Transcripts For CSPAN2 My Own Words 20161112

[inaudible conversations] good morning. Welcome. My name is luise welby president Acc National Capital Region region i look at me today. On behalf of the chapter i think i can speak for everyone here about exactly how excited and how honored we are to have Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg and former solicitor general ted olson here with us today. [applause] i also want to thank so much James Williams who is a former member of our board of directors , jim vela who was her vp for programming and eileen. Our executive director for all the work that they have put into this event and they deserve a round of applause. [applause] and so with that i want to turn things over to james and he will do the introductions. Thank you. Thank you for this very kind words. Its a tremendous honor to be here today to introduce our guests and its always difficult when you have guests of this caliber to find the right adjectives in terms to describe them. They are few that come to mind. Titans, dedicated, principled, dynamic, engaging, brilliant, thought leaders and pioneers. What has been the most personally inspiring for me though has been their role as civil rights leaders whether its to fight for racial or gender equality, Marriage Equality or freedom from discrimination based on Sexual Orientation or gender identification. Both ted and Justice Ginsburg have a assured across all these fronts that are country continues to honor this progress for equal justice for all. Justice ginsburg was founded by president clinton as associate justice of the Supreme Court taking her seat in 1993. Prior to her appointment she served from 1980 to 1983 and up into the United States court of appeals for the columbia circuit. The poorer parts of the banshee was professor of law at Rutgers Law School from 1963 to 1972 and columbias call law school. She has also served on the faculties of the south park summoner of American Cities in the for the humanistic studies and a visiting professor at many universities in the United States and abroad. In 1978 she was a fellow at the center for advanced study and behavioral scientists at stanford california. In 1972 professor ginsburg was instruments and launching the womens rights project of the American Civil Liberties union. Her commitment to civil rights and racial quality and gender equality goes back many decades. Lastly but not basically she has the distinction of having the best nickname in his trip in a Supreme Court justice the notorious rbg. [laughter] that wilson is a partner of the washington d. C. Office office pretend was solicitor general of the United States during 2001 to 20041981 to 1984 he was assistant attorney general in charge of the office of Legal Counsel in the department of justice. He is argued 62 cases before the Supreme Court as prevailed in over 75 . Let me say that again, 75 of those arguments. A remarkable achievement. His cases involve separations of powers federalism Voting Rights the First Amendment equal protection and due process clauses sentencing jury rights punitive damages takings of property the Commerce Clause telecommunications the 2000 president ial election, i think we remember that one. Bush versus Gore Campaign finance mcconnell versus sec and Citizens United samesex mark it marriage and other federal constitutional statutory questions. I am grateful for all they have done. The end of the chat Justice Ginsburg will take a few questions from the audience and will have a chance for you to interact. Without further ado Justice Ginsburg and ted olson. [applause] thank you james and thank you louise. You can imagine what a pleasure it is pardon . Is the microphone working . Can you hear me . You can imagine what a pleasure it is for me an advocate to be able to ask questions of a Supreme Court justice. [laughter] however i suspect you will hear her turn the tables on me very soon after we get started. And at the risk of repeating a couple things that james said about Justice Ginsburg i want to add a word or two of my own before we start our dialogue. I dont know where the fireplace is. [laughter] as james m. Sure felt the toughest thing about introducing some unlike Justice Ginsburg is tempting to say either too much because she has accomplished so much and has led such a distinguished life in our society and our culture or too little because you are do you know who she is and what she has done and you are here to hear from her and not from me. I cant resist the opportunity to say a couple of words about this remarkable woman, her remarkable career and a life that we all admire. I understood this event sold out in one hour and 15 minutes. That is attributed to the fact people have such Great Respect for you Justice Ginsburg. I was limited via five boards in a couple of them came up in jamess introduction i would say commitment, courage, passion and to me most of all warrior. I would like to explain that. Justice ginsburg older sister died when she was six, her mother struggled with cancer throughout her High School Years and passed away the day before her graduation. A very daunting beginning for her. She attended cornell university, was elected to five beta and graduated first among the women in her class. Then harvard law school, one of nine women and a class of 500. When her fellow student has been Marty Ginsburg whom she met on a blind date was diagnosed with cancer, she attended class for both of them, took notes, typed her husbands papers and cared for him and their infant daughter. When he recovered and took a job in yudin new york city she transferred to Columbia Law School pitch he became the first woman to be elected to two major law reviews, columbia and harvard. I saw the picture in the book the rbg book im going to mention in a moment. Two women out of 60 on the harvard law review and they have your picture equally balanced of the two women among the 60 men. First in her graduating class at columbia was turned down for United States Supreme Court clerkship