Transcripts For MSNBC MSNBC Live 20121209

Three weeks left to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff. Lawmakers from both sides hit the sunday shows to late out the latest battle lines in the fight. On meet the press, the number three House Republican reiterated that any new revenues should come from closing loopholes, not raising tax rates. The president wants the rates to go up, that doesnt solve the problem. If the president is asking for higher rates, hes asking for more revenue. Most economists agree the best way to get that is through closing special loopholes. On the same program, Number Two Senate democrat, dick durbin declared that if the country does go over the fiscal cliff, theres only one party to blame republicans. I can tell you i dont want to do it, the president doesnt want to do it but we need to solve the problem, we cannot allow the reckless position to drive this economy into another recession. A recession which the republicans will own. Joining me from the white house, nbcs Mike Viquiera. Mike, it sounds like the same oldsame old. Any new movement youre hearing about . We seem to be at a point where democrats are staring at republicans, saying were not going to put forth any new proposals until you cry uncle. Republicans say thats not going to happen. Until the president comes forward with some entitlement and tax reform proposals. And thats where we are right now. The two sides are staring at each other. Having said that, there are some prominent republicans, primarily on the senate side, but a few house members who say you know what, we should just cave on the whole issue right now on the tax rates for the wealthy. The president is holding all the cards and that way we can live to cut another day and cutting spending. Heres bob corker the republican from tennessee. A lot of people are putting forth a theory and i actually think it has merit. Where you go ahead and give the president the 2 increase that hes talking about. The rate increase on the top 2 . And all of a sudden the shift goes back to entitlements. And so corker went on to say, the debt is growing, congress is going to have to vote early next year. Perhaps in february to raise that debt ceiling that we heard so much about a year and a half ago. And corker says then republicans are going to have the upper hand in leverage. And on it goes, the president has shot that down, saying quote im not going to play that game any more. Weve got to break that habit before it starts. The clock ticks, the cliff looms. Vic from the lawn of the white house, thank you good sir, do proesht that. With good sides seemingly at a stalemate, does either side have any momentum in the talks . And if a compromise could be reached, what might it look like . We turn to our panel, a. B. Stoddard of the hill and the Washington Posts ed okeefe. A. B. Let me start with you, thoughts on what you heard on the sunday shows today. Did it make it feel more or less optimistic that the two sides can come it an agreement . Well, i think the democrats obviously are dogging on those tax hikes for the top 2 . Thats obviously still a problem for republicans. You hear people like senator corker agreeing with congressman tom cole of oklahoma. To give on this brings the leverage back, i think into the republicans corner. I agree with the congressman. That it gets it off the table. You get into the new year and you bring the big fight on. And entitlement reform, the real money to the debt ceiling debate in late january or february. Thats still where were at. Thats no matter what president obama says, about whether or not hes going to play that game or not. Republicans believe 70 of the country is with him on a debt ceiling increase and theyre happy to have that fight. So you really are, the possibility ultimately of us going off the cliff is very high. Because i think both parties are happy to let it happen. And have a new fight in january for different political reasons. Ed, we saw and heard from tennessee senator bob corker say he is okay with raising tax rates. But at the end of the day, it only matters what john boehner can get the House Republicans to accept. Last week the speaker indicated he might be okay with raising rates, he backtracked a few hours later. Whats the appetite right now for raising those rates . Is that something thats going to be an easier sell for john boehner than a lot of folks think . I dont necessarily think so. I think until we see guys like say Jason Chafitz of utah or tim scott of South Carolina start speaking out about the possibility of extending taxes for the middle class and going up, i dont think it can happen, necessarily. You know, and they run the risk potentially of running into a situation like we did in 2008. Where a deal is put together on t. A. R. P. Back then remember it was voted on, voted down, they had to go back and do it again. That if the speaker is not careful and doesnt keep his caucus in the loop, they could potentially turn around and say no, this isnt what we wanted. You never consulted us, anyway, why would we vote for Something Like this . A lot of them could face conservative primary challenges in a few years and theyre concerned about that. You brought up an interesting point. Thats something that folks in the media will be looking for the next few days. Some of those folks you just mentioned. When we hear them start to talk about rate raising, that might be our, our cue that this thing is about to change. A. B. , i want to play a quick bite here fromme Erskine Bowles. This is whey said about entitlement reform. The most important thing is if were going to raise revenue and if were going to raise it in any form, then we darn well better cut spending. Because spending is the biggest part of this problem. What are the chances, a. B. Stoddard, that substantial entitlement substantial entitlement reform is even a part of this socalled fiscal cliff deal . Well republicans are pushing all along, saying we could actually see a scenario where our members agree to rate hikes. If you brought the real money to the table. Aggressive entitlement reform. Some kind of medicare overall is whats anticipated. Because democrats have said theyre not going to touch Social Security and medicaid is an expansion of medicare. But medicare is the program that was in the offing in the 2011 budget deal that fell apart between the speaker and the president and the republicans are asking him to look at that program. The left is telling him not to. You hear a lot of talk about how they want to focus on the taxes and get us over the fiscal cliff. But as i said before, it doesnt matter what the president says about the debt ceiling fight. Republicans are not budging on taxes without entitlement reform. Theyre willing to go over the cliff and when theres nothing else to talk about but the debt ceiling increase in january, it has to be for medicare reform and exchange. Dollar figure on entitlement reform, what are you thinking . The president has offered 400 billion. They would look for, they dont think those are real aggressive reforms. They would look for a higher number and they would look for more substantial changes to the program. They dont think those are really getting at the drivers of debt in the program. Ed, politico today, theres an article on entitlements. Republicans ready to get any victory that they can. According to this article. The article goes on to say quote theyre going to have to lower their sights by a lot. From the big ideas they pushed in the president ial campaign. With obama in the white house for another four years, republicans are looking for something much smaller. Even a down payment on medicare. That they can still call victory. Is that enough on entitlements, ed okeefe . It might be in the shortterm. I agree with a. B. And i agree with Erskine Bowles that eventually theres going to be longerterm discussions about this if they want to get serious about budget cuts. This is is a president who has an appetite for spending cuts. He has talked about it throughout his presidency. He hasnt had a chance just yet. This may be his opportunity to do so and say look, i got taxes, but i also gave you spending cuts and we got serious about fixing this problem. If can he do that, i think he himself could declare victory. The question is whether more liberal members of the house and even of the senate, would go along with some kind of plan and thats why i think republicans may be right. Minimal changes for now. Probably a good thing. Whether or not it happens longterm remains to be seen. A. B. Stoddard of the hill, ed okeefe from the Washington Post, well check in with you later in this hour. Coming up here, its legal to light up in Washington State and in colorado, its now legal to possess pot. Were going to talk about what it all means for the feds, and the country with the reporter who has quite the Family Connection to this story. And he was in the fight of his life up until a month ago. Last night mitt romney took in the big fight. Out in vegas, live and in person. Plus, this just in. Announced we have reached an agreement to avoid the fiscal cliff. Snls take on the fiscal cliff fight. That and more on the sunday afternoon straight ahead. Lauren chun wanted to introduce kim chee to mainstream america. Shes using nonethnic packaging to appeal to a mass market and the product is now carried in whole foods and fresh markets. And we can save you 10 on ground shipping over the ups store. Look this isnt my first christmas. These deals all seem great at the time. But later. [ shirt ] merry christmas, everybody not so much. Ho ho ho this isnt that kind of deal. 