Transcripts For CSPAN2 The New Trail Of Tears 20161204

Naomi has written for many publications including the wall street journal, the chronicle of higher education, the new york post, the Weekly Standard and too many to list and she is also the author, i think, of six books with the seventh on its way. I actually went to graduate to school with no amys naomis father. I first met naomi when we debated what another for the New York Times blocking head series. She wrote a book entitled, the faculty lounges, which was an attack on the tenure system, which i thought was utterly outrageous and i had written a book that defended that tenure system, so we had good fun debating that entire set of questions. Im confident i won, but i have to conference that naomi was doing very very well. Her most recent book deals with the topic that most of us do not know much about and that is the utterly shameful condition of americas indian reservations and the utterly shameful treatments that native americans received from the federal government. Naomi has a very very properly entitled the book the new trail of tears and when she tells the story you will see why this is such a fitting title and why the story that she has to tell is so important, so naomi, please come up. Thank you. Thank you all for coming out today and it appears that then won the argument because he is still teaching here. I usually offer kind of a warning before i give a talk about this subject, not the kind of faithbased warning you may be used to, but a warning that you might want to get something stiffer to drink because this is a thoroughly depressing topic and i dont have a lot of good news for you today. About 3000 people live in a south dakota manderson, south dakota in the middle of a reservation, which makes up most of the second poorest county in the us. In 2013, the five Police Officers assigned to patrol the area received 16500 calls for emergency assistance. The went to take a minute for all of you to do the math, 3000 people, 60500 calls, five Police Officers. As of 2009, there were 39 gangs on the reservation involving more than 5000 young men. The average Life Expectancy for men on their reservation is 48. It is one of the worst reservations, but the nationwide statistics are not much better. American indians have the highest rate of poverty of any racial group in the nation. High School Graduation is around 50 and its fallen in recent years. Suicide is the leading cause of death for native american males ages 10 to 14. Out all use disorders are more likely among American Indians that those of any other racial group and involvement of Gang Activity is more prevalent than among latinos and africanamericans. At native american women report being raped and to have times the National Average. The rate of child abuse among native americans is twice as high as the National Average with an estimated one out of every four girls and one out of every six girls in Indian Country is molested before the age of 18. If you want to understand whats behind these statistics, you have to visit indian territory and a couple years ago thats what i did. I spent time in visiting the school and manderson. Is called wounded knee and it has received recently 600,000 in turnaround funds from the federal government. Its clean, freshly painted a mostly quiet in the halls. Of a have installed a computer room to reward kids for Good Behavior and laundry machines so local parents will have incentive to come. Academically, its appalling. As i stood there the principle offered to help a second Grade Student with two math problems. She gave the boy incorrect answers to both of them. The recently fired the entire staff of the school and rehired only the teachers who had not to come from teach for america. Despite the fact is some had math degrees from the best colleges in the country, they felt they were not the right fit. Other tribal leaders were more complacent and told me the tsa folks were simply to whites. And manderson, it must be said that the schools first job is to keep children safe. Occasionally they call the police when students got violent , but mostly their problems are not serious enough to merit an officers response, so the school has learned how to handle matters on its own. Quote, one week in a month we have lockin, lockin i asked, wondering what these innocent looking kids had done to deserve such punishment. Lockin is not punishment, she assured me, its when children stay at school all we can for their safety. Although, the week and is billed as a Cultural Enrichment events, they sing songs and play Traditional Games in the schools gym. She tells me its time to coincide with when the government checks go out to. Of these are the times when parents are most likely to drink and become abusive, she said. Of life for the over 1 million on reservations is surprisingly dependent on the federal government. To know just how much the economy on the reservation depends on public funds one need only look at the effects of the federal Government Shutdown had in the fall of 2013 on the reservation. Take the crow tribe. 364 crow members, more than a third of the tribes workforce, a bus service the only way some crows are able to travel across their 2. 