And though i am biased, i firmly believe it is the best one in the country. So thank you for being here. We are absolutely delighted today to have two unbelievably talented authors on our panel talking about the environment both past and future. Im going to start at the end. Id like to welcome maya cave and ross and to austin and to the book festival. She is an author. Lawyer and activist. For 30 years, she has led the Delaware RiverKeeper Network, which is the area where she grew up and lives now with her family. And she is the founder of the green amendment for the generations, which is the subject of her book, which has been updated. It is called the green amendment the peoples fight for a clean, safe and healthy environment. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome maya, keith and rossum. And sitting to my right is a gentleman that ive had the opportunity to work with previously, been to the book festival a number of times. This is Douglas Brinkley, who lives here in austin. He is the katherine sarnoff, chair of humanities and a professor of history at rice university. The president ial historian for the New York Historical society, a cnn contributor. That list goes on and on and on. Im going to cut it short. But he has had seven New York Times bestseller, many about the presidency. He has written about teddy roosevelt, fdr, reagan, nixon, jfk, and the current book is called silent Spring Revolution. John f kennedy. Rachel carson, Lyndon Johnson and the great environmental awakening. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Douglas Brinkley, who died in. I think it is always such a pleasure to be part of this book festival and so, again, we welcome you. Were going to visit with the authors for about 30, 35 minutes or so. But we will hope that youll be thinking if you have questions that you would like to ask, well save the last ten or 15 minutes to do so. Please keep those questions brief and as we get to that point, there is a microphone right in the middle that you can go to, but well make an announcement for that as it gets a little bit closer. Im going to start with doug. I was fortunate to work with you at the san antonio book festival when your book on fdr rifle heritage came out. This book actually complete. Its a series of three books that you were working on related to the environment, the previous to conservation and preservation. And this book focuses more on policy. Just introduce us to it and tell us how that came about. Well, when i when i was young, i really got interested in the National Park service. So i used to go visit all the great National Parks. And wherever i go, id see some flier about it was either established by Theodore Roosevelt or Franklin Roosevelt. It was amazing what they did in conservation. Tr. That was john muir. Gifford pinchot generation. They saved 234 million acres of wild america. Theodore roosevelt created the Forest Service up today. He created 51 federal bird reservations since which is the birth really of todays u. S. Fish and wildlife. All of us, everybody on the cspan audience, everybody here, we own 550 plus wildlife refuges, National Wildlife refuges. And the Theodore Roosevelt was the progenitor. Then i wrote that was the first reform wave of conservation. The second wave was when Franklin Roosevelt became president. Whenever he would sign anything in life or occupation, he would put tree farmer. And he lived his whole life on the hudson river and and he ended up creating 800 state parks. Fdr, most of our Texas State Parks are fdr. The civilian conservation corps during the of the new deal, planted billions of trees to combat soil erosion. Dustbowl the third wave and why its a trilogy is silent Spring Revolution. And in this case, it wasnt a roosevelt who led it. It was Rachel Carson from pennsylvania who became the great writer about our oceans and the forties and fifties. She wrote it incredible seed trilogy, the sea around us being my favorite of the three, but she was a super star writer on ocean oceanography and the shorelines, and jack kennedy was a big fan of hers and in 1960, kennedy embraced carson, who was helping kennedy run against nixon. And much of carsons ideas became the Democratic Party plank in 1960. And then her book, 1962, silent spring, came out and had a galvanizing effect because Rachel Carson, in that book, while it was primarily aimed at ddt, which was being sprayed, she also was a fierce nuke antinuclear activist because we were blowing up atomic weapons willy nilly and the nevada range was blowing and making children. Six leukemia went up. Cancer went up. And so her book was saying, weve got to rein in the federal Government Department of agriculture and the pesticide industry. And it really gave birth to the environment, environmental movement. So in my book, i write not just about carson, but this ensemble cast of people that were moved by carson, including president kennedy, lyndon and lady bird johnson. And it even had a hangover effect in a richard nixon. Nixon, after all, creates the environmental protect agency. Nixon bans ddt. Nixon creates the Clean Air Act. In 1970, mammals and Marine Mammal protection act on and on. So it was a revolution in the environmental. It gave birth to the term environment. It replaced conservation in the period really was 60. Jack kennedy running and an xl adamss photographs becoming posters and the like and it ends in 1973 with the passage of the endangered species act, which passed the senate 92 to