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You guys must have your own loyalty program, right . Well, we have something. Show her, tom. Huh . You should see november oh, yeah . Giving you more. Now thats progressive. Call or click today. I said look, how about this, john, if you agree to a 1 raise on the top two americans, just two people i will dissolve Social Security. Dissolve it. So we took it to the republicans in congress and what did they do . Invited me to a pizza party. And when they got there, when you got there it was a burnedout warehouse. Did you go inside . Yes. And was there any pizza . No. And then what happened . They jumped out and pelted me with eggs. Fresh eggs . Rotten eggs. If only a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff were as easy as the president feeling sorry for Speaker Boehner as we just saw with just three weeks left until the end of the year at this point, anyones guess whether theyll reach an agreement. Joining me by the phone, joining me via phone from boulder, colorado, congressman jared polis. Good sunday afternoon. Tax rates and where they stand are at the center of this debate. That continues to be the discussion. I want to throw up something from the New York Times here. This is, this is, this is is a headline from the New York Times. Even if republicans were to agree to mr. Obamas core demand that the top marginal income rates return to the clintonera levels of 36 , 39. 6 after december 21st, the article goes on to say, the additional revenue would be only about a quarter of the 1. 6 trillion that mr. Obama wants to collect over ten years. Why should republicans agree do that. If its not going to generate enough revenue, congressman . Well, its a down payment on the deal. We want to make sure that middle class taxes dont go up by 2,000 january 1st. Thats something that i feel the president feels, republicans and democrats should agree on. Thats what we can realistically get done in the next few weeks. A straight up or down vote on the senate bill. We have a discharge petition to bring it to the floor of the house to renew the middle class tax cuts. This will continue in terms of figuring out how to balance the budget. But in the meantime, lets not take 2,000 away from every middle class family. Lets assume you guys get the rate that youre looking for. Lets assume that does happen. How are we going to make up for the rest of the revenue . Talking about state taxes . Capital gains, dividends . What are we talking about . Part of the deal if theres a shortterm deal that allows the middle class tax cuts to continue will likely be a framework for the discussion of these issues next year. The discussion of what were going to cut. Are we going to tackle entitlement reform in any way, shape or form and what other Revenue Sources are we going to look at. The clock is ticking for january 1st to avert a middle class tax increase. The tax rate going up on 39. 6 on income over 250,000. Thats a part of what we need to do to close the budget deficit. We need to have a framework in place to get the full length down the field. An interesting term for folks not familiar with the language of congress. The discharge petition that was presented last week. Walk us through the next step with regards to that. The next step is the senate didnt actually pass the bill to continue the middle class tax cuts. If the Congress Fails to act, a number of things happen automatically. Cuts to medicare reimbursement rates. Taxes go up for everybody. Theres automatic spending cuts across every sector of Government Spending. Even ones that are critical for infrastructure in our economy. So thats why theres such interest in averting this fiscal cliff. And i think that we can do that by simply taking up the senate bill. We continue the middle class tax cuts. Before i let you go, starting today, samesex couples in washington were able to marry for the first time because the states samesex marriage law took effect on friday. The Supreme Court announcing on friday, the samesex law took effect at midnight. The Supreme Court announcing friday its going to wade into the samesex marriage debate. As a politician who is openly gay, are we on the cusp of a tectonic shift of sourts with regards to Marriage Equality in this country . I sure hope so, those of us who strongly support equality are looking to the court to do something. Like the loving case that allowed for interracial marriage. Like brown versus board of education. Its time to say you have the right to be in a committed relationship with the person you love and the government shouldnt tell you who that is. Its a simple, clearcut case and i certainly hope the Supreme Court agrees. Democratic congressman, jared polis of colorado, do appreciate your time. Coming up. Someone get corey booker a super hero cape. The latest adventure of the newark mayor. Hes at it again. And then we flash back to 1992, when separation beset the house of windsor, stay tuned, youre watching msnbc. Eat good fats. Avoid bad. Dont go over 2000. 1200 calories a day. Carbs are bad. Carbs are good. The story keeps changing. So im not listening. To anyone but myself. I know better nutrition when i see it great grains. Great grains cereal starts whole and stays whole. See the seam . More processed flakes look nothing like natural grains. You cant argue with nutrition you can see. Great grains. Search great grains and see for yourself. For multi grain flakes that are an excellent source of fiber try great grains banana nut crunch and cranberry almond crunch. But hed wait for her forever, for any reason, and would always be there with the biggest welcome home. For a love this strong, dawn only feeds him iams. Compared to other leading brands, it has 50 more animal protein. To help keep rockys body as strong as a love that never fades. If he ever lets her leave again. Iams. Keep love strong. Stepped out upon the world stage now. The fate of Human Dignity in our hands. Bloods been spilled to afford us this moment. Now, now thats a great scene. Steven spielbergs acclaimed new film about honest abe prompting rivals on capitol hill to try to set aside politics and enjoy some popcorn, harry reid and Mitch Mcconnell sent out a joint invite to all colleagues and spouses to attend a bipartisan screening at 5 00 on wednesday afternoon, well keep you posted on that. Lets look at other stories making the rounds on the political playground. Who knew former republican president ial candidate, mitt romney was a boxing fan . Last night, in vegas, romney and his wife, ann, were ringside, they had some good seats, to see boxer Manny Pacquiao square off. Before the match, romney met pam y pacquiao in his dressing room. At which time he said, according to the associated press, hello, manny, i ran for president , i lost. So did pacquiao, it turns out things did not go well for manny last night. He took a hard right in the sixth that knocked him out flat. He lay on the mat for about two minutes, wife stormed the ring, she was crying, the handlers had to get him to his feet, it was quite the scene. The usda planning to pack a little more into the average school lunch in this country. Agricultural secretary tom vilsack says more grains and meat will go back on school menus nationwide after several lawmakers complained kids were not getting enough to eat. The changes this an update to a set of nutritional rules aimed at preventing childhood obesity. Newark mayor corey bookers decision to limit himself to a food stamp budget clearly has not sapped his energy for heroism. Witnesses say the 43yearold democrat raced to the scene of a car wreck outside the citys Hotel Riviera on thursday, where he not only helped the injured passenger. But the mayor helped direct traffic around the scene. In april mayor booker rescued a neighbor from a kitchen fire. And in case you hadnt heard he is at this point trying to decide whether to run for governor against republican chris christie, or perhaps for the u. S. Senate. Coming up, no cause for concern thats the word on Nelson Mandala as the antiapartheid legend rests in a South African hospital. Plus, should the gop jump on the Marijuana Legalization bandwagon . Might not sound like a good fit. But stay tuned. Well work it over in the war room, next. The truth about mascara is. It clumps. Introducing a revolutionary new mascara. Clump crusher. Crusher. 200 more volume. Zero clumps. New clump crusher from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl. [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of all day pain relief. This season, discover aleve. All day pain relief with just two pills. [ cheers and applause ] thats one of the fifrs couples to tie the knot in Washington State just after midnight last night. The first time samesex couple there is could legally get hitched. Voters approve the new law last month, making Washington State now one of nine states plus the District Of Columbia that allows samesex marriages. Im craig melvin welcome back on this sunday afternoon. Heres a quick look at other top stories making news right now. Egypts president , Mohammed Morsi rolling back part of the power grab he took two weeks ago which sparked violent protests, he insists referendum on a new constitution crafted by his islamist allies will go ahead and scheduled next weekend. Meanwhile, Nelson Mandala remains in a South African hospital on this sunday. Sources close to the mandala family tell nbc news theres quote no sense of panic. Mandala had sympttomach surgery earlier this year. And the fbis headquarters may be moving. Not soon, though, but perhaps eventually. The building sits right between the white house and the capitol. Its prime d. C. Real estate so the agency that oversees the federal buildings is calling on ideas about where else it could house the gumshoe headquarters. In exchange theyll consider throwing in the j. Edgar hoover building and the land it stands on. Turning to weed now, Marijuana Reform backers got a huge boost in november when voters in colorado and Washington State legalized recreational pot. Recent polls have found the nation just about split on whether or not to legalize. But businessmen are looking forward to relaxed laws on marijuana. I want to bring in tony decouple from the daily beast. He wrote a fascinating story, called the new pot barons, businessmen banking on marijuana. Hes got a book coming out as well in about 18 months. Well talk about it in a second. First of all, lets talk about the Business Aspect of this. This is not something that always gets a great deal of attention. But using colorado as a model. How big of a business boom could this be . Tens of millions of dollars, certainly. I mean demand for marijuana has been going up in the last five years. Theres been a three million uptick in just the last year alone and if legalization were to happen nationally, economists estimate it could be a doubling or tripling of the current market. What would a retail model for marijuana look like . It would look like what you