3 millionacre reservation was shuttered. A Home Healthcare aid for six tribal members was suspended. The tribe in Northern California relies almost only on federal financing to operate and his reservation has an Unemployment Rate of 80 . When i wrote to this recently on oped and editor wrote me back saying you must mean that the employment rate is 80 and i assured her no, i meant to the Unemployment Rate and as a result of the shutdown the tribes for low 60 of its 310 employees, closed its Childcare Center and halted emergency Financial Assistance to lowincome and older members. Financing for a program that ensures clean Drinking Water on the reservation ran well. These tribes are so dependent on the federal government that without money from the bureau of Indian Affairs their Economic Activities comes to a complete halt and their members may not have access to clean Drinking Water. This is a third world country that exists in the middle of the wealthiest nations on earth. The question is, how did we get here. Reservations most people know, were a way to get indians out of the way, to push natives onto infertile or otherwise undesirable land, so americans could pursue westward at mansion and today a surprising number of people view reservations as a way of protecting native americans, of ensuring no one can take anything away from them reservation land is held both in trust for indians by the federal government. The only other people who legally can hold things in trust our children or the mentally incompetent. The goal of this policy originally was to keep indians contain, but now it has shifted to preserving land for these people, but the effect is the same. Indians cant own reservation land. No one on a reservation can get a mortgage because the property on the reservation is held in trust by the federal government. Most of its also owned communally by the tribe. A bank could never foreclose on a property because the bank cannot own reservation land. Despite millions of acres of mt space there is a severe housing shortage on many reservations. More and more families crowd into small trailer homes. Visited a Tribal College on one of these reservations in they were talking to me about the possibility of expansion and they said we will have to build up and i looked out the window at acres upon acres of empty space and they explained that they could never get a loan to build on that because thats land they dont already have in their quote unquote possession, so they are thinking about building a space the way people do in new york city as a way as opposed way people do it in say montana. More than a quarter Small Business owners in the us use home equity loans to start up a business or finance an existing one, but American Indians do not have access to the capital they dont own their land, so they dont own their home, so they cant use their homes equity. Indians have long suffered from what nobel prizewinning economist has called that capital. They may possess a certain amount of land on paper, but they cannot put into use by selling it, buy more to take advantage of the economy or borrowing against it. Indian reservation may have been thought to be useless land once, but thats no longer the case. In fact, they contain almost 30 of the nations call reserve west of the mississippi. 50 of the reserve and 20 of known oil and gas reserves. These resources are worth nearly 1. 5 trillion or 290,000 per tribal member. Tragically, 86 of indian land with energy or minerals remains undeveloped because of a federal control reservation. In order to tap those reserves indians must follow a 49 set process as one pro legislator explained to me. The steps involved the bureau of land management, department of the interior, department of justice and Commerce Department and it can take months if not years for each except to be approved. Just to dig a hole requires a 6500 up front payment for an application for a permit to drill for compare that to the process of the reservation which requires about 125. 5. The bureaucracy that oversees reservations is mindboggling. Of the bureau of Indian Affairs has a total of 9000 employees, thats one employee for every 111 indians on a reservation and as with all bureaucrats, they need to find something to do. One indian man i spoke to was trying to purchase a few acres of land from his neighbor, another indian on which to raise if you cattle. The two men had agreed on a price, but then a representative of the bureau of Indian Affairs told him the deal could not get through because the price they had agreed on was not quote fair market value. In the real world fair market value is what someone would pave the land, but not in the world of the bureau of Indian Affairs. The agency had recently commissioned an appraisal of the land on the reservation and apparently had told the appraiser to overvalue the land so as not to screw the indians. That of course is what happened. Is no wonder indians say the iea stands for bossing indians around. What about the casinos . Im regularly asked that indians make enough from gambling. Most indian casinos, those of us that know in the northeast on crd key dinky affairs and isolated communities and the customers are other indians, but even the Successful Community does not bring the prosperity might expect. The seneca, in upstate new york has made over a billion dollars on their gaming operations. Those profits are distributed to tribe members in the form of annuity. According to lucille who runs the seneca economic developing Company Quote these annuities have created an entitlement attitude and that is the downfall. Of the annuities have enabled people not to work. And now that more and more states are opening up gambling is to not indians, tribes are facing competition. The seneca nation has offered low or no interest loans to anyone who wants to try to start some other business, but there are almost of takers. Michael john who is the manager of the Small Business Incubator Program on the territory said his group conducted a survey to find out which businesses residents should open and he tells people there are too many pizza places around and instead rec room recommends outdoor recreation, maintenance and professional look but shaws. The Economic Outlook on the reservation is bleak indians have no Real Property, no access to capital for building businesses, little ability to develop their own Natural Resources and no incentive to work. We give them regulatory and Tax Advantages and things like gaming alcohol, tobacco and even marijuana, Industries None of us would want in our backyard. Even those dont help them because the industries are collectively owned by the tribe and the prophets are distributed like lottery winnings or welfare checks, depending on your perspective. More money is not the answer here. Washington sends about 20 billion a year to reservations. The Indian Health service has a budget in 2015 of 4. 