Chris Hayes discusses the days top news. And that may not be the end of it. New york republican Chris Collins was just indicted for Insider Trading and today, in a story we dont have time for tonight, the Second Congress to endorse him, California RepublicanDuncan Hunter was also indicted for Campaign Finance violations. Noticeably did not mention Michael Cohen by name. I feel badly for both. I must tell you that Paul Manafort is a good man. He was with ronald reagan. He was with a lot of different people over the years and i feel very sad about that. It doesnt involve me, but i still feel, you know, it is a very sad thing that happened. Nothing to do with russian collusion. Had nothing to do with russian collusion. We continue the witch hunt. Thank you very much. Mr. President , what about
months about who should look at the evidence that was seized from Michael Cohen and how should that process go through and a tremendous amount of media attention, Stormy Daniels was in line. It felt more like a new york city nightclub than a hearing. Today it was different. As soon as Michael Cohen entered the courtroom, the entire courtroom quieted down. No gasps or any sort of outburst from the crowd at all. The thing that was interesting, is he started to talk about the actual campaign. He starts talking about the president and everybody at that moment had this kind of stunning sense of wait a minute, Michael Cohen, the president s former personal attorney is directly implicated him to the crimes he is pleading guilty today. Chris Hayes discusses the days top news. So pled guilty to that. And count 7 and eight, in count 7 that is specifically to the payment made to karen mcdougal. And the payment made to Stormy Daniels. The president directly involved. A lot of statements made about how the cases that have been brought so far are tied to mueller specifically or come out of muellers investigation. This is one of those cases that dont have anything to do with the president. Yeah, and we should note the timing here is, this is going on in late october of 2016. Exactly. Two weeks before the election. The payments that he made, the question was the position taken by people around this defending the president , defending Michael Cohen, well, this is nothing to do with the
campaign. Today he saturdays this is all about the campaign. Exactly. Done to influence the campaign. So this is something that is specific to the campaign. Involves american media, the national enquirer. So you have got a lot of different players that have been talked about in president reports before. We have been hearing about this for six months or longer. And everything that everybody says wasnt true, you played the clip of the president saying i didnt know about that payment and today with Yyou Have The Pe attorney saying the president was personally involved. It is a he said he said. And you have other Corroborating Evidence that can back it up. Corroborating evidence that was coordinated with individual one that was named. Quotations of things that
pa people said and described. Including text messages. So yeah, there is a lot there. You are a veteran reporter on Crime And Punishment here and you know a lot of investigators, and you are very well sourced. If individual one was joe blow, a guy from new york, not the president of the United States. Individual one would be worried right now that they were in the cross hairs of this indictment and federal investigation. I think so. I have to do more digging around. If you direct somebody to make these payments, you might have criminal liability. So something we are going to have to watch in the coming days and weeks. The other thing is were there other people involved in this in the campaign. Tom winter. Thank you very much. I am joined by Retired Federal Court judge nancy gertner. And harry litman. Of the president as far as crime and justice go. Nancy, what did you make of today . Well, this was pretty elaborate. There are a couple of things about it. It is not usual for someone to walk into court and not ever been confronted with the charges and plead guilty all at the same time. The government avoids an indictment and they bring what is called an information and he pleads guilty to the information. The Plea Agreement Notes what the federal guidelines would be which is upwards around five years. Notably, there is no Cooperation Agreement here. No indication that he is going to cooperate. As harry knows, it is clear that he will. No question about it. Not part of this agreement, but we will see another agreement making it clear that he is going to cooperate in exchange for some deal here. Okay. I want to stop there, this has been a big question all day. The news breaks that he is pleading. And there is battling reports. He is going to cooperate, he is not going to cooperate. And he comes out and there is no Cooperation Agreement. You are saying the nature, the strangeness of the process where things are truncated you dont think there is something possible. What was the incentive for the government to come forward now given the nature of the evidence that according to the Court Proceedings they had against Michael Cohen. Why did they agree for an information and for him to plead guilty. If not that there is an ongoing conversation about the nature of his cooperation, it would be astonishing if that werent so. And why would Michael Cohen go into court and fall on his sword
