Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20190513

We have White House Reporter from the Associated Press jonathan lemire, stormer chief of staff for Hillary Clintons president ial president ial campaign, adrienne elrod, an msnbc contributor and Michael Steele is with us. Good to have you all. Lets jump into the news. The stock market is bracing for another bump y ride as u. S. And chinese negotiators appear far apart on President Trumps trade war. Over the weekend the president tweeted saying we are right where we want to be with china. 200 billion in tariffs are taxes on working class and middleclass americans. Maybe they dont care but thats a lot of money. This is where we need journalists. The president has been lying nonstop saying china would pay for tariffs, just look mexico would pay for the wall. We found out the president is lying, mexico is not paying for the wall and the American People need to know that this is a tax increase on them. Take a listen. Our country can take in 120 billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by china, not by us. A lot of people try to say its paid for by us. But, lalarry, that isnt tru. It not china that pay tariffs, its the American Companies that pay a tax increase and often passes it on to u. S. Consumers. Fair enough. Both sides will pay in these things. If its a tariff on goods coming into the country, the chinese arent paying. No, but the chinese will suffer gdp losses and so forth with respect to a diminishing export market and goods that they may need for their own i understand that. But the president says china pays the tariffs. They may suffer consequences but its u. S. Businesses and u. S. Consumes ars who pay, correct . To some extent. I dont disagree with that. Both sides will suffer on this. Thats incredible. And Goldman Sachs says the tariffs have fallen entirely on u. S. Businesses and households. And he actually told the truth and that is that every time that donald trump raises tariffs, that is paid for by working class americans when they go to the grocery store, working class and middleclass americans when they go to walmart, when they go to target, whenever they go out and shop, American Farmers getting hammered by this, Small Business owns are getting hammered by this. Employers all across america hammered and there you even have a republican congressman saying that the president is lying. These are trump taxes. Now hes just said hes raised taxes on American Consumers 200 billion. Yeah, joe. In a is certainly all correct. The fact is nobody wents from a tariff war. We are going to suffer from this tariff war. I have some charts that i might show you later. Its not even just the taxes which get paid, which are now raised to 25 , but it creates pricing umbrella for other businesses to raise their prices and charge us more. You end up with jobs lost and donald trump is creating a textbook case for economists who for a hundred years have explained how it helps both sides of trade and the economy and hes showing how tur tailing trade hurts the economy. The stock market is drumms favorite barometer and even it doesnt seem to think that what donald trump is doing makes any economic sense. Siim so amused when people come up to me and say you use to be a republican and well, im still these people have adopted overnight actually extraordinarily liberal views on massive federal spending, shutting down borders, closed borders, which used to be that union bosses wanted borders closed. Driveup wages. So all of this stuff, michael, that you and i and republicans and conservatives believed in our entire life, balanced budget, free trade, Ronald Reagans belief of a nation of immigrants. Donald trump has completely trashed that and these mindless sycophants, not just in congress but some people come up to me and are like why arent you a republican anymore . Theyve all had brain transplants and theyre thinking like liberals. Its crazy it is crazy. The bottom line, joe, and you put your finger on the pull of it, is these those are rationalizing their own shift toward donald trump. They have to somehow justify where they stand now. They look at you, me, many of us and they go, well, you changed. No, im still a free trader. I believe in free markets. I still believe in the power of an open society that embraces immigration as republicans once did. That believed in assimilation and lower taxes and cutting debt and deficits. They have to rationalize that, my friend. Everybody in this sycophantic world of tramp as they also have to rationalize the race imof they have to rationalize racism left and right, rashally ince e incensiincens insensitive remarks. You hardly ever hear them that complain about tir i was. So it with neonazis and the rest of us. And at last within or two will remember what it was look when they were conservatives like me. About . I think the war is still going on. Ibeing conservative man being conservative. They doesnt. But tell me, is there a growing sort of resentment of donald trump when it comes to tear i was . Are we going at some point when shes conservatives finally remember who they are . I do admire your fighting spirit on that island, joe. I would far rather be the only conserve tiff on this. There are certainly very few moments where the president is willing to cross the president. Sometime onand think it would be unroolistic to expect a fullon roo volt this. Polling 80, 90 among rabs. There will be some messages widespread effort to try to change the presss mind. We have to see who in this got he thinks he can get away and so on, thaft needs to be addressed. But this is going nrm fellow rabs, but republicans who are highing relax in 020. If the chinese ro pr who voted for the president and are needed given in 2020. If the pot tiks chang, might so pant in really, egot it wrong on the bored are obviously the lyft has prin. Well, liberal immigration policies nan nm when it comes to imgrgs in johnson, rag rag sflsh everybody rab, every conservative i know in washington, and a half. In they turned relief on reconsistent, spending. We blame it will sgsso take the record debt, theyll take the record Big Government republicanism, not a conservative left out there. But if there is, i man, hi, how are you doing . Well see you in a couple of years. But i dont see it. I used to think that there were but things that im reading now online, theyre all lining up blindly behind. And there, theyre defending perjury, massive deficits, theyre depending protectionism. Good luck. I dont know why donald trump is worth this to him or why its prt to pao. There as right, this as the lyft and then this as this evening fch in the next lbs. And, by the way and as i mean it, yeah. Sfp or whoever wents the democrat being nomination, all the more you nrm democratic votes are has joe biden at 46 . S that up tn points from their poll be in at 15 and then senator kwp budget judge kur, brock with andrewian at 2. In so adrienne this he is torically that are incredibly important states. I i. The real pratt being. Far more divrs than the 1 hoose pcht sfrchl sfrrm i mean, this poll is huge for joe biden. Youve got a field 18 candidates. I dont know if the entire pool candidate was pooled for thissing issing inwhat was technically surprising to me also about this kol is where cory booker is. This is a stay that core oo become ooze. The fact in a its proling around 4 or 5, is a big surprise to me. Sork is jo ffrp but those polls do ma m steve rat are in noosh recall. And it max this many fool special. And a morse but it makes them fool smart. On happen. And one guy sitting at 46 bunds, your friends people who have been sitting onsfp mean i can support joe biden i dont know. Mabb will pb hewill have good sfwrsht for bundlers and that hp fund racecam pans . Clearly biden is, cuting a strategy that get out of the go sfrfrm and thereby dau in all the people on the sidelines. You may have seen in the Washington Post how many people are on the sidelines, watching and waiting. I would say it has not yet quite happened in my world. There are moyers in todo double. I dont know that many who have the bum play book of looking for a fresh new face, nor generation. Then the largest percentage of them are still watch to see frankly if the biden phenomenon is real because it is still early. It is meaningful poll. Biden as got will the to prove whe whp who kind of came um with a name for him, oh, it was owe good we is Elizabeth Warren to the news as well. President trump has taken particular interest in this years 4th of July Celebration in the nations capital. The Washington Post reports the president has made changes to more than half a century tradition moving the mierks display from its usual spot on pa thomas will. Actress felicity toughman is due back in court today shes more than one of a dz parents that have tlood foonote pork hefrts who between them paid millions to get their children into disparate colleges. 115,000 was paid to correct hour spend more than 18 hundred dollars bind bars. What is happened to aunt bucky . She doesnt want to add something she didnt stan at a familiar her child and two pictures and picture of this many at that looked look they were rowers when they werin sta. Gram pop doesnt nope th thisgame a but mika said this was one of the best gils shes seen. Last night, decisive gave they i dont know the guatemala tood in the final seconds of regulation in toronto. Its off, toronto has won that is kind of cool. If. And the rop morse mr in. So mika last night, she sees this, okay . She slows her about are you commonwealth down on her moenm. From this is one of the most, sighting finals ive seen since layer oo bird told thefrom f pmt f sflm but at that we been pb prals as con of himself condition and its a good series and setting up a pretty good look at that. Organization thats so fun. S that really great. S that sue. Liverpool ended up in snfbt if you in. Woof yet to win a prem why are League Championship going back to 92 when the stat. Store. And they came up shorepoint ot al roar prrm sfrrmt ever not prp nrm prp who no in and john nan. It was be feels like this final hot got it on trab frb of the twhorp so far all nave done is one since visiting the oval office. Were looking forward to the tweet from the president taking credit. Im wondering why he hasnt taken taken credit pore the explosive run outlook. We expect Mitch Moreland to be elected as o for this weekend where the top eye can frm for President Trumps le. Good morning to you, mookia. Had you. Woo we had ep being cares from the and couple went out to a do you mean wrm wrp. We are thankfulfully going dry. In nm. So the let go into the forecast. Still nor dreary day in if, a for the plo. Floor and nchblt snm snufrmt and otherwise, drying out in the south, and in many areas of the east, it will warm up significantly by next weekend. New york city, yesterday was about as ugly as it gets. Today is not going to be much better with steady rain and chilly temperatures all afternoon noon. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Ng joe. Well be right back. Every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. The United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. 