intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin. hydro boost. from neutrogena wow, look at that beautiful shot of new york city. good morning, everyone. >> the sup n is actually coming out. >> have you ever seep the sun before? not on the east coast. it's wednesday, may 25th. welcome to senior joe. with us senior political editor and white house correspondent for "the washington post" sam
stein, former treasury official and economic analyst steve ratner. in washington columnist and associated editor for "washington post" david ignatius. great to have you on board. great stories. >> boston globe, bill cosby going to be facing trial. if you've felony over the past couple of months, especially in chicago, you'll see that the tsa -- you'll be glad to see tsa is shaking things up. people missing flights. >> summer plans might change. >> i was there a few weeks ago before this became a national story, i actually thought they had evacuated the terminal, there was such a security line. >> you don't have preclearance. >> i do but even that was crazy. >> any other headlines. >> the warriors lost. one loss away after being eliminated from record setting
season. thunder was unreal. >> let's get straight to politics, shall we. >> mika. >> last night donald trump easily won washington state primary pulling him within 40 delegates, 40 of clinching the nomination. i can hear a pickup truck. anyhow, that was overshadowed by violent night in albuquerque. anti-trump protests clashed outside the gop rally last night in new mexico. some of the crowd waved mexican flags while others set fires and even more chanted obscenities marching throughout the streets. things escalated when threw rocks at protesters and what and to be pepper spray to disperse the crowd. the police department said there were several injuries from getting hit with rocks and at least one person was arrested.
trump had reportedly left the area when the clash escalated on his way to los angeles where he will hold a mainly fundraiser. inside albuquerque convention center protesters sporadically interrupted trump's event where 8,000 turned out to hear him speak. at the rally trump spent a lot of time -- >> can we talk about the protest. does anybody question every time this happens, it just helps donald trump. his opponents just play right into his hands. >> absolutely. i think it builds him up but how do you tell these people that really don't like trump to stay home. >> that's a good way to do it. talking about the disorder and chaos. >> want to empathize with people's lives who feel generally threatened by trump's
policies. it plays to the sent of lawlessness trump says he will restore. >> restore law and order. >> 1968 thing order versus chaos, can i bring order versus chaos. remember chicago the night he had to cancel the speech, wall-to-wall coverage, it will be horrible for donald trump. >> every network all night long, bigger than the rally. >> perfect for trump. >> spent time responding to attacks when she seized on his comments that he hoped the housing market would crash so he could go in and buy. here is the web ad followed by clinton's attacks on the trail and trump's response last night. >> this is an economy that can't find the bottom of bad news. >> ten years of savings completely gone, vanished. >> the biggest crash of household wealth we've ever had in the united states. >> i kind of hope that happens
because then people like me would go in and buy. if there is a bubble burst as they call it, you know, you could make a lot of money. >> he actually said he was hoping for the crash that caused hardworking families across california and america to lose their homes all because he thought he could take advantage of it to make some money for himself. now he says he wants to roll back the financial regulations that we have imposed on wall street to let them run wild again. i'll tell you what, you and i together, we are not going to let him bankrupt america. and he has experience in bankruptcy. >> i see this low life, she puts on an ad, did you know donald trump was rooting against housing because he wants housing to go down because he wanted to
buy and they have got some clip of me many years ago saying if it goes down i'm going to buy. i'm a businessman. that's when i'm supposed to do. that's what i'm supposed to do. you see, if she did it, she would like to buy at the top. i want it if it goes down. i feel badly for everybody. what am i going to do? i'm in business. she goes, donald trump is a terrible person. he wanted to buy housing when it was at a low point. who the hell doesn't? who doesn't? >> just rolls off his back. willie, steve? >> our senior economics correspondent. >> you want to buy high? >> i wan to buy low. by wanting to buy low and rooting for it to go down so their houses will go in foreclosure is different.
>> any evidence he shorted the market or just reacted the bubble burst. >> there's knopf evidence of anything. he was asked the question and he was i'm rooting for it to go down so i can buy some. we don't know what he did. >> we don't know if he bought some. >> then elizabeth warren got bought act. warren gave a blistering speech on the financial market. this is near and dear to her heart and platform. it was laden with insults and withering trump-style mockery. >> what kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of their house? what kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of their jobs, to root for people to lose their pinks. to root for two little girls in clark county, nevada, to end up living out of a van? what kind of a man does that? i'll tell you exactly what kind
of man does that. it is a man who care about no one but himself. a small, insecure money gruber who doesn't care who gets hurt so long as he makes a profit off of it. >> donald trump is worried about helping poor little wall street. let me find the world's smallest violin to play a sad, sad song. >> note to the clinton campaign, please give her what she wants. >> she's better at this than most democratic senators. >> headline may 22, 2015, because i heard this and we all heard this. so headline, elizabeth warren bought foreclosed homes to make
a profit. before the crash she blamed on speculators, elizabeth warren made a bundle on houses. >> did she say i really hope they foreclosed so i can buy them. >> trump was making fairly decent business sense when he said that, it was just the inhumanity of rooting for people's homes to be foreclosed on that was jarring. i don't think anyone said that but him. he wasn't in politics. >> the way he tried to walk it back the other night, it was what you said. when you go back to what he originally said in '05 or '06, that was really pretty ugly. >> the thing is they are just not going to turn donald trump into mitt romney. that's what they are trying to do. i understand what they are trying to do it. they are in the going to do it. he's a man without shame.
of course i said that. of course i gave money to hillary clinton, republicans, he was in power. >> of course i have appear elevator, -- an elevator, i need one. >> you have a problem with me making money? you're a communist. >> elizabeth warren's attack was searing. >> people who like -- >> hillary clinton. you're hillary clinton. >> i'm for hillary clinton but i think hillary clinton is going to be a great wing man for hillary clinton when we get into this campaign because she can stay this stuff hillary clinton can't, and i think it resonates. >> just like ignatius it worked when marco rubio insulted donald trump. >> totally different scenario. >> he didn't insult him over his housing investments, he insulted him over something else. >> it got personal.
>> mitt romney attacking donald trump, one is a guy who is a target, the entire organization became brittle when it happened, the other ran right to the attacks and started throwing the arrows back. >> i still think trump because he refused to release his targets is going to be a sitting targetable to chip away at. new revolution. turned out he didn't pay taxes in the '70s. we'll learn more about the structures of the companies that produced that result. more will come. >> you know donald trump will go, hey, i'm a great businessman. i use every law i can in my favor. i will be that shrewd for you when i get elected. >> just as in this video clip he played, he'll say i don't root for people to get ruined. i'm a businessman. when the market go down, i buy.
people take that away, a little head scratching. well, i didn't pay any taxes, why should i -- another little head scratch. i think there's doing to be a continual -- the press is really out there looking at this stuff now, finally, i promise you. so we're going to get many, many more of these. i can't imagine each of the dismissal will -- >> you know what trump supporters do best, ah, that motion you do, dismissals. >> learn that from donald. >> here is the answer corey lewandowski gave to the tax question. he's going to pay the smallest amount possible which the american people understand. every deduction possible, he fights for every dollar. that's the mind-set you want to bring to the government. >> his answer to any business question, of course i took the opportunity to do everything i had for my business and i'll do the same for the country.
>> if he can brush it off with this explanation, why doesn't he release them? from now to november, why doesn't he release them and say exactly what you think he'll say because i think he pays no taxes. >> you need to stop making fun of me about elizabeth warren. >> i'm not making fun. >> she's not -- >> wasn't making fun of you. >> let me just tell you. >> i would never do that. >> what we saw there in those two sound bites defending against or framing -- >> attacking. >> donald trump's comments that were in the ad was elizabeth warren speaking from the heart, speaking with passion, speaking with something she feels deeply in her soul. hillary clinton speaking correctly with a lot of help from her campaign and words she has come up with but they are not -- you can see the difference. they need her. i hope they give her whatever
she wants. >> in fairness to hillary clinton, hillary clinton has to do it one way as the presumptive nominee and elizabeth warren can do what she does. you and i can now agree elizabeth warren will play an important role. >> they have got her. she's out making speeches, on twitter. whether they have got her or not, she's out making speeches. >> i have too much respect for you to ever do that. i'm curious, willie, do you think elizabeth warren is an effective -- is going to draw blood from donald trump. >> yes, i do. >> i don't think she'll -- i don't think -- >> it's like a cult. >> you don't get it. compare it to marco rubio. >> here we go, now she's going to go you guys. she's going to attack everybody. >> i think she is effective. i don't think they will make her a running mate. what she's doing now, poke at him -- >> we reported the other week
where clinton campaign was very much on notice for effectiveness and consideration for vp had risen. the problem is she's from a state run by republican governor. >> let's not get carried away. >> just giving you that. to your point, people in clinton's orbit are very aware of how good she is and they want to utilize her. >> so it's 4-1, i think. we all think she's good at this. >> she would be good at attacking other people. i don't think she'll draw blood from donald trump. that's not the way to draw blood. >> it's on because i totally disagree. >> she got a rise out of him, got him to send a bunch of hate tweets. >> that's really hurt him in the past, hasn't it? >> pretty much everybody at this table has that. >> we've all gotten those. >> it will be different when he attacks back in this case because she's actually putting herself out there as opposed to
some of the republican candidates that tiptoed out there and said something bad and then got squashed. they really didn't mean it, didn't know what they were doing and they were bad at it. still on "morning joe," what's the u.s. strategy against isis. david ignatius went to syria to find out. we'll get firsthand reporting from the war sobe. >> willie and i were thinking about going to syria to do that, too. you know what, we get all of our information from generals on tv and it's a lot easier. we just eat popcorn. >> so much more to report on tom brokaw, hallie jackson, jeremy peters on republican push to completely overhaul the primary process. plus -- >> it's true, the democrats presidential primary in washington doesn't count. you know your awful friend who says he doesn't vote because he doesn't feel like his vote counts. if he's a washington democrat, voting in the primary, he's right. he's still awful but he is
right. >> hillary clinton wins the washington state primary but bernie sanders win the caucus? we'll unpack the race hillary clinton is still running, but first, bill karins, a dangerous day out west. >> we literally flipped the switch. you'll feel it this afternoon. acs up in maine for the first time of the season. let's take you to dodge city, kansas, storm chasers all over these tornadoes. we had a lot of big ones and a lot on the strong side. thankfully rural areas, minor damage, no reports of serious injuries. look at that one right there. you can see storm chasers on the road. dangerously close. impressive stuff. not for the feint of heart. take you this morning, oklahoma overnight storms continued to ride your way. flash flooding through ft. smith, now tulsa up to the north. interstate 44 this morning not a fun drive. 17 million risk of severe
storms. not too many tornadoes, isolated tornado or two, minneapolis to st. louis, some strong storms. how about the heat today? yesterday we got a little hint in d.c. up to 88 degrees, we're going to be 90 in new york city, 85 in cleveland. this heat stays with us through the end of the week to memorial day. the end of memorial day weekend will be cooler. 90 ohio valley, northeast, while the west remains on the cool side. get ready. i hope everyone prepared like that. summer arrived in the east. washington, d.c., you're included. sun is doing to be beating down. you waited all day long and it's finally here. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪
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if i'm running for office, what democracy means to me, i've got to convince each and every one of to you vote for for me. if you don't vote for me, i can live with that. that's what democracy is all about. what i won't accept if somebody runs against me and buys the
election by putting billions of dollars into a campaign. >> do you think that, mika? >> i don't know. >> what do you think? >> i think that was bernie sanders. i think he won. >> you just said, sam wants to know -- >> i don't want to know. >> stop it now. >> just stop. >> explain to us what happened washington state. >> what happened was washington state had a contest, a caucus and bernie won, won big. >> so he won washington. >> then they decided to vote again and hillary won. >> i'm confused, who won washington. >> bernie did. >> no actually hillary did. that was last night but they had one before. >> why did they have it before. >> bernie won the first one. >> that's a good system. >> how do they do that? >> oh, my gosh.