nothing endangered species. And then the Arab Oil Embargo came in. Oh, concerns watergate and corporate world if you like. The Extraction Industry started organizing and mounting a campaign against all of those environmental win win wins that i write about in my book. And as you say, doug, that the backlash that came at the end of that era, which you referred to, is the long sixties here in terms of the policy, it was driven by mainly two things rising gasoline prices and inflation, which is something that were continuing to hear in this cycle. And as we hear throughout the decades. I want to pivot back to you. First of all, speaking of Rachel Carson and pennsylvania, you have led the Delaware River authority for 30 years and working very hard on this on the ground. I wonder from your perspective, tell us a little bit about how your work, particularly as it related to fracking in and around pennsylvania, led to this idea of the green amendment. So i really appreciate the opportunity to join with all of you and to join with doug and brian. Its a real honor to be here. One of the things that so beautiful about Douglas Brinkleys book is it really talks about the optimism around Environmental Protection and how powerful and important it is to protect our environment in order to protect the health and the safety of all our people. Right. The quality of our lives. And so we had this wave of positive first step laws that were passed in order to protect the environment. But it didnt take too long for a whole boatload of reasons that very quickly, industry sort of got hold of that positive movement. And rather than allow current additional progress on Environmental Protection, industry really started to coopt the movement and make it more about an entitlement to pollute that belonged to industry rather than a right to a clean, safe and healthy environment that belonged to the people. And so that is sort of the foundation where things stood when i entered into my role as the Delaware River keeper and leader of the Delaware RiverKeeper Network about 30 years ago. Its an organization focused on activism and enforcing Environmental Protection laws. And unfortunately, throughout the majority of my work, fighting for the beautiful Delaware River and all of its tributaries and all the communities that depend upon the river, i have experienced the myriad of ways that our system of Environmental Protection laws fundamentally fails us. It is a system of laws at this point focused on legal, rising environmental pollution and degradation. It is a system of laws that allows for the perpetual sacred fighting of communities of color and indigenous communities and low income communities, all in order to benefit the profit and business goals of industry. Part of my work has been throughout the years to battle against fracking and fracking for gas from shale. That is, of course proliferating in the United States of america. While in my role as the Delaware Riverkeeper, we have been successful in keeping fracking out of the boundaries of the Delaware River watershed, including the portions of new york, new jersey, pennsylvania and delaware, with in the watershed where fracking could have happened but now can happen. We have not been successful in preventing the proliferation of fracking in the watershed states outside of the boundaries of the watershed. The commonwealth of pennsylvania is a big fracking state. Fracking came to the pennsylvania in about the mid 2005 and given the state of the law focused on permitting pollution and degradation, a system of laws with lots of loopholes for the frackers, it was pretty easy for the frackers to overwhelm pennsylvanias communities and environments, but for the frackers they wanted to find a way to make it easier. And so they very literally wrote for themselves the piece of law in 2012 that was passed by the Pennsylvania Legislature and signed by the governor. And long story short, was a gift basket to the industry and was going to allow fracking to expand exponentially in the commonwealth of pennsylvania as the Delaware River keeper and leader of the Delaware RiverKeeper Network. I knew that we had to find a way to stop this law because fracking anywhere is bad for all of us. Everywhere. Certainly is bad for my beautiful Delaware River. But the problem is, when you have a law thats passed by the legislature and signed by the governor, what can you do . Mostly people protest or try to elect better people to office. But we realized that actually in the commonwealth of pennsylvania, we had a long ignored amendment in the bill of rights section of the pennsylvania constitution that recognized and protected the rights of all people, including future generations, to pure water, clean air, and a healthy environment and the duty of all government officials in the state to protect pennsylvania Natural Resources for the benefit of all the people, including future generations. So we decided that we could use that long ignored constitutional provision, long ignored for a whole boatload of reasons which i wont tell you now, but grab hold of that. We brought a lawsuit. We challenged this very pro fracking law that had been written by the industry, passed by the Pennsylvania Legislature in 2012, signed by the governor. And we challenged it, claiming that these provisions we were concerned about would result in a violation of the environmental rights of the people of pennsylvania and the pennsylvania environmental rights amendment. The case went