Transcripts For CSPAN2 Panel Discussion On Race And Politics 20150908

Columbia university. He writes teaches and lectures on africanAmerican History medical and Public Health history urban history and the history of social movements. His book is entitled to infectious fear politics to season the Health Effects of segregation published by the university of North Carolina press in 2009 and an expiration of the political economys health urban geography and race between the late 19th century in the mid20th century but period which encompasses the jim crow era and the bacteriological revolution from me at the end of antimicrobial therapy. To his right is professor chris lebron. He received his ph. D. At m. I. T. And is the author of the awardwinning book imani perry, race and justice in our time. He has written pieces on race in america for the New York Times philosophy column and a stone into his right is that those are Nell Irvin Painter who currently lives and works in newark new jersey has an author and historian. She is the edwards professor of American History america of Princeton University and has authored several books including the history of white people africanAmerican History in its meaning and Sojourner Truth a life of cymbal preach is also a professional painter for a she works digitally and manually on artist books, most recently on art history by nell painter volume 27. Conceptual art. Professor painter received her ph. D. In history from harvard and her mfa in painting from the Rhode Island School of design. Please join me in welcoming our panelists. [applause] we are here to talk about race and politics in a time of crisis i was thinking we could begin by thinking about the current state of affairs and if we just think about the last week we have a pretty dramatic way of thinking about this moment. In the past week we have encountered the death of two black women in Police Custody under chapman who was only 18 years old and sonia bland. Surely before that the mass murder at a manual church in charleston. We celebrate it, thats probably the wrong word but remembered the anniversary of eric garners death and so much has happened to the text in between these moments. We have also had the data come out in the last week that 40 of black children live in poverty. Thats the first absolute number of black children living in poverty. We have black unemployment remaining at twice the rate of white americans etc. Etc. So i want to begin by asking the question of all of you, the question that dr. King asked in 1967 where do we go from here . I will start. I think there are some people in the audience who shared with me having lived through the 1960s and having gone through the 60s and then coming back around gives you a real sense i mean if you want to be pessimistic about it, it hasnt changed that much. Things have changed a lot but there is still as you mentioned a lot to deploy. What i would like us to do though is not to focus solely on what we have to deplore and if you were here for the earlier session please bear with me because im going to read repeat something that was said and i almost feel as if theres a conspiracy to keep us from doing our work by engaging us constantly with atrocities. As a historian and as a person who has lived many decades now i dont feel that somehow more black people are being hurt. I think we are simply hearing about it and in a very sad and perverse way that is a step forward i suppose. My real point is that we have to find psychologically, we have to find means of coming to terms with the atrocities of finding steps we can take to counter them whether its going into the street, whether its joining an organization, whether its giving money. We have to be able to take a step because to do something already gives you some space and then to continue on your own work. So, i have two things on my mind following somewhat on what nell had to say. A lot of people look around at macy black men in the white house and they see a couple of rappers who are worth half a billion dollars for purging that basketball players like lebron james being called king james and they see look, things are different. The one thing that is important there has been a lot of change for change and progress are two different things. Things can change but it doesnt necessarily mean he gets better. They can look different than they used to look like but that doesnt mean necessarily have moved forward to. I think we have actually had some progress. I think you are right about change but i think there has been progress. My comment addresses the people who say things have changed therefore so thats who the comment is addressed to and the second thing refers back to the name of this Panel Politics than the name of crisis and id like to differ a bit is by definition a crisis is a puncture or disruption of the normal. Usually its to the detriment of whoever is the subject but this has been normal for black folks were really a long time, for centuries. The only difference now is maybe now some folks are listening. The question really is technology has made it possible to hear more. If you look at the statistics police are killing more black people. This kind of thing has been the story of black america but Technology Helps us see it. An interesting way ever personal the crisis is for white americans some sense. People are finally realizing this moral depravity that regulates how black americans americans are policed and controlled and the distribution of goods. In that sense may be what we are getting is possibly a moment of genuine hope through a lot of tragedy where we finally have a home nations attention nonstop. The question is whether things change from here. I think theres something to be said about pressing on the Pressure Point in not letting up every time one of these atrocities happened hopefully it will stop soon but every time a tragedy happens we say look this is consistent with the history and we will probably have more time to talk about denial of history which is one of james baldwins most famous and important themes how folks like to forget their history and what that means but i will stop there. You know i cant say no to you. I knew him when he was a tiny tot. I think it is a crisis for us and again i speak psychologically because i have heard so many people say oh my god i cant take it anymore. The constant drumbeat of victimization really is something that makes people feel badly not just white people. I agree entirely. The crisis is really for democracy until the moment has passed for democracy which is clearly been in a state of decay for the past several decades. Its a question for governance. I think thats where the true change will happen and i agree when we live in the moment from atrocity to atrocity can prevent us from the real work which is thinking about the structural but need that which is often quite more dispersed, much more pervasive and insidious as well. I think going to the question of where to go from here, we have to think creatively which we are doing and continue to think creatively about some of the structures. Just for example i dont know why i was surprised when i heard that the president was the first sitting president to visit a prison in detroit and immediately after my surprise, why would i be surprised . We dont live in a democracy where people in prison, love people who arent imprisoned but have been imprisoned cant vote. They dont represent todays political logic so you might go to the smallest town in iowa hoping to pick up delegate votes but why would you go to the supermax . We have to rethink a lot of our assumptions and the level of disenfranchisement that happens in this country and all the way down to people who are inside as well. To go back to a point made earlier about digital circulation and our awareness because a piece of that is not that we have become increasingly aware of these atrocities but people are responding in new ways. Im interested in to what extent are you optimistic isnt the word that ru hard and andis is suggestive of a possibility for transformation or does it strike you simply mobilization . What is your perspective on whats happening . If i may i think this moment of