Is coming and the financial world is moving from caution, concern, now to serious worry. Heres a result of this one combined mess. It covers, look at this, the new yorker saying congress is the haunted house. Speaking of ghosts of the past, look who revealed herself in washington this weekend, sarah palin was at senator ted cruises side at a rally at the world war ii memorial. How do you tell youre losing in american politics . Sarah palin is standing right beside you. Thats how you tell youre losing in this game. Joining me right now is nbc capitol hill correspondent Kelly Odonnell. Kelly, break it down, the progress or lack thereof thats been made over the weekend and where do we stand now to potentially get out of this mess . While everyone is talking about signs of optimism, the practical prg ogress is hard to measure right now. Leader reid and leader mcconnell, while they dont have the fuzziest relationship, they are tactically skilled and are charge of this. They met saturday morning, they had one phone call on sunday. Ive checked this morning and so far no communication, although its expected they will talk today. How do you measure that . Well, the timing is so important, thomas, because as we get closer and closer to that thursday deadline, the pressure does continue to build. And one of the things that senator corker talked about is this is really now about spending. And one of the positives in that is if you are debating over numbers, theres a way to meet in the middle. When the issue was changes to the Health Care Law as the main issue that House Republicans were putting forward, theres just not an easy way to meet in the middle on that, especially when the president is not going to gut his own signature piece of legislation. So with that, a much deemphasized issue now, if youre talking about budget, how much should the government spend in the weeks and months ahead and for how long should a due debt limit, how long should that last. Thats the real question. An those are things that involve numbers and a calendar. And there is a potential for them to meet somewhere in the middle. Thomas. Nbcs Kelly Odonnell keeping an eye on all things congress. Kelly, thanks so much. Joining me right now is democratic senator from montana, jon tester. Sir, its good to have you here. The Senate Reconvenes in just a couple hours from now. This mornings Washington Post is suggesting that the troubled relationship between harry reid and Mitch Mcconnell could be the Thing Holding up this deal. We know senator harry reid wants to weed this sequester into this deal. Youve warned that this is like playing with fire. Are democrats in danger of overplaying their hand because of the polls showing republicans are taking the bulk of the blame . Well, i think ultimately what needs to happen at this point in time, and its unfortunate what weve gotten to this point, is that we need to get a plan thats going to work for the country and give some predictability to the economy moving forward. Look, both harry and mitch are adults here. They understand the impacts of fooling around with this debt ceiling. I am hopeful and somewhat confident that theyre going to come up with an agreement that will put this country on sound economic grounds. If they dont, then i think weve got some Serious Problems that are going to make what happened with lehman in 2008 look pretty good actually. You know, bipartisan plan, it was put forth by your colleague, Susan Collins, it was shot down by Senate Majority leader reid. Her plan would have reopened the government, extended the debt ceiling, delayed a medical device tax and upped the requirement for obama care income verification. She had six democrats on her side, including joe manchin, whos been very vocal about this, appeared on morning joe today. Take a look. I dont know why people dont grab something that already has attracted bipartisan. Thats why susans plan that weve worked with together and all of us working together is a good template. It takes into consideration everybodys needs and concerns, but it also does no harm, it really helps move the ball forward. Sir, do you think that the Senate Majority leader should have given this plan more consideration . I think what harry needs to do is work on a plan thats going to help move this economy forward. Sequestration, by most folks account, is done very little as far as moving this economy forward. And i think that if you talk to the economists, if you talk to policy makers back here, they will tell you that our economy needs to get popping if were going to get our deficit and debt under control. If we can get a plan Going Forward this addresses our deficit and debt and addresses the fallacy of sequestration, i think we can have a good plan moving forward. I think thats what harry is looking at. I applaud harry working with mitch to get something that we can get passed in the senate and get over to the house. What the house does with it, im not so certain. But hopefully common sense will prevail and well get a longterm plan to move the economy forward and address our deficit and debt. I like your language of get popping here because its whats needed with the time not on everybodys side but senator john mccain brought up Vice President