all the way up to a very conservative pennsylvania Supreme Court, and in december of 2013, because we had a constitutional right, we defeated those pro fracking elements of the law and stopped the law from starting right before it could wreak its devastating harm. In the wake of that victory, i thought, wow, so powerful what we had achieved. And i looked at every constitution across our nation and i found that there was only one other constitution, montana, that lifted up environmental rights to give it the same highest standing as the other fundamental rights we hold dear, like free speech and freedom of religion. Like pennsylvanias what i now call green amendment accomplished. And i decided that i was going to change that and hence started the Green Amendment Movement. And that was the reason why i wrote the green amendment book and that i think i think what is so striking about that is something that so many of us would think of and almost take for granted that the idea that our right to a clean environment, clean water, clean air is something that we deserve and as a right given to us in the same way that we have rights enshrined in the and the u. S. Constitution and the bill of rights and what we have in the state constitution to assemble free speech, freedom of religion, those types of things. But youre saying at that point in the seventies, only two state constitutions really had that in montana in pennsylvania, yeah. Almost every constitution across the United States actually talks about the environment and even environment rights within the constitution. And many of those amendments were added in the late sixties and the seventh, the time that Douglas Brinkley talks about, but only two states did it in a way that put environmental rights on par with those other fundamental rights issues. Excellent. And then speaking of that, then toggling back to the federal level, because i know your work, maya, is focused on state legislatures and sort of working the remaining 48 states. And theres certainly been progress made. I wonder when you think when i think of putting together jfk, lbj and richard nixon, doug, i dont know that i immediately think of the environment. But clearly with the case that you lay out, i should have what was sort of foremost in their minds in this sort of series of legislation, federal legislation that that came into effect. And as you say, how was it that some of these things, which seems unheard of now, that would pass with near unison unanimity, was able to get through, obviously much different from what we see today. Look, lets just go stick with pennsylvania for a minute. 1948, the nora small ag incident, the entire town of dunmore, pennsylvania, got trapped in a killer smog where everybody either died or got rushed to a respiratory hospital. If you go to dinner, pennsylvania today, youll see its the birthplace of its really where smog started being talked about. If you cut to 1960 when jack kennedy is running against nixon, you cant breathe in los angeles. Its grassroots womens groups out of pasadena, in irvine, in places that are going and screaming about, weve got to have clean air because people were getting smoked. You couldnt avoid smog in new york city. People died and scores of people died in london from killer smog. Were just spoiled that we got the Clean Air Act of 1963 and 1970, and now we have an air amnesia about how bad things were. So you couldnt couldnt ignore it. And incidentally, pennsylvania gave birth not only to Rachel Carson, but harold ickes, the fighting secretary of interior under fdr, was the birthplace of edward albee, who wrote the classic 1968 book desert solitaire. It was where william of zannys or that found Leading Light of the Wilderness Society was from 1964, lbj put aside 9. 1 million acres of wilderness roadless areas. Go look at the wilderness zones places like the bob marshall in and montana that the other state were talking about right now. Texas ran a book festival, a book by john graves. Goodbye to a river talking about the danger of damming rivers and killing it in the sixties, there became a huge anti damming movement which and eventually won over lyndon and lady bird johnson. There was push to dam the grand canyon, the colorado and david brower in the sierra club ran a campaign taking out ads in the New York Times, saying this would be like flooding the Sistine Chapel to destroy the grand canyon ecosystem over these dams and dams are just pork barrel for the bureau of reclamation and the army corps of engineers. So in what happened was all of these people had enough. They couldnt take it anymore, and they mobilize. And it came from many different areas. Cesar chavez, san dolores, where to working for farmworkers and the united farm workers in california were dealing with pesticides that were deforming children. We had a need to save some remnants of Scenic Rivers and lbj got deeply involved. So we now have areas that are designated red, wild and Scenic Rivers. But the key figure on all of this becomes william moe douglas from the Supreme Court. And he has most to do with the work mayas doing in the sense that douglas at the Supreme Court today, this is all pre Environmental Protection agency. The epa is not created till 1970. So in the sixties, people are demanding an epa, a regulatory and that can call balls and strikes in that can prosecute cute polluters and bill douglas from the Supreme Court who wrote a book called farewell to texas, because he thought all of the Natural