>> i'm serious, what happened? who does this. >> you hear republicans go, you know what, we're going to try to change our system to make it better. that's what they did 40 years ago and they got donald trump. every time they try to rig a system to get a result they want, this time it was jeb bush, it always blows up in their face and they got donald trump. >> more people voted in the primary, even though their vote didn't count at all. a lot of people voted in the primary. >> a lot of people confused. a lot of people smoke pot. >> that makes them stupid. >> i didn't say there was anything wrong with that other than it makes you stupid. >> it makes people offended when i say that, because they are stupid. >> let's go to charts. >> charts. >> steve ratner's charts. what's the betting line look like when it comes to vice
presidents. >> this so well. >> general election. >> when marco rubio was the favorite for six months. >> that was a long time ago. you want to go back and revisit that, i'll bring you a chart. you don't want to revisit that. >> everybody is wrong. >> let's start with the republican side because the market that a stronger view. it has newt gingrich. >> mika, no surprise to you. you've been saying this since reagan's funeral, nancy reagan's funeral. >> beginning rich would be the oldest vice president in history at age 73, older than biden. anybody know who so far the oldest vice president in history was? >> meacham, right? >> it wasn't cheney? >> no. >> alvin barkley. >> my second-guess. my second-guess. >> all right. any event beginning rich on top.
a senator from iowa who has been mention add lot below and a whole bunch of alsos. >> we can get rid of martinez after trump insulted her. >> she's off the list. >> the thing to remember at 30% that's a one in three chance. you have a pronlt it will be somebody else. personally i find it hard to speculate about. >> what about the dems. >> it's more confusing because the market has a different view. there's really four people clustered in this top tier. again, relatively small percentages. you have castro, secretary of hud. tim kaine, a senator from virginia, head of dnc. >> smart pick, tim kaine. >> a good guy, lots of gravitas. >> elizabeth warren. >> not going to happen. >> bernie sanders. >> not going to happen.
>> should but won't. >> why should? >> i think the party is so split that was only way to bring it together in a meaningful way is to bring it together with bernie as vp. >> if you look at data points, the party was more split in 2008 than today. >> data points were polls showing 65% of democrats saying they were going to support hillary clinton. >> it was 60 in 2008. >> three more names on the list? >> yeah, there's tom perez, brown which would help bring in the liberal wing and cookie booker -- cory booker. >> his twin cousin cook -- >> one last chart interesting on the general election. amidst all these polls that have tightened and so forth, the betting markets had a clear view about this going all the way back. joe, if they are wrong, you can dismiss them forever but they have been consistent and they have been strong on the side of a democrat now obviously hillary clinton winning. even after all the issues of the
last couple weeks in terms of tightened polls and so on, 65% still predict -- 65% prediction till that the democrat, ie, hillary clinton, will be elected. you can see as you look through the timing of all this how the republicans have fared. as donald trump became more likely and as an establishment candidate became less likely, the republicans' chances declined until this most recent time when the polls have tightened so much. >> underselling trump a little bit. the elections tend to be much closer than obviously 65-35. >> this is not predicting -- who is going to win. >> i'm saying there are institutional issues, demographic issues obviously. the republican party is coalescing around donald trump much faster than anyone predicted. >> what odds to bet on trump. >> if i had to bet on trump. 46, 47, something like that.
>> almost even money. >> almost even money. that's not really almost even money. 46 is probably -- it's close to even money. >> is it fair to say these numbers are wrong during the last year. i remember early trump numbers were nonexistent, projection models, not betting, well regarded -- >> betting markets are not perfect. they have predicted ultimate outcome very well. early on they did not take trump seriously. >> they were dead wrong on the republican side. >> but in fairness, they flipped around to trump back at the time of the nevada primary and were pretty consistently trump after that. if you don't believe me i'll bring that chart next week. >> pretty nice point to flip. you won new hampshire and south carolina. oh, i got it. >> at that point you may as well be silver saying donald trump will never win and then try to explain why you weren't as wrong as you were. no, everybody got it wrong.
upshot was horrible. had marco up there. no reason why everybody should have said marco was going to win. you say -- you think it's like 55-45. what do you think? >> i think it's 65-35. i'm a market guy. >> what do you think willie now. >> i think she's got an edge, 60-40. >> i definitely think she's got an edge but i don't think -- >> you don't think 60-40. >> 65-35. somebody asked me yesterday. i said given the way he has been reacting to things over the last week, 65-45. >> 65-35. >> if it had been the week after wisconsin when he started disciplining himself i would say close, even money. he's actually becoming more reckless, more combative, looking more like he's a primary candidate as he needs to make the shift the window closes
soon. i don't care what polls say. people are looking at polls. you have disaffected democrats that are going to come home. i said it when nobody else said nobody will get behind trump, go back and look at tapes, this is what parties do, they say we'll never get behind him and they coalesce. it will happen on the democratic side, too. when it happens on the democratic side there's going to be a distancing between these two. unless donald trump starts acting like a real general election candidate and not answering every twitter response, he's going to lose. >> there's a question whether he's even capable of it. trump is being trump. he's being himself. he said it worked so far, why should i change. >> there's two questions. i'm serious. there's a question of can he discipline himself. right now he's answered that. no, he can't. he's incapable of disciplining himself to be president of the
united states. number two, does he want to win. that is the biger question rising in my head every day. at this point it's about 50/50 that he actually wants to win. i think maybe he just wants to make a point. the way he's been operating the past week or so has been shameful. he's disgraced himself, he's embarrassed himself. i don't even know if he wants to win. we'll see. >> coming up how to win friends and influence people. >> i put it at 65-35. >> donald trump style. he goes after republican governor of new mexico on her own home turf. >> great example. that's a great thing to do, donned, trying to win votes in the swing state. >> top figures in democratic party even some clinton supporters acknowledge there may have to be a changing of the guard for the national party if they want to keep the peace with bernie sanders and his supporters. new reporting on that in just a moment. today's the day! oh look! creepy gloves for my feet. when i was a kid there was a handle. and a face.
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35 past the hour. at his rally in new mexico last night donald trump took on a prominent member of his own party. >> that's a smart thing to do. >> republican governor susana martinez. >> you know what, though. this is not a democratic he needs. he does not need hispanic women so that explains why you would attack a hispanic woman who is a governor of a swing state. this is a guy acting like he wants to win. >> she's currently the chair of
the republican governor's association. >> she's not a powerful republican governor. >> and nation's first female hispanic governor. >> not a trail blazer. >> she held off endorsing trump and didn't attend the rally. she said she was really busy. trump let the crowd know what he thinks of the governor last night. >> since 2000 the number of people on food stamps in new mexico has tripled. we have to get your governor to get going. she's got to do a better job. okay? your governor has got to do a better job. she's not doing the job. hey, maybe i'll run for governor of new mexico. she's not doing the job. here is something you'll love. syrian refugees are relocated in large numbers to new mexico. if i was governor that wouldn't
be happening. >> yeah, you will do well in mexico. >> a spokesman for martinez spoke last night. the governor will not be bullied into supporting a candidate until she's convinced they will fight for new mexicoans. governor martinez doesn't care what donald trump says about her, she cares what he says he'll do to help new mexicoans. she didn't hear anything about that today. >> david ignatius, does donald trump wan to win the presidency? i ask this in all seriousness. >> he loves being in front of tv screen every night. he's not acting like somebody who deeply want to win the presidency. there's still a mad max quality to the way he operates himself. i'm like you, if you wanted to win it, you wouldn't have done what he just did. >> attacking, mika, a hispanic woman who is a governor in a
swing state that republicans haven't won in a while that need to win. she's also the head of the republican governors' association. again, these may be things you do in intramural batteries in republican primaries. as we have said for the past month or so, he's got to make the turn. autoes got to start actsing like general election candidate. he's just not doing anything. >> her acting on principle and responding in kind, tough. then to see people flocking behind him with no reason for it, like ari fleischer or woody johnson, money guy for -- i don't understand where these people are getting -- >> you have people say he's bad for america. you look at the quotes from the primaries and say he's bad for america, dangerous, would ruin america. >> ari fleischer, what happened.