mobilization that we have is incredibly impressive. I think some of it is technological in the sense that im not sure in Human History we have had such a Pervasive Network communication and it came at a time where if you remember the period before twitter or before the internet what were the three channels you got for your news from . We have faith citizens journalism. You remember what they said about the New York Times. That wasnt the only newspaper. I do agree. There was is robust rise of the digital age. We are at a moment where there certainly is organization and intense awareness and we were speaking in the green room before. I was just kind of surfing around and i went to the hero of justice that keeps all the school data on criminal justice etc. We had have very little data about Police Killings for example. What we do have indicates there has not been much changed over the past 10 years which means what we are seeing now has eyes been going on. The difference is we dont have an epidemic of Police Killings. We have an epidemic of people paying attention being fearless enough to film in the technology isnt the only thing. You still have to have the human body up their recording and there can be repercussions but i think thats where it is. We are realizing that power while it does not cede anything willingly is also not insurmountable either. Its a moment of hope i think. I dont want to be pollyannaish about it or naive particularly after the news of this past week but looking at the statistics how many other people died in cells and we never knew about it . I think there is some reason for hope. Nell is pointing out that black newspapers historically have been an important part of getting the word out that theyre Something Different about this moment and that is ironically technology has acted as a democratizing factor. Almost everything this ram has a device right now and if something happened you could get surveilling right away. You can go home or you can get home and let the rest of the world know like that. That is new and that is different and thats very powerful and thats something that i think is cause for hope. Theres also something we have to be cautious of. There are two things. One, surveillance camera viewer verse especially when you dont have the power. Everyones clamoring for every Police Officer to have a camera as if black communities are not already over surveilled in the first place. This is something for going to think hard about. What would it mean for Police Officer to have the camera walking through the neighborhood . When we are recording Police Officers we are not recording them just as a matter of courts. We are catching the men acted something but what would now mean to be recorded just crossing the street walking to the corner bodega. That may be known for their activities that you are getting in to get a pack of lifesavers but then there something else. I want to go back to 9 11. When we saw the two towers come and the news played over and over and something odd at least happened to me. The first time i was horrified but are the 50th time i started a detached fascination. Look how the building is falling. Thats an awful thought to happen after you have seen it on the loop 50 times the visual reaction is to be doubled so there something we have to be cautious of. Just because these videos are hitting the web that by itself cannot do the work that is needed to do. There is a way to get im only currently and i come back every six days to news on facebook and theyre somebody new. I hadnt heard about sonia bland and whats this . Every five or six days theres another video of a guy getting shot and the person gone missing or person being beat. When that happens over and over again we have to take care that we simply dont say, it has to have the effect of motivating people and thats the danger of it aint so pervasive that at some point thats my more cautiously pessimistic perspective. I think those images and i agreed we can easily become used to a whole host of images and when he speaks about 9 11 that loop stand itself for the general public, circling not this audience but for the general public the looping quickly became whipping up a frenzy fires, the sentiment of the patriot act a whole host of things and with that loop being the background drumbeat so i completely you dont have to be entirely pessimistic to understand that so i agree with you. On the other hand i think having this awareness is a painful thing we all have to go through. We have to make sure people are stating their name and you cannot run from these images. They wont be relegated to a secure blog like we will make the Mainstream Media take a look at this. For all the talk of our bucket list as he calls it im not sure it was on his agenda to visit a prison in 2015 when he was first elected or even the second time he was elected. We have moved the tape that much further. Im not particularly disparaging of the present and im not wholeheartedly in favor of everything he has done and i think we very much have given him credit for taking initiatives to visit a prison. I think he genuinely wanted to do it, dont get me wrong but i think his this awareness was raised by all the work that people have been doing for years before he was elected and now we are at a point where power is starting to acknowledge some of this. Another thing, what we see through the internet through interconnectivity is very important but i really want to stress on the psychological side and on the medical side the importance of action, a doing something. And that doing something can be in the street and it can be giving money and it can be part of an organization. It can be writing. There are many ways of doing something but speaking of someone who has been through this and knows how long the struggle lasts, that we have to first have meetings of doing something and then step away and returning to our work. When i say our work i mean your work and your work and your work. I dont just mean political work. For some people it will be political work. For some people it will mean running for office. For some people it will be writing reports that well get to the fbi or the bureau of labor statistics. There are so many ways of doing it but we each have our own work and if we only talk to each other or talk to the world, to the web about our anguish we impede our own work and we are not simply black people and anguish or in anger. We are also writers, scholars, artists, whatever else it is we can do. You need to do that as well. The point that you make about the psychological resonates with me with perspective talking about 9 11 because one of the things, one of the consequences people talked about afterthefact is that those who watch the footage over and over again were more likely to have poster breivik stress disorder than those who were on the ground and there is a way that the witnessing can become a deep wounding if we dont have the resources to do something. Just shifting gears a little bit one of the critiques that has emerged about who around family mobilized with respect to gender, with respect to gender identity, Sexual Orientation etc. And the primary critique being it has been much more common for people to mobilize around this gender, heterosexual black men than other categories of people subjected to Police Violence or any kind of deadly violence. We see that shifting. This is a prime example of a gender privileging and you feel strange knowing that especially i grew up in the 1980s were we were thinking the extension extinction of the blackmail, there was an entire political discourse but nonetheless its still what it is. And thats a can of worms it really becomes ultimately nonproductive. You start favoring the hetero normative but he. You end up finding yourself close and company with critiques of matriarchal black families since well before the moynihan report and embedded our whole line of thoughts for which we should not subscribe at all. I think the other thing about it is it quickly puts us in a state where we could talk about my brothers keeper. They have supporters and we have detractors. I am very skeptical of it. I think it puts us in the mindset of gender