because Justice Felix frankfurter as the New York Times reported issue is a woman today she was discouraged she remained undaunted. He is a professor the second woman to join the law faculty at rutgers she founded the womens rights law reporter and later shared the womens rights project. She became the first tenured professor at Columbia Law School where she authored a book on judicial procedure in sweden. After mastering swedish. Somewhere early in our relationship she saw the name olson and she thought maybe that might be swedish and she asked if i could speak swedish. I had to point out that i was norwegian and i didnt speak swedish or norwegian. [laughter] she later transferred the swedish code of several procedure into english. Now, civil procedure is tough enough but in swedish . As an advocate for womens rights and gender equality she change the world page he personally argued six cases in the Supreme Court winning all but one and one a summary reversal in another case without even an argument. In cases that she once started an avalanche for gender equality. Justice ginsburg served for 14 years on the d. C. Circuit and was the second woman after Sandra Day Oconnor appointed to the Supreme Court. She replaced Justice Byron white she is now the most senior of three female justices on the court. Just a word or two more preshe was diagnosed with colon cancer in 1999 and underwent surgery, radiation and chemotherapy. She missed zero days on the bench. In 2005 she was diagnosed with and underwent surgery for pancreatic cancer. 12 days after that surgery she was again back in Court Hearing arguments. Her husband for over 55 years Martin Ginsburg and internationally respected professor and practitioner of tax died in 2010. She was back in court the next day. Just as he would have wanted. You will find out today that Justice Ginsburg has a wicked mischievous sense of humor, so be careful. And i can tell you from personal experience having argued over 50 cases while she was on the bench that she is as well prepared are better prepared than any jurist i have ever experienced. She is often the first justice to break the ice and ask a question. Those questions are penetrating, focused and tough and as an advocate very intimidating. So, i wanted to say those few words about you because i didnt have the opportunity to do this and i thought we would start off with that there is about to be published or it is being published you can tell us today. October 4. Who is paying attention, right . This beautiful book, my own words which has excerpts of Justice Ginsburg speeches, speeches about her, some things about Marty Ginsburg and other things like that. Its got beautiful cover and beautiful pictures in it and im going to ask you to tell me a bit or tell us a bit about the book that first of all i have to do a james did. The other book which is really fun is the notorious rbg which is a fabulous book with all kinds of fun stuff in it and little lessons about how to be Ruth Bader Ginsburg and he can think about that. You are an icon. What justice on the Supreme Court is named after a rapper my wife pointed out of the way here that Baskin Robbins was wanting to name an ice cream, is that what it was . Ben jerrys. I get the ice cream people mixed up. I will eat any of it. Ben jerrys one to name and ice cream roots paid or ginger and i heard something about, this cant be true about a praying mantis. It is absolutely true. Tell me about it. There was a praying mantis named after me. [laughter] does this praying mantis do things that other praying mantis duplex. She is wearing a caller. Tell us about this book, my own words in my own words, tell us about how it came to be and what is in it. This book was originally planned to come out after my official biography. I have two official biographers who chose the speeches and the audibles that are not look. They started writing about me in 2003 and still a work in progress so i said lets lift the order. Lets go the do the articles. This was done with my writings and in introduction by mary hoffman and quinn official biographers. They came to me in 2000. Nsaid like it or not people are going to write about you, so you might as well. So far you still trust them . Yes. You read some of those italicized introductions. They are very good. They are both very good. I saw in one of them, i cant remember which one of the books the advice he got from your future motherinlaw about marriage. From martins mother. He was the best advice i have ever received. It was on my wedding day and we were married in the home. His mother took me aside and said dear i would like to tell you the secret of a happy marriage. And the secret was, it helps sometimes to be a little tough. [laughter] and with that she handed me a pair of earplugs which were the best earplugs. That advice i followed through 56 years of a wonderful marriage and in every work place including my current job. [laughter] if something is thoughtless and unkindly said he just tune it out. It works in the Supreme Court . Yes, it does for me. What is it like to be such an icon . What does it mean to you that people know who you are, the notorious rbg. As an opera named after you and Justice Scalia and all of these things. What does that mean to you . Is it awkward or do you kind of enjoy it . I think its amazing. Now im 83 and Everyone Wants to take a picture of me. [laughter] this notorious rbg is a creation of a secondyear law student at nyu now graduated and started when the Court Announced the decision in the Shelby County case that declared unconstitutional part of the Voting Rights act of 1955. This student was displeased, angry and then she said well ive learned from someone i admire that anger is a useless emotion and it doesnt advance anything so think of something positive in the something positive was to put my 2 cents in the Shelby County case in the tumbler and it took off into the Wild Blue Yonder from there. When my law clerks heard about this tumbler they said do you know where notorious