joe biden this weekend. Had a warning for democrats as well. I want to show everybody, take a look. Democrats, they better understand something. What goes around comes around. And if they try to humiliate republicans, things change in american politics, and i know what its like to be in the majority and in the minority. And it wont be forgotten. Maybe we need to get joe biden out of the witness protection program. All right, so mccain talking about political karma. So how can your party get more deal makers at the table, like the Vice President , who was pivotal at the last impasse . This let me just say this, thomas. This is a problem that was created by congress that needs to be solved by congress. If we want to bring the executive branch in, we can. But the fact of the matter is this was a man made problem created by some pretty poor decisions on some folks part in the senate and in the house. We need to fix the problem that weve created. We shouldnt be looking to somebody else to fix it. We should be looking to ourselves to fix it and i think thats why im encouraged by harry and mitchs conversations. Is the president showing i know you said you dont want the executive branch to get involved because this is a congressional mess. But for those people that would finger point at the president , has he provided the leadership necessary to show an exit route . I think the president has done exactly what he needed to do and that was that he was not going to be put at a point where somebody was going to hold a gun to his head and he was going to have to make decisions based on that kind of that kind of situation. So i think the president has done what he needs to do. The truth of the matter is, that folks over in the house havent acted like adults and some of the folks in the senate have followed. Senator jon tester, well let you get to work. Get popping back there on the hill, sir. Thanks. Later this hour well get an opinion from the other side of the ill, republican congressman reid ribble will be my guest. Mitch mcconnell and rand paul say their state does not want obama care but the numbers tell a different story. Well talk to kentuckys governor of why people are signing up at a rate of 1,000 a day. Also can kentucky be a model for other states and Susan Collins jumps into the maledominated huddle trying to make a deal in washington. Our agenda panel will jump into why more women, specifically republican women are stepping up to the plate. That leads to todays big question. Do you think that wed be able to reach a debt deal sooner if more women, if women in general were in charge of these negotiations . Weigh in on twitter and facebook. Were back after this. Theres growing anger this morning over the death of a young philadelphia student and its placing the spotlight on the citys School Budget crisis. Sixth grader la portia massey died from complications of asthma. Budget cuts in the district has restricted the school to a nurse just two days a week. But the American Federation of teachers contends the schools would have more cash on happened if the states republican governor would release 45 million in federal funds ear marked for the sdrichblgt joining me is randi weingarten. Its good to have you here. I know you penned a letter to pennsylvanias governor specifically about that money saying well never know if having a school nurse onsite could have spared la portias life but School Nurses are trained to detect symptoms of asthma attacks. Mr. Governor, we can do better and we must. Have you gotten a response to that letter . And where does that money sit in perpetuity . Of course i havent gotten a response to it. You know what, this is what angers me about this. Look, i am an asthmatic myself and so we dont know if a school nurse would have saved la portias life, but a school nurse is trained to detect the invisible symptoms of asthma, because asthma just constricts your lungs. So somebody can look like its not an emergency, theyre not blue in the face, but your lungs are getting more and more and more constricted. And thats what a school nurse can do that those of us who are, you know, regular School Teachers will not be able to do. But what has happened in that 45 million is that bob brady and others in washington were able to get that money to the School System in philadelphia, no strings attached. But because it has to go through the state, then corbett, the governor, put strings on it. This money should go to schools so we have School Nurses, so we have Guidance Counselors, so the kids actually have a decent start in life. And specific to laportias case, the spokesman for Bryan Elementary School told a local paper, quote, you see that a child is not breathing, you will call 911. Thats the same situation you will have in any location, a mall, a school, a day care center. He goes on to say the emergency actually happened at laportias home so it is fair to blame budget cuts. As we look at the budget cuts here, because she did show symptoms at school but she did not show the major symptoms until home and her father got to take her to the hospital. But i know that the adult in the room at the school who was noticing her symptoms, they called home a couple times, they couldnt get somebody, but