>> then they do, we endorse donald. >> he might bring to american manufacturers. the supreme court seat, so important. really, you're wearing these equally? i will say this to the discipline question, it's true. he can't discipline himself. i thought the post interview where vince foster came up was perfectly indicative of this. he didn't bring it up, asked him about it, more disciplined politician side step it, not get into it, go down the road, he couldn't help himself, he had to jump on the law of conspiracy. >> i think from reading that article, a little confusing. some people on twitter said he actually did bring it up. he may have property it up a week prior and the post was saying, okay -- they didn't just pull it up from '93. they said a comment from a week before. >> two different points -- >> two different points he brought up. >> that's a thing, we had haley
barbour on, a great example, got great respect for haley but haley was spinning for donald trump yesterday, a guy he loathed not too long ago. he said, well, they asked the question. if you ask haley barbour that question, he'd go, that's ancient history and the feds looked into that. i'm worried about getting people back to work. it's not hard. >> all these people coming around, no ringing endorsement with donald trump, they go to hillary clinton. >> he said we can't afford to have hillary clinton picking supreme court justices. it's not for donald trump but owe. >> it's about supreme court justices. >> people like woody johnson, not supreme court people, more broadly we don't want hillary clinton and donald trump is what we've got. >> that's it. >> it's not that they love trump.
i don't know anybody in my world that loves trump. >> you don't have to do an endorsement. >> the thing is -- >> they want -- if he wins, they want to have influence in the administration for whatever purpose they may have in mind. >> power and influence. >> that's it. >> not about what's right. >> new report from the hill, mika. >> says democrats are discussing whether debbie wasserman schultz should step down. >> what do you think about that, mika. >> as dnc chairwoman. >> mika has been clear on that. >> has she already talked about that. >> should do it before the party convention in july. when pro hillary clinton democratic senator tells the hill, quote, there have been lots of meetings over the last 48 hours over what color plate. >> debbie wasserman schultz. >> we have the author of the piece. >> david, it's simple. debbie wasserman schultz has to go for the sake of party unity. >> well, given the ability of
the other party to survive turmoil, i hate to jump on debbie what is shuts, she has made a lot of enemies, a role to bring people together to make enemies is crucial. she may have gone past that tipping point in terms of that and in terms of issues that people say surround her. she -- florida is really important in this general election and she, i think, can be helpful to them in florida. they ought to weigh that when they make the decision. >> the author of the piece senior reporter for the hill. tell us about these meetings. are they serious, considering asking her to step down? and what in your reporting or information do you have about whether or not she's really been able to be sort of objective and father in this process? because my contention all along has been she's been in the tank for hillary from the get go and
it's been quite obvious. >> yeah, she's been in the tank for hillary. i think what's surprising about what i found out reporting last week and this week, this talk that she needs to step down isn't coming from sanders supporters, it's coming from state your name pro hillary supporters. they see her as a drag on hillary because the problem that hillary has, in their view, there's an enthusiasm gap. people, democrats, especially young voters who are an important constituency aren't very enthusiastic about clinton. debbie wasserman schultz has become the face of the rigged system as bernie sanders sees it. they think it's going to be tough for young voters to embrace hillary while debbie wasserman schultz is the face of the party. the other thing, a messy party, worried about 1968 convention. though fears hit home after state convention in nevada where you had these violent outbursts, angry demonstrations and debbie wasserman schultz poured fuel on the fire criticizing bernie sanders hamply.
i spoke to jeff merkley, the only senator who supports sanders, he says it was unbelievable. it was tone deaf. so i think she'll really -- what these pro clinton democrats are worried about, not so much whether bernie will endorse hillary, that will happen but worried about getting supporters to embrace her enthusiastically. >> debbie wasserman schultz has been on this show and defensive of the debate schedule, for example, defending the superdelegate system, defending the closed primaries. do you believe in all your reporting that the dnc has been fair to bernie sanders in this process? >> i don't think so. from having follow the campaign. the scheduling of televised debates during times that aren't likely to draw big audiences, freezing his access to key voter database before the iowa and new hampshire caucus and primary, characterizing it as a theft of
data when really that isn't what happened. those are things that set the tone early. then joint fundraising between dnc and clinton campaign, that's something sanders saw as unfair and supporters. there are a number of data points sanders can point to quite convincingly. that's what weaver said, campaign manager on msnbc. for personal reasons she's against sanders campaign and that's why she's become such a divisive figure in the party. that's a problem when you're trying to unify people ahead of philadelphia. >> thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you coming. >> thanks for having me. >> when we come back david ignatius back to the middle east. his new reporting in just a moment. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them.
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syria. what can you say about what you say. >> we wonder about this islamic state is going. i had a unique experience traveling with sent com commander, responsibility. the first time centcom commander took media with him spot war zone in six years by my count. an interesting opportunity. the most interesting part was going into syria itself. we did this under great secrecy. we were not allowed to disclose we were there until we were out and in ahman, jordyn. we were able to see first military trainers and advisers on the ground living rough, living in these places with local tribesmen, male and female. i've had a chance to say now that i've had a chance to eyeball this, america should understand we have some extraordinary young people in this fight who are living in
remote dangerous places doing really remarkable things. that was one big takeaway. second big takeaway just how overwhelming our military power is now that we've finally begun to engage it. for months we've been talking on the who about the slow pace of the isis campaign, it's now beginning to accelerate and see it in place. >> you see that in place your reporting suggests but also suggests sunni sheiks that decided to side with us after in charge of anbar province are now deciding to side with the united states again but you say possibly for cynical reason. >> i think it is. it's pragmatic. sunni shaikhs, tribal politics is about the survival of your tribe. when isis blew into sunni areas of iraq and syria, tribal leaders in many cases made accommodations to keep people alive, sources of revenue alive.
that's how it works. tribal leaders, i spoke to three in northern syria. i spoke to pane people working with tribes in iraq, the tribal leaders do see this opportunistic moment where they think isis is beginning to lose and there is a bandwagon effect. up and down euphrates river, which was isis territory stone cold you're beginning to see tribes hedge their bets by coming over. many of these tribes are split, half in isis, half out. so there's an interesting trend there. specifically in the training camp i visited, i talked top three tribal shaikhs who said we have three members of our tribe in raqqah, islamic capital, they are sending us messages every day by cell phone text saying come get us. we want out. we were also told there's evidence that the islamic state fighters themselves are sending their families out because they know the attacks are coming.
>> when does the islamic state collapse in that area? >> that's a while off. it's a mistake, there's an arabic expression, slowly, slowly. >> that's what i was saying. [ speaking foreign language ] >> i could hear you saying it. it's not imminent. but what you see is the gradual strangulation of these areas. the forces around them are getting tighter. it's tighter to resupply, harder to get fighters. the overall commander said our strategy is to push them in so many different places at once that they can't respond simultaneously to all those attacks. it will stress their resources. so final point, military side, i saw in this going pretty well. political side we're still building on political quicksand out there. the bake structures we need are not there. i don't want to leave viewers with the impression, gosh, this is all great.
political side has to get fixed for people to have confidence. >> david ignatius we'll be reading your reporting at washingtonpost.com. >> stay with us, david. >> stay with us on "morning joe" when we return. question, and be honest... ...are my teeth yellow? ...have you tried the tissue test? the what? ... tissue test! hold this up to your teeth...
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he will put out a plan close to dismantling dodd/frank. can donald trump even name three things about dodd/frank. >> hillary clinton has somebody. did you ever hear of pocahontas? it's pocahontahontas elizabeth
warren, she's going out, probably the senator doing about the least in the united states senate. she's a total failure. she said she was an indian. she said because her cheek bones are high that she was an indian, that she was native american. we have these surrogates, people like her, total failures. >> did she put that on -- the cheekbone thing? >> i heard. >> did you write that in on harvard spaces. >> cheek bones high, cheek bones low. >> stop it, both of you. >> we're making fun, she didn't say her cheek bones were high. >> she did, later. >> did she really? >> she said it was family lore she had 1/32 cherokee and talked about the high cheek bones. it was not like -- >> did she really say? >> no, no, no. >> this is a parity.
