Transcripts For MSNBCW AM Joy 20180107

Imagination. Good morning, and welcome to am joy. Joy reid is wrapping up her appearance on memeet the press and will join us shortly. The trump show is painfully real and bolstered by his partys congressional leaders and cabinet members all who flanked the president to outline the agenda. Yet his proclamations that hes, like, really smart, underline the prepliomise of the book. What wolff described as some of the most peculiar remarks delivered by a president. I say i had an uncle who did a fantastic job in so many different ways, academically, he was an academic genius, and then they say is donald trump an intellectual . Trust me, im like a smart person. Joining me is Michelle Bernard and perry bacon, jr. , of 538. Com. Yall, i dont know where to begin. Yesterday was pretty incredible with the tweet storm the president delivered yesterday morning and then the remarks yesterday. Lets go around the horn and get your generally actions to that and what we are all dealing with now over the last 48 hours. I wanted to open up by saying its so good to be with so many stable geniuses but you cant use that term anymore. We are all self declared. Yeah, you have to deny it now. Its extraordinary that, a, he gave so much oxygen to the book. I know. If you wrote a book, as a lot of us have, the best thing in the world would be to have the president issued an order to get the book suppressed and the continuous attacks on it only made Michael Wolff more important. I think theres an underlying fact here. A lot of what Michael Wolff reports is what people thought about the president before but he added extraordinary detail here. While people might question this or that question, nobody is really questioning the underlying story of this book, and a lot of people who cover the white house have said, look, we have heard from people inside the white house all of these doubts about the president. Two things at the same time. On the unhaone hand i think the can be no more denial about who donald trump is, and republicans, as you saw from those pictures are going to be pushed closer to the president for this year, particularly now that hes turned on steve bannon, who was their adversary. Michelle . I know we are comparing him to frato. He compares 45 to nero, and he talked at the end of the reign as emberer of rome, he was voted as public enemy number one. What i was thinking is what else has to happen for the u. S. Senate to finally act . The guy is very clearly unhinged, whether we look if you go back to 2009 with the tweets that began, you know, i have never seen a thin person who drinks diet coke to thin going on to saying that barack obama was born in kenya to last week talking about the size of his button. We clearly have somebody who is destroying the country and the senate seems to be fine with it, at least so far. And before i get to you to get your reaction, something that michelle said about the senate, and i broaden that to the congressional leadership. Lets take a look at what the congressional leadership had to say at camp david yesterday. Mr. President i want to thank you for inviting us all up. We had a great Planning Session for 2018. Mr. President trump, i want to thank you for inviting us here to camp david. I am particularly pleased with the fact that we had an extremely productive conversation with the president and his team. Achieving extraordinary results. Given that, it doesnt look like congressional leadership will move in the way michelle would like them to. Just watching donald trump in the video you showed at the beginning and talking about his successes, and nobody doubts that donald trump has been successful, and he ran for president and won, but the question is does he have the capacity for the job. The secretary of state reportedly called him a moron. Remember bob corker questioned his capacity. We know republicans are saying these things, and then the republicans you saw him praising him in private have the same doubts. Will they change their views on trump . No, after the tax cut decide to be closer to him. But the reality is Michael Wolffs book portrayed things everybody already knew, he may be a smart person but does not know anything about north korea, texas or health care. I think its time to bring in our fourth panelist, the great joy reid. Hes done a great job in your presence. Moms back. Michelle said something as you were running in, and that is what is it going to take the senate or congress to move on a president that doesnt seem capable of operating the oval office in the way that we have seen his 44 predecessors do . Democratic control. I think full stop. The only thing that will change the dynamic here is if democrats come into control, one or both houses of congress, and the Michael Wolff book makes it clear, you have the Mitch Mcconnell in front of him, and if he has cognitive decline going on and if he is child like, thats the perfect opportunity if you are a republican and they have an agenda and they can use the president to get what they want, and i think the republicans are going to stick to that unless they lose control of one or both of the houses. One thing in the Michael Wolff book as a possibility is the 25th amendment, and so lets take a listen to in the control room what Michael Wolff said on meet the press on the 25th amendment. This is 25th amendment kind of stuff. This is . Did anybody say that in the west wing to you . All the time. The 25th amendment. They would bring up the 25th amendment . They would say we are in the mid period, we are not at a 25th amendment level yet. Or northeaor they would thats alarming. This is alarming in every way. This went on, okay this is a little 25th amendment. 25th amendment is a concept that is alive er day in the white house. Joy, how realistic is the 25th amendment in terms of dealing with this president . I dont think its very realistic at all . I agree. I dont think its realistic at all. One of the things that comes through in the Michael Wolff book is the cynicism around donald trump, and they make the calculation that hes a little crazy but we can work with, and hes completely crazy but i can survive it and come out with a career for myself afterwards and they have made the deeply cynical calculations that allowed them to get through the presidency no matter how much it melts down. I dont have congress in any member of the cabinet to come forward and say we are going to baker act this president , and the Part Congress would have to play, they are not going to to do it. The only thing the pheframerica people can do if they feel Donald Trumps presidency is destabilizing and dangerous, and the voters then need to give the other Party Control of congress, because this party, the Republican Party that you see there has decided they will ride with donald trump to the bitter end and maybe to the end of us all. I agree that its impossible to see anything like the number of people in that cabinet, and perhaps even one who is prepared to invoke the 25th amendment, and theres all of this serious talk, not just from people who from the beginning hated donald trump, but a lot of people who are not necessarily antitrump but are really worried about his capacity. You know, in addition to the wolff book, he had two pieces about susan glasser, or his Foreign Policy in general that raised serious questions along the same lines about his competence and what hes doing to us abroad. I find it really hard to believe that there will not be one person in the cabinet that will not come forward. The question is how much lower is he going to take the country and how much real damage has to be done before one member of this cabinet, or at least the senate will come forward and say we cannot tolerate this any longer . Will it take pushing the button and starting a war with north korea . We have not reached the bottom yet and the bottom is going to happen and somebody is going to have to step up and that day is coming soon. The big tax cut question was, did the Republican Party get closer and latch on or move away from him, and you can tell in the last few days the way Lindsay Graham has behaved and they said lets investigate the investigation, and the cabinet is getting closer. Robert mueller is getting closer, too. We are talking about Money Laundering and conspiracy theories, connections with members of russia. Trump earlier this week applauded the people of iran for fighting back against their leadership, but at the same time he still, you know, has nothing but wonderful things to say about vladimir putin. And in all the bannon quotes, if they get him on Money Laundering, and thats important, and a lot of people already assumed that. And republicans understand the weaker donald trump is and the more vulnerable he is by mueller, the more they can get, and the more he spends time tweeting about books, the more they can get. I think what you are seeing is having to confront the deep cynicism of the Republican Party here, because i dont see a hero, i dont think there will be any, none. I have to ask you quickly, lets say President