rbg comes from a set of horse i do. The notorious dig and i were both born and bred in brooklyn new york. Have you thought of writing any of your opinions in a wrap . [laughter] they are doing it on broadway now. Tell me, its so much fun i have to talk about the opera. You are a great lover of the opera and a great lover of shakespeare and we are spending a little time talking about some of these things because they are such fun things and youll have a chance to ask a probing questions about the Supreme Court. Your relationship with Justice Scalia, a lot of people are mystified by that because you were on somewhat opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. He served again on the d. C. Circuit. He wound up often on opposite sides of cases decided in the Supreme Court, sometimes Justice Scalia in such a colorful fashion with the pretty harsh in his language and yet you were great friends. How did that happen . Why were you such great friends and what does that tell us about life on the court . Our relationship should not have been surprising to people who watch the core. They would have known that Justice Scalia was exceedingly fond of Justice Brennan who was also on the opposite side in many cases and Justice Brennan usually enjoyed Justice Scalias company as i did. He has an extraordinary ability to make you smile, even laugh. When we were on the d. C. Circuit together on a threejudge panel, Justice Scalia would whisper something to me and i had all i could do to avoid laughing out loud and sometimes i have to pinch myself. People sometimes ask me what was your favorite scalia choke and i said i know what it is but i cant tell you. [laughter] and it was such fun being at the Washington National opera with him twice. And to be part of the scalia ginsburg. Some of my family and friends say why as ginsburg and scalia alphabetic way. As ted knows scalia even though he was three years younger was appointed to the court before i was and thats why it is scalia ensberg. Its a comic opera as you would expect. It will be, it had its World Premiere in castleton virginia last summer. It will have its next production at the opera festival in cooperstown new york so if you are interested you can go to the Baseball Hall of fame and go that evening scalia ginsburg. The setup, i should tell you how it came to be. Very talented young man derek wang a music major and has a masters in music decided it would be useful to learn a little bit about the law. So he enrolled in his hometown law school, the university of maryland, hes taking a constitutional law course and he is reading these dueling opinions, scalia ginsburg. He said to himself this could make a very funny opera. And i will give you just a taste of the opening pieces. It starts out with scalias rage which goes like this. That justice is blind, how can they possibly the constitution says absolutely nothing about this. And then i explained to him searching for bright Line Solutions for problems that dont have any answers but the great thing about our constitution is that like our society, it can evolve. So thats the setup. Thats roughly based on that Justice Scalia is locked up in a dark room and being punished for excessive dissenting. [laughter] and i come to help him out. I entered the scene through a glass ceiling. [laughter] and as in the magic flute i joined him for the last trial and we sing a duet. We are different, we are one, different in our approach to the interpretation of legal text but one in our fondness for each other. Our reference to the constitution and the institution we serve. And that friendship in that relationship tells us so much about how and we all could learn frum, our relationships with people who have different perspectives. Justice scalia was fond of saying that you made his opinions better because he would run them by you and correct me if im wrong, you would point out various vulnerabilities or weaknesses in his opinion and he go back and sharpen his words but he said to her precipitation because he learned this when you are together in the d. C. Circuit. He would Exchange Opinions and he respected your intelligence so much that he wanted to run them by you. I would say i was the beneficiary of that relationship more than he was. When i wrote an opinion and scalia wrote a dissent he identified all of the ross spot so every opinion of mine of the scalia dissent is much better than the first draft. He was also an excellent grammarian. Sometimes he would call me whether we were on the same side or not and point out the slips i had made and grammar. Sometimes i would call him and say why dont you tone it down . This is so strident. You were going to lose your audience. You would be more effective if you would just put down the dash a level. Most of the time he did not listen to me. I could tell from reading some of his dissent opinions particularly. Theyre there some difference between when you have to write for the court and you when you write a dissenting opinion. You explained that to me the other day. He obviously didnt temper some of the language. Im thinking of the Marriage Equality case, the two cases and so forth. You can also think of one of the 25 . Lets talk about that one. [laughter] i had forgotten about that case. [laughter] i argued that case. It was for the Virginia Military institute. I represented the commonwealth of virginia and vmi as you know everyone here knows was an allmale situation and a part of the university of virginia system. It was a relatively small component of the system and it was taught on an adversary or system is what they called it on the theory that some young men needed to be an allmale environment in order to get their bearings. To get through the route line. The rat line so the challenge was at eyelids the equal protection clause because women were and i argued that case and it was a 71 decision. I got one vote. I had six people. The chief concurred in the judgment of the opinion and you captured Justice Scalia. You do need to capture him. You mean my