they didnt have a school nurse to take her to. Exactly. They dont have a school nurse. Thats why im saying that this meant so much look, one out of 11 people nationally have asthma. One out of five kids in philadelphia have asthma. Asthma is a silent killer. But what happens with asthma is that you are not going to see people who are not trained medically are not going to see the symptoms, and so if you call 911 with a child saying i cant breathe and shes breathing, 911 is not going to come. Heres the bigger thing, randi, with schools having a nurse two days a week are kids supposed to plan the days their kids get sick. So most parents take refuge their kids are going to school and professionals will be taking care of their child. I know these nurses are disappearing across the country, that is we look in major cities, los angeles has reduced School Nursing staff by 13 , cleveland laid off 55 . In philly its one nurse for every 1500 students. San diego has cut half its School Nurses. Bottom line, are schools compromising the safety of the kids, the lives of the kids because of these budget cuts . Yes, absolutely. So when we see the effects of sequestration, when we see the effects of the 1 billion budget cut that corbett did to the philly schools, this is the evidence of it. So how many times can we keep on saying give us that 45 million so kids can have School Nurses and Guidance Counselors and their Extracurricular Activities back and their enrichment back. Thats what government is supposed to do. Its supposed to invest in kids, not try to point fingers when a childs life has been snuffed out. Yeah, this is really sad for the massey family especially, but to know for so many kids they dont have a school nurse, its kind of ridiculous. Keep us posted if you get a letter or any type of response from the governor. I will. Randi weingarten, great to have you here, as always. So she vanished on a family holiday six years ago. Why British Police are launching a new push in the disappearance of Madeleine Mccann. And a woman on a Breast Cancer walk ends up dangling 22 feet from a railroad bridge. Well show you how she was able to get down safely. Ay. For seeing what cash is coming in and going out. So you can understand every angle of your cash flow last week, this month, and even next year. For seeing your businesss cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. 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Tylenol cold®. So we know the republicans have been bashing obama care for months, even years, and senator minority leader Mitch Mcconnell and senator rand paul, both of kentucky, wrote a recent oped saying obama care might sell in new york but kentuckians arent buying it. The Governors Office says people are signing up at a rate of 1,000 a day. As of 9 00 a. M. This morning, almost 11,000 people have signed up. Joining me now is Kentucky Governor steve beshear. You are a governor of a red state, a democrat of a red state. We havent heard any numbers coming out from the federal government about enrollment nationwide. We know there have been a lot of glitches in the federal Exchange System so explain what kentucky has done differently. Your system is called connect. Explain how youve been able to make it work. Thomas, we worked on it for a long time. We did a lot of planning. We took every Planning Grant that the federal government offered. We got ready, pulled all of our folks together, coordinated it well and its working. As youve mentioned, weve had 225,000 people as of 9 00 this morning swarming all over that website. Were signing people up about 1,000 a day to get Affordable Health care. So its working in kentucky. All right, so you talk about it working because of the preparation that went into it. You basically pushed through to make sure that this happened, against republican roadblocks that were happening in your state. We know a lot of republican governors around the country, they have not been, shall we say, lit on fire to make this fire. But connect had so much traffic on the first day, the system went down in about six hours. You all had to provide more servers to deal with that surge. Were you surprised at the overwhelming response especially when the drum beat from the right kentucky senators, rand paul and Mitch Mcconnell say kentuckians dont want this . On october 1, it was probably the most exciting day of my governorship. You know, this is not a political decision for me, its a moral decision. Weve got 640,000 uninsured kentuckians. Our Health Statistics are awful. And they have been awful ever since they started keeping Health Statistics. And so if i had an opportunity to finally get every kentuckian to have access to health care, we needed to do so. Its economically the right decision. I had a study done by pricewaterhouse coopers, it is going to create a 15 billion positive impact over the next eight years and 17,000 new jobs. So both from an economic standpoint and from a moral standpoint, its simply the right thing to do. One of the criticisms of the federal exchange, users have to create the account before they can surf for the plans that they want. It actually makes the signup longer and more complicated. What would your suggestions be . Again, youve been doing