and by contributions from your pbs station from viewers like you, thank you. ♪ so pleased to welcome two-time rock & roll hall of famer in ducty david crosby to the program. he celebrated his 76th birthday and has no plans to slow down any time soon. his latest album is entitled "sky trails" and will be released this month. i'm honored to have him on the program tonight. >> i'm doing well, thank you. >> glad to have you back. i want to start with a clip that i warned you about and i will jump into the music. your friend and brother graham nash was on the program a few months ago, in november, i think, of last year. and i asked him about your relationship and this is what graham nash had to say on this program last november. >> david and i are -- have broken up as friends. we have treated each other badly and it's sad but it is the way it is. >> can that bridge be repaired? >> i don't really know. you know, i don't have any desire to sing or make music with david. but i have to tell you i'm a musician first of all and foremost. and if david came to me with three or four songs that broke my heart i would have to do serious thinking. i am a musician and i want to put positive, wonderful stuff out there. who knows. i don't know. you know -- david and steven and neil have been my brothers. i don't have brothers in my personal life. but they were my brothers and sometimes we fight and sometimes we don't. sometimes we write to the heights and sometimes we don't. we're brothers. right now, david and i are not talking. >> yeah. but if you're brothers there is always hope. >> yeah, there's always hope. >> i have seven brothers some of whom i don't talk to every now and then. i love them all. i love them all. when you see a clip like that, what do you think? how do you process that? >> i think a number of things. i think he looks terrible. but -- i think, i think he's right. we used to be brothers. and i bear him no ill will. none of them. i make music with those guys that i'm extremely proud of. a lot. you know, graham and i probably were as good a singing pair, harmony pair as the everlys. we were excellent at it. we did good work. we don't get along. you know, there's a life span for bands. bands start out and you're in love with each other, you're having fun the songs are wonderful and you're excited and it's great and if you have success it's rare but it's wonderful. 40 years later, 40 years later, when it's devolved -- devolved -- to turn on the smoke machine and play your hits, it can get very tedious. it can get very, very hard. we don't really like each other, as you can tell from how he was talking. and it's difficult. i think that the pressure of economics keeps people at it longer than they should. some bands can work it out. the stones. hello? you know. if garcia hadn't died the dead would still be playing. you know? i think, in our case we did it and had a good run and did very good work. i bear graham no ill will at all. but, okay, you mentioned the albums. i -- i had a burst of creativity since i left that band. and you know, if there is a god and you put you here for any purpose he put me here to do music. and i'm -- i'm making music just hand over fist as fast as i can. >> should we not be surprised given what you said, or -- should we be surprised that the bands that do stay together make it as long as they do? >> i think you should. >> over 40 years that's a long time. >> a long time. >> to have to have that many people in a band who see, obviously, creatively differently, get along. it doesn't have to devolve to this point but it is a miracle that the bands that stick together that long make it. >> i do think it is a miracle. there are some people who are more adult than others. if i had been in a band with james taylor i'd still be in the band. he is a sweetheart of a human being. i think -- i think it's all okay. i think -- i think there is one chance that we might get together again which is neil. if i hadn't -- you know, ticked off neil i think csny still -- and the reason being that i get an e-mail every day, sometimes several, and i get a dozen tweets and things on facebook saying, hey, csny was our voice against the establishment and you guys, you know, we need an ohio. get up off your lazy butts and put your problems aside, get csny out there and be our voice. fine. i'd love to. i like neil. neil just put out a very good record. you know, i'm -- i -- i'm one of those people that says never say never. you just don't know. >> it sounds to me like for all that's been said, you and graham ended up at the same place that there is hope it might happen again. >> yeah, sure. >> to your point now, david it would seem to me as you keep hearing from your fans if there was a chance you all might reunite now, there couldn't be a more -- time than now given what is happening in the country, in the world, in the era of trump. you have your own ways of speaking out about it individually. but how beautiful would it be in this moment, when the country and the world needs to hear that kind of -- >> it would be a timely and good thing. >> yeah. >> it would be us doing our job. part of our job has been to be the -- the one who carries the news from town to town, you know, the troubadors. the town crier. that's our job. part of our job. most of our job is to make your boogie and make your have fun and tell you emotional stories. and now would be a good time. our country is in dire trouble. you saw those faces. charlottesville. you saw those guys with torches. >> absolutely. >> for a long time in this country we haven't been willing to admit that they were there. >> yeah. >> and there they were. and they were not hiding behind a sheet. they were sneering directly at you and looking you right in the eye and saying i hate you. these are desperate times for this