advocacy wasnt necessary to win and it didnt do any more than that. I was just telling a story about the aftermath of the vmi case. I had a letter from ibm i graduate saying that in his life he had met many women who were at least as tough as he was. He had a teenage daughter and was glad that she would have the opportunity if she wanted it to attend vmi. And i heard from him some six months later, i keep the letter where i could see it every time i want to be lifted up. In the letter was some tissue paper. I opened the paper and it looked like a toy soldier. The letter said, this is a pen that is given to the mother of every year by graduates at the graduation ceremony. You were one of the few people to bring these cases to challenge the statute in particular of equal rights to women. Are men. Thats right what was that like arguing those cases . We were talking via other day said it reminded me of Justice Thurgood marshall with the naacp arguing cases 2. 0 the difference but the plot was that like for you quick. I copied his strategy that he developed a lot and then you probably remember when texas realized it could not deny admission to africanamericans so it was set up as separate law school and Thurgood Marshall argued separately that the schools are so plainly an equal but when people make that comparison there is a difference that marshalls life was in danger when he would come into town to represent someone my advocacy was a challenge within was never in danger. And another difference with Racial Discrimination but when i started to argue cases endeavoring to strike down the law but there is a hard time to get that because they thought of themselves as good husbands and grandfathers and they thought women were offered nate pedestal. Justice brennan has that wonderful image that all too often that pedestal turns out to be a cage and protects women from achieving whatever they could from their godgiven talent. So getting the judges to understand that gender discrimination was bad for society. For men and women and children but none of the cases in which unrepresented that these were every day people were with the disabled people. To have a young son when he was of tender years. And apply for custody as they become the custodian. Candidates severe depression. And then committed suicide. To say im sorry this is what the idaho law says. But the great thing is that with three levels of the and a whole court. I did not get involved to the Supreme Court. This was the everyday woman and in which they conceived to be an obvious injustice. Then to have laugh Housing Allowance mathematical in dental facility man whose wife died in childbirth with the Social Security benefits to takes care of the sole surviving parent. So to think that is an obvious injustice. And we have a legal system. Day you think the nature of those cases would help you to be successful because so many came before with similar issues raised and dismissed . And you change your culture is that the nature of those cases or your advocacy . We are not there completely but it is a completely different world but you make as huge a big change. The with those cases and the woman knew all day tavern that michigan passed a law you have to be male unless your husband or father is the owner of the establishment. And today to be called a battered woman taking her to a the of breaking point the baseball bat was hit over the head and now the murder prosecution. And then the Supreme Court said that was okay. But in the decade as the 70s one case after another of the gender lines. Why . Because the society had changed of course, with the reactive institution they dont lead the way. Into exile raid the direction of change. It was already the burger court. With a whole series of cases. Those said into the 70s with the way that men are. From the womens domain. And then from 61 it was an enormous change. And then to illustrate that that my children are 10 years apart. Just before i started law school. There are very few working moms but then 10 years later when my son was born that was not unusual. There were many people in his class. Summit things working in that direction. There was the time by the time she had her last child and now for many years and in spending most of the adult life that doesnt have any child care responsibilities. That is one factor. And then to pay the tuition by that tied it was all over the world. And that the United Nations had declared all of these things and people were not traditional. So with that change that had already occurred in society. With that synergistic effect because of your leadership and what you are doing they read about those cases said they will cns justice but those teachings but then to be appointed to the United States Supreme Court. Talk about that. Tell us about Justice Oconnor when she was appointed the first woman to be at the Supreme Court and what it was like and what it meant to what came along after word. The appointment of Sandra Day Oconnor but the is not how did his aides looked. He was determined to put women of minorities in numbers but not as a curious ethnic curiosity but i have that memory. He appointed at least 25 through the district court. Cavelike to go down the history books but she was all alone over 12 years but the sign of change was imminent so is a womens bathroom inside . [laughter] now there are three women on the court of those issues were talking about there are three and not just one person or even to. I think i am the Public Perception it is so much better coming in in and out of the court to be all over the bench. One is justice soda my door the other is justice kay and. Sell onethird of the court that as you know very well i am not recall leagues are not shrinking violets and with that competition between Justice Scalia but in the macdonald case in then to say that Justice Oconnor ahoy so low that nobody calls heard justice or justice can give. [laughter] news said that mail justices were confused so what is that like for oral arguments . When i