Transcripts For CSPAN2 In Depth With Herb Boyd 20170703

With us on the Independence Day weekend professor what is july 4th mean to you . [laughter] it means Frederick Douglassw. You could have the general celebration we have a different perspective from the africanamerican aameri community is a long history to understand the distinction in terms of the celebration for one community and a lack of the observance on the other part and what does it mean to those who have a history of bondage of segregation and jim crow to you have to understand the sensitivity from one community to another. Obviously Start Talking about the history of this country and the roles of africanamericans to provide that celebration is a whole other question. The f we have been at the forefront of the battle of freedom for justice and liberty for erfurt fr update number one so in terms of the boston massacre since that moment across the years the matter what type of internet or turmoil or conflict order world war the people were involved didnt you find a contribution of africanamericans what Frederick Douglass was saying at that time is what does it mean to have your socalled celebration . So with this holiday period. With your book autobiography of a people using 5,000 africanamericans fought in the revolutionary war. Guest exactly. But of those the most heroicaeri i always think of the individuals that stand out like solomon and peter and one stood out because he was a flute player with the revolutionary war three people marching to the drama of the flute player if somebody else was holding a flag but theyre well could have been there with his contribution that he made to provide that musical inspiration that has always been part of this country that was inseparable for the people of fielding the guns going out to battle and then using that civilRights Movement. But now back during the revolutionary period providing thatat instrumentation as well ast picking up a gun at some stand point but also with the naval situation with that naval participants. So that is the beginning as part of the understanding that history of that evolution of the military inn this country. Host are there to separate histories going on in the United States . That is always true. Almost from the beginningt from when you look at it from the origins of the country and going back to the africans that was brought here to understand that treatment and the distinctions rand a stand of the indentured servants servants and so the history of the black people in the state of new york so to be in detroit of a microcosm in with those two separate societies and a very dramatic moment in history that is sharpened by conflict so that every billion end of 1967 or 1968. And to move inevitable and that conflict with the tension and turmoil so with that treatment of the restrictive covenant for those africanamerican people so those two separate communities or societies to be inside United States of america. So that separation from the beginning to bring the twomo communities together and then from the emancipation days the with the treatment of africanamericans. Host in your book black panthers period the dedication. Tuva panthers who dared to challenge one of the most repressive governments. Guest the black Panther Party is almost emblematic and to speak truth to power and then and that is the opportunitye kind other then those academic stuff into be the illustrator of the book and so at that time with the goal of the panthers and what i tried to do with that exhilaration is matched thatat graphic interpretation and then to a sorb the entire imagery that she presenteddougla also the graphic artist in the illustrator so what we try to do there is given another perspective of the treatises and it all of those individuals of thehu Panther Party to give that another eight gold for those who were just introduced to the panthers many of them were coming out of that experience to have that g opportunity to have that visual representation of the black Panther Party. Some people may take issue of the worlds most repressive government in your dedication you dedicated to the panthers who were there to challenge one of the worlds most repressive governments. Guest yes. Think we are talking about one of the most repressive governments and that wase their perspective and how they viewed that and they live with that particular understanding so i try to find out what do they mean or how do they deliver and then the reaction across the country was a very violent period in terms of what was happening in the Africanamerican Community is ao this is an outrage coming from them but sometimes expressing resistance it can take a violent turn and that is not the first time. We have many elements of black people fighting back. That is the untold story of africanamerican history. The whole sense of resistance with the idea that we went along with the way things were. Histor so i have highlighted which the resistance took a violent form which the black pants the black Panther Party you had charismatic individuals with of leatherac jackets and march to a different beat against this Oppressive Society. So that was their perspective we may have argued with that to have different strategies with a different kind of tactic with those of ideological approaches but they wanted to do dramatize in such a way thats to pick that up so that was a revolutionary practice going on so it was universal and a global expression. It was the winds of change across the effort can continent. So fighting againster portuguese were fighting against south africa or what was happening and other parts of the continent like algeria so those kinds of things were in the year air with the same type o understanding to move against the Oppressive Society but to do that in a violent way because as john brown said you can otherwise host with a black pewters the natural heir to Marcus Garvey . Not exactly more of malcolm x. And to get to before you get to markets. Santry universal Negro Improvement Association that throughout the 1920s because at 1. In 1922 had almost 6 million members with the Garvey Movement across the caribbean in particular so thats connection the panthers have with malcolm x because he is fascinated and the Panther Party came into existence almost one year later. October 1966 because of those elements develop right in harlem so there was a Certain Energy or inspiration that they picked up from malcolm x so any thinker or movement. Host in your collection of exit essays it is it written that we live in a short memory culture that detonate dominate the black life therefore it is for repsol them formerly taught dirty bomb was discussed. The author is right but with that particular publication actually have three doctors with me and really the book is a reaction to many miracles a very controversial biography of malcolm x and we put our Heads Together on that something had to be said to counter those inclusions that was reached in his book but i had read Something Like 75 reviews and i approached the other three coeditors to propose the idea it was published by thirdworld press because we figure what he said and i stood right with him across the years but had some differences coming to the interpretation and rather than personally so why round of these other thinkers for the most part those that were taking opposition . It may not be fair to summarize it is complicated and involve to sell water to be reacting to . Where the problems that he presented . When you have 35 different writers for the most part then we bring some that support him with the balance but what they talk about he talks about is an absence going back to the creation of black steady that was not properly reflected and something had to be done about that a rerun of a period where it was pivotal in terms of educating to get the perspective and a critical analysis of what was going on from thent educational standpoint in this country and he is mitt is superb teacher and publisher and poet and basically it was his idea to pick up of a project so i felt comfortable adding that he would propose with the analysis and i talk to him the other day the whole project he is involved with now to deal with a donaldld Trump Administration so that continues that same type of legacy we talk about change in our society. Host coming out in 2012 that was before the National Book Award Winning book. With maya board . You reve an essay in here by mr. Coates. You have to go back to read his essay with a balanced approach his book between the world than me that has been phenomenal and rightfully so he is very insightful commentator on the times so the next generation for those older folks or the elders in their particular publication ir know his father very well and over the years of course, he is a former panther himself so we say the truth doesnt the fruit doesnt fall that far from the tree and that is far the elements of that generation to understanding. So we have this tremendous respect for him and what he is doing now there some of those other people that began to see him the Second Coming like of James Baldwino a and he disavows that to a certain extent but they say that they finally have someone with that statement sensibility from where we are as a people to speak truth to power and carriesad on that tradition with a similar perspective and analysis and a command of words because he lived in the command of the literature and how to present that in such a way to resonate for the ordinary person out there but also be academics who require more with the presentation. So that strikes a nice balance between the street people who can connect with those ideas that the same time of the academics who b demand more intellectually. Host you wrote a biography of James Baldwin 2008b said there seems to be a resurgence of everett discussion is that fair . No doubt. The matter where you look you have baldwin i was looking at Justice Sotomayor from the Supreme Court she was quoting James Baldwin. Bal there is a film that made the rounds i am not your negro and that is significantly important so i had the opportunity to redress that film in pittsburgh that the film and Arts Festival to talk about the significance of baldwin begin they have three or four publications that they play off the title but those essays that comprise them and baltimore with his magisterial debt this is the epitome of James Baldwin addre with those inequities that exist in our society i can understand people going back to revisit that 1963 publication but it is the eternal. It wont go away baldwin will not go away because he is so prophetic. He was dealing with a situation that his time with a number of