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The ascend summit, a pretty extraordinary event over tn hours. Absolutely. A great week for know your value and it continues. We kicked off the inaugural ascent summit, getting women into sea suites on board. Kathy kay, claire schiffman, inmaisie. So women are succeeding and moving ahead. America actually, the hans what far better record about getting corporate boards and a lot of our european allies. But what do we need to do, what do women need to do to actually get in leader slt slip rolls . Welfare reform, the um. We had a top, top leader at ascend, whomentorred in three Women Leaders at accent yur neeley had to psh them forward and got them to pla and we really worked to uncracking that with some of the top ledders and Colombia Business School took part in this. Are. Data and also reality issues and it was a fascinating day. Arent finding that the cultural issues are more of a challenge, lets say, if your generation, Millennial Women coming into the workforce dont have the seam reservations as lets say women in their late 30s, 40s, 50s, they come in and they expect to be successful and are far less willing to take no for an answer. And that poses some other problems. Its great bring that up bus we had an incredible rollout as well of my new look and and how they know their value. How they balance their pay with their male counterparts while alsoing great starting off their career. Its a lot of meksed messages and well really kind of guide women through the first few jobs you can find out more been that book at know becoming dram, becoming a best selling author. She made her success. American dream. Wait until you get all the information on know your value. Com, for more and this its absolutely fascinating this weekend that donald trump had prshed don mcgahn to come out immediately and say he did mott believe that the president , he is if and what happened in the sort of large pba spack nfb but there as nothing in here from don mcgahn that nch snchl say, hey, would you guys consider kprp. This shows the advantage the white house had where theyre srt of loining up sr galts, in that krlooked at the report and rool oedsomebody as if did kp lo f about n unstd snchl and start sending przs sr sfp the julianna had planned o go there on sort of a fact finding persian gulf about how damaging nft was in there f going noochtd, can sls himself trp in n in an vgs and Going Forward in a cam pan, you nope, to get a ffd on thereof sides. It sooms leeb the iish snvlt th he thought it was inappropriate for him to and that,s nnk in trying to dpt the fwrchtd in a srt the prz try thoochl to vgt Hillary Clinton. And. In not certainly that a will the no. But the prz was trying to got hmm tom. In. In. Bar. In where nfrmt donald trump didnt ask hmm the first, i want to read aberman as tweet from sat. Prp cant. In quitenm ins did pratt as much this is just the latest chapter. What happened . Michael is exact lit right. If nm to relitigate and probably but also going to no to o opponent. This trip fch kran ychblt and what role biden f frm the rabs were extend money n in but some might think it proper that he was going over there. He told that president was he was going and was exit. Snmt sfchlt. Snfrm that he no longer was, claiming it was sm snchl now the wut fwhrmt but for who may be goingoff. Even if f, hoding the prs snmtd. Have Foreign Governments actually do Opposition Research for donald trump and his reelection bid . And of course all of this cop is. In. It just af usual flsh bully pulpit finl this. In the. Nmt nmt f. I innn obviously that would have been looked at very differently. In June Julianne zwrchlt stwrchlt, n it snp s that what v vgs. In prague. The idea of nm was informn so much interest in the prb n it will. Nm, looking pore information. Un. F north korea has conducted two series of missile tests in the past week and a half. Three in the past month, or a donald trump put it on friday, very standard stuff. Well go around with richard haas, ahead on morning joe. Introducing the firstofitskind lexus ux and ux f sport. Also available in hybrid allwheeldrive. Lease the 2019 ux 200 for 329 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. I felt i couldnt be at my best wifor my family. C, in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. I faced reminders of my hep c every day. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Mavyret is the only 8week cure for all common types of hep c. 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Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Joining us now, the president on the council on Foreign Relations and author of the world in disarray, richard haas. Lets talk china right now. What does it look like . Well take a step back, joe. In the Foreign Policy business, this has probably been the relationship where things have deteriorated more quickly than any other relationship we have. The last two, three years things have headed south to a degree and at a speed that i literally have not seen in my career. This is the most significant relationship of the 21st century. The principle pa. During the cold war key so are as jb support experience either on what hoose trying to do. Youre not getting it from the trns to end sbs dis. This is their basic tight al graphs trn your. Probably the lad. I dont know if that are. Until. In chlgz baufzins ive had read and heard, the Chinese People like trump okay. They relate to drm in a way that he th dont react to for al her in ascent to the presidency because they understand he respect strong men and president xi just made himself present for live in china. They doesnt have to worry about donald trump complaining about that or their oppressive measures. Talk about that a lit. And let it just how how serious is this rp tur between the ho . Youre right in your first point, the idea that the chinese like trump. They like oneonone diplomacy. Weve had limited kwop raegs on korea. There no we are not hatch hammering them on human rights, on them motor vehicling away from ka prp here the economic confront as. Th this. In because woo cant. Sflachblt taiwan, north can yb with the trump strags is someone sw swrp. M n tald. In. In because they are not going to teak the political wrising pg wore going. And china is not going to back away from controlling th r theirf theirfrm. Bess class, the entrepreneurial class and they are oddly rooting for trump. They would look to have norchl have are fwrofr mr. Mmm two lines at halftime will cost the average m if trump goes had to, tipped has to to. N and the mott just an sfrp. Would cost 2. 2 approximately nm but. In lets look at a specific example of a product where tariffs have been put on. This doesnt root to the south korea. These are watch againing 18. Proos of kachl pa shoon. In snchl from there they basically went pro. From by the way, it not zwrs sfwrucht sfrcht specific snmt sfwhchlt and contrary to what trump said, on about 10 of now we talked about the stock market opening owe are so the stock market having sfrchl, it went town about 2. 2 . It. Dr prprp as who says said in all these tweets how great the tariffs are for america and for the American Economy when you see the stock market reacting like this. So the president has indeed weighed on on this very segment this morning. He said theres no reason for the us consumer to pay the tariffs, pi if he bosnia business with a nontar i company. Will be leaving for ash is me health care nk wrnlt how, are nrchlt sfwrchlt pp. If this becomes permanently part of the kmk landscape, are. The question is were going to pay an enormous price for it and woo sfrrmt in order to be pb virtually affected by this trade wars. The last i checked we shall give subsidies to sen farms and farmers. We dont have pure hand here as well. So again, im not supporting china here he do the president seems tooned estimatend that is lo longnrn, but they know at the end of the day to the point thats been made around the table that the american consumer, particularly those in those areas where thiswindow my o o ownhack nar hif in 2017, do you parlay that into a Strong Economy . We mentioned north korea. The president p president has argued his diplomacy with kim jong un had been working because north korea hadnt done any missile teststhat ended in the last few base temperature p days. When china step in or are they happy with the status quo . Theyre perfectly happy with the statusio. Dhn likes korea so much, its glad that are two of them. They want to keep a divided peninsula. Sanctions will never deliver north korea, which is why we need at some point to decide are we going to engage in diplomacy, which is more than demanding depuckization. If the president as willing to do that, he could mack progress. At sang i think the big yes in every one these, we asking for money this is called diplomacy. This is called Foreign Policy remember than posturing. The question for this administration is it mostering to who have move think he has a 31point lead over Bernie Sanders and the rest of the field pell look democrats looking at lbting him at 46 to Bernie Sanders 15 , Kamala Harris 10, mayor pete butte judge at 8 00, cory booker at 4 00. But joe biden really resoundingly ahead in the polls, joe. Yeah. I really have been surprised, adrian at the crowding out sort of phone om none of jorge bowie. A will the of attention. Same thing dom naegs. I dont doubt hes trying to relarch himself. When somebody is sitting in 35 in iowa, New Hampshire and in the 40s in South Carolina, suddenly there is this crowding out phenomenon and political disc course, considering trump takes up 80 to 85 of political talk every day biden taking up the marriage at the con. If you are 2 or 3 , you need me to be in the top two in order to des congress, i know its may but the fact that the field is looking look this now and that joe bride bide why South Carolina is one of those states a joe biden doesnt have to win but the fact that hes doing so well with even voters. Its a very coalition, which is something that for me them services and if areparkbecause, if and some of thos candidates, sm moe who havent fegs hi nns in moneyabout how some of these candidates, especially down at the bottom of the list, would do better if this nm look it n from january to mayoff purchase 7 sfrfrm sfchlt 1 and 2 and how they could end up in the bottom tier running for president instead of running nor the senate and doing something the it is prtly 1 who believe bloo its going to be tough for him. O. In Stacey Abrams. She said she wouldnt run for nat. In the republicans win one race and suddenly theres a red wall, the democrat are antidemocratic and racist that happened it went from being a blue wall that rabs could neff crack to suddenly being racist. It just lux red tex inthe senate will frfr being run by may sees and red meks. Michael, less than a decade ago, democrats had 59 senate seats and they would have had 60 if they had won the special election. I believe it was in the beginning of twine. No r no. And nair going to let Mitch Mcconnell sfrp sfrch so that makes a lot of sense. I think the nature of the campaigning with joe biden being where he is is putting pressure on the two candidates theyre going to need to be credible. Beyond whats sea pap. Can how do we now take control of the government so we can restrekt a flnkt so they had to politically decide what it is they want. Do you just want the presidency . Do you want. Theyre not there yet. Thepof when they get those 10 or 12 folks on the stage with him and hes got to look to his left and right and begin to make the case against the Bernie Sanders and elizabeth attorney. How does he even pr. So this is the point that columnist entitled joy buoy is as much of a problem mabb an . Against the Republican Party that stopped and supported him. We all railroad plich mcconnell im not going to let t theae theaefrhe said who actually to hp opinion nm nm do. In or might they skru into some of these senate races and help kits fake . . And the democrat being part nrm ors did sflrngs flfrmgts but across the federal judiciary, to get conservative judges nominated and put on to all sorts of benches across the federal judiciary and that has changed american politics tore decades to come and the democrats have not come up with way to counter mcconnell in that chamber. All right. Lets take a look at mayor Pete Buttigieg. Hes talking here about identity politics. The more you know about exclusion, the more you think about belonging. And we have a crisis of belonging in this country. [ applause ] these divisive lines of thinking have even entered in into my own party. When we are told we have to chance between an auto worker and a trans woman of color, we often dewithout stopping to think that the auto worker is a trans woman of color. This is something that youre quite interested in, whether the Democratic