6 billion. Its perhaps the last place in the country you would want to see a doctor. The bureau of Indian Education spends about 20000 for people compared to a National Average of 12400. Not only do the schools fail to educate students, but even their proofs are caving in. The be ie has gone through 33 directors and 36 years. More cultural sensitivity is unlikely to do the trick either. After the media watch the National Campaign to get the owner of the Washington Redskins to change his teams name, the Washington Post did a survey and found nine in 10 indians could not care less about that in a team, which is not surprising. If your community is facing an epidemic of adolescent suicide, would nfl mascots be the top of your list of concerns . The tragedy of American Indian policy demands immediate examination, not only because they make the lives of millions american citizens harder and more dangerous, but also because they are a microcosm of everything that has gone wrong with modern liberal as some. Theres a result of decades of politicians and bureaucrats showering the demise people with money and sensitivity instead of what they truly need, the autonomy, education and Legal Protection to improve their own situation. American indians, like all americans, must be able to avail themselves of the economic and legal freedom that this country guarantees. Until then, it will remain mired in poverty and the kind of anger that comes from knowing your faith is controlled by an ineffective and illinformed bureaucracy. The solutions are not equal, but they could start with education. The states that have the largest indian populations are also some of the ones that are have no charter laws. These children have no alternative to places like wounded knee because no one is allowed to offer one. We could start to scale back some of the regulation in washington, allowing indians to develop Natural Resources without having to tap every spring through the bie and some legislators are working to curb the power of that agency, but ultimately it will be hard to undo this Economic Disaster without Real Property rights. A number of tribes in canada are pushing legislation called the first nation Property Ownership act, which would create a Legal Framework for individual members to Access Capital through secure Property Rights. They see reserve land, which treated similarly to our reservations here as becoming more like cities, even if the land were sold it would still remain part of this just as no one can sell a part of new york city. Individuals at every route would do this themselves without the oversight of tribal or federal officials and this would allow for a true free market. First nation member of that went to lease their land would be able to do so without seeking permission from the National Government and those who wanted to sell their property would be able to select the highest bidder regardless of race, take the money and put it to use for themselves and their families. Finally, those who want to keep their land would be able to borrow against it, build a home or start a business and as one indian from North Carolina tommy , quote the only solution i see is two to fight everything up and give it to the native American Families and let them dispersant, spend it, keep it, whatever. I dont need no government taking care of me. This kind of freedom, he said, thats why the pilgrims left europe. Thank you very much. [applause]. I can take questions. I assumed you interviewed officials as well. What if they have two say to make i did not interview a lot of the officials because most of it was on the ground at the reservation. The bia is made up of 75 of native americans. I think a lot of people misunderstand it as some sort of like internal as bureaucracy thats imposing its will, but i think that they see their job as essentially the way a lot of people see reservations now, which is the last best hope for protecting the rights of American Indians and just as i think of many bureaucrats in washington see regulations as a way of protecting the people who are the heart of them, so its not much different with the bia, but when you talk to people on the ground about the way that these regulations are interfering with their daytoday lives and any kind of even a small four note commerce that they may engage in , the results are different from the intention. Im curious to know what some of the advantages are to native americans living on these reservations versus integrating within other urban societies and whatnot and also the rights of what are the differences between the rights of American Indians versus allamericans . Coming what is the advantage of stain . So, i mean, one question i got a lot and i dont know if this is what you want to know, but why dont they leave, i mean, that is kind of at the heart of this question and i think there are several reasons behind that. First, we kind of naturally i think we grow up in a place in its home and we know it as home and that may be more of the caissons of these reservations because there is such an extreme sense of isolation. Some of these reservations, you flatter rapid city, south dakota, and then drive 100 miles. Theres nothing around. Your gps is not work in your cell phone may not work. When of the things i was noticing because ive done a lot of research on families who live in inner cities and one of the differences between rural and urban poverty is in an urban setting and the sound bronx, for instance, chances are if you are a child you see people in the middle class can onto the subway every day and go to jobs. If you are living on a reservation you may not have anyone in your immediate family with any kind of employment. You may not have anyone in your immediate family who is not does not have a problem with drug or alcohol use. You may not have anyone who has a High School Education. Of there are all of these aspects of life that seem normal to most middleclass americans that