problems or issues with the same pertinent concerns todayad that he addressed back then. That is why his words havein meaning today because that is germane to our days. So from a legal standpoint or a film maker whenever of academics and journalists that has an amazing conference in relevant ways and his trauma in terms of the playwright so the public clarion as the of voice for the people so to understand he was speaking and addressing issues of his peop that have not gone away so no you see people that sample his words to their creative endeavors. That speaks to the power of perception what he understood not only his personal life but he was one that was exemplary about feelings with that articular avoid to address those issues that it continues to resound today so you are absolutely right in terms of the omnipresent he continues to be from of prophetic and literary standpoint. Host you met him . Psi mets had a couple of opportunities back in the day for go one evening i escorted him home. My good friend is an attorney who is a phenomenalro film maker is to documentarys on portuguese was called the people are organized by the gatt Hunter College we had a big fundraiser for the mozambique project i satht right next to him and after it was over robert escorted him home. Po but that was the only real opportunity other than being in the audience to bed engrossed with what he had to say but and to you trembling and asked him of course i was absolutely terrified to walk with such a supreme intellectual but he was not that kind of individual. He was smoking a cigarette chapter to first he would expound on anything under the sun so those . Moments i had with himi rememb remember he came to detroitt soe to speak at conference over linguistics that is when you bionics was going space in we absolutely were enthralled of the importance of bubonic sore black language and then to break it down and specified what he meant in that was a longer essay but the opportunity to be in his presence with back charisma lives with me all these days. Why did he move to france . First of all, he left harlem and 18 years but 1948 he already has killed europe period of developing his writing style. Oh lot of the writers think that way seve you can do out there. To say nothing of those white writers at the time so that was the of purview how do you develop yourself as a writer . Somebody born in 1 1924 in harlem so by the time he is 24 years of agent he is on his way to another country. He has explained his reasons with his own essays but other biographers have picked up on the same issuendert try did he leave this country and why did you choose france . I think the evolving in that way to his early years in going to his high school in the bronx to be under the influence of one of his teachers who taught him french so in terms of the connection to french culture and language that was coming out of the harlem renaissance. So i speculate that may have been the seed that was planted very early and then reading as he did but then at that time you have different cultural developments going non and with his background that seem to be a good place to go to express that space to be liberated if you discover that there will be some restrictions because there is another culture butted did afford him in a private way because with that old writing process was a private affair so here was the opportunity to have a certain isolation for when he goes off to switzerland and becomes even more isolated but it gives them the opportunity for expression you cannot get out there and be involved in the community waikiki and in the state sued afforded him the opportunity to be introspective and in doing so he can now with his first novel for all of those different transformations so then it exploded in such a way i see he was half way ready and he was also surprised but he also tookd the notoriety and recognition he had to come back. And in doing so we will see over the years until the Civil Rights Movement derives thatd is when he becomes more involved what is happening in this country because people feel he was disconnected and gone too long it did not understand what was happening but he had his hand on the pulse the matter where he wasmatter because he was a communicator were understanding that right now with his letters turned over to the Schomburg Center see you get the idea nattily he expressed himself as his own endeavors as a novelist but he wrote all kinds of letters to individuals so eventually take a look at all those letters to get the understanding of what was going on in this country then he had to come back to be a part of it with in particular the march on washington. Host what is your connection to knock the max and his family . I need a drink of water on that one. [laughter] host now i will introduce the program. This is a booktv monthly inwh Death Program we invite one author to talk about his or her body of work we have professor and historianbeginn professor boyd down the glory road 1995 contributions of africanamericans u. S. History and culture and the odyssey of black men in america. And autobiography of a people and also the editor of the book race and resistance, a the harlem reader 2003 we shalle overcome the history of the civilRights Movement as it happened heros of americaries mi more in the third king pound for pound sugar ray robinson. Y, he civilrights yesterday and today and by any means necessary and the diary of malcolm x. In the most recent black detroit that came down this year. Professor boyd will be with us to take your calls and comments over the next two 1 2 hours. Host we will cycld through those addresses again. Now, back to the question of your connection to malcolm x and his family. Guest without malcolm i dont think that would be sitting here with you. His assassination was almost like some extent my birth politically. Although i had been associated with him very early on from 20 years of age reading and in detroit at that time i was in andd around several friends and relatives who were members of the nation of islam they were very understanding with the organization was all about and coaching me in teaching me because i amow just 20 years of age at this point and a highschool graduate i have not been to college. But involved with whole Work Community because when you graduate from high school the dream was to get a job that the automobile factory. To get a job, a car and driver around the community or get a girlfriend. Then by the house and raise a family and all of those things. So i met these individuals out there who were the nonconformist or those outsiders raising issues and saying Different Thingss about life and i was attracted to them. So going to the meetings and then going to a couple of sessions when malcolm came to speak and i was absolutely blown away was amazing to hear the eloquence and analysis that he provided so i said that is it for me i will be down here so every time he came i would go to the moscow. Sq our friend of mine livend chght around the corner. He was a member and hehe convinced me to join the nation of islam. So in 1960 i was in new york city for about a yearandahalf the live in the village in the brooklyn in directly connected with malcolm in those days i was trying to survive and get a job but periodically at go to harlem to speak malcolm x speak to the of Harlem Community resuming my connection but not in a concrete way i was more involved in the music and literature of the village hanging out with individuals like bob thompson and ted jones of course, that was when i was living avila in the village but they were my a idles at the time for a literary aspirations i was looking to them as inspiration and as an example so they embraced me that it would be the voice that i am hearing that would not go away to be connected more immediately with those of other writers because that was my aspiration appoint. So the army was chasing me for i did not let them catch me so that iran into the service 1962 but i returned to detroit and then right around the corner i said now i will join the nation ofad islam which is going to the process the army grabbed meconsn and as a Conscientious Objector or joined the army to see the world anden highways was the venturing spirit that is like my mother to say get out there and see the world the army offered me that opportunityi so i went into the service but even then malcolm was on my mind. 1964 i remember i was stationed outside of Frankfurt Germany i am not sure if it was my mother in a letter or a newspaper article in terms of readingpers International Newspapers in germany but i heard he would be traveling to morocco going to casablanca so when i heard that i said i have to go see him so many gis were going to stop cold war sweden i wanted to go south to north africa and go to morocco so now i had a purpose to do so. Lcolm. So young man named ralph barnes from philadelphia and i convinced him to go with me. We hitchhike across germany and france and spain i had a 32 day lead in sight to a full of vintage and rolf was right there with me we took the ferry to tangier and there was a village background i knew about the fact black pussycat which did say bar that was owned by ted jones so that was the destination we went straight there that ted jones was a Migratory Bird in the wintertime he would be where it was warm but timbuktu as well as parts of tangier so the bartender said there is a room on the fifth floor so we got the top floor of thisoo building 3 00 in the morningonea somebody broke the window and took rolfes one wallets and money he was too t late to catch him i chased him across the roof but the next morning he went back to the base price said i am not going back malcolm is coming here any day but to cut off that communication and not sure how to find out that information but i will stay here in tangiers so i stayedal there for the full 30 daysma and missed malcolm completely because i could not give me exactly later i discovered things happened in his life that delayed that arrival but i missed him there. I was going to miss him again february 14, 1965 i am back in detroit and i get word that he is coming to town i am excited drop the opportunity to see him again that that morning his house was firebombed indeed during his life and his family lucky to get out of their lives. With the word got out Early Morning hours i figure theres no way he is going to come with this turmoil that is a disaster but a man of his word he got on the plane and 9 00 that morning and honored his obligation by th invited by the Henry Brothers who have their own Recording Company with about with a black nationalist movement but malcolm came and when i