country, for democracy which is a great idea. >> you mentioned the burst of creativity that you had since leaving the band and doing these solo projects. the question i want to ask you that i've asked of others, whether or not music is still pregnant with the kind of power it once was in the day to impact and to affect to create the kind of c change that it did back in the day? >> music is a wonderful tool. >> yeah. >> for delivering ideas. one of the best. so music, now, could be doing a great deal of good. i -- a while ago put out a tweet to go to everybody that i could think of, saying, please, if you're a song writer, i'm trying to write another song like "ohio," an inspirational song for now for what we're facing now. because our democracy is really seriously under threat now. so i -- we need one. and so i've been asking people. if i can't do it, please you do it. i'm trying but we need that song. and it's -- it's true. we can at our best function, you know, the way "we shall overcome" functioned. we can inspire you to get up and stand up for what you believe in and the country needs it. >> i'm going to struggle here. i apologize to you and the audience in advance. give me a second here. i may get there in 30 seconds or so. so that david crosby is a great song writer. prince was a great song writer. stevie wonder is a great song writer. so when you say you're trying to write that song, i assume the gift -- the gift doesn't just magically disappear into thin air. so what happens with the gift of song writing that allows one to write a bunch of hits in a particular era but then fight to find that same -- you see what i'm getting at here? >> it's not that simple. >> that's why i said i was going to struggle with it. >> here's.it works. >> okay. >> you can at time have a run of writing that makes hits. i've never had any hits. i've been in bands that have hits, lots of them. i don't generally write hits. i write the weird -- what you -- what happens is each time you write it's a brand-new experience. trying to write a song about something this critical is very difficult. and you can't go right at it. if you want to describe the eiffel tower you don't write a song that says it's big and it's tall and made out of iron. you don't go right at it. >> is that why my songs aren't works? >> that's it. been trying to tell you that. you go at it from the view of someone who is looking up through the mist of paris at the eiffel tower over the head of their lover. you look it it from somebody's eyes. you humanize it and find a way into it but it's not easy. when you're writing a song about something that's wrong it's very difficult not to be preachy. i'm not a preacher. i'm a person who can say that's wrong. when america starts shooting its own children, that's wrong. we got a problem and that's "ohio." and we did right. it's a great song that did a right thing. i believe in the power of music. i believe in the power of ideas and music is a great way to deliver ideas. so i'm still trying to write the song for now because i feel right now we are as challenged as a country and as we have ever been. >> i look at the great song writers who in a particular era they can do nothing wrong. >> they hit a hot streak. >> but i've been tripped up by the fact that it's the same person, you have the same skill, the gift didn't just dissipate. but why does it work in one era and 40 years later you're trying to write another hit. >> tavis, if i could tell you, i would. >> timing is part of it. i get that. >> people get lazy. a guy can have a string of hits and then just get lazy or get you know, convince themselves they can't do it. there's so many ways it can go wrong. you can start doing hard drug and lose track completely. i did. and i stopped writing. i quit and the writing came back. it's not easy to write. you have to work at it. i work at it every day. every single day of my life i pick up the guitar and i fool around and try to see, i go, yoo-hoo, muse, come on over. are you out there? i'm awake. try to tickle it into happening. you can't take it for granted and you can't sit on your laurels. and you can't count your hits. you have to think about today. if you have stuff that really matters to you to say, then you have to work at it. you know, i may or may not succeed but i've been writing a lot. >> speaking of great song writers. i started a lot of notes for this. and i about fell off my seat when i saw joni mitchell. >> she's the best. >> speaking of great song writers, good lord. >> i think joni mitchell is the greatest living single on record. i produced her first record. we went together for about a year. i love her. i still love her. i think she's the best. i think it's her and bob, wonderful, old, weird bob. he needs to get on here. >> bob doesn't like to talk. >> he's fun. >> ehe doesn't like to talk. >> he likes being mysterious. >> yeah. >> bob and joni and she is a better singer. always been a better musician. i love her. i wish her well. i hope she will recover completely. >> yeah. so do i and live a long time. >> speaking of joni. you have some great stuff on here. >> that is one i want to sing. i have been scared of it. i wasn't sure i could cut it. >> what scared you about it? >> it's such a mag enounificente of music. the way she wrote about ameli r and her own love life at two levels. >> this is the first time i heard you confess this to me. what do you do when there is a piece of music that intimates you? >> go right at it. anything that scares you, you should go right at it. when you are scared of something, that's what you do. i watch you, by the way. >> i appreciate it. you seen me scared a few nights, then. >> i seen you handle it. it's not being scared, it's what you do when you're scared. >> it's fair enough. >> that's when you find out about