Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20141128

Hell i was doing at the time. I didnt. I was just, you know, working from that place. Looking back on it, all kinds of things, while people are laughing. I denied we are having a message. We were about making an audience laugh. Charlie carlos ghosn and norman lear when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Captioning sponsored by Charlie Carlos ghosn is here, c. E. O. And chairman of the renaultnissan alliance, a corporation that represents one in ten cars sold worldwide, one of two c. E. O. S to run two fortune five companies simultaneously. He has become avtovaz in 2005. He led cars into the market with vehicles such as the nissan leaf. Welcome back to the table almost five years to the day since last time. Thank you, charlie. Charlie lets talk about cars like the leaf, where we are and how much a holdup is it in terms of buyer acceptance that there are not enough predictable charges stations for people thinking about an electric car . Well, you know, the fact that there are not enough charging stations is the main obstacle for people moving into buying the car. We have a lot of surveys practically in all the countries, not just the United States. This is the main obstacle today. Were lobbying in every country to try to support the development of the charging infrastructure. The leaf is the most sold electric car in the world. Charlie i do know. And alliance has sold almost 200,000 electric cars. Still small request paired to the 84 million cars sold every year. This is a very important step because we still see a big future for the electric car. Charlie the leaf is a profitable car for you . The leaf starts to be profitable. With the quantity that we are now producing, and after all the Cost Reduction that we have been through for the last two with years, we start to be profitable. So thats why we think that its time to push, because when you start to be profitable, youre obviously very motivated to sell the car. Charlie how long do you think it will take in order for there to be a wide acceptance of the cars . I think the development will be steady but not very quick. Regulations will help a lot. As you probably know, the chinese are putting very strict regulations on emissions and they are moving towards emission standards which are nearly as strict as the United States and this will force the car manufacturer to transform part of their offer into electric cars. Today in china, you cant expend your plans, you cannot because everything has to be authorized without proposing a new technology, whats called the new energy car, which is the electric car or plugin hybrids. Charlie you cannot expand in china unless you agree to invest in new technology that have a positive impact on climate . Exactly. Its defined electric or plugin hybrid. Charlie hmm. Whine is your biggest market. It is. Charlie it will grow fantastically, is it not, with the continued rise to have the middle class in china . It has grown fantastically. Today, 20 million cars a year, from 2 million two years ago. Its still growing 7 to 8 a year. 7 to 8 is a reasonable number, but 7 to 8 in china is 1. 5 million additional cars every year. Charlie whats the bestselling car in china . Well, the bestselling cars in china are a sedan that looks like the altima. It doesnt have the same name, obviously, a different design, but cars like the altima in the United States, is the biggest selling car. Charlie your goal is to become one of the three biggest carmakers, toyota, General Motors, volkswagen, you want to replace one of those and become third after General Motors . Were number four. We have a growth plan that should position us. We are forcing a different market. Its too early to say and were not targeting any car manufacturer in general, but just the math of the growth taking place should put us in the top three. Charlie how do you do it . I mean, youre the chief executive officer for three different companies. And theyre in three different places moscow, paris, tokyo. How do you stay alive . Well, i do. I spend most of my time between paris and tokyo and from time to time i go to the southern part of russia. But i say, obviously, it requires a lot of personal organization, team organization. Im fortunate to be surround bid very professional people who make things easy for me and prepare because, you know, when youre traveling the whole time, because im every month in paris and in tock owe, people dont care if you are jetlagged or coming out of a plane, they see the c. E. O. And they just want him to be fresh and ready to make decisions, et cetera. Charlie they want their time with him. Exactly. And it has to be quite a bit of time. So we just need a lot of self discipline and organization. Charlie you plan ahead by 15 months. Yeah, i have a schedule which is practically defined for the whole year 2015. Charlie do you have a secret to jetlag . No, unfortunately, there is no secret. The only secret is dont try to take anything, you know. Nature has to do its job. But you can help nature by being, again, very frugal during your trips and trying to adapt to the new country where you will be staying the next week with as soon as possible. Charlie