you probably have heard all too much about, joshua chamberlain. These introduced men who over and over again stepped out of themselves for a moment and turned the corner or a time at some right moment and save the day. These became almost routine for Union Officers at gettysburg. By comparison, it was almost entirely reactive, in other words, the confederates acted and he responded, but not the other way around. And above all, he failed to run the army of Northern Virginia and at that moment when it was at the weakest it would ever see. Taking a little of his own advice about risks might have made him the most famous general in american history. It remained for Abraham Lincoln to renew him the ultimate significance of gettysburg. One more and another. [laughter] in fact, lets give it the last click and we will give it everything up there. You see what wonderful place the Atlanta History Center is. I just Say Something and it appears. Marvelous. If only my students in class could deliver like that the words were spoke at the dedication of the National Cemetery laid out on Cemetery Hill in the months after the battle. The words of his gettysburg address have been so familiar with usage that it may be hard now to realize what it means in lincolns view brief remarks. All of the method in turn dedication. But in lincolns mine, the fundamental significance and importance of gettysburg and the civil war lay in the survival of democracy itself. And whether any nation so dedicated can long endure it. In 1863, democracy was by no means a given. By no means was it called the end of history. Far from it. Every experiment in democracy launched in the heyday of popular revolutions have gone up in smoke. But the most smoke emerging from the french revolution. Everywhere in 1863, monarchy and privilege seemed to be on the march. While the last outpost was obligingly suiting itself through the head in the war and water and thereby demonstrating that they are inherently unstable. And arguing how could democracy help but be unstable. They are run by the consent of the government. An ordinary people can be ordinary and very selfish or cowardly and very dull ways. American democracy had been exhibiting signs of dysfunction ever since its founding by tolerating the abomination of slavery. How could they talk about equal man they were allowed to own others in the same way that one might own a horse or a pig. Whether they could triumphantly survive or indirectly perish. It was proof that proved that there were a great many of those otherwise dull and ordinary people who are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to preserve the solidarity of the nature and the right to selfgovernment and the propositions around, which it was built. They could not look through the semicircular avenues of the dead were a quarter of the 3900 men buried her were unknowns. And not be confirmed in the longevity of democracy. And in calling on living americans to dedicate themselves to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of delusion and thus insuring all the monarchies and aristocracies to the contrary that government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish. That brings us, i think, the real answer to the question of gettysburgs importance. Yes, it had military significance, as the victory that cracked the image and the power of robert e. Lee and his army and gave human army their second wind. And the sheer scale of the carnage which the battle visited not only on the soldiers, but on every family and household linked to those soldiers that is passed with any calculating the numbers can do, but even more. Gettysburg things for us because of how Abraham Lincoln translated the war experience of the black hole of battle into an anthem of democracy. So was alex webb right after all . Was gettysburg really the waterloo of the rebellion . Thank you very much. [applause] [applause] professor, we will take some questions. Try as we might to promote the theater, maybe somebody can ask a question and we will be able to better answer it. Thank you. Thank you, doctor. What an excellent speech. My greatgrandfather was jasper green of alabama or the roanoke invincible, and he was one of the 70 that were cadged into allegedly picked up this and according to harry, i have been to you at your hometown and it is absolutely breathtaking and i couldnt see where my greatgrandfather was captured because theyre playing golf over there right now. But anyway, my point is that one of the things i learned through my Family History studying this is that the iron brigade of the unit that faced the 13th in alabama that day, had tediously faced those at the Stonewall Inn fredericksburg where doubleday had been thrown off and then they had also faced, if im not mistaken in the cornfield and it strikes me that its highly unusual for one or alabama and another from wisconsin to face off in three of the most important battles of the area. What do you suppose was the reason for that . Somebody like somebody else. [laughter] is there a particular reason . Probably not. Probably not. Unless you know something that your ancestors have revealed that the rest of us have not been privy to. The 13th alabama along with archers brigade coming in together, believing that at best what they are going to be up against is just the Yankee Calvary and maybe at worse some pennsylvania militia. And as they move down to Willoughby Run and moving to the woods to the other side of the ravine, what do they see coming at them but the second wisconsin and you hear the voices running through the alabamans. That is no militia. Its those sellers and that is the army of the potomac. So the big an unpleasant surprise to find out not only were they facing the iron brigade again but that the army of the potomac was there when they had been assured that no elements were anything closer than a days march away. That was the ultimate big surprise that gettysburg. They also point out one other thing in so doing this, i have already bought your book. And i did a study of my own Family History my greatgrandfather was sent off to be interred up at fort delaware. When i went there to reenact that for the delaware historical society, it was pointed out that archer was actually a prisoner at fort delaware and tried to lead a rebellion and i noticed on your page, 150, you dont mention that. You mention mentioned that he went to ohio, so you might want to look at a revision. And if you take that version. He went to fort delaware along with most of the confederate prisoners, but since he was an officer and a general officer, he was then