Beauty spots were being mauled and destroyed in texas. But douglas would do protest hikes. Hed hike 186 miles from washington, dc and maryland to save the seno canal. He saved it. He hiked in the washington peninsula to save roads from not being built along the olympics. So you can have wild beach in america. He worked in john f kennedy, signed Padre Island National seashore. Jack kennedy did it. Look at a map. You want to see how big that is that they became saved instead of developed as ticky tacky condos and and, you know, boardwalk like culture. So these players were everywhere out there and theyre hitting it from all angles. Artists, painters, you know, when were dealing with endangered species, is do you realize andy warhol did a whole series of photo or paintings of endangered species . Robert rauschenberg, the great texas born painter, did the first posters for the first earth day in 1970. Earth day 70 was covered on television nonstop. Everybody participated. Were in a Midterm Election right now, and youre not hearing anybody talking about cleaning up lake erie. Oh, cleaning up, you know, saving the rio grande river. We we focused just on Climate Change to the point of that one issue. And were not doing the job on being land and water custodians and, you know, Kurt Vonnegut wrote about lake erie. Its dying from extreme in clorox bottles. And you could have added to that. Agricultural runoff and you know an algae blooms and so this great waterway, the great lakes, is struggling right now. And the work to stop fracking, if fracking would have been allowed, its goodbye to where . To the delaware watershed that shes working to protect. So and the key thing i learned from the sixties and seventies activist came from all walks of life. Many where republicans theres not a partizan thing, but you cared about the american bounty america, the beautiful earth. You cared about environmental justice, where just because youre born of color doesnt mean your neighborhood in houston becomes a dumping site for toxic waste. John f kennedy signed the Nuclear Test Ban treaty in 1963, which banned the testing of Nuclear Weapons in the atmosphere and underwater. You want a big deal that is that we got an accomplish something done a banning of Nuclear Testing on the planet and and so its an ongoing battle conservation slash the environment and the shes often sold the policy cause people wanted to save polar bear they want to save the bald eagle from they couldnt breed because of ddt. Their eggs were thinning. They wanted to save osprey and whale and manatee. And so its a nonstop fight to believe. As i write in the book, Rachel Carsons hero was a forgotten name. Dr. Albert schweitzer. Who . Schweitzer won a nobel, and he believed in a reverence for life that we feel were interconnected with all of the species, with the noahs ark of species, and not build go hog loose on man or humans dogma eating the planet in a way that none of our fellow species have a chance of survival. I want to that so eloquently put, and it reminds me of one of the things that maya had said in her book, which, again, quite frankly, its not something that i had thought about, which is that not only are we trustees for the land that we have right now, that were trustees for the future generations that come, it doesnt belong just to us. It belongs to our children and our grandchildren and moving forward. One of the things i want to ask about when youre sort of talking about that, doug, and particularly as i think about where we are here in texas, im a native texan. Ive been fortunate to travel really every corner of this state. And there are two things that you encounter almost simultaneously and and perhaps, you know, in competition. One is our natural world. How proud we are of texas as a natural place. And then to industry sort of what is industry done, particularly since 1901 and spindle top, how its redefined what texas is. Maya in your book, denton shows up the Manchester Community along the ship channel and houston shows up the Permian Basin shows up. And doug in yours, when youre talking about the Permian Basin, talking about lbj and waterways, you call for a Lone Star Coastal National Recreational Area to protect that part of the state and in particular, the residents who live there. And i wonder, just from your perspective, coming in and again, since so many texas locations are in your book, how do you size up where we are right now . How would you size up the notion of a potential green amendment here in in texas . So the truth is, texas is really like every state across the nation. And frankly, the way we are and as a nation as a whole here in the United States, all of the laws that are written are focused on legalizing pollution and degradation. As long as you get the right reviews and and right permits from the right elected officials. So often people think that the laws are protecting us from pollution and degradation to an extent they are. But beyond that limitation, it really is about legalizing pollution. And as you know, i talked about doug talks about that the heyday, right, when all this positive progress was happening. But we really did reach a limit. And now our laws have stagnated and now we are rolling things back and we are seeing that those those legalized pollution levels when coming out of industry, industrial operation after industrial operation after development after industrial operation are all piling up and piling up in communities. So people are suffering