Party will folks on identity politics rather than what theyre focusing around the kitchen table. I think thats something i heard in Pete Buttigiegs voice, this frustration that he is being criticized by some democrats out there, for not being representative of the kind of struggle of the experience the at versity that certain oppressed minority groups have stug ltd over the years. I any that sun etle look, i dont pretend to understand the struggles of of oppressed mierpt groups, but i do know if we let our divisions of color, of sexual orientation, what have you, divide us, it we went the key there, as you say, is in obama do the voters in wisconsin, iowa, minnesota, michigan, and who do they want . And the idea that someone who doesnt understand their needs and theyre very worried about that and the economy is just good enough now in these states like wisconsin and michigan that trump does have an advantage. Its a slight one because his popularity with obama trump voters as we wrote over the weekend has really been declining. Its slipped down to 66 . The economy is not great. We all know that but its good enough for a lot of these people and a lot of these people are going to pick that. Theyre going to stick with the president , the leader they know over some democrat who they may not feel understands their voice and their concerns in the end. So steve rattner, a lot of democrats have been giving back to the senate race and the desperate need for democrats to win back the senate if they want to control the judiciary. Thats been the concern of many Democratic Leaders and a lot of candidates in Middle America that the Democratic Party at times seem to be too focused on the blue check mark, too focused on identity politics, too focused on things that people in michigan, iowa, ohio, montana are not focused on. Theyre sort of focused on checkbookish oos right now pip wonder if something you heard from mayor pete is something theres a real market for in the Democratic Party rye now. I think the tone of this unfolding democratic primary has shifted a bit and i think biden had a good bit to do about it. Its much more focused today about beating trump than it is about making some philosophical point than even Free College Tuition and medicare and so on. There are obviously people on the Progressive Side of this argument and in the Democratic Party who want to make those points, both because they think theyre morally right but they think theyre better politics. But just come being back to this point you referred to, the democrats have a major dem graph being problems that exists at the senate and president ial left, which is the shift in the demographics in this country toward the blue states has made it really hard for the democrats to win. You know that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million votes. She won california by 4. 2 million, which means she lost the country by 1. 2 million vets. The way the population has shifted is a major challenge for the democrats on the president ial level and the senate level. But at the same time, Michael Steele, youve had progressives bragging for years starting in 2006 that not only has the Republican Party gone to the right but if you look at democratic senators, theyve gone to the left. Yes. Sam nunn didnt win georgia by being a progressive champion. They were moderates. Lawton childs didnt win florida by by being a progressive champion, they were moderates. Bob graham, the same thing. Get you the right candidates in the right years and youre going to get them elected. All we have to do is look at what happened in montana in 2018. I think thats going to be the central piece for the senate races. Weve got about 4 seats up on the republican side, about ten on the democrat being side. They need about four seats to flip control. And the question for the democrats strategically and politically is whether they get that. In large measure, particularly on a statewide level or basis, the country tends to see itself a little more center right or center sweet spot. I think in addition to the dem its also the cultural attitudes and kangs that seem to be consolidating a little bit more. So thats what youve got to chip at. Do you let that attitude harden in these straits or do you work and and conversation that you saw with mabb pete there he he begans and start thinking what it this is what the Democratic House did in 2018. They had moderates in virginia that, guess what, were culturally aligned with their districts. They had moderates in california that were culturally aligned with their districts in california. They had retired air force, retired army, retired marines running for office. Made a big difference. We had talked about the First Special election after trump got elected in georgia and you had somebody that raised a ton of money but did not reflect that district so much. Youve got to have candidates that reflect your districts or your states. In the house, theyve got to do the same in 2020. Well, Elizabeth Warren is arguably the most message driven candidate. She has a plan o break up facebook. Cory book are took that on. Tack a look. I dont think that a president should be running around pointing at companies and saying breaking them up without any kind of process here. Its not me and my own personal opinion about going after folks. That sound more like a donald trump thing to say im going to break up you guys. No. We need to you just compared Elizabeth Warren and donald trump. I most certainly did not. Let her discuss and deep bait her positions. We do not need a president that is going to use their own personal beliefs and tell you which companies we should break up. Bob costa, you wrote about this. Tell us more about ot the knowled knowledge. This, chang is a reminder of why the debates will matter so much in june. Every democratic candidate is signaling to the base they are to the left and aligned with the base but they all have complicated biographies and policy positions. Congressman booker goes back a long way with ceo mark zuckerberg, become it to try to address educational issues and hes saying hes not what democrat are you looking at thinking well be filling us in some court for the from day one, they would be ready to run u. S. Foreign policy . The honest answer is none of the candidates, joe, has articulated an approach to Foreign Policy or to the world. Pete buttigieg obviously served jofr seas, but joe biden is, as you suggest, the one candidate who has a weather of experience and is on the record on all sorts of issues. I actually think theres space there and im hoping they talk about it. Theyre going to have to prove that theyre and, by thely, i would argue things have gotten in many cases decidedly worse over the last two years. But so far at least im surprised. Or maybe not surprised because its not where the energy of the party is but i would think substantively and or iran or china trade . Weve seen some criticism about how the president has handled Vladimir Putin and russia, perhaps how hes handled the north korean elections. But youre right, this is an election being baejd in no. Some of her plans have caught on, shes imoffing how are you hearing her ideas which are w l will. In a the democrats are counting on to win become next time around. I didnt do a study of all the voters. These trips are very and being dote al. I hard Bernie Sanders be i even heard somebody in a bar in rural wisconsin say to me. He said, you know what, i like that gay guy from ohio. And i had to think for a minute, oh yeah, you meet Pete Buttigieg. I want somebody who can beat donald trump. A lot of people feel that is biden but then a lot of people are also concerned that whoever the democratic nominee is going to be that that rn issing if to theyre going to be very hard to beat. I had a woman say to me, the 10,000 lies that donald trump had told since hes been elected, theyre going to have to be prepared to take on the attacks, the frontal assaults hes already making against these potential nominees while theyre still sitting at like 8 in the polls. If. 5. Im wondering what are you hearing about the back and forth between john bolton and donald trump. John bolton obviously a hawk. Many people want to start moving on venezuela militarily, want to start moving on iran militarily. Donald trump concerned about that, trying to keep his advisers in check. Whats the latest on the tug of war there . You have john bolton, not wanting to get too out front as a walk, knowing the president s concern about that advice. So hes trying to and a half great that, lay the president out some options on venezuela, on iran and give his point of view and hawkish perspective could win over. But he sees a vacuum, knowing that hes not totally fluid in terms of where he wants to go on Foreign Policy, especially as these so bogged down in the u. S. china parade negotiations. You have bolt hovering day to da. Congress says it has the ways and means to get ahold of Donald Trumps as ittes . But will to hand over the president s returns. Also, the latest installment of mike pence religious hypocrisy. As we go to break, when asked in his interview on friday, President Trump said, quote, al fret to the icon being, boyished, fro i guess its a generational thing. I didnt get the reference. Hes kind of funny i guess and hes also the president of the United States and im surprised hes not spending more time trying to salvage this china deal. That is so good. He basically called him on and move on. Too hold for that joke, yeah. You have to be at least 45 to remember mad magazine. I did them in the car on my way to maine with my brothers. Did you do those, joe . Not a whole lot. I was looking at my baseball cards. Do what you like, but please dont keep me waiting me wait every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. The United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Ecommerce deliveries to homes noso lets promote ourke Summer Travel deal on choicehotels. Com like this surfs up. Earn a fiftydollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. Or. Badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com if your adventure keeps turning into unexpected bathroom trips you may have overactive bladder, or oab. Ohhhh. Enough already we need to see a doctor. Ask your doctor about myrbetriq® mirabegron . 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Tech so bring it to safelite. We can repair it the same day. Guaranteed. Plus with most insurance, its no cost to you. Mom really . Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Joe, as we predicted a short time ago, President Trump has just tweeted some breaking news here. Has anyone noticed that all the Boston Red Sox have done is win since coming to the white house, others have also done very well. The white house visit is becoming the opposite of being on the cover of sports illustrated. Whether the president got that idea from us or not, i give us a little credit in anticipating what he would do here. Theres nothing more than donald trump would like to do than take credit for his success. What do you mean whether. You know he watches the show. So we are just sort of lobbing that soft ball out for him to take credit for the red sox. Of course Mitch Moreland, who was just on fire all weekend. Is he again, when he tweets about moreland being acting dhs secretary, then we will know hes getting all the information. But the red sox did have a remarkable weekend. Theyre playing really well. Im not arguing with the president on that at all. By the way, we never doubted the red sox for a minute, did we . You and i stayed firm in our convince, despite being seven or eight games under. 