this since october 1st. So youve got time and successful time under your belt. What do you suggest the federal system could do to be improved . Well, obviously were not experiencing the volume that theyre experiencing. And in their defense, i think that nobody ever expected when they first got this bill into law that 37 states would just fall back and let the federal government do it. So i know theyre working hard. Theyll make it work. You know, glitches are going to happen. When youve got millions of people like they do from all over the country, its going to be a lot of glitches. But weve got a good long time to get this done and its going to happen. Were going to get eventually all 640,000 of those kentuckians enrolled or in medicaid. You know, were the only Southern State that is both expanding medicaid and running our own Health Benefit exchange. And ill tell you, its going to put us in a better competitive position. Were going to be better off than a lot of these other states. Were going to be more competitive. Were going to have a workforce that will help bring business into this state and create more jobs. Im excited about it. Kentucky governor steve beshear. Sir, thank you for joining us. Again, more states can learn about connects success just by looking at your example, so thank you. Thank you. Heres a look at some of the other stories topping the news for you. British authorities are reporting a man has been arrested trying to enter Buckingham Palace carrying a knife. That man, who authorities describe as british, is in police custody. No one was injured and the queen was not at the palace. British Police Investigating the 2007 disappearance of 3yearold Madeleine Mccann have now released two new composite drawings of a man they want to question about her suspected abduction. Police say they have a more detailed reconstruction of what happened around her disappearance and the timeline and version of the events has significantly changed. Madelines parents, who were initially regarded as suspects, spoke out on british tv. The person who has gone into the apartment and taken a little girl away from her family. Police say all 19 boys who went missing from a new mexico ranch for troubled youth are with their families. The teens, ages 13 to 17 were reported missing after police executed a search warrant at the ranch. They were investigating reports that boys were being beaten, shackled for days and denied food. A terrifying ordeal for a woman on a Breast Cancer walk ends well in florida. Look at this video. This is a picture of the Woman Holding on for dear life underneath a drawbridge. It lit up twitter over the weekend. She held on for an hour before firefighters came to her rescue with a 24foot ladder. Still no word on how she originally got stuck, although some are speculating this could have been a stunt. And the George ClooneySandra Bullock outer space dramatic soared to the top of the box office for the second week in a row. Captain phillips the true story of a cargo captain who protected his crew after he was hijacked by somali pirates came in number two. It grossed 26 million in its opening week. Gravity is working against me first day of my life by bright eyes youre not just looking for a house. Youre looking for a place for your life to happen. Prefer the taste of gevalia house blend over the taste of starbucks house blend . Not that we like tooting our own horn but. Toot toot. [ male announcer ] find gevalia in the coffee aisle or at gevalia. Com got it i. Did not get it. [ female announcer ] you may not be the best with a smart phone but you know whats best for your kids. So we listened when you said gogurt should have only natural colors and flavors and no high fructose corn syrup. Thanks, mom. They havent put us on suicide watch yet, but theyre concerned about us. We do have to start talking, but we have to do that without being in the midst of crisis moment and without jeopardizing our full faith and credit. All right, so the house is scheduled to go back into session in just about a half hour from now. With no break in the gridlock, the cochairs of president obamas Deficit Commission are taking action. Erskine bowles and alan simpleson are launching a new ad tomorrow to tout their solution of fixing the debt. For crying out loud, erskine, whos not fed up with whats going on in washington . These politicians are playing games. Ignoring all the longterm problems we face. Al, its going to take some real political courage for folks to start working together. Joining me now is republican congressman reid ribble. Sir, its great to have you here. Theyre talking about more people joining together and working together. We saw congressman peter king on morning joe today also saying that this cannot go on. Basically giving the same message about trying to Work Together and breaking through some of the rhetoric. Take a listen. We, as republicans, have to anticipate theres going to be another one of these in six weeks or eight weeks or three months, whatever it is. We just cant have republicans, National Republicans credit sieg criticizing the system or saying this was the wrong decision to make. We have to anticipate that ted cruz is going to try to do this again. Ted cruz and 30 or 40 