>> in contexts it's not the worst. >> during her campaign. >> folklore. i'm not going to tell you folklore about my family. >> think about that. wednesday may 25th. welcome back to "morning joe." >> great to have you guys with us. >> senior political editor and white house correspondent for "the washington post" sam stein with us. >> hi, sam. >> now an msnbc political contributor rick tyler. in washington columnist and associate editor for "washington post" david ignatius and "new york times" jeremy peters with new reporting this morning. good to have you all on board this morning. add washington to the states donald trump has won. he's now in sight of clinching the nomination literally. forty are we? that was overshadowed by a violent night in albuquerque. anti-trump protesters clashed with police outside gop's rally last night in new mexico. someone in the crowd waved
mexican flags while others set fires and chanted obscenities marching through the streets. things escalated when protesters threw rocks at officers who used smoke canisters and what and to be pepper spray to disperse the crowds. the albuquerque police department said several officers treated for injuries hit by rocks and at least one person was arrested. trump had reportedly left the area by the time clashes escalated on the way to los angeles where he will hold a major fundraiser. inside the albuquerque convention center protester sporadically interrupted trump's event where 8,000 turned out to hear him speak. >> rick tyler, at the end of the day, these protests, they just seemed to help trump. going out and having violent protests, all you're doing is playing into his hands. >> i think so. if you have -- if trump's central message is about trade an immigration and people in the united states waving mexican
flags, i understand why they do that, but sort of reinforces everything trump is saying about we're being overrun, our jobs taken away. >> rigged. donald trump and surrogates beginning an all out barrage or bill clinton's history with women. >> they have gone after it hard. really tough. donald trump like the last couple of days brought up rape with sean hannity 20 years of a the fact. >> vince foster. >> vin foster which was just despicable bringing up vince foster. he's always been that way. >> some calling trump out for past scandals dismissing the president. in a 1998 interview with chris matthews trump said clinton should have taken the fifth on questions about his personal life and even attacked clinton accuser paula jones. >> paula jones is a loser but the fact is she may be responsible for bringing down a president indirectly. i'm not sure they shouldn't have
taken fifth amendment, i don't get along with this man star, he's a republican, this, that, and taken the fifth amendment. it's a terrible thing for the president to take the fifth amendment but he probably should have done it. >> paula jones is a loser, a woman sexually harassed, a loser? >> in 2012 trump called linda tripp the woman who reported monica lewinsky, evil. >> that was in 2000. certainly as we got closer -- >> in 2008 called clinton scandal something totally unimportant adding, and they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense. just 11 months ago in his first interview on our program as a presidential candidate trump took another shot at clinton accuser's looks while calling him the best president of the last 25 years. >> who is the best? >> bush 41, clinton, bush 43 or obama, an why? >> i would really say clinton
probably. had he not met monica, had he not met paula, had he not met various and sundry semibeautiful women, he would have had a much better deal going. he was destroyed by that. he was really hurt very badly by it. but he's teflon. >> he's not consistent. >> willie, i didn't enremember back in june of last year he called the man whose reputation he is trying to destroy now the greatest president of the last quarter century. >> chose him over george h.w. bush. >> over obama. >> this whole -- everything mika laid out gets to the criticism of donald trump, which is he's saying things in the last 12 months to get himself elected to become nominee and now president that are completely inconsistent
with what he said in the past not just bill clinton but trade, abortion, everything else. >> we were talking about libya and he said hillary made a horrible, horrible decision to go into libya and somebody e-mailed me a long video clip like five minutes later where he was i guess in 2011 -- >> when it launched. >> saying we've got to go in there, go after gaddafi, finish him off. >> the man is a walking set of contradictions. i can't shake the idea the way he speaks off the cuff when pieces don't fit together. it's part of why people like him. a year ago would have said on the show goes to republicans and says he likes bill clinton best, that kind of comment because why people began to say, here is somebody different. he doesn't say preprogrammed answers. the question in the general election, all this video saying everything under the sun, how
does he keep that fresh, spontaneous, new person insurgent quality to his campaign? i'm not sure he can. >> rick? >> he's right. he doesn't seem to be conflicted at all about what he's saying. i'm not sure it's going to hurt him. look, he's running against a politician. he vanquished 14 politicians. people don't believe politicians anymore. they want an outsider. he's the ultimate outsider. they like him and believe it. that question on the show, who would have answered that question. here are four presidents, who is the best. nobody would answer that question. >> we were shocked when he said bill clinton. that's right when he was starting his republican run. >> reinforces he's not a politician. you ask him a question, he's going to answer it. politicians don't do that. >> i think this is framing -- actually not necessarily an attack on bill clinton. i think he's probably going to
receive collateral damage as a result but ultimately framing his opponent. >> it is. i'm not going to articulate it but i'm sure he will. >> how do you, if you're donald trump, attack hillary clinton for being an enabler when at the same time this is going on, you're calling paula jones a woman who said she was sexually harassed and bill clinton paid in a lawsuit, if i'm not mistaken. you've got donald trump calling her a loser on national television at the same time. how does trump connect those dots? how does he connect those dots and say bill clinton is the worst person ever when just 11 months ago he was saying bill clinton was the best president in 25 years. >> he does it by speaking loudly and confidently. it seems like that's his modus operandi here, ignore everything
i said in the past and the plat orman for the future. when you talk to people who work on his campaigns, it's not a winning strategy. people have tried to blame hillary for her husband's indiscretions before. usually what it does is ingenders people to hillary clinton. they feel sympathetic. they don't think it's her fault over what bill d i don't necessarily think this is some grand strategic genius stroke from trump here. i think he's trying to wing it. i'm not sure it's going to work because it plays into her hands in some respects. >> we talked yesterday, plays well in republican primary a group of people predisposed to dislike clintons and what they went through in the anyone 90s. the cloud of smoke is do you really want to go back to the drama of clinton years, go back to the scandals and every day something happens. that's what he's trying to get at. >> reminding people on chaos and scandals, also relying they don't remember details.
who are these people? what did they do? that again. >> also millennial voters that weren't there following the news every second. >> yeah, i think i'll leave it there. >> what do you think? >> i think it's going to get worse than this. >> yu, that's uplifting. >> jeremy peters you have a front page piece this morning talking about why republicans are considering changes to the primary structure next election cycle. after all the chaos this year, what are you reporting on and what states specifically could be impacted? >> i think what you have going on right now is this discussion inside both political parties. really, they are trying to answer the most fundamental question a political party can ask itself, that's who do we want to participate in presidential primary process. on the republican side because of the success of donald trump, a man a lot of conservatives deeply, deeply mistrust, there is a call to close off the primaries, to make more of them closed, so you don't have the
opportunities trump had to pull in independent voters who are not registered republicans. on the other side, you have people who want to open up the process a little bit more and say that, look, all of this new voting going on is a good thing. it broadens the reach of the party. beyond that, you have a discussion about early states, new hampshire, nevada, seems like all the troubles in vote counting and long lines in nevada there's a consensus in the republican party that maybe nevada shouldn't be in the top four anymore. so i've heard it's likely to get the boot. it will be replaced by another western state first on the calendar. so i think this is all something that's going to come to a head and start getting debated. >> we're talking about more close primaries. >> a lot of republicans, especially supporters of ted cruz want to see. rick could probably speak to this. i think there's a deeply held
conviction among republicans that true loyal republicans should determine the nominee not independents who don't have loyalty to the parties. >> i think that's one of the stupidest things i've heard in my life. >> after 2012 they did all these things to prevent something like this from happening and, of course, it happened. >> fighting the last battle. >> it didn't work. they were basically trying to get this system set up so it didn't drag on so long. they thought they were going to have jeb bush. instead their rules got them donald trump. >> history has other plans. every election cycle we go through this, right? they try to fix something from the last cycle and create new problems and you have the factor of donald trump coming in. it sort of magnifies all the things they went the other direction. it's ironic. they compressed the cycle but this the longest cycle ever. it's gone on forever. and, look, there are a lot of
people that remember donald trump won washington last night but ted cruz will send more delegates to cleveland than out of washington of that's been consistent in a lot of states. they are going to want to protect his ability to run in 2020 if he chooses to do so. and i think there is a lot to be said. you may disagree wit. but people are free to join the republican party and shape it the way they want. it's not as if -- when you say a closed primary doesn't mean you can't participate, just means have you to enroll and register as a republican, because the party should be based on beliefs, ideology. >> candidates that can actually draw independents to the party, so you not only win a primary, you've got a guy that can win a general election. >> i don't think the middle is there anymore store number 44 they have in common. we don't shop at the same restaurants go, to the same movies, the same people, watch the same television shows, morning shows, read the same
newspapers. the middle used to be like this and now it's like this, left and right. >> except, of course, for "morning joe." >> terry mcauliffe spent yesterday taking on reports that he's being investigated by fbi. he said his initial reaction was shock but insisted everything has been strictly aboveboard and the donner in question fully vetted. >> can you guarantee fbi will find no wrongdoing on your part? >> absolutely. no wrongdoing allegations. if you read the story yesterday they have some questions about a donner. my legal team fully vetted this individual. he's been a green card holder since 2007 so we're very comfortable. this has nothing to do with the clinton foundation. this was an allegation of a gentleman who gave a check to my campaign. i didn't bring the donner in, i didn't bring him bought clinton foundation. i'm not sure if i've ever met the person. >> "the new york times" said the donner in question, a chinese politician and terry mcauliffe met in 2012 at a dinner before
west coast all i have ran for governor. >> maybe he did meet them. basically comes down to whether this guy, this chinese politician was a legal u.s. citizen or had legality. if it turns out he's a foreign national and it's illegal then mcauliffe is in trouble. >> quick answer. >> seems pretty quick. i don't know. maybe they are going to investigate how he got the green card, maybe it's a forgery, i don't know what's going on. this doesn't seem that complex to me. >> all right. jeremy peters and rick tyler, thank you both. still ahead on "morning joe," chuck todd and tom brokaw join the table. tom back from france where he received that country's highest honor. talk about tom's nonstop work on behalf of veterans and the greatest generation. plus -- >> when the v.a. secretary compared the lines at his agency
to lines at an amusement park, we were dumbfounded. this is not disney land or wonderland for that matter. veterans have died waiting in line for their care. >> does he need to resign? >> i don't know if he should resign. he should clarify comments and show empathy for veterans he's supposed to serve. >> members of congress are not happy with the veterans affairs secretary's comments comparing lines at clinics to lines at disney land. so he apologized, right? >> i don't know if it was an apology. >> that's next on "morning joe."