500 in april. Last year their run to the world series started being behind in a series you and i said they would get swept in but they did the sweeping. You can tell weve been through too many august and september sweeps from the yankees. Vice president mike pence delivered the commencement address at Liberty University saturday. This is pretty extraordinary. When you warn students about the hardships that come with following their faith, former george w. Bush president writes do you supposed that pence gets his own joke . We live in a time when its become acceptable and even fashionable to ridicule and even discriminate against people of faith. I think islam hates us. Theres something there thats a tremendous hatred. And i promise you of muslims entering the United States. As you go about your daily life, just be ready because youre going to be asked not just to tolerate things that violate your faith, youre going to be asked to endorse them. Defrauding the public with ridiculous bull [ bleep ]. Of course he said all that standing next to Jerry Falwell jr. Really . Really . I know you have to be embarrassed what youre doing. Jerry falwell jr. And donald trump . And youre trying to sound like billy graham there . It doesnt work. Context is so important. With us, reverend al sharpton and the author and founder of women for women and also member of the ways and means committee, bill pascal of new jersey. Reverend al, i of course watched politics nation last night. How do you not watch in a . It like tuning in and having James Brown Like singing and moving across the stage. Im just saying that because you got to write that book on the godfather of soul. You said youre going to, right . I tweeted you back. I am going to do it and youre going to run the foreward and were going to go to one of your sets one night and do a book signing together. Yeah, its not quite the same ning as them singing sugar sugar. The way you signed off last night, what a wonderful tribute to your mother. Im wondering for some of our frnds that were busy last night and downsidnt see that, talk a that. My mother was aso single mother. She raised us on welfare, food stamps, but she never raised us to feel underprivileged. I never realized until i got to college when they told us who was underprivileged. She raised to us look up and be something, that she was expecting from us, which is why even though my politics was totally different than george bush, we could Work Together on dealing with raising expectations, because my mother who had to drop out of school in Junior High School to pick cotton in alabama, she couldnt have certain things and didnt have certain expectations. She wanted us to have that and she put that mindset in me. Nd day that i got up and do things, i do it hoping i vindicate her faith and investment in me and she expected me to become more of just part of what i was expecting of others never to achieve. Reverend al, of course my mom could not have imagined so many of the challenges that your mother had to face of day of her life, but she was born in 1932 in the middle of the great depression. And your mom sound like my mom in the respect that they were so poor, raised in dalton, georgia, was the fourth for can be of the congratulate deprg her mother, my grandma, would wash that dress every day and iron it every day and its so funny what you said about not knowing you were poor, my mom said she never had any idea that she was poor until she went to college. I guess what you just said is isnt that something about mothers setting the expectations for their children and letting them know that that are special regardless of their, ises. And we believe it. Iing about to an are why segment where you can get arl sport span thats where we have this coming together of americans from different identities. This is the best of identity politics. We appreciate each others identity, we dont have to lose our identity, but we can relate, wow, you went through that . Let me tell you what i went through and then strive to make the country better. Thats what we need in the white house. Your map ma fwr georgia georgia, black i changed my twitter feed, my bio. It probably a will feral quote before. And that it i always things up there as a alcohol ng to myself. Thats exactly what youre talking aboutat figuring ut where we come together and like you, im optimistic. Were going through some. Heard what mook pence said who came to mrk fleeing saddam husseins because of the First Amendment because you could worship your god the way you wanted to had to really it had to strike you as quite ironic that the man who is representing a president who wanted to a doesndopt a muslim religion indust registry throe campaign is choosing a man i would like to say i dont know what god youre talking about. God for us is all equal, we are all at this table, man be beauty be thats the beauty about america, it treats all its as citizens rahal willit i cannot tell you not only i love this country, i respect this country. And to understand i am not kwaul in this country and though im a contributor and it really it attacks the being it rit of this country and what youre and the presidency and the future debates coming up. You know, the president , hes just not correct when he talks about Muslim Americans, when he suggests that Muslim Americans are a threat to this country, you look at the numbers, you look at the data. Muslims in america, Muslim Americans are far more successful on average than native americans. If were talking about immigrants or even Muslim Americans born here, a higher percentage of doctors, a higher percentage of advanced degrees. Muslim americans are an extraordinarily successful dem grafb group who, guess what, this is what rag rag was talking about in himself farewell address. This is and we get the best from across the world in in great melting pot. I dont want to deny there are musless who committed terrorist acts in this country as well, just like there were whites who committed a terrorist attacks in the shooting in has to schools. According to actually the fbi themselves, immigrants generally, legal immigrants have very, very small percentage of crimes. They come to so it not on about mus lils be it about all communities generally have a deeper appreciation of this country and they really do give all that they can to this country. Thats what we need to go back to ands that remembering our humanity over our integrity. Last wook treasury mnuchin did with the requests. So two questions for you. Why . Is that has known shown no enclination to kwop rat whatsoever request any these wh whob. Ive on been working on it since february the 1st, 2017. We were in the minority, follow procedure under 6310f and the tax code. But we should remember and Steven Mnuchin should remember as our treasury secretary that 7214 in the code is even clearer. As to what happens if you do not hand over the tax returns. There are fines, there is jail, there is a this is sear i dont see business. And if i think theres an issue out there, i believe theres an issue out there thats going to break down the great numbers of people who follow mr. Trump, his base, it is this issue because what this issue is going to show is the fact in a president didnt pay his taxes and when you dont pay your taxes, somebody else has to pay more. And i think hoose going to say o people hoose been had. You mentioned jail. Who is going to jail . The treasury secretary . Im think they go have to look at 7214 to make sure they understand what happens if they dont hand over. And this may wind up in a court. This may wind up in a court. But the law is on our side, very clear, very succinct to languages and im very proud to stand behind those two pieces in the tax code. Two points, congressman. Yes, sir. First as the president likes to tay, he got of the american pop. I agree if in. They have the nine years in a shows he on paid tax in so you have this position where the Trump Justice Department is being asked to go after the trump treasury and i personally would be a little skeptical that trump would ever allow his Justice Department well, that puts us deeper into crisis then. If we dont follow the law and do not carry out what the law says. So maybe mr. Trump want to us have in his mind a battle in the street over whether the law should be followed or not. Hef i dont know forbid if that happens. But he talked about this at would you know one time. And he has to stand and follow and look be and when this find out what is in those tax once, the not guantanamo bay. And still ahead this morning, the u. S. And china appear dead locked on trade negotiations as President Trumps top economic adviser acknowledges that it is america paying for the administrations tariffs, unlike what the president said. Morning joe is back in a moment. The matters. Ar. Introducing the allnew 2019 ford ranger, its the right gear. With a terrain Management System for. This. A bash plate for. That. An electronic locking Rear Differential for. Yeah. This. Heading to the supermarket . Get any truck. Heading out here . Get the ford ranger. The only adventure gear built ford tough. We see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. 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Our country can take in 120 billion a year in tariffs, paid for mostly by china, by the way. Not by us. A lot of people try to steer it in a different direction. Ultimately, its paid largely for by china. But, larry, that isnt true. Its not china that pays tariffs. Its the american importers. The American Companies that pay what in effect is a tax increase and oftentimes, passes it on to u. S. Skmconsumers. Uh, fair enough. In fact, both sides will pay. Both sides will pay in these things. And of course but if its a tariff on goods coming into the country, the chinese arent paying. No, but the chinese will suffer gdp losses and so forth with respect to a diminishing export market and goods that they may need for their own i understand that, but the president says that china pays the tariffs. They may suffer consequences, but its u. S. Businesses and u. S. Consumers who pay, correct . Yes, to some extent, i dont agree with that. Again, both sides will suffer on this. Appreciate Chris Wallace for forcing larry kudlow to admit the president is completely lying, saying, fair enough, yeah, youre right. Joining us now, Jeffrey Sachs and author, perag khanna, his latest book, the future is asia. I want to start with dr. Sachs. You saw larry kudlow and Chris Wallace having to correct the president for his lying to the American People saying, like, you know, china will pay its like, mexico will pay for the wall. But how long will it take for American Companies and the American Consumers to feel, to see for themselves that the president is lying. So dont take it from us. Take a look at what youre paying. I think consumers are already feeling it. American farm producers are already feeling it. This so its immediate . This is an expensive way to educate the president about economics 101. He knows nothing. He has shown repeatedly his ignorance and here we are again. So, but in you know, youve got folks out in america who like the way President Trump talks. When will they actually pay and realize hes not telling them the truth . How long is the process for this effect to impact consumers to a point where they see it in their wallets . Well, again, they are seeing the tariffs that already have been put on. There were higher prices across the board for many, many chinese goods. Now, there will be more of those. There will be lower prices for american exports of Agricultural Products and other products. And in general, this is just dangerous and its playing local politics with very high stakes international economics. Theres nothing in this, other than, they got cold feet about making an agreement, because trump thought he would be attacked from the right. And thats it. Yeah, so, Jonathan Lamir, ill send it to you and you can grab the next question, but what do you think the strategy is here . Whats the positive outcome for this administration politically, for a move like this . Well, i think theyre trying to do a few things. More than anything, this is the president talking tough. Hes had these sort of hawkish views on trade. Its one of his few consistent beliefs dating back from his prepolitical career. And he spent much of his campaign sort of vilifying china. And