Trump does find a way to fire mueller. Does that end the investigation . No. Does that send the story . It does not. One of the things that even Lindsay Graham said who was on meet the press was calling Christopher Steele a potential criminal, and thats a former intelligent agent from the close ally, and but what Lindsay Graham and others decent understand, and maybe john mccain still understands this, if you fire mueller that does not end the investigation, and the investigation is not called the Mueller Investigation because hes the only one investigating, theres a full Team Investigating donald trump plus one in new york, and trump cannot stop the investigation into his finances or potential collaboration with russia by firing mueller. Sorry to cut you off on your own show. We have to go on a commercial break. Up next, joy gets her show back and 425 days after the 2016 election, donald trump is still going after Hillary Clinton. Much more am joy, next. When heartburn hits. Fight back fast with tums smoothies. It starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. And neutralizes stomach acid at the source. Tum tum tum tum. Smoothies. Only from tums theres been no collusion between us and the russians. Now, there has been collusion between Hillary Clinton, the dnc and the russians. Unfortunately, you people dont cover that very much. The only collusion is between hillary and the russians and the dnc and the russians. They all look at the shiny thing over there strategy may not be working for donald trump. Congressional republicans are trying to resurrect the nonscandal around kwraouranium and trump is the first to talk about her emails. Johnson and ej are still with me, and joining the table, you two, thank you for being here. Donald trump yesterday was asked whether or not he would personally be willing to testify in front of mueller. Lets listen to his answer. If Robert Mueller asked you to speak to a committee would you be willing to do that. So you understand, there has been no collusion, no crime, and in theory everybody tells me im not under investigation, maybe hillary is, but im not. There has been no collusion, there has been no crime. Buried in the word salad is maybe hillary is. Donald trump has been encouraging the Justice Department to actively investigate him. Its the first time i have heard donald trump say theres no collusion. Yeah, thats unusual. No, thats his standard line to repeat. And what you said, but her emails, thats his response when Everything Else fails. I think theres Something Else going on here and that is donald trump gets particularly crazy when something bad is going to happen, when another shoe is about to drop. Theres some shoe out there ready to drop, and what he does in those situations is he goes nuts about Hillary Clinton, a private citizen who has been inoffensive to him for the last year and change. I think that indicates theres something to come that has nothing to do with hillary. Natasha, any reporting on that . Is there any indication that trump world is increasingly concerned something new is coming down the pike because they are interested in Hillary Clinton again as of late . It doesnt make much sense to me why donald trump keeps saying theres no collusion when the mueller case is much stronger than the collusion case. Robert mueller, its a big conspiracy charge to, you know, accuse somebody of colluding with a foreign power but the obstruction case is more cut and dry. As we saw from the New York Times article published last week where donald trump really blew up at Jeff Sessions when he heard he was going to recuse himself, when Jeff Sessions asked an aide to go to capitol hill and search for dirt on james comey, all of these things, and the misleading statement he crafted on air force one about the trump tower meeting and all of these are contributing to bob muellers case that perhaps he did have different intent when he fired james comey, and so its really an indication of how he does not take the obstruction case seriously and thats what could be the most dangerous thing to his presidency. Its an interesting thing donald trump seems to feel sorry for Hillary Clinton sometimes, ignoring her and saying she has been through a enough, and it was a tough race but she lost, and then becoming reobsessed with her every time he, himself, is in trouble. And then we find out jonathan for months the fbi is reinvestigating the clinton foundation. His attorney general is doing the dirty work to potentially lock her up on behalf of donald trump. I remember a while back with President Trump demanded the Justice Department look at Hillary Clintons emails. He vacillates between look at her and dont look at her, but the Justice Department is. On the podcast i asked her about the president s fixation with her, and she said whenever there is bad news for President Trump in the russia investigation he always finds three people or things to attack, president obama, me, meaning her, Hillary Clinton, and africanamericans. Its so true. To danas point, when the president loses his mind on twitter or in press conferences or when hes talking to the press, because he doesnt do press conferences, usually its Hillary Clinton he goes after. It makes no sense. Dude, you are president of the United States. You won. Let it go. Yeah. I think theres a political aspect of this and a more tphau have nefarious aspect. Donald trump has never been able to build himself up, without having somebody to put down, and Hillary Clinton was the goto person when obama was heading out of office and he knows that will appeal to part of his d dwindling base. The nefarious part is instructing a part of government to go after his prior opponent. If they actually have brandnew evidence to justify this, that would be one thing, but even if they have something, its already tainted by the fact that the president of the United States gave kind of a order over twitter or through his own commentary, go after my opponent. Theres something wrong with that in american democrat. And they obeyed the order. What i find fascinating about the trump and Hillary Clinton fast nation, trump doesnt know a lot of people in washington and among the few people that he does know is the clintons. He has known the clintons for white a while, and he has a weird love hate relationship with them. Maybe its the familiarity with them that breeds his obsession. Or maybe its the greatest hit sort of thing, im in a difficult spot now and down to 35 , and that went so well during the campaign and lets go back and do that again, and maybe i can attack marco rubio and ted cruz. Its applause lines. Hillary clinton is the biggest applause line for the Republican Party and for President Trump. When he does those rallies, he mentions her names and out comes the chants, lock her up, and he takes it as reinforcement, let me keep talking about her. Republicans in congress now seeming to go and back this up, to have Lindsay Graham and Chuck Grassley make a criminal referral of the british spy that put together the dossier, this is their first criminal referral and its about somebody that was investigating, not the russian collusion, and then look at nuness activity. Lindsay graham was back on meet the press this morning characterizing Christopher Steele as a criminal, and we are talking about senators who have been tough on the russian investigation, including Lindsay Graham. What do republicans make of their colleagues like graham switching the russia investigation focus to fusion gps and potentially shift the investigative focus to Hillary Clinton . Theres a lot of confusion among fellow republicans and democrats especially who say they were not consulted before the criminal referral was made about steel. I was trying to ask democrats if they had a response and if they were going to come out with anything that would counter the referral, and nobody knew it was happening. This is a shocking turn of events that even people close to fusion gps or steele were not expecting at all, and they were not expecting the first criminal referral in the russia investigation would be against somebody that had intelligence he gave to the fbi, he handed to john mccain, who then gave it to the fbi himself. This is just really seen as an attempt to muddy the waters because theres a sense Robert Mueller is getting close to trumps inner circle as he pursues the russia investigation. Chris steele, he gave the information to the fbi as soon as he learned it and you cannot say the same thing about the trump campaign, and theres an effort to show the trump was doing Opposition Research by meeting with the russians, and what steele did was gather from russian sources that he gained there, and the difference is that Christopher Steele bypassed fusion gps entirely, and now the question is why didnt the trump do the same thing . I would love to be a fly on the wall between john mccain and Lindsay Graham about this. Its a very strange turn of events. Up next, the lovefest for the stable genius continues. More on that after the break. At ally, we offer lowcost trades and highyield