from cancer. People are getting alzheimers, kids are getting adhd, people are having asthma attacks and heart attacks literally on the street because of environmental pollution and degradation. In fact, more people die from water pollutants than from war. Every year. And, you know, doug talks about all these powerful stories of the past that really mobilize Environmental Protection and the passage of these laws. But and notes that were not talking about those stories in the in the press now. But the thing is, those stories are still happening and theyre amongst the stories i include in my book. I include the story of gina burton, whose entire family has been harmed by nearby air pollution and because of a legalized air pollution to some degree and to some degree, government officials ignoring what was happening. She lost her son, kiwanis. He died as a result of air contamination. There are stories like this happening across the nation. There are stories like this happening in texas, in port arthur. If you go visit with john beard, he will tell you about how his whole community is surrounded by the fossil fuel and petrochemical industry, how this primarily community of color and low income community, every aspect of their lives is being devastated by the industrial operations. All around. And what is happening is, one, that pollution and degradation that is devastating their lives, giving them cancer, preventing kids from being able to properly learn in school, depressed Property Values and economic opportunity. A lot of that pollution is legalized and a lot of that pollution is government turning a blind eye and letting it to happen. Letting it happen. And there is no higher power. Theres no other authority that the people of port arthur can turn to. You know, the people of manchester and the people of houston similarly are being sacrifice to the petrochemical industry, the fossil fuel industry, and have taken various steps to try to protect themselves. In the case of houston, they tried to put in place a City Council Ordinance that said, look, the states not enforcing state laws. So were putting in place this ordinance to say we, the city of houston, is going to enforce the laws on the book when our industrial operations violate them and our state fails to do anything. Well, what happened in that situation has happened so often. Industry challenged that effort to secure a better protection. That was just within the last decade. And who did the who did the state side with the state sided with the industry and when the case went all the way up to the texas Supreme Court, who did the Supreme Court side with the Supreme Court sided with the industry and with the state and said, listen, city, your overreaching youre trying to usurp state authority in all of these situations here in texas, there is no higher power. Theres no higher authority. Theres no constitutional right to clean water, clean air, a stable climate and a healthy environment that people can grab onto and hold government accountable and make them do the right thing. When it comes to protecting the environment. Now, we dont yet have a Green Amendment Movement happening here in the state of texas, but we do have green Amendment Proposals in 13 other states, including neighboring new mexico. Right. Neighboring new mexico, where the fossil fuel industry also reigns. Supreme. And yet we have a very powerful Green Amendment Movement happening there. We have a Green Amendment Movement happening in washington and hawaii and new jersey and delaware and maine and florida and connecticut and every single one of these green Amendment Proposals is unique to the state. Thats the thing about a green amendment. Its a green amendment. Its not just any old environmental rights amendment. There are a lot of environmental rights amendments in state constitutions, as i noted earlier. But all pennsylvania and montana and now because of our work and passage of a green amendment last year in the state of new york, now in new york, raise up environmental rights to that highest constitutional level because they fulfill certain criteria here. Its not about cookie cutter language. Its about certain criteria. The language has to be in the bill of rights section for the for example, it needs to protect future generation. It needs to apply every level of government, not just give the power to the state legislature. And so when we advance a Green Amendment Movement, we try to create the right language for each particular state and the active ists that are working in that state and in every single state. The Green Amendment Movement got started differently. Sometimes it was because of an environmental organization. Sometimes it was because of a state legislator who wanted to do the right thing and champion environmental rights in a meaningful way in their state. Sometimes it was because somebody like you heard a talk like this or read my book or heard a radio show or a podcast and literally picked up the phone and called me and we got to work advancing the Green Amendment Movement in that state. Thats how new mexicos green amendment started. All of these movements are at a different stage, but theyre all powerful and people are energized by them. Just like they were. The way douglas talks about years ago. People are energized because they see there is something fundamentally wrong when it comes to Environmental Protection and they want to change that and they think it is absurd that people have a right to free