people in the house. We have to start going after him my name. Ive been doing it all along. I wish i had more company on it. Hearing more about ted cruz there, calling him out by name. I know youve been very vocal saying its crazy talk for some of your republican colleagues to think about defaulting on our nations debt. Why is there a small group that seems to have John Boehners control . I dont know that thats necessarily a totally accurate description. You have to have 218 votes in the house of representatives to pass anything. You could make the same argument over in the senate. Im kind of an equal opportunity basher, bipartisan basher on this whole thing. Do you think if a clean cr went to the floor it wouldnt have the votes . Im not sure at this point because everything has moved toward answering the big question, which is now the debt limit. I think we need to stay focused on that, because the big systemic threat that we have this week. I think weve got to move off of the conversation on the cr and actually focus on the real issue, which is the debt limit. You can do both of these at one time, but im more concerned about getting an agreement on the debt limit. And i actually have a tendency to agree with Erskine Bowles and alan simpson on the philosophy that we have to deal with the big longterm threats that face this country. Thats where we need to come together. And by the way, there are a lot of sidebar meetings going on in the house of representatives with republicans and democrats that are outside of leadership, trying to find a path forward. Theres a lot of discussions that i think are actually constructive and instructive for the American People because theyre happening out of sight and out of mind. But in reality, they are starting to shape the debate a bit. All right, so lets talk about where that debate is being shaped. As you point out, its almost putting the cart before the horse the fact that were now dealing with the debt ceiling in a Government Shutdown mode. However, you feel that dealing with the debt ceiling at this point is a true pivot point for the nations economy and its sending the wrong message internationally. Explain. Well, i think that we have to demonstrate internationally that we can actually function and we can govern ourselves here. But both sides have dug in their heels and both sides would make an argument that they have got good reasons for digging in their heels. But the reality is that the American People suffer and the economy suffers when both sides dig in so harshly. Ive got my own opinions and im a very conservative guy and my voting record bears that out but im at a pragmatist and i realize that weve got to actually get around and get to the real point here. The debt limit is simply a symptom of a bigger problem where revenues and spending are out of balance. Weve got to somehow get those back in balance and we have to look at the biggest expenses that the government faces, which are they center around the Health Care Arena and retirement plans. When i talk about retirement plans, i would include Social Security in there. Thats where all the money is going. Talking about the full slate of entitlements here. Ted cruz and sarah palin attended a rally over the weekend at the world war ii vets memorial. They pretty much stoked the public anger over the shutdown. Akin to working to close a Grocery Store and then being outraged that the bread aisle is closed. At that rally there were people carrying confederate flags, calling president obama a muslim. These are the voices that are showing up and with the faces of the republican party, you know, branches of it anyway, ted cruz and certainly sarah palin has a following, but these people are showing up with your brand stamped on them. Are you worried about that and what it means for your party Going Forward . Sure, im worried about it. Im always worried about the brand, because i think we can damage the brand. We ought to be the party that is actually looking out for todays current seniors and tomorrows future seniors, children like my two grandsons, ben and joseph, they deserve a government that can actually solve these problems. What we need to do is get everyone to set their sword down for a minute and actually have a grownup conversation. I think all the bomb throwing, whether its coming from the right or coming from the left is counter productive to a negotiation thats required. And quite frankly, i dont know that the president has actually led much in this deal because he has this kind of im a negotiating nonnegotiator and i dont think that thats particularly helpful either. We need to have everybody at the table and we need to have the reasonable reasoned voices at the table so that we can find some solution here. Sir, i think people will relate to this, that youre worried about your grandkids and many people feel the same way. But people like me are worried about their parents who are on fixed incomes and rely on Social Security. So all these people that have paid in, all of these years their entire lifetime, has been invested into this promise and now this is what they get. Yeah, and my concern here, quite frankly, for your parents is that the promise gets broken. And my brother passed away december 