would seem like life on another planet to some of the People Living in these communities, so the isolation is definitely one part of it and in terms of the advantages i think its not as if People Living on these reservations would immediately save moved to rapid city, and find themselves rolling and though, i mean, there would be even if you had the wherewithal to leave the reservation, you would still be coming at it with inferior education, so you would be trying to get yourself into a workforce and obviously there would be more opportunities for employment, but you may not be very qualified for any of those opportunities because of the disadvantages you have had until that point. In terms of what right thats interesting coming there are Many Americans that dont realize American Indians are american citizens. Thats a fundamental thing that want to talk to audiences, i mean, i think some of the talks you hear about tribal sovereignty actually has this impact on its audience where they think, are you like a citizen of another country or are you really part of the us. American indians are American City and citizens and they should have all of these rights. When you look at it and i did not get into it too much, but the book gets into all these questions about what the actual rights they are being denied, so for instance freedom of the press on some of these reservations is severely restricted. If the tribe does not like what a local newspapers written about some tribal law that has been tapped or something they have said about tribal legislators, they will ban or could ban the news newspaper from being sold on the reservation. There was just a Supreme Court case this year about the rights of people in trouble court and there is a question about whether you have been granted due process and the trouble court. The association for defense lawyers in the us has actually written several letters to congress complaining that people who have been accused in certain kinds of cases have not been granted the right to lawyer, granted the light right to a speedy trial and all these things we take for granted in the rest of the course of us as a residence of an indian territory. You might be denied. I think the biggest question sorry to go on so long with your answer, but i think for me one of the biggest questions about the right thing denied has to do with indian Child Welfare act that you may be familiar with, which actually gives cry tribes they say in custodial battles over children. In case of a divorce or death of parents, even in cases where an indian woman like a pregnant and she might want to give her child up for adoption to another family, a tribe can come in and say if you are a child who has a drop of indian blood in you, the tribe could say no, we dont think that you should be raised by white family members. No, we dont think that pregnant mother should be able to give up her child for adoption to a white family, so a lot of these decisions are made differently for indian children than for children of any other race. They are not being the cases are not decided in the best interest of the child which is the standard for any other case. They are being decided what is in the best interest of the tribe, so the some of the rights that are really aside from the economic rights and was talking about an economic freedoms, those are some of the rights american citizens have that a lot of American Indians unfortunately do not. Have you noticed that the directors and officials in the bia, is there a correlation for how long they have not lived or resided on a reservation and how often they go back to find out how the policies and regulations are actually playing out on the reserve land versus those that remain and might try to be politically involved . I have not studied that. I dont know. Do know that there are bia officials who have contact with people on the reservation or there are bia officials who live on the reservation. I think the other thing you get beside from this answer about how these policies are offered with the best intentions and how these regulations are promulgated in the best interests of indians is this question about money and, i think, the line you hear from the leadership of the tribe and sometimes from bia officials is that they are underfunded. Is a question of if only we had another grant program, another federal allocation, whether its for housing or school or health programs. Then we would be able to fix all of this and increasingly what was interesting was that as i talk to American Indians on the reservations, particularly those that are older. I felt like they had heard this line a lot over the years and had always felt like the next program around the band was going to be the one that saved them and they had become quite cynical about that possibility because they had seen the money, and either there is a great deal of corruption on these reservations, the money had not onto where was promise or the money had gone to where it was promised, but it had not spurred the economic growth, the kind of educational qualities, the kinds of things that were promised and i think that overall especially again older indians on the reservation felt like that line had been played out. I wanted to ask about the ideological divide are and what their perceptions are because as americans where more multi cultural and children in Public Schools and you have mentioned the handling we do over mascot names and things like that. Do they have a perception given what they said about teach for america workers who are not allowed to teach and said there is whiteness to america and they will not be welcomed, i mean, aside from the economic incentives, but is there a perception that we are not a Multicultural Society . Some of these reservations are multicultural themselves. I mean, there is plenty of intermarriage with people outside the reservation and its rare to find someone who does not have what they would call mixed blood. My father was white and my mother was indian and its certainly not in