youre not a car guy by training. You were at michelin where you spent 18 years or so and then game to renault. Yes. Charlie alan mal malaly wast a car job, came to ford and everybody agrees did a good job. Mary barra, on the other hand, grew up at g. M. Some people at ford have been classic car guys and g. M. As well. Is that all that needs to be a good manager and run a car company . In some cases, people who have grown up in the car industry would probably be better prepared to face the challenges at a certain point in time and, from time to time, you need outsiders, depending on the timing. You know, in the case of i mean, i take my case, in 1 1999i arrived in japan and had to face the turnaround of nissan. The fact that i was not japanese, the fact i was a recent comer to the car industry helped me a lot because, you know, i had no paradigms in mind. I didnt have any frequency idea. People knew that i was not involved into the paths of the industry. So i engage into a lot of transformation without prior baggage. Charlie but you were doing things also that went against the culture and traditions in japan. Yes. Charlie you were firing people. Yes. Charlie you were shutting down nonproductive plans. Yes, but i always explained why i needed to do it. I was not doing it as negligence, i was just saying we need to do that. Charlie or the Company Might not be profitable and might have to shut everything down. Right. So we explained why we were going to do it. We were cautious to say were not in the business of transformation, were in the business of turning around the company and for this well make the minimum changes necessary. Charlie its a Global Business in every way. Do you use the same kind of the same Assembly Lines for all the cars . Yeah, we do. And, you know, we are introducing a lot of flexibility in our system which means that in the same plant you can do many cars and on the same Assembly Line you can do cars of totally different design and different sizes. This is due to the fact that the new Manufacturing Systems that we have in our own plants are very flexible. Charlie when you look at the future, how do you see the future of the Automobile Industry . What are the forces that are changing it . Yeah. Well, i see first, its going to continue to grow for the very simple reason is, you know, the emerging markets are very low in terms of motorization. Just to give you an idea. Im not going to give you a lot of numbers. In the United States, you have practically one carper one individual. In europe, you have one car for two people. In most of the emerging markets, you have one car for ten people. So this is not going to stay like this. Were moving from one car for ten people to probably one car to three people or to two people, which means a lot of cars are going to be produced particularly in the emerging market. Now, these cars are going to change because the main trends today is low emission or zero emission. Second one is connected car. Charlie they want instant information. Exactly. Charlie all the information you can get through your computer. Exactly. And Autonomous Car, which doesnt mean a driverless car. You are in the car, but you decide to switch on or off. If you dont want to have your eyes on the road and if you want to do something else, you swish to a system that will take control from you. This is something extremely important. A lot of technology is being put behind this and i think with the three trends low emission or zero emission, connected car and Autonomous Car you can predict whats coming for the next five to ten years. Charlie of those, the connected car is clearly easy to do. With respect to low emissions, that has to be a demand on the part of the government and therefore you have to do that. The third thing, though, the autonomous versus the driverless, the autonomous is easy to reach . I think it is. I think you will have a lot of Autonomous Car by 2020 and it will be building by bricks. You will launch the first semiAutonomous Car in 2016, 2018, 2020. We mean by autonomous, selfparking cars, part of the Autonomous Car. The the fact youre on the highway and the system allows you to drive with the function of the car in front of you you keep a certain distance. The car will keep in the same lane, you know, because you can detect. This all of those, we call them a technological bricks. When you put them one after the other, you end up being able to detach completely your hands and your eyes from the road in a very safe way and do something else. You can do a video conference, you can do something very useful while youre driving the car. Big demand. Charlie an operative idea by 2020 . Yeah, in cars by 2020. Charlie why not driverless . Well, my opinion is usually you use a car to drive yourself. I mean, thats why people use a car. You transport your body and you want to do it in the most efficient and comfortable way as possible. If it is to transport goods, well, its not the car anymore, its something different. So, for me, whats very important in the definition of autonomous transportation is its about transportation of people and transporting people in the most secure, efficient and pleasant way possible. Charlie what do you say to people