31st and he was on Social Security disability income. That was his whole source of income. But that fund goes insolvent in 2016. So to stick our heads in the sand and say we cant address it doesnt help your mom and dad, didnt help my brother and wouldnt help my grandchildren. We have to actually face up to the fact that there have been promises made. We have a massive shift in demographics. And your parents and my grandkids deserve the same types of protection. And that means we have to talk about this. And there are solutions. Ive put forward my own solutions on it and i would like to see other leaders come forward with theirs. If they dont like my ideas, give us yours and lets have that discussion so that we can protect your mom and dad and we can protect my grandchildren. As long as the debate continues, just figure it out for us, sir. Well work hard at it. Reid ribble of wisconsin. Thank you, sir, i appreciate your time. I want to bring in our agenda panel. Dafna linzer, ryan grim and corey dade. Gang, thanks for being here. Ryan, let me start with you. Do you know whats bad and should people know whats bad when sarah palin comes out and support shows up in washington, d. C. With ted cruz . Is it a sign that tea partiers are sticking together . It is. Its kind of a retreat. The tea party is down to about id say roughly 20 of the population still has you know, still considers themself a part of this movement. But, you know, its not as if the people in the other 80 look with any sympathy on that 20 . If it were like these are the diehards, these are the activists, but everybody kind of thanks them for the work that theyre doing for the country, that would be one thing. But they are in it, increasingly isolated and anilistic bunch. Some of them are getting to an attitude of a spurned lover looking at this country. If i cant have her then nobody can. They kind of see themselves losing the country and, you know, this is the reaction to it. Its complete and total anarchy and chaos. Corey, the daily beast has an article that says the fight over the debt seal and the shutdown are an impeachment on the cheap. It was a great read. Is this the goal to keep president obamas government from actually working . Their goal was to make him a oneterm president and that did not work. Now theyre playing for keeps pause theyre trying to set the stage to energize the base for the 2016 president ial election. And what theyre doing by not actually passing any meaningful legislation beyond this point is theyre endangering their own party nationally. Immigration, the restoration of section 4 of the Voting Rights act, all these things that the public, that polls show the public are behind. You know, if theyre not taking sort of active steps to pass these issues, to actually work with obama on anything, theyre risking their brand. And they have as much success at succeeding at this as the Dallas Cowboys had of losing to the redskins yesterday. Shameless plug. The short game, watching some of the boomerang of this could come and the results could show up in 2014 for the republicans. Today on morning joe Debbie Wasserman schultz said women on the hill could help foster and lead the way through the woods. Take a listen. If we put all the women, republican and democrat in the house together, the consensus from all of us is that we would get this done in a few hours. I would argue that even if sarah palin were in the room, that we could find a way to get together. Thats like a triple dog dare, dafna. Even if sarah palin were in the room we could figure out a way to get this done. Msnbc. Com also takes a look at how women are shaping up the talk. So explain, are republican women worried about whats going on . We know that Susan Collins was over the weekend trying to spearhead her own effort. Sarah palin is not in the room and neither is michele bachmann. These two Tea Party Women are just not part of this effort, though, as you said thats being spearheaded by republican women who have had a very successful year in working very closely with their democratic counterparts on everything from military Sexual Assault to other kinds of benefits for women across the country. And i think that republican women, especially, are seeing the effects of the shutdown on their party. The fact that women are watching the effects of the shutdown very closely and i think they really want to try and move their party in a different direction and away from where the tea party is taking it at this moment. So it would be a nice fantasy to think that more of our female leaders could help get everybody out of this mess. However, the weight, ryan, seems to be falling on reid and Mitch Mcconnell. But the personal dysfunction of their relationship, is that really a linchpin . They know that the country is resting on their professionalism. I think theyll be able to put that aside. You know, you have to think about how remarkable it is that were in a place where we say, oh, the United States senate is taking a look at this. Were probably going to be okay. You know, thats how thats how dysfunctional we have gotten, that we actually look to the senate to save us. But every deal that has been struck in the last several years has gone through this exact same