uncommon story, so i dont think they believe that america is this vast white universe where they would not be welcome, but i think that message on the reservation, the one they are getting from tribal leaders and in many cases from school is one of the victimization. Its one where the problems we are experiencing here can be blamed on things outside of our control and as i said i mean some of these policies certainly are outside of their control and i was actually kind of torn when trying to figure out the audience for this book because in some ways you want to go to washington and change these policies, but these are people you want to give more control, but the point of changing these policies would be to get more freedom back to them and to help them see themselves less as victims because more of this power would reside there. Even on the tribal level, i mean, i mentioned this in passing this question of teach for america folks being too white. It is just shocking how often this accusation is turn around by tribal officials. I was at the red cloud indian school, which is a Catholic School on pine ridge and another one, saint la brea school which is in between the northern cheyenne and the Crow Reservation montana. Both of these schools are the only good thing around the. I mean, they are offering kids a decent education and they actually send quite a view kids to college each year. They have standards and they are providing kids with so much. They provide them with afterschool tutoring. One of the schools actually both schools provide you with free boarding. There is no tuition required to work its all outside donations that are making these schools operate and if you talk to the leaders of the tribes were these schools are you get nothing but insults about these schools. Oh, they are creaming the best of our students. Oh, this is just the legacy of the boarding school and certainly the boarding school question is something we hear a lot about. Its almost all problems, i think, on the reservation you will hear at some point someone talk about the boarding school weathers alcoholism sexual abuse that goes on, economic problems and, i think, whats interesting is the links to which especially these two schools that ive visited have gone to to make up for that. Both of these schools are completely run by American Indians. There is not a white person in the administration of these schools, so the person who runs the state la brea school is half pro half northern cheyenne and almost all the teachers are native americans. They will bring in people from the just what the volunteer to help out because there is not a lot of qualified teachers on the reservation, i mean, this woman who went and fired half of her staff, her whole staff in her elementary school, you know, what she did was hired teachers from another local elementary school, which now has a teaching a shortage. On time ridge there are typically classrooms about 40, 50 classrooms i have no teachers , so the idea that you can just sort of say i like you. You are too white. I wont have you, i mean, these kids need some kind of quality. They need some kind of educated adult at the front of the room offering them some tools for the future and the kinds of objections you hear would be deeply worrisome to parents who are on the reservation who want Something Better for their kids. I was wondering, i dont know that much about this, but how does the situation with the indians in canada differ . The reserve a system is to our reservation system in a sense that they dont have Property Rights and whats different is that people in canada have more political power in part, its because they make up a slightly greater portion of the population, but its action of the population is concentrated particularly in areas like British Columbia where they would have a great deal of say over provincial policies. Indians might make up a similar proportion of the population in montana or south dakota, but those are only one of the 50 states that we have, so they will not have the same degree of influence. Its interesting because that policy certainly got they have had a lot of pushback from other first nation leaders on that proposal. What i think is so attractive to me and many indians about that proposal is it actually is a talked in law, so if you are a tribe that once Property Rights, that is ready for this and feels like you have enough autonomy, you can opt into this Property Ownership act. If your tribe feels you are being protected and feels like the last thing standing between you and white people taking over your land tomorrow is the reserve system, you can keep it, i mean, if you like your land you can keep it. I think that they have actually managed to reassure a lot of first nation leaders by saying look, this is an option and i think a lot of first nation leaders have signed on because they have been experiencing this frustration for 70 years and they have similar Natural Resource questions especially in British Columbia, which is rich with Natural Resources and one of the places i visited is so interesting there with the dark contrast you see on one side of the river from the other. I compare it to the north korea south korea difference because if you look at it at night you see almost all lights on the reserve side of the river because there is no developments the homes there are almost all temporary, again because of this land question. Dkk mortgage to build a house. You can just get a trailer home that you stuff more of your family members into, so despite the fact that this area is not only rich with Natural Resources , but its gorgeous and tourists flock in and out of it all the time and the side of the river that is not reserved land is flourishing. While you go to the other side, you see anything falling apart and its also really i think an amazing lesson in what ownership means, i mean, the average lifespan for even a real house on the reserve side of the river is Something Like 15 years and as a point at which someone will need to tear down