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only with xfinity. >> clarify comments, comparing clinic wait times to lines at disney theme parks. here are original comments followed by remarks nbc andrea mitchell yesterday. >> should be measuring is veteran's satisfaction. i mean, what really counts is how does the veteran feel about their encounter with the v.a. when you go to disney, do they
measure the number of hours you wait in line? what's important? what's your important is what's your satisfaction with the experience. what i would like to move to eventually is that kind of measure. >> are you sorry you said what you said? >> i'm here to improve veterans experience, here to get more veterans in for care, reduce disability backlog. wait times are important but they are not the only measure of veteran experience. that's what veterans are telling us. we've talked to a lot of veterans. it's important. if i was misunderstood, i said the wrong thing, i'm glad i have downtown correct it. >> all right. joining us now nbc news special correspondent and as of last friday one of the latest recipients of france's highest of honor, the legion of honor bestowed for all the tireless
work tom has done on fwaf of world war ii vet rabs. congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> i just want to start humming the national anthem. >> chuck todd. >> the other recipient was tom hanks and nick mueller from world war ii museum. >> who gets top billing? >> tom does. >> before we talk about tom's extraordinary honor, let's talk about the v.a. secretary there. >> what he said was clumsy but it didn't strike as fireball offense. we know how washington works. you get fired for a gaffe if somebody is looking to fire you. they are not going to fire this guy. people trying to drum this up into a phony controversy are looking desperately to find an issue or something.
wrap themselves -- veterans groups aren't calling for him -- if we chase this guy out over misspeak, this is a guy who came from the private sector, everything we say we want. an untrained politician. it showed. if we drum this guy out, good luck getting anybody from the private sector. >> you said you wanted to talk about donald trump's comments about bob gates, seeing it from france was frightening and unsettling. >> what struck me about it, i don't think there's been a more highly regarded public servant in the last 15 or 20 years than bob gates. he's a guy with a lot of experience across party lines. people like him a lot. he tells it as he sees it. i would think that if donald trump were looking to try to get help from the republican party establishment from the people who served on the hill, going after gates is not the wisest
possible thing. what gates had to say was absolutely correct. if you're president of the united states you don't jump the gun on downing of an airliner and say it was obviously a terrorist attack and trump turns around and says, look, 15 years we've been having troubles in the country, guys like gates were in power. he seems never to pay any penalty for that. that's what's interesting to me. >> david ignatius, the comment from donald was jarring to mika and me. i think most of washington would consider bob gates to be -- we always complain there's no longer any giants roaming the earth in washington, d.c., any wise men or wise women. bob gates is one of those. that's indisputable. if you don't like what bush and obama has done, just imagine how much worse it would have been without bob gates at their side.
>> the bob gates affair, if you will reminds me of the damage that trump is really seeking to do. bob gates is a symbol of the small remaining central ground on which we build foreign policy. bob gates worked for george w. bush. he was kept on by obama in a very sensible move to have some continuity at the defense department in a time of wars. in attacking him, trump is really attacking i think the foundations of how american foreign policy works. not particular policies but just the idea that you'd have continuity and a person like gates who served what is it 40, 45 years in various agencies. it's an attack on that idea as much as the man. >> mika, he served with your father, when your father ran national security and was an extraordinary servant even then at a young age.
>> we were recently at an event at the center for strategic and international studies and bob gates received the first award there under my father's name, my dad, gates, great minds in foreign policy. >> senator warner. >> you looked across the room, where are we going to get -- this is it right here. >> gates represents, i think, a time gone by. we're roughly the same generation and washington was destination if you were a political science major as i was and my friends were, you wanted to go to washington and get a good job at the defense department or one of the national security agencies and serve there. that's been by and large i interviewed him recently and he said vast majority of our federal employees are 60 and older. we're in the getting the young people coming prison i'll tell you stats worse than you think, 7% of the federal workforce is under 75.
seven. can you imagine any company with that little millennials involved. >> they don't like it in the world. bob gates gets that and recognizes it. you're not going into washington and with a sweep of your hand and change it. >> this conversation the last five minutes ago sounds like we're the elites. it smacks -- i get everything we're saying. anybody who spent time here we all know -- the average trump supporter is out there thinking these great foreign policy minds, where have they gotten us? my kid has been on six deployments. what brilliance has come about their managing of the middle east. so you want to know why trump is not paying the price? that's why he's not paying the price. >> then you dig into what bob gates has done, he has been the one when he first sat down with george w. bush and bush wanted him to be a secretary of
defense. one of the things he said was, you know what, we've done bait and switch on national guard. we owe them better. we owe them more. when he left, he broke down and cried over the very issues that you are talking about. he was a fierce defender of the men and women in uniform, constantly telling politicians day in and day out they deserve better than they are getting. without bob gates there, again, if you didn't like george w. bush's foreign policy, i promise you it would have been much worse. if you didn't like barack obama's foreign policy, i promise you it would have been much worse because he was a leveling wind. he has been a leveling wind. he's worked for democrats, he's worked for republicans, he's worked for democrats. >> you have to know about him. >> by the way, donald trump knows nothing about that. he knows nothing about his history. he just shoots off at his mouth
about bob gates. if he did, if he read books, he wouldn't have said what he said about robert gates. >> but on the other hand, chuck is quite right. his followers so devoted to him, whether fact really wrong, perception, they are with him. gates told me a remarkable story about relationship with obama administration. he went over to afghanistan in the bunker with special forces and saw a telephone and said what's that? the white house put that in, a direct line to the white house. he said white house not your boss, i am. take it out. i'm going to stand here right now and watch you take it out. then went back and lit things up in the nsc circles in washington of that's the kind of strength he had. he knew what the rules were for reporting up and down the line. >> this is one of the things neither campaign has talked about, i don't think trump thought about it. the biggest problem with foreign policy, david would agree, you have both bush and obama they
think they can run the world from nsc and they don't need the pentagon. they don't need state. they cut them out. you know why clinton and gates were close? because they bonded over getting cut out of the loop too many times by nsc. we saw it in the bush administration. that at some point frustrated folks over at pentagon and state, too, the same thing. are we going to have another -- trump's presidency looks like he wants to run it out of the oval. >> david ignatius, i talked to so many people that run foreign policy, high up in the obama administration, we've all talked to them, the extraordinary frustration of just how closely held foreign policy is now, there aren't checks and balances, there are one, two, three people in the white house that determine foreign policy. nsc meetings used to happen where you would sit down and the president would say, what have you got? now nsc meetings began with the
statement this is what the president wants to do. let's do it. >> i think it is a more controlling, centralized top down system than i've ever seen. there's a phrase you hear from military officers about the 5,000 mile screwdriver that somebody in the white house is trying to turn to micromanage a piece of policy. >> a good visual. >> that said, they are beginning to roll out more of a campaign plan now that delegates authority they have got, centcom commander and general mcfarland three star in baghdad, very strong. these are generals in the classic mode of good u.s. military leadership. just on the point of bob gates, what donald trump i think probably has no idea of is that in the years when american service people were getting horribly maimed and killed in
inadequately armored vehicles, bob gates threw a tantrum. he went nuts. i was with him in kuwait. he said why can't we build something safer. why are these kids getting killed? sir, we can get this down six to eight months. that's not going to happen. you're going to get it done now. he made a nuisance of himself, fired people until he got it done. people talk about washington as if it's a smooth place where nothing happens. it actually is people like bob gates who are committed to their mission and just, you know, will persist until they get done things that help the troops that they are trying to support. >> talk is cheap. everybody can talk about helping veterans, men and women in uniform. actually bob gates. you know what, he actually did it. it wasn't a punch line for crappy, rambling stream of conscious speech. it was a way of life for him, to fight for our veterans, fight
for men and women in uniform, protect them, do his job to get they will home to their families. >> you know what happened, i was in france when donald trump immediately made a judgment about what happened to flight 804, terrorism and a reflection of where we are in the world. france, where the flight originat originated, they were taking a much more measured view, we have to find out, get the facts in order. it's a very complex world we're living, the wore on terrorism is extraordinarily complex and can't be solved with campaign slogans. i think right now, by the way, and this table is a reflection of that every day, we're in what i call the presuper bowl speculation about what's going to happen. then the ball is kicked off and everything changes. i don't know whether he'll have a different attitude by the time he gets to the convention or by the time he gets to the fall. there's a lot of this as well on the democratic side. >> you know chuck todd, we've got to go to break but we've been saying for three weeks,
four weeks, he doesn't have that much time to make the turn. >> i don't think he will make the turn. but by the way, the reason i'm checking my watch, 48 hours libertarian party will name its nominee. if bob gates wants to travel to orlando and solve a lot of problems for a lot of people in washington, go hijack the libertarian party nomination. >> i like you have an alert on your watch. >> absolutely. >> you joke, i do believe -- >> the big hand is -- >> i do believe, though, with gary johnson and bill -- they will be a factor in this. the 8 to 12%, combination, none of the above, whatever you want to call it is going to mess around with the map. >> we shall see. >> tom brokaw congratulations again receiving legion of honor. >> do you know the french
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politics, democrats look fondly bat years and republicans. leading to 21st century gridlock. we're going to try for some solutions ahead on "morning joe." ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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42 past the hour joining us, from public policy, national review and weekly standard and author of the new book "the fractured republic renewing america's social contract in the age of individualism." he argues politics on both sides of the aisle has been paralyzed by nostalgia. writes, democrats talk about public policy as though it were always 1965 and the model of the
great society welfare state will answer our every concern. and republicans talk as though we're always 1981 and a repetition of the rig revolution is the cure for what is a us. it is hardly surprising that the public finds the resulting political debates frustrating. >> one of the reasons we've been suggesting -- great honor to have you here. >> thank you very much. very excited. we've sat around this table for some time that we thought the rise of trump would happen republican party, my conservative movement kept talking like it was 1980 and didn't realize the world changed an never really developed economic policies that spoke to the working class americans who, in effect, were our base. >> yeah. i think that's absolutely right. that's key to the problem republicans have had. there have been some people in the conservative movement who have tried for a while to remind people that the 21st century is here.