pattern. The house pretends like its going to come to something, things blow up with the white house and then they rely on the senate to bail them up and then they jam it through the house. Corey, are democrats kind of pickling themselves a little too much in the joy of all of this because of the republicans getting so much blame and now they seem willing to take more advantage of it than finding a solution . Yeah, thomas, they do have to be careful here. They dont want to overreach. As we know over the years, the republicans have been graded, you know, snatching victory in key ways but they overreach. In this case the democrats until now are playing it just right. You know, the moment that their base starts to shift, the moment that the public starts to shift toward them and start criticizing them, they will have to dial it back. The one thing they have on their side is branding. The Democratic Party is not the party thats associated with antigovernment. So the idea that theyre going to take the biggest hit off of the shutdown or the debt limit increase, theyre not because theyre not associated with that kind of tactic in general. But they do have to be careful. Todays agenda panel, dafna linzer, ryan grim, corey dade, thanks, gang. Corey, thanks for your shoutout to your football team. Get more on our website, tv. Msnbc. Com. Just follow the link to my name. Give s me rates for progressive direct and other Car Insurance companies . Yes. But youre progressive, and theyre them. Yes. But theyre here. Yes. Are you. . There . Yes. No. Are you them . Im me. But those rates are for. Them. So them are here. Yes you want to run through it again . No, im good. You got it . Yes. Rates for us and them now thats progressive. Call or click today. Into an easy dinner with crescent dogs. Just separate, add hot dogs, cheese, roll em up, and bake. Lookin hot, cdog. Pillsbury crescents. Make dinner pop. Pillsbury crescents. Ve got nice long ld. Big plans. So when i found out medicare doesnt pay all my medical expenses, i got a Medicare Supplement insurance plan. 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President obamas record on pardons may surprise even political observers. Heres ari melber with the latest edition of presumed guilty. When the Justice System gets it wrong, the constitution grants the president a special power to make things right, but its a power president obama rarely uses. I think this is going to surprise a lot of people, but this president is the most miserly pardoner of any modern president. The numbers back that up. Barack obama has the lowest clemency rate in modern history. At the same point in his presidency, bill clinton had pardoned one in every eight applicants. George w. Bush, 1 in every 33. President obama, just one in every 50. Why does the pardon power matter . The constitution empowers the president to decide when the interests of justice are served by overturning a conviction or shortening an unfair prison sentence. Beyond individual mistakes in the courtroom, one of the most compelling reasons to use the pardon power is to release americans serving prison terms for activities that the law would punish differently today. A prime example, the shifting approach to the war on drugs. The Justice Department is no longer seeking harsh penalties for some nonviolent drug users, but it has yet to apply that same logic to inmates serving time right now for those same offenses. At the other end, the executive himself has discretion under the pardon power, and i think theres a correlating imperative to use it at both ends. Mark osler runs the law clinic at st. Thomas university in minnesota. We have people serving time, over 5,000 people probably serving time under harsh crack laws that have now been undone by congress. Among the 5,000 is clarence errand, in prison for two decades since the age of 23. A firsttime offender, he was still given the maximum sentence for arranging a meeting between two drug dealers. Three consecutive life terms in prison. Obama has the power to release him right now. Theres a lot of people now currently serving sentences. Had they been sentenced today, they would already be out. Dafna linzer, managing editor of msnbc. Com, coauthored a series on the issue with the Washington Post. It would take the president the stroke of a pen on ca commutations to right that disparity now. They invited the Obama Administration to discuss the issue and they declined the interview request. For an administration that has battled congress over protecting many of the president s constitutional powers, the pardon power is rarely discussed or used, and its not clear what would change that or whether thousands like clarence errand will have a shot at mercy or a life behind bars. Ari melber, cohost of the cycle joins me on set. Its an amazing piece. Clarence errand, its hard to believe that he got three life sentences for a firsttime offender. Thats just amazing, it blows my mind. Dafna, coining that phrase miserly pardoner. Almost like Scrooge Mcduck when it comes to giving out any type of recognition. Is that because of backlash . We dont know. As i mention there in the piece, the white house declined to participate in this project, which suggests sensitivity right there because