speech and freedom of religion, that people have a right to bear arms in ways that is literally killing kids and families when they go out into the world. But they dont have a right to clean water and clean air. They dont have a right to the healthy environment thats around their community that they would like to enjoy with their families. They recognize that thats an absurdity and they want to see change and they want to make a difference. So theyre getting energized. And thats why Green Amendment Movements are not happening in every state. But they will soon. And i believe it will happen in texas soon. And i believe that, you know, we have to start this Green Amendment Movement at the state level because the states have a lot of power when it comes to Environmental Protection. So too does the federal government. But the states have a lot of power and constitutional amendments are really accessible at the state level. You can make it happen in your state by getting organized, getting active and speaking up. And so if we go state by state by state, passing constitutional green amendments, not only will we be securing power for Environmental Protection in the near term, but we will also be laying the Foundation Necessary to ultimately secure a federal green amendment because we need that to to be the next step in the another next step in the story that Douglas Brinkley writes about in his fabulous book, and i hope his next book is about the Green Amendment Movement and how we made that powerful change. The authors are maya kay, van rossum and Douglas Brinkley. Im going to ask them both short questions right now, that pivot off of their expertise. If you have questions from the audience, i would ask that you go ahead and stand by that microphone in the middle. We probably will only have time for two or three. So i ask that you keep those questions brief, but as people are coming through, i want to ask you, doug, and then i have a follow up to you, maya. It does seem like the news has been so bad, despite the hard work of people at both the local, state and National Levels to improve the environment. Do you see somebody on the political stage right now that you feel is the right person, the right standard bearer in this carrying these ideas forward, or are we lacking that person . I find it i agree with her on the states. I think its not a person right now, but the states. California. What california is doing by 2035 with fossil fuels leading the way. You know, oregon led the way statewide on doing recycling in the period im writing about and bringing back bottles and things. We dont even we just take for granted right now. But i find it im a professor and students are frustrated because theyre they do care. They want to get engaged. And some of them, theyll just keep feeling its doomsday, that its too late with climate. And i tell them, get involved locally, get in bobs. If you even if its a little bit to work to, you know, work at the zilker park to help keep your local park clean up, work to keep the Colorado River clean, you know. Yeah, work, work to save, you know, the prairie out water, chicken work to pick, you know, big bend National Park and become a friends. It doesnt have to be. Im guilty because im using gasoline, so im part of the problem. I have a hard, high carbon. You know, imprint. So im just get involved, start on a local level and then itll build up eventually. We need the federal level. I mean, there is no good to have Clean Air Act if you know, wisconsin is polluting and it hurts minnesota where the wind blows, you know, it does no good to protect birds of massachusetts for them to be shot when they migrate to florida. You know, it does no good for, you know, louisiana to try to clean up the mississippi river. If i was going to be dumping industrial sludge into it. So it does have to be federal. But to get started, i would go on a local level because we need engagement and you can win some local wins right out of the gate. And many of the people out of that dangerous smog incident i mentioned, a it became a movement out of pennsylvania. Thats swept across the land for seeing the congress to eventually do something. Well said. And thanks to you both. Since we do have such a long line, were limited on time. Im going to go ahead and let that well go ahead and start with questions, sir. You have a question over excuse me, who thank you for the very brief, but its good to. 34 words just product from the know the process of law be your very important here for so im just wondering in regard to air or there in previous groups because i think it can be a mere declaratory with no enforcement teeth and thats what were seeing and and National Constitutions that have tried green amendments theyre dead on arrival. So i think we need to have a compensation part of that or its not going to work. Thank you. So im going to, with all due respect, disagree the green amendments that are happening at the state level are certainly not dead on arrival. They are exciting people and getting them enthusiastic and engaged because theyre very accessible. You have to understand the law, how the law works. The way i do to understand that you as a person have a right to clean water and clean air and thats why the grassroots, including the youth movement, can get so involved in this amendment movement. Now, one of the things, you know, whether we talk about Property Rights or the the the right to life or all trying to get environmental rights read into existing