savings. But if thats not enough, we offer innovative investing tools to prepare you for the future. Looks like you hooked it. And if thats not enough, well help your kid prepare for the future. Dont hook it kid. And if thats still not enough, well help your kids kid prepare for the future. Looks like he hooked it. Well do anything. Takes after his grandad. Seriously anything, to help you invest for the future. Ally. Do it right. Coming up on am joy, one of Donald Trumps biggest fans. White house adviser, Steven Miller, plays to an audience of one. You do not want to miss this. Get your coffee. A lot of water. Medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. Dry mouth can cause increased cavities, bad breath, oral irritation. I like to recommend biotene. Biotene has a full array of products that replenishes the moisture in your mouth. Biotene definitely works. It makes patients so much happier. [heartbeat] the book is best understood as a work of very poorly written fiction. I will also say the author is a garbage author of a garbage book. The portrayal of the president in the book is so contrary to reality and to the experience of those that work with him and to my own experiences of spending the last two years with him, i saw a man that was politically a genius. Performing for an audience of one. Back with me is the panel. So lets play a little bit of this interview that is rocketing around the twitters. People are really talking about it. Lets listen to this is cut three for my producers. A selfmade billionaire, and he i am sure he is happy you said that. You can be condescending, and you can its a schneid remark, and you think he is watching and hes happy. Your network, its part of your mo, and i have no idea why you are attacking me. So he was watching because trump tweeted at that interview, jake tapper, fake cnn just got destroyed in the interview. He got destroyed. Sounds like a regular twitter troll. Isnt it great how the more they deny the book their antics confirm everything in the book. And one of the things about the former deputy staff is like trying to figure out does what a child wants . Does he want the cookie . And thats what he wanted, Steven Miller to go out there and do what he did even if it makes the situation worse because it felt good for him. Hes not thinking about what is happening tomorrow and five minutes from now, its i want this now. Heres one more from Steven Miller. This is 25th amendment kind of stuff. This is the 25th amendment . Yes, they would say were sort of in the mid thats not him, thats Michael Wolff. Thats good, too. There would be a pwraebreaki News Development and in 20 minutes he would dictate ten paragraphs of new material to address that event and deliver flawlessly in front of an audience of 10,000 people. Thats worship. Before i get to what he actually just said, which borders on insanity, his affect are you noticing it affect with the president , and that with what he just jabbered on cnn, the argument for the 25th amendment is dead on. If Steven Miller is the best of the best this administration has and can go on cnn, and nobody from the white house goes on any of the sunday shows without the white houses permission, we are in a very sorry state of affairs. Donald trump, i think of him of being like a child, and ma tkpwaou taou, nobody would say hes not master field, and it sounds like shakespeare theres a way you have to deal to be serious a authoritarian personality, they must be praised and the best, and he performs the flunky of the dictator role. On one hand, go after any independent media that might ask questions about you. Thats the attack on jake tapper and cnn and anybody else that questions him is what an oug autocratic leader does, and then as you say, the autocratic leader demands worship and how brilliant he is. Soon we will learn donald trump is a brilliant cellost. Theres something very bizarre about one is alarming and the other is just really bizarre. Yeah, hes the sun king. Lets cut two for our producers, and this is jake tapper going after the way miller is talking. I think i wasted enough of my viewers time you know who i care about . Jonathan, you are done. Done. Good for jake for doing that. To e. J. s point, this sort of worship of President Trump, this whole audience of one, Steven Miller and people from the administration go on television and they are not talking to the American People, and they are not saying things to bolster the democracy and defend the administration in terms of what its trying to do in terms of pushing or advancing american ideals at home or abroad, they are talking to the president because they know the president is listening. You read the tweet that the president tweeted out. It was proof. The president was watching Steven Miller. Think about that. You have the authoritarian aspects of this, but you have people and you have a president who desperately needs praise, needs to be validated by the people who work for him, and all the while the American People from journalists, god bless us, for standing up to that kind of treatment from somebody in the administration, and other people who are watching and thinking what is going on with the white house, with the administration . I bet you he has a team in the west wing that doesnt explain why everybody in the Congress Look at the clips from camp david, they are all saying what a fabulous year we had from the president , or hatch on the lawn saying the greatest president ever. If they are motivated by ego, why does not one of them care about what history will say about them . Paul ryan, he says exquisite leadership. Theres a bowing down and treating him as the sun king. Its a good point. Its not the people that just work for him but in the coequal branch of government down the way, its members of congress. Can you explain it . Is it like anything you have seen before in washington . We have never seen anything like trump before. The republicans, on the one side as you said and others said earlier, they made a policy bet. He is doing all this regulation to protect workers and civil rights, and thats ultratkeugsal republican stuff. On the other side, theres still a fear that trumps base is shrinking, and theres a lot of evidence of that in the polls, but within the Republican Party he still has a substantial majority of republicans. A lot of those folks have reason to fear a republican primary, not from the bannonites, but from people who support trump if they go after trump, people like charlie dent have left, and people like jeff flake left, and corker, left there are no bannonites, but there are none, they are all trumpists. And one thing that comes into mind, where is the statesmen . There are none. In the old days it was Lindsay Graham and grassley and those standing there, but they are willing to throw american democracy as we have known it and as the world has known it under the bus for short term political gain. Its not only people that he could have power over. When you saw the man fourth in line to the protest, orrin hatch, eventually bowing and scraping at his age, at his level of achievement and accomplishment, just in terms of his political longevity, bowing and scraping before donald trump, i cant understand it. He has no reason to since hes retiring. Its baffling. The best defense i could get for the cow towing, he does have that button, so they are like, lets tiptoe around and not get him more excited. Heres the book again for donald trump, you know, feel free to tweet at me, because it has turned out for Michael Wolff and its effective in helping your book sales, and he does describe here a sense of a need to manage him, a sense of a need to manage his rage. If you dont give him praise, if you dont give him love and the things that fill that deep hole inside of him, you dont know what hes going to do . Nobody knows what hes going to do, but they also know at the same time they cant control him. After everything that has happened, from his sentiments that he expressed after charlottesville to the complete inaction on what is happening with the up rising in iran and the fact that we know that all of the people who they have had 600 people arrested already and they are going to start killing people and he is tweeting about nonsense. So the question is, how much longer do you stay . If you are jewish and you here the comments that come from the president despite the fact that his daughter and soninlaw are jewish, how much longer do you stay in that administration . I dont know. I dont see any heroes coming. This is always fun to hangout with you guys. Coming up, buttonhappy donald, takes credit for talks between north and south korea. Diplomacy really is his strong suit. Stay with us. When youve got no plans but with your comfy pants, grab a Marie Callenders roasted turkey stuffing. With mashed potatoes and made from scratch gravy. Spoiler alert, things are about to get good. Because me time calls for Marie Callenders. It was always our singular focus. To do whatever it takes, use every possible resource. To fight cancer. And never lose sight of the patients were fighting for. Our Cancer Treatment specialists share the same vision. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. And these are the specialists were proud to call our own. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com Appointments Available now. Upeace of mind. S we had a power outage for five days total. We lost a lot of food. We actually filed a claim with usaa to replace that spoiled food. And we really appreciated that were the webber family and we are usaa members for life. A lot of people have said a lot of people have written that without my rhetoric and without my tough stance, and its not just a stance. I mean, this is this is what has to be done, if it has to be done, that they wouldnt be talking about olympics. Right now theyre talking olympics. Its a start. Its a big start. If i werent involved, they wouldnt be talking about olympics right now, theyd be doing no talking or it would be much more serious. Donald trump in typical fashion is taking sole credit for the first diplomatic talks between north and south korea for the past two years. But, no, trump claims it was his tough talk and firm declaration of might against north korea. Like his tweet earlier this week bragging about how much bigger and more powerful his Nuclear Button is than kim jonguns. Joining me to discuss is jim scionscini. Great to talk to you in person. Donald trumps taking credit for the talks between north and south korea, how much credence do you put into that . One of the benefits of having a president who doesnt know that much about National Security is they can flip on a dime. He was denouncing talks. Nikki haley said we dont need a band aid. Were not going to talk to them unless they agree to eliminate their weapons. The president is praising the talks and taking credit for them. This is actually a good thing. You want him saying this rather than i have a bigger button than you and i can push it and i can destroy your country with fire and fury. The name of that book comes from the north korea quote. Yes. This is a good thing. We hope he stays on this theme for just a little while longer. So lets talk about the country that does seem to have influence over them and that is china . China is, of course, the one that can get north korea to come to the table and talk because they have the most economic leverage over them. And they dont want a Nuclear North Korea destabilizing their border. The sanctions have played a role. The president is right about that. Pressure has played a role but i would credit china for pushing north korea to the table. I would credit the south korean president , president moon, for being willing to take this and for acting so quickly this week. We had the north korean president on monday say hes willing to talk. On tuesday the south korean president accepted it. We have talks set up, we have a hotline that hasnt been used in years operating. We have the North Koreans coming to the olympics. We have a pause, a deescalation making the risk of war less likely at least this week. I want to talk about the olympics. Thats important. You mentioned the fact and im so glad you said that, ive been meaning to try to say it, fire and fury the title of Michael Wolffs book talking about north korea, do those kinds of threats call taunting and calling kim jongun little rocket man, does that kind of bizarre behavior on the part of the american president sort of in a way in a sense encourage north korea to talk to south korea because they think our country may be insaid so they should turn towards south korea . Not exactly. The intelligence agencies warned him not to do this, not to personally insult kim jongun and not to talk to him in these ways. It has the opposite effect. It pushes you to take stronger actions. It pushes the North Koreans to test more, be more resolute. We cant talk to these people, theyre the crazy ones. But pressure overall, the risk of war overall, yes. That is a factor. Prer o pressure cannot comply. If you give them an off ramp. Face saving. Then you might be able to deescalate and pause the tests. How much threat how much threat are the olympics under . I mean, is it its a little nerve racking that theyre going to be in south korea . It is. This is a problem for the South Koreans and south korean president. Tourism is down and bookings are down. Next month, its in february. Going to south korea. These talks are very good for them. With these talks underway if you can continue them it looks like well have a u. S. Truce. The u. S. Is pausing the military exercises. This is a big deal. The South Koreans wanted the u. S. To stop them. Just this week the u. S. Agreed to stop them, pause them. This creates a climate of at least some temporary peace where you can encourage talks and see if theres some way to walk us back from the nuclear brink. Maybe jim mattis is exercising some help here. Up next, how the right wing media is reacting to the hottest book in the world right now, this one, fire and fury. More am joy after the break. Dry mouth has been a problem for me. I just drank tons of water all the time, it was never enough. My dentist suggested biotene. My mouth felt more lubricated. I use the biotene rinse and then i use the spray. Biotene did make a difference. [heartbeat] trust 1 doctor recommended dulcolax. Use dulcolax tablets for gentle dependable relief. Suppositories for relief in minutes. And dulcoease for comfortable relief of hard stools. Dulcolax. Designed for dependable relief. Its pretty obvious that this book is filled with falsehoods and outandout lies. This is obviously a hit job on the president , but one that is filled with lies and we believe that the future will prove our side of that case. You need to know that this guy who wrote this book, and these are accusations, not from steve but in a book by Michael Wolff, whos a sleaze bag. The right wing media found themselves in a bit of a prickly position. On the one hand, you are poli political news media. You cant ignore the biggest news of the week. On the other hand, you have become what many consider de facto state runnemede yeah having pledged an affinity to trump that puts the brightest shine on the tarnished presidency. What to do . What to do . Well, attack mode like you just heard from guests on fox news. Then theres shaun hannitys approach. Say Hillary Clintons name so many times and enough times that hopefully no one will notice that youre ig new york donald trump. Hillary clinton. Hillary clinton. Clinton. Clintons private email server. Hillary. Or you can go with the Tucker Carlson approach and bemoan your retched status as a persecuted majority. Every time i pull up buzz feed, huffington post, theres a piece about white people are a scourge on america. Yeah, he cant even read the internet without pulling up some terrible thing. However, trumps media advocates had no such ambivalence about whose side to take on the breakup between trump and one time chief strategist steve bannon after bannon attacked trump and his family in the book. I posted a blog to news max and i discussed steve bannon and the president s relationship and why i think steve actually is somewhat delusional with some of these claims hes been making, hallie. First of all, bannon has a sense of selfimportance. If steve said that he should take it back because theres nobody less treasonous than don jr. Most of the leaking that was coming out of the Trump White House was steve bannon. Bannon stabbed the president and america in the back. It is not, it is not a fight. Jesus take the wheel. Joining us is donovan kapar, jennifer rubin, eric bullard and gabe sherman. Oh, jennifer, you know, watching it we were all literally laughing watching Newt Gingrich. You can roll back the table saying steve guru and steve bannon must repent or die. Its amazing watching them do the dance. It is. Also when you reduced to bringing in Newt Gingrich as a character witness, i think youve hit rock bottom. I think these people are just scrambling. Whats of course obvious to everyone who hasnt drunk the koolaid. This isnt just steve bannon. He had 200 sources. Are they all completely mentally disabled. Steve bannon, false moustache. Steve bannon with fake glasses. This is what they do, they come up with some little line. They explo it it it. Whats interesting, nobody else is disputing the specific anecdotes, the specific items. Thats a telltale sign. Right. Nobody has disputed in the book, just that the people are bad. When were talking about the overall arc of the story, where are the people who are quoted in this book who are talked to . We all know who was talked to in this book but no one has come out and given a full throated, this is a complete lie and its astounding to me. In this book we are witnessing two completely different worlds, from the Steven Miller interview with jake tapper where hes talking to only one person, donald trump, and the rest of the Community Watching like were all in the front seat of a roller coaster without a lap bar thinking, what the hell is happening here. How are we in this position in 2018, the United States of america