heard about that thai i was working the graveyard shift my cousin told me later he could smell the smoke. Ather that is from what he could gather from that tragedy or a disaster that a fall he could recover from the housell that was virtually destroyed. He gave one of the most important speeches of his life, one of the last major speeches he was going to do to others when he got back but i missed it so i have too great disappointments and missed him in africa and in my hometown of detroit. I miss him now in a physical way as his intellectual guidance so that is my in trn to him to explore what he meant not just to meet but to the world working with his daughter was another way to do it. I teach a class at city college on the life andes times of malcolm x. In so that is one way i stay in touch with him. When i first started teaching the first book i used was the biography of malcolm x coming out two years before so even in the beginning of my teaching career he was my guide and his book is so expressive so when i teach the course now the reverie and the memory going back back to when i was close to him and see him at the mosque of we would wind up in the hallway and he would go downhaul tove shake everybodys hand he came to me and said what you say anything . But i was so absolutely intimidated i just grabbed his he rand and he moved down the line and never had a chance to have a oneonone with him. Host herb boyd, did you ever fully join the nation of islam . No. Host and did you drop out . In terms of the actual joining you have to go through a process do join the nation of islam before you can get approval i was cut off because i went into the army so it was notpl completed. But my a intentions at that time was to become a membersaida they talk about your career and your life to make sure people pick up the things that i dont i a ph. D. I think sometimes those get mixed up but there are certain things about my life we do the best things thatth we can so even with that misunderstanding. Host wint malcolm x left the nation of islam . That is an interesting question because you have to different understandings. Was he pushed out or did he voluntarily leave . There is that combination to say part and parcel to some degree he was pushed out but it was also time for him to leave. This was march the 1964 when he made the announcement. H host he was dead within the year because even before then with that fascination that was the beginning of the end to move in that direction if you go back even 1962 when he was involved he began to express that political outlets with that general philosophy that to be drawn to that since the nature of islam at 1. Was a platform for that talking about a straight jacket when he talked about the chickens coming home to roost he was beginning to ruth declare his independence to speak to the issues of the day and already began to raiset concerns over the life of Elijah Muhammed so that was a cumulative process to the point of separation that was a combination of factors to say it is time for me to go and onto Something Else so of course, travel 1864 was the most eventful year of his life but was only a couple of months into that but to go down to your areas 65 is a significant part of a growth and development the industry in the nfl whole Global Affairs in cairo egypt was aat monumental leap and then suddenly moving through the ranks and then by 1964 but even in egypt said they about saudi arabia said he had the opportunity to meet with the International Leaders almost like their president of White America at that time. He was on a mission and malcolm was on a mission at that time not a liberating u. S. Government to bear with the mistreatment because he picked up the cry of of patterson he made that same charge against u. S. Government and would make the case at the summit but he did circulate a petition that was his castigation so you can understand of trepidation the u. S. State department had this charismatic individual so i feel hollow when he made that evolution that was a self discovery process at the same time and how youll utilize that power. So wellcome was probably at the peak. We are a couple miles south of harlem does the auditorium still exist . Giveaway it does but it has spent transformed to the memorial center. You can go there for different activities during the time of year of course, his birthday or of his assassination to remindn themselves again but it is said to the form of what it was through the transformation that many individuals connected through mouth comes life. That now you have the Malcolm X Society to ensure that the legacy continues far beyond. Two individuals would come together on the same page letter to literally and figuratively. We are going to see that happening from generation to generation, mark delaney and Frederick Douglass, right down to the differences that they had read down to looking at henry and Frederick Douglass in terms of how you move to deal with this oppression and White Supremacists we have in society. You have these kind of politicae differences. You have different strategies and tactics so now all there is nothing different. Its the Civil Rights Movement. More than anything i think we have a couple of fine scholars have dealt with the differences. They find the commonalities. It seems i dont agree that is what is happening in terms of the kernel. There should be some kind of a way that we can bring it together on these things and they were on a trajectory that they were moving in such a way that the ideas were coming in closer and closer together. Taken from that perspective may be less so with margin he began with the leaders of the civilt Rights Movement at that time it became less absorbed by that. He ran into john lewis. About john lewis talks about his autobiography is meeting now malcolm was and they are cordial as the indication he is moving more and more and shortly. Thereafter moving closer and closer to where you are so can you meet me halfway now, already reached a certain plateau of understanding of an analysis. N o sanitation workers. It was nothing new for him so to have martin talking about then you can see the politicales, coi trajectories coming closer andcs closer together. Its going back to 1964 when they happened to bump into each other it is a kind of photo op. They went to selma and at that time, martin was in the same jail and they catch that moment he is telling her i thought his back more or less is what hes saying. Hes reaching out and expressing an attitude of protection if they dont deal with margin they will have to deal with me, kind of a hidden threat. So that is anothe another that m was beginning to reach out in such a way that he had never done before. When we talk about this being a farce on washington, we talkedsa about 1963 almost a year later and this attitude is beginning to change. And i think he has his eyes openinopeninto so many potentiaf realities of coalescing and collaboration and bringing our resources together because we have a mutual entity. Host you have been very patient waiting on the phone line. We will put them in herseth again and cycle through the social media so you can contact them. We will begin with netherland cleveland ohio, you are on the air on tv. I would like to bring up the role of the black church andn t clergy in the Civil Rights Movement. Martin luther king and Ralph Abernathy and a whole number of other people including lisaop jackson were in the black church but has anyone ever written a book about the role of the black church is a long description of the challenges that try him to the disagreements and problems between the leadership and also the role of men and women that are not clergy i would like to find out if anyone has written a book on that topic, thank you. Quite a few come to think of it. Earlier reference to the scholar whos done a magnificent job of bringing the ideas of malcolm and martin together. In terms of the black theology thats important in terms of looking at how black nationalism defends the whole churchobviou movement. They have a long history. Sa you might say the slaveholderkin looking in and having access because the we know how the term until that was offsetting the possibility of revolt once you gain that kind of information because of the private situation as it was talked about in terms of how you begin to express yourself and have a commentary with ourselves without somebody listening in all the time. But i think the church has been a refuge and sanctuary in the political ideas that grew out. We can look a could look at thes that are revolutionaries down to the 1950s. I kind of invoke at least five or six important pastors. , who they talk about alberta who eventually becomes the whole black nationalism within the church and the role he played in 1963 when malcolm comes to town and of course there is a difference there between the outlook of franklin at that point. But anyway talking about whether or not it is coming from the islamic or christian standpoint that church or religion is very instrumental in our understanding of how they bring these formations together in such a way that could have an impact of bringing about change. In terms of looking at theer church there is any number ofen commentators that we have had that have been just absolutelyli indispensable given some understanding male or female about the role of religious h leaders. Guest its the pride that i take invoking the influenceinc and impact. I was talking to her this morning. One of the opportunities she gave the family she took my brother and me and sister she gave us the sense to do anythi anything. Her life is an example of that is because she was born in a live debate co alabama as i was and. Rarely she would take off and shes in her 20s venturing allll the way to michigan to meet up with people who embrace her and her native abilities and intuition that have always been amazing to me. The understanding i dont know where she got that from. I dont try to understand my grandmother in a certai and a cd of adventure disputed on the male side which is pretty much unknown for may. So she is the resource over the years moving us are bound to the community in detroit. But when i talk about my history in the city, its really her history. Y people will find immediately who she is not only our understanding of that history that her whole life. Its kind of the biography of her life and i know to some degree she takes exception. And i can understand that but the lessons of her life should be shared with a much Larger Population than just our family. I try to convey and capture the essence of her spirit. She goes to the food pantry to get goods to bring it