have in colorado. Which is the only forprofit marijuana market of any kind. Medical or otherwise in the world. And they have, its incredibly tightly regulated from the time the plant pops up out of the soil to the time it ends up in the customer. And each, each step has cleared delineated rules to make sure the plants not going into the black market to make sure under 21 arent, getting into kids hands. One of the fascinating parts of the article for me at least was, the difference between how theyre doing it in colorado and how theyve tried to do it in california. Well, california has been let down by its politicians. So the medical marijuana has been legal there since 1996. But the state assembly has not done a good job of codifying what the market should look like. So when the federal government says were not going to crack down on medical marijuana dispensaries as long as theyre in unambiguous compliance with the state law, the problem in california is state law is ambiguous. You mentioned businesses. Ha about the businesses that drug test employees before they hire them. Especially some of these major Multistate Companies that have uniform drug policy. How do they handle that, how are they going to be able to hand that will in states like colorado and Washington State now, where its legal to smoke . Theyre going to be able to fall back on federal law. Its one reason why smokers in colorado and Washington State shouldnt celebrate too much. Theres still a lot of ways in which they can get in trouble. And one of them is violating the drugfree workplace laws. The book theres a point that it doesnt get made enough in the medical marijuana conversation. And that is the rights of biggest people. Whats the federal government going to do in Washington State and colorado. Are they going to allow the market to be regulated. If they dont, its a terrible scenario. Theyre not going to be able to stop the legalization of possession at the state level. The feds dont have the resources to come in and bust everyday pot smokers. So youve got a base of legal customers. If you dont allow the creation of Business People, a Community Business people to supply those customers, its just a boom for the black market. Your connection to pot has deep family roots. I understand youre working on a book and during the course of some research you made a startling discovery. Marijuana has been a part of my life for a long time. My family was involved in it, i grew in miami in the 80s. My family was part of the golden era of marijuana. The 70s and 80s. When it was being brought in on big boats from colombia and jamaica. Smuggled over the border of mexico. The homegrown market didnt exist. The basis or somewhat of the basis for your book thats going to come out 18 months from now. The book is in the future. So well have to come back to thatnd a talk about that then. But the point about the Business People is, in colorado, for example, theres a forprofit market. People are allowed to sell it, theres lots of patients who want it but because of the federal prohibition, the people running the shops cant take normal business deductions, they cant get Health Insurance for their employees, they cant get banking services. Its a big problem. It will be fascinating to see how it plays out. Tony doukoupil. When you write that book, come back. I will hold you to that. Its a fascinating article. Lets continue our discussion on Marijuana Legalization and the political implications, we want to bring in the sunday war room, joining me democratic strategist, Chris Kofinis, the former chief of staff for senator mansion from west virginia. Republican strategist joe watkins, former aide to president george h. W. Bush. Chris, let me start with you, president obama has yet to weigh in on what the federal government will do. Is going to do in terms of enforcing federal drug laws. What risks does the president face on this issue . The country is kind of divided, youre seeing where legalization is happening. Its happening out west. More kind of progressive states. The country nationally still divided. The risk, where there is risk. Is talking about an issue that really isnt a top issue for the American People right now. Youve got the fiscal cliff. You have immigration, health care. The economy, jobs, getting in the midst of an issue that is still fairly contentious for a significant number of americans, i think poses some political risk. My guess is where this ends up going is, the administration probably doesnt talk about it and probably doesnt go out of its way to enforce it. And i guess well wait and see what we actually do. Young voters, joe watkins, young voters, no surprise here. According to the new republic, a polling that shows quote an impressive 65 to 70 of voters under the age of 30 supporting Marijuana Legalization. Nationwide, this wasnt a study that was conducted in one state or a particular region. Joe, does this issue now present the Republican Party, with a huge opportunity to gain the support of Younger Voters . I would hope, craig, that we would challenge Younger Voters to look to their better agnels. Obviously the Recreational Use of marijuana is not the central issue that the Republican Party or any party would want to use to attract new voters. It doesnt have to be the central issue, joe. But it could be a platform plank. Theres so many other things, i think Chris Kofinis said it well. At a time when people are concerned about whats happening with our country, from a fiscal standpoint and young people are who are worried whether or not theyll be able to pay back their college loans. I think our best shot is to talk about the Job Opportunities that young people might have and the Educational Opportunities that they so much deserve. Beginning in elementary school. More so than talking about whether or not they should have the right to smoke marijuana. Lets switch gears. I know how you two feel about pot. Lets turn to another key battle brewing in washington. Comprehensive Immigration Reform. The l. A. Times reporting that president obama will begin an allout drive for Immigration Reform shortly after the inaugurati inauguration. According to the article, it could include a path to citizenship for 11 Million People living illegally in this country. Chris, is the best approach for the white house here to go all in and create a comprehensive bill . Or is it to do it like senator marco rubio has suggested, one piece at a time . I would say you go all in. I think you have to be sensitive to some of the politics of it. But in reality given what the republicans faced in the election and the total rebuke amongst hispanic voters. The dynamics and the forces are there for Immigration Reform. More so now and that ever before. Will it be difficult . Yes, will it be complicated . Of course. I think people have come to terms with the fact that youre not going to deport 12 million plus people. Thats never going to happen. So lets find a way to do this in a decent, humane way. I think if we do it the country wins, its not about a republican or democrat victory. Joe, how would the gop react to a proposal for a path to citizenship. For the 12 million Illegal Immigrants who are living here. Theres a shot to get this done. Chris has spoken right. We have to consider whats best for the United States of america. And the best way for the United States to move forward is to listen to those, those voices of reason, senator john mccain some years ago along with the late senator ted kennedy had an immigration package that provided people with path to citizenship. This has to become an option. Certainly if republicans have from a party standpoint want to look to including more people and growing the base of the party and doing bet anywhere the future with hispanic voters, weve got to embrace an immigration policy thats fair and reasonable an provides a path to citizenship. Democratic congressman Luis Gutierrez campaigned for the president. Now he is taking the president to task for not taking a more active role in these preliminary immigration talks. This is Luis Gutierrez telling the hill whos missing from hess conversations . Is the president of the United States. Chris, those are some pretty strong words from strong obama ally. Should the president be more involved in these talks . Youre talking about an election that just ended. Youre talking about a lame duck session and a new congress being sworn in its the new congress thats going to deal with this and theres going to be significant changes. I think the president sitting back. Letting the certain players and Congress Kind of figure out the main details. I have no doubt to come back after the president is sworn in again, hes going to put a major push in. I have no doubt about that. In fact its smart politics, its smart policy. I think youve seen republicans and democrats coming to terms with that, this is something thats going to get done. My guess is its probably going to get done in the first year of the new presidency. Joe after Immigration Reform, most folks suspect that Immigration Reform is going to get done in some way, shape or, form or fashion. After that, joe, whats, what do you think is going to be the focus of this president . I think this president has a numb of challenges. I think his biggest challenge of course right now is trying to bring republicans and democrats together on the matter of the fiscal cliff. Because as we all know if we go over the fiscal cliff. That means higher taxes for everybody. It means a hit of 3. 