this is his attempt to sort of act tough with them. Even though it is but hes talking tough to American Consumers and american theyre the ones getting beat up. Im certainly not debating that, mika. Yeah, he is making political points here at the expense of his voters. So perag, let me ask you this. What is chinas approach here . Can they play the long game . Can they wait him out . What sort of Economic Impact will they be facing from this trade war . They can in some areas. Lets remember that the answer to your question changes depending on the time scale. Immediately, we have seen that their exports are fallen by 200 billion. Which is double the amount to which our exports have fallen. However, they are less trade dependent than we think they are. Theyre more trade dependent than we are, but ultimately, their economy doesnt depend on it. The they have transitioned towards a services economy. And were trying to push them on ip protection and these other areas, opening their sectors. But they have been pursuing this made in china 2025 campaign to substitute for their dependency on hour high tech imports since before the trade war began. Since before trump was elected. The made in china 2025 campaign is years old and it has antecedents that are 10, 15 years old. So the number of goods they depend on us for is going down over time. And also, because we didnt join the transpacific trade agreement, so many other countries, from our own allies like canada and japan and australia, to asian allies, like south korea and others, are going to be moving in and capturing our market share in china at the same time. So, yes, long answer to your question, but they can absolutely wait it out. Its so true, actually. I was recently in china and one of the things that i learned, that they have 500,000 people that they need to get out of poverty and into employment. They are focused and thats what were going to go about. And we need to understand people that were negotiating with when were dealing with them. We cannot afford to be enemies. Whats the point of making America Great if at the end of the day, we lose all our friends, basically, all our allies. But that has been the thing that trump has done, us against them, which is why he has this imaginary thing out there saying that the chinese are going to pay, because he wants to say, we are getting them, rather than telling the truth and having us have this kind of relationship as long as he can build up in peoples mind, us against them, he dont look at the facts that youre really dealing with on the landscape. Thats exactly it. He doesnt want to make agreements with anybody. He wants us versus them. Thats why all of our Foreign Policy is antagonistic. There are no agreements, because as Richard Haass said earlier in this program, theres no diplomacy. Theres no attempt to reach an agreement. Its just to say, us, were great, were going to get them. And it doesnt work. But at the end of the day, we will loose. America will lose. Our european allies are already dealing with china. Theyre already talking with the Chinese Companies that provide 5g. Were already losing at the end of the day. We have to if we want to protect america, protect america. Do the right thing, though. This president certainly always needs a foe, whether its international or domestic. Final question to you, whats the breaking point for this administration . What is the moment you expect where they feel like they cant do this anymore and they need to make this trade war go away . Its a great question, what mika was actuallying earlier, when will america start to feel the pain. And this latest round applies to laptops and handsets. So actually a lot of American Consumers who purchase those products, lenovo are going to start to feel that in the telecom and mobile sector. And by the way, huawei just displaced apple last week as the second largest sort of mobile phone handset revenue sort of company in the world. So thats a bit more bad news, i would say, for them. Because, of course, its going to have a negative impact on American Electronics and highend exports like apple around the world, too. The breaking point in terms of the administration wanting it to go away is if, in fact, you know, if they listen to jeffs brief econn 101 lecture and realize that the pain is not going to go away by way of this new cold war and they start to resist and reject trumps policies. We dont know when that will be, but hopefully sooner rather than later. Michael steele . Yeah, i want to take you back to this idea of the long ball game for china. Because i think thats the most fascinating part of this whole narrative between china and the u. S. Right now. Given that the pressure is back at home. What do we genuinely expect the outcome to be . How do they navigate sort of the wild, wild west approach of the president coming in and just throwing tariffs on the table here and there. But also trying to create that stability at home, so that they can get those 500 Million People employed and sort of stabilized . What is a rather rocky economy for china right now. Its a great question. And theres two specific answers. One is, they maintain the strong stimulus that they have had to help to resort workers, move them around, you know, protect industries that are threatened by higher export costs or falling exports, move them into new industries, new areas, and so forth. And obviously, to backstop and buttress some of those companies that are hit the hardest. So thats one part of the strategy. The other, and this is the longterm one, where, again, we can see this from a mile away. Its what i call permanent substitution. And that is, again, they will insulate themselves as much as possible from any product categories that are volatile or subject to our political interference, whether it is the cfius process in congress or whether its trumps tariffs, and say, whatever you were buying from the u. S. , whether its semiconductors, soybeans, aircraft, lets make sure that we buy more of those now from other, more reliable trading partners. Thats what the airbus deal was about, buying more planes from france and germany, right . Now youve got tarnlg targentin brazil, canada and others able to compete with us in the soybean market. And that will most certainly be the case with semiconductors. Chinese companies will start buying those more than they already have from taiwan, south korea, and japan. Whoohoo the book is the future is asian commerce, conflict, and culture in the 21st century. Parag khanna, thank you so much for being on this morning. Now were going to get to some 2020 news amid falling buzz white house hopeful beto orourke is planning a full scale reintroduction before next months democratic president ial debate. A Campaign Adviser tells the Associated Press that orourke has entered a quiet period to build out his Campaign Infrastructure and hammer out more concrete policy plans. So far, he has only issued one on climate change. Orourke will also refine his tabletop stump speech approach, focusing on mostly rural and republican areas, with six Campaign Events a day. He also plans stepping up his National Media appearances, starting with the Rachel Maddow show and the view this week. Democratic president ial candidate and massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren was in West Virginia over the weekend to discuss the devastating effects of the opioid crisis. Warren greeted a crowd of about 150 people in kermit, West Virginia, by asking them to raise their hands if they knew someone who has battled addiction. Nearly everyone put their hands up. The lessthan400person town, which overwhelmingly voted for trump in 2016, is also home to one of the highest overdose rates in the country. Warrens Campaign Stop is one of a few geared toward reaching out to small town Republican Voters to explain her plan to end the opioid epidemic. And Democratic Montana governor Steve Bullock appears to be preparing to join the crowded field of 2020 president ial hopefuls. In a short teaser video released over the weekend, bullock touts his progressive credentials and political accomplishments while also noting that he would be the only democratic contender who won a state President Trump swept in 2016. The twoterm governor later tweeted that, quote, a big announcement is coming soon and he will be on morning joe later this week. And now to some news around the congressional investigations. Democrats in the house have taken the first step to hold a sitting president accountable for crimes they may have committed. Judiciary chairman jerry nadler along with congressman ted deutch and Eric Swalwell introduced an act on friday that would pause the statute of limitation for any federal offense committed by a sitting president. The no president is above the law act is likely an attempt to make sure that president s do not become immune to criminal charges altogether. Simply because they cannot be indicted while in office. The Justice Department has previously concluded that a sitting president is constitutionally immune from indictment and criminal prosecution. And thats sort of maybe why we are where we are right now. And special Counsel Robert Mueller is not expected to testify on capitol hill this week, as many democratic lawmakers had hoped. On friday, house judiciary chairman jerry nadler told reporters that mueller wont appear before congress this week, but added that mueller will, quote, come at some point. If necessary, we will subpoena him. So Jonathan Lamir, waiting for mueller. Ive got to say, what why isnt he, like, actually champing at the bit to get in there . I mean, his job was not to be ambiguous, was it . No, it wasnt. A few things, mika. First of all, the no president above the law act i dont think will have much traction in the senate. In terms of Robert Mueller, what we have here is a few thinks. Robert mueller, when the investigation wound down, there was talk from his spokesman that he was going to soon be leaving the department of justice. They didnt give an exact timeline, but they said it would sooner than later. He hasnt yet. Hes still an employee of the department of justice. And as long as he remains there, its much easier for the executive branch, for the president , to try to curtail to prevent him from testifying. Democrats still obviously want to see him there. Nadler, as you said, on friday, suggested it wouldnt be this week as they originally hoped, but there are still talks on going. This is still very much an active hope to have him there. The president has suggested publicly that he would be okay with Robert Mueller testifying. But as weve reporting, privately, hes saying something very differently. And eventually, he did shifted his tone publicly as well. Hes afraid of what that spectacle will look like. He remembers. Hes told people around him, he remembers how the media basically stopped when Michael Cohen went before congress. And it was days worth of coverage, very damaging and embarrassing for the president. It upstaged a summit with kim jongun in vietnam at the time. Right. It sure did. And he thinks with mueller, someone who has been, in the president s belief, unfairly lionized for years, in the media, that when mueller gets before congress, even though mueller is an institutionalist, seems unlikely to really turn a flame thrower to the department of justice, but the president is still concerned that if hes there and commands the nations and worlds attention that nothing good of that will come for the president. And his political future, his prelim standing has always been his paramount concern more than the due process of law and investigation. But my question revolves around oversight and the ability to actually have oversight. Can the president keep mueller from testifying . He has theres he has to this point, we have seen him invoke executive privilege and taken steps to prevent other witnesses from testifying. Don mcgahn included. If mueller is no longer an employee of the department of justice, that gets trickier. He would have