republican politicians have talked to voters as if all they need to hear is that they are going to rerun the reagan revolution without thinking about what the reagan revolution was, which was a response to the challenges of the late 1970s and 1980s, rooted in conservative principles. a response to 21st century problems would look different. the republican party has not done the work of figuring out exactly what that is or at least showing voters they have done that. >> we've talked about it a lot. i was actually in a conference with you in 2012, everybody has talked about it but at the end of the day it seems everybody pushes a button and goes back to reset. >> yeah, i think some of the people who think about policy on the right have tried to do that work and some people who talked about politics on the right have tried to but the politicians have always thought the way to get to voters hearts was to remind them of the good old days. by the way, this happens in both parties. democrats are very nostalgic. if you listen to how hillary clinton talks it's not all that
different ultimately. it's about going back, bringing america back to its heyday in the eyes of baby boomer politicians. voters are not as persuaded it's possible to go backward. some have created circumstances. trump does it, too. goes to pittsburgh and says he's going to bring steel back. pittsburgh isn't even looking to bring steel back anymore. that's not how things work. all of this speaking to a sense in the country that things are not going well and america is not what it used to be. the way to get us to where we need to be is not to pretend we can turn back the clock. that's not an option. >> talk about humility. you say conservatives need to show more humility. >> i think it's absolutely essential. ultimately conservatism is grounded in kind of humility about what's achievable. that's what it is to be a conservative, have a limited view of what applications of power can do. i don't think that's the image conservatives have given the country. unfortunately it's certainly not the image donald trump has given
the country so that problem is not addressed either. >> when you talk electoraly and democratic challenges in presidential elections, go back to mitt romney, women, minorities, latino voters, donald trump is having those same challenges this time and even worse in some of those categories. how do you change that dynamic in the country for republican party? >> it seems to me that the way to break out of that problem, we can only speak to this one group of voters -- by the way, that group of voters is older white men also somewhat nostalgic for the heyday of their youth. the way to break out is to talk about present, contemporary problems. conservatives are if we can get problems we have now in a good position to talk to the language of the 21st century. we don't think you solve problems the way the old industrial did 100 years ago. you solve from the bottom up in a decentralized way by letting people make choices. that's what conservatives think.
if you're just an average voter listening to republicans i don't think you have any idea that's the case. >> worry about the messenger more than than the message. >> a little too old for the country, too backward looking for the country but the message, republicans have to realize they have more to offer than what they are putting before voters. can you see it in the republican primary, ted cruz would go state to state telling voters, the problem with donald trump, donald trump is not a conservative. voters would listen and say, okay, he's not a conservative. what else have you got? that's not actually saying something. you need to talk about how to solve problems. you need to show you understand what the problems are. ultimately i think that does allow you to break out of those demographic categories. >> i think we know what some of the problems are. what would you have republicans say. what's number one, two, and three on your list of policy prescriptions. >> i think what's really crucial to understand and the reason it's called "the fractured republic" the way the country
has changed and the country nostalgic for, a fractured society in the 21st century is now a fragmented society. that's good and bad. we're more dynamic, more diverse. it also meant things are less stable, less secure. the way to respond to that is decentralize the way we think about public policy. a country not as consolidated shouldn't be governed in the way that much more centralized american life of the 1960s was governed. republicans do have solutions has work this way. if you think how republicans think about welfare, education, health care, it's about giving people choices rather about telling people how to solve this own problems. the trouble is that's not what's communicated to voters. >> david ignatius has a question. david. >> i want to ask whether you think this problem of politics of nostalgia really can change before millennials themselves become dominant in the two political parties and whether you see any sign of interesting
new millennial personalities emerging in either party who could speak in a different voice, not nostalgic but looking forward. >> it's a great question. there is a generation of people between baby boomers and millennials, we're always forgotten but i'm one of those people. in the republican party there is a generation of politicians who are in that range, people now in their 40s, maybe 50s who, you know, neither 70 nor 30 but comfortable in the 21st century, paul ryan, ben sasse, marco rubio. i think those people have a lot to offer the country at this point, because they are at home in the 21st century. their response to looking around this country is not to say i don't recognize my country. they are in a place where they understand how american life functions now. i do think that generation, that rising generation is actually reasonably strong on the right. there's less of it on the left because democrats have been in power for the last eight years. they have all been taken up in the administration. i think you'll see that in both
parties. so even before the millennials quite rise to the level of being political leaders, there's some hope on this front. >> that's a good note to end on, a hopeful one front. >> hopeful note to end on. the book is the fractured republic. thank you very much. and still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> people say to me, you are going after trump. i say you bet i am because i don't want what he is saying to go unanswered. honestly. here is a person running for president who calls in to shows and just basically says whatever the thought of the day might be. >> clinton opens a new line of attack against donald trump and gets some help from senator elizabeth warren to just drive it home just a bit. stay with "morning joe." we are back.
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up next, demonstrations turn violent outside a donald trump trally in new mexico. do scenes like this hurt or help the presumptive republican nominee? hallie jackson was at that rally and joins us from the campaign
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good morning everyone. it's wednesday, may 25. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner and washington columnist and associated editor for the
washington post david ignaceous. a lot of stories. where to begin? >> bill cosby going to be facing trial. if you have flown over the past couple of months especially in chicago you'll see that the tsa is shaking things up. people missing flights. >> i was at o'hare two weeks ago and i thought they had evacuated the terminal it was so crowded. it was the security line. >> anything else? >> the warriors lost last night. they are one loss away from being eliminated. >> last night donald trump
easily won the washington state primary pulling him within 40 delegates of clinching the nomination. i can hear a pickup truck. that was overshadowed by a violent night in albuquerque. anti-donald trump protesters clashed with police outside the presumptive nominee's rally last night in new mexico. some of the crowd waved mexican flags while others set fires and more chanted obscenities. things escalated when protesters threw rocks at officers who used smoke canisters and what appeared to be pepper spray. the police department says several officers were treated for injuries. trump had reportedly left the area by the time the clashes escalated on his way to los angeles where he will hold a major fundraiser.
inside the convention center protesters interrupted the event where 8,000 turned out to hear him speak. at the rally trump spent a lot of time -- >> does anybody question if this just helps donald trump? >> his opponents play right into his hands. >> absolutely. >> it's a good way to do it because he is talking about the disorder and these are the type of people. >> it plays to the sense of lawlessness that trump will say he has restored. >> it's the 1968 thing.
order versus chaos. remember chicago with the cancelled speech and wall to wall coverage. >> he was on every network all night long. at the rally trump spent a lot of time responding to hillary clinton's attack from earlier in the day where she seized from comments in 2006 where he says he hopes the housing market would crash so he could take advantage and buy. here is the web ad. trump's response. >> this is an economy that can't find the bottom of bad news. >> ten years saving gone. >> biggest crash that you have had in the united states. >> i sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy. if there is a bubble burst you can make a lot of money.
>> he actually said he was hoping for the crash that caused hard working families in california and across america to lose their homes because he thought he could take advantage of it to make some money for himself. and now he says he wants to roll back the financial regulations that we have imposed on wall street to let them run wild again. you and i together, we are not going to let him bankrupt america. and he has experience in bankruptcy. >> i see this low life puts on an ad, did you know that donald trump was rooting against housing because he wants housing to go down because he wanted to buy and got some clip where i'm saying if it goes down i'm going
to buy. i'm a businessman. that's what i'm supposed to do. if she did it she would want to buy at the top. i feel badly for everybody. what am i going to do? i'm in business. she goes and donald trump is a terrible person. and he wanted to buy housing when it was at a low point. who the hell doesn't? who doesn't? >> rolls off his back. >> as our senior economic correspondent. >> i want to buy low. wanting to buy low and rooting for it all to go down so people lose houses are slightly different things. >> in the clip there, through any onus that donald trump shorted the market? >> no evidence he did anything actually. in his unplugged life before running for anything he was
asked a question and he said i am rooting for it to go down. >> we don't know if he bought. >> then elizabeth warren got into the act giving a blistering critique of donald trump's position on the housing and financial markets. this, of course, is an issue near and dear to her heart and her platform. it was laden with insults and withering trump style mockery. >> what kind of a man roots for people to get thrown out of their house? what kind of man roots for people to get thrown out of their jobs, to root for people to lose their pensions, to root for two little girls in clark county to end up living out of a van? what kind of a man does that? i'll tell you what kind of a man does that. it is a man who cares about no one but himself, a small,
insecure money grubber who doesn't care who gets hurt so long as he makes a profit off it. donald trump is worried about helping poor little wall street. let me find the world's smallest violin to play a sad, sad song. >> note to clinton campaign, please give her what she wants. >> she is better at this than most -- >> come on now. >> headline from national review may 27, 2015. i heard this and so headline elizabeth warren bought foreclosed homes to make a quick profit. may 27 before the crash she blamed on speculators she made a bundle.