9 to the gp it means unemployment will probably go over 9 , maybe as high as 10 . Think those are all the kinds of things that the president would want to avoid. We dont want that to be the discussion beginning 2013. I think the president wants to make sure first we get past the fiscal challenge and bring both parties together and sign an agreement that works for us so we avoid the fiscal cliff and then look for other ways to bring the country together and maybe make a difference legislatively. Chris as promised really quickly here. Your former cross, senator joe mansion, west virginia, absolutely despises the mtv show, buck wild and has taken to talking about it. A lot, whats your take on all of this . Whats happening here . Well, you know, listen, theres nobody who loves his state more, i think than joe mansion. He loves west virginia. Its a state with great people. Ive met a lot of them while i worked for him and you see this show, i went and saw the trailer for it yesterday. And its, you know its the caricature of certain people, and its the way i think it kind of presents the state in the worst light. It doesnt need to be this way. Its a state of great people who work really hard. Its a show on mtv. Its a reality show on mtv. Its mindless, senseless entertainment. But you know what, it is, and it isnt. And the reality is these shows actually do have a cultural impact. These shows do affect you know how people perceive each other and unfortunately, you know, mtv, i get theyre in the business of making money. But i just once, just once i would like them to maybe put forward a show that doesnt make young people look like fools. I dont think anybody should be stereotyped. This is just not, this is just not the best use i think of mtv resources. But then again im not sure what really is. I could point you to a few other shows on tv we could have a long discussion about that. On that note, gentlemen, democratic strategist, Chris Kofinis and republican strategist, joe watkins, thanks to both of you. The latest on will, kate and the investigation into the nurse who took the crank call. Coming up. 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Postal service. Because its nice to have an extra pair of hands around for the holidays. But when i was in an accident. Because its nice to have an extra pair of hands around i was worried the Health Care System spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. So i never missed a beat. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. So we just got this in from nbcs Mike Viquiera at the white house this afternoon. The president and Speaker Boehner met at the white house to talk about efforts to resolve the fiscal cliff. The white house spokesperson saying basically, were not going to tell you what they talked about. But they are talking, the lines of communication remain open. So some developing news on the sunday afternoon. The president , the House Speaker, still talking. More than two weeks after being admitted to a houston hospital, former president george h. W. Bush remains in stable condition. Being treated for a bronchitisrelated cough. Doctors say the 88yearold bush continues to improve but they are being cautious with his care. And it was back in 1992 when then president george h. W. Bush lost the white house to bill clinton. The same year, yugoslavia started breaking apart, South Africans voted to end apartheid and the prince and principles is of wales, better known as charles and diana officially separated. Todays flashback comes from nbc nightly news, december 9th, 1992. Began as a royal romance but quickly faded. Britains Prince Charles and lady diana. In the latter years, a troubled marriage and mostly separate lives, she reportedly described it as a loveless misalliance. Well, today official word the union is over. Nbcs rick davis has more tonight from london. Rick . Katie, the last time a Prime Minister spoke publicly of the troubled lives of the royal family was in 1936. Stanley baldwin announced the abdication of edward the viii, today it was about the end of a love affair. It was the stuff of fairy tales. The engagement of a shy young woman to a prince and future king. It was the wedding the world watched. Princess was hailed as the jewel in the crown. But, there were rumors of trouble even as they posed as the happy family. And this year, many published reports that both had other close relationships. So todays words in parliament were not a surprise. It is announced from Buckingham Palace that with regret, the prince and princess of wales have decided to separate. Their royal highnesss have no plans to divorce and their constitutional positions are unaffected. Dianas oldest son, william, has been in the headlines a lot recently since getting married now as an expectant father. Prince william attended a gala fundraiser last night without his wife, kate, who is still at home resting. He canceled an event for tonight to stay home with the duchess of cambridge whose acute morning sickness put her in the hospital last week. This week we are expecting a complete medical explanation of the nurse who died after being the victim of a hoax by two radio deejays. The deejays called the hospital pretending to be the queen and Prince Charles, they are off the air until further notice while counselors are giving the two whats described as intense therapy. Theyre described as being extremely fragile right now. As washington gears up for the president s second naur ratio inauguration . What can we expect for the second term . Can i still ship a gift in time for christmas . Yeah, sure you can. Great. Wheres your gift . Uh. Whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Ship Fedex Express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. Congratulations, mr. President. [ cheers and applause ] best wishes. The historic day almost four years ago now as preparations continue for the president s second inauguration on january 21st. At that first inauguration, president obama refused all corporate donations and capped all individual contributions at 50,000, but with many of his top donors still hurting a little following the most Expensive Campaign in history this time, the president will accept unlimited corporate donations to help finance those festivities. To talk about that and what we might expect to see in a second obama term, joined now by a. B. Stoddard. New york times reporting these changes, noting that while, quote, financing arrangements like these are typical for president ial inaugurals, mr. Obamas decision has drawn criticism from goodgovernment. Is that a fair criticism . Absolutely. He didnt take Public Financing in the 08 campaign. He didnt do it again in the 2012 campaign. Now hes going to take corporate donations. Part of the reason, yes, his democratic donors have been tapped out. The other reason is frankly i dont think the president ial inaugural committee wants to spend time in the next month trying to raise money for multiple people. If they can get one or two big donations, it helps cover it and they can focus on a more modest affair compared to four years ago. Whether its money, transparency, freedom of information, this president vowed to do a lot of those things four years ago. Just about none of them have happened. None of them . Well, there have been minimal progress. You talk to Good Government groups, they say, you know, things may have improved a little bit, but he didnt necessarily bring that big change we were all hoping for. A. B. , theyre accepting more money, but its going to be a lot less opulent this time around. Only three inaugural balls instead of ten last time around. Why is it going to be so much more scaled back this time, you think . Well, were in a crisis, first of all. This is unlike most secondterm inaugurals. Were in a real were in the fiscal cliff. As i said earlier in the hour, if we get through that, were in another cliff of looking at how to raise the debt ceiling. A big fight that Global Markets are worried about. So i think that that is really the most important thing. I actually think the president should have done something really revolutionary. Im going to be writing that in my column this week. I think he should have skipped. I dont the we need another one. I think it would have been the right thing to do to save the money. Just have a nice scaleddown thing just a swearing in and a speech . Just sworn in like the last time. I think that would have been nine. If Everyone Wants to party and spend money and donate the contributions to pay for it, i think that he is of the attitude that his last election is behind him and lets party. So i dont think they so much care what the Good Government groups are thinking as they want to please the people who have supported them through thick and thin. Ed, lets look at legislative priorities here over the next four years. All indications at this point are basically saying that, you know, immigration, right after inauguration, last time either health care or Climate Change, the president chose health care. Is there going to be any juice left after immigration for the president to do Something Big on Climate Change . Thats the smart question to ask, craig. Probably not, admittedly, because not only will he try to start Immigration Reform, and republicans are eager to address that because they understand in order to win back hispanics, they have to be seen as doing something on that issue. But you have several fiscal things that will linger into 2013. The entire house is running for reelection. A third of the senate is running. At the that point, the president kind of has to, you know, step back and not expect much to happen. If anything, hell focus on trying possibly to get democrats to gain on what they won just this year. So, yeah, youre right. Just about this year and thats it pretty much when it comes to domestic policy. When you make that gamble, it will likely be Immigration Reform with maybe some modest attempt at Climate Change so at least he can say i tried. All right. Ed, a. B. , thanks to both of you. Appreciate your time. Coming up, egypts new president walking back his power grab, sort of. Well get the latest in a live report from cairo. Then later, the candidates spent 2 billion on the election. What else could you do with all that cash . We have some ideas in a few minutes as well. Youre watching msnbc on this sundays afternoon. The place for politics. [ male announcer ] this is bob, a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. The usual, bob . Not today. 