had said so and possibly, possibly, this is a wild card to avoid any inference of bringing a charge after september 1st, the supposed magic day. But they do that but with the understanding and good faith that you couldnt reach with an attorney that he Couldnt Trust that he is going to be talking to mueller and giving it all up and that will affect his sentence going forward. And there may be a separate agreement or an understanding of people who know each other well enough who trust. Without some understanding of what the Cooperation Facts will be. That is illuminating. Thank you both for that. It makes more sense of what we saw today. Thank you both. I want to bring in democratic
member. Joaquin castro. For years Michael Cohen was Donald Trumps fixer, and today he became americas fixer by letting us know in court that we have an unindicted sitting in the white house. I believe they should open an investigation tomorrow morning. Into the possibility of criminal action taken by the president as sworn today by Michael Cohen . It would be absolutely that. The allegations made, Sworn Testimony made by Michael Cohen in court. There was some reporting today that people inside the white house were telling reporters that well, you cant indict a president. What is your response to that . Well, i think the law is unclear about that. I dont think that there is a definitive answer to that. But putting that aside, the congress has an obligation to act. Now, i realize that for good reason, millions of americans have basically lost faith in the republican majority taking any kind of action against this president. We have to do everything we can to press them to take action. There is a question here now, seems to be a profound one, that if individual one is indicted here, they would be exposed to individual threat. Insulates you from any kind of Recr Recrimations from those actions. Do you become immune from prosecution simply because you won the election . You committed a crime that helped you win the election and now become president and now you
have won immunity as well as the election. The issue of prosecution is not necessarily off the table. I dont know that with Something Like this, a crime like this, that you should be able to cheat, win the election because you cheat and therefore have immunity. Have you been in conversation, you know, today there is so many stories that come out of the trump white house. Today is a remarkably significant day. Are you talking with other members of your caucus about what happened today and is there that sense . I have had some conversations and i think you felt this momentum growing throughout the day that started with the question of whether there would be a verdict in the manafort trial and then moving on to Michael Cohen. In a sense, the president has lucked out that you have one
chamber of congress, the house of representative that is out of session until september 4th. That allows paul ryan give an answer in part, saying i need more information before i do anything and basically, by the way, my folks arent here anywhere. The senate is in session so they should react immediately. Congressman thank you very much. Here today is chief executive reporter jonathan deanst, and paul s. Ryan. Which proves to be a key part of this story. I want to start with what the assistant u. S. Attorney said today about the nature of these charges and get your reaction
about what happened here. Take a listen. Mr. Cohen pled guilty to two Campaign Finance charges. One for causing an Unlawful Campaign contribution. Both for the purpose of influencing the 2016 election. In addition, what he did was he worked to pay money to silence two women who had information that he believed would be detrimental to the campaign. Why are they crimes . First of all, they are saying that he is a lawyer and he knew better. He absolutely knew what he was doing. That is part one. Two, his involvement with the Trump Campaign coordinating, coordinated with other members
of the campaign, and the question is who are they . Who else are they in touch with . One or two members . That is also in part of the still to come questions. Thats a great question, aside from individual one being the president , other people who knew about this. Communicated about the payments made to silence these women and it goes to the question of conspiracy. Paul, you work for an organization that is devoted to Campaign Finance and sort of Campaign Finance regulation. And you filed campaign, why did you file the campaign when the news broke. It was obvious that there were serious Campaign Finance laws here. Back in january we filed the complaint relating to allegations. In february, another complaint regarding the complaint to karen mcdougal. And in march, to add michael
cohen when Additional Information came out about those violations. It was clear to us that illegal contributions had been made and important to note that President Trump had been implicated in not only receiving those, but also additional violations of federal cam tain finance law. His failure and his committees failure to disclose. It is illegal to lie to the federal government. Those statutes as applying to Campaign Finance reports. President trump and his campaign are potentially in violation of even more statutes that Michael Cohen pled guilty to today. You are saying when you file fse reports, it can be sber
interpreted as lying to the federal government. The Department Of Justice regularly includes when it prosecutes people when violating campaign disclose. Where do you see the tentacles of this case going next . I think it goes down to d. C. And mr. Muellers report. What led up to today is he was not prepared to take a plea. And then the federal government said we are moving forward. We are going to charge him this week. And some of these counts carried 30 years plus. And then you start to add that up and you are talking decades of potential prison time and that brought him and his lawyers to the table this weekend saying okay, we want to take a plea. He want to take a deal. And again, it Doesnt Spell Out Cooperation here. If you read between the lines