back to s the complex to share with all oa her friends. I love that kind of commitmentth and we always hope you can bring up some of the same energy and understanding but she taught me well to understand how to get back so thats why i try to do that in a different way of course that the story needed to be told maybe not in a direct way but indirect way. It seems to be all the different moments in detroit history who went back to 1943 and a couple months before here she was caught up in all of that. Here is a spoiler on this. Big fan of your work as an alabama native i read that you move from birmingham at an early age. Can you talk about that and how it impacted you and would you be a different person if your family stayed in birmingham . My mother and i go back and forth. He took me to the church intovi this whole community was built. Having to know what would happen if i have renamed their to some extent i could look at my house brothers and sisters that have lived very productive and very important lives of their own except for one of my sisters but moved out. There have been too moved out who i met in michigan and detroit. It was this movie that came out capturing the whole spirit of plantation days. What do you have to say about this film now retired and after the show was over she told me there is a call for you so i picked up the phone and this young lady answered me saying what is your fathers name and i told her clinton. I was born in alabama. She said i think youre my brother. She was important to introducing me to my other brothers and sisters. I imagine i would have had that same spirit. No one knows where its coming from but you pick it up from your fathers and mothers and it jumps over generations in such a way they felt the need to go my back to. She moved us around the community but i never left any of those neighborhoods behind. I brought them right along with me and went to revisit them in the same way she moves around the Community Today bringing these people together in aing it classroom or through my articles and news and other publicationst as an attempt to provide someun understanding about. Caller so much of the work has inspired me mainly as a critiquthecritique of liberalisi want to thank cspan for allowing this kind of conversation about this work. Professor, you have written a lot so it is hard in this short time. Have to tell you thank you for everything but i want to focusw on at least two points from your body of work that helped me tremendously. You wrote we shall overcome which was mentioned in the program. In the narration. They would find a Common Ground in the distrust a subject that occurs throughout the fiction. Thank you for selecting my ess essay. In the speech on the appeal to the african heads of state one of the notes on page 85. Im so glad that earlier in the program. Can you talk about how the liberal media promotes . Ply insp i was deeply inspired by thevoil work. I also interviewed about the biography. Im so grateful to allow this form of opinions. Velop my by discussing the development as mentioned of malcolm x. And also the actors and voices that are narrating the history. Host we are going to leave it there. Guest im glad you brought that up in terms of the contribution. Fine scholar, writer and colleague. You hope that theres more like him out there. Host lets go to the final when he asks. In the process of developing. Scholars could gthe scholars cod forth in terms of sharpening the analysis and understanding of the politicall political econome country. We have to go abroad and he had to leave this country in order to see the country. I could see the full picture of it. He its to get a better understanding of the american situation. They pick up the information in their analysis and understandi understanding. The american dollar which is the last word at the end of the petition that is circulated was that he was trying to comment on something that is relevant today to move into political and economic way to. What is your assessment of that and how do you begin to break that down and how meaningful can that be in the overall growth and development of some people. We cant separate ourselves completely from that because this within enterprises, entrepreneurial things going on i talk about in the troy because they are inseparable in terms of understanding the Overall Development of the people. We have to look at the people that owned the business is. Its not to say it is predisposed in opposition to the political outlook. They could be in concert with it. Many people say do you see that in the capitalist formation network i guess in one way we are making money but that is the distance. Its an opportunity to provide jobs for individuals. Youve are sustaining their lives so thats an important part on the editorial direction of the publication and thats where the analysis comes in to say are you providing the information that we need and are you giving us the kind ofth insight that is where the rubber meets the road for the american dollars of capitalism from the entrepreneurial outlook of those people that are the businessmen and women who are interested in preserving the communities and expanding the possible to be providing jobs and the wherewithal. It is part and parcel. Some of them are concerned in the likelihood of moving in a productive and concrete way. Thats where we have to have some analysis and discussion. Lets get to this discussion. Hes surrounded by all these kind of individuals and critique is on the American Experience so they descended into begin to explain how unique the experience is. There were certain realities he didnt go to college. This man was self educated and had a phd talk by elisha mohammed. He began understanding his parents connection to the movement. It was a quick study. He said the malcolm was the best student that he ever have. , ita professor, first it is a pleasure to be able to publiclyt acknowledge the important contributions to make interpreting the history and culture and its also a joy. We talked about church and the newspapers having come of age they gather together and provided an opportunity for that exchange to talk about the church and the press i wondered if you could talk about the role of the independent bookstore. Guest good question. Im sorry i let that out. Just the other day i was at revolution books it used to be on the corner of lenox avenue. Her father wrote a book wrot caa star to steer her by. He advised Marcus Garvey in the 1920s so heres his daughter who later ron was wounded in an explosion. Bookstore and your caller is absolutely right of all kinds of intellectual ideas and gatherings. I had some concern on Wayne State University back in the day there were bibliophiles and you could get the liberation magazines and publications in particular. They werent available there so it was tough but i books. They are on the other corner now for the militant radicalt, wha revolutionary economies that covers the expands so that is what the call is talking about in the revolutionary period. The stat State Office Building s where the intersection is on 125th street. For many years you could see images of malcolm speaking out in front of that bookstore in terms of the propaganda. If you go out into other parts of the country in philadelphia,e chicago, the bookstores have been important in offering opportunities for those who otherwise are not invited. The independent booksellers, i stand by them and love them all. Host next call is from helen in philadelphia. Excellent show, god bless your mother. Can you please qualify the assertion about the black agency and centered leadership and selfdetermination . And im framing this questiond for the socalled criticism of black wives matter following black agency with a black woman leadership meetings and my question is the media is trying to label and we know brother John Henry Clarke told us the only reason his White Supremacy and White Supremacy is the only racism. Can you please discuss this in relation to the assertion that African People can have alliances but have to have selfdetermination and can you also throw more on this because as we are resisting this white power structure, the system of White Supremacy that is racism and thank you and shout out to cspan, excellent show, please, support the movement and im remembering the african liberation army. Good work. Thank you so much. Helen in philadelphia. Guest we will go back and i think they biography did pineal joseph and of course his own writing seeded with Charles Hamilton looking at the whole concept for selfdetermination in terms of new africa and all those individuals who. Its a continuation. We can see the processing going on particularly the antinormalization bring backey this fugitive of justice and of course the cuban government saying hands off an event to go, back a little bit on black wives matter, the criticism that has been leveled against them these three young women who picked up ferguson saying we understood what was happening was happening because the continuation of the exoneration is reminiscent of some of this stuff i discussed in black detroit because we have the same situations when they invaded your home in 2010 the police brutalized him after the whole rob became thing its amazing you could categorize people and see them in such apag despairing light. We have the Mainstream Media that is sent sensitive enough to our concern into the inequities that exist that is so prevalent in our society. So black wives matter is a continuation of the struggle and resistance that has been a part of the American Experience in particular since day number oneh these individuals would cry out. We have yet to have the kind ofn film where we can capture what john brown was all about. What about the individuals that rode with him into the ones survivor from harpers ferry. Host this is an email from tallness as we approach the 50th anniversary of the 12th street uprising this month i would like to know does professor boyd recalled theer he murder a month before whether he had any connection with theie victims relatives and in august the movie detroit will opench which recounts the motels murderers and does the professor have any advanced professions about the film and then tallness says i was 14 in 1967, had a Detroit Free Press paper route o which allowed me on the streets in the Early Morning hours while the curfew was in effect. It was a time i will never forget and inspired a dedication to social justice. Bit thats quite a bit. First it is filled with probably the most Significant Development out of this is the film. A very fine Filmmaker Academy award winner. I mean one of the things aboutr the