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And a good sunday afternoon to you. Im craig melvin. Youre watching msnbc, the place for politics. Coming up, we will go inside syria as concern goes up over whether the assad regime will use its kchemical weapons stash on its own people. And a Tea Party Republican bough out. What that will mean. Were going to talk to the head of the Tea Party Express. Later, as the Supreme Court gears up to take on samesex marriage, well look at how far the fight for equality has come with someone who has been key in changing the image of being gay in america. Well get to all those things in a moment. First, some new developments in egypt today as the opposition rejects president morsis planned december 15th vote on a new constitution. Morsi offered to drop a controversial plan to expand his powers but let the constitution issue stand. Cairo, meanwhile, quiet today. Over the past several days, that has not been the case. Thousands of pro and antimorsi demonstrators have taken to the streets of cairo and other major cities there as well. For more on this and all things egypt, id like to bring in our man on the ground there. Of course, the opposition rejecting the december 15th constitution vote. What does that mean, and what happens next . Reporter well, i just got off the phone, actually, with a spokesperson for the National Salvation front, which is the opposition block. Theyre being very careful with the wording theyre using. Theyre not calling this a boycott of the referendum. Theyre saying they dont want the referendum to happen. I asked them, how do they plan on making that happen . Well, its exactly like youve been seeing. Street protests. They say theyre calling on the supporters of the National Salvation front, those that are opposing the constitution. They say it doesnt represent all egyptians. Theyre calling on them to go to the streets to remain outside the president ial palace and to force president Mohamed Morsi to delay the vote on the referendum until the constitution is rewritten. Theyre adamant this constitutional vote goes forward on december 15th. They say its the only chance to get the countrys institutions up and running and to have a democratic process. Clearly, this country is as polarized as its ever been as a result of this referendum. All right. Thank you, good sir. I want to bring in a journali i filming maker, and msnbc contributor, born and raised in that region. Good sunday to you. How empowering is it to the egyptian people that president morsi was forced to back off . It doesnt matter. The truth, its not even a political point. The real point is this constitution that doesnt guarantee rights for women, minorities and threaten even freedom of expression. He wants to make president Mohamed Morsi is trying to work as a president only for the muslim brotherhood. Hes the man that tries, you know, to show us that hes he can broker a deal here. Hes not capable of including the voices of the secular opposition, of women in this constitution, and not even of minoriti minorities. The Coptic Church walked away from the constitutional assembly. Hes showing a face with these decrees he established for himself. Whats the likelihood that this vote is going to happen on december 15th . Its a done deal, unfortunately. It is going to happen . Its a done deal. But it will not be legitimate . It will be legitimate because he has the backing of the people on the ground, especially in the suburbs. Outside alexandria in egypt, theres 85 million egyptians. The majority of them are living in the suburbs. The suburbs are people that benefitted from the brotherhood in the course of history. The brotherhood caught two deals in the history. One with mubarak where mubarak told them, you take care of the social issues, i take care of the army and financial institutions. Now theyre in power. They cut a deal with the military. The military, they didnt intervene in any any phase of this protest simply because they had their rights, especially their economic power, protected with this constitution. The only pressure that can be put on morsi is not from the inside, unfortunately, but from the outside. They are expecting this loan from the imf, 4 billion. The loan was supposed to kick in, and the agreement was supposed to happen the 17th of december. This is a very important appointment. The 15th is the referendum. The 17th is the approval. If the country will go on being unstable, theyll not have that loan. This is the only issue that will change the game. Hang on for a moment. I want to bring in aaron david miller, Vice President for new initiatives at the Woodrow Wilson center in d. C. Served as adviser in the middle east to democratic and republican secretaries of state. Honor to have you. Pleasure. The u. S. Relationship with president morsi under a microscope, has been for some time. In the Washington Post say, the Obama Administration has been morsis main enabler. What with role should this country play in egypt . Look, i think were going to have to walk a very fine line. On one hand, we could cut aid and condition assistance on democratic behavior, but then again, were going lose whatever influence we have. I mean, i would argue the following. Number one, our assistance to the Egyptian Military needs to continue, otherwise you might just as well hang a closed for the season sign on american influence in the country. At the same time, i do believe we should begin to start conditioning American Economic systems on morsis democratic behavior and performance. Number three, we really ought to start speaking out and up much more loudly than we have in the past. Morsi was due to come here this month. Hes not coming. Its just as well. If, in fact, he comes in january, im not even persuaded that visit shouldnt be held or conditioned on the reality of trends within Egyptian Society on morsis part that are much more democratic. You have an exclusivist, authoritarian, Islamist Party essentially hijacking what was left of Egyptian Military. The military, on the other hand, its no way to build a democratic policy. Im afraid this is, in fact, the wave of the future. How is the islamist government in egypt, how is this government different from the islamist government in, say, turkey . Totally different. The turkish model is a model that was built actually in 1920 as a secular model. They resented the islamists. They forbid them from wearing veils on National Television or institutions. They forbade them that. It represented a model where islam can be a political islam. You can be in the government, but he advised morsi, actually, and his brotherhood. He told them, when you are on television, shave your beards and wear a suit. Listen to your opponents. Listen to the seculars. Listen to the women. Listen, especially, to the chris man minorities. This is the only way you can be included as partners and leaders that are credible on an international platform. Sit tight here. Stay with us. Id like to turn our attention for just a moment to syria. Nbc news chief correspondent Richard Engel was able to travel inside. A rare report. Reporter in parts of syria that are controlled by the rebels, theres no talk of the diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution. The trips and meetings of Hillary Clinton with the u. N. And her russian counterpart, theres no hope here for a diplomatic solution. Instead, what people talk about is the suffering of the people. The people are showing tremendous resilience. This house was bombed by mistake. The people who lived here lived next to a rebel commander. Now theyre homeless. There is also tremendous economic difficulties here. The syrian currency is worth about half of what it was worth when the war began. A loaf of bread costs 20 time what is it did just a few months ago. Despite all of this, the rebels are making advances. They say they will they hope to soon control the city of aleppo, the countrys commercial capital. After that, damascus. Richard engel, on the outskirts of aleppo. You both just saw richards report. Aaron, let me start with you. How real, at this point, is the fear that Bashar Al Assads regime could use those chemical weapons against the rebels . I think the fear is real. The question is, whats the point . Desperate men trapped in difficult circumstances might actually deploy these things. Toward what ends is almost impossible to define. If theyre used too close to syrian forces, to the jordanian borders, given the prevails winds, you could affect thousands of people. The options for blocking this are frankly pretty bad. If the United States, through use of air strikes, tries to take these out, assuming we know where they are, you have a dispersal problem. If you wait until theyre used, were talking about probably the insertion of Ground Forces in an effort to secure them. This situation in syria, though, with or without chemical weapons, is going to get a lot worse before it gets worse. Worse in what way . Well, what youre seeing even if assad is overturned tomorrow, what youre seeing is a country that ultimately may well fragment or fracture. Youre talking about a set of opposition forces, many of the most valiant and effective elements are jihadis. You have the iraqis, the saudis using these proxies to support their respective interests. The notion that somehow the struggle for syria will be over when the assads and family and Security Services are somehow either overthrown or killed, is an illusion. Were just at the beginning of a very long struggle for syria. What are our options in syria . Aaron is actually right. I was in lebanon in beirut. I went to the south and inside syria for three days in july. Its true. The civil war will outlive bah sha bashar al assad. All the minorities are fearing today. Theyre, of course, proassad, simply because they fear the hard core islamist element within the Free Syrian Army is whats blocking them from major defection. They feel their interests will be actually threatened in the future. They will not they are not willing to join them for a reason. They know there will be retaliation against them. Not for what they did with assad, for who they are. The army today and their leader need to come out publicly and say that there will be a formula of power sharing for the future of syria for a postassad era that include them and not exclude them. They need to understand that they will be safe and be protected. So enjoyed this insightful conversation. Thanks to both of you. Coming up, a major tea party player stepping aside. What will the lack of it mean for the army of conservative followers . Well talk about that and what jim demints departure will mean as well. Plus, how many Justin Biebers can you buy for the amount of money we spent on the 2012 election . Its an odd question, but were going to answer it straight ahead. This is msnbc, the place for politics. Wasnt my daughters black bean soup spectacular . [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. Those antacids arent working. Oh no, not that, not here [ male announcer ] antacids dont relieve gas. Gasx is designed to relieve gas. Gasx. The gas xperts. Gasx is designed to relieve gas. Try running four. Ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately weve got ink. It gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at Office Supply stores. Rewards we put right back into our business. This is the only thing weve ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. Make your mark with ink from chase. Its healthier, and the only one clinically proven. With aloe, vitamins, and no ammonia. My hair looks healthier than before i colored. I switched. You can too, to natural instincts. Bp has paid overthe people of bp twentythreeitment to the gulf. Billion dollars to natural instincts. To help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. Today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. And bps also committed to america. We support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. Were working to fuel america for generations to come. Our commitment has never been stronger. Tea party backing was not enough to help their candidate win in last nights louisiana gop runoff. Congressman jeff landry, a tea party favorite, lost to fellow republican congressman who is aligned with House Speaker john boehner. He captured 61 of the vote last night. Could this loss and some other recent departures signal a shift in the tea partys power . Joining me now from atlanta to talk about that and more, amy cramer, chair of the Tea Party Express. Hey, amy. Hey, craig. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for coming. With landrys loss, senator jim demint retiring, dick armey leafing freedom works, is it time for the tea party to hit the reset button . Well, you know, i dont know that its hit the reset button. Were going to keep working, and were not giving up. You know, i am happy that senator demint is going to the heritage foundation. I think hes going to have a great impact. We certainly have not seen the last of him. The great thing about this movement is we have no. Leaders. Its every day average americans that are concerned about thats not true. You have leaders. You have spokespeople. You have people who are at the forefront of the movement. You would concede that, no . Well, i mean, there are those of us that go out there and, you know, we do speak, you know, about the movement and we do that sort of thing. At the end of the day, the people are concerned about issues. I mean, they dont have a leader that they follow. Theyre not, you know, attached to any one organization. So its all about the issues. Thats why we all have worked so well together. Your colleague Tea Party Express cofounder had this to say about the tea partys ability and need to compromise. Take a listen. Were not adverse to compromise and, you know, you got to have the votes. Lets face it, conservatives dont have the votes in the senate. We dont have the vote in the white house. We cant win everything. What we can do is lose everything. Amy, that sounds like a far cry from the rhetoric of the Tea Party Movement just a couple of years ago. Has there been a paradigm shift inside your organization . Look, no, you know, absolutely not. I mean, we want washington to get their act together and come together and stop us from going over this financial cliff. I mean, we want washington to reign in that spending. Were not going to compromise on our principles. You can ask any of these leaders and activists across the country, and im sure they would tell you the same. Is that 35 tax rate a principal . This is the thing. Im no expert on the economy. You know, im no accountant or anything. We have a spending problem. We dont have a revenue problem. Thats whats disappointing right now. All across the board, i dont care what channel you turn on the news, all anybody is talking about is generating revenue. Well, at the end of the day, you can generate all the revenue you want, but its not going to stop this out of control spending. We have to stop this spending. Thats where we need to be focused right now. Is there the political appetite and for the record, i think there are a number of folks that have been talking about entitlement reform. Most people following this thing closely acknowledge that entitlement reform is going to have to be part of a larger fiscal cliff deal. But is there the appetite right now, do you think, for some sort of drastic, dramatic cut to government . I think that, you know, the Tea Party Movement has been successful because how do you quanti you quanti . Were still here. Im on your news show. Obviously, everybody is paying attention. If not, i wouldnt be here. At the end of the day, we had huge wins in 2010 because our message resonated about smaller, less government, reigning in the spending and making washington live within their means. That was two years ago. Theres a difference between being relevant and being effective. How do you quantify effectiveness . We are still effective. I mean, look at the victories that we just had in wisconsin. We defeated the recall with governor walker. Look at the huge victory we had in texas with ted cruise defeating the Lieutenant Governor for the United States senate seat there. Weve had ted yoho in florida who beat, i believe, a 13term incumbent. There have been huge victories across the board. All anybody wants to focus on is our losses. We cant deny that 2012 was not a good year for us. You cant blame it on the Tea Party Movement either. Moderates lost too. So i think that people need to go back, look at message in 2010 when the Tea Party Movement drove the message, we won huge victories. In 2012 when the republicans were driving the message, we didnt have to many victories. It sounds like what im hearing is one of the reasons you guys suffered this past election cycle is because the party wasnt conservative enough. Well, no. I wouldnt say conservative enough. I mean, you know, when you say conservative enough, are you talking about social issues or fiscal issues . Im talking about fiscal conservatives right now. A lot of people think that the Tea Party Movement, you know, were bunch of rightwing, you know, fanaticals and this and that. All we are is we want washington to live within their means. We want washington to stay focused on the fiscal issues of reigning in this out of control government. We dont care about social issues. We dont go there. Youre not going to get everybody in the same party to agree on social issues let alone across party lines. Thats why we focus on the fiscal issues. Thats why were still here. Americans want washington to work for them again, and they want Big Government washington out of their lives. They want the power put back in the hands of the people in the states where it belongs. Tea Party Express chair amy cramer. Always a pleasure. Always good to have you. Thanks, craig. Thanks for having me on. Have a great sunday. You as well. Coming up, what words come to mind to describe american politics. The top five straight ahead. Plus, no cause for concern. Thats what were hearing from Nelson Mandelas family on this sunday afternoon after he was admitted to a South African hospital. Well give you the latest on his condition straight ahead. 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With flexpen®. Say good night to vial and syringe. Ask your doctor about levemir® flexpen. Covered by 90 of insurance plans, including medicare. Find your copay at myflexpen. Com. Atmix of energies. Ve the world needs a broader thats why were supplying natural gas to generate cleaner electricity. That has around 50 fewer co2 emissions than coal. And its also why, with our partner in brazil, shell is producing ethanol a biofuel made from renewable sugarcane. A minute, mom lets broaden the Worlds Energy mix. Lets go. Some aerosols may just mix with them. Can febreze really remove them . We asked real people what they thought. Take a deep breath for me. Describe the smell. Its very pleasant. Fresh. Some kind of flower maybe . Remove the blindfold. Awww, oh yuck i didnt smell any of that febreze air effects doesnt mix, it actually removes odors. [ laughs ] wow, thats incredible. Just another way febreze helps you breathe happy. What could you do with 2 billion . According to the federal election commission, thats what president obama and mitt romney spent on their campaign trail over this past year. No drop in the bucket, but heres a few other things that you could afford to buy if you had about 2 billion. Bonus here if youre a football fan, too. The Dallas Cowboys that just managed to eke out a win. Theyre the most valuable team in the world at 1. 2 billion. You could buy the boys. Or you could buy the redskins. You could also buy 17 copies of the famous 1895 the scream. You could buy some of those. Those sold at auction one of them 119 million. You could also buy 4. 