there seems to be already cooperation and admissions and you might expect to see future cooperations moving forward. You are endorsing what the previous guest had said about there is no formal Cooperation Agreement but what happens today makes no sense. There is either an understanding or a sealed agreement that we dont know about. That is a possibility. We dont know that. I would probably go with what your previous guest said, there is an understanding among the attorneys who know each other. They have something that is called a five k letter. Lets of prison time is going to depend on cooperation. Faces three to six years under this plea. If he cooperates. Hey, look, look how helpful this guy is. You get zero jail time, one year instead of three to five years. That is a possibility. The question is how much jail time is what mr. Cohen is willing to serve. Take a listen. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so that im going to do that right away. When it comes time for the financing listen. What financing . We will have to pay no, no. Is that significant in terms of the legal exposure to the president of the United States in this case . Yeah. I think it definitely tells us, it is evidence that the president knew about these payments early on in the process despite his denial of the fact. And his knowledge is what puts him on the hook for potential
violations of law. Now it is up to the Department Of Justice to hold powcohen accountability. Thanks to you both. To examine todays guilty verdict, i am joined by Senior Fellow at witkins. And elizabeth de la vega. Lets talk first, i have not gotten to it today, but before we get to it, the significance of the mueller investigation. Well, which federal court . The answer in both cases is that we dont know. Because we dont know, a, how much Paul Manafort or Michael Cohen really knows about the
matters that are core to the mueller investigation. We kind of suspect that they may know something important. And we dont know, we kind of know in cohens case that he is going to end up cooperating, but we dont know what Paul Manafort who has made peculiar strategic judgments about how to proceed in his own case will interpret eight counts of conviction today from a jury and whether that will perhaps light a fire under his chair to, you know, to talk in a serious way to the prosecutors for the first time. So i dont think we dont know and it is reasonable to hypothesize that it could provide a significant incentive and a motive for mr. Manafort to take a deep breath and come to a
different judgment. Elizabeth, what do you think . I think regarding manafort, he is a pretty hard core international, and many reasons to not cooperate. He has got problems with ukraine, and problems with people with whom he has been dealing for so many years. I think Paul Manafort is in just about the worst situation of any criminal defendant i have encountered. I cant predict one way or another what he would do. With regard to Michael Cohen, i dont think we need to go as far as speculating. It is almost a certainty that he is going to cooperate and he knows a great deal about trumps activities in every sphere for decades now. And im not just saying that based on Public Knowledge regarding the cooperation, im not just speculating about that. I am saying based on the Plea Agreement itself. It is an elegantly drawn Plea Agreement that charges was a fraction of the criminal charges that could have been brought against cohen and just enough to tie him to donald trump but not so much that it reveals more than The Mueller Team or the Southern District could want to reveal at this time and specifically says he wont be charged for anything based on the facts in that Plea Agreement but it says also that it Means Nothing about possible additional charges. So his incentive isnt in the form of a Cooperation Clause within that agreement itself, but rather to avoid future
charges. Ben, it struck me today when we talk about the investigation of collusion, we know there is alleged criminal activities criminal sabotage. The effect it had is, you know, a sort of arguing point. Today we got in other interference by the Trump Campaign of violation of federal law that is significant. Quashing those stories when they did is not a small thing. Two weeks with the Access Hollywood happy tape is a big the circumstances when the access Hollywood Tape was released. And you say what would have happened if a porn star had come forward at that point and talked about what Stormy Daniels has subsequently come forward and talked about. And i think it is reasonable to
hypothesize that a certain number of votes might have been different. There is no way to know that. But i do think if you say was it a rational judgment on the part of donald trump according to Michael Cohen, and Michael Cohen that this was a story that was worth breaking the law and spending a lot of money to suppress in the two weeks before the election, yeah, that is a rational judgment and i think they probably did it for a reason. And you know, without condoning the criminality of it which i dont condone, i have to say, i totally understand why they didnt want that story to come out. This is a guy who wouldnt pay painting contractors elizabeth, the witch hunt