>> did she hope i hope that they foreclose? i think that is the bigger -- >> i think the problem here, trump was making fairly decent sense but inhume anity for rooting for it that is jarring. i don't think anybody has said that in politics. >> the way he tried to walk it back the other night was what you said. i think when you go back to what he said in '05 and '06 that was ugly. >> the thing is they are not going to turn donald trump into mitt romney. that's what they are trying to do. i understand why they are trying to do it. they are not going to do it because he is a man without shame. of course i gave money to hillary clinton. republicans, she was in power. >> of course, i have a car
elevate e elevator. i need one. >> elizabeth warren's attack was searing. >> people who like elizabeth warren -- >> you like hillary clinton. you are for hillary clinton. >> i think elizabeth warren will be a great wingman for hillary clinton when we get into this campaign because she can say the stuff that hillary clinton really can't. i think it resonates. >> it's just like when marco rubio insulted donald trump. >> totally different scenario. >> let's just look -- >> didn't insult over housing investments. it was over something else. >> it did get personal. >> let's look at attacking mitt romney versus attacking donald trump. one is a guy who is a target, the entire organization became brittle when it happened.
the other ran right to the attacks and started throwing arrows back. >> i still think that trump because he has refused to release his taxes is going to be a sitting target that people would be able to chip away at. every week a new small revelation. turns out he didn't pay taxes in the '70s. we are learning more. >> what impact do you think that will have? >> donald trump will go i'm a great businessman. i use every law i can in my favor. >> just as in this video clip he will say i don't root for people to get ruined but i'm a businessman. when the market goes down i buy. people take that way. i didn't pay taxes because i watched that. i just think this is going to be
a continual drum beat as reporting that the press is out there looking at this stuff right now. i promise you. we are going to get many more of these. i can't imagine that the dismissals will -- >> you know what trump supporters do best? >> we learn that from donald. >> he is going to pay the smallest amount possible which the american people understand. every deduction possible he fights for every dollar. that is the mindset he wanted to bring. >> his answer to any business question of course i took advantage to do better for my business. >> if joe is right and he can brush this off with this explanation then why doesn't he release them? why not just release and say exactly what you said he would
say? i think you are going to find out he pays no taxes. >> i don't this can he pays. >> a lot more to get to. you need to stop making fun of me about elizabeth warren. hold on. let me say it. you want me to say stop bringing her name up. what we saw there in those sound bytes framing -- >> attacking -- >> donald trump's comments in the ad is elizabeth warren speaking from the heart, speaking with passion, speaking on something that she feels deeply within her soul. hillary clinton speaking correctly with a lot of help from her campaign and words that she came up with. they need her. i hope they give her whatever she wants. >> in fairness to hillary clinton she has to do it one way as presumptive nominee and elizabeth warren can do what she
does. elizabeth warren is great at that. >> she is out making speeches like that and on twitter. she is on board. she is going after trump. >> do you think -- first of l i would never make if fun of you, i have too much respect for you. do you think elizabeth warren is an effective -- is going to draw blood from donald trump? >> i don't think she'll -- >> it's like a cult. >> she is going to attack everybody. i don't think they will make her a running mate. i think she can do what she is doing right now. >> we did a report where the clinton campaign was on notice about her effectiveness in consideration had risen.
she is from state run by republican governor. if she were vice president you get republican replacement in the senate. >> let's not get carried away. >> to your point, people in the clinton's orbit are aware of how good she is. still ahead on show, hallie jackson takes a trip back to the '90s. who would want to do that? and the donald trump campaign -- for her it would be a new thing. bernie sanders hangs tough rallies thousands and thousands in california. despite his popularity why he nor elizabeth warren are likely to be hillary clinton's running mate. bill karens after a violent night in kansas. >> they danced around dodge city population of 30,000. there were big ones. we had 33 reports of tornadoes. some called elephant trunk or cone tornadoes.
sometimes we had two at one time. storm chasers were out there. no trees in western kansas so you get excellent visibility. that one did take out a barn. you can see the debris flying around. we did hear about one rogue tornado in oklahoma last night that did take one life. we will bring you those pictures when we get them in. it was isolated. the worst weather is in arkansas. little rock thunderstorm heading your way. tulsa big thunderstorm to your north. interstate 44 is not fun. we had overnight flooding in oklahoma. careful on the roads. today 17 million people at risk of severe storms. isolated tornadoes from minneapolis to kansas to st. louis to springfield. the other weather story, summer has arrived. it has pushed into the mid atlantic and northeast for the first time this spring.
90 in new york city. it is going to stay with us. thursday d.c. 88 degrees. cool weather is in the west where you had a warm spring now flip the script and you are on the cool side right through memorial day weekend. new york city ready for the first 90 degree day of early summer season. you're watching "morning joe." cancer... we don't want to think about it. but i had to. because, you see i was traveling, i was enjoying life, i was working... it was too long since my last pap. when i was finally tested, we thought i might have cervical cancer. after worrying - no cancer. i was lucky. women... please get a pap test to check for cervical cancer. and get the inside knowledge about gynecologic cancers. for you and the people who care about you. with usaa is awesome. homeowners insurance life insurance automobile insurance
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while i'm running for office what democracy means to me is i have to convince you to vote for me. if some of you don't vote for me i can live with it. what i will not accept is if
somebody runs against me and buys the election by putting billions of dollars into a campaign. >> so explain to us what happened. >> what happened was so washington state they had a contest and bernie won. won big. >> so he won washington. >> but then they decided to vote again and hillary won. >> wait. i'm confused. so who won washington? >> bernie won washington. >> hillary did but that was last night. they had one before. >> bernie won the first one. >> that's a good system. >> what happened? >> you hear the republicans going we are going to try to change our system to make it better. that's what they did four years
ago and gave them donald trump. every time they try to rig a system to get a result they want. this time to help jeb bush. >> i'm so impressed by the fact that the votes are placed, delegates are awarded and more people voted in the primary even though the vote didn't count at all. more people voted in the primary. >> a lot of people smoke pot in washington state. i didn't say there was anything wrong with that other than it makes you dumb. it makes people offended when i say that. >> so let's go to charts. what is the betting line look like as it comes to vice presidents? >> we will talk about vice presidents. >> the general election. >> you want torevisit that i will bring you a chart next
time. >> everybody is wrong. let's start with the republican side because the market has a stronger view of this and much to my surprise it has newt gingrich at 31% chance. >> you have been saying this since reagan's funeral. >> gingrich would be the oldest vice president in history at the age of 73, older than biden. anybody know who the oldest vice president in history was? >> it wasn't cheney? >> so we have gingrich on top and then the senator from iowa who has been mentioned a lot. and then a bunch of -- >> martinez. >> she is off the list.
>> and look the one thing to remember about all of this is at 31% that is a one in three chance so you have probability that it is somebody else. i find these things hard to speculate about. dems is more confusing because market has a different view. so there are four people who are clustered in this top tier. at relatively small percentages. you have the secretary of hud. tim cane from virginia. elizabeth warren. >> not going to happen. >> bernie sanders not going to happen. so there you go. i think the party is so split that the only way to bring it together in a meaningful way is bernie sanders as vp. >> if you look at any data
points party was more split in 2008 than today. >> the data points i looked at were showing 65% of democrats saying they were going to support hillary clinton. >> so there were three more names in the list? >> cory booker. >> let's do one last chart on the general election. the betting markets have had a clear view about this all the way back. so if they are wrong you can dismiss them forever but they have been consistent and strong on the side of the democrat winning. even after all the issues of the last couple of weeks in terms of polls and so on 65% still predict that democratic will be
elected. you can see as you look through the timing how the republicans have faired which is as donald trump became more likely as an establishment candidate and less likely the republicans chances declined until the most recent time when the polls have tightened. >> the elections tend to be much closer than 65/35. i understand that but i'm saying there are institutional issues, demographic issues. republican parties coalescing around trump faster. it does seem like we are had -- >> what odds on trump? >> if i can bet on trump 46, 47, something like that. >> almost even money. >> that's not really almost. i think 46 is probably close to even. >> is it fair to say that these numbers have been wrong over the last year?
i remember early trump numbers were almost nonexistent and projection models. >> the betting markets are not perfect. they have predicted the ultimate outcome very well. early on they did not take trump seriously. >> dead wrong on the republican side. >> in fairness they flipped around back about the time of the nevada primary and were consistently trump after that. >> still to come, the taliban under pressure. the inside story of how the u.s. tracked and killed second top leader in less than a year and why pakistan and the u.s. are at odds over whether this helps or hurts the peace process. 7 it takes a lot of work... to run this business. but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste.
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. coming up on "morning joe," donald trump goes down the conspiracy road again fraum fringe to front page news when hallie jackson joins us live.
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since 2000 the number of people on food stamps in new mexico has tripled. we have to get your governor to get going. she has to do a better job. your governor has got to do a better job. she is not doing the job. maybe i'll run for governor of new mexico. i'll get this place going. she's not doing the job.
here is a beauty you can all love. syrian refugees are being relocated in large numbers to new mexico. if i was governor that wouldn't be happening. >> that is such a -- >> that's donald trump attacking the female hispanic governor from a swing state the republicans should win if they -- >> at least she is a weak powerless governor. wait a second, she is the chair person for the republican governor's association. >> joining us now. >> all the people you want to attack if you don't want to be president of the united states. >> hallie jackson, you were at the trump rally. set the scene for us. >>. >> reporter: the governor martinez attacks were new for
him. you hit the nail on the head. she is somebody whose name has been mentioned by at least one campaign source as possibly somebody who they might be interested in as a vice presidential candidate. that looks like it is not going to happen given trump's comments but clear that they understand where they need to fill gaps with perceived vulnerability. many members of the latino community coming out to protest donald trump's rally last night. it started off really peaceful. the demonstrations happening outside what we have seen before at trump events. protests at all of this. what was unusual was what happened. there was a bottleneck of trump supporters trying to get out. police were blocking the doors of the convention center because demonstrators were trying to storm their way in throwing rocks. apparently deploying pellet guns. you saw protesters throwing rocks, throwing bottles at
officers on horse back. officers using pepper spray. a lot happening last night in what you saw as escalation of the protests. it was not at the level of chicago or southern california. we can tell you at least one person has been arrested according to officers and several personnel had to be treated for injuries after being hit by rocks. all of this comes as donald trump has gone after hillary clinton. he did so last night at that rally and did so in the washington post when asked about that theory involving the death of clinton aid vince foster. we took a look now because that is not the first time donald trump brought up discressed theory or responded to one. here is a look at his history with conspiracy theories. >> look at this crowd. >> reporter: donald trump's latest forainto the fringe questioning the death of vince foster. trump now calling widely debunked theories of foul play
very serious telling the "washington post" it is very fishy. >> you think stuff i said about her is bad. >> foster's death ruled suicide by independent investigation. this far from the first time trump has dabbled in the discrediting. >> it is a logical continuation of things donald trump has been talking about. >> remember birther claims against president obama? trump led the movement that prompted the president to release his long form birth certificate and unleash on trump flmpt and we can get back to focussing on the issues that matter like did we fake the moon landing? >> the problem for donald trump is that now he needs to win over a broader swath of the electorate and this is simply speaking to the converted. as candidate trump he has only turned up the volume making
mainstream theories other politicians don't touch. when ted cruz was in the race trump speculated about a rumor linking cruz's father to jfk's assassination. >> the fact that he didn't deny the picture. i ask what was that about? >> typical for trump, raising the question, letting it hang for someone else to answer. >> this is nuts. >> my dad killed jfk. he is secretly elvis. >> this campaign when asked about the death of supreme court justice antonin scalia trump repeated another rumor. >> they say they found a pillow on his face which is unusual place to find a pillow. >> officials say scalia died of natural causes. the conspiracy theories can dominate for days like when trump said this about the
reaction of muslim americans to 9/11. >> i watch in jersey city new jersey where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. >> independent fact checkers say that is just not true but just not stopping trump. trump now coming under fire from democratic opponents for talking about some of these conspiracy theories. he said he is simply responding to questions posed by others and doesn't bring it up on the campaign trail. >> hallie jackson, thank you. that kind of sums it all up. joining us now for political round table is author and "new york times" columnist -- >> let him say it. >> and brian sullivan is with us, too.