more of the ability to say, i want to do this. There would be negotiations. And i think, also, of course, the president , if he flatout says to bob mueller, you cant testify, that risks political blowback there, too. Mueller is still someone who, you know, a number of republicans, as much as this president and people around him have tried to diminish and vilify that investigation, there are still a lot of republicans who hold bob mueller in high regard, of course. A career official whos done so much for this country. And i think if the president were to flatout block him from testifying, you might this might be a rare moment where his fellow republicans stand up to him. Well, that would be something. Dr. Jeffrey sachs, reverend al sharpton, zainab salby, thank you all for being on the show this morning. And up next, joe biden isnt just leading in South Carolina, hes ahead by 31 points. Well run through those numbers and what they mean for the other two dozen democrats running for the white house. Plus, the president lashes out at former White House Counsel Don Mcgahn following reports that trump asked mcgahn to publicly state that he did not obstruct justice. But mcgahn refused. But first, lets go right to bill karins with a check on the forecast. Bill . Another ugly day, mika. Good morning, everyone. This picture shows you all you need if the white house, an American Flag stuck to the pole. You can see other flags in the monument blowing around. We have light rain in and around washington, d. C. , moving up towards philadelphia. And then almost into new york city. Its just going to be a soggy i95 forecast all day long with the heaviest rain this afternoon. And its wet all the way back to western new york. Weve got rain on and off through indiana and ohio. So the airport delay problems today, the worst of it, philadelphia, new york city, especially this afternoon, a brief period of probably some heavy rain, gusty winds. And that should cause some delays. Hope flip not too many cancellations. And heres the timing of that. By noon today, this yellow and red, kind of some downpours and heavy rain, eastern pennsylvania, over the top of baltimore, then it goes to philadelphia, new york city by 6 00 p. M. , driving home in that, in countnnecticut, and its goi to snow tonight in the mountains of New Hampshire, vermont, and maine. Theyll get upwards of maybe 3 to 6 inches of snow. You worry about some downed trees and some power lines with that. Its above 2,000 feet, but thats pretty ugly for the week of may. Theres the rainy day today. After soaking rains this weekend, we finally get to your relief in the south. We need it, too. These rivers will stay high until june. And a little bbttle bit of ligh on the west coast and on friday, a little bit of light rain on the east. But overall, this week looks pretty calm, and improving weather conditions will be the rule of thumb. Mothers day was ugly. Today, not much better in new york city. Cloudy skies, temperatures only in the 50s with on and off rain. Youre watching morning joe, well be right back. N. Youre watching morning joe, well be right back. Some things are out of your control. Like bedhead. Hmmmm. Rubadub ducky. And then. Theres national car rental. At national, im in total control. I can just skip the counter and choose any car in the aisle i like. So i can rent fast without getting a hair out of place. Heeeeey. Hey ah, control. vo go national. Go like a pro. Wat t. Rowe price, hundreds of our experts go beyond the numbers to examine Investment Opportunities firsthand. Like a biotech firm that engineers a patients own cells to fight cancer. This is strategic investing. Because your investments deserve the full story. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. So should the way you bank. Virtual wallet from pnc bank. Just one way pnc is modernizing banking to help make things easier. Pnc bank. Make today the day. Well, take a look at this. A new post in courier poll has joe biden at 46 . Thats up ten points from their poll in february. Senator Bernie Sanders is 31 points behind, at 15 . And then, senator Kamala Harris in third at 10, mayor Pete Buttigieg and senator Elizabeth Warren are tide for fourth at 8. Cory booker and beto orourke dropped six points since the february poll to low single digits. Orourke now tied with andrew yang at 2 . So, adrian, this is we always look at iowa and New Hampshire historically, theyre incredibly important states, but i always feel like the real democratic primary starts in South Carolina, but because thats where you have more black voters, more hispanic voters. Its far more diverse than the 98 white iowa or whatever those percentages are, theyre very high. So this South Carolina poll actually is going to be more reflective of what happens, not only in South Carolina, but beyond. And joe biden and his team have to feel pretty darned good about those numbers. Yeah, youre exactly right, joe. I mean, this poll is huge for joe biden, hes widened his lead, and of course, youve got a field of 18 candidates. I dont think that the entire pool of candidates was pooled for this particular poll, but this is significant for biden. And what it shows and demonstrates is that he does have a lot of support, not only among White Working Class voters, but among africanamericans. And what was particularly surprising to me, also, about this poll is where cory booker is. This is a state that cory booker has to either win or finish in the top two or three for, in order to legitimatize his campaign and go forward to super tuesday. The fact that hes polling around 4 is really surprising to me. You know, hes probably not going to do very well in a state like iowa or New Hampshire, but South Carolina is a state that he has to do very well in. So joe bidens got to be feeling really good today. Its early, but these polls do matter and they do show that institutional baseline support that candidates need to go forward. Yeah, you know, steve rattner, a lot of people love the talk about how these early polls dont matter and it makes them feel special. It makes them feel like, well, its early, yeah, well, you all are just pundits that are involved in a horse blah, blah, blah. Its so tiring and theyre so wrong. But it makes them feel smart. And so im happy when i hear them say that. The fact of the matter is, when you have 45 people running for president and one gip sitti g president and one gip sittuy sit 46 . Bundlers, your friends, people that have been sitting on the sidelines because they dont know who to support are suddenly going, you know what . Maybe i can support joe biden. Maybe he will have a good, clean shot at donald trump. Talk about the mindset of what a poll like this and all these other polls do for bundlers and people that help Fund President ial campaigns. Well, first, from where we all sit, clearly bidens executing a strategy that was very deliberate on his part, which is to get out of the gate strong, to not make any mistakes, and to try to get to exactly to where this kind of a poll shows him being, which is the presumed frontrunner, the kind of presumed nominee, almost, if you will. And thereby draw in the bund hers and all the other people who are on the sidelines. You may have seen yesterday in the Washington Post, a really good story about how many of the obama people are still in the sidelines after what happened with the Clinton Campaign with al gore in 2000, a lot of people are still watching and waiting. I would say its not quite happened in my world. There are literally events from mayor pete and beto. And among my friends that do this, i think theyre quite split. I dont know that many who have yet chosen to sign up for biden and a number of have basically followed kind of the obama playbook of looking for a fresh, new face and another generation. And then the largest, the largest percentage of them are still watching and waiting to see, frankly, if the biden phenomenon is real, because it is still early. It is a meaningful poll. But bidens, we all know, bidens got a lot to prove in terms of his ability to conduct an effective campaign. So theres still a lot of watching and waiting going on in my world. Coming up on morning joe, President Trump once said don mcgahn had a brilliant legal mind and excellent character. Now trump claims to have never been a fan. What the president s new attacks on the former white House Counsel mean for the ongoing investigations on capitol hill. G investigations on capitol hill everyones got to listen to mom. When it comes to reducing the sugar in your familys diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. Were working together to do just that. Bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. Smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. Because we know mom wants whats best. More beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. Balanceus. Org music throughout there was no hesitation, i went straight to ctca. After my mastectomy, it was maddening because i felt part of my identity was being taken away. When youre able to restore what cancers taken away, you see that transformation firsthand knowing that she had options that she could choose, helped restore hope. My team made me feel like a whole person again. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Appointments available now. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. The latest inisnt just a store. Ty its a save more with a new kind of Wireless Network store. Its a look what your wifi can do now store. A get your questions answered by awesome experts store. Its a now theres one store that connects your life like never before store. The xfinity store is here. And its simple, easy, awesome. New reporting over the weekend says that the Trump Administration has been pressing former White House Council don mcgahn to get on message with the president. Officials reportedly asked mcgahn at least twice in the past month to say that he never believed that the president obstructed justice to people, based on the reports, says the New York Times. Lets bring the New York Times reporter, michael schmidt. Michael, tell us about this. The Justice Department gave the president s lawyers a sneak peek at the mueller report. They went in and read it and they said, man, theres a lot of obstruction in here, but theres nothing in here from don mcgahn that says that mcgahn never thought that any of this stuff was actually breaking the law. So before the report comes out, they go to mcgahns lawyer and they say, hey, would you guys consider putting out this statement after the report came out . So this shows the advantage that the white house had coming into the end of the investigation, where theyre sort of lining up surrogates, in this case, the president s former white House Counsel, the star witness in the report, to come out and help them push back on the accusations. Now, mcgahn looked at the report and realized that it may look a little funny for him to say that he didnt think there was obstruction of justice. He also saw in the report that the president said some notverynice things about him and he didnt go along with it. Did not go along with it. Tell us about rudys aported trip to ukraine. I guess the Trump Campaign decided that instead of waiting for Foreign Countries to come in and influence president ial campaigns, they were going to beat him to it and start sending the president surrogates to ukraine. But that plan actually had to be aborted. Tell us why . Yeah, as my colleague, ken vogel reported over the weekend, giuliani had planned to go there on sort of a factfinding mi in mission to find out more about how the damaging information about the Trump Campaign came out. How you could get more information pushed to the government there Going Forward to the 2020 election. And giuliani looking at the blowback from it, cancels his trip. But it sort of brings back and raises all of these questions about why is it that the president s personal lawyer is seeking out help in an investigation and Going Forward in a campaign, you know, to