constitutional language, whether youre talking at the federal level or the state level, but the actual explicit recognition isnt there. That is when these legal arguments are losing because, the language is not explicit and clear with our Green Amendment Movement, were not trying to get any judge or politician to read anything into anything. Were being explicit and clear. We have a right to pure water, clean air, a stable climate and healthy environments. And all government officials are constitutionally bound to protect those rights for present and future generations. And even when the very conservative pennsylvania Supreme Court was faced with having to uphold or strike down a proindustry law in the face of this explicit constitutional language, even they were forced to reckon with the truth. The people we the people said we have a constitutional right to a clean, safe and healthy environment and we mean what we say. And so in order to uphold that right those Legal Provisions had to be struck down. Its one of the reasons why the Green Amendment Movement is so powerful. And were not hopping to the federal level. We are starting at the state level. So we can build the education and the Foundation Necessary to be successful. But it is true that when there is a constitutional claim, there will have to be a balancing with Property Rights and other fundamental rights that may get involved. And thats part of the way our law works. But right now, when developers are industry clean Property Rights to try to and, you know, talk down, tamp down government opposition to what they want to do, they just say Property Rights. Yeah, you have to pay me and the local officials continually sit down and shut up. But now, now we have a constitutional right to a healthy environment that is on par with those Property Rights. And so that dynamic totally changes. Yes, sir. Transportation and housing question. And i appreciate what professor brinkley was saying about young people and one concern i have is environmental organizations that seem to be controlled or run by older folks seem to have one view of transportation and housing, and ill call it the nimby. I want my free parking and how and i want to live where i want to live. And then you have the environmental organizations that are more run by younger people that are more urban and id like one to encourage recognition of the societal cost of socalled free highways and free parking. So from your research and experi, vance and his short history working on what can be done to to bring people to better understand and not have these big divisions. Well, look, in the 1967, due to racial carsons book and the ddt battle to ban it was born really environmental law. I mean, the Environmental Defense fund still around a day edf slogan became sue the and that sued the still hold sway today you got to take lawsuits against polluters and go after them. That then gave birth to the sierra club defense fund and the National Resource defense council. All these groups still doing good things today, but theres so many new nonprofits that are really exciting and i think the key that i learned from writing about the sixties and seventies is david brower, the sierra clubs saying, have fun. Its fun. Its fun to get into these fights when youre young. Dont keep thinking its, you know, go take them on and you can see all of the successes that we get. If youre willing to take them on. So theres so many young people engaged now doing incredible bold things. And im and im hoping the nobody was hurt. Im hoping that my book talking about the sixties and seventies shows win, win, win, win and gives clues how to do some of those today. You know what a Big Deal Music was back then. Marvin gaye, mercy me, the ecology. Joni mitchell. Writing about, you know, theyre paving paradise ice and putting up a parking lot. Pete seeger holding folk songs and and rallies and shutting down things like bodega bay, california, saving it from a Nuclear Power plant, being built on the San Andreas Fault line. These fights are all over, all around us. And just, i think getting gauge which organization you decide to sign up to, whether its a new one or its a sunrise movement, whether or whether youre going back, you want to be a sierra club person or youre going to fight with the green amendment. I mean, go for it, but do it with with an idea that victory can be ours if we organize. And then all these groups need to meet and keep this green Power Movement alive and well in the 21st century. And it is alive and well thanks to people like maya, whos doing remarkable work, a bold grassroots work this one right here, remarkable and lets lets give her a round of applause for for. That. That is wonderful. Thank you to you both. I am sorry that we are now coming up to the end of our time. I know there are several people who would like to ask questions, but id like to thank cspan and book tv for being part of this and broadcasting and sponsoring this tent. Wed like to thank you for being here and continuing to support the texas book festival. Again, it is maya kaye, van rossum. She is the author of the green amendment. She will be in the book signing tent immediately after this panel. So go and see her. There it is. Silent Spring Revolution by Douglas Brinkley. This book is available on november 15th, november 15th. But we have cards up here for a preorder, if you would like to come get them. Ladies and gentlemen, please. Our panelists, a warm round of applause. Thank you again