3 million ipads if you were so inclined. You would probably want to wait for the latest version. You could also buy 6 Million School lunches for one whole school year. If you really wanted to make some kids happy in terms of annual salary, you could afford 39 Justin Biebers if you were so incli inclined. Speaking of kid stuff, lets go to the political playground. Our first topic, senator joe mansion called on mtv to cancel its new reality show already being touted as the, quote, jersey shore of appalachia. Its called buckwild. It follows nine 20something residents of west virginia. Mansion called the show a, quote, travesty, that place to ugly and inaccurate stereotypes about his state. He writes, as a u. S. Senator, i am repulsed at this business venture. Instead of showcasing the beauty of our people and our state, you preyed on young people, coaxed them into displaying shameful behavior, and now you are profiting from it. That is just wrong. Clearly the senator hadnt seen mtv before this show. So far, no plans to pull the plug, were told. That show is set to air on january 3rd. Meanwhile, Vladimir Putins rep may be wearing thin. Hes considering a variety of options to make him more appealing. Including a makeover. Putins spokesman calls the suggestion ridiculous. Finally, are you someone whos being on dog whistle politics . Those are just a couple terms to make the top ten list of most popular political words of 2012. Well rounds out the top five for you. Permanent campaign at number five. Number four, politics aint banebag. Number three, casework. Sounds very legal. Number two, franking privileges. Not really sure exactly what that means. And at number one, honest graft. If that isnt an oxymoron, i dont know what is. Up next, a weather alert for much of the midwest. A huge blizzard cancelling flights, causing hundreds of car accidents. Well take you there. Plus, as the Supreme Court gets ready to take up the issue of samesex marriage, well look how far the fight for equality has come in the last 20 years. And whats still to be done. Youre watching msnbc, the place for politics. P ground for less than the ups store. Thats right. Ive learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. You know weve been open all night. Is this a trick to get my spot . [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. Save on ground shipping at fedex office. Hi, im ensure clear. Clear, huh . Im not juice or fancy water. Ive got nine grams of protein. Thats three times more than me [ female announcer ] ensure clear. Nine grams protein. Zero fat. In blueberry pomegranate and peach. Yofor giving the perfect gift . Le just have a knack they put real thought into it. And find just. The right. Thing. How do they do that . More saving. More doing. Thats the power of the home depot. Pick up a Ridgid Jobmax multitool starter kit and get a free head attachment. A major winter storm is bringing heavy snow and strong winds to the northern plains, upper midwest and rockies today. Kn snow and ice have already hit the minneapolis airport where delta has a hub. Theyve canceled about 90 flights so far. The Minnesota State Police Report there have been more than 300 car crashes since 9 30 last night. 32 of them involving injuries. So far, no fatalities. Good sunday afternoon to you. Im craig melvin. Heres a look at the other top stories. Pakistani intelligence Officials Say a u. S. Drone strike this week killed a senior al qaeda leader in pakistans tribal region. Intelligence Officials Say he became second in command of the Terror Network earlier this year after the previous number two was killed in another u. S. Drone strike. Sources close to Nelson Mandelas family tell nbc news theres no sense of panic despite the South African leader checking into the hospital yesterday. Hes still there this afternoon, were told, but south africas president visited mandela and said he, quote, found him comfortable. Mandela not expected to be out of the hospital until at least tuesday. And texas a m Quarterback Johnny Manziel the first freshman ever to win the heisman trophy. He took college trophys top individual honor saturday night after a recordbreaking debut, including an upset victory against number one alabama. How about that . Congrats to him. In Washington State today, same sex couples are walking down the aisle. They are saying i do. Its the first date since the state legalized same ssex marriage that couples have the opportunity to wed. Also this week, the Supreme Court announced its decision to take up two challenges to Marriage Equality. One involving the federal defense of marriage act. The other questioning californias ban o of samesex marriages, proposition 8. Joining me now, the former producer, host of the pioneering pbs serious in the life, which brought a real unique, authentic voice to real life lgbt stories. Did it for about 20 years. Good to have you. Thank you. First of all, i want to get your reaction to the Supreme Court decision on friday to take up the two cases. I think my reaction like so many in the community is its about time. Its about time its heard. You know, this can not go on, the level of discrimination. I think the majority of americans now support gay meraj. To deny people over rights and responsibilities that are granted by the federal government is absurd. I think its fantastic that its finally being heard. The series you worked on in the life, its going to air its final episode after 20 years of programming, which really helped bring gay and lesbian voices to the national stage. Lets take a quick look at some of the work. Take a look, for folks who havent seen the show. What things do you think you pay the cost for . Very little. I think its even helped politically. I honestly believe, both in the general electorate and among my colleagues, admire honesty. A woman had never been elected. A lesbian had never been elected. Theres always reasons not to do it. Sure, there were days i didnt know whether this could happen. But i always had faith. You must represent yourselves, and you must speak directly to the public. In the two decades in the life has been on the air, so much has changed in the court of Public Opinion. We just talked about the Supreme Courts decision to take up those cases. The repeal of dont ask, dont tell. The president of the United States last summer finally coming out in support of samesex marriage. How far do you think weve come in this country, and how far do we still have to go . Look, since i started hosting in the life in 1993, there was, you know, nothing on television, very little on television. We were coming out of a dark period of a. I. D. S. And invisibility in terms of the media. I think that has played such a tremendous role, Popular Culture and advancing peoples understanding of who we are. Thats why it was such an honor to do that show for so long. You know, in terms of political rights, those battles started so much earlier. To see them coming to fruition and the court of Public Opinion change the way it has is remarkable. Catherine, former host of in the life, good to have you. Good to be on. Thank you so much for stopping by. Congratulations on a fantastic run. 20 years in television. Might as well be a century. So what are the possible outcomes of the Supreme Court ruling on this issue . Its a hot topic going into this news week. I want to start with the brain trust here. This is going to be our starting topic. From d. C. , Congressional Black Caucus director, angela rye. We decided to have her back. Also, msnbc contributor, dave weigel. Here in the studio, reason Magazine Editor in chief matt welch. Great to have you all with us. Lets start there where i just left off with catherine. Samesex marriage activists are called this the civil rights issue of our time, but many also express uncertainty that the high court isnt evolved enough to rule on. Whats your take . Well, i think that we certainly have seen a change in the tide from the president saying that his position has evolved on this to certainly the polls. The polls have indicated clearly that the American People have changed greatly in their posturing towards not just civil unions but the right to marry. So Marriage Equality is front and center. Not only for millennials, but people of all age groups and all walks of life. You have democrats and republicans even agreeing on this issue. At this point, people are finding a common thread. Thats the right for human beings, American People that look like you and i and eothers. Matt, there are a variety of possible outcomes. Lets start with doma. If that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives attempts of outlawing gay marriage . It is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. It will be over it its overturned. If social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. You cant do this anywhere in any state. Were going to preempt you before you try. I think social cons are in a much better position when they say, look, lets make it so the government cant compel us to do things privately we dont want to do. I think youll see much more emphasis placed on that. The question will be more than what will the Supreme Court try to do because they dont want to be out in front of Public Opinion too much. Its going to be fascinating. And theyve rarely been accused of doing that either. David, lets move on to prop 8 in california. If thats struck down, does that mean samesex marriage is for all intensive purposes legal . There are ways to strike it down in a very narrowly tailored way. You saw that with the way john roberts wrote the opinion on health care. He wrote it in a way that preserved the mandate while opening a lot of avenues to republican governors for people years from now to chip away parts of the bill they dont like. You can see the same thing here. A limited win for liberals on gay marriage. Its hard to predict. We were all kind of watching how Anthony Kennedy and john roberts can get away with their version of those in the most narrow way possible that doesnt, i think, dramatically expand rights with just their decision. All right. Sit tight. When we come back, i want to get your reaction from news from the white house. Sundays meeting between president obama and john boehner. Is there hope in the fiscal cliff negotiations . This is msnbc, the police for a politics. People love our potpourri parties. Its a smell of a good time. This is the juniper oh that is magical. [ male announcer ] when you combine creamy velveeta with zesty Rotel Tomatoes and green chiles, youll get a bowl of queso that makes even this gettogether better. Its so great to see you. You, too oh, cloudy glasses. You didnt have to come over actually, honey, i think i did. Oh . You did . Whoa, ladies, easy. Hi. Cascade kitchen counselor. We can help avoid this with cascade complete pacs. See, over time, cascade complete pacs fight film buildup two times better than finish quantum. To help leave glasses sparkling shiny too bad it doesnt work on windows. Okay, im outta here. Cascade. The clear choice. [ man thinking ] oh, this gas. Those antacids arent working. Oh no, not that, not here [ male announcer ] antacids dont relieve gas. Gasx is designed to relieve gas. Gasx. The gas xperts. I was willing to hold fast, but that all changed on thursday. Because on thursday this man, this grown man, was pushed into the congressional ladies washroom, naked from the waist down. They held me down and took my pants. They held him down and took his pants. I love him. The crew of snl giving their take on the political headbutting. I little hopeful news a short time ago. The president and speaker of the house john boehner meeting at the white house this afternoon to talk about averting the fiscal cliff. I want to get some reaction from the brain trust. Tax rates and where they stand are at the center of this debate. This is a quote from the New York Times. It really got my attention. Even if republicans were to agree to mr. Obamas core demand, that the top marginal income rates return to the clinton era levels of 35 , 39. 