where we are openly discussing from the timefully t fretfully the presidency. The other thing thats happening, im holding the talking points. Brian stelter to the ahold of the talking points to those going on tv. Theyre asking people to attack Michael Wolff. You heard this very recently on this show. He states he settled on a version of events i believe to be true. There is a set of talking points that theyre sending people out to say. Theyre also attacking access journalism. I know youve been tweeting about this. Thats a little bit ironic. Thats the way the game borings. He played it better. If hes such a disreputable character, why was he on the west wing couch interviewing people . They confirm the complete incompetence and they confirm the book where this is kind of a hoax of a presidency. Its a hoax of an administration. Yeah, so he did play the access game and when he was done, he decided, i dont need anybe more acce access. Im going to pull back the curtain. This administration is careening out of control every day of the year. One of the many quotes he had was of all the people he talked to, 100 thought trump was not qualified to be president. Im sorry, that is not the story we were told for most of 2017. Its interesting, gabe, because just on meet the press Michael Wolff said he wrote a piece a year ago saying the media had a reflexive attitude and that he went into this with that narrative. He said those journalists wrote that without this experience. Coming out of that he found this was true but worse. One of the other aspects, sam nunberg admitted that he did say what was said in the book calling donald trump an idiot but one of the ways he saw that access happening was because of bannon and roger ales. The fact that they trusted him, Michael Wolff, and let him in. Its a weird deal between bannon, mourdock and ales. Bannon mahated Rupert Mourdock. Mourdock had Donald Trumps ear. P it was one of the key elements of Donald Trumps appeal. Trump would brag that mourdock was always calling him. Mourdock would complain he couldnt get trump on the phone. How much of this book happened in part because of the growing feud because of Rupert Mourdock and roger ales . Thats part of it, joy. Michael wolff around the time he was working on this book about donald trump was working on a book about roger ales that people tell me was a book 2456s going to rehabilitate ales. Ales thought mourdock stabbed him in the back. That does not comport with all of my reporting that say ales committed serial sexual harass am. Wolff developed this relationship with ales because he liked how wolffs book took down Rupert Mourdock. He parlayed that and transitioned that into a relationship with steve bannon and that appears to be one of the avenues which he entered the white house. Can you confirm, theres a story in the book that at a certain point roger ales called up steve bannon and asked if he would be down about creating a new network, trump tv, that would include bill oreilly and Shawn Hannity and all of them moving over to basically a new fox news. My reporting indicates that roger ales did not think that donald trump was going to win the election and very late in the president ial campaign he spoke with steve bannon about getting together to start a new right wing tv network, breitbart tv or whatever. Ales like many other people was shocked to find out that donald trump had won the presidency and actually did not need to go start a tv network because fox news would play that role for him. Clearly. Eric, they have. Your former media outfit has chronicled the way that Donald Trumps tweets perfectly match whats happening on fox friends. He watched the Steven Miller episode this morning and live tweeted his reaction to it. Sticking with donald trump is a longterm Business Strategy because if fox news is going to be a fox news, there wont be a breitbart counterweight. Yeah, i think for most of the conservative media trump is the only game in town. They see that with their clicks and they see that with their ratings. This is getting very complicated. Theyre dancing as fast as they can over at fox news because their universe is shrinking. The number of people they can have on and not talk about things that trump is doing wrong is shrinking and shrinking. People talk about fox news as conservative, thats long gone. Bannon talking about that russian meeting being treasonous, that obliterated 400 hours of fox news reporting. He is it absolutely gutting the main talking point they have about trump. So its becoming very complicated. People are having to make choices. All of this is because it has nothing to do with news, nothing to do with journalism. These are individual super pacs and they have to figure out which horse theyre going to ride. I think most of them are going to stick with trump as long as hes viable. Jennifer, we were talking during the break a little bit about this. Its one thing about the trumpian base to lock themselves into a fox news bubble and only consume news about Hillary Clinton as if shes president and being impeached. Its another thing if you see people like Lindsey Graham be able to enter that bubble, too. This morning on meet the press he made a firm pivot from talking about and acknowledging russian interference happened to going hard after Christopher Steele. Our former mi6 agent as a virtual criminal and using the levers of government to pursue fake investigations against trumps enemies. How did this break out of the bubble . Right. Think about this for a minute. Lindsey grahams longtime ally and friend, john mccain, was the one who got the dossier from steele, did the patriotic right thing, turned it over to the fbi. Weve gotten so far down the road, that his pal, one of the famous three a me go gees, turns around and tries to make Christopher Steele into a criminal, as you say. You have to ask why. Is this because he fears a primary ahead in 2020 . Is this because he is so desperate to become secretary of state he can almost taste it . But someone like Lindsey Graham for him to do a 180 is really remarkable. And to eric and gabes point, there are socalled respectable conservative media. They are completely trapped because their audience is shrinking. Theyre embarrassed to do this. What they do is they criticize people like me and jonathan and others who are criticizing trump. Right. So thats their way of wink, wink, nod, nod to their own base by criticizing the critics. They dont have to do the fox routine, but how is this working in the long run . Are these people kind of survive . Is there generation after generation of this sort of viewer out there . Thats their bet. I think its probably a poor bet. Look at the demographics. Breitbarts audience is younger. If fox news were to fall off and not be as far right trump, that that audience would migrate to breitbart. One of our audience viewers was making a point, what about the generals . Why havent people like john kelly, if you had a book that said you were mentally unstable, you would put your chief of staff out, john kelly, to put them on a sunday show rather than Steven Miller. What do you make of the fact that they didnt do that . Thats actually a very good question. Our viewers. Where is chief of staff kelly doing the full begiginsburg, mi goi meaning going on all of the sunday shows. There has been no effective credible push back on this book. Putting john kelly out there remember when chief of staff kelly went out there, he was all over the place with that. That was serious. In the death of la david johnson. He was the blast shield for the president. Here we have the mental capacity of the president of the United States is called into question in this book that explodes what people have been talking about since the beginning of the Trump Presidency and yet he is nowhere to be found. No serious person within that administration is on television. Gabe, i also am very curious about mourdock world. In the book theyre described as liberals. I dont know if thats true. It is sort of fascinating that the people that own fox news, that world has been a little bit silent as well. Yeah. This morning we should point out that mourdock owned New York Post had a very tongue in cheek cover making fun of donald trump in his claim yesterday that he is some sort of genius. I think theres clearly sign of wall street journal editorial page, another mourdock organ, has not been friendly to trump. There are cracks in that facade, the sort of base of trump world and mourdock world is fox news. Thats the only base of support. Outside of that you do see some deviation. We know that in private, this echos my own reporting as well, Rupert Mourdock thinks trump is a moron. He doesnt have respect for him. He thinks hes a buffoon. This was a programming decision to make fox news pro trump. Not out of any pro loyalty, pure business zpl we know from the book that donald trump absolutely worships Rupert Mourdock as one of the people he wants to be so its fascinating. Jonathan, jennifer, eric will be back. Gabe sherman, thank you very much. Up next, with the gop tax plan for the very rich