>> easy. >> the piece entitled trump taps into anxiety of american white males talk about that and brian will take a look at the economic motions coming out of that. >> it is clear now that these coalitions that are forming, donald trump can only win if he continues to do well with white men and some others, maybe people the white men know. and hillary clinton is building a coalition of groups that have seen their freedoms and resources, women minorities, immigrants. and for donald trump to be as high as he is he may not be as bad a strategy as we all assume. >> we all assumed since mitt romney lost that unless you get 35% of hispanic votes and at least double digits with black americans you are going to lose. donald trump is doubling down on white males. >> not a great long term
strategy but may be good enough for right now. i think the question it raises is these white men who need to make a decision about being part of a coalition of resentment need to make a decision about whether they feel in the next america that is coming they are being joined on stage by women and minorities or whether they feel they are being replaced. if you dig into poll numbers there is a lot of emotion around feeling replaced rather than joy and feel they are losing the country. america is becoming too feminine. the government worries too much about black people. there is feeling of being shoved aside. i think the election will turn on whether that group of people feel joined or replaced. >> you feel too feminine. >> i think there is bigger problems here for republican party long term. i will ignore that. it is not just that he will rely
on white men, he is not investing in the data operations of the republican party and voter contact operations. he will give big speeches. one of the most confounding things. this might and could work. there is a chance but if you are thinking long term for the republican party everything he is doing could be crippling in cycles to come. >> maybe the most short termest human being. in 2004 he was the god father of this microtarget s. he did it using 2004 techniques but he did it because it was a base election. he knew we are not going to win in the middle. we are going to get our people to come out. this is the type of election you have to microtarget more than any other. trump is not doing it. >> interesting that we talk
about this now because trends from economic perspective have been happening for 30 years. men in the work force have been declining since 1972. the peak year of u.s. manufacturing was 1979. we go back to this nostalgic. this is just the culmination of years. what happened after the financial crisis i think we realized this, companies laid off thousands and millions of workers and realized that they didn't need them anymore. there is a professor at the university of southern california who is exper nmting building homes with a giant 3 d printer. construction has been a destination job for the young american male. what happens when machines and robots -- i think american men are terrified they are going to be replaced by a robot and all of these trends are -- >> someone has to build --
>> now software is thinking. >> i think we have 30 something percent not working. you go out to silicon valley. >> it was 3% in the '50s. >> you go to silicon valley and talk about what is the world you are building. very smart people are thinking about a world in which 70, 80% of people won't have work on a permanent basis. >> it's terrifying and you are right. >> i'm sure some of you saw this last night. for the first time in american history the majority of men age 18 to 34 are living with their parents and not a significant other. i'm just saying that really shows you -- >> tell your mom we say hi. >> she is watching. >> they are fully operational models of retail stores that
involve no human beings. restaurants are going fully automated. this is not like the past where the blacksmith went on to be an assembly line worker. this time i think there is a real fear. incomes are coming down because software is a lot cheaper. >> that said, there are opportunities. there is an opportunity actually entrepreneurial opportunity to be able to do so much from your garage. there is also an opportunity where somebody can make a really good living. our educational system is not set that way. we have this factor that says get great grades and go to a great college or don't go to college at all. and there is a middle ground with community colleges and votech training where you can
make really good money. >> i will leave you with this stat. yesterday snap chat valued at $20 billion. you know how many employees they have? under 30 and they are all under 30. >> on that note. >> i think part of what is happening is the shifts are so big and the election is so mean spirited and a spit contest that we are not thinking about the really, really big historical shift that would put 80% of people out of work. we can't have that conversation in the high school bar fight that we are in the middle of right now. >> thank you very much. good to see you again. been a long time. >> still ahead on "morning joe," one year, two top taliban leaders killed. inside the high tech campaign and the fight against the spring offensive. keep it right here on "morning joe." it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient.
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the taliban has appointed a successor to replace a top former leader killed in a u.s. drone strike. mansour was slain and one deputy will take over his old role. >> he kind of seems nervous. >> the wall street journal reports he was tracked using communications while he met with
his family. while traveling back through pakistan armed drones took out his white toyota corolla. confirmed killed less than a year ago his successor. the white house is hailing it as a major step in bringing peace. the interior minister says u.s. has sabotaged the peace process. the director of center on national security karen greenberg, the author of the new book rogue justice, the making of the security state which explores how law and policy were reshaped to serve the war on terror. thank you for being on board with us this morning. >> something that we have grappled with since 9:05 a.m. september 11. how are we doing 11 years later, 15 years later? >> the balancing of security and constitutional rights?
>> we are not doing as well as we should be. in the very beginning so many rights were taken away which would have been understandable and fine for a given period of time. reconstituting them has proved almost intractable. i'll give you an example. 9/11 happened 14 years ago, 15 years ago. we still haven't tried anybody for that crime. we have them in custody. we haven't tried them. that is a broken legal system. that is a broken. >> you think they should be tried in the southern district of manhattan? >> if they can be tried at guantanamo fine. it is taking forever. i don't care what court they are tried in my guest is eastern district of virginia but it doesn't matter to me. i think it matters to the american people. one thing that happened we
focussed on the balance and liberty versus security. what we missed was security versus justice. justice has taken a deep dive and that is one of many examples. >> torture. >> torture is another example. it is still on the balance of donald trump and others. what have we not learned from numerous reports that says that torture doesn't work. not only doesn't it work, if you think you have torture in your back pocket do you think compromises you doing on the ground intelligence work you need to do? >> one confounding thing of the obama administration is that they have been reluctant to look at where we misstep. they say let's move the conversation forward. let me ask you, had we had a better fuller accounting would we be in a different position today? >> yes. >> how so? >> for one thing torture and
surveillance. the obama administration has tried to do it behind the scenes. they released report after report that we may or may not know about what went wrong with surveillance. how many laws are broken? how many constitutional principles were broken? >> there is a reason it is not out. there is a reason why -- democrats love to point at republicans and say what they did -- nancy pelosi, they were all in that room and they were all saying what can you do? of course, habeas corpus, the intournament of japanese americans in 1942 forward. it is something that we do. >> it is something that we do except when you have a war that ends, when you have a war that ends like the civil war this is a war that is not going to end. it's not going to end. we have to manage it. the idea that we have not held
people accountable is extremely important. i believe more important going forward as we go into a new presidency. as we go into a war with isis. it is going to be complicated and challenging. >> i want to ask you a question about a potential president trump. a few months ago i rang up a bunch of top legal scholars and asked how much are you afraid of an author tar yn personality becoming presidency. everybody said in the way foundation of the rule of law you described could be leveraged in a dangerous way in a new direction by president trump. can you talk about how the foundation you described could be exploited? >> if you want to look at our founding fathers and think about what they were protecting against, a certain kind of tyranny and lack of respect for liberties, now we have a general
warrant which is basically warrantless surveillance and warrantless search. now we have with obama and with bush executive that can order detention without judicial process and order targeted killings. we have trust me government at the highest level of danger. and so if you have somebody in power for trust me government and you have these foundations that have not been pushed back sufficiently against then you are in trouble. >> the book is rogue justice. thank you very much. up next -- >> you said top legal scholars. you didn't get a call? >> i got a busy signal. >> okay. >> up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? or, "i'm hungry." what if your body said something else might be wrong? gynecologic cancers - cervical, ovarian and uterine cancers - have symptoms. so pay attention.
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medina ridge the chosin reservoir these are places history will never forget but more important are the faces we will always remember. ♪ welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. what did you learn? >> it's a fashion trend that you started about nine years ago against the will of management and now it is like you have a perfect match right over there. just go and stop interrupting. look at this. >> we did not coordinate. >> i wear this every day. look at this right here. >> what did we learn? >> i'm going to wait for the camera to get back on me. i learn we will be replaced by robots in a matter of years. >> what did you learn?
>> that this is the time to invest in conspiracy theory company stock. >> what are we going to learn today? >> i learned nine years ago i have to thank you for being able to dress this way. it is comfortable. >> i'm going to pajamas next. >> next time steve kornacki just sprinkle cookies. just let it fall on your sweater and you have a perfect match. >> steve kornacki picks up the coverage right now. good morning. i'm steve kornacki. the count down continues. 167 days until the election. topping our agenda chaos in new mexico. violent protests create a frightening scene outside a donald trump rally last night in albuquerque some activists throwing rocks at police and then used whatpp

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