at google and places like that that are trying to develop Driverless Cars . They are testing the technology which is great, and we are working with them, but you are testing the technology to make the Autonomous Car as efficient as possible. Then there is a big question, charlie, is who is responsible for the car, when the car is without the driver. Where is the liability . The Car Manufacturers are never going to take the risk to take the liability for a driverless car, unless there is a legitimate scenario that would protect them from any abuse. Charlie there is always the talk and business goes up in Disruptive Technologies or disruptive forces. What could be disruptive in terms of the automobile future that you see . Oh, i think youre going to see a lot of disruptive zero emission technology. Today, electric car is the most popular marketable. It is set, costs are going down. We are in a phase of making it more efficient. But you have fuel cells coming. Hydrogen is a factor. Zero emission Charlie Toyota is doing Something Like that a. Were working on hired general. Carmakers have to develop all the technology at the same time. You cant just squeeze yourself in electric car only in fuel cells because you dont know what are going to be the regulations in the different countries. Charlie it varies from country to country. Exactly and they can switch from one technology to the other. In europe, 60 of the cars are diesel. In United States and japan, less than 1 . The reason for 60 diesel in europe is legislation, regulation. You know, driving people to buy this kind of technology. Thats why you cant just develop one or two technology because its not only based on consumer demand, its also based on what the legislature wants. Charlie you also must be be doing well in attracting the talent youve attracted because some are leaving you to take jobs at other important places. One of your executives went to aston martin, a job id love to have. Yeah. Charlie and other places to run their own show. Yeah. Charlie how do you deal with succession and executives who have trained to do their own thing . Is there a way you can find to keep those executives or is it inevitable that if theyre good, theyre going to be hired away . The car industry is very competitive and there is a war for talent in this industry, and talent is not something only academic, its also based on what youve done. When you do something which is remarkable in any field in the car industry, everyone knows about it. So you become a little bit of an asset not only for your own company but for your competitors, particularly if they need the specific skill to solve a problem or go after an opportunity. We hire people from competition. Its normal that competition from time to time hire people from us. We try to protect ourselves. There is no bulletproof kind of system, so we have to admit the only way you can do is to have a very solid succession planning by which every job, particularly in the top job, off list who can replace the person who is leaving and move quickly. Were trying to be as hard of a target as possible but at the same time being realistic that were going to lose some of our talent as well as well hire some existing with other competitors. Charlie how hard is it to deal with different cultures in each of these countries . Its difficult and complex but, at the same time, unavoidable. Particularly carmakers, today, are established on 50, 60, 70 countries where they have plants, technical centers, you know, big, you know, a big number of employees, and you want all of theme to be complete you want all of them to be completely engaged and mote intrietd what theyre motivated into what theyre doing. They need to feel as part of the whole company and being able to, depending on what theyre bringing to the table, to go to the top. Thats what were trying to develop in the culture. Diversity is a strength, complicated to manage, but you manage it well and you have much better solution and engagement. Charlie when you took over, you were at renault and then nissan came together because they both wanted your talent, its not a merger. No. Charlie its more a partnership. Exactly, what you call an alliance, a partnership. Charlie how does that work . We have two different executive companies, two different boards, two different headquarters. One in paris, one in tokyo. Charlie c. E. O. S. It happened through the circumstances that ended up because i was the c. E. O. Of nissan becoming also the c. E. O. Of renault, voted by the shareholders of renault and nissan. But i dont think its mandatory for the future. You can imagine a system where the two Companies Work together, each one having their own c. E. O. Charlie do they compete in the same market . Yes, europe, for example. Charlie so here you are setting the direction of two companies who are competing with each other. Exactly. But, you know, the opportunity comes from the fact that it is not so much cross shopping between the two brands. Somebody wanted to go by a renault in europe, in his mind, he has peugeot, volkswagen, et cetera, but rarely nissan. From the other side, some may have more toyota, nissan, hyundai. So the cross shopping is very local. I dont think any