in the books, they may try to change the constitution next. Great. Hold on to your hats, america. Stay with us. Your joints. Or your digestion. So why wouldnt you take something for the most important part of you. Your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain Health Supplement in drug stores nationwide. Prevagen. The name to remember. From a right or center point of view, 2017 was the most consequential year in the many years that ive been here in congress, and then topping it off with the most consequential boost to our economy through this tax reform bill was an astonishing year. It is astonishing that people once considered deficit hawks are singing the praises of the new tax law, which is expected to drive up the deficit by 1 trillion or more. Why . Well, as we have pointed out before on this show, republicans could use a ballooning deficit as an excuse to gutt social programs. There may be another reason. As a Duke University historian recently suggested, ceilisailse case for a Constitutional Convention. The big draw say balanced Budget Amendment. Joining me now is Robert Greenstein, president on the budget policy and theresa tomlinson. Robert, i want to start with you first. Republicans have very much said that they want there to be a balanced Budget Amendment. And that they are willing to use the a Constitutional Convention to get it because theyve been unsuccessfully getting it before. I want you to listen to tom coburn talking about that issue in his own way. We think there all the to be fiscal responsibility on the federal governments part. The average millennial is on the hook for 1. 5 million over the next 50 years. We think the scope and jurisdiction of the federal government ought to be what was intended to be by our founders, which is a limited role but very specific and very powerful and then what is not specifically spelled out for the federal government, left to the states as it should be. Thats a longtime view of republicans. A republican might consider that perfectly reasonable. What would be the implications if republicans were able to get through a balanced buchblg gedg amendment to the constitution. It would be severe for the economy and jobs and for programs like social security, medicare and medicaid. Heres why. When the economy weakens, if we near or enter a recession, Business Activity falls, right . Businesses spend less. They layoff people. Theres less business and consumer spending. Tax revenues decline as a result. More people get things like Unemployment Insurance. The fact that at least tax revenues decline and more people get Unemployment Insurance helps. It leaves more money in peoples pockets and business coiffeurs to invest otherwise the economy shrinks even more. Now if you have a balanced Budget Amendment, you cant do that. As revenues contract when the economy weakens, you have to cut things like Unemployment Insurance, cut things like infrastructure in order to keep budget balance. That makes the recession much deeper. You dont have to take my word for it. Macro economic advisers, a leading mainstream firm, republicans and democrats use, examined what would have happened in 2012 if a balanced budget requirement was in effect and enforced. The answer, the Unemployment Rate would have jumped to 18 . 15 million more americans would have lost their jobs and in a Macro Economic advisers conclusion, the effects on the economy would have been catastrophic. This is why all economists, conservative as well as progressive, have long said one of the worst things you can do is write a balanced budget requirement into the constitution. States have them. Why can states get away with having balanced budget requirements and it not destroy them . States are required to balance their operating budgets, not their total budgets. States borrow for roads, bridges, schools, many things. Think of all of the bonds at the state level. Sure. Plus the fact that states have to balance their operating budgets, even in recessions, makes it even more important for the federal government not to have to do that, otherwise you get these effects of doubling unemployment. Theres one more thing. Virtually every current proposal for a balanced budget requirement in the constitution includes as part of the proposal a very severe limit in the constitution for all time when the total amount of tax revenue the federal government can raise. Yes. A level lower than what we raised today. What it does is a constitutional balanced budget requirement of that nature effectively constitution allizes a requirement to cut social security, medicare and medicaid because otherwise you couldnt get spending long enough to fit within the revenue constraint. Its pretty frightening. As i played that tom coburn clip, mayor tomlinson, you were in that clip because you were debating it with tom coburn. Republicans have tried to get a balanced Budget Amendment through the constitution, through the congress after the gingrich revolution in 94. Theyve been unsuccessful. Now theyre turning to this. Can you just explain what that effort is about, what that effort is and how close they are to actually getting it . Sure. Well, when i first started writing and speaking about this subject it was an eccentric and wholly implausible effort and here we are on the doorstep of this actually happening. Theres two ways to amend our constitution. One is by the federal legislature proposing an amendment and the states ratifying it. Thats in article five of the constitution. Thats happened 27 times. We have 27 amendments to our existing constitution. The other way is for some 34 states to request by resolution of the congress by the state legislatures to the congress that we have a convention of states or a Constitutional Convention and so thats whats been going on here. Let me just provide a little bit of context. This is something that happens about every 70 years interestingly in our Political Landscape as a nation and in 1790 to 1830 there were the antifederal lists that filed for state conventions, Constitutional Conventions to limit the federal power. Then of course in 1861 the confederates filed a fleury of papers. And then the segregationists in 1963 started an effort of calling for Constitutional Conventions to limit federal power. Now in 2010 the tea part, mark leavine and mark mechler have begun this effort. Theyve wised up. Theyve called it the balanced Budget Amendment because that sounds great. Its a wonderful marketing mon knack kerr. It sounds like what we need to do. Do the laundry, do the dishes, balance our budget. They have gotten 28 of the 34 states they need to actually get this done. They, in my judgment, will get four more this year. I suspect this state legislative session they will get south carolina, kentucky, montana, and idaho. Then we only have two states. By that time i suspect we will have the nations attention and it will be a full battle in the states of virginia, minnesota, and maine to see if they can get two of those last remaining states to sign on. If they do, we will be having a Constitutional Convention and it will not be limited to a balanced Budget Amendment as even Justice Scalia has said and Warren Burger has said. If you open it up, all bets are off. You can amend the constitution in any way whatsoever. Good gracious. Wow. Well bring you on to talk about this more. Im sure people are not aware of it. I dont think people get it. Think about what you guys just heard. We are four states away from having this actually happen and you just heard Robert Greenstein explain what the consequences would be if it went through. Im going to have you back. Robert and theresa, thank you both very much. Thank you. Up next, this just in, a surprise mia culpa from steve bannon. Stay with us. This is frank. Sup this is franks favorite record. This is franks dog. And this is franks record shop. Frank knowns northern soul, but how to set up a limited liability company. Whats that mean . Not so much. So he turned to his friends at legalzoom. Yup they hooked me up. We helped with his llc, contracts, and some other stuff thats part of running a business. So frank can focus on the beat. You hear that . This is franks record shop. And this is where life meets legal. Coming up, steve bannon apologizes to donald trump in the wake of the new tellall book. The latest on the turmoil. I tried hard to quit smoking. But when we brought our daughter home, that was it. Now i have nicoderm cq. The nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release Technology Helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. Its the best thing that ever happened to me. Every great why needs a great how. Breitbarts steve bannon is apologizing to donald trump after providing some of the most damaging comments in the new book fire and fury. In a statement to axios, bannon calls trump a patriot and says its unwavering. Back with us is our panel. On the phone is Kurt Bardella joining me now, former consultant to breitbart. Im going to read you this story. Exclusive piece. Steve bannon is trying to make amends with the trump family providing