segregation cognitively which translated to policy which is also inappropriate. Its attacked and i dont think it would be put up if. Your brothers keeper . I also agree. I think whatever has happened for examples an awful thing. I like to think that the equalizing of our technical fields and i do think its a positive thing whether that changes here. I certainly like the hopes of that and one of the things to think about this what is happening in the background, the opening up of the idea of marriage. We have American Families were American Families dont tend to look up a used to look in terms of competition so im hopeful that i can change but i think its one of those things also that the black and Brown Community cannot fit that agenda forests. Im not sure its always very good. Part of it has to do with gender norms. Who can be on the front lines of the state. Thats not the right way to think of it but i think we have to be especially sensitive to who we speak about. When i spoke on the issue of privilege and black male victims so we have to be more attentive because its basic. All black lives matter and when we say black lives matter its not a catchphrase for black men, but other folks. In early may to put that back on the agenda and thats why its important that we have the darnell moores of the world word the arising helping us here is their way out of it. Ultimately its about politics and about the action doing but we have to think very closely. There is a discussion that has to be offered and thats important to have those voices as leaders of the movement. In some ways its distinguished from me about this moment there are clear black activist better at the forefront in refusing to set aside issues of gender and sexuality for more solidarity that has to be an integral part of our work. We have argued they are inseparable. Newark we have a newish mayor. He is no longer new. Roche baraka and before that we had a charismatic leader cory booker who is now a u. S. Senator and cory booker had a much higher profile nationally. Cory booker was just a regular mayor. He didnt walk on water by any means so he had a very highprofile. But what has happened in newark which is a city that doesnt have much money at all is that the barack administrations been able to tap existing sources of money, of support. He and his administration agreed to federal oversight with the Newark Police which cory booker, his administration fought off so we can have important changes for instance 2000 people having jobs in the city this summer simply because the administration has been active reaching for the use of existing resources. What i want to say with this is first of all that i think when we talk about the importance of pushing on the cabinet are pushing on the administration to tap push starts on a local level , and part of what can be our action to keep our sanity can be acting at the local level in fact i would say that its more useful and it feels better at the local level because you are working with your neighbors. Alta moleh the hashtag activism is only the beginning part. Thats the communication. Certainly in newark we still do retail politics in newark. I went to my nextdoor neighbor to meet the candidate who became the mayor so politics still happens on the neighborhood level and i think that is the more productive level in terms of making change that you can see and psychologically easing your mind so that you can do your work. I have one more comment just going back to the hope for change using black maleness as a censor board comes. I think in some sense what is happening is what we are seeing in the hiphop community. Im not that older guy and ive been around for a little bit but i followed wrap my whole life and im now seeing a whole group of folks coming up that culturally 25 years ago would have been shown the door. You cant wear those jeans and be the top seller. You cant live life like that. You cant talk like that in your hair cant look like that and be part of the community. Is another source of normative patriarchal norms that have been detrimental so more powerful movement in the black community about whose lives really count. That is interesting. I see what you are saying but i also see on some level of contraction of the range of ideas that are present in have hop and a lot of that. That will happen on its own and that is another panel. I want to go back to this dynamic between the local and national, international. What strikes me is i really do agree with what you are saying that so much politics in terms of what you have an impact and at the same time for those who are marginalized among the marginal and those who are minority within a minority that are the most horrible population it strikes me that accessing an International Network actually does really important work as well in terms of being able to have your experience and identity is identities supported on a larger scale even among those im thinking the increase in the national and International Activism where so many is vastly underemployed and marginalized in all kinds of markets but that networks nationally and globally in order to begin the processes of lobbying and begin demonstrating protests and organizing in ways that would be very difficult to do in a local level and formidable to affordable to give any local level. My former neighbor moved away from new york which has given people that come from troubled backgrounds and for him making those young peoples lives i dont know if i can see better but getting there from monday to the next to the next, that was retail action. I am so much more focused on the local level where you can do facetoface or where you can do do issues that matter to the people in your community. So for instance the schools are a very big issue in the previous session we were talking about school issues and what happens when rich outside people are deciding what happens in schools whereas on the local level if the people whose children are in school and that has changed what happens with the schools in new york. I think we are also seeing an increasing amount. Its on the other side of the globe as well and i think that im not sure that i am not sure that theres been a moment in quite some time where weve had so much International Scrutiny on criminal justice here since the last year. Certainly they were watching but that was digitally and he justice and i think now there is a scrutiny on the Police Misconduct and murdered that because the connections are being seen the project started off modest and is now working through the south and sending people over and making those connections in chicago the near project. And it goes on and on and all of that sort this started as local affairs. But its wonderful to see how much of the connection is going on. I think it is a very useful thing for getting people out of newark or miami or houston and simply having them talking to their counterparts in other countries and other languages could be the breakdown in the American Culture in which so few people know another language. Older children continue to speak spanish and older children continue to have a larger mindset that is a good question but by and large there are other American Cultures that are very parochial and a bullish center and the ability of people to go around and say we are number one and not feel the need to know any of the languages and cultures is disappointing. The Technology Point is important. And as it has allowed us to get out across the borders and one of the things im a little concerned about is so a lot of people can know it has to be a certain kind of pressure that can be brought to bear on a nation and the United States is fairly resistant and impervious to the outside pressures especially that comes to the population. Some people think that is the hypocrisy of saying some people say thats a payroll and maybe it did. But its not necessarily news, theres the concern that cant be known whether other communities outside of the nations give a cent to. If this is happening in the nation we would be bringing them on but its happening here. They should be more concerned with whats happening overseas. So they had the situation and how did it start and