one of the two companies have felt obstruction coming from the other. Charlie g. M. Is having lots of problems with recalls. How do you assess that . Is it now that there is a notion that Car Companies not wanting a lot of problems as soon as they see even a small problem, and some of these have not been small problems because people have been killed, but theyre quick to recall because they understand the bad publicity and, secondly, they understand the danger if someones risking their life. Thats the reason you will see more and more recalls and voluntary recalls. Charlie exactly. You just dont want to take the risk that any of these recalls backfire on your brand. Its too costly to have these problems. So any other c. E. O. S are getting involved, im asking, very quickly, recall the car, and well see more and more of it. Charlie what do you think of tesla . Its a great competitor. Charlie he made the best effort to create a new car company in a while. I think probably its very courageous trying to do a car company these days when you have to compete against the titans. Charlie yeah. Whats most important is hes trying to develop with us the notion that zero emission cars can be fun, exciting, attractive, and thats why i dont consider him as competitors. Hes more into the premium. Charlie the higher end market. We are much more into the mass market of electric cars. Pushing in the same direction, making the electric car a normal car, something that is attractive for people. Charlie what does the leaf sell for . What does the Sticker Price sell for . Obviously, it depends on in what states you are buying it because every state has a different policy in terms of supporting. But i would say you can find a life as low as 28,000. Charlie the Dealership Community is very upset is elan because they dont want cars bought on line because you have dealers. What is your view of that . In our system we need entrepreneurs to rely the cars. I dont think we can do it directly through one consumer. Youre selling 8. 3 million cars directly to the consumers is something on which no car manufacturer is ready for. Nobody is doing it. Charlie what happens when somebody like amazon or alibaba says were going to get in the car business . You know, well, welcome to the car business. Charlie theyre simply a transactional person. Buying a car is, at the same time, a rational adventure and a very emotional one. I dont think you buy a car like you buy a refrigerator or you buy something which is strictly useful. There is a kind of ceremony charlie and romance. And the people come with the family. Its something which is very important. As long as you have the side of an emotional buy and a rational one, youre going to need showrooms, dealers, this connection, this continuous relationship with the consumer. Charlie hasnt the transaction changed . People because to have the internet people, because of the internet, they can walk in and know a lot about your cost structure than theyve ever known before. So their capacity to bargain, if there is a bargaining possibility, is better because they have so much more information at hand. The consumer today is much better informed through the web and particularly our own sites about the car and comes having made his own decision. Charlie he knows what he can spend and what he can buy. What kind of car, what kind of engine, what are the specifications he wants and why he wants them. All of this is done. But he needs to come to the showroom first because nothing replaces the real object in front of you. Nothing replaces a driving test. Nothing replaces making sure that youre going to have this relationship of trust with the dealer because at the end of the day something wrong happens with your car, its the dealer whos going to be taking care of it, so you need to feel comfortable with this relationship. Thats why, yes, consumers today working the showroom are much better informed and mature but, still, they need touching the object, driving it and establishing this very important contact with the dealer. Charlie whats the fear . Whats the great threat that worries you the most that you have to manage to avoid . Well, i think we need to solve a lot of the concern which are today around the car industry, the first one is emissions. Charlie right. Thats why were introducing technologies that are zero emission. Second a lot of people are complaining about traffic because in some countries allowing the development of the car industry doesnt go at the same speed which you are developing infrastructure which means highways and crossroads, et cetera. Thats why theonnected car is important because then cars are going to be able to talk to each other and it will have as an advantage you will be able to avoid traffic jams and congestioned roads because you will know at a certain point in time what is the fastest way to go to your destination. So avoiding congestion through connectivity of the cars and emissions are the main concerns because, you know, the car industry has been an industry that everybody considered as one of the Top Industries in the world. It fell a little bit from its pedestal because of the emission problems. So we need to establish it to its petaldz through low