segregated out to sandusky, ohio, where he came down with the disease that even after he was exchanged in 1864, and ended up killing him, so we are both right. Unless you would like me to deliver a book twice the size of the one that you have. [laughter] there are some details i cant quite put in there. But it does give you something of an idea of the intensity of which the battle of gettysburg had been studied. It is an attribute to the importance of gettysburg and what it assumes an american memory that unlike almost all of their civil war battles, we can get together and Start Talking about what individual regiments and companies were doing at gettysburg, almost where you can ask people what kind of tool or would you like. Would you like this on the regiment level or Company Level depending on how detailed you want to get. But that is the detail that is for anyone who wants to begin the study of the battle and you can get together with some good gettysburg nerds and really have a fun heyday. By the way the golf course, be at ease, it is gone. The Gettysburg Country club went bankrupt. And the property was brought up by the National Park service to be added to the battle field. Only in a place where civil war memory plays such a big role couldve put a golf course out of business. [laughter] all right, thank you, doctor. We enjoyed your talk so much. They didnt have anything to do this, that they . No, i dont think so. You place a lot of importance and i now see it in a new light as a pivotal point. But would you entertain the idea that had the british not done their part, the british curb on the day . People sometimes ask me what i think the turning point of the civil war was and i always answer that mathematics. That is the safest because it is true, therere any number of factors, even in 1864, which might have pointed to a different result. Palouse George Mcclellan was elected rather than lincoln. At that point, the confederacy is bleeding from every pore, but its still there. But the election wouldve led almost at once for the opening of some kind of negotiations. Once the negotiations began, no one was going to start shooting again. Not after what people have gone through for the previous three years. Even as late as that point, the confederacy might still have old chestnuts from the fire and achieve some kind of independence. But this is to speak of extraordinary situations and details that could derail the locomotive. What gettysburg established is that the rails and the locomotives themselves are pointing towards the station at appomattox. Borrowing some extraordinary intervention of some sort. The real result was already in the cards after gettysburg and it mightve come quicker had george meade been quicker. He was not, but still. After that, the confederacy is really fighting a series of defensive campaigns which bit by bit drained the last of its strength away and maybe end if not outright inevitable about as predictable as we can make it. I have to admit that as soon as i got the book, i did not start at the beginning but i turned to the part about stewarts ride because i wanted to see how you have handled that. You quote the statement that no one could define what he did or didnt do because of stewarts activities and that prompts my questions, i would like your analysis of his comment. Has someone been able to come up with something he did or did not do because of his absence, and i would like to follow up on. Ari, the story of jeb stuart and his absence became important after the battle because the confederacy was looking for a scapegoat and blame and someone to whom they could point the finger. Actually there were a number of nominees and soon was only one of them. But over time he became one of the real goats of the game and the argument runs like this. He sets off on this joyride that he is supposed to be covering the far right flank of the army of virginia but he manages by his own ineptitude and vanity to get diverted around the other side of the potomac and for all practical purposes right out of the campaign, leaving robert lee to fumble around blindfolded and bump into the army of the potomac by accident and the result is that he loses the battle and the south loses the war and it is all jeb stuarts fault. But there are a couple of problems with it. One is that lee was not rendered blindfolded simply because calorie in the American Civil War does not function as an intelligence arm. Calgary is entirely like calgary and the proportions are much smaller and the American Civil War armies than they were in the european armies. And the chief functions are twofold. Screening and rating. Stewart had never been responsible for gathering intelligence for robert lee. That function was performed by spies and secondly individual scouts. In the case of robert lee, there was a third source of northern newspapers and we love to read more than newspapers. The so obligingly proved this in their columns. The fact that he wrote himself as foolishly as he did in his recklessly as he did did not mean that robert lee had no idea what he was doing and where he was going or what you likely to meet. He knew very well what he was doing. In fact, he complained to George Campbell brown that he had been reading from the newspapers stewart was riding around baltimore and washington and he knew where he was. What he was irritated with was not that he was in this way, but that he was violating the principle of concentration of forces. It was not intelligence, it was stewart and his calorie that he wanted. And that was what was irritating robert lee. So was he responsible for the body . No, he knew exactly what he was doing when he ordered the concentration of the army of Northern Virginia at gettysburg. Rather he disappointed them by mishandling the role he was supposed to have been providing a screening for the right flank of the army. But it was not a case where he blundered because jed had somehow left him blind and groping around the countryside. That became a convenient excuse for the results of the campaign. And that is what informed john mosbys comments. He defended stewart and was bitterly critical of Charles Marshall who was leave the secretary and the principal finger pointer at jeb stuart. Then they go back and forth over stewart. Stewart is of course dead. He was killed in may of 1864 but mosby kept pointing out and i think much to the point that stewarts absence was not a critical factor in his decision to fight at gettysburg. The decision to fire was not by default because of jeb stuart. We are hoping to understand us and the thing that amazes me is that on