thats fine but we will see his wife and if it happens elsewhere that this is an awful thing. Its not this kind of grade writing. I agree. We are seeing a reconfiguration. You could always appeal to the international opinion. How far you get with that depends on several other variables but for example the way they covered the little rock nine are all watching and its a way in which it is a very circumscribed way which the leadership could press these issues in a National Forum to talk about International Human rights when the record at home is so poor. How that configure is now absent the cold war is a different story which is important by the connections between the local efforts here in palestine for example are so important because its important they are not just shifting here the moving lines need to be productive. I dont have an answer here. You talked about cold war civil rights and its almost taken for granted what was going on with the soviet union made a big change in terms of what happened in the national politics, southern politics in the United States and then youre adding that the United States is no longer in the hegemonic situation in the world if so then the cold war ciil rights in the soviet union as a kind of cover point then on the other side theres the Current Issue of the Confederate Flag and so far this as i understand it occurred without the soviet union pointing a finger so i wonder if i know something i also know around 1964 that large numbers were feeling that civil rights have to come largely clergy including rabbis as well but large numbers lobbying congress say this is wrong not the soviet union is going to point a finger at us but this is wrong. Then with the Confederate Flag is thinking its a way to test this situation. But maybe the Public Opinion in the United States can shift to shift enough of an opening. Its worse when the 50s and 60s generally speaking more critique of the cold war politics. I think that is part of the point. Its the politics of the cold war that cannot be assumed today. Its much different. It cannot be meeting here this is a communist nation. Hes signaling a liberal stance. He wants to separate himself from the more radical tradition. The mainstream civil rights organizations which is to say that one but ultimately lbj would have listened to beyond. It cannot be analogous to the cold war at least i hope not because ultimately that was often limited as well. Can i Say Something to the panelists. I wonder if its not a parallel that if the intersection is at the aftermath of world war ii and the Independence Movement and the kind of variety of ways in which that sort of was a part of the transformation of the sea in the late 50s and 60s that maybe we could think of this in terms of response to the various forms of fundamentalism on the one hand into the capitalism into the market and the market of Global Capital and vulnerability and people all across the globe if they are similarly the sense of forces that are pushing people to think about the transformation if not in the kind of instrumentalist way that the cold war would use but if it has a potential to make people think a new. Its the way that the capitalist is moving across the globe and everybody is vulnerable increasingly a way that fundamentalism is in the various swords and having a certain kind of fundamentalism. It strikes me that there are forces at play that may be pushing people to these things. Theres an awfully tragic way that he is on an exchange of confirmation over the past couple of years weve become aware of Police Killings there was always an out for people who do not want to own up to the fact that it was racial because the police were given a default credibility theres always that way always been a out and if the Police Officer did something he must have had a reason. And you go on these comment sections and pick the media and you always find people saying the person doing something wrong why did he run a bit and he comes along and he just kills my people for no reason under no government sanctioned but now what do you say to that, there is no doubt for that is just pure unadulterated hatred that cannot be masked by any narrative and so i think one of the reasons we see the Confederate Flag coming down is because this guy goes in there and shoot this many people that theres nothing to hide behind anymore and hes an out right supremacist terrorist. I will throw those words out there, to back. Now you have to bring down the flag. They dont follow. Yes, i was with you. It did follow an absolutely. But i dont think its necessarily followed. Said there were other things going on but im not sure has to do with the rest of the world. I dont know what it is. As i said i dont know the answer. I dont even know if that is a good question. But it is striking to me the scenario that you laid out did proceed in a lot of other places as well. So in the 50s, that was a local story for a long time the montgomery bus boycott. And i dont think that we got the kind of National Mobilization that we see a versatile rights until the 1960s. So there is a long period where there was a lot of bloodshed. We couldnt take the bloodshed anymore. There were just too many black people being killed. And that didnt lead to anything for the longest time. A lot of people got killed in charleston and even before the president gave the eulogy the flag started cutting down. If i hear you correctly i share this sense of unease as well because it doesnt really translate that because you have a massacre of the flag and im glad its down. Any discussion about the heritage is completely stupid to begin with but also disingenuous but there is a certain masking that goes with it. We brought down the flag, and of conversation. We talked about. Do we talk about this as a form of terrorism . I havent seen much discussion about it. Generally speaking i dont think we have that when, i forgot his first name but when he was caught in tennessee immediately we were looking for connections anytime this happens with one of our muslim brothers or sisters because immediately with website is here looking at and did he ever googled for a School Project moslem fundamentalism this must be the root of all the as. On his Facebook Page hes got a flag on his jacket for 21yearsold he doesnt know how to unless someone tells them you need to rock not just the Confederate Flag thats for everyone else, thats for real white supremacy. The lone gunmen that showed up and flagged down and that was that into somewhere there is something deeper going on. One of your colleagues noticed the photograph and a specialized and said those photographs are opposed and if they they are fairly sophisticated. He couldnt take those photographs by himself. Which reminded me of the marvelous piece which is in my book creating black americans. And asked who took that and can you take black and look at that. And its actually about a lynching that the whole question is who is on the other side of the camera and are they even coconspirators. [inaudible] yes that is who took the picture and how did those ingredients get in there. If you like someone is going to allow the patriot act and there is no discussion, theres nothing like that. I am not saying that we need to have the militarized state. I dont like this at all. There has been some discussion. That we but we havent seen the mainstream response that we have in the last 36 hours. And related to that you talked about will receive the patriot act 2. 