emissions, connectivity and awe autonomy. Charlie why dont you have a formula one team, nissan . Mercedes does. We used to have. When you have your own team, is our experience, and youre developing an engine youre selling to other people, puts you in an awkward position. So we felt uncomfortable with. This we said either we have our own team or we just limit ourself to be an engine provider for many teams. So we decided to go for the second option and today we are supplying the engine for many teams. Red bull has been for the last five years, you know, world champion. Charlie yes. Were very proud to have contributed. Charlie not this year. Not this year. You cant guarantee you will be champion forever. Charlie didnt you like the ego value of that, having your own team . Yes, but you have to overcome that. Charlie thank you, carlos. Great to see you again. Thank you. Charlie norman lear is here, the new yorker magazine called him the pugnacious runner long before that existed. He is responsible for sitcoms. Received four emmys, a peabody and National Endowment of arts. His new book is called even this i get to experience. Pleased to have norman lear back at this table. Welcome, sir. He is pleased to be here. Charlie i hope so. Why did it take you so long to write this . It only took me 87 years. laughter i had nothing else to do. I wanted to write it 20 years before i actually wrote it and made notes and had people save me scripts and going through correspondence. I had a pile of stuff when i finally started five years ago. Took me about four and a half years. Charlie you said the reflection on your life for this book made you realize how hard it had been to be a human being. You noticed. Charlie yes, i have. It is hard to be. The circumstances of birth can vary and some have it so hard. I dont mean to compare it to people across the globe. But just being a human being is difficult, no matter the circumstances. Charlie well you had it hard because your dad went to prison. He did. Charlie your mom sort of turned you over to relatives. Yeah. My father went to written for three years when i was nine years old. I lived with an uncle and another uncle. I lived with my grandparents. And i saw my mother infrequently in the three years my dad was away and my cyst snore why was that . Ill never understand that because i used to say to her, you know, through the years, as a grown man, where were you . Why didnt i see you . And she would say, i was there. What do you mean i wasnt there . Mother, i have no memory of you. She would say, please that was the end of every conversation. Charlie please, stop it. Yeah. Charlie did she live to see you successful . She did, but she never really acknowledged that i had gotten past 11 or 12 years of age. She never addressed my mature years. She didnt talk about them. I was just the best son that ever was, but every anecdote she had to tell was about norman falling down the stairs to get a laugh when he was a kid. Charlie being an outsider makes you want to get a laugh, doesnt it . Being an outsider on the doll. I was living with an uncle i thought i had to perform for, another uncle i thought i had to perform for and take care of his kids, and getting a laugh was the best way to feel comfortable. Charlie why show business . Why show business . Charlie yeah. I had one uncle and he used to i was a kid of the depression i had an uncle jack, he used to flick me a quarter. He was a press agent. That was the only role model i had. I wanted to be an uncle that could flick a quarter. That was my goal. Charlie how did you get started . I went to california i was a press agent in new york. Want to know how i got fired . Charlie yes. I got fired because i was making 35 a week and we had a show called are you with it which was a review. One of the acts in that review was Buster Shaver and his midgets. The lead was named olive. I wrote and a columnist wrote that Buster Shaver and olive were seen shopping fifth avenue. He on foot, she on a st. Bernard. Somebody must have said, dorothy, what on earth are you doing with items like this . Anyway, she called my boss and i was canned. Charlie she got you fired . She did. I came to california to become a press agent again and ran into a fellow ed simmons who wanted to become a comedy writer. Our wives hit it off, we both had babies. They went to a movie. He was writing a parody to a song called the sheik of arrabear. We wrote it together. When the girls came home from the movies, we went out and sold it for 35, 40 bucks, half what i made selling door to door. Charlie that was the film you had done that was first a success when you got the opportunity to create a sitcom at cbs. Yes. Charlie what was that . That was interesting. I was being divorced. I was writing with ed simmons the martha ray show. A fellow named phillip sharp came to be with us. He was becoming divorced. He had four children, i had fun. I sawed how are you . He said, all she wants is my joan davis reruns. So he was settling for reruns he created of the joan davis show. So i said, ive got to do a sitcom because it was owning something. Charlie Everybody Knows this because to have the publicity that bill cosby got for it, that Jerry Seinfeld got for it, you create a Television Show that you own, the network broadcasts it, they pay for episodes, but the real payoff becomes when it goes off the network and you can syndicate it. Seinfeld made up to 500 million. I was smart enough to know i need add Business Partner. Charlie yeah. I found a fellow named jerry parensho who was a great man, and he became my Business Partner and he made it a business. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven shows on the air. I wouldnt have known how to make a business of it, he did that. Charlie have any sense of the dollar value of revenue for all the shows that you created in syndication . We sold the shows to the Cocacola Company, of all, the library of shows to the Cocacola Company a great many years ago. And the title of this book derives from the fact that despite taking down a whole bunch of money, i went into business for myself without that Business Partner, made the mistake of doing things the wrong way because i wasnt a businessman, almost went broke and got a phone call when i learned about this, and from my soninlaw who asked me how are you feeling . I said, i feel terrible, what are you talking about . Awful. But, you know, john, something keeps running through my head, even this i get to experience. So thats where the title of the book came from. Charlie even this i get to experience, the fact he came up with something not very happy. Even that i got to experience. Charlie there was a wonderful line you have about happiness. It is pursuit of along the lines of excellence. What is that . I think aristotles definition of happiness. Happiness is the exercise of your vital abilities along lines of excellence and the lives that affords them scope. Charlie have you had that . Yes. Charlie you have been happy according to aristotle. And according to norman lear. Charlie so all in the family. Yeah. Charlie you and Carroll Oconnor have an interesting relationship. We did. Charlie who did you have in mind when you created archie bunker . An amal gum of people i had known and heard about and the people we lived with as neighbors and a piece of my father. My father called me the laysiest white kid he ever met. Charlie that line became famous in all in the family. It became well known in all of the family. And i used to scold him for putting down race, and he also said youre also the dumbest kid ive ever known. That part of it is homegrown, so i understood that. The rest of it is just what i felt and read and saw among family and friends and naibth. Charlie and Carroll Oconnor enhanced the personality of archie bunker in a big way. I couldnt begin to tell you the personality i had in mind because it depend opened the actor who performed it. Carroll oconnor came in, sat down, read five sentences charlie you said, hes the guy. Yeah, i wrote the words, he inhabited the character. Charlie a clip from all in the family. Archie asked sammy davis, jr. A question. Theyre always telling me im prejudice. Listen, you have been around a lot and seen a lot of people. Do you figure me for a prejudice guy . Dont tell me youre paying attention to those young kids what do they know . You prejudice . If you were prejudice, archie, when i came into your house you would have called me a bleep . You didnt say that. I heard you clear as a bell. Right straight out you said colored. Yeah, thats what i done, all right. And if you were prejudice you would like some people close their eyes to whats going on in this great country we live in. Not you, archie, your eyes are wide open. You can tell the difference between black and white. laughter i have a 2k50e7rooted feeling you will always be able to tell the difference between black and white. And if you were prejudice you would walk around thinking youre better than anybody else in the world, but i can honestly say having spent these marvelous moments with you, you aint better than anybody. laughter cheers and applause can i have your hand on that, sammy . And i hope yous all heard that over there. Thats from mr. Sammy davis, jr. , mr. Wonderful himself. And that should prove to you once and for all i aint prejudice his truth goes marching on you see that . Hi, arch. Where were you . I bumped into someone and had to go get my camera. Mr. Davis, this is great. No pictures , this is for me. I want a picture taken with archie bunker, my friend and me. One, two, three laughter applause charlie you still love it, dont you . Oh, my god, yes. Charlie and the delivery. You know, i saw something here that i hadnt really seen before, if i did i totally forgot it, and its the way that man said colored had as much weight as bleep as archie just said it. Racism exists in america in 2015 to the extent that piece mattered, yes. Charlie what was it about you in terms of what you wanted to do . You wanted to use comedy to have an impact on big social issues that were part of the american conversation. Uhhuh. Well, comedy is i mean, this is all a reflection. It sounds like i knew what the hell i was doing at the time. I didnt. I was just you know, working from the plethora. But looking back on it, comedy is intravenous. You know, you can slip all kinds of thinking in while people are laughing. Its like an intravenous. So i denied