film, what im hearing thath i havent seen the film, the trailer is all over the place. It opens on august 4 and focuses on the motel incident. First you have to kind of contact to wise the rebellion itself or you can ge where you o things whether it was a riot orl a rebellion. Those of us that are very much a part of the period of time. 1943 it was a blackandwhite thing. One of the things i was living in new york in 1985 when they put together a classic study in terms of the documentary. They find that he came to newond york. It still resonates strongly. It was to bring about some changes in terms of this but that is a another discussion. What did they think about the film coming out, it happened two days after the uprising on 12 and a claremont. Some 80 odd people were arrested, the community was outraged and the next thing you know, Michael Lewis they called him, he was the culprit and was targeted as the individual but sparked the whole rebellion. We have a whole movement to protect from him. But the other thing on july 25. I talked to my friend riverbend dan aldrich and bringing in his discussion. What hes doing with the whole cnn documentary that kind of zeroes in on what he is all about. July 25 is where the incident occurred you have three black men who were killed. No justice was going to come as a result of this. They were not going to be tried or convicted and thats when the peoples tribunal was developed. All the activists and the community got involved to say we will have our own justice brought about. It was shot in boston and we have to see how true this is. Theres going to be a screening at the museum and i will get it first hand from some who have seen it at that time and get their commentary before august 4 because they are focusing on a number of events. Love the love 50 years and 100 things. We had all these different kinds of goodies going on around of rebellion and of course the filr is a kind of centipede. Its not detroit 67 or rebelliol so some people are concerned about the title and that there may be infringing some of theira creative efforts that we have hijacked their profits but have you but thats to be seen. If you havent provided any kin. Of you have to check it out and see this film is all about. Host what was your role in the 67 riots rebellion . First of all as a reporter to analyze it and later on i was going to use it in the classroom. I had been at wayne state for two years after malcolms assassination. I was on my way to new york whe he was assassinated working a short time at the factories my next stop was malcolm and then he was gone so i went to Wayne State University, 26 years ofdet age a little tour than the other students. Almost by default by this made the leader on campus, some 65 when i arrived at college, and of course its different there were 11 colleges at Wayne State University. There was kind of an alternative to the traditional liberal arts curriculum i and if they assess things were going to be very significant in my life as well as the humanities and sciences. How you bring this together is how i do the same thing in my life. You have the activists. How do you bring these together and you can see the commonality of a kind of feed off of each other and there is a continuum so they instill that notion i try to put in my whole practicei to be out there involved in such a way. I am at Wayne State University and one of the concerns i have is freeing up Michael Lewis because they blamed him for sparking this whole rebellion so i brought different activists at Wayne State University. I had only been there for two years but the two years of being there they have a curriculum you can do what you want to do. Thats when i taught the first malcolm x. Class. It was so popular that it then spread all over the whole campus so i have like 150 students and they had to bring some help. All these individuals came to my classroom and helped me control because i didnt have a pa. They promote them and each year it accumulated more and more students and they got to the point where we had Something Like 250 students so we got so im wielding to bring some help and my wife was indispensable at that time with two or threeof tu others with the extension of the university. Wayne State University have ar problem. E they gave them opportunity toy e pick it guest at that time she wasnt a colleague. She invited me to teach a class there and at that time she would become my wife and all the struggles from a literary standpoint if i can get it past her it is smooth sailing. How long have you been married . . Guest we were married in africa. If it is an opportunity to bring the resources we have in a way that we can make sure the person thats in particular because figuring out me. That was the first one she contact with me. I was still in detroit at that time and she says there is a possibility we are going to do this book. Every summer i took off and went to parts of africa for tenook of straight years. Those are individuals that are connecting points. Had the six pack that was an opportunity for all of these here powerful intellectuals from all over the world to come together and continue to kind of you know the spirit the previous fifth, the fifth was in manchester. Black power you know the whole six pack these World Congress is a black people coming together from all over the world and so that is what happened with six pack. In 1974, it was out of that particular gathering of ideas that i was able to feed into the book on the former portuguese colonies in africa. Mozambique and list here from ab in toledo. I have two concise questions please. One, what does a phd that i heard you say . What is your second question . I would like him to suggest that peter if you do not mind. Lets get your questions out on the table and then we will get him to answer both. All right. There are a few peter. The next one is what is your insight on the quote coming from the owner of the new york fire chief and the other one is this, given the collaboration between the Islamic Community and the Christian Community and what is your insight relative to the outcome of the millions of dollars and lastly given the fact that all the valuables from the world trade fiasco, horrific as it was, were not there when the building collapsed and the examination went down. What occurred . Thank you very much. I think we have the point ab. He brought in pull the plug, million man march and in his view, the valuables were removed from the World Trade Center prior to 9 11. And the connection between islam and christians with the million man march. The first one is the easiest. The phb is a bachelor of philosophy. That is all. You can bachelor of science you can have you know and bachelor of arts and you can have a bachelor of philosophy. And that is what it was good that is what the college offered. My attraction had less to do with any kind of degree. It had much to do with the opportunity just to get into a certain kind of intellectual community and it had a reputation of being attracting it was the nonconformist, the hippies and stuff like that. And that is essentially what i found there. I felt right at home and very comfortable. And those people who would nontraditional ideas about curriculum, about how to conduct, how to pull their lives together. So all of those things appealed to me and later on i saw this phb and i said what is that all about . I raised the same question you know what is a phb . Over the years my send my resume out, people say they correct it and they think i meant to say phd. Well no, i meant phb. That is a correction that should be made that i do not have a phd. And the history of that goes back to 1967 again peter. Back when i made a decision at that point. What are you going to do with your academic career . Because coming out of Wayne State University in 1969, i was kind of a late bloomer. But still, opportunities existed there. One of the opera one of the opportunities was to get a full ride but i was all ready teaching at the wednesday university as an undergraduate. When you have 8000 does come in it looks a lot better than 8000 so i was also very comfortable at Wayne State University. I was at home. I was among my comrades you know, the many of them and there was a five or six year difference but it was no big deal at that time. Many of those young people became my students and they are my lifelong friends and my colleagues. Just the other day two or three of them called me when they heard i was going to be here on cspan. And they said we are going to look at you and check you out herb. It had remarkable careers and so it is probably the most fulfilling aspect of all of this. That you touch those individuals and put them on a path the same way they have put me on a path. And it goes back to the other part or at least one part of the callers concern. In terms of the million man march. Of course i participated in that. And i wrote about it. And i felt good about it. And in the same way i feel good about black lives matter because that was a kind of iteration of this year kind of community and expression coming from the black experience. You are translating that in a political way. And i think that is what happened with the whole million man march. Just bringing together some of the same ideas that robert allen when we did the brother man, the odyssey black men in america. The million man march was a larger version of that. A much larger version. And of course the ideas coming from farrakhan and that particular formation coming together. End of cost we applaud him for that. Youre always concerned about when you have a major moment. You had to capitalize on them in such a way that you may get meaning beyond that particular assembly . What you gather from that . What are the takeaways from that particular coming together . And you hope that it begins to instill in individuals who participate in terms of their all in power that they possess as an individual. It is kind of putting your company for like you are lost and outside of it open now you are part of it. Note you have a gathering of all these brothers mainly with the million man march. And subsequent developments after that with women as well as the family fortune think is even more meaningful. When you bring the whole family together for that. But youre going to start with some of the problems that black men had in society both among themselves as well as with society in general. And i think that was useful. I saw a different kind of attitude expressed by black men as a result of the march. The respect. He began to dispense you know with their loved ones. Their children. The kind of reaching out. Peoplehood which is important because you