continues, no collusion, they still havent found the smoking gun linking us to the russian crime. This continues to be much ado about nothing, you are shaking your head. Yes, i am. It is getting to be a very old song. But what he keeps doing is continuing to try to undermine the investigation in the minds of the public and hoping i guess against all hope i believe that he can somehow stop this train that is very far away from the station right now. And it is moving quickly towards him. So who can say why donald trump keeps doing what he is doing but i think he cant help himself actually. Thanks for joining us. Still to come, much more, much more to talk about on this monumental news day including a jury finding the campaign
chairman guilty on eight counts. We will dive into that. If congress should handle the agenda of the president surrounded now. Dont go anywhere. Im ray and i quit smoking with chantix. I tried cold turkey, i tried the patch. They didnt work for me. I didnt think anything was going to work for me until i tried chantix. Chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. Chantix reduced my urge to smoke. I needed that to quit. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. Serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be lifethreatening. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. Tell your Healthcare Provider if youve had depression or other Mental Health problems. Decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. Use caution when driving or operating machinery. The most common side effect is nausea. I cant tell you how good it feels to have smoking behind me. Talk to your doctor about chantix. To have smoking behind me. The new Chase Ink Business unlimited card is so simple, i dont even have to think about it. So i think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. Introducing Chase Ink Business unlimited with unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase. She outsmarts me every single time. Checkmate you wanna play again . Anncr prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Paul manafort was found guilty today on eight felony counts. The jury deadlocked on the remaining ten counts. But manafort has another trial coming up just in september. We have a lot to evaluate in terms of the outcome. Today we will do it in a thoughtful manner. Thank you everyone. Former assistant u. S. Attorney and legal analyst was in the courtroom. And ken diel lainian. They both join me tonight. Drama today. What is the take away from what that jury found . The take away was that there was three tranches of charges. The tax fraud, the bank fraud. One failure to file a foreign bank report. All of the charges seem to be the same. On the bank fraud charges, they didnt want to touch anything that rick gates touched. Rick gates who is the star witness, Paul Manaforts former employee seemed to be thoroughly discredited. So the conspiracy counts on the
bank fraud, they did not convict. The bottom line is Paul Manafort is now guilty of felonies. He is facing seven to nine years in prison under the guidelines. And another trial coming up in d. C. Where the penalties are now even greater. Now facing a choice of cooperating or continuing to mount this defense. And the third option is to be if he believes the president is going to charge him. Dan, you were in the courtroom, what was it like . You know, i have sat that you a lot of Jury Verdicts and it was silent and staid and stone faced as any defendant, and the defendants wife that i have ever seen. Paul manafort made almost no expression, no response at all when he stood and listened to the Courtroom Deputy read guilty eight times. His wife didnt move or make
much reaction or show any emotion. So to that extent, it was a lot surprising. Particularly because in a partial verdict like this, you are not really sure which way it is going to go. Greater chance of an acquittal in a partial verdict than in a clean verdict. Thats interesting. I mean, you did this job, you prosecuted folks. Everyone has pleaded. What is your understanding of manaforts strategy here . My understanding of manaforts strategy is the only thing i can think of is somehow some way he is playing for a pardon. He is 69years old. And these are pretty strong charges. I know Defense Lawyers say the dha charges in the d. C. Case is not as strong. But it doesnt help a defendant to have two trials. The government gets two bites of the apple. And Paul Manafort chose to have two cases. And the only thing i can think of is it is not a posture that you want to be in if you want to cooperate. I know he is convicted now and it is possible, and i may be wrong, but i dont think it is going to happen. You know, notwithstanding the fact that some of the Defense Lawyers language today leaves that open a little bit. He is not saying we are going to appeal. He is saying we are going to evaluate our options. Some rational that the president has used in the past saying he
was treated unfairly. Two trials, the government brought two cases against him. A good man. Terrible what they have done to him today. I think at some point that became the strategy. Meanwhile, ken, The Mueller Team is full steam ahead with another big trial to prepare for just a few miles away in just a few weeks. Thats right. And that trial is going to go into different areas including the unregistered foreign lobbying that manafort did on behalf of ukraine. He allegedly tried to influence witnesses. The volume of evidence in that case is larger. And the judge is not going to be as friendly to the defense. And the jury pool may be less friendly as well. So i am in a different place than dan. Paul manafort is spending his