and building new house because its been so badly taken care of. One of the things one more point on the canadian question. They have tried to get around this mortgage question a bit by having the tribe backed mortgages, so they will say if you fail to pay the bank we promise the bank as the tribe to pay. Millions of dollars a year in the tribe pain because their members say oh, this is your problem. You over this to us. We dont actually have to pay that money and by the way, and this has happened in the us, also if you try to make us pay this money we will simply vote to you out of office, so you can hate see how the incentives are so perverted in this system that no one has a pride of ownership. No one has the sense that this is a longterm asset to keep and everyone has a sense that this is someone elses responsibility you mentioned at the beginning the high rate of Sexual Violence happening in a lot of the tribes. Can you expand on that sum and maybe talk about the Tribal Court System and that impact. I do think the explanation about boarding school as reasonable as any to me in terms of getting at what the root cause is, i mean, you did have a schools, some run by the state and some run by the Catholic Church in other churches where there was widespread kind of sexual abuse and then you had these kids who were coming back to the reservation as adults who were clearly had huge emotional problems and did not understand sexuality, do not understand their role in the family and the result was, i think, they ended up perpetrating on their own children. What about now . And that is sort of the question i come back to with people because this is not a problem now, i mean, the sexual abuse on reservations are a problem, but the boarding schools are not the issue now, so the question is how to move forward to. Unfortunately, we have had a situation where we are not properly protecting the rights of women who are victims of Sexual Violence and children who are victims of sexual abuse. The us federal government, this is one of the cases where i think theres an enormous role for the federal government to oversee this because these are american citizens that need to be protected and is so for instance you have cases where the Tribal Court System, they are not collecting rate kits properly or doing it at all. You have cases where judges are presiding over cases in which their own family members are parties to them. You have cases again, even where the defendants are not properly given their rights took the rules of evidence are different, so on a court level i think there is a problem and beyond that we have had a couple of cases where whistleblowers, you know, people who have said what worked for the Us Government who have said a lot of this is swept under the carpet, i mean, you have the cases at spirit lake for instance, the one that made the news the most where its widespread whats going on and one of the people who said we have to make this public, we have to do Something Else about this was fired from his job for saying that out loud, so i think sometimes the impulse towards being sensitive, i mean, no one wants to say there is widespread sexual abuse on indian reservations especially if you feel like the real problem with the boarding school and that was the original sin, but we have to say it and its not on every reservation, but i think we have to think about the children who are the victims here and its not a question of who we can blame 50 years ago. Its a question of how we move forward and the only way to do so, i think, is holding the perpetrators accountable and making sure not only are they subject to tribal courts, whatever kind of justice, but make sure they are subject to the same as other americans are subject to. I have a question about how to move forward. I mean, you have described this her in this state of affairs and it sounds like a cross between a drunken download first day drunken down welfare state. What prevents new policy . Who defends what we have now is i think the system we have in place right now is a kind of partnership, perverse partnership that exist between the tribal leadership and representatives in washington and at the tribal leadership says to the People Living on the reservation, you go photo 4xy nz representative, they will bring home more money to us and we promise to fix your problem. I think the people in washington, who represents, the congressman from these districts have no incentive to say we have to put a stop to this. There is too much corruption and too many problems because they want to be reluctant and then there is the rest of congress and what do they care, i mean, im not just saying that flippant lee, but if you are a representative to washington from rhode island, from connecticut, what is your incentive to go in there and launch a crusade about the corruption on indian reservations or about getting indians more Property Rights . You dont see that as your job, so again the incentives are wrong here. The things that could be done like i said sort of at the end, my perspective of the lowest hanging fruit here are problems at the statelevel. I think that honestly with enough push, i think, you could see the adoption of educational alternatives in places like that the code or. One quick anecdote, when i interviewed some parents on time ridge and a few of them had recently gone on a plane trip to see Charter Schools in denver, and the parents on this plane came back and were blown away. They saw these at schools that were actually highperforming Charter Schools teaching kids the father i was talking to said the kids there did not even speak english at first and we are ahead of them. We speak english. About, it was a little bit of what i was saying before about exposing them to what other options are because again this kind of isolation gives you the sense that this is all there is, that anything else is beyond your reach and so to give them a sense of know, if you did push for Charter School legislation in south dakota you could get eight to open