get a Foreign Government on their side. It seems like the same issues that we were looking at in the 2016 campaign. And then the president at the end of last week saying in an interview with politico, that he thought it was appropriate for him to bring up the issue of investigating, you know, the clintons in connection with this. And that raising an entirely new set of issues about the president s role in trying to get the Justice Department to look at his political enemies. In a sort of overlooked section of the report, and one that i dont think has gotten a ton of attention, the president tried on three occasions to get Jeff Sessions to investigate Hillary Clinton. And, you know, with everything that came out in the report, not something that a lot of folks picked up on, but the president was Holding Session job over his head and trying to get him to prosecute clinton. And Jonathan Lamir, obviously trying to do the same still with barr. Barr, of course, acted dumb at the hearing, because he didnt want to commit perjury when it certainly would not be hard to believe that donald trump didnt ask him the same thing. I want to talk about Rudy Giuliani, though, and tell me what you know about your reporting here. But first, i want to read clyde habermans tweet from saturday. Great jimmy breslands quote. Jou quote, a small man in search of a balcony. And that search, a small ordinarily man now, in desperate search for a balcony. And making a fool of himself and this is just the latest chapter. What happened . Well, michael is exactly right. I mean, how problematic democrats felt this giuliani trip to ukraine was going to be. And it was on two levels. It was backward looking, yes, to relitigate and reinvestigate the origins of the Mueller Probe and the ties that ukraine could have to clinton. But also Going Forward, look at not just the 2016 opponent, but potential 2020 opponents. Also, this trip was also about joe biden and looking at the connections that bidens son may have had to a Ukrainian Oil and gas company. A company that was run by a former oligarch there. And what role biden may have played, even intervening, because ukraine was sort of part of his portfolio when he was Vice President. And democrats were actively saying that the republicans were just rolling the playbook back aga again. That the Trump Campaign was this time extending their hand in looking for help from a Foreign Government to come up with damaging information about a political opponent. Giuliani himself said that, you know, it was he said it was not illegal, but some might think it was improper, that he was going over there. He told the president that he was going and that the president was excited about the prospect. And only after a days worth or a couple of days worth of blowback, not just from democrats, but from a few republicans as well, who felt this was an inappropriate trip, did giuliani change his mind. And it happened suddenly. I spoke to the former mayor sunday afternoon and he was still hell bent on going, despite the criticism. But by friday night, he told fox news, he no longer was, claiming it was some sort of setup by the new president elect in the ukraine that was lookingi to mae him look bad and therefore make the president look bad himself, so he scuttled the trip. But i think were now, democrats are certainly on high alert, not just for ukraine connection, but for Rudy Giuliani and other trump advisers who may be going overseas again, looking for information from Foreign Governments to help the american president. Coming up on morning joe, is joe bidens electability argument how democrats lose elections . A new piece in vanity fair explores that point and well bring in the author, straight ahead. Morning joe is back in a moment. Staying at hampton for a work trip. Oh no. Your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. Not quite ready to face the day . Thats why were here with free hot breakfast. Book at hampton. Com for our price match guarantee. Hampton by hilton. Book at hampton. Com for if you have moderate toee. Little things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Ready to treat differently with a pill . Otezla. Show more of you. So, every day, we put our latest technology and unrivaled network to work. The United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Woman on phone discover. Hi. Do you have a travel card . Yep. Our miles card. Earn unlimited 1. 5 miles and well match it at the end of your first year. Nice im thinking about a scuba diving trip. Woman ooh gasp or not. You okay . Yeah, no, im good. Earn miles. Well match em at the end of your first year. Yeah, no, im good. alarm beeping welcome to our busy world. Where we all want more energy. But with less carbon footprint. Thats why, at bp, were working to make energy thats cleaner and better. 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If im lucky enough to be your nominee, its hard to believe i wouldnt select one of these extraordinary woman who im running right now or some other extraordinary woman whos running right now. Stacey abrams is someone who comes to mind to me right now. Beto orourke this weekend in New Hampshire talking about Stacey Abrams as a potential running mate. You know, i dont think she appreciates that. Im just going to say, like, that was already talked about, and shes like, im not running for second place. If im going to run, im going to run for first place. Anyhow, were back with Jonathan Lamir and Michael Steele. And joining us now, columnist for the Washington Post, Karen Tumulty and host of snapchats good luck america and vanity fair contributor, peter hanby. Peters latest piece for the magazine is entitled this is do or die. Joe bidens electability argument is how democrats lose elections. And in it, he writes, biden is popular and famous among democrats, but primary voters are open to Something Different and want to hear more about the other candidates. Biden can still win and should be treated as the frontrunner. But he has nowhere to go but down. Be sure to remember clinton was beating obama by 20 points a month before she finished third in iowa. Electability is only a condition of the moment. Nothing about the term is predictive. It is always subject to change. At this point, four years ago, the least electable person on the planet had not even taken his escalator ride down to the lobby of trump tower. Today, he is president of the United States. So if biden can surf this moment all the way to november 2020, well, it will be an enormous feat. Peter, i think thats a great point. You look at these numbers, and biden is clearly the frontrunner. There are those people who say, i dont look at polls this early, but its clear. And he does have nowhere to go but down. Weve seen surges out of nowhere before, havent we . We absolutely have. I mean, i think a lot of first of all, it should be said that biden can absolutely still win. He is the frontrunner. You were just talking about that South Carolina poll, which shows a really sturdy lead. All of these conversations ability electabilitybogged down in two things, one, a kind of prediction game, like, who can best win next year when we dont even know what the issue set is going to be. When the campaign hasnt really been litigated yet in debates and paid media. It just hasnt really started yet. Or they get bogged down in fights over identity, sexism, race, you know, what joe referred to earlier on the show as blue check marc twitter. They like to fight about those things. But we only have to look to recent history to see that electability arguments are kind of a suckers game for democrats, because democrats have this bad habit of just wanting to fall in love, carter, obama, clinton. These candidates who are able to sort of represent clear breaks from the past, to marshal support through like big messages, biography, to really connect and move people are the ones who not only win primaries, but win general elections. And, you know, the 08 example is the reason i wrote this piece. I remember, and you guys were out on that campaign trail all the time, john edwards and Hillary Clinton were making the argument that we can win next year. And it just really fell flat, because you had this historymaking person who was telling a story and represented change. And thats what democrats kind of want. Looking at joe biden, its funny, hes not necessarily a head candidate, hes all visceral, hes irish, hes the ultimate heart guy, but his allies and surrogates are making the argument that he can win. And voters dont think tactically or strategically, they just want to connect with you on the issues, your values, and your biography. I have an appreciation for the bibidens, because when you talk to them, you literally do not think that they have spent time in washington, in a good way. Kind of a freshness and they havent let it get to them, that bubble. And most people, and i know for a fact the obamas were like, get us out of here. They couldnt leave soon enough. And they want to go back so thats just so admirable. But what is happening with, for example, beto . That everybody was so thinks this is guy. Hes at the bottom ive been thinking about this the last few days. I was with mayor pete, whos been on your show a bunch i get him, yeah. Yeah, i know. Yeah. Hes you know, its funny. Barney frank called me last week and barney frank, i was talking to him about this, it feels like in the context of this democratic primary, theres only so much room for the buzzy young white guy. You had beto come along, beto sort of captured that energy and excitement early on. Hes stumbled a bit when he went to iowa without a clear message and a clear plan to answer that question, why are you running for president . And right now, like, looking at field, i can only say that about five people. Bernie, warren, who are both running on progressive economic issues, andrew yang is running on universal basic income, and Pete Buttigieg is running on a generational message. Everyone else in the field has not been able to answer that question, why are you running for president in a very clear way. Orourke hasnt really done that and its happened at the same time as buttigieg has come along and sound to many people as more cerebral, more academic, hes telling a story about who he is and what he represents. His identity, his sexuality is a big part of that. I was with him in West Hollywood at the abby, a very famous gay bar in West Hollywood last thursday at a small donor event. He was mobbed. He was mobbed. And you can you just feel that sort of like passion at a Grassroots Level about him and you also see him doing tons and tons of media, as you guys have talked about. Thats really helping carry him, too. Let me go to Karen Tumulty right now. First of all, with Pete Buttigieg, i just cant stand how much i love his response to donald trump comparing him to the mad magazine character, which ive been corrected on twitter, it still exists. I loved mad magazine when i was growing up. It was kind of crazy. But he really was he had a way to flick trump off his shoulder that i havent seen a candidate do. So that was a good sign. But what do you think is going on with beto . Because there was i mean, was it a media madeup thing. Because everyone had him as the Second Coming and hes just not polling. Hes at the bottom of the list. I think peter nails hit. He comes into the race as sort of as an idea, as a feeling, but not as a rationale for running. You i dont even know what the idea or the feeling is. Its just beto. No, i dont want to feel good, i want someone who can do this and beat trump. But the campaign now, karen, is regrouping, and hes Going National and hes going to like actually talk about issues, because the only issue he has talked about is climate change. This is rookie stuff. And also, im with you on the Stacey Abrams suggestion. He is now the second candidate to float her as a potential running mate, the first being preannouncement joe biden. And it is, its insulting to Stacey Abrams for white guys, essentially, to get