do not have those opportunities too often. The nation of islam was pivotal in all of that. Louis farrakhan, we salute him for that. And of course, the understand that islam you know how that plays into a lot of this. Of course when malcolm was beginning to, when he peeled away from it and began to move in a more orthodox way, you know with islam. It caused a little consternation for half the people who understood that no one could do the story like malcolm in terms of the cosmology of africanamerican people. A sense of beginning, you know malcolm could do that like no ones business. And that then began to move away from that. That is not the power of orthodox islam. This he began to move in a more orthodox way and i think that nina, we kind of create differences with members who were still left in the nation of islam as well as his particular, when he was beginning to express about elijah mohammed. Because a lot of people who were in the nation of islam still hold him as the holy apostle. And they have every right to do that. People are left to their own particular icons and idols and what have you. Malcolm became mine. And i held true to a lot of what i felt kind of the unimpeachable integrity that the express. And i try to see his life as an example of on. So in terms of moving towards orthodox islam and stuff like that, you know, in terms of ones religious preferences and of course private and what you want to do. Ive always had a lot of respect for all of the religions because i have gone through most of them myself. I think i am a bornagain marxist live. Leave it at that. Was not 11 was 9 11 an inside job . I am not sure what exactly is asking. Basically i think he is a 9 11 conspiracy theorist. I have very little to add to that. You have all of these Different Things out there. I was close to and he was certainly concerned that there was an elements that were not fully disclosed and to the total community and that a day of reckoning was upon us. You talk about the conspiratorial aspects. I usually run for the hills. [laughter] unless i have some solid information to refute or dispute any particular i mean we have this, historically we have had the peter. We look back and look at american history. I mean there almost every. We have had a situation where spiritual real aspects get in there. Sometimes we dont even need a conspiracy to bring about the results of things. It is just an accumulation of forces. They begin to reach a Critical Mass in such a way that there is no other outlet for expression for the particular outcome. In a logical way. We Start Talking about while he was in back of it. But no concrete information. No investigation, no right to be. Well, our conversation with herb boyd will continue. As we do with every author may have on indepth, we ask him or her what influences they have had in their ives. What books in their lives. But before that we want to give me a little bit of a tour of harlem. That is where herb boyd listed. He has written two books about harlem. This is one that he edited. Going to show you this done by neil shoemaker. Harlem, heritage chores. This was several years ago on booktv. He gives us a bit of a literary tour of harlem and he is still doing these stores. It is harlem heritage chores. This is neil shoemaker and our conversation will continue after this. What we are going to do today is take very walk through harlem on 1920s harlem. Were going to go from here to 125th street all the way north all up to 1 38 and then west and background Seventh Avenue back down going south to 131st street and then coming back to 135th. Here we stand, 138th street between lenox avenue and fifth avenue. And as you can see on this site Marcus Garvey, politics first public leader in the United States in the year 1916. Many people feel that the thing that gave birth to the harlem renaissance was the opportunity of center held in 1944 by the urban league with Charles S Johnson put together then they would have the opportunity awards dinners where they would celebrate various artists of the 1920s. These buildings here are the offices of the urban league. This is something you know this building here at 267 west 136 street. There they are celebrating the fact that on this site have a building known as a huge apartment that was made available to their men, nugent and other writers of the period. [inaudible] [background sounds] now, it all started in 1938. The honorable Joseph C Wells really really loved chicken and waffles. He told his wife when we open a restaurant with that on the menu. And she said you like it everybody else dont like you. Nobody will buy it. And he said give it away for free for a little while. So they started to give it away for free. The community fell in love with it. People started buying it. They are chicken and waffles all over the country lets start with connie, this is one of the guys because it did not allow africanamericans to go in and have a good time. They would have four shows a wonderful floor shows that were precursor to broadway hits a black and blue and so on. It is right here. On top of this you have also the lafayette theater. Performers that would play the lafayette theater, they would all wait outside in front of that tree under the leaves of the tree hoping to get paid rubbing the bark of the tree as they look to get paid for their performances. And in 1941 they chop the tree down. Several people were there, the mayor, there was a big ceremony. Now guess where the stump of that tree exists . On the stage of the Apollo Theater. So when you go to the Apollo Theater yozi the performers come out. Before they go to the microphone thereof the log. Here we have 168 w. 133 street. This is known as it was a legendary speakeasy. It was located down the basement of this particular brownstone. Now when i first started to do research on the speakeasy i went to schaumburg intend to read things. And they mention was 68 west 133 street. And they changed the name to the log cabin. So here i am at 133 street looking for 168. And i see the original log cabin still here. Amazing it is now a church as you can see. In 1933, the story goes that Billie Holiday came here to try out as a dancer. But unfortunately she was not the best dancer. When the club owners said you are not the best of dancers, why dont you try singing . She takes the microphone and she sings. And realized she is as beautiful unusual voice. And she is brought on to sing here more than once. She becomes a regular here and the great record producer john hammond from Columbia Records hears her and puts it on wax for the first time. So it is known that Billie Holiday got her start here. Thank you. [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] so herb boyd, James Baldwin, would he recognize harlem today . I think so, parts of it. He was more interested in the people i think. I think that would capture his attention first and foremost. Less to do with buildings and the general environmental changes in all of the communities. But he would be interested in talking to the people. And what are they saying and how they feel about different issues out there. I know the last time he visited harlem was like 1986. And he died in 1987. Yes 87, the year before his death he came to harlem and had a series of interviews at that time. I think at least two interviews at that time with major publications. He talked about you know what are you seeing, what is different, what is new and how do you feel about things . He was expressing at that time he saw you know the general change that was going on in the community from housing standpoint, beyond the commercial. The commercial residential thing has always been an issue in harlem. He talked about gentrification. He was concerned about the gentrification at that time but he was always in a patient individual. He could see down the road and around corners like no other person. Anticipated a letter changes that were coming in harlem at the time. And they were inevitable and there was little we can do about a lot of them. But more than anything peter i think he had a connection to sing the general attitude of people. And that, did that change from one generation . Didnt feel a sense of outrage . He always thought that to be a black american is to be daily full of outrage in terms of what was going on with the treatment that we incurred in this country. But i think it was a combination of looking at this rate is not the same. I used to look down here is in this particular bookstore, it is no longer there. I am looking at this here big highrise going on, and the Apartment Building where used to live. Those things are immediately understood. You can see that, that is a change that strikes you right away. But even deeper than that is to find out the mood of the people. That is where change lives. You mentioned during the break that you know neil shoemaker. Oh yeah. He is just a remarkable tour guide. Someone who has really been in touch with that community in a way that he can transfer when he understands about harlems history to a group of strangers. You know, people who have no idea what is going on. They may have a semblance of this or that in terms of an individual episode or an experience. But he has a way of elaborating on that and contextualizing it. Making it live and breathe in a fresh way for people who have a spark of interest. If you have just a spark of interest, that is all he needs. He will ignite that. He has done it for my classes on several occasions. I teach a class and history of harlem and i often call on him and he is an expert on welcome as well. So he takes us to the various locations and hear the compliments and supplements what i do in the classroom. I am sure that the reviewers must have been very much entertained by the expanse of his knowledge and the way he conveyed that experience. Who would you go to for a tour of your hometown in detroit . What individuals . I mean is there a shoemaker out there . We have some shoemakers out there. Matter of fact there is one young man so i hope to be in touch with who has done, jermaine jordan. He did a similar thing there detroit. Go to the various landmarks you know, where Frederick Douglass met john brown, here is where vinnies barn was in terms of the abolitionist and underground railroad. Here is where fanny richards you know who was the first black schoolteacher, here is her marker out here on lafayette in regards. He has that down pat. There are a few others who i will turn to in my daytoday conversations. I must be to dan aldrich every day. He has his finger on the pulse of things there. Both politically and culturally. And that is important. You know sometimes you can have things