for years that we were sending a message. We were about making an audience laugh. Id say today, too, that that was the first rule charlie yeah, but Jerry Seinfeld used to say it was about nothing. Uhhuh. Charlie but you were about something. They were, too, human behavior. But we were about what was happening in our culture that affected us, what was going on with our kids, our relationships, our politics, our you know, it was hard if it was hard to be a single human being, i have to hard to be five of them. Charlie did you and oconnor fight . Yes, we disagreed about a great many things. Charlie because he became so identified with that role. Yes, and he was carrying a heavy burden. I mean, it was a big burden to be carrying. I mean, i think it started there. And he had a fear ive seen in a lot of actors of stepping out in front of an audience and representing something, anything, whatever that happens to be, for millions of people. You know, thats heady stuff. And he was an irish intellectual. Seriously intellectual. He thought things had to go a certain way. I dont think he understood the way we did it we meaning the writers the way comedy worked as we understood it, so we would have arguments. Charlie i want to talk about sherman helmsley. Take a look between Carroll Oconnor and George Jefferson. Hello, mr. Jefferson i, mrs. Bunker. Ey, jefferson there, how are ya . Listen the former invitation you sent by your wife, i think that was very white of ya. laughter thats exactly the way i felt when i did it. laughter george, why dont you take archie over to the bar and offer him a drink . Hey, jefferson i see you hosing down your morech yesterday. Yeah . When am i going to see you hosing down yours . Bartender, a drink, please. Any particular brand . Yeah, the expensive brand. What about you, sir . Scotch and soda, please. Yes, sir. Hey, hey, jefferson, theres a switch for you. This guy giving you the big yes, sir. Hes a bartender, aint he . Yeah, im used to it having the other bay around. How many servants you got in that mansion you living in. What do you mean by that . Let me tell you something, that bartender is willing to work for me because if youve got enough green in your pocket then black becomes his favorite color. Sherman helmsley. He was we didnt have i didnt have George Jefferson for, i dont know, months, and in order to have a male adult next door introduce the character of a brother or an uncle who was an actor who came down from San Francisco to play the role, until i or my casting director, one of us remembered his performance in a show called pearly, and as soon as i remembered that, you know, sherman helmsley, he was George Jefferson. And he came out and the fact that he was smaller than archie, you know, he was a little bantom guy, that was miraculous chemistry. Charlie maude also spun off from all in the family. All in the family was the mother dont say it laughter charlie here it is. You know, i have been thinking, there is no earthly reason for you to go through with this at your age. You know it, i know it, walter knows it. I dont want you to talk about it i didnt say anything, but now that you mentioned it, its legal in new york, now, isnt it . Well, of course, it is, walter. I dont your he is the answery. When they i dont understand your hesitancy. Were free, we have the right to decide what we can doen w our own body. Then will you please get yours into the kitchen . Youre just scared. I am not scared you are its as simple as going to the dentist. Now im scared. Mother, listen to me, its a simple operation now. But when you were growing up, it was illegal and it was dangers s and sinister and youve never gotten over that. Now you tell me thats not true. Its not true. And youre right. Ive never gotten over it. Its not your fault. When you were young, abortion was a dirty word. Its not anymore. Now, you think about that. Charlie you have said what . Just that you let it run so long. Its so tender, the writer. Thank you for letting it run. Charlie you have said you see more of yourself in maude than any other character. Because she was a reflective liberal. I am a reflective liberal. You know, i dont know as much as i wish i did. I dont know, certainly at this age, as much as most people think i know. You know, at 88, even 80, you know, 89, once i hit 90, i can get applause crossing a room, and im thought to be so wise at 92, and im the same guy i was at 75. I am reflectably full of emotion, i know a great deal about a lot of things, but i am not anybodys wise man or expert. I am just somebody charlie but because you are norman lear, they put that into their perception of you. Yes. Charlie and because he created people for the american way and he was a voice for liberalism. And he turned 90. Charlie and he turned 90. And something happened at 90 with other people. Charlie what would you change about the life norman lear has lived so far . Now, this is going to sound youre not concerned about diabetes or anything. Charlie no. I wouldnt change a thing because i believe that, if this moment is right and i love this moment, then everything that led up to it had to be, just had to be. Charlie i agree with that. The idea is that you had to go through all the