they do grant other types of interviews. There isnt a lot of understanding about how this pardon power and these commutations can actually make justice work. If people have served some of their time, under the constitution the president can do this. I dont think there has to be a backlash particularly for nonviolent offenders. Do you think that that would make him a target, though, honestly for the critics that have been there from the very beginning, that this would just open up another style of achilles heel . Possibly. Another person we interviewed for this piece whos written books about this said that while the old politics worked that way, nowadays when you look at the reaction to eric holders reforms, which were sweeping in saying lets be smart on crime and not keep people in prison for so long, there wasnt a lot of conservative attacks. In fact some people like rand paul, a tea party leader, praised eric holder and said we can Work Together on this. I think the politics of this are potentially shifting. I think regardless of the politics, this is a secondterm president. We have a failed war on drugs. We have over 5,000 people, as we report here in the piece, that are stuck in jail for nonviolent drug abuses that are no longer criminalized the same way today. Do you think the president will ramp up his record toward the end . I think thats possible, but i think thats dangerous. Dafna linzer, who has done a lot of reporting on this, talks about the fact that a rushed process at the end can lead to the mistakes lead to the very kind of mistakes that can upset pardon power. Last point. President george w. Bush told barack obama one thing when they were in the limousine on the way to inauguration. He said be careful with the pardon power. Put a plan in place early. I fear they havent done that. Great to see you. Catch him this afternoon. More indepth analysis. The latest of presumed guilty. Again, dont miss the cycle at 3 00. Todays producers pick comes from associate producer. Dropped out of playing lead role of 50 shades of grey. University studio said sons of anarchy stepped aside because of busy tv schedule. There are reports he got cold feet about starring in the highly anticipated movie franchise. Now the hunt is on for a replacement. I dont think its a bad idea. I think he made a wise choice. For more on the story head to my facebook page. 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Hp is helping ups do just that. Soon, the worlds most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance, using forty percent less energy. Multiply that across over a thousand locations, and theyll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60,000 trees. Thats a trend we can all get behind. Mission control at 4 oxygen and dropping, please advise. Mission control is not here right now but can i take a message. What do you mean they are not here . This is awkward but the government has shut down. It turns out im the only essential employee in the place. That was a spoof on snl. Maybe that wont be the case any longer as were getting breaking news that the president is going to meet this afternoon coming up at 3 00, the president and Vice President this bipartisan by k m camm cammca meeting. The debt ceiling looming thursday the 17th. We asked and you answered, the question being would we reach a debt deal sooner if women were in charge of the negotiations. Barbara tweeted we would never be in this pissing contest if women were in charge. I dont think so. Women can be as tough as men, sometimes tougher. Steve, if women were in charge we wouldnt have a debt ceiling. Again, the president and Vice President will meet with minority leader mcconnell, boehner, pelosi and reed coming up this afternoon at 3 00. Thats going to wrap up this hour for me. Ill see you tomorrow at 11 00 eastern, Chris Matthews and senator murphy join our conversation as the u. S. Government gets closer to the fall. Hopefully this afternoon well put out positive notes. Now with alex wagner coming up next. Alex, you are very close by in washington, d. C. We are trying to emanate the strongest positive vibrations we can, thomas, so we do not go into economic catastrophe. I dont know how successful we will be. We are live, as you said, in the Nations Capital for day 14 of the shutdown. Can reed and mcconnell right a finale. Can he reprice his role as hapless leader from fiscal cliff. Robert gibbs, deedee myers and robert costa. Plus, Whose Republican Party is it anyway . We will discuss tensions, schisms and grand old identity crisis. Obama Health Care Rollout and sports. All that right after this. [ girl ] roses are red. Violets are blue. Splenda® is sweet. And so are you. [ female announcer ] just about anywhere you use sugar, you can use splenda® no calorie sweetener. Splenda® lets you experience the joy of sugar without all the calories. Its a very good reason to enjoy Something Sweet with the ones you love. Think sugar, say splenda™ [ male announcer ] maybe youve already heard what theyre saying about the nissan altima. And we have to admit, that its all true. But dont just take their word for it, check it out for yourself. The awardwinning nissan altima. Nissan. 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