0 and i do want to talk about National Elections as we are running up to the next president ial election we talk about local politics but to what extent do you have a sense of hope for possibility for those that become president how does that bear on this question whether theres a crisis. Im afraid i would vote for democrat and ive been pleased to see Hillary Clinton moving left. That helps me. But for me im much more interested in local and state politics. And the governor is moving to new hampshire. The new jersey governor is the strongest governor in the nation. Our state does not move without the governor. Or he is in iowa with the crazies. [laughter] and talking their language so for me, hearing me talk about the local politics in state politics thats where we can put a thumb on the lever and get people noted and make it count. Im just one person so i am not working on the national right now. Im working on new jersey. Not that i dont think that its important that they are important are in protective effect in terms that they help set the conversations tone. And the current state of the president ial candidates on both tickets concerns me deeply and im not trying to say that to be flip but the gop side this is really wild. I dont have faith and Hillary Clinton if she were to win to come to the aid for the larger benefit they will do it on the grounds that it is good for america to attend. I do what i do. I go to work. A lot of people are watching cspan2 and this is what we do. We are doing something now and its helpful. Im glad that it is for 15 months from now where i dont know what i would do at the moment. I do know that i dont like my vote being taken for granted because im black. I dont like the idea of the gop there is a way in which the Democratic Party has taken for granted that support it even their breadandbutter issues directly confronting these issues that are part of us and understand. Its in the economics and they trickle over a. Its advocated with of syndicated with other forms of the body that may not be for people of color they see this fiction that we help the middle class and everyone will work and thats kind of a trickledown economics. I am not sure that is a whole lot better than the trickledown so the primary is coming that. I started in november so i filled the time to think it through. In terms of once again the state politics, the the decisions keep getting made on a local level because we have so many elections and i would like to see us involved in those as well as the voters that are one of 150 million if everybody voted but as im thinking about the Confederate Flag and we are talking about voting, im thinking that one of the forces that i would say was really important what is really important in the change was the fact that there is now a significant electorate in South Carolina. I would bet that is the single largest pressure making black South Carolina ends visible and as people who are not represented by the Confederate Flag the tragedy that the member was assassinated a difference as well that when we talk about this sort of tsunami of politics bloc voting has made a revolution but its made all the difference in the world. This is related but its been discussed in florida in particular is the kind of growing population in florida and the multiracial and being significant for the next election but it opens the door to have some discussion about immigration and politics with respect to that we saw some in terms of the digital activism. There has been a significant intention to whats happening in the Dominican Republic and so are seeing the conference about the race internationally and so i think domestically the way that we talk about immigration has historically been in the United States. To what extent are those issues things that should be primary or with respect to the talking about how great functions in the United States today. I think that weve been a little bit skeptical about the way that race and immigration can come together in a way that can push the issue forward with one of the things weve studied intensely a lot of what happens in America Today even though we are more than 100 years past there is the idea that its very powerful and the way in which for example im a puerto rican man. Thats how it plays out. They are welleducated people from africa. Immigrants are less burdened by the tragic side of african American History and i think more able to take advantage of the tremendous opportunities of the American Culture. This has been true no matter where they come from they tend to say heres something i can do when im not going to deal with all this other stuff let me go do what i need to do so there is an advantage in energy terms of matter where they come from. In terms of where we see this so many of the black students are were either themselves immigrants or the children of immigrants and very often the parents are immigrants are very welleducated which has been the key to the advantages of the asian immigrant so the generation is heavily educated. So black after the city is much more complicated already then it was a generation ago and its going to continue being complicated. Complicated in the sense of many people coming from various places, complicated because we now have more voluntary immigrants from the african continent than we had in the voluntary immigrants. That went away when people thought it is homogenized and this would change with the tide of african descendent immigrants its a very interesting time. I think the way that immigration is discussed is in the capital politics on the electoral level there dont seem to be that many new ideas coming from their. To make the linkages of the political connections as well there are billions of people. Then theres this larger burden that we have to think about that is shared across so many other groups. In california and los angeles anyway half of the incidents of Police Brutality are born and the latino population. Clearly thats not much different from what we see in South Carolina, mississippi, alabama there is a linkage right there. I think also in terms of the comments about the crisis for democracy hell do we remake a democracy or try to finetune this thing we have to think extensively, and i might sound like an oldfashioned kind of liberal but expanding the franchise is one of those things it isnt everything but its a lot clear at a time now we might be at an alltime low. The title is the moment of the crisis which is to suppress the voter even talking about the general apathy which is still there for people that discouraged or cant vote because of their criminal record or the obstacle of the Police Officer saying if you voted for had a Child Support you will be cast into that kind of thing, voter id law. I urge people to vote at a supermarket in newark and all kinds of people said already registered and reminded them about the next election and some people said i dont vote. It was a principled situation as some people said well im still on parole, i cant vote. So all of that happened. Its ludicrous that people are part of the policy and wouldnt have a say. And thats where we would say where do we go from here for the entire gulags of prisons that could be just written off. There is no votes to be gained at all. We have to wait for a wellintentioned president with a bucket list. I want to step back for just a second on the voting. I think it is still relevant. You raised the point about the varying levels of a people conference and it strikes me that one of the ways we talk about the undocumented immigration we talk about people being without papers but there are all kinds of people without papers that cannot access the certificates or Social Security cards or various ways in which the folks are incarcerated books are incarcerated in the various kinds of exclusions from the full exercise of participation and membership and get given that why is it so difficult to forge alliances across these other kinds of differences whether it is National Identity or ethnicity. What is hampering that . One thing is the relationship between jobs and politics. Patronage, jobs. So it is a question ive turned who is going to allocate the jobs . It is a real thing. There was a point made earlier about what happens when immigrants come here and where folks are already educated etc. There is no strategy than to divide people with interest so if i live in new haven connecticut i live very close to the black neighborhoods and it were talking about this the other day theres something happening in the neighborhood. They are poor but they are businesses, independently owned businesses. Some people own homes and rent homes. But it seems it is just a different place and as we move through this area its this whole other story but its a little bit better than another group is going to walk you back down because of the stigma attached to them and we wont have the resources or the