things that you went through in order to be where you are today. Right. Charlie so to say i wish it hadnt been that way would be to deny who you are. Absolutely. Charlie you created a show called aka pablo. Yes. Charlie we all thought you had the golden touch. We thought norman could do no wrong, but you created a show about an hispanic family. About an hispanic family. Charlie didnt work with. I told the network that we were living the american immigrant experience. You know, when the jews came here, the irish, the italians, when they came here, they lived up the[xreet, down the street, across the street from each other. They were gathered in a place. At that time, the only fresh immigrant experience were the latinos, who were living up the street. There would be 17 characters, it was going to take time to get used to them. They were some wonderful actors. I think if they had let more than six shows go we only did six shows. If they had let 14 shows that perhaps might have caught on or 32 shows, thats whats happening with all the shows that are succeeding on the nonnetworks today. Charlie right. They have time to develop. They have time to develop. Charlie same thing about 60 minutes, they had time to develop. They put them on sunday evening at the time they did and there was time to develop and build an audience. I mean, its like movies. If you dont make it on friday night, you dont make it. That works with the same way. I have been trying to for three years to get a show about your generation and mine and maybe the one above mine and below yours. Charlie yes. People in retirement, in a lovely retirement village, you know, where they run from 60 to 95, 105. Charlie and that age group has huge spending power. They have the most expendable income, and they are the largest growing demographic, and its still 1839. Ask me the title of the show. Charlie whats the title of the show. Guess who died. Charlie you were a ground breaker in terms of the television you created one time after another, was that because there was something in you or simply because thats where you found the humor in social issues . I think its really because thats where i found the humor. When i was nine years old and my father goes to prison, my mother is selling the furniture, im about to go live with people who are practically strangers and somebody puts their hand on my shoulder and says, youre the man of the house, now charlie yeah, at nine. If you dont know thats funny or let me word it another way if you do know thats funny, then theres something to work with. Charlie hard to write this . It was extremely hard to write. Charlie why . Because i wanted to get close to i say in the dedication, i wanted to open my veins, another way of saying i really wanted to tell the truth as i saw it, find and tell it. Some of it i had to find and dig for. Charlie your wife, frances lear, had an interesting wife, too. She did. Charlie did you stay close . We didnt stay close. We didnt have great problems, but we didnt stay close. She says in there or, no, she says in her own book, its a charlie im going to read it. She wrote my life is like an epic poem with lines that rhyme with he and she, he is what i might have been, and she is only me. Yeah, that breaks my heart when i hear that. She wanted to be a star or everything she thought i became. The night that turned her life around, she says somewhere in her book, was an emmy broadcast when Johnny Carson was doing the show and came back from a commercial and said, welcome back to the norman lear show. She says her life changed with that joke. From then on, walking down the street, it was, hello, mr. Lear, this was my wife with. She couldnt bear that role. Charlie all of us can know the stories behind the man. Archie, gloria, edith and meathead couldnt tell them better. Norman lear couldnt have written a more touching tale of his life than here, in even this i get to experience. And president clinton, norman lear, hes been so successful throughout his more than nine decades on earth and how americans have relied on his wit and wisdom for more than six of the decades. Its also why even this i get to experience is such a great experience. I could listen to that all day. Thank you, charlie. Charlie your soninlaw, the great jon lapook is at cbs. He is responsible for the title. The next morning, he called me and said, you have to promise me we can bury you. I said, why . He said, because i want to take your children some day, your grandchildren, my children to a stone that reads even this i get to experience. Charlie thank you, norman. For more, visit us online at pbs. Org and charlierose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia n days. I have seen it time and time again. Announcer number one New York Times bestselling author and nutritionist Haylie Pomroy has discovered the secrets to Fabulous Health and permanent weight loss. Today im going to show you how to speed up your metabolism and how to use food to burn through fat like never before. Announcer for over 20 years, haylie has helped countless clients lose up to 20 pounds in just four weeks, and shes here to help you. The Fast Metabolism Diet is a paradigm shift that your body needs, and it will create a new