up the reservation you could get educational alternatives to exist off the northern cheyenne reservation in montana, and it would not be everything and it certainly would not solve Property Rights, but at least it would give your kids the knowledge they need to take the next steps on behalf of your people. Right now, they just dont have those tools and with each succeeding generation as i said those graduation rates, high School Graduation rate is at 50 and its been falling. We are spending billions upon billions of dollars to help Indian Education and its doing nothing. So, with each succeeding generation the failure. Just to start with, think that would be the lowest group. It is so deeply ingrained i mean in constitutional law at this point that its hard to untangle the Property Rights issue, but i dont see any way around it coming you are getting this question right now and many of you have been following the north dakota pipeline issue. Federal law currently says those treaties that people keep mentioning are not valid, i mean, we can like that or we dont have to like that, but thats the bottom line. I mean, we have sort of the federal government has said there have been Supreme Court cases that have said indian treaties were signed in the 19th century and they are meaningless and they dont have to dictate our current policy today, but we are still having this argument over something over a treaty signed in 1858, and the problem is we cant move beyond that. Instead of having arguments about taking the land that is reservation land, giving it to people so they can start lifting themselves up and having the same economic freedoms and opportunities that the rest of us already have instead of doing that we are stuck arguing about these things that happen 150 years ago and i just dont that is not going anywhere. Its not helping anyone and is so i understand why its not people dont want to hear that and it does seem deeply unfair. It seems unfair that we have taken this land, but this is where our federal policies stand , so i see it the same way i see the boarding school question. What are we going to do next because what we are doing has not been working and its been making the lives of American Indians were sent worse. Its not getting better. Who are the champions in congress . I thought you were saying there were some traction for the Property Rights system. There are some folks in the utah delegation, which utah has some American Indians and they have been trying, for instance to pass legislation that would curb some of the bia powers particularly when it comes to Natural Resources. Utah is engaged in the fight over some land that the Obama Administration was to designate as a National Monument, which would halt in many ways Economic Activity thats already happening there in order to preserve some cultural artifacts, but its actually indians on the ground who are engaged in Economic Activity and they have gone to their legislators and said we dont want this. You should figure out a way to protect these cultural artifacts without designating it a National Monument because you are interfering with our ability to earn a livelihood and so i think the representatives in utah have gone to some lengths to figure out how can we do this in different ways and also how can we make indians as partners in managing these Natural Resources in a better way than we have because the policies that we are in acting and that we are that washington is defending is so deeply paternalistic. Excuse me. They simply assume that indians are not capable of doing for themselves and i think the Research Shows otherwise. I mean, there have been papers i have looked at when indians have been put in charge of Natural Resources, on or near by their land were done in partnership with the federal government, the results in more mentally and the results for their people, economically turn out much better than when you just have some guy from the bia saying this is how we are going to do this. Obviously, its a very complex issue and issues and situations, but every time the policies, its just not looking at the next generation to come and i take it its a multigenerational approach and needs to have ultimate respect of how each of the vigil people live in unreserved land sees what they want the future to be and not taking it blanket policies for all reserve land because i also know you have land in oregon and Northern California, that are some for street in the street and then you have on the planes him like montana and south dakota where they are struggling with these rights issues and what they can do even surrounding it on the reservation, so even when you talk about education not just the current generation that is in the schools and that needs to be addressed, but how do you educate the parents and giving them opportunities and seeing what opportunities they have an ultimate respect of the culture that has been completely disrespected, raped and oppressed. So, this question of how do you its actually a question that faces every ethnic group in america, a question of much are we american and how much are we chinese and how much are we jews and how much are we africanamericans, i mean, this is the ultimate assimilation question in america and i think American Indians face it in the same way. One response to that has to be that the people who are most able to protect and secure their Cultural Heritage are those who have some kind of economic resource. If you are a korean family who moved here and you want your children to be able to speak korean going forward, you will send them to Korean School and they will learn their Cultural Heritage and you will go to a Korean Church and you will have you will devote some your resources that you earn from your job to preserving that cultural chaired heritage. Unfortunately, some of the people we are talking about i just dealing with basic subsistence and so sometimes when people asked me, well, arent you concerned about the preservation of language and argue concerned about the preservation