connections and again this isnt my expertise but i cant do this comic sends a clear that there is one obstacle to get alliances will actually itll be a bit it will be a bit of dead weight because you dont have that kind of people to be able to get them to listen to you to respect the community as much as other. Hold that thought. We have the former mayor coming out. [applause] good afternoon. I didnt know i was going to have this privilege but im delighted to have it. Im supposed to be outside signing books. And then they offered me an opportunity to come in and agree to you folks and of course i seized upon it. Im not be confused by them. So i hope that he will stop by barnes and noble outside and pick up a book. The purpose of writing a book and trying to promote it in the first instance is not to make money to talk but to talk about a lot of wonderful people who did great and good things when we were privileged to serve in the city so that which we did right they get credit where things were not done as well as they should have been i will take the blame. But i hope that you will stop out and take a look at it if you have not already. Ive got someone that youre telling me you know youve got to go now. [laughter] but i thought if you have a question or two i might try to be responsive. We have just been asking what it is that keeps the different parts of the community separate like the latino neighborhood in africanamerican neighborhoods with the african neighborhood and the white neighborhood what but keeps them from working together . The obviously they ought not be separate. Indeed the title of the book that we have done is a mayors wife governing the gorgeous mosaic. I went to school in harlem for a little while a very long time ago and we were taught new york city is a melting pot but its not a melting pot i say that its a gorgeous mosaic and they speak more than 100 languages and queens and we are to not permit folks to provide us. We need to come together because our interests are the same and we dont know why it is the way it is people almost every year around doctor kings birthday the question is has doctor kings dream then realized and of course the response is no it hasnt that things are better and not what they ought to be a. You created a successful multiracial coalition. How did you go about that. I had some really good people, some of you here know of bill lynch for instance who died much too early and 72. Its still difficult for me to talk about him but he was a large part of the reason that we were able to put together the group that we had. There were some folks not only have i never known of it or heard of, i assume you know these names but he said to me you know youre going to need a council and i said i know that but who he said i know just the guy. I said who is he, he was a judge he was one of the smartest, nicest guys you ever want to meet. Hes now a federal judge. Before i left i appointed him back to the federal court bench then he got elected to the Supreme Court and clinton made him a federal judge. There was a time that we were making plans for the Community Center and the chairman was a federal judge in the chairman of the group and one saturday afternoon to brothers and sisters were getting anxious. The judges there. No, i do have the judge. [laughter] sokoto churches are known as the heavy judge. But i have a lot of good people. He was the chairman of our Judiciary Committee and this is a nonpaid position youve got to understand. He and his committee. So we have more women, more gays , more people of color than ever before. That was because of basil. Hes gone much too early. So it is no exaggeration to say that we did get some good things done. Some things we didnt do as well as we might have and i will accept the blame for that but we did get a lot of good things done and every now and then somebody remembers him. Not often but every once in a while but its because of these folks they were outstanding. Many are now working. Some are not. There was one who at the very last minute in 93, where im about to block the city hall door came rushing into the city hall with a memorandum of understanding to be signed by the deputy mayor for the finance economic development. What would most of us have been doing that late in the evening trying to get a job. He was still working on the one he had. And the agreement to be brought in for the disney deal with the start of the cleanup in times square. So there were a lot of women and men. [applause] so thats the reason for the book. It really is. I wont go chapter by chapter through the book i promise you that but i think youll find it interesting reading its in perfect there were things we could have said differently for instance the judge report socalled unfound heights and the governor said to me you know i sort of watered down. It was bad but it wasnt that bad. In the book i said i shouldnt have said this but i told him if you see me into bear in a fight you hope that there. [laughter] that was in politics. It wasnt a gracious gracious to make that kind of a comment that its fair in writing. I hope you will read it and i thank you all for giving me this opportunity. [applause] thank you for being here. Its wonderful to have you join us. Given the conversation that we are having which you were not aware of, theres a question that there is a question that we could add and extend which is we have seen debate about racial representation and executive positions as well as the police departments, and giving her tenure at a time of tremendous racial turmoil around policing and racial violence by Yusuf Hawkins comes to mind and it seems to me that you are one of the few people who could comment on how we are to think about the change in leadership and to the death of freddie gray and the changes in response to the oneyear anniversary. Im a chairman of the foundation. Im sure everybody here would recall that. We were so outraged by that. There were a handful of others and we decided to get arrested at the plaza. The police were very nice and they said we can take you out of the back and i said you dont understand this point. You go out the front. [laughter] so that folks can see. [applause] so this amazing gracious woman there had have been too many instances like that. He had no weapon, wasnt threatening anybody. And there are equally outrageous circumstances. So we continue to be outraged by these things. The one thing that i know is absolutely necessary is what we refer to as community policing. The police need a community and the Community Needs the police. Most of the people who commit crimes are are angry and that for every hand in the final analysis because of cooperation in the community. The folks living in the communities dont want people among them committing crimes who are all too often the victims. We are very much mindful of that and i think that among the things we need, one is what i Call Community policing and for our young people, education is absolutely essential. Just the other day i turned 88. So im older. [applause] that we owe you the ability and the capacity to achieve your potential. We dont do that. Each generation should be better than the one before. My brian and i. We are fortunate we have a little boy and a little girl. The little boy is 61. [laughter] and we had a couple of grandchildren and god has cost us. And it makes a difference. But we owe not just our own children that i maintain i have lots of kids. I have lots of young people through my work and i feel that way about them. So if one, we accept that it is our responsibility, we have an obligation to see to it that our young people get appropriately educated and are not built treated by police or anybody else. I better go sign these books. [applause] thanks a lot. With a gift that was. I think were actually at the time where we want to open the floor for questions. I am your county sister and i am also involved on the local level on the local school board and one of the things i want to ask you all as a panel especially the conversation between the local versus National Versus the state. Fundamentally i think theyll tie together. You cant win on the local level in the state is doing things but