up there and say they want to make her their human shield, you know, against a party that is looking for some kind of diversity. It really is insulting to Stacey Abrams. And its amazing to me that a second candidate would do that. Yeah, i know, crazy. Its also interesting, if you look at that South Carolina poll that came out today, Stacey Abrams is not only registering in the topline horse race results, if you dig in there and say, who are you excited about . Democrats in South Carolina are putting Stacey Abrams up there with buttigieg, with booker, with harris, with bernie, with biden. Like, people are payi ining attention to her. I get that georgias right next to South Carolina and thats why shes getting a lot of attention, but she has credibility to stand on her own legs without these guys floating her as a running mate. In a field this crowded, its obviously hard to break through. And since the former Vice President entered the race and has obviously dominated some of the Media Coverage and the polls, were seeing a few candidates have had individual moments. Mayor Pete Buttigieg still is buzzy. Weve seen senator warren, as weve discussed earlier in the show, you know, gain some traction with some of these policy proposals. And she seems to be her poll numbers have also ticked upward while so many others are going down. Peter, i want to put to you t, e question of this. How do some of the other established candidates, the senators, cory booker, senator klobuchar, but in particular, senator harris, who i know when she was entered the race and she had a very splashy introduction. She was immediately talked about as being perhaps the very, very top tier of candidates, she seems to have gone quooiet. We havent heard that much from her. But what is dwoigoing to be her rationale for her candidacy . How does she break through . On your second point real quick, and joe and steve were talking about this earlier, this Second Quarter, i mean, we paid attention to fundraiser numbers like a few weeks ago. The Second Quarter is going to be very, very, very telling in terms of whos got horsepower, in terms of money in this campaign, and who doesnt. And i think with senator harris, one reason she is a little bit quiet right now is that shes doing a ton of fundraising. I think that shes going to have to have a Strong Quarter and probably will. I think buttigieg is really going to take off this quarter. I would be shocked if he doesnt double his fundraising numbers or more this quarter. I think shes laying low and understanding that this is a long game. You know, the New York Times, jonathan martin, and, you know, wrote about it this weekend, about kamala kind of resetting her campaign. I think she understands that a lot of voters out there, you know, are going to have to identify with her on her own terms and not these candidates cant just be racing to the left to appease twitter. They have to come up with their own messages that align with their own identities can their own brands. And you know, Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren are in the top tier. They have stay power. I do think after the Second Quarter of fundraising numbers come out, youre going to see if the amy klobuchars, if the, you know, kirsten gillibrands, Julian Castros of the world have the gas to go all the way. If you look again at the South Carolina poll, there are so many telling nuggets in there. Over half of South Carolina voters have not even heard of these people, these senators that we just mentioned. But you do have Kamala Harris, beto orourke, Pete Buttigieg, cory booker, joe biden right there in the top tier and that feels like the top slice of the democratic field and its going to be difficult to see that changing. But one thing to remember about South Carolina, going to the year 2008 example, South Carolina is very, very much influenced by the results of iowa and New Hampshire. And it really was not until barack obama could win a lily white state like iowa that africanamerican voters in South Carolina could finally bring themselves to believe that this guy could go all the way. So, that is also there are going to be so much so many sort of things bouncing around between iowa and South Carolina that these polls that makes them even harder to figure out now. Yeah, i just want to jump on that last part real quick. A couple of things. One, if you are doing a reboot or a reintroduction or reset at this stage in your campaign, that gives you a very good indication of how difficult the track is going to be for that particular candidate. Two, when youre looking at the money, the mioney is going to b there for a lot of people, but if you can meet the threshold set by the democrats to get on that stage in june, thats your moment. Thats what all of these candidates are looking for. And then the resets, the real resets begin when it comes to what im going to do between june and august, so that i can be in play from september into next february. So theres a lot of roadway left for these candidates. I wouldnt take any of them tak the board just yet. Interesting. Peter, thank you. Appreciate you being on this morning. Karen as well. Coming up our next guest has spent his life studying the mechanics of how economies work and says the recent College Admissions scandal is just the latest example of why capitalism needs to be overhauled. Why the American Dream may be in jeopardy. And as we go to break an early look at how the markets are shaping up this morning. Right now dow futures plunging nearly 500 points. Were keeping an eye on that. Thats happening because of china and morning joe is coming right back. Really . [horn honks] man this is what i feel like when i wear regular shoes, cramped and uncomfortable. We can arrange a little upgrade. 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Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Want more proof . Ask your dermatologist about humira. This is my body of proof. Breaking news. China is raising tariffs on 60 billion worth of American Goods starting on june 1st. That is in retaliation for the u. S. Decision to hike duties on chinese products. The dow jones is down over 500 points. About 40 minutes before trading kicks off on wall street. Joining us now someone who spent his life studying the mechanics of how economies and markets work. Hes one of the most successful investors of all time. And author of principles. Founder, cochairman, cochief Investment Officer of the largest and most successful hedge fund, bridge Water Associates ray dalio. Good to have you on the show. Good to be here. Thank you for being with us. I spent a lot of time in new canaan, and everybody up there so appreciates all youve done in that area, especially in education. But this is really personal for you. And in the book you talk about the way our economy is going, and the disparity between the richest and the poorest. You do focus on how it impacts education, and impacts the poor. Talk about that. Well, maybe i start at the biggest picture level. I think there are four things that drive our living standards, our economy, how we are. Thats first of all productivity, how we learn over a period of time, and with that amount of learning we evolve. But there are cycles around that. Theres a shortterm debt cycle. You have a recession. Central bank stimyoulative and you expand. And a longterm debt cycle, and that, when you have limitations of central bank ability to ease, when you hit zero Interest Rates, then the game changes and then theres a political cycle. The most important aspect of that is the wealth gap. So for me, i grew up living the American Dream. I was able. I had parents who cared for me. I was able to go to a public school. I was in a position where i knew what that American Dream was, and you could see the disparity. You know. You live in connecticut. My wife works in education incu worst schools, public schools, the worst, i wouldnt say the most challenged. You can see how fair, unfair it is that there is this disparity in terms of resources. The average person in the top 40 spends about five times as much money on education as those in the bottom 60 , the majority of people. So theres a big disparity. History has shown over and over again that that wealth gap and that opportunity gap creates a conflict in much the same way as were seeing lived out now. So id like to take a historical perspective. The picture looks a lot to me like the 1930s. Well, and a former fed chairman, Alan Greenspan said several years ago income disparity would perhaps be the greatest challenge to american capitalism. If thats the case, it sounds like youre concerned about it as well, where do we go from here . How does capitalism, how do we reform capitalism . I think the first thing is do we agree that everything needs to refo reform, that capitalism needs to be renovated and the outcomes in terms of the disparity, the opportunity disparity needs to be dealt with . I think if we can do that, then i think it needs to be done together in a bipartisan way. I think were in a situation where people on the ground know the situations very well. I think it has to be bipartisan. I think it needs leadership from the top. I would say that there are four things that need to be done. The first is to recognize this is a problem and its not delivering the same benefit most americans need. The second is to do it in a bipartisan way. Third is to be able to do that with metrics and a group of people that draws together those on the ground and who understand that. Then i think it has to be done skillfully. I think those are the things that have to be done. Let me ask you about the breaking news, chinas retaliatory tariffs. You know the markets. The markets are not probably going to receive this with open arms. You where do you see this . The president has bet so big on the stock market and the economy as a key to his reelection. Where do you see this going . Do you see the escalation with china for months ahead . Id like to step back and look at the big picture related to that. There is a difference in the approaches to life. We are now in a new world. Very much like the 30s in which there is a rising power challenging an existing power economically. Its a small world with then that sort of conflict. Theres a different approach to life in china. It is more confusion. It is more top down. It is and so where the nub is is how they are going to be with each other. In other words, in a confusion top down sort of way, that affects how they run their businesses. One of the leaders in china explained to me that the United States is a country of individualis individualists, and its individual lichl, and its through that we we have a bottom um leadership. That cultural difference and identity difference is a very important difference that gets carried over in all forms of competition. Competition is not just trade. This is way beyond trade. This is competition for marketplaces. This is economic competition, and could be military competition. So the trade negotiation that the problems that were having are a part of that, but its going to extend. So there are four main things that are happening that are like the 1930s that id like to just take a minute and draw your attention to. First, we have a big income gap. That causes conflict between thes have and have notes. The left and the right politics. Number two is that were in a situation in this which we have less effective monetary policies because Interest Rates are close to zero and Monetary Policy from quantitative easing doesnt work. If you have a downturn, thats going to be a problem. Thats going to be a social and political problem. How we are with each other is going to drive it. Thats not only internally politics. But thats externally politics, and so i would say studying history and understanding what the 30s was like, i think would be key. The book is principles. Ray, thank you very much, and we have run up against the next hour. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi, there. Im Stephanie Ruhle with a lot