6 , after december 21st, it goes on to say the additional revenue would be about a quarter of the revenue he wants to collect. Why should republicans agree to that if its not going to generate tough revenue . Because theyre not coming up with much of anything on their side, right, to cut government commensurate with the size of closing that deficit. The big unspoken thing or not very oftenly spoken thing here is were talking about the clinton era tax rates. What about the clinton era spending rates . If we kept federal spending at that same rate of growth of population and inflation since 2000, the federal budget would be around 2. 8 trillion, not 3. 8 trillion. Theres really been a huge spending boom over the last 10, 12 years. Republicans arent really talking about cutting it to any significance. So, yeah, the republicans are going to come up with some to those who would point to the Prescription Drug program, for instance, the two wars we used credit cards for, and the fact we were in the midst of an economic crisis to the likes we havent seen since the great depression, to those who would say over the past ten years, weve had some events that have necessitated a lot of spending. Your response would be what . What event necessitated a 70 increase in nondefense Discretionary Spending during george w. Bushs presidency . There is no answer to that question. What crisis requires us to have 100,000 employees in the department of agriculture . I dont know. We just accept without questioning these hysterical levels of Government Spending and use that as the baseline. Heres something. How about we pay for all of that in taxes right now. Lets see what the true cost of government is. The fact is, i think, the true cost of government as we have it right now is recession. Angela, as we heard earlier, the president while taking a firm stance, also being criticized by the gop for taking a campaign approach to using photo ops with the middle class families to hammer home his point about who stands to be hurt most. Is he wrong . Is his approach wrong this time around . No, i dont think his approach is wrong at all. What youre seeing the president do is not a Campaign Style approach. Its actually a human style approach. Hes reaching out to the American People by finding American Families who will be hit if we allow the bush tax cuts to expire for all americans. The point the president is trying to raise, and i think hes making it very clear, is that 2 of americans we can allow their tax cuts to expire, and we will be one step closer to averting this fiscal cliff crisis than we would have been if we didnt allow their tax cuts to expire. The American People spoke very loud and clear during the election. I think its time for us to respond. Both sides will definitely have to compromise, but i definitely think president obama is headed in the right direction. Dave, earlier on the morning show, republican senator bob corker indicated he would be okay with raising tax rates. Take a listen. Theres a growing group of folks that are looking at this and realizing that we dont have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue before year end. We have one house. Thats it. A lot of people are putting forth a theory. I actually think it has merit, when you give the president the 2 increase that hes talking about, the rate increase on the top 2 . All of the sudden, the shift goes back to entitlements. Is that what happens, dave . Youve heard that described in some quarters as a doomsday strategy, although its quite good for republicans. They would basically punt, like he described it, on tax rates and say that in january, now that weve given you what you campaigned nont eed on in two e. They think they have a better argument now. Republican pollsters will point out that the Senior Citizens who are told by many a campaign ad that paul ryan and mitt romney would kill medicare voted for the romney ryan ticket. Generally people are saying gallup is a good measure of this. They want government to intervene less in the tfts it currently intervenes in. They think they can win this if it gets away from the tax issues. Thats why you see this truly agonizing pull away from the red lines theyve drawn on taxes. Theyve all pledged not to raise them so theyre kind of meandering around the talk of revenue. Corker is saying this is pretty significant. If they all give up, they have a better argument if people are in the mood for this kind of austerity. Sit tight. Quick break. Back with the brain trust in a moment. Were going to talk about whats next for, you guessed it, Hillary Clinton. Well do some more speculating right after this. [ male announcer ] campbells green bean casserole. Its amazing what soup can do [ male announcer ] campbells green bean casserole. Is bigger than we think. Sometimelike the flu. Fer from with aches, fever and chills the flus a really big deal. So why treat it like its a little cold . Theres something that works differently than overthecounter remedies. Prescription tamiflu attacks the flu virus at its source. So dont wait. Call your doctor right away. Tamiflu is prescription medicine for treating the flu in adults and children one year and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. Before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if youre pregnant, nursing. Have Serious Health conditions, or take other medicines. If you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior, stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. Children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion or abnormal behavior. The most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. The flu comes on fast, so ask your doctor about tamiflu. Prescription for flu. Wears off. [ female announcer ] stop searching and start repairing. Eucerin professional repair moisturizes while actually repairing very dry skin. The end of trial and error has arrived. Try a free sample at eucerinus. Com. Secretary of state Hillary Clinton expected to testify before congress about benghazi situation as early as this week, perhaps. Back with me now, the brain trust. Dave, matt, angela. Thanks for sticking around. Folks, what do you think will be the headline the day after secretary clinton testifies . Angela, im going to start with you. If you wrote for a publication, what would the headline be . Hillary 2016. I think hillary is going to knock it out of the box this week with her testimony. Shes going back to her old stomping grounds in capitol hill where shes got tons of allies and friends. Regardless of the outcome, the reality of the situation is you can never know what actually happened until you collect all of the data and the facts. I think shes going to fiercely defend ambassador rice. I think shes also going to defend her own honor. Definitely hillary 2016. You also have to wonder how aggressive they are even going to be with regards to questioning secretary clinton as well. Correct. I totally agree with you. Dave, what do you think . Whats the headline . Clinton i take blame for bengha benghazi. She has the awareness to more closely than i think we have heard before describe on the record what we know about it. And to be contrite. Youve seen her do this multiple times but in less showy forums. Youve seen the president do this when she was questioned about opposition to susan rice. She will do it in this format were all very aware of the theatricality of. Weve kind of already heard republicans drop off the benghazi issue. They started it by proposing so many hypotheticals that have now been proven wrong. I think she can close many pages of the book with a good performance this week. You just used a word. Theatricality. Is that a slate word . Did you just make that up . I think of it whenever i see people, member of congress, preening and trying to get witnesses to embarrass themselves on tv. I think of that word. Matt welch, whats the headline . Benghazi syonara. We have strange Coptic Christians now in jail. We have David Petraeus sex life and strange Society Women in florida. Nothing good happens here. Run screaming from this story. Hillary clinton wants to leave government and get safely away from this and from also, you know, Foreign Policy blowups that might hit the Obama Administration in the second term so she can concentrate on winning easily in 2016. Before we get out of here, angela, it wouldnt be a Weekend Edition of msnbc live if we didnt mention that theres a new poll that shows Hillary Clinton the top contender in 2016 followed by americas happy warrior joe biden at 16 . Senator elect Elizabeth Warren comes in at 4 . Whats the takeaway for you, angela . I think that people appreciate the fact that secretary clinton has demonstrated clear leadership at the state department, and they think its her turn. Its her time. Angela, matt, dave, thank you all so much. Do appreciate your time. And thanks to you as well for spending time with us this sundays afternoon. That will do it for me right now. Keep it here on msnbc for the latest news. Ill be back next saturday 2 00 until 5 00 eastern on saturday. 3 00 until 5 00 eastern on sunday. Youre watching msnbc, the place for politics. Have a fantastic sundays night. [ dylan ] this is one way to keep your underwear clean. This is another tadaa try charmin ultra strong. It cleans so well and you can use up to four times less than the leading value brand. Oh there it is. Thanks son. Hey [ female announcer ] charmin ultra strong has a duraclean texture that can help you get clean while still using less. And its four times stronger versus the leading value brand. Charmin ultra strong helps keep you and your underwear clean. We all go. Why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra strong . Is efficiently absorbed in small continuous amounts. Citracal slow release continuously releases calcium plus d with efficient absorption in one daily dose. Citracal slow release. 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