first argued encased 1983 with not very many questions and very pistes all only answer the question negative did met both. Plan is to kid give the etiquette but the question may be about a flu will plant. But with and without the presence of the lawyers or the oral argument if that takes place among uh justices before applying the oral argument . When we decided of the review we will discuss the case then. We dont often discussed uh cases but the Supreme Court is hot bench. It is easy that we have no opinions and sometimes we having gotten our own act together there are exceptions but the and this is it is very, but the conference you decide to express how you want to vote so to talk about the monday and tuesday cases and then we go round in order sometimes it is close discussion are the chief foreign another justice will say but then we go onto the next case. Of life to keep asking questions but we know you have questions out there. This is the nub pleasure for me and no questions about pending cases before the court. Please come forward. Dont be shy. Thank you for being here. You talk about the evolution of as society. Is that about the discourse . Because looking at where the world is right down. But i am very hopeful did you have to being caged the and i dance but then but they would do something or nothing for the largest society. [inaudible] thank you. Takes for being held here one of blue been involved with that really sticks out quick. But to shade of how the majority came out to. Yes. That david if. Thanks for coming today justice ginsberg. I was hoping you could share your thoughts since then there you are encouraged his navy will shares have a large steel decks society is that large. But he has an obligation to give back that i tell those loss students if you have a good paying job job, after highschool so that everybody is in full to do publicservice whether the military but still the young people with their service to the community. At tenderly age. I am a 20 year practitioner and i do have a question concerning the Shelby County case. To be living in the zero lower south so that ended the second reconstruction. But on the future civilrights legislation. But the process and there is a number of cases with the Voting Rights act. Some of them before the court that this very moment. And that makes up the headlines as well. Budget section two is harder. But as a said but try to predict that congress would change the formula. Because i cannot imagine a representative in. We had better leave it there. [laughter] but i guess with your remarks with the constitution and of the principals can change it is a na biblical sense that it can be amended. So the failure to amend the constitutional defect that it hasnt it is in the tougher constitutional system . The that has been made so hard man and has been quite a while. Thank us some of the state constitutions to go on and on. With the framework of a constitution to be that fundamental instrument of course i am disappointed of the equal rights amendment but even so if you ask me of something comparable that we dont have the constitution that begins to resemble. And somebody proposes a constitution. With prayer in the schools. Of what i a good did is not easily mended. Note as the father of four daughters thank you for your work with womens rights for my daughters to pursue what they want to do and that they are passionate about instead of what they think they ought to do. My question is for both of you i have been teaching law to engineers at the university of maryland in number of years. The demographics of changed so the great number of students are foreign. It is hard to hear. We wore out the microphone. [laughter] but then to figure out the constitution to understand that in our context. Sewed do you have any recommendations with the of fundamentals . With the recommendations on reading . We all appreciate of all the nations in the world the United States the lowest surviving constitution. So when somebody goes into a bookshop in request a copy of the french constitution to save it we dont deal with periodical literature. [laughter] but if it is different. With the system of government as that takes hold. It is not aberrational. But how did they enforce such rights . That is the highest law to apply. So it could be educational for the other students what is the place of the constitution and . Who as of last word . With the very first Supreme Court did. That they developed with judicial review for constitutionality. And then until after world war ii. And then compare the system. Thanks for spending time with us today but did your view of the inhouse counsel role has evolved. Where would you like to see that go . But what i observed is the role of the council. Ian did the responsibilities yes. And then be farmed out to the law firm. With the Pro Bono Institute and has been instrumental with pro bono representation. Josh twa 800 device how we can carry on that legacy to fight the good fight . In the easy job with asked explicit gender lines almost all of them are god but what is left so my favorite example of that whiff uh critics have the of blindfold test. And to get a wrong as often as he wouldnt get a right. So that people will know who is behind that curtain. Almost overnight to all over the country. But i think back but in the 70s it was against at t for disproportionately all of this standard creche area where worker arguing as well as the men. But that total person test at that stage stayed dropout. And if hes a deal with someone that looks like you you have a comfortable. And then you feel uneasy. But not consciously. To second get any job that want. How you will arrange your life i thought that would be easy with technology but the those who were in the Health Council together but to lead by example that you can have a home life and work life. The three Young Children and they are delighted with that. And that should be much easier than it once was. So that youre not the lone voice. [applause] thanks to our guests