nights in jail right now, looking down the barrel of a long prison sentence. And it is possible that he was angling for a pardon. And if that is not the case, he may be having a wake up call at this moment. I will say this. This applies to Michael Cohen as well. As far as we can tell, Paul Manafort has been doing this stuff for years and getting away with it. Really, you are going to pinch me for this, i have been doing this for 12 years. I wonder if that makes him realize that time is up. The fbi interviewed him 2014, no prosecution. And he must have thought he was okay. And now this happens. Thank you both for your time. Could donald trump pardon Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen. That question has swirled for
months as the mueller probe. As recently as last friday, the president refused to rule out a pardon for manafort. Will you pardon Paul Manafort . I dont talk about that now. Question became much more immediate today for Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort as they both find themselves guilty of eight counts. Former Assistant Director for Counter Intelligence and fbi. And msnbc contributor jennifer rubin. We dont think he can pardon himself, but he can pardon Paul Manafort. We agree that would be constitutional. The boundary would be political. And i think what would stop him from doing that is the same reason he hasnt gotten rid of
mueller, do you think those political boundaries exist . Well, if you ask me after the election be a different answer than before the election. Remember, he is in the final months of a republican majority. For all intents and purposes, he is most likely not going to enjoy that come january, not only this congress has to think about, but the next congress he has to think about and the effect this behavior would have on the election. Open up a gusher for the republicans and they might lose the senate as well. I think there are two problems for trump. And one is the reaction that might happen either with the public or on capitol hill that he is now trying to cover something up. And the second, is he has been acting like this has nothing to do with me. Some guy i knew briefly. What is the connection to donald trump . It does sort of emesh himself
more with Paul Manafort. Before we get to the trial that is much more related to russia, that is when he is going to step forward . I dont think so. Manafort wanted trump to think about what lay ahead. And the next trial is going to be a lot about russia and ukraine. Frank, imagining to be what it would look like to see someone pardons in this circumstance, what do you think . Well, Knowing Mueller and how he operates and thinks and how his team runs, i have to think there is a prosecutorial parachute. In the form of state charges. Do not be surprised if we find out and maybe we will find out when it is necessary, that there is a package presented to state
prosecutors to handle manafort and to cohen in the event of the president pardons on federal charge. Number two, i would be angry. And thinking about whether the president s pardon powers has a limit. And if he is actually witness tampering, actually trying to witness a pardon to prevent someone from cooperating, i would be looking at every angle. Even if it is another notch in a report for articles of impeachment. It looks really bad. I also think there is a narrow window for the president to do this because we have the second trial coming up, the Foreign Agent trial is going to be ugly. This is juicy stuff. This is going to talk about manafort as a Foreign Agent and the realization is going to sink in to the American People that the guy running the campaign was
a Foreign Agent. And cohen was about to fully cooperate or maybe not, maybe mueller has everything he needs in the form of the Search Warrant or the raid on his offices. In which case the president needs to act very fast. What was the significance do you think in a broader sense. We talked about this, we talked about republicans in congress, willfully blind or worked on the president s behalf, what does today mean . It means they can no longer take the position that the president is no longer implicated in a crime. Michael cohen under oath with a lot of evidence out there said yes, he told me to go violate Campaign Finance reform. And if we are talking about the legitimacy of the election, we are not positing that he won the election because he was able to
hush up two women. We are talking about the legitimacy of the election. And in the legal sense the commission of a crime. This got a whole lot worse for republicans and for trump personally. Frank, what do you think of the pace at which mueller is running this . It is impressive. As much as everybody on other side says this is taking way too long, the reality is this number of convictions with this level of complexity, and the timing of getting the cohen plea in the day that Manafort Verdict comes in. They were staging this for this week. They knew this was a possibility. It is masterful. It is very impressive. Thank you. Thank you both. Coming up, on the same day the president is implicated in paying off an adult film actress, republicans are pushing