of culture, im, but i think the best way to do that is to give American Indians the tools, resources to do this themselves. One of the best programs that you see out there in preserving tribal languages actually at this red cloud in the Catholic School partnering Youth University researchers to record the way people speak in traditional languages, so they have this preserved for the future. They are teaching children a whole curriculum of of the language to students at the school and also to try to involve the community is much as possible. Fortunately, it is too white, so it doesnt count. I think when you are trying to figure out the best way to again give American Indians their autonomy, i mean, this is what youre getting and i think your question about how different tribes have different needs. Yes, if you could each one of them there a thai man who is to say that the tribes you are talking about in the Pacific Northwest would not do even better if they had more autonomy to make these decisions on their own because even know they are doing relatively well, they are still faced with the same kinds of regulatory obstacles that indians on the planes are faced with an even looking at the senecas i mentioned i mean a billion dollars in gaming revenue. You would think this place would look like manhattan, i mean, it doesnt because in that time that they have gotten those revenues the standard of living has improved a little bit. Their healthcare has gotten marginally better. They still go to some of the worst schools in new york state and i said to the i said have you thought about opening your own school or trying to at one point they had talked about a partnership with a school in buffalo, which is one of the top prep schools in the area and the parents said its too hard for our kids and we are not interested. There is a local Catholic School that was doing a marginally better job at educating kids in a lot of the parents said no, it wasnt worth it to send their kids to the other side of the reservation. Theyre not getting any of these resources to getting their kids a better education because like i said these are some the worst schools in the states and they said we funded additional 304 Security Officers at the local Public School i mean to me this is not a community that has been lifted up by this money. This is a community its as if someone dropped a planeload of all of the on this community and no one has picked it up and taken the initiative to make their lives better and thats the difference between Economic Development that comes from organically grown businesses with people who have incentive to make their lives better and dropping a planeload of money on the people. Two things with the statement. One, i wouldnt compare other cultural that come from another country by choice they come to this land to live and try to make what they want and preserve the elements of their culture to a people that did not choose to be in the situation they are in. Why not . Why not . Because the the the perception that comes with having your land stolen from you , that comes from trying to negotiate with the government that could care less about your being and your people and that you basically lost and are continuously reminded of losing treaties, policies, negotiations , pleading is continuous re traumatization of the person and the people and so there are differences because even i sit here and im listening to try to find ways, which is why they have to be respected in such a way of what do they want because the way that the typical american or white american, which i understand there are statements that its too white, they dont need to be told this is how you need to live in this is what it takes to be successful because of some of the ways are just not even culturally sound to what some of them may want. May be what some want now with what they are learning, but everything i think thats terribly patronizing. When i went to reservations what i found was that people really wanted their children to get a High School Education and they really did not like the level of poverty they were living in and they really wanted material goods. No, i leak of this devolves to the question of well what you culturally value is different from wide i do and i dont think that is the case here. I think youre underestimating how much it they would like to see the kind of success that other americans have. What im saying is sometimes the how and the way differs and needs to be respected. Im not saying what they what different people in different reservations have are with their happy about, but my point is that change they want to see and how they want to see it often needs to be respected and it is key in the autonomy. For example, continually partnering with other schools like i wish i could remember the reservation off the top of my head who is taking ownership of education and they are allowing in surrounding communities and they are bringing in ways to preserve their culture and continue to educate their youth so they can increase their education status of their people , but they are doing it their way and they are being successful at it, not trying to take say a kit model, which some of these reservations are they say its too white they will feel that way because its different to say can only succeed if the quote unquote white man is telling me how to succeed in this is the only way to do it versus i have talent that can be cultivated and high have ideas to share. I guess we agree in some ways i think there are different educational models that would allow American Indians to succeed. I think that the reason that i keep harping on the tribal leadership who tells me its too white is that its only the tribal leadership who tells me its too white. Its not the parents of these kids. They did not go to the kipp school and say its too white. They went there and said can i get that to and to me the answer should be yes, if thats what you want, absolutely. Lets bring it tomorrow and im not suggesting that there is that