ultimately im doing what youre trying to do if you look at educational funding in new jersey, you see it is quite a mess. And National Place as well. When you look at your fight for the lack of engagement are politics and voting at an alltime low i started coding the local in 2005 we moved to bloomington and even just trying to move out who these people were on the ballot was very difficult even in the internet age, that you are right in that the impact of local is immediate. So your involvement on a local level can have an Immediate Impact and that is one of the best ways to hook people into start engaging. But how do we battle against what has happened with social media and the Attention Span that we are generating in the new generations to allow folks to care enough and engage in us and plugged in enough to actually commit to making the difference on a local level and grow that in the state international. Speaking of the county and new jersey for the local, what i see is people around the school for instances when parents see their kids schools closing so its not in the abstract. Its here is an issue that affects me and heres how i can do something about it. But you point out the phds have so much trouble finding out who we are voting for. Part of it is the loss of the starledger. If i were a fulltime political person, i would do two things. I would create a way for people to know who is running for what and of course i would my spin on it and the other is here is some very clear guidelines for voting so when i was out there, i was with people in the Baptist Church that i go to and they have a little folder. People dont know that. Weve been in Mental Health and i certainly witnessed people approach the crises and they can either mobilize them for action or can paralyze them. Those that are able to mobilize for action are usually held to tolerate a level of uncertainty. And i think what often happens with our community is that we are not approaching or preceding the experience that we are in come of this oppression that the guardian as a chronic problem. Its not a sprint that we are in a longdistance run. When i think about how we need to approach these next steps, i think of a former harlem elder Professor John henry clark who always spoke about the chronic but longstanding march all people have taken on the Journey Towards liberation. And i dont forget to praise to pray is that he always used to work approach should be demanding and continue the plan. [laughter] that our effort shouldnt be centered around the personality that the fact that theres Indigenous Leaders in every community and where they stand. Thats where we can begin and i like what youre saying about doing your work. My question to the panel is that i think people often confuse political power with partisanship which doesnt have to be the same thing. What i would like to know is what kind of institutions do you think we need to be developing in our communities that can help us become connected and mobilized around a personal interest we can be working on and then be poised to take advantage at a time when something comes to the floor that we need to take action on as opposed to just coming together about the crisis that we would already be to gather as an organization. Thats where we are lacking starting from square one. [applause] people start with an issue that affects them personally. But then it falls apart because people are not experienced in using their power politically. Im not going to speak to the issue of psychology here because that is a therapeutic side of politics or political mobilization was not addressed to the longtime activist runs an ongoing seminar for local people that are mobilized and if he helps them find those of translating your agitation into moving to the levers of power so you need somebody with the experience and the knowledge that is willing to make that an ongoing seminar. Its become vocal to say we dont need bitterness leader anymore. We just want to put in a plug and i will tell you why precisely because one thing that is important after the resources, the most valuable resources is time. People dont have time or jobs to get to come the jobs that will let them have the time off and one of the personalities is resource people making a sacrifice but they help keep people in the game for the longterm commitment but many of them cant. If they have somebody to energize around with always on the ground and let them know whats going on, why because its happening somewhere else so we dont need that one leader anymore. Its a practical function for the communities that dont have the privileges to be consistently actively informed. They should be careful not to become dependent. They also become very easy targets to be knocked off so i think there is a plus on either side. I would like the point about leadership the organizer has a piece out on the color line magazine where she talks about the importance of leadership also calls for structure so in case the leader wont be there you have a structure and the organizational capacity to keep moving on and some of those are vibrant new organizations now if some of them already exist to take them to that capacity as well. They talk about immigration and labor unions for example clearly these are places where there is ethnic divisions but also a lot of ground on which lets be clear it is poised to be an agent of change involved in ways that it hasnt involved in the issues that it hasnt since the 80s so i would encourage everyone to keep an eye on what happens there as well. The crisis moment is where we should be looking. Many progressive unions have been around for a long time as well. The work of the caucus in Montgomery Alabama that created itself had worked on the discrimination and segregation on buses and so when there was the rosa parks arrest just as you suggested there was an opportunity to activate a whole network which led to the montgomery bus boycott and was successful so that is a comment that is saying its a wonderful idea and something that should come out of the black wives matter. They were just giving people a place to come to learn about organizing centers that. And the issue of the charismatic leader that is an issue you already mentioned always critical in how it was problematic for the black community. So dont let baker is a organizational leader without the public presence that she has come to take on as academics have begun to write the mysteries of her life. Just kind of piggybacking on that there are ways in which we dont recognize the Women Leaders as having charisma. And it isnt just about this moment. Its kind of in a western civilization kind of deeply embedded in the culture that we think of charisma as being a masculine trait so we need to rethink that it is in particular with his charismatic leadership so for someone like ella baker has written a biography of baker, she knows that leadership is important and its very tricky. At islamic fannie lou hamer. On the conversation that we are having related to what ive been writing recently we both have a history of organizations that did the very kinds of advocacy work for the political pressure but we also have a rush associational life that is a lot of activity. Or we didnt work in the community so im thinking for example no the schools that have every state within organization in addition to their being a National Organization and they worked on building best practices in education and knowing and thinking about how we would collect data as well as advocating for the position of the resources. So they joined organizations as part of a kind of Cultural Practice seems to have waned generally. You dont think so . [laughter] but i guess the other part of the question to me is what extent is it also significant in the question of developing the kind of trust and interdependence that is necessary. The point that is raised by a vulnerability or the danger of charisma and the point about trust and being able to depend on each other. One of the things that i discovered is a whole raft of black caucuses since black caucuses since the 80s and desegregated organizations its like theres a black caucus Airline Pilot and while professors and black