through his next pick for the Supreme Court justice. We will talk about that next. Come away with me barnabas but i am a simple farmer. My life is here. [telephone ring] ahoyhoy. Alexander graham bell here. No, no, my number is one, you must want two two, i say like my father before. [telephone ring] like my father before. Ahoyhoy as long as people talk too loudly on the phone, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. A single tap offerss to peace of mind. Y, uber is giving you new ways to tell loved ones youre on your way. Uber is moving in a new direction. Forward. The first survivor of alzis out there. Ase and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. Purpose of influencing the election. And he did influence the election. The payoff to Stormy Daniels came less than three weeks after the release of the access Hollywood Tape which was a low pointed for the Trump Campaign. Low pointed in polling. Yet voters did not know about the payoff and barely heard about Stormy Danielss allegations hfl the news come out against the back drop of the access Hollywood Tape a few weeks before the election, a candidate whose victory, lets recall, came down to less than 78,000 votes across three states, may well have lost. In other words, according to what was said in court, cohen was implicated in a crime that may have helped mahip become president. As though president who tapped him was not now facing a led legitimacy crisis. I talked about this on twitter. What does one have to do with the other . It has nothing to do with brett kavanaugh. He is either qualified or hes not and why does it matter that the president was implicated in a federal crime in court today . So there are several legal questions that may arise both of what we saw today and the ongoing mueller investigation. Did donald trump commit Campaign Finance crimes is that to what extent was he involved in conspiracy to defraud the United States with a foreign government, russia. The Supreme Court may be asked to determine whether or not you can subpoena for a grand jury testimony a sitting president. They have never decide that had before. Right now, giuliani thinks a conversation with mueller is a
perjury trap. That means the president could go straight to the Supreme Court. The other is whether there could be an indictment of a sitting president. The only thing that will be legally binding is what the Supreme Court decides. To have a sitting president facing these types of legal challenges that have not been decide by the Supreme Court, deciding who gets to sit on that court and potentially make those decisions seems the me to be in and of itself requires slowing this process down and seeing how this plays out. What do you think . I agree. I dont see it as an iffy question. Theres nothing in the constitution whatsoever that supports the idea that a president cannot be indicted. Is the argument is being made, it is policy, not law. The argument is that it distracts the president from his duties. Well, the constitution allows impeachment. Thats pretty distracting. I think it is clear this is a nonsense idea. The president if he commits a crime can be indicted. Im convinced of that. So the Kavanaugh Decision now is a really big issue. This is not about roe v. Wade, all the other things that come in. I think i think really critical to the Kavanaugh Decision. The president did tout his nomination. Justice kavanaugh is doing great. How do you vote against him . The democrats may find a way. He is not a justice yet. And i dont know. Central kafgt, hes a white man. And that has been the central casting for most of the court. And lets go back to merrick garland. If president obama, a duly elected sitting president , has a Supreme Court vacancy to fill and is denied even a hearing for his nominee, simply because theres going to be an election within a year, how on Gods Green Earth do Wave Conversation that says that President Trump in his current situation, that his candidate ill give you the answer. It is about will. Because they have the majority and they have the majority now. This is now happening within a few months of the midterm elections. It is not about partisan politics. It is about the rule of law in this country. Well, i still feel like we havent quite die gested what happened today. The president was implicated in a crime and i want to say, a deeply relevant crime. The crime of covering something up for his own benefit in an election he won by a narrow victory. And you just, there is something about everyone going to work tomorrow on capitol hill, well, that just strikes me as wrong. I am really bothered by people who think, well, the solution will be if democrats take the house in 2018. Well, i think they might. The fact is the republicans need to step up to the plate. The republicans have just seen that the president s lawyer said that he was ordered by the president of the United States to do an illegal act by the man who is now president. At some point, the people in congress today, the republicans, you know, not after the next election but right now need to say, wait a minute. We have constitutional
obligations and we cant follow this path. And we have if bill clinton could be taken through an Impeachment Process for perjury of justice, there is no way we can credit when i say to any republicans this shouldnt happen for donald trump. And there are many people serving in congress who voted to impeach bill clinton on precisely those items. Lindsey graham is one of those, for example. And yet Lindsey Graham suggested that what happened today is not so relevant for them for an impeachment standpoint. I think youll hear more of that. Thank you both. All right. I would be truly remiss not to tell you we have a new episode of our podcast, why is this happening, because it happens to be an indepth discussion of trump and corruption. My guest wrote the book on it. And an announcement for attorney