the 26th of june, my question is had he known as early as the 26th and 27 that the potomac is what it was, could he have concentrated beginning then and be in much better shape as he was on the first of july . We does not order his concentration until the evening of the 27th of june. It is not until that point that he finally has sufficient intelligence the conference to him that the army is strung out and vulnerable and has been learned that he can now turn it for what it was at carlisle and bring up hell hell from where they had been position. To bring them all together to concentrate and then bite off the head of the army of the potomac. We mightve done on earlier, but he didnt have a need to do that earlier. Its not until the 27th once they have moved on. But he orders his concentration and does not in fact see this because John Reynolds pushes in there and sees his efforts. It was a missed opportunity in that respect. It sounds like he could have ordered that concentration in it mightve changed history. More so even than 12 or 18 hours and after that you get intervals of 15 minutes. In which the entire outcome of events hangs that illustrates the timing is everything. This is not a question but a quick story during a the battle or right before the battle, we had many troops down a in my ancestor had broken his leg and he was recovering from it and he was called up to go down there and fight. So he started to go to down there and he ran into a blind man that had been called up to fight. The blind man says that i will help you and you tell me what ago, but sure enough they turned out to be two generations of the family. We have one more question. I dont know if i can top that, but the question that i have is that compared to the napoleonic warfare is that if you dont have this, you dont have an annihilation that dissolves. I guess maybe the closeness is what you seek with the army. Would you think causes this cohesiveness in the civil war and is that the land . Would he think . Is actually a good deal more simple and that is ineptitude. You have to remember that as much as we bade them in the romantic you over amendments, honorable as they were in many respects. Nevertheless, these were civilians and the army consisted of 16,000 men and it was not much better than a frontier structure. No cadres of existing formations or anything for newly recruited volunteers to move into. Everything had to be made up on the spot. Everything was in prague. But the result that large parts of these armies, officers and generals have never commanded large formations before in their lives and many of them have only the faintest idea what they are doing. Among them are drilling their men for holding the tactic books in their hands. And while that sounds slightly amusing, it is no joke when youre under fire. When the shells are screaming in your head. The greatupposo have said that the American Civil War was like two armed mobs chasing each other around the countryside and thats not very complimentary. We dont really like that. But unfortunately close to the truth. These were not well disciplined armies. One is that his army is going to turn so happily towards leaving that the riches of pennsylvania will accomplish what the army has been less unable to do, that is dissolve it into a mob of bandits. In these armies are constantly cheering, they are amateurs, they are inexperienced, they are commanded by inexperienced people, even those who are professional soldiers, many of them like dick ewell contends that watch them turn once he graduated from he spent the next 15 years for getting everything he learned except how to command a company. And what was more was the education you got was an education in combat and tactics and strategy. West point was an Engineering School and still is maintained under the corps of engineers. So the education was about building things and not about combat. They didnt even hold target practice for the most part. Something which comes so dramatically as he remember from one part of the book. You sit there and you calculate how many shots are fired versus how many actually hit a target. And the average like it takes 100 and 25 fired shots. Well, thats not a compliment to marksmanship, but that is about how well i do shooting. Its all a function of lack of discipline and lack of training. So it means you never quite get things together that means that they follow the most extraordinary rockridge. This shows you how to load and fire the guns and the part is that they were there in combat. All of them are breaking and running for for their lives and they did not gettysburg either. That is what is sublime about the soldiers that is the stubbornness and consistency with which they did their duty. Not because they loved it, anything but. Time and time and again on this battlefield, what we see is people shooting at each other one moment and 10 minutes later they are at the other side. E humanity because really they were not professionals. But they were doing a job performing a duty that they were called to do and it was not a duty that they wanted to do. They did not want to kill each other. They wanted the war to be over and they wanted peace to come. They also wanted it to come honorably. That is what kept them at their bloody task still nobles what they did. Thank you very much. Please buy a book. We look forward to seeing you next time. Erika, what is on your Summer Reading list in a. I have a book by meg wallace on my night table and i started reading it. I also read a lot of books on meditation and im reading about the buddhist way of meditation. So i do meditate and i have done yoga for 30 years. And im always catching up on that part of my reading. But its very much the next thing im going to read, its called the interesting and it starts with a group of teenagers in an arts camp and take them forward to their 40s and 50s. Let us know what you are reading this summer. Tweet us at booktv imposed on her Facebook Page or send us an email at booktv cspan. Org. Coming up on cspan2, a discussion about peacekeeping efforts in wartorn countries. Then more booktv on the battle that began the revolutionary war at bunker hill. And i we will have more with the George Washington of south america coming up next. Its unusual in such a way but she certainly did. I think it was her youth and her effervescence and such a change i know never having read about her she was a very happy girl come and she gives the official title which wouldnt normally be given, it would only be given to the wife of an ambassador. Now a discussion of what peacekeeping efforts in post for