caucus of professors. [laughter] succumb as the need arises, people do come together. So i dont think you should despair organizing around Interest Groups, around of the racial Interest Groups because as long as they we are an organization in which we feel that people are not getting our issues, people will come together for those issues on the table so all is not lost. The other thing about Julius Williams who i think is the kind of person whos been active for 30 years but probably theres somebody like that in places that have universities. This isnt somebody who is not tutored that he knows how to get things done. And it turns out that there is a sort of lifecycle of a range of organizations or groups of people that come together around a crisis or an outrage and they worked together for a while and then somebody gets jealous and defenders the back biting and it all falls apart. It turns out that you can foresee this and warn people and get them anyway to work or candidate and past that and continue to Work Together. On the same issue or perhaps on new issues that come up. A fascinating conversation. Thank you so much. I was thinking i was thinking about we are publishing in the innocuous you coming out later this year in an interview that was never before seen. Its 19 pages long. He talks about the language that is an american term to contemplate but what he says is provocative but there is no such thing as a Civil Rights Movement. Theres always a movement to maintain a certain cover and black folks organized to check that. What do you think of that is it the that the fact that folks are not organizing but instead of responding directly to the reorganizing . So my own guess of what i know about i wouldnt attribute the idea that there is an organization. He had various ways of indicting people in groups and one of the things she seems to be trying to say in that kind of statement is Something Like the following to create something new. It cant be a movement. How can that be a movement if it was to bring people here and keep them. That was the movement. Dot knowing this and not being a scholar of baldwin i think i will let you. The people that were involved in the movement would disdain the term Civil Rights Movement talking about how they talked about it as a Freedom Movement and the language really contained so then its described as the movement for the recognition of the political right that ends as we had a chance and ending in the Voting Rights act that ignores them less then two weeks later and ignores the issues with respect to economic inequality and Police Brutality and all those other things, so i do think we have to engage in the corrective of the way the language limits us into this seems like an imported important entry way into getting that. Other questions. Panelists, do you have questions for each other . Im not making any art piece days. Im writing a memoir. Its called old in art school. The first thing people would ask me is how old are you and i would say 64. [laughter] what are you working on . The history of race and drug addiction politics from the 50s to the 90s. A long time ago there was what was called the crisis in heroin addiction and under that of the expanded Police Forces tempesta rockefeller drug law, be circulated all kind of interesting strange definitions of addiction and recovery of prepublication and im looking forward to finishing it. My summer is not quite done. Im working on the intellectual history of why black lives matter and there is something people are trying to overcome their slogan that has a deep history that most of us in this room know about. Technically just simply not knowing the long tradition the slogan is a part of south im putting together a project to give more help to the idea to the readership in the sense of doing things and doing the work that we have a very small part to actually function for the american policy because that is something that someone like myself can do. I just turned in a manuscript even though it isnt done. Its a history known as the black National Anthem which is part of the reason im despairing because its going through the history shows how rich and robust all of these lives were and the conditions that we joined to sing the song and will always be rich politically and intellectually and socially. So thats where i am. We have come to that moment we prepare for the next but before we prepare for the next we want to thank the panelist. [applause] its a wonderful and engaging conversation and wonderful imagining. Wonderful possibilities. I would like to thank the sponsors. Who at one point decided the root is always stronger than the branch and we thank him for that. The sponsors at Columbia University of course, cspan, barnes and noble. I would like to finish by reading a quick letter. Dear mr. Rodriguez got a the plug on 17 years as the largest africanamerican book fare and the flagship black letter a evidence. Im glad to be able to sponsor the initiative and give a book in your name and provide books to children in the community where i was raised and educated. The best book you can give to a child is a book. Not only does it improve their vocabulary and listening skills skills but then stimulates the mind and helps them discover new things. My mother encouraged us to read every day and kept our bookshelves filled with books. If i read them all she had me read them again. Books openparen mind to possibilities and allowed me to dream. If i didnt know how come i wouldnt be where i am today. I wouldnt have known to follow directions and fellow job applications in start and run a successful business or even sign contracts. I would have been limited in what i can accomplish and for this reason i chose to get involved in the book fare. I want to children to know we care about them and i want them to understand if i can accomplish my dream so can they and i want them to understand they can succeed academically, create successful businesses to give back. Its up to us as parents and communities to assure the children have the tools to succeed in life. In this imagination we are going to try again. With a big imagination comes big ideas lets Work Together as a community to provide future leaders with a Great Foundation and ensure all have success and a great start. God bless. [applause] all that to say about the intention of the book fare to acknowledge ourselves but also to acknowledge and to share our contribution to the American Global culture continues and it continues from not only the artistic about the intellectual engagement. The book fare will continue to bury books and culture in a very active way. The Enterprise Support of that idea is reflected in what we see today. It was amazing for those of you in a televised audience that went out today it was absolutely captivating. It is the best of who we are. The next event is at the midwest regional with a partnership of the naacp and an organization that supports the community there. We are excited about that. Please i will send you all a hold of the date 716. Thank you. [applause] out of the barnes and noble gift shop. These are great conversations. Thank you so much. Tv visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what they are reading this summer. Im looking forward like a lot of people to read go set the watchmen. Its a harper lee book thats been valued because she broke to kill a mockingbird which is one of my alltime favorite books and movies and she wrote nothing else and it has a weird sort of life and career in the sense of a wonderful novel that wasnt followed up on anything and then recently the manuscript was found which actually wrote before to kill a mockingbird involving the same character thats coming out in may to july and since i love to kill a mockingbird im sure that it wont live up to that but im looking forward to it right now reading the novel his first cold moviegoer which is largely sent in new orleans in a sort of nostalgia in the new orleans i grew up in. He lived in the greater new orleans area and wrote several novels i liked that im rereading them right now. Prizeg journalist Michael Hiltzik recalls when the federal government got involved in scientific and technological endeavors