a statement to axios that expresses his regrets to the president and praises his son, donald trump jr. Donald trump jr. Who he said is treasonous in the book is both a patriot and a good young man. He continues, my support is also unwavering for the president and his agenda and i have shown 2k5 daily in my National Radio broadcast and in my writings that donald trump was the only candidate that could have taken on and defeated the clinton apparatus. Im the only person to date to conduct a global effort to preach the, and ive lost the preach i guess the trump gospel. On and on and on. Your thoughts, curt . What does this mean that essentially steve bannon is prostating himself, throwing himself on the floor and begging for mercy . This is the ultimate humiliation for steve bannon, joy. This is someone who i have never heard him apologize or back down ever. His mantra is always to bring it on. His mantra is always to do the opposite of what you think he should do, what conventional wisdom would tell him to do. That underscores the precarious and game ending situation that steve finds himself in right now. The fact that Rebecca Mercer has pulled all of her Financial Support from them. The fact that breitbart is actively discussing kicking him out of breitbart and dismissing him. This is his last hope, the public contrition humbling before donald trump, this audience of one, that that a might be enough to save him at breitbart and lay the groundwork to rebuild his relationship with the president. Lets not forget that he has a show at sirius xm. Very contrite and quiet on the radio. There are a lot of subscribers to sirius xm who canceled their subscriptions in the wake of him being brought back in because of the White Nationalist leanings and the alt leanings of breitbart and under the mersers, lets just be clear about that. A little bit more from this axios piece because it seems also, curt, that steve bannon is going out of his way to exculpate members of the trump team from things he said that could be of interest to Robert Mueller. In addition to walking back the treasonous things about donald jr. , my comments about the meeting with russian nationals, which he called trees sen news, were from my Life Experiences stationed aboard a destroyer whose main mission was to hunt soviet submarine to my time in the pentagon when we made films against ragans war and Hillary Clintons involvement then he adds my comments were aimed at Paul Manafort, were amtd at Paul Manafort, a seasoned campaign professional with experience and knowledge of how the russians operate. He should have known they are duplicitous. These comments were not aimed at don jr. What do you make of the fact that he seems to be trying to exculpate donald trump jr. And implicate Paul Manafort . Well, theres no question that really the most damaging part of this whole book if youre steve bannon was the implication tlaurp giving credibility and credence to the Mueller Investigation, something that donald trump and this entire administration have gone to back breaking lengths to try to discredit. It was eye opening that he would use the word treasonous. This is his effort to unwind and undo all of that. It might have done him a lot more good if this had happened five days ago or four days ago. This is steve really grasping at straws trying to put everything out there to provide what he believes is probably more context to his comments to Michael Wolff hoping that gives him that stay of execution from Rebecca Mercer, from donald trump. You know, one thing weve learned about trump over time is that if you publicly humiliate yourself to ingratiate yourself, he is likely to come around again and give you that second, third or fourth chance. I think thats what steve is banking on right now. To that point about the delay. One more little bite and then ill bring the panel in. He said, i have to say everything i have to say about the ridiculous nature about the russian, quotes, collusion investigation i said on my 60 minutes interview. There was no collusion and the investigation is a witch hunt, using Donald Trumps own language. He adds that my regret in delay in the reporting of don jr. Has diverted attention from the president s accomplishments. He did say in the book on the record theyre going to crack don jr. Like an egg on national tv. Thats the way steve bannon used to talk. Very quickly, curt, can you explain to us the nature of Steve Bannons dependence on the mercers. Does he have other sources of income . Does he have other sources of financing for the things that he wants to do outside of becca mercer and her father . The mercer money was instrumental to everything he wanted to do. The recruiting of these candidates was all about having the mercers fund the campaigns and candidates that steve gave their blessing to. All of that is gone now. I think if steve had a realistic other money life line, that he would not be out there publicly humiliating himself right now by basically getting down on his knees begging for forgiveness to trump and his family. If he had other financial resources, other major backers and donors, he wouldnt need to do this right now. The fact that he is putting himself through this right now tells you this was his only money backer. Doesnt he also live in breitbarts property that he doesnt own . The socalled Breitbart Embassy on capitol hill by the Supreme Court is where he lives when hes here in d. C. On their second floor. Does he own any property of his own . You know what, i dont know. There was talk he might have some property in florida. I think at one point it was reported by joshua green that he might have different dwellings. In d. C. Thats his primary and sole base of operation is the socalled Breitbart Embassy. So he faces the possibility of eviction and unemployment essentially. In the book we were talking about donald trump frequently would ridicule steve bannon saying he looks homeless, he looks a mess. He wanted, according to mike wolffs book, that he wanted to fire him after the health care debacle. He kept him on because becca mercer wants him to say. Now what do you make of his fate . Hes in big trouble and there are three things i take away from these quotes that we have here. Steve bannon does the three things that donald trump wants and curt got to them. Trump loves praise. These comments are all in praise of the president , his agenda, trying to get the word out to the world. Trump likes to hear his own words, which you picked up on where you have bannon saying there was no collusion and the investigation was a witch hunt. That is directly out of the president s mouth. The third and most important thing, and curt got to this, it is the public humiliation of someone who has criticized him or demeaned him. Joshua green in his book delvils bargain, how steve bannon was the man behind the curtain, put in there that it was steve bannon who reinforced this idea that President Trump should never back down, should never apologize for anything yes. That hes done. Now were watching, you know, the architect or the person who reinforced that strategy backing down in the face of Political Uncertainty and financial uncertainty. Go on. What i want to say is i think one of the most important things about this statement is and correct me if im wrong, everybody else whos read it, i read it several times, theres no point at which he says that the quotes subscribed to him arent real. Thats right. He doesnt deny what he said, even on the don jr. Stuff where hes clearly trying to back up knowing that attacked member of the family was a political bit of death to him. It was based on inaccurate reporting of what he said. Very vague. Very vague. Nothing he says says this stuff wasnt true. I think its bannon coming to realize, as he probably should have realized before, that this was never bannonism, it was trumpism. Yeah. And that trump bannon cut off from trump was not only bannon being cut off from the money, as you rightfully mentioned, but its basically being cut off from the base because the base didnt vote for steve bannon. Yeah. They voted for donald trump. And finally for him this is a statement of a kind of political realism. Just the last point though, he puts that treason comment in the context of having been a naval officer and patriot in a way that reinforces yes. The especially attuned to sneaky russians. The original comment. Go ahead. Im sorry. Yes. This is the bizarre thing. It is not a retraction, its apology. Its almost meant to give fox news and breitbart something to write about other than the substance of what is in Michael Wolffs book which is so damning. The special prosecutor isnt going to look at this and say, oh, never mind, i dont want to investigate anymore. Steve bannon seems to believe that they had this meeting, that it was nefarious, and it would have been remarkable had they not brought him on. Let me investigate that. It doesnt serve the purpose of debunking Michael Wolffs book, it doesnt serve the purpose of shutting down the special prosecutor. What it does is it does turn, you know, sloppy steve into supine steve who is this is youre trending. Yeah. Listen, this is the total humiliation of someone who, as you say, didnt have an identity. It also makes it impossible for republicans to differentiate trump from all of these whackadoodle candidates steve bannon comes up with. Theres no difference other than paper training a roy moore and most of the other republican candidates. Youre on fire. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because he didnt dispute any of it, hes essentially confirmed it. So i think thats the political significance there. This is all about a human tragedy here. I mean, this guy has been dropped by his sponsor. He was a mercernary, if youll forgive that. Well done. Hes got nothing left. We thought at the beginning would he peel off some of the people from trump . What percentage of the Trump Supporters . Now we know its zero. Its zero. My panel, thank you very much. Stay right here. Well have much more on the fall of supine steve bannon when we come back. You not only want a clean feeling every day, you want your denture to be stain free. Did you know theres a specialty cleanser thats gentle enough for everyday use and cleans better than regular toothpaste . Try polident cleanser. It has a four in one cleaning system that kills ten times more odor causing bacteria than regular toothpaste, deep cleans where brushing may miss, helps remove tough stains, and maintains the original color of your dentures when used daily. For a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture, use polident every day. We know that when youre spending time with the grandkids every minute counts. And you dont have time for a cracked windshield. Thats why we show you exactly when well be there. Saving you time, so you can keep saving the world. Kids safelite repair, safelite replace were continuing our discussion about Steve Bannons abject apology this morning to donald trump and to donald trump jr. For his role in the book fire and fury. My panel is back with me. I want to also bring in msnbc contributor gabriel sherman. Gabe, youve got new reporting on bannons mea culpa. Yes, joy. You know, this has been something that bannons advisers have been imploring him for days to do, to walk back the constituents. Bannon like many ways is like donald trump, he never wants to defeat defeat or weakness. But seen a stunning amount of incoming fire. His financial benefactors, the mercer family, revoked their support and really, you know, bannon has been very isolated. So this morning he issued a statement, three sources confirmed to me he issued it because he genuinely felt bad about the way don jr. Was singled out. Bannon told people the comments in fire and fury were taken out of context. They were directed at Paul Manafort, not don jr. , and so he decided to cut bait and issue this statement to axios to try to put some distance between him and all of the blowback he has gotten from the trump camp since the publication of the book. And will the comments, im going to try to quickly find them. The comments use donald jr. s name. Its kind of hard for him to say they were directed at Paul Manafort. Do you know if bannons people are concerned the things he said about donald trump jr. Could get steve bannon called before the Mueller Investigation . I have not heard that, joy, and bannon has told people that he does not have a lawyer. Hes not worried about it. The word out of bannon world is he has nothing to hide or nothing to fear about his involvement in the mueller probe, but, again, clearly this is a, you know, pretty remarkable aboutface for bannon, because, you know, he, again, prides himself like donald trump on, you know, owning his statements and never admitting defeat. And do you know how tenable in your reporting bannons position at breitbart is right now . From what i hear, its still a fluid situation. The mercer family, who are the major investors in breitbart, they are not public people. It was a very rare thing for them for Rebecca Becca mercer to release that statement disowning bannon last week. But that said, they are deliberate people. Theyre not going to make a rash decision and fire him because of all of the public pressure. So what im hearing is that its an ongoing conversation. One business issue that has been complicated for breitbart is that a major source of their revenue is a contract that they have with sirius satellite radio. Steve bannon is a host of a daily radio show and there are some contractual issues if breitbart fired bannon they could sort of nullify that contract and that would be a source of losing a lot of money for them. So that is something that is part of these conversations, but, again, i think, you know, the idea that steve bannon is secure at breitbart, i would not want to make any presumptions hes going to be there indefinitely. And last i guess question, are there any defenders of the bannon out there . He did sort of wrap around himself a certain at least part of the farright media world that considered him to be sort of a guru politically because of his ability to sort of whisper into Donald Trumps ear. Now that he cant anymore, does he have any support out there . You know, i think thats a great question, joy. I know just judging by the coverage of the last couple of days, we havent seen it. You know, rush limbaugh, fox news, sean hannity, who has been a staunch ally and advocate, defender of steve bannon, you know, largely stayed out of this controversy and as we talked about him in our segment, you know, repeated Hillary Clintons name ad nauseam. I think bannon has found himself on an island and its a pretty lonely place to be. So i think this statement is what i was told by a person very close to him this morning, the quote, first step in an effort to try to repair the relationship with donald trump. Little rehabilitation. Gabe sherman, thank you very much. Curt bardella, how difficult do you think it was for steve bannon to come out and essentially humble himself and do you think it will work . I think it was excruciating for him. The fact that it so long for it to happen. The excerpts from wolffs book have been out for a few days. You thought if bannon wanted to go down this direction, he would have put this out after the first statement from the president just raking him through the coals. Yet he did nothing. He was largely silent. There was probably a lot of pushback from steve putting this statement and apology out there. Clearly it was a last case, worst Case Scenario play by steve, realizing his situation is so untenable that he has no allies, no defenders and, again, his own spot at his own platform was in jeopardy that he dpelt the need to have to do this. Lastly, kurt, you know, Michael Wolff said on meet the press that, indeed, its true that bannon got trump elected in terms of providing him with some sort of ideological framework. Do you think that framework is now freestanding is that bannon is no longer necessary for trump . I think one thing weve seen, trump continues to be trump, whether its immigration, daca, all kinds of policy initiatives, it wasnt bannon doing that necessarily, trump is who he is he doesnt need ban. All right, jonathan capehart, e. J. Dee i dont even know, jennifer ruber, our power panel, thank you guys very much. More a. M. Joy after the break. In 5th grade. We got married after college. And had twin boys. But then one night, a truck didnt stop. But thanks to our forester, neither did our story. And thats why well always drive a subaru. Trust 1 doctor recommended dulcolax. Use dulcolax tablets for gentle dependable relief. Suppositories for relief in minutes. And dulcoease for comfortable relief of hard stools. Dulcolax. Designed for dependable relief. Thats our show for today. A. M. Joy will be back next saturday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern. Up next, alex witt has the latest. Pretty stunning stuff you ended your show with. This turnaround. It has been a couple of days between bannon and trump. Maybe there is a changing of the tide. At least for now. Have a great show. Have a great time getting back home to new york zblrjt good day to all of you. Im alex witt here at msnbc headquarter in new york. Here is whats happening as we were saying, the dust far from settling from the tellall book which shook the white house. This morning, new reaction from the man who wrote it and President Trumps allies. I was a very excellent student. Came out, made billions and billions of dollars. I consider it a work of fiction. I dont know this man. I guess sloppy steve brought him into the white house quite a bit. I think were going to have some really great bipartisan bills. We want the wall. The wall is going to happen or were not going to have daca. Theres been no collusion, theres been no crime. Well, this hour, the ripple effects from the president s response this weekend and the implications for what he gets done in his second year in office and then the expression of regret. A new statement from steve bannon about the president and his family, plus the report about Robert Mueller looking at ivanka trumps interaction