political, but individuals have no understanding of the cultural arena. What is happening with the theater, what is happening with the literary or what is going on with the music . So to have someone like danny there who has this kind of comprehension and exhausted understanding of what is happening on a daytoday basis in the city. It is very important because it keeps me abreast you know on the current developments there. Because in black detroit, i thought of in fact to 1701. I go back to mr. Cadillac himself. Before you have the car and everything, right . Is a long 300 year voice that i take with black detroit. But much of it is like history in the past and not so much the current. And that is where i rely on individuals like ron luckett who has of the northwest Activity Center they are or joann watson or charles these are people that keep me abreast of what is going on. What is on folks mind other than what i can read in the metro times, the free press or keith owens or edwards have to say in the michigan chronicle. If you like to participate in our conversation this afternoon with altar peter slen 7488200 and Central Eastern and 7488201 in the Mountain Time zones. You can also contact us on social media. We will put those up as we go. Lets talk to kristin in los angeles. You are on with herb boyd. Hello professor herb boyd. Thank you for your work. I am a phd candidate at ucla with an emphasis on africanamerican female intellectuals taking other back to david walker with meyer stewart. Im curious beside your mother and your wife, if you can talk about women who have influenced you either historically in terms of their writings and or women that you were active with in terms of dealing with activism in terms of your life. And i do not know if you noticed kristin when we were playing some of herb boyd favorite books, one of those is daughters of africa edited by margaret busby. Are you familiar with that . Si also knows he put on their anything, which i have course echo. [laughter] all right, thank you. Well, kristin do you have an hour . [laughter] i do a column each week and ultimately i go from significant black men and women that are unheralded. You need to know a little bit about. The current one if you get the news he can brody go online and check it out is a woman named fanny peck she was the wife of william peck who is a minister. They arrived in detroit in the 1920s. They got involved in the religious community. Her claim to fame is that she is one of the instigators and founders of the housewives league. The National Housewives league of america. And that is strawberry because of my william for many many years was a you know, she was a domestic servant. And of course, these housewives in terms of organizing themselves and beginning to make a mark you know because they were ignored by the union move and stuff like that how do we bring together our own issues . The very special demands that we can make. And fanny peck was in the leadership role of that. Early we talked about fanny in terms of her being a pioneering educator in that country but what i do in the amsterdam news each week is that i go back and forth between important black woman, important black men. I have accumulated now a stack like that and they say herb you need to do that it would be a nice book. And you know the book ideas but i think it is important because we have to do that on a week to week basis. And you dont have to wait for a book to come out here but here are these individuals and i just, i am making these discoveries myself about a lot of black woman who just have been just tireless and unflinching. They are concerned about liberation, about the whole defeating, particularly the attack, the abuse, the Domestic Violence and Barbara Renzi has a book out there that i think is just extraordinary on ella baker. In terms of the role that she played with the Civil Rights Movement. She is a very pivotal individual in bringing together so many ideas. Across the years though, from a literary standpoint i can go all the way back to Francis Ellen Watkins harper. Colleen hopkins. You can go to neal hurston, and petri that did the book 116 street. All of the women around margaret alexander. And in terms of age of the sum of these women are brought to the forefront. One of my colleagues, mary helen washington out of detroit i mean, these have is that we lost last year. And we talk about maya angelou, you say nothing, Toni Morrison right down to current crop of black women writers you know coming out of africa and to say nothing of Jacqueline Woodson was one of my colleagues you know at the harpercollins. So we have got these black women writers, thinkers and activists out there. And the whole black lives matter movement. These are very devoted, dedicated black woman who right at the epicenter and development of new concern about fighting for civil and human rights in our society. But we can see, there is a long history of that you know some of the black woman out there that i profile each week, whether theyre coming from the political arena, cultural arena, whether they are in the literary or the artistic circles, we have been there. And they need to be a little bit more attention given to them. Well, from your 2000 book autobiography of a people. He writes that if rosa parks was the mother of the Civil Rights Movement than ella baker was the godmother. There you go ella baker was just you know and professor the kind of satellite of individuals around her. It is always important you know when you look at somebody and say this is the biography of soandso. When lewis talks about the boys, unite you want to know a little bit more about some of these other individuals that were in and around peter slen i think thats where some of it comes in for the better historians. They want to bring some of these significant individuals into the spotlight. And a little bit about the niagara movement. All about some of these other players you know who otherwise are unknown. You dont know anything about that. That is what gerald horne does so well. But it is beyond that. You know who are some of these, who is Angelo Herndon . You have the other individuals and is one of the ways you know and earlier color said something. You know peter in my life i have had im going to depart a little bit. I want to make my surrogate brothers get into this doctor John Henry Clarke is one and of course the late Percy Ellis Sutton and gordon parks. All of these individuals who i call my surrogate father is an opportunity to work with i mean he took one autobiography of a people, most gordon wrote the forward for that one. Percy wrote the forward to the other book you mentioned in terms of the life and times of sugar ray robinson. And of course with ruby we did we shall overcome. In one take peter, that narration that accompanies the book, they did that in one take it shows attend a professional that they can bring to a particular assignment. It was so funny because i would cover press conferences and all of these here the clambering, everything around the daily news and what have you. It was all over and people would say herb, give any questions . And they said what he is special attention . And is invested 10 amanda davis was. He was an insignificant reporter from the amsterdam news that singled out from all of these here other journalists out there but he had that kind of human touch about him and of course with gordon, doctor clark you know the last two years of doctor clarks life you know i was right there with him from 1996 to 1998. He had lost his fight but not his mission. We worked together on a book called the Middle Passage. Which captures that holy spirit of being dragooned from out of africa and put on these slave ships and brought across the atlantic ocean. Tom feeling spent 25 years and at the end of his days he approached doctor clark. By that time doctor clark had lost his vision and everything. So he called me up to work with him. I was just so blessed to have the opportunity to sit with doctor clark. He would put together 100 pages despite this he would put together 100 page manuscript where they would say this has to be trimmed down to 20 pages. So that was my responsibility to come in and work with him to kind of compress, condenses 100 page narrative he pulled together. The text for the book. And so that exists now as the Middle Passage for him. So doctor clark is one of my surrogate fathers along with gordon and percy. Lets hear from crane in louisiana. Good afternoon to you. Good afternoon and thank you so much professor herb boyd for all of the work you have done. I have a fun question for you. What are your top three bucket list items and tell us why . The top three . Dont do that to me. What is on your bucket list these days . Oh my goodness thats right insane. I mean lets see. First and foremost is that we have a book out called black detroit. And at the top of that list is to make sure that i make all the rounds they are in human living in such a very interesting and absolutely thrilling way an author often dreams appeared and i appreciate that i have had such a team around me certainly near the they volunteer their services spread the word. That is so hard lifting and reporting to know that that kind of reception is occurring. So if i have a bucket list of the top it is to make sure of that i live up to what my team is doing and making his appearances. The book signing, we get quite a few coming up. And im back to detroit again. Were you going to be . Three different locations beginning with the museum. The africanamerican museum there and of course then doing anything with the book festival. That is the first event on 16 july. Then on the 18th i will be at the Museum Talking about the 50 Year Anniversary of the rebellion of 67 and probably the most, the largest of that would be on the 20th i will be at the northwest Activity Center there in conversation with Rochelle Riley was economist at the free press. We have an opportunity on those three different dates to spread the word, get the book out there and then after that down the trail is a bunch of other appearances i have to make. Permitting promoting the book is the top concern i have at this point. Then after that you know you started about other book projects. My goodness i have at least three i am working on now including a book on the harlem renaissance im doing for third world press. To celebrate their 50th anniversary of the press. And was an outstanding activist in the Harlem Community. The foundation, they asked me to edit a collection of his writings and what a phenomenal writer and activist he was. Probably understood affairs like nobodys business in this country. He was