courage. >> i was scared about graham nash. >> that's you and one of the reasons i'm here. >> i appreciate it. you do get a burst of creativity. but how do you put stuff out that the audience will love but that isn't a repeat of something you've done before because you're done everything already? >> well, songs. >> yeah. >> you can't, like, try to duplicate what you did. >> right. >> people -- >> but the record industry wants that these days. they want the same hit over and over. >> the guys who run the record industries are failed shoe salesman. and not one clue about songs. >> no talent. >> no talent. no idea what a song it or what music is and they're trying to sell it. but you can't go by that. you just -- i don't pay a lot of attention to the music business. i mean, it's pretty depressing for us, man. streaming kills records. we didn't get to sell records any more. i lost half my business, half my income, half my musical life. i'm making records but out of the grocery money and making it from -- because they're my art. they're what i do. they're what i'll leave behind. they're my life's work. they don't matter anymore. in terms of, you know, streaming just killed it. streaming people sell our music and don't pay us for it. >> how do you get motivated to do something like "sky trails?" >> songs. i love the songs. i love singing to people. i love songs. i love communicating and i got stuff i want to say about love, about people, people fascinate me, man. they fascinate you. >> i'm fascinated by people. it's what i do. how would you describe what "sky trails" is as a project? >> i have two guys that i work with as producers, currently. one is my son, james raymond who produced this record who is a brilliant producer. he is a brilliant writer, brilliant player and wonderful human being and a great record producer. there should be a line of people out his door down the block trying to get him to produce. he and i started collecting songs for this while i was still making the last one, "lighthouse." which was produced by michael league, who is the other guy that i work with. and this one, james and i, we knew we had several songs that we liked a lot. so we started, you know, collecting to put it together for this a year ago at least. and i think we succeeded. >> i mentioned joni mitchell earlier. there is michael macdonald stuff here too. >> yeah. he's a hero of mine. he's one of the two best singers in the country, him and stevie. i think stevie wonder, you know, i have a low opinion of kanye west. >> i read your tweets. it's not just kanye. you have trouble bashing hip hop period across the board. >> there's people. lin-manuel is brilliant. if that's rap, rap is glory. there's over people. -- other people. >> please don't say mack macklemore again. with all do respect, brother has been doing this for a long time. lin is part of a tradition and when you raise lin-manuel miranda above all others, lin raises biggie and pac. >> but lin is a better writer than they were. >> we're going to have another fight. >> bring it. >> i'm trying to help you, man. and tomorrow you're going to get blitzes again on social media. i tried to help you, man. >> it's like any bunch of people. there are some really talented people there. and there are some people who are just a joke and just -- >> that's true of every -- >> there are people who are brilliant and people who ought to sit down somewhere. >> really ought to. take a few seats and stay there, go to sleep. >> yeah. >> it's not my form. it's not an art form that appeals to me that much. you know, i can see exceptional cases where it does move me. but rarely. i don't like opera, either. you guys -- you rappers, you should know that. i don't like opera, either. >> you're not alone. >> i'm not singling you out. i think opera sucks. >> you know -- >> i'm not fun of country pop either. i like allison krause and union station. >> we are allowed to have our own tastes and to like what we like. >> and it's fine. thank god there is all this different kinds of art out there. that's one of the only good things that is happening from having the orange nightmare in washington is -- >> you call him the orange nightmare? >> yeah. >> i want to make sure i heard you correctly. >> it's generating some good art. there are people -- have you heard the todd rudgren, donald fagen song? "man in the tinfoil hat" oh, joy, it's going to make you laugh like a fool. you're going to love it. it's a brilliant piece of art. and it's about trump. >> okay. >> there's -- one of the only good things about this disaster is that it will generate good art. >> it always happens that way, though. >> it does. it's happened before and i'm praying it will happen again this time. >> i keep coming back to paul robeson and his quote. >> there's a hero for you. >> exactly. he says that artists are the gatekeepers of truth. that's what you look for in this moment. >> yeah, we need the artists who are willing to stand up for what they believe in. and if you believe in this country, now is the time. >> fair enough, "sky trails" is the new project from david crosby. i love the kid on the cover. good to have you hear. >> thank you. >> thanks for watching and as always, keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. i'm tavis smiley coming in next time for a conversation with jazz legend de de bridgewater. that's next time. we'll see you then. that's next time. we'll see you then. ♪ -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. good evening, i'm tavis smiley, more than a dozen states have found lawsuits challenging president trump's shutdown of daca, and divisions within the gop opened up on immigration issues, and countonight we'll t with that with dolores huerta. we're glad you could join us, coming up.

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