very close to gil noble. His television show, like it is. So working on that book as well as trying to put together the daytoday activities with the amsterdam news. That continues to be top. And that i have my classes i have to deal with my students and i love my students. I am hoping that we come back in the fall, i am not sure my situation is going to be. Because the book is getting such attention. I never thought that you can go home again and such a fantastic way peter. I was concerned about that. In doing a book on black detroit because i left in 1985 in one way. And the same when it baldwin left harlem in one way. But in another way you can never leave. You know you take that cultural and political and baggage with you no matter where you go. And there was just a matter of going back and flushing out those memories. You know somebody says how long did it take you to write that book . And i say i have been writing this book my whole life. And it has been accumulating there just waiting in the back. Waiting for an opportunity to spring forward and to have like an editor like tracy and an agent like marie and a wife like elsa, it made the possibilities absolutely imminent. So there i am slisten to a viewer in detroit. This is jean in detroit. Hello. How are you . Thank you cspan for coming to detroit. I hope it is not too long when you come back again. Herb boyd, and he never talked a lot about the classes at wayne state. I was one of your former students and if you can, you can elaborate a little more on that. But i would really like you to talk about the league of revolutionary black workers. They finally got the news about some of the current things happening in detroit, particularly with the foreclosures, the water shut offs the grand theft bargain some of us are calling. And funds from the rest the city to the midtown downtown. And i want to thank you so much. Two things gene. [inaudible] it has been closed a long time. I am currently a Real Estate Agent and on the board of directors for the Detroit Association of realtors. We have been pressing half for the old ordinance to be reenacted. It has been on the books for 30 years. Gene given detroits renaissance and some would say, how is business for a Real Estate Agent . It depends on what color you are and what company you work for. And where it is you are doing your business. If it is beyond 7. 2 is pretty lousy. Is currently being invested by if you are inside of the 7. 2 are in the suburbs and the complexion is good for business can be adequate. Thank you, sir. Well, and another part of genes resume, beyond being a former student but a very active cause. In the 1967 to about 1977. A 10 year period in which he was actively engaged in bringing about change in detroit, principally, as the editor of the south and newspaper there, he picked up where john watson and harry clark and art johnson has done previously and gave it that same kind of outlook. You know workers and one class conscious worker, that is a slogan or model. Gene carried on tradition and made the paper resonate beyond the campus and connecting it with the community. The same time i try to straddle into what they say in the grassroots and the foot in the ivory tower. Make sure that these communities come together and gaining the wealth of the resources that it could bring and gene was on the front line of the. He was on the ramparts of the struggle in those days and i have appreciated his friendship over the years as i appreciate his call today because he has to resurrect a few things and of course i have a pretty extensive discussion of that in black detroit. Matter of fact old visit gene talked about as far as black studies at Wayne State University, because it was a hotbed of political activism. On the way back to the 60s with that is a swahili word for this was both pertinent on campus and offcampus. Many ended up being part of the revolutionary union movement, revolutionary black workers. All of these here concentration the work of activism. When i worked at dodge made many individuals who later on became preventable leaders of the league, where my workers. I worked with them at the plant. Moving around dodge main particularly general baker and chuck and ron. Then they hooked up with other people and of course a number of very important women. Helen jones, russell and all of these individuals that were involved in the movement of the time. Jean cunningham was in that mix. So all of the things he is talking about i am sure he can put together a very interesting narrative on his life and his connection with some of these here very pivotable movements at that time. List here from clayton and las vegas. I want to thank you for all of the work you do. One thing i want to mention. I would like you to elaborate on this. In my opinion, why a gentleman that belongs there on the Mount Rushmore if you will of the black struggle in america would help to bring about change and i have not heard anyone. Guest this yet. Barry gordy junior. In work that was done at Motown Records. Whatever you think about detroit you had to think about motown. And malcolm was the front lines during which he was, Martin Luther king certainly give his life. I think Motown Records and the music and the political statements, they change market music than people realize. There was a certain activism and i think as a nation, moton was on west grand boulevard. As time went on music was nice and every wanted to dance in there was a time where the white people physically in the south, the parents would not let their kids by the records so barry was smart at that he would put cartoons in different pictures and things on album covers that were not the artists because the parents would not know that they will black artists. And later on to 67 and 68, no society is changing and things are becoming more will rise and assassinations they never comes marvin gaye, stevie wonder, all the people started to do political songs. And in the midst of the turmoil of the 60s, you can turn on that television tonight you will see that supremes, temptations in the fourth house. They were reaching out to change the society and i have been fortunate to travel around the world. Im an entertainer. And i performed in over 70 countries and ive done a lot of motown tributes on speed ive gone to countries where people could not even speak english but they know the words to my girl and what is going on and Smokey Robinson is music and stevie and marvin and your first conduction to the struggle in america came to the music. There was so enthralled with the music they wanted to find out more about the artist and then they found out that they were black people from detroit and it led to the struggle that black people all over america were going through. Especially in the south. And i would like to hear your opinion on the influence of him and montana. Before you hang up, tell us your full name and what kind of entertaining you do. My name is clint hooker. I was born in 1958, i am in entertainment. I have been on broadway, shows invisible spirit i sang with some of the motown acts. Particularly with some temptations groups. As years went on, they were a turnover of people. The former members would have their own tribute groups. People like chadwick damon harris and dennis edwards. That is what i do. Are you working in vegas right now . Yes, sir. Ive done many shows in vegas. I still perform to this day. I still travel around the world to this day. Everywhere i go, ive been all over africa, australia, new zealand, japan, malaysia. Ive been all around the world. Ive been to europe more times i can count. But one thing is whenever i go anywhere, you are to save his people show up with these tshirts and the big afros. Motown is just so big it is like the elephant in the room and nobody talks about with the civil rights. Barry gordy had an album of Martin Luther kings many people dont know he had a label specifically designed for those spoken word records. Not music. Im so proud of it but doctor boyd i would like to hear you speak on this. As soon as you finish. Herb boyd. Thank you clayton. Smokey robinson, i get what he was saying. I second that emotion. I think he stressed very well, the articulation layer in the energy and enthusiasm is compelling. We should tell him that theres a picture of barry gordys former home in your book. 918 boston boulevard. Check it out. Love detroit, i capture a lot of the. Maybe not as expensive as some of the other things because there has just been done and done and done again. I think the color is exemplary of that in terms of people understanding the importance of motown. Obviously, some of those things he is mentioned have not been absorbed as they should be in terms of the label and the concern. But even with film, going beyond after the left detroit in 1972 and got involved in hollywood, unit with the whole mahogany with diana ross. All of that is an important part of the legacy in history. I do not go into too much of that since it has been done so well elsewhere. Particularly like marvin gaye, with divided soul, i think it is still one of the most important books because even i you are talking about marvin gaye you are talking about a number of other elements about motown also. And what it meant in terms of how he pulled that together. How barry gordy, what he did to be loved was a very important autobiography that barry did. And it is hard to get past that. You know you can maybe cut into some of those sections where you know he did not fully can find some gaps in their and feed into it. And maybe express your own particular experience as the car has done in terms of understanding the evolution of Motown Records. Email. Alvin brown. Mr. Boyd when we speak about the thoughts, words and deeds of key people in our history and our times, and difficulty conveying and relating to the knowledge because ive learned of them through their deeds and my personal observations of them. How can you differentiate between what those people do as human beings and what they expound upon and list as the core of the organizations ideals, sort of like people saying do what i say, forget what i do. Also relate this to what rappers and hiphop people are promoting which is a promotion also of gang lifestyle and black on black violence. I need two hours. It is a very interesting and complicated. The question. I do not know if i can do any justice in this short amount of time but let me say this about in terms of commitment